Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! - Best of Not My Job Feb2020

Episode Date: February 22, 2020

This week we enjoy past chats with Sean Doolittle, Nalini Nadkarni, Tim Kaine, and Gloria Steinem. And we share some clips that haven't been aired before.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. When I'm president, we'll meet in the old Bill office. I'm Bill Curtis. And here is your host at the Chase Bank Auditorium in Chicago, Peter Segal. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much. It is President's Day week, the most beloved holiday of the year when we take the whole week to march in parades, dress up as our favorite presidents, and the kids go house to house to yell bribe or pardon. In addition to this traditional President's Day celebration

of trimming the old executive bush, we're also celebrating other parts of our past, mainly the past of this show. Let's start with one of our favorite guests of the last year, a guy who gets to hang out with presidents for most of the year when they race around Nationals Park in Washington. Sean Doolittle is a relief pitcher for the world champion Washington Nationals,

and he joined us right after they won it all in the fall of 2019. And now the game where we invite on our heroes and make them do something pointedly non-heroic. Sean Doolittle is a relief pitcher for the Washington Nationals, and this season he saved game one of the World Series to start his team toward

a seven-game victory over the Houston Astros, naturally. He has chosen to celebrate that historic win by doing something even more challenging, talking to an NPR audience about sports. Sean Doolittle, welcome to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

Thank you very much for having me. You should have played his walk-in music. Yeah. What is your walk-in music? My walk-in music is a song by Metallica called For Whom the Bell Tolls. Nice. Now, I'm just going to say, looking back in the season, you guys were not favorites to win the World Series early on.

No, we weren't. No. Yeah. And did you guys know in your heart that you actually could go all the way or did you? Yeah, we did. There's a funny thing about playoff baseball specifically, where it's so important that you take the momentum that you have and you're able to capitalize on it and make the most of it. And we caught a huge break. I don't know if anybody saw in the wildcard game where a ball took a really funny hop against Milwaukee in the eighth inning and three runs scored for us. We took the lead. And from then on, it kind of felt like the baseball gods, they finally might have our back.

You guys seem to really like each other, which added to the appeal of your team. Is that in fact true? Yeah, it is. It really is. And it's every once in a while in baseball, you get a group of guys that comes together and you just click. Team chemistry is one of the last things in baseball that we have yet to quantify. We keep track of everything, but we just connected. It took a little while for us to figure things out in the beginning part of the season. We have yet to quantify. We keep track of everything, but we just connected. It took a little while for us to figure things out in the beginning part of the season. We had the second worst record in the National League at the end of May.

And I think it was because we genuinely liked each other that we didn't rip each other's heads off in June or July. We were able to right the ship and stay together and go all the way. And did you guys ever get as annoyed with the whole baby shark thing as the rest of the world did? We had fun with it, man. We had a lot of those things throughout. What was the baby shark thing?

So one of our outfielders, his name was Gerardo Parra, he changed his intro song that played when he came up to the bat to the Baby Shark theme song and it was something that he did to kind of change his luck Sean you may need to just sing a little for Paula right now yeah I don't know the Baby Shark theme song do you guys know the Baby Shark theme?

you want to lead them then can you do it? can we do it? alright to lead them, man. Can you do it? Can we do it? Yeah. Alright. Go for it. Baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo baby shark, doo doo doo doo doo doo baby shark. There you go. And then it goes on from there.

It goes on. It goes on and on. And it was his two-year-old daughter's favorite song. He did it to kind of change his luck and the Nationals fans, they totally embraced it. And every time he came to bat... Did that make you feel bad

about your Metallica song? Metallica should cover Baby Shark. I would love to hear that. You just said something that I'm actually very curious about. You said that he changed his walk-up song to Baby Shark to change his luck. Yeah. And I've always read that baseball players are incredibly superstitious.

Yeah. And is this true? Like, do you do things just to make sure you'll win? Like, you know, Wade Boggs always ate chicken and so on and so forth. Over the course of my career, I've tried to get away from that. And at times, that's almost become its own superstition. Like, I'll do the opposite just so I don't fall into making myself crazy over over some superstitions but I think like in the World Series when we came back to Houston for games six and seven a lot of us went back and

and tried to remember or in some of our cases looked on social media to see what clothes we wore to the ballpark. Really? Because we won... Don't you have uniforms? We won... Well, you don't... Again, not a sports fan. Just be patient.

So they have our uniforms at the field for us. Because those are chosen ahead of time, Sean. Right. They have to tell us what to wear. Every night when you guys got dressed, you went, I'm wearing that. You're wearing that? What outfit are we going to wear tomorrow?

That was a whole other thing. Baseball kit. Our navy blue jerseys became good luck for us in the playoffs. We have several different uniform combinations. But in game six and seven, when the series went back to Houston, we all went back to make sure that we wore

the same stuff to the stadium. Really? Yeah. To try to bring ourselves luck. Because at that point, you really don't want to leave anything to chance. No. You got to pull out all the stops just in case. You don't want to be sitting there

after you've lost games out of the World Series and you're talking to one of your teammates, so Rendon, you had to change your shirt. Yeah. Yeah. Say you had broken your ankle at the sixth game and the team won.

Would you have broken your other ankle in order to get the luck for the seventh game? I mean, what kind of sacrifices were you willing to make for the team? Well, you know, we probably would have seen how Game 7 was going. I want to ask you about your social media because I follow you on Twitter. You're Sean,

what is it, Obi-Sean? Obi-Sean Kenobi, yeah. See, that's exactly the kind of player I thought you were. Yeah. So are you in fact

a big Star Wars fan? I am a big Star Wars fan, yeah. Have you thought maybe you can get a cameo like Noah Syndergaard did in Game of Thrones? I thought about it, and then, you know, after the World Series, the PR people are like,

hey, you know, let us know if there's anything you want to do. And I was like, oh, I want to go to the premiere. And like a week later, they were like, all right, how about Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me? Well, Sean Doolittle, it is a delight to talk to you, but we've invited you here to play a game we're calling... Now that's what I call a save. You save baseball games, but what does that mean?

Was the game in a well? Was it lost at sea? We're going to ask you three questions about real-world saves. Get two right and you win for one of our listeners. Bill, who is Sean Doolittle playing for? Tanya Simone from Mobile, Alabama. All right. Your first question.

After firefighters rescued a group of his piglets who were caught in a barn fire, a farmer in the U.K. did what to express his thanks to the fireman? A, wove the message, some piglets, into his spider web. B, brought the piglets to the into his spider web. B. Brought the piglets to the firehouse and released them there. Or C.

He sent the firefighter sausages made out of the piglets they had saved. Oh no. Oh no. I hope B. You hope B that he just released

the piglets into the firehouse that they're yours. Yeah. No, it was C. No way. No. And he got a lot of criticism for this. Really?

And the farmer said, and I quote him, this is what we do. This is not an animal sanctuary. I mean, that's why they raise the pigs, to make them into sausages. A little better. All right, next question why they raise the pigs, to make them into sausages. A little better. All right, next question. You have two more chances here. In 2012, firefighters and first responders rushed to a building in China where a woman was on the ledge, apparently threatening to jump, only to find out what? A, the woman was actually Tom Cruise filming a scene for Mission Impossible 5. B, she was sitting outside a neighbor's apartment so she could steal her Wi-Fi signal.

Or C, the woman was just a very realistic gargoyle. I'm going to go with B. You're right. It was B. She was just trying to steal the Wi-Fi signal. All right, last question. If you get this right, you win. Firefighters are always ready to rescue a cat in a tree,

but that's not all they've been asked to rescue. One British fire crew once had to extract what from a tree? A, a hundred cats, B, a cow, or C, a woman who insisted she was a cat? I'm going to go with B again. The cow? Yeah.

You're right. Yes. The cow had fallen down an embankment and ended up in the branches of a tree at the bottom. It happens. It happens. I bet that cow was so embarrassed. The cow was fine, and then we presume made into hamburgers.

We don't know. Oh, geez. I know. Bill, how did Sean Doolittle do on our quiz? Two strikes out of three possibles. That means you have won the World Series. Congratulations! Sean Doolittle is a pitcher for the World Series,

winning Washington Nationals, and does work with the Smile Foundation. More information can be found at smyal.org. Sean Doolittle, what a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. As we all know, there is nothing more presidential than an insane rant, and our insane ranter-in-chief is Paula Poundstone. Here's a never-before-heard question we posed to Paula,

and she instinctually knew the answer. Paula, according to a new study, most adults are generally too tired to do what? Anything! That is exactly right! Whoa, yeah! A British survey of 2,000 people showed most adults are too exhausted to do anything.

Cook, socialize, come up with a funny third example. Many of the participants reported canceling dates because they, quote, couldn't bring themselves to leave the house. I hear you, 2,000 British people. There are times I just don't eat. Really? Yeah, because... I know, you're looking at don't eat really? this is too exhausting I know you're looking at me going really

yeah you could look a little less surprised Mr. Shiggles the first thing Paula told me when I saw her today was like

I just ate two three musketeers bars yes because they were easy to acquire not to mention the preparation is so simple

did I tell you I ate the wrapper? When we come back, an Iowa bureaucrat loses his job and a treetop biologist pushes around the Mattel toy company. We'll be back in a minute with more Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR. The following message comes from our sponsor, Chipotle. April Wilson, hog farmer for a Chipotle pork supplier, reflects on how her family has seen the number of family farms decreasing. My dad talks about getting on the bus and there were 15 kids that got on the bus within four miles.

And now there's maybe five kids that get on the bus in that same four miles. Like it's just amazing to see the changes. To learn more about how Chipotle is working to reinvigorate farming, go to chipotle.com slash farmers. From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Chase Bank Auditorium in Chicago, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thanks, everybody. So we're celebrating President's Day week the traditional way by wallowing in the recent past. In July of last year, there was a shakeup in the Iowa Department of Human Services. We decided to ask one of you

if you could figure out what happened. Hi, you are on Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Hello, this is Jeremy Sims in Whittier, North Carolina. Whittier, North Carolina? I don't know where that is. What's Whittier like? Close to the Smoky Mountains National Park in Cherokee. And what do you do there?

I'm a wine rep and a musician. You're a wine rep? What's the wine scene like in North Carolina? It's good in the summertime when it's tourist season. Right. And speaking of which, you know, I wish NPR and National Geographic and all you guys with your wine clubs to stay in your lane. Really?

Eat the wine of the professionals. Wait, is there NPR wine? You didn't know about the NPR wine club? Like, that's so... Weekend edition Cabernet. Oh, my God. Morning edition wine sounds so sad. Yes.

NPR wine. It's very dry, but balanced. Jeremy, it's very nice to have you with us. You're going to play our game in which you must try to tell truth from fiction. Bill, what is Jeremy's topic? Director of the Iowa Department of Human Services, you're fired. Iowa, the state where New York Mayor Bill de Blasio lives, just fired the 66-year-old director of its Department of Human Services.

Why? Our panelists are going to tell you. But only one of them is telling the truth. Pick that one, and you'll win our prize, the weight-waiter of your choice on your voicemail. Ready to play? I'm ready. Let's first hear from Maeve Higgins. It's not where you've been, it's where you're at. A cool saying, but not one that applies to Jerry Foxhoven,

the director of the Iowa Department of Human Services, who was recently asked to resign from his post. The shocking reason for his resignation is only becoming clear now. He does not live in Iowa, nor, it turns out, has he ever even been there. It began when Mr. Foxhoven was at a meeting in D.C. and referred to Iowa as that lovely place by the sea. When Jiminy Limpet, an Iowa housing official, heard his colleague saying that, he quizzed him, asking what their state was famous for. Mr. Foxhoven replied in a shaky voice,

Well, you know Iowa, the Lone Star State. How about those Iowa Buggies? Next year we'll win all of the football games. That's when the newspapers picked up on it. One reporter reached Mr. Foxhoven on the phone and asked him some basic questions that anybody who lives in Iowa should know. In response to the question,

where is Sioux City? He answered, I haven't seen Sioux in years. What a great girl. Now that he's been fired, his former employees are connecting the dots. When it came to having team meetings, he would always video conference in, even when the meeting was happening just down the hall from his office.

Contacted by reporters, some staff mentioned seeing a surfboard in the background and noting that in hindsight it was unlikely he was using it to surf on cornfields. it was unlikely he was using it to surf on cornfields. Jerry Foxhoven's problem, he had never actually been to Iowa. Your next story of a pink slip comes from Mo Rocca. Until June 17th, 66-year-old Jerry Foxhoven was Iowa's Director of Human Services. That was the day after he sent an email to 4,300 agency employees praising the music of the late rapper Tupac Shakur. Now, Foxhoven, formerly known as the notorious DHS

director, isn't just a fan of Tupac Shakur. He was hosting weekly Tupac Fridays to play his music in the office. For his own birthday, Foxhoven served Tupac-themed cookies, including one decorated with the words Thug Life. During his two years, he sent 352 Pac-themed emails to employees. When Governor Kim Reynolds asked him to resign, it was one week after Foxhoven sent an agency-wide email reminding employees to mark Tupac's birthday by playing one of his songs. Now, lest anyone think that a 66-year-old Iowan loving rap is funny, bear in mind that the very first rap was heard in the opening of the greatest American musical which was set in Iowa, The Music Man. Cash for the fancy goods.

Cash for the soft goods. Cash for the noggins and the pickings and the frickins. Cash for the hogshead cask and demi-john. Cash for the crackers and the pickles

and the fly papers. What do you talk? What do you talk? What do you talk? What do you talk? You can talk. You can talk. You can bicker.

You can talk. You can bicker, bicker, bicker. You can talk all you want. But it's different than it was. No, it ain't. No, it ain't. But you gotta know the territory. Oh! can talk all you want, but it's different than it was. No, it ain't. No, it ain't. But you've got to know the territory.

Jerry Foxhoven fired from his job in the Iowa State government because, apparently, of his overly enthusiastic appreciation of Tupac Shakur. Your last story of a dishonorable discharge comes from Alonzo Bowden. Jerry Foxhoven loves Iowa. He loves the state cities and towns, the fields, the highways. He loves Iowa's humans and he loves providing them with services, which is good because he's the Iowa State Director of Human Services.

But there was one problem. Jerry Foxhoven hates corn. It started with a Facebook page he called Corn is the Devil's Grain. Jerry posted all the reasons he hates corn. It gets caught in your teeth. It's hard to digest. Corn on the cob is a sloppy mess on your fingers. The page grew in popularity with other haters chiming in. An unpopped popcorn cracked my tooth. If I wanted to know what I ate the night before, I'd keep a diary. It even got political with attacks on ethanol fuel subsidies or the corn lobby's influences on Congress. The problem with this is Facebook is public, and when corn farmers saw the page, they went straight to the governor. You can't be governor at a corn state and have a senior appointee hate corn.

Rebecca Shields, a reporter from the Iowa Gazette, asked Voxhoven why the hatred of corn. Voxhoven said he ate corn every day as a child and just got so sick of it, he thought it would be funny to attack it. After the supporters joined his page, it became a real thing and it spun out of his control. He sighed, I guess in the end, corn won. All right. There really is a guy named Jerry Foxhoven. He really is 66 years old and he really was until this week, the head of human services for the state of Iowa.

Why was he fired? Was it because from Maeve he didn't actually live in or had ever been to Iowa? From Mo Rocca, his overt and perhaps over-enthusiasm for the rapper Tupac Shakur? Or from Alonzo, he just hated corn too much. Which of these are the real reasons, we believe, for his termination? It has to be Mo Rocca's story. You're going to go with Mo Rocca's story of his enthusiasm for Tupac Shakur? I love the way he just said my name.

Yeah, dude. All right, you picked his. Now, it's amazing because we were able to get in touch with the gentleman in question himself. My favorite song by Tupac. Maybe I should change it to something else. That was Jerry Foxoven. He loves Tupac Shakur almost as much as he used to love Iowa State bureaucracy.

Congratulations, you got it right. Mo was telling the truth, including about Meredith Wilson inventing hip-hop. So you have won our prize, the voice of your choice in your voicemail. Congratulations. All right, thank you. Well done.

Thanks so much for playing. In the fall of last year, we reached a milestone, our 1,000th show. It's amazing we ever made it this far. It feels like it's just been 970 or so. To mark the occasion, we went back to Salt Lake City, where we did our first ever show in front of a live audience. And there, we talked to a remarkable woman, a professor of biology at the University of Utah. Nalini Nedkarni invented the entire field of treetop biology.

Peter asked her if people thought she was crazy when she first suggested climbing to the tops of trees. Well, it was like that. You know, scientists are supposed to discover the unknown. And I am a scientist. I mean, I'm really a scientist. I'm a geek. I mean, in high school, I was a member of the Latin Scrabble Club. That's how much of a geek I am. That's geeky even for NPR.

Yes, it is. That's pretty geeky. I'm an NPR NPR. So you were a nerd. You were studying science. Fine. But how did you get interested in the tree canopy? So when we ascend into the canopy,

we really have access to a completely different world up there. It's a different microclimate, there's more sunlight, more variations in relative humidity, and a whole panoply of plants and animals that have adapted to live up there. And when you were the first scientist to actually go up there, did you find all these unique animals going, damn it, she found us? Actually, what I did, what does happen sometimes is that you really make observations of animals that you can't make on the forest floor. For example, sometimes if you sit up there very

quietly, you see this white form coming towards your side and suddenly you hear in your ear, hello! And let me ask you, you're new. What was your reaction to that? I said that I'm already married. I understand. Oh, and I met your husband. He is also a biologist, and he studies ants.

Yes, he does. Actually, we met because I studied the canopy. We were both graduate students. He came to my field site, and he said to me in just such a charming, quiet voice, he said, you know, I really want to know if there are ants in the canopy. And so I had to teach him how to climb. We fell in love. And when he proposed, he said he would name an ant after me.

Did he? He did. It took him seven years, but he did. What is the ant? The ant's name is Procryptoceros nalini. Oh. You do have a name, nalini, that lends itself easily to species.

I wish that he was like, you know what, I know there's no ants up there. I just was hitting on you. I just wanted to climb a tree with you. I assume that the only way a treetop canopy scientist and an ant scientist could meet would be a tragic fall. No, that didn't happen. It was the other way.

He came up. And is there anything in particular about the ant Nalini species? Well, he calls it an elegant canopy ant. It's slim, it's nimble, and it occurs in the canopy. Oh, that's very nice. I take that as a compliment. He did well with that. Yes.

I have to ask about treetop Barbie. Yes. Which is something that you invented. Yes. So tell me about that. Well, you know, I grew up climbing trees, as I said, in suburban Maryland. And my students and I began thinking, how can we inspire young girls to climb trees and to treasure trees the way I do? And we know that many little girls treasure Barbie for whatever reason.

And so we thought perhaps making a treetop Barbie, making a Barbie that has the clothes that I wear in the canopy and in the field, a little helmet, a little crossbow, a little booklet that tells her... Wait, wait, what? Crossbow? Well, we have to get the ropes up there somehow. So you invented a Barbie that was dressed as a treetop scientist. Yes. And what did the Mattel company have to say about this?

Well, I did call them. I offered them the idea. I thought it would be just fabulous for Mattel to have it sold in Toys R Us and so forth. And they were not interested for some reason. I couldn't understand that. So we just decided, well, in our lab, we can make them ourselves.

We bought used Barbies from Goodwill. We had volunteer seamstresses make the little clothing. There were some challenges, like the big hair wouldn't fit under the little helmets. That's a problem. And her high-heeled feet, you know, their boots wouldn't stay on. Yeah. And we did try ground support Ken, but that turned out not to be a big seller.

Right. Yeah. My husband hates ground support Ken. But I was told that Mattel got mad at you. Well, they did get mad. They actually said, you know, you can't sell these. You know, you're impinging on our brand. And I said, well, I know a number of journalists

who might be interested in knowing that, you know, Mattel is not interested in having a brown woman encourage young girls to go into science and be discoverers. Did you say that while holding your crossbow? But the amazing thing is, just last year,

I got a call from National Geographic, and they have partnered with Mattel, and they have now produced five Explorer Barbies, which is fabulous. And is one of them something like your treetop Barbie? Well, they didn't make treetop Barbie. I think there wasn't a big enough market for canopy explorers, but they did make a one-of-a-kind Barbie that looks like me.

Hey! And so I have this little Barbie. She looks like me about 30 years ago. Sure, wow. But I'll take it. Well, Nalini and Adekani, we've invited you here to play a game we're calling... Join us up in the trees for canapes. Yep, that's what we went with. Oh, no.

You study the tree canopy. We thought we'd ask you about canapes. Those treats usually passed around during cocktail hour before dinner. Answer two questions about canapes, and you'll win our prize. One of our listeners, the voice of their choice on their voicemail. Bill, who is Nalini Nadkarni playing for? Heather Hurley of Washington, D.C. All right, here's your first question.

The origin of the word canapé is surprising. What is it? A, it's named after Claude Canapé, a French cook so legendarily awful people could only eat one bite of his food. B, it comes from the Greek word for mosquito, or C, the original pronunciation is can ape, as in, can an ape eat

that? Is that a B? Alright, I will say B. Yes, it is in fact B. Is that a B? All right. I will say B. Yes, it is a B. Yes! And it's a very bizarre origin. Are you ready?

Here we go. Yeah. The Greek word for mosquito is konopos, which became canopy, which became the word for the screen around a couch to keep out mosquitoes. But in French, that became the word for couch, and somebody thought a piece of toast with some spread on it looked like a couch, so canapé. Wow.

Wow. Language is weird. Yes. Here's your next question. Taste and canapés change over time. Which of these was a real appetizer you might have been offered at a swanky party in the 1960s? Is it A, hot dog nutty fritters,

B, prune nuggets supreme, or C, kidney toast? I'm thinking A. You're thinking A, hot dog nutty fritters? That sounds like that's wrong. I think I'll say C. I really meant to say C. They misled you.

It was A. Oh! Where's my crossbow? But this is okay. You have one more question. If you get this right, you win. Well, what about if you want to throw a big summer party by the pool? Back in the day, again, you might have served which of these delicious hot weather canapes?

A, a single cold potato. B, frozen pork, beans, and ketchup pops. Or C, herring ice cream bites. B, I think. You're going to go with B? I'll go with B. You're right. Yes!

Hooray! Simplest thing in the world. You make pork and beans, pour in ketchup, pour into a popsicle mold, and your friends will never forget it. Bill, how did Nalini do in our quiz? Well, no one has enjoyed winning more than Nalini. It's true. And she did win. Two out of three.

Congratulations. Thank you. Nalini Nankarni is an ecologist and professor at the University of Utah and an advisor for Mattel and National Geographic's new line of science barbies. Nalini Nankarni, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

On top of the world Oh, oh, oh When we come back, a man who was almost vice president reveals a hidden talent, and we talk to a woman who would never hide her genius. We'll be back in a minute with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me from NPR. Support for this podcast and the following message comes from Kohler Intelligent Toilets. With a range of smart features for pampering relaxation and cleanliness, Kohler Intelligent Toilets are designed to provide an elevated experience. Enjoy warm water cleansing, warm air drying, and heated seat control. Surround yourself with ambient lighting and automatic air freshening because every moment

with a Kohler Intelligent Toilet is designed to make you feel your cleanest and most comfortable. Kohler invites you to discover what you've been missing at kohler.com slash intelligent toilets. From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, the NPR News Quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Chase Bank Auditorium in Chicago, Peter Sagal. Thank you, Bill. Thanks, everybody. We are continuing our President's Day week celebration with a man who might have been president if he had won his election and then if Hillary Clinton decided to quit, because frankly, who wants that job?

We interviewed Senator Tim Kaine in his hometown of Richmond, Virginia, not far from the statehouse where he once served as governor. I was surprised to know, because as long as I've known, you've been a central part of Virginia politics, but you're not from around here. I am a Kansas City kid with a wife who's a Virginian who's a much better negotiator than me. So that's why you ended up here. I am a Kansas City kid with a wife who's a Virginian who's a much better negotiator than me. So that's why you ended up here. We loved Richmond from the beginning because my wife knew that what I love is the outdoors. And so I was trying to convince her she would love pro baseball and jazz music. And she was trying to convince me, I don't have to convince you. I know you

love the outdoors and you can canoe in the heart of downtown. And you can mountain bike. And it's just a, this city. You can canoe? Yeah. There's a whitewater rafting right in the heart of downtown. Wow. Yeah.

It's beautiful. Were you one of those people who always wanted to go into politics? Were you delivering your acceptance speeches into mirrors when you were in junior high school? No. I ran for 6th grade class president and lost. I ran for 9th grade class president. Well, that was the electoral college, too. Yeah, that was. Then I had no interest in politics. I was a civil rights lawyer, but, you know,

maybe it's a Richmond thing, but I just got mad at city council one day. I mean, I... Really? Were you one of those people? I know that never happens in Chicago. No, no, no. There's never a complaint in Chicago. You were like, I can't even canoe in this town. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Wow, so you were one of those people who said you couldn't fight City Hall, so you took it over, in a way. Well, in an odd way. Yeah, I'd been practicing law here for 10 years and just ran a race and won a landslide by 92 votes. And I can't say I'm undefeated I can still say I've never lost either the popular vote or the Virginia vote in the election. There you go The executive mansion is very nice

You only get to stay in it for a little period of time right which is you don't get to redecorate Some do and some don't. But it's kind of a museum, so you're not supposed to move stuff around. What's the damage deposit on that? Like first, last? I think it's unlimited and then we exceeded it. Because we had three young kids.

So we were there. And I understand there's like a tradition as you hand over the mansion. What is that tradition? The tradition is when you hand it off the key to your successor, you play a prank on them. I have to ask, what prank was played on you? Well, funny you should have asked that question. I believe this is the er prank.

I don't think it can ever be exceeded. We were giving a tour to the newly elected governor, Bob McDonnell and his wife and his children in 2010. And we told them about the ghost at the mansion. There is a ghost at the mansion that has appeared over the decades. We could tell that some of his children actually were scared by these stories. So we bought a burner phone.

We changed the ring so that it was a woman screaming that got progressively louder. We got a great battery for it, and we put it in a place up in the residence that would be nearly impossible to find. And then about every 10 or 11 days at weird times of the day, we would call it. And we would let it ring and get louder and louder and then we would hang up before anyone answered. And eventually, because there's kind of a network, we started to hear there's some things going on

down at the mansion that people, because we only live two miles away, there's some concerns about phenomenon. The children are so frightened. Yeah, and then we eventually heard from the McDonald family and we laughed about it. It ended up with a lot of the kids all jumping in to one bed together one night when this

thing was going too crazy. So I just don't think that can ever be topped. You know, it's funny because I had a question here about how such a nice guy should succeed in politics. I'm not going to ask you that anymore.

Well, Senator Tim Kaine, it is a delight to talk to you, but we... I've been filibustering to avoid... Oh, no, it was coming. Senator Kaine, we've invited you to play a game we're calling... T. Kaine meet T. Payne. That's right. T. Cain meet T. Payne. That's right.

T. Cain, we're going to ask you three questions about the Grammy and Masked Singer winning musician T. Payne. Answer two out of three right, you'll win our prize. The voice of anyone... I thought it was Thomas Payne. Well, well... Really? Well, the game is called Not My Job, and at least we're not asking you about being vice president.

So give us... All right. Okay. We wouldn't do that. You wouldn't? We'd mention it, but we wouldn't do it. Bill, who is Senator Tim Kaine playing for? Greg Jones of Richmond, Virginia.

He's out there somewhere waiting for you. Greg, if I lose, I could make it up to you because we live near each other. He doesn't get a voicemail, but he gets a huge government contract. How did that happen? All right. Here's your first question. So, T-Pain, the musician, his real name is Fashim Najim, but he adopted T-Pain as his rap name early on. What does T-Pain, the musician, his real name is Fashim Najim, but he adopted T-Pain as his rap name early on. What does T-Pain stand for? A, Thomas Paine, Mr. Name's favorite of the early American intelligentsia.

B, it rhymes with knee pain, something that's bothered him since his days playing lacrosse. Or C, it stands for Tallahassee Pain because that's where he grew up and he really, really did not like it. I'm going with C. You're right. That's exactly right. He did not like Tallahassee, Mr. Nodgin. So you did very well.

Here's your next question. T-Pain has performed everywhere for many decades, but in only one place that he described later on as, quote, weird as hell. What was this venue that was weird as hell? A, in the penguin enclosure at the San Diego Aquarium.

B, entertaining at a rave at the Mormon Tabernacle. Or C, at NPR headquarters. C. You're right. Absolutely. I won't set foot there.

No. No, I'm not going. Den of iniquity. Yeah. T-Pain did a Tiny Desk concert that quite recently was the most downloaded and watched Tiny Desk concert ever. So, there you are.

Wow. There you go. All right, here's your last question. T-Pain, if you know him, and I'm sure you do, is known for having many, many tattoos, including which of these? A, a two-scale portrait of Rachel Maddow's head on the center of his back.

B, a neck tattoo that is just the word tattoo. Or C, on his elbow, the Chinese symbol meaning auto-tune. B. B, you're going to go for the neck tattoo that's just the word tattoo? You're right. Wow. And I knew none of those. That was pretty sharp.

The trifecta. All right, you get no government contract, Greg. You're getting a voicemail. No, seriously, T-Pain gets tattoos like other people get novelty T-shirts. He's just like, that seems fun. Put it on my skin. That's how he rolls. Bill, how did Senator Kaine do in our quiz?

He got the trifecta. All three right. A rare achievement. I hope that makes up for the whole presidential election thing. I mean, you're right. Now, before we let you go, we know that in addition to your many political skills as a leader and organizer and elected official,

you have also some musical skills. Some. Some. Yeah, some. And we are told that you are quite the hand with the harmonica. Yeah? Yes. And we were wondering,

and I'm sure everybody here would be excited if this were the case, am I right? If you, Senator Kane, could honor us with a little, you know, tune. I think I can do it. All right. What do we got? Here we go. T-Cain, ladies and gentlemen. This land is your land, this land is my land, from California to the New York Island. Senator Tim Kaine, everybody!

Finally, in November of last year, we got a chance to talk to a true legend, one of the leading intellectuals of the feminist movement. Except Gloria Steinem didn't agree with me. No, and I don't think I am the leading intellectual. Intellectual movements are, by their nature, huge and circular and mutually supportive. I became whatever it is I am by being a journalist writing about the movement. And there were various places asking me to speak about it.

And I discovered exactly how deep and widespread the needs and also enthusiasms about a movement truly were. Do you ever find that young people today, especially even young women, have a hard time believing how terrible it was when you started out in your particular journey? Yes, they do, and I'm so glad. Really? They just can't believe it?

Yeah. I'm just imagining you with younger women sitting around in a campfire with a flashlight under your chin and going, and when we got married, we didn't just take their last name we had to take their first name too yes yes and we couldn't have our own credit rating our own credit cards our own address we couldn't get a loan i mean we could go on

when and do you yes i do go on but but i think that the purpose of going on is just to show how far we've come and therefore to give everybody faith that we can go even further in the future. I want to ask you about some interesting moments in your long life and career. We read that you played a role in saving Wonder Woman. Yes, quite true. Wonder Woman, who was my favorite comic book character when I was growing up, by the time we started Ms. Magazine and we were all grown-ups, she had lost all of her magical powers. You know, the 1950s were a hard time for all women, including for Wonder Woman. She had become kind of like a car hop. cover of Ms. Magazine in her original self, and we ran her golden age strips inside and asked our

readers to lobby to bring Wonder Woman back with all her powers intact. And so many people wrote and carried on and lobbied and so on that the comic book company that owned Wonder Woman did finally make her her own self again as you began to see her. And I remember getting a call from one of the chief executives looking after Wonder Woman. And he said, OK, OK, she's got all her magical powers back. She can fly. She has a magic lasso that makes people tell the truth. She has a African-American Amazon sister named N nubia now will you leave me alone so wait

a minute it was your influence that ultimately brought around the 1970s linda carter uh wonder woman tv show well not exactly the tv show but she did indeed at least have her powers back i'm just going to believe that it's your fault and my 12-year-old self thanks you. Well, your 12-year-old self is very smart. Yeah, no, that's not what it was. One of the things

we found out in your book, your new book is a book of quotes, yours and others, but perhaps one of the most amazing things I found out in your book is you did not say

the thing that you are most famous for saying. You mean if... A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle yes i heard that and i repeated it and then it was wrongly attributed to me and finally i discovered that it was a woman in australia who had said it yeah uh when she was student, she had written it on the wall of a ladies' room, and it got on T-shirts and went around the world. Wait a minute, I'm sorry. She herself had, what?

It started by being written on the wall of a ladies' room? Wall of a ladies' room. In Australia? Yes, in the University of Sydney, yes. That's how we did viral in the 70s, kids. Well, Gloria Steinem, it is an honor to talk to you. We have asked you to play a game that we're calling... Steinem meet Steinmen.

Your last name is, of course, Steinem, but what do you know about Steinmen, which is another word for bartenders, people who fill up beer steins. Steins, as it happens, yes. It's true, we read it on the Internet. We're going to ask you three questions about remarkable bartenders and their drinks.

Answer two out of three correctly, and you'll win a prize for one of our listeners. Bill, who is Gloria Steinem playing for? Lillian Turner of Washington, D.C. All right. You ready to play? I'm afraid Lillian is in big trouble because I don't really drink that much,

but I'll try. Well, grab your Presidential Medal of Freedom and use its power. All right, here's your first question. If you visit the Eternity Bar in Ukraine, you'll be served by bartenders who are also what? A, they're DMV employees and it takes an eternity to get a drink. B, they're former KGB agents who instead of taking money make you inform on a friend. Or C, they're undertakers and agents who, instead of taking money, make you inform on a friend. Or C, they're undertakers and the bar is shaped like a coffin. Well, it must be undertakers because I just can't imagine it's the other two.

I think you're right. You're a very sensible person, Ms. Dynan. The entire bar is coffin and death themed. All right, here's your next question. A bartender in Canada was distraught when the essential ingredient for their signature cocktail was stolen. Was it A, their maple syrup stuffed olives for their Yukon martinis, B, a live moose who contributes the key ingredient for the moose sweat margarita,

or C, a human toe? I'll have to go with number one because I can't quite go with the other two. No. It, in fact, was the human toe. You're kidding. It is a very long story. But it's been stolen.

If anybody knows where this toe is, please return. All right, you have one last question. If you get this right, you win. The mayor of Minoah, Nebraska, also serves as the town's bartender and is also what? A, she is a top ten Formula One race car driver. B, she is the infamous artist Banksy. Or C, she is the only resident of the town of Minoie, Nebraska. I'll go for C.

You're right, Ms. Steinem. That's true. Elsie Eiler is 85 years old. She is the only resident of Beno'i. It is the smallest town in America, and she pays taxes to herself. I like that. Yeah, I know. That's great. It's kind of a feminist dream.

She does all the jobs. She's the only one there to do it. Bill, how did Gloria Steinem do? Gloria got two out of three, and that's a winner, Gloria. Oh, I wish that were so in life. Thank you. You are in life. Gloria Steinem, thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you. Thank you. That's it for our President's Day Week extravaganza. Support for NPR comes from NPR stations. And HomeAdvisor, committed to helping homeowners find the right pros for their home projects homeowners can read reviews book appointments and check cost guides for home projects at HomeAdvisor.com or on the mobile app visit St. Pete Clearwater offering a downtown street mural scene at the James Museum of Western and Wildlife Art and the

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and Doug Berman, Benevolent Overlord. Philip Godeker writes our limericks. Our public address announcer is Paul Friedman. Our intern is Emma Day. Our web guru is Beth Novy. BJ Liedemann composed our theme. Our program is produced by Jennifer Mills, Miles Dornbos, and Lillian King.

Technical direction is from Lorna White. Our business and ops manager is Colin Miller. Our production manager is Robert Newhouse. Our senior producer is Ian Dada-Chillogg. The executive producer of What We Don't Tell Me is Mr. Michael Danforth. Thanks to everybody you heard on our show today, all our panelists, all our guests, and of course, Bill Curtis. And thanks, of course, to all the presidents of the United States. Even you, Grover Cleveland, you know what you did. I'm Peter Sagal,

and we'll see you next week. This is NPR.