Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Adam Buxton

Episode Date: July 27, 2017

Emily visits comedian, actor and certified podcast royalty Adam Buxton at his home in Norfolk to take his whippet poodle cross, Rosie, out for a walk.He talks about dealing with criticism and insecurities, an embarrassing incident back in the '90s, the changing dynamic of his partnership with Joe Cornish, and he and Emily do their best Louis Theroux impressions. Dog tip: Dogs do speak but only to those who know how to listen. Translation: You know it's 2017? Can we move on from this whole 'outside toilet thing' please? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I now understand a whole world that I didn't. You know, the important relationship people have with animals and with their pets. They just think you're brilliant. And they just say, oh, you're back. I'm so pleased to see you. I love you. God, you're great. Hi, I'm Emily Dean.

Welcome to Walking the Dog. And this is your weekly reminder that there are three ways into my heart. Rate, review and subscribe on iTunes. This week, I went out for a lovely long walk with comic writer and podcast King, Adam Buxton, and his dog Rosie, who is a whip-it-poodle cross. Now, I know you're not meant to discuss politics and religion, but after this podcast, I discovered there's a third thing. Never bring up the subject of how old someone's dog looks.

I mean, Adam dealt with it. We're still talking. Okay, it's through lawyers, but it's a start. Adam's got an umbrella. You've got two umbrellas. You've got two umbrellas. This is from a Dutch hotel. I won't ask any questions. And Rosie's getting really excited, Adam. Rosie loves going for a walk, don't you, Rosie?

And it's very sad sometimes when the weather's terrible. And she'll just moot around. And every time I go into, she can hear me putting my boots on, which I've got my walking boots on now. Really? And she gets excited. And I can, literally, I'll go into the boot room and start putting my boots on. And I hear from upstairs, and she races down.

stairs it's weird she can sense it's a mournful look on her face she's excited yeah but she doesn't want it to be over already here we go okay so this is so exciting thank you so much for hey i should say by the way for coming this is walking the dog yeah and i'm with adam buxton hello who is i would describe you as writer comedian actor and king of the podcast yeah that's exactly how I described myself. Really? Do you think that's a fair description? Well I think that's flattering but but yes it's what I would those are all the things I have done and would like to do more of. So we're at your home which is let's just let's keep it vague. Well it's I tell you where it's not a kidnapper's guide. No it's near a

village called Wyndham. Okay. Weymondham in near Norwich and we're out in the country and we're very lucky to have this quite big place with a lot of outbuildings. Yeah. And that was the thing, you know, the cliche about moving out of London is you suddenly find your money for your crazily expensive property that you had in London suddenly goes a lot further and you're able to live like a king. Well, it looks like you have a nice life here. Oh man, I mean, I always feel guilty whenever I'm talking to people who have some sort of very strongly held political beliefs or who have had difficult lives. I just think, I feel like God, I don't really have anything to complain about at all.

I'm one of the luckiest people in the world. Well, that's okay to acknowledge that, isn't it? I count my blessings, yeah. It's hard, though, because what you don't want to do is be one of those, what I call hashtag blessed people. Yeah. You know, on the internet, and they say, Feeling so blessed right now with my wonderful life. And we're here with Rosie, who is adorable.

And so people who listen to your podcast, they'll be familiar with her. Because she's on the podcast with you. You have your little ramble, don't you, at the beginning with her? Well, she's about four years old, three and a half, something like that. Don't take this wrong way, but she looks older. Oh, yeah. Well, she's wise. Okay.

Plus she's shaggy. I don't know. I don't know anything about dogs, really. I'm offended. You said my dog looked old. Are you genuinely offended? No, I'm not genuinely offended. That is quite rude of me, isn't it?

I mean, is it rude? Yeah, I mean, you did say, don't take this the wrong way. You must have known it was a pretty rude thing to say about a person's dog. Your dog looks very old. What are you doing? You're working your dog too hard. You're cruel. But is that rude?

I mean that's an interesting point. Is it room to tell someone their dog looks old? I mean if you said to me you look old I'd be pretty upset but a dog looking old that's okay isn't it? I mean that's what where do you stand on people making observations about your appearance anyway I always try and avoid it because I think I don't even like thinking about it. I think you're only allowed to comment on someone's appearance if you provide a positive caveat with it so I know a know a girl that constantly says, have you had your hair done? And you say yes. And she says, I thought you did. And then the deafening sound of silence. Yeah, that's bad in general. I don't

like it when people say stuff like, oh yeah, I saw your show. Yeah. And that's it. And you're like, okay. And years ago at a party, that happened to me. And I, and I was embarrassed by the silence. And so I said, And what did you think? And the person said to me, yeah, not my thing. Not really my thing. And I said, oh, okay. And they were talking about the TV show, the Adam and Joe show that I used to do. And I said, oh, right, okay.

Well, what is your sort of thing? And they reeled off a list of shows that I absolutely love. You know what I mean? So clearly, we had similar tastes, but they had taken against. But it's weird when people, do you think people sometimes decide to do that? Yes, as a bit of a pose. Yeah, it's a bit of a pose and I'm taking this position. Or a power play.

Yeah. Or sometimes is it... That's the only way... I'm... I'm saying that this is the only possible way that someone could dislike my work is as a power play. It's not that they just didn't like it. Classic power play.

They think I'm a moron. Yeah. Right. It's a power play. No, sometimes I think it's this misguided notion that he must be used to people saying how great his work is. I'm going to stand out as the one person, the truth teller. Yep.

And we know each other as well. We've got history. How did we meet then? We met back in the 90s and we met through... Jonathan, yes, because... Jonathan Ross, yes. And his wife Jane. Indeed. And that was when they used to live in... There was a big old place with lots of movie posters, like magic movie posters from the 30s.

I mean, its place is still... still it's just a slightly bigger old place. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, in Hampstead and we used to kind of all hang out and there. There were a lot of parties there, I remember. Yeah. A lot of celebs coming and going. I remember to my shame. Yeah. Being so sort of excited and overwhelmed that I thought more or less any kind of behavior

was acceptable. So at a certain point, I remember Sell, my wife was over in the corner chatting to whoever, I don't know, maybe Joe or Joe's girl. friend Annabella and I was talking to Jane Jonathan's wife and Jane Middlemish. Oh yes, yeah. And I was just sort of over-excited and had maybe had, you know, two wines. Yeah. And so I think I was sort of flirting or trying to flirt with both Jane Goldman and Jane Middlemish. I mean, it's pretty bad behaviour for me, I would say. And I, I, I, you know, I had, It's not something I would ever do now. You know what I mean?

I look back with shame that I did it because I just sort of thought, I'm like a cool celeb guy hanging out with celebs. This is what we do. We just do whatever we want. Did you feel a bit Wolf of Wall Street? I think so. I just thought, yeah, that was your earlier moment. I'm pretty mad and I do a TV show and I'm hanging out with Jane from the Ozone.

That's an obscure TV reference listeners. And what happened then? Did you have a moment of self-awareness? Yeah, my moment of self-awareness came the next morning. Saturday morning when Jonathan was on Radio 2 back in those days doing his excellent radio show. And he was chatting with his producer about this party that he'd had the night before. And I was like, oh, I was at that party. So my ears pricked up.

And then at a certain point he described, he said, oh, and then someone, one of the one of the, those Channel 4 comedian types was flirting with my wife and I thought oh I know who that was it was Louis Theroux because Louis was there and I thought Louis he's a disgrace I bet he was flirting it didn't cross my mind that he meant me yeah but then I said I called Louie I was like hey man did you hear Jonathan talking about the party last night and I think he meant you like flirting with Jane Lou was like mate he definitely meant you. Did you ever ask Jonathan?

I don't think I did. I was too embarrassed. Well, the good news is, in a way you'll get confirmation now as a result of this podcast. Yeah. Some years after the event. But yeah, no, it's...

But no, it was... Jonathan is incredibly loyal and kind and was one of those people always who... He enjoyed the life he had and he wanted to share it with other people. I think so, yeah. And we always really appreciated it, you know, me and Joe especially. It was very exciting.

I mean, he'd get the call. You know, do you want to come over on Friday night? We've got some people around and you're like, whoa, he's going to be there. And what's he going to be talking about? Well, it's like I used to say with Jonathan, it's like hanging out with a Tudor King, but you don't get beheaded. Yeah. So you get all that munificence.

and all that, you know, you go into a restaurant with Jonathan and you're saying, oh, I'm not sure, just get 10 of them. You know, and I kind of quite like that. It's a real lust for life, isn't it? Yeah, it's sort of a fantasy. He's like, it's like he's working for the Fame Marketing Board. Okay, so who would be working against him? Jonathan, Fame's getting a bad rap. We were wondering if you could come in and make it look really brilliant again. Yeah, we're going to need to get Ross on the case. Rosie's run ahead now. Talk me through Rosie and when you got her. So I was not in a doggy family at all when I grew up.

Well, you're not? No, my dad was a writer, a travel writer. So he was off and away. And we lived in London. Actually, we lived in Wales for a long time, but then moved to London. So it was not practical for us to have animals, really, because we would travel with my dad quite a bit as well. We were very lucky in that respect.

So we got to travel around the world with him. as he was writing. Yeah. But it meant that really it wasn't practical to have a dog or any other animal. Good from my dad's point of view

because he was not a big animal lover, I don't think. I've ended up being a lot like my dad in a lot of ways in that he was a sort of lower middle class boy who managed to,

well he went off to war. He fought in the Second World War. But he came came back and inserted himself into a kind of snooty society in some ways, ended up hobnobbing with people from a different class or from further up the upper classes. And what, and do you think he enjoyed that? Yeah, he loved it because he, because, yeah, why not? Yeah.

It wasn't like he was hanging out with, they were nice. I think now a lot of people have an image fixed in their minds of the upper classes being just indifference. being just indefensible wankers entirely. And obviously there are a great many who are like that. But there's also a lot of people who are interesting and well-read and who've had interesting lives and met interesting people. And you can be down on them because you think they've had it all handed to them on a plate. And okay, fair enough.

But he, you know, was friends with people like Patrick Lee Furmer, who was a famous travel writer with John LeCarray and Reginald Bozhenkett who was a famous boozy I remember a news reader wasn't he yeah so would you describe your background was sort of intelligentsia middle-class intelligentsia I guess yeah you know he liked the company of those people he was I think he felt as if they were the types of people he wanted to emulate in a lot of ways and he wanted to be respected as a writer in in the way that those people were a lot of the time and he was probably tortured a lot of the time by feeling that he came up short when compared to them and so he was a complicated character and then I think he when he had

children wanted them to be part of that world too yeah and so he felt that the best way to ensure that happened was to send to expensive schools where they would hobnob and make friends with in your case yeah the the kind of you know

the captains of industry and but do you think in his case it was kind of the literary elite in that sense rather than those are the people that he ended up yeah he wasn't hanging out with arms dealers and yeah i don't think so when you were at westminster you i mean you were there you're good friends with louis theroo yeah obviously you guys were at school

together and Joe was there? Is that right? Joe was there, yes. Who's your comedy? Yeah, and I think Joe was in a similar situation. It was a curious mix of people at Westminster. Some of them were the sons of, yeah, billionaires and millionaires. And then other people were fairly, from fairly ordinary families who were just doing everything

they could to pay the school fees. We were saying we first met in the 90s. Yeah. And at that time, we met through Jonathan Ross, as we said, and you and Joe were doing the Adam and Joe show, which was a huge success. It's one of the most important shows ever made. Well, I think in some ways it was. So when I saw someone the other, I'm not, it's not that I can't take a compliment, but I am always, because whenever I hear people, the Americans do it, right? They're always, they've made a decision, which is probably right in a lot of ways.

Okay. That if you put yourself down, people are going to believe it. And they're just going to go, oh, right, okay, he's just a bit crap. And that's one thing that Brits do a lot, right? Is putting themselves down. Yeah. But I just, the flip side makes me a little bit nauseated. People just trumpeting their own genius.

I know what you mean. And talking about how important they and their work are. And I've spent so much of my life being. a little bit cynical about those things, that it seems odd. When people are nice about something like our TV show, I think, well, I met a guy just last week, a friend of mine who said,

oh, they're repeating the Adam and Joe show on some channel in London. Yeah. And he'd been up at 3 a.m. watching it. And he's like, oh, it's really aged badly. And I was like, well, yeah. Like Rosie. Yeah.

I said, well, it was. always supposed to be a kind of time capsule really it was supposed to be disposable a pop culture review we always felt that at the time that probably this will not stand the test of time and he said no it really hasn't your show i was thinking about it the other day because you did a sort of a thing at the bfi which i went to with joe oh yeah our 20th anniversary which was your anniversary and i loved it and i think what occurred to me actually was that it was incredibly ahead of its time and that what you were doing well look he was Who's coming up the drive?

The old squire is coming up the drive. We're going to get to the gate and we're just going to turn around and retrace our steps. Okay. I think you and Joe got to a point where you could have gone down a different road. Like you could have been a sort of university educated Anton Decc. There was a lot of love for you and you're very popular with young people. Not that we were university educated. No, that's true.

Joe went to film school. I went to art school. You studied sculpture at last in college. Does that count as university education? yeah I didn't study sculpture at St. Martin's I know I would have loved to have done but you studied sculpture? My friend Garth Jennings did. Really? Yeah, maybe not sculpture but yeah I went to Cheltenham and Gloucester but yeah sorry you were saying no I was just saying I find it interesting that you I think

could have gone down maybe like a light end route and and you know that sort of I don't know if we did try because i remember there was a uh an executive at channel four in those days called kevin lago and he took us out to the what's the fancy restaurant that everyone the ivy so we were at the ivy having lunch one afternoon and it was after we'd done our fourth series and still amazing to me that we actually did four series on channel four of our tv show and he said right so what's next what do you you're going to do i don't think we're going to commission any more adam and joe shows yeah i think you guys need to go to the next level now and um and sort of embrace the mainstream a little bit more i'm paraphrasing but this is more or less the gist of what he was saying and i think that we

i hesitate to speak to joe but i think that we were both mortified by that idea and we thought no it's fun being in the margins and so you wanted to be yeah we wanted to be we wanted to be we because that whole show was born out of an affection for things that were not mainstream. Yeah. And for a slight snarky desire to snipe from the sidelines a little bit or to gently take the piss, you know. And the idea of ending up as one of those people on one of those shows that we always complained about was really depressing. And plus we didn't have any good ideas for how we would do that. We had sort of stupid, weird ideas of meta game shows,

and we were very impressed with Vic and Bob and the way that they did shooting stars, and just thought, yes, you see, that's the way to do it. But we never really had that same sensibility that Vic and Bob do, you know. Did you want to be famous? Was that the inflection when you set out? Probably. It's got to be there somewhere. You know what I mean? Don't you reckon?

If you're going to... Because it takes a lot of effort. to do it, to do anything, to make a TV show, to make a film, make music, whatever. You don't drift into it, you can drift into it now and then, but to actually pursue it as a career, it's a lot of work and it's disruptive and difficult a lot of the time. So, part of what's making you do that has got to be some sense of, ooh, I'd like to be, I'd like people to know who I am. Yes.

You know what I mean? And it's not a good impulse. think many people would admit to it. No. But it has to be there. Well, I think it's also something that, I don't know, but I think it's probably there when you're a bit more unformed as a person, when you're younger maybe, and you're looking externally for validation all the time.

Yeah. And I guess maybe as you get older and other things come in your life, whether that be kids or a relationship or work, and it just, I think maybe you're looking out less and Well, you realise very quickly that all the clichés are true. And that actually... It's totally meaningless. The thing that is important is what you're actually doing. And you realise that any notion that fame is going to make your life more interesting or enjoyable is completely cockied.

I think the fact that you've been with your wife for a long time. it's probably quite significant though to me. I remember when I sort of knew you in the 90s and I really don't know why I vividly remember this I really wanted to tell you because I've never forgotten it we were all sort of staying out drinking and you said I've got to go and we said oh no come and have another drink you said no I've got to I'm going to meet this girl and it was Sarah your wife

and I remembered your words and you said I can't flake on her. I can't flake on her. I'm worried. I don't want her to think that I'm flaky because it's really important to me that she doesn't think that. Oh yeah. Well, she's in a different league to me

in every conceivable way. She's sort of, first of all, much taller than I am and considerably more intelligent. So, yeah. I remember that very well. Do you? I met her over in some pub way.

in West London. Yeah. It was a busy Friday night. It was quite warm night I remember. And she looked, she had a big coat with a big furry collar and to me she looked like Sean Young in Blade Run. You know what I mean? Just brilliant. Yeah. And she has all this kind of like really wild. Yeah, crazy hair. Andy McDowell hair. Right. And I thought she was absolutely terrific and yes, very sensible she's a lawyer so in almost every conceivable way the opposite from myself so I guess that tells you something about me but I don't know what and I went to your wedding which was really lovely yeah that's one thing that I do look back on a night I was I was stung but when I heard that a few friends of

Sarah's yeah felt that I was trying too hard to kind of crowbar celebrity appearances in there really yeah because I'd taped some little good luck messages and actually Jonathan helped me. Jonathan Ross said oh look you know I'm doing my radio show if anyone interesting comes through I'll get them to do a little message that you can play on the day and actually that was quite early doors for that because people do that a lot now right then that was quite unusual yeah so he got Joe Strummer to do a message for us and my friend Dougie who's in Travis they were playing on Letterman

in America and Julia Roberts was on the show so he got Julia Roberts to do a message with Julie Roberts pretending that she was like an old friend of cells you know like hi Sal sorry I can't be there and listen good luck and don't forget keep the cap on the toothpaste toilet seat down and those were her tips for a successful relationship and who else did I get well I got Frank Black from the pixies to play a couple of songs and I still was very much in that mindset of, oh, celebrities, they're great. And if you got some of them to show off, then that's as good as things get. And actually, it was also supposed to be a bit spoofy.

There's no question that I knew Julia Roberts. And that was a joke. But I think some of my friends and some of Sarah's friends thought, what are you trying to prove? You were getting lost in that world. And it was a bit bright light's big city. Yeah, yeah. which it was. I was excited by it and dazzled. I couldn't believe that I was in a position to go and sit down with a hero of mine, Frank Black from the Pixies, and get him to play a song

for the woman I was going to marry. I just thought, this is fucking amazing. Yeah. And actually also, I think probably with everyone, as we've said, especially when you're younger, there is that there's that kind of wide-eyed wonderment. Yes. When you're in front of your heroes or just anyone who's kind of famous and then hopefully as you get older that gets a bit more measured but also yeah they they all die they all and then you just accrue respect by dint of having survived then you have to start pretending you're really passionate about Justin Bieber it's just the older people who are still going god he's still around is he what's that mediocre creep doing whereas everyone younger's like oh yeah he's very good what a great autobiography mediocre creep

But I do think with you, like I say, I think the fact that you went down that route of stability in your home life was probably really important for you. But I think it's hard to be a good person sometimes, isn't it? Well, obviously it is for everyone. And, you know, there are details of my life that I'm ashamed of and that I would change if I had the opportunity. Yeah. And I, it's not as if I've reached any kind of level of spiritual nirvana where I just wander around doing everything right the whole time. Almost every day I do something that makes me cringe.

Like what? What happened today that made you cringe? Well, I haven't done anything terrible yet. Okay. Although I haven't listened back to this. So what's made you cringe recently? Well, you know, in a certain way, in a certain way, I suppose it's a bit cringy. to, I don't know, you know, just selfish things.

Okay. When you're being selfish and when you're guarding your own comfort too jealously and it ends up meaning that you haven't thought about someone else well enough. And also, you know, I get into confrontations every now and again with members of the public. Is this online? No, this is on, very often in train stations with officials. Right. you know i i i don't like i take being told off very badly okay i don't like being told off we're

talking earlier on about the actually i'm not even going to say the phrase because i know if i say the phrase then people will tweet it at me to antagonize me i know the phrase we're talking about a phrase that people often use i'll say the phrase because otherwise it'll be too annoying when people say not cool it drives me fucking crazy i just want to reach through the uh through the screen and punch them all over their body and in their face mainly

and carry on punching until they say, okay, I'm sorry, I was wrong it is cool no and obviously partly it's probably because I'm stung by a legitimate beef that they have with me but it's that it's that superiority

that people have online I'm going to judge you right now and there's no way that you can really come back unless you're going to get into a fight with me. There's something about not cool, which is Zeus has spoken. Yeah. From atop his cloud. Not cool.

Not cool. I wouldn't do that. I don't approve of that. You are a bad person for doing that. Like the last thing I think was someone saying that I seem to encourage Rosie the dog on my podcast to antagonize members of the rabbit community. whoever it might be or at least I don't do anything to stop it. And they say, you know, I like your podcast, but I don't like the way that you think it's funny for Rosie to be attacking other animals.

As if I'm encouraging her to go out and savage. And I just think you don't know anything about my life, what I'm doing out here, you know, what I'm like as a person or anything really. And maybe some people feel they do because they listen to the podcast and they think, oh yeah. Yeah, I would say you've become, well, for me anyway, and for a lot of people I know, I think you've, you really revolutionized podcasting because you were a very early adopter and I think you've really exploited what's great about them, which is that intimacy. Yeah.

And. Well, thanks. That's nice of you. Do you ever interview people and think, I just wish you'd open up more? Yeah. the time but this is the big schism right at the core of dr buckles is to what extent is it a good idea to really open up to what extent are we just in a culture that celebrates that because it's fun and titillating right but

ultimately is it really what is in people's best interests has it not partly led to the world where people overshare Right. And that real sentiment has been cheapened somewhat because it's so easily shared. And we are now no longer shocked by someone dissolving into tears. Something that I occasionally do on the podcast as well. I suddenly become all weepy. And, you know, this is, I'm now more or less paraphrasing my dad's point of view, right?

So this is how you felt. Because your dad, I mean, most people who are familiar with you or no, but you lost your dad. Yeah, he died at the end of 2015. Yeah. And he was very much old school. You know, keep it, siff up a lip, keep it buttoned. And I think he was too far that way. I think a happy medium is what you're after.

Sorry, I'm just loving Rosie jumping over these. She's gambling. What are these? Are these cabbages? I don't know. They look like anything about nature. I think they look like they'd look nice in a salad at Soho House. They do look nice. They're very leafy, aren't they?

little bit of chili and some sort. I've got no idea what they are. But yes, he, so my dad thought like, don't, don't just let it all hang out. He didn't like very over the top displays of public emotion, really. It's interesting, isn't it? Because people are quite buttoned up on the hole. Yeah. And do you have therapy? Have you ever had it? Uh, no, I never have. But I, but I totally see why people do. I think it's clearly helped. a lot of people and I've thought about it on many occasions when I felt like God I just haven't got an answer to how I'm feeling and I don't see any way forward without someone stepping in and giving me some perspective and you don't

want sometimes your friends aren't the people to do that because you don't trust what they have to say because they you think they're saying what you want them to hear or what they you know what they want you blah blah blah you know what I mean oh Rosie found a there was an incident that's a pheasant well done Rosie yeah well done my son the pheasant was clearly about to attack us and where did you get her uh did you get Rosie from Sarah my wife sorted it all out because we my son Natty when he was little wanted a dog so much and we thought it would be good for him to have someone to look after and i was not up for the idea really yeah

But I just thought, you know, we've already got a lot of stuff we need to be looking after and taking care of. Why do we need one more thing to complicate our lives further? But now, of course, I can't imagine being without Rosie. She's part of the family. Very much. That crazy girl. And I see, I now understand a whole world that I didn't, which is that, you know, the important relationship people have with animals and with their pets.

completely oblivious to it. Never really made that much sense to me. Yeah, it's a really strong bond, isn't it? Yeah, and it is very therapeutic to talk about therapy. Yeah. Just to have someone there who isn't judging you, who isn't saying, not cool, when you, when you do something stupid, they just think you're brilliant. And they just say, oh, you're back. I'm so pleased to see you. I love you. God, you're great. You know, and they never say, hey, you put on a bit of weight. Oh, you look old. Yeah, you look really old.

How old are you? Wow, you look twice that. Your hair's bad. Why don't you get some proper clothes? I saw that thing you did on YouTube. Not really very funny. Oh, you were embarrassing on 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown. I don't get any of this from Rosie.

All I get is, I love you. Are we going to go for a walk? Oh, God, it's brilliant. So great that you're home. Oh, you look handsome. I love you so much. Can we watch more of that Frank Zappa documentary tonight? That's one of my favorites.

I'm just going to put my head on your lap. I love you. I love the idea of Rosie watching the Frank Zappa documentary. It's excellent. She rates it. So it's just wonderful. It's wonderful to have that person in your life. And I do think of Rosie as a person.

Yeah. I think you do. I always think that with my dog, Ray. I only recently joined the dog. owner, the world of dog owners and I'll talk to him like he can understand me and I think well he can't but it's still I like having his presence there yeah I really do and it's very hard to get beyond the idea that maybe they can understand quite a bit I mean not for nothing is there a significant amount of fiction which involves animals being able to acquire the power

of speech yeah you know I think that's one of our big fantasies as human beings is to actually be able to find out to what degree those creatures that we love really do have personalities and what they would say sometimes it's overwhelming the yearning you have to actually want your dog to speak to you yeah yeah say because you feel so strongly that they are thinking things sometimes you just want to hear it but obviously if they actually did speak they'd probably say, you know, I really need to shit. So, so anyway you could open the door. That would be great. I've seen some of these videos they do where people, you know, they record themselves fainting or pretending to have a heart attack. To see how the dog reacts.

I wasn't aware of that genre. No. It's quite a strange thing, isn't it? That is not cool. That is not a cool practical joke to do on anyone. Yeah. That sounds like something that the young people would do and then put on vice. No, I think the one I saw was quite a middle-aged man. What? Saying, I mean, he was in Florida or something. Yeah.

But he was saying, laugh so much when the old girl thought I'd died. Yeah. And he would just clutched his chest and made a loud, ah, ah, noise. And the dog starts going nuts, obviously. And he's really upset and distraught. Not cool. And he then collapses on the ground. And the dog's licking him and the dog's jumping all over him and barking.

And I thought, well, how far does this extend? Do you do it to your children? Yeah, exactly. I pretend it to die on Friday. Yeah. No, that's very weird. And also the dog may well just be thinking, who's going to give me my supper?

What are you doing? Get up. I'm hungry. So I don't. But, I mean, you have therapy, right? I have therapy. And do you feel like you're giving away, do you, was there any part of you that felt you were sort of letting go a little bit or giving up responsibility for things that you should have been able to manage yourself? I'm playing devil's advocate.

No, yeah, and that's interesting, I think. I had therapy after my sister died and then I just carried on. and then I had it, my parents died very closely to each other so I'd had all my family members basically died within three years. Oh man. So it just felt a bit Game of Thrones episode, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why I did it.

But I think what's interesting in the question you ask about that because I think when I started therapy, I was a bit looking for reasons and, you know, that thing of going back to your childhood. My parents did this. that does happen initially but I think if you successfully see it through what can happen after trauma and I'm trying to do this I'm not perfect but I I never blame anyone else now so I try not to so I think it's always your

responsibility I learned something when I went on this retreat once in Ireland and it was everyone is guilty no one is to blame right and that's how I try and live my life so we're all f*** ups but you can't blame anyone else for it Yes, who is it? I was, this is not directly related, but there was, I was listening to this, um, conversation between, uh, a American journalist and George Harrison. Yeah. That was recorded back in the day. And, um, George Harrison, he bought this, uh, place, Friar Park. Right. Right. He lived. The 19th century home I'm now re, because I made a note of it. That's so sweet. I haven't got his phone out to read it.

and I thought he was looking at a text. And I thought, this is amazing that he's multitasking. He's having a conversation with me about my parents' death. And he's reading a text from a friend. And he's sending an amusing tweet. He's remonstrating with someone with the phrase not cool. No, Sir Frank Crisp was the owner of this place, Friar Park, before George Harrison bought it. And there was lots of kind of slightly tweee inscriptions and aphorisms written in very

places around and one of them that George Harrison loved and eventually incorporated into a song he wrote said scan not a friend with microscopic glass you know his faults so let his foibles pass oh wow I think that's great guy Frank Crisp was a that was his job was to do with microscopy yeah and so that was his little aphorism there but things like that powerful I think but no one is the thing about social media to bring it back to that is that is the thing that I always find difficult about it is that you are butted up against all these people who don't know you who aren't prepared to give

you a free pass because they are judging you they are judging words that you've come out with or things that you've done in isolation and so then the microscopic glass is being deployed and not in your favor and and you end up with the not cool thing But do you, you don't, I mean on social media, obviously that's a pain in the ass and I get that. But you don't strike me as someone who's kind of angry in your daily life or... No, no. I mean, I've had times when, no, not really. I mean, you know, you get depressed about the same things that a lot of people do and you see the way the world is and you worry that you aren't doing enough.

You aren't doing your bit. You know, you aren't doing enough to change that. So those are the main things, I suppose. There's a combination of melancholy and guilt. Yeah. That's the main things I struggle with. But no, I'm not angry. I'm not bitter.

I've had moments where I've wished things had gone slightly differently. And I've certainly had many moments where I've been embarrassed by things I've said or done. But, no, I'm not angry. You're always quite honest about that, aren't you? I hear you sometimes. I listen to your podcast a lot. You'd think I'd learn my lesson. I'm always, because I listen to other people.

people who do podcasts, right? And this guy, Mark Maron, who I, who, I heard your interviewer. Yeah. And I really like his podcast, but he's a figure that polarizes people. And he goes into much more depth in, in his podcast when it comes to his hang-ups and his neuroses and... That's oversharing, isn't it? Yeah, but he's very, I mean, I, I, you either like it or you don't. And that's his whole shtick is he talks in a very candid way about things that he doesn't like about himself. But then sometimes you find yourself thinking, well, look, if you've got all this insight,

why don't you fucking do something about it and stop being a prick? You know what I mean? But do you think people do change? Do you think people change? I think you've changed a lot from when I first knew you. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I hope so. But you say that like...

Maybe I just cover it up better. No, I think you've changed a lot. Well, someone else said that to me the other day, a close friend. He said, you're not... You're a lot softer these days. and it surprised me that I think I used to upset people a little bit because I assumed that everyone was on everyone was doing bans you know what I mean right right so I thought like if I liked someone then I would

tease them and I would fool around and say sort of weird silly things because I assumed that they knew where I was coming from but then you found out you're walking into rooms and people were going on yeah I'm going to f*** out. It's that g-ha-ha-ha-ha. Here we go. I really like Sarah. But what are we going to do?

Because that guy is a problem. I found out more than once that that is more or less what some people thought. Really? Yeah. We were friends and they, and, you know, they judged me not with microscopic glass. And they forgave my foibles. But they, I think when me and Joe used to get together, especially, we would delight in each other's company.

Right. To such a degree that it was quite, it wasn't very inclusive, you know, and I think it was pretty annoying. And you and Joe, I was going to ask you about that, because you and Joe, obviously, you did the radio show for a long time, which was, you know, lots of people considered that one of the best radio shows ever made. it's kind of lauded by everyone and there's a fantastic show. I'm just letting you carry on.

I love it. And your partnership is and was incredible and it's great when you get to reunite in things. But when the show ended initially, that was really sad for everyone who loved it. And for me. Was it? Yeah, I was really sad. It was one of the few times when I thought like we're in the right place at the right time, you know. And this is fun and people like it.

and I like it and if people were to criticize it, it wouldn't hurt because I knew that it was decent. You know what I mean? It wasn't always great, obviously, but I knew that it was good enough on a regular enough basis for me to be really happy with it and to really enjoy doing it and look forward to doing it. So what happened? What was the Yoko Ono thing that broke up with that? Oh, I'll tell you what Yoko Ono was. First of all, I'm not totally behind the whole concept of, demonising people by invoking the name Yoko Ono because I'm one of those people that... I feel like you just said to me not cool. Yeah. No, I'm saying it to myself because I've been, I went through that journey of being a Beatles fan that sort of explained away the breakup. Oh,

you know, it's, it's, it's, I just feel like it's a lazy male way of explaining how things go. A bloody girl. A bloody girl came and ruined the whole bloody thing. And it ignores so many important things that were happening in John's life and ignores so many great things about Yoko and about how they related and how important they were to each other and you just get so many mad stupid fans kind of going oh that bitch she ruined it all and you know you're right you know what I'm going to reconsider that because it is we say it don't we as a kind of it's just a thing now and it's entered the vernacular yeah and you use that concept of Yoko Ono but actually it was was quite lazy misogyny of its time and I'm done with it.

And probably, you know, she was different in every way to the other people that they were hanging out with and the other wives and it's just a fear of the other to a large degree. Now that's not to say that she wasn't maybe a challenging person and that the way they behaved sometimes was so hugger-mugger that it felt exclusive to the others. But that's a different thing. That's about couple dynamics and friend dynamics and to that extent I can relate. And I felt very threatened and I talked to him about it when he was on my podcast by Edgar Wright, the film director who was pals with us but hooked up with you and Joe.

So we've left Yoko by the way. Yeah, we've left. And we are now saying... A Yoko owner apologist, but I like that. Yeah, if we're going to, if we're going with the Yoko analogy. Yeah. Edgar was Yoko. Edgar is Yoko.

Why? Because he got friends with Joe, Edgar, right? And were you a bit, a bit gel bag? I was, yes, I was, yes, that's exactly the phrase that I would reach for. Is that a therapeutic phrase? I've learned that in therapy. I can't, I can't share the etymology of it. Is it possible?

That's perhaps, because this is a lazy racial characterization. My Austrian shrink is male, I know. Is it possible, Emily, that you are maybe a little bit jelly bags? Are you like a little bit gel gel, gel? Are you well gel about this? You are a jelly baby. That is your big problem. Oh, jelly, jelly baby, you're a gel bag.

Now, you know what my therapist would say? That will be £500. But you know what my therapist would say, you've gone off on a tangent. Yes, I have to avoid. Classic avoidance. It's, yes, no, it's very simple. I've spoken about it before, so I don't feel as if I'm betraying too many confidences. But Joe and myself formed a friendship that was fueled by dreams of one day making films.

And Joe went to film school and we both loved movies and went to the movies all the time. And we fantasized about the kind of thing that we would one day. And we made a few bits and pieces when we were younger. And of course, we ended up doing the TV show, which was, and we did all. our little movie parodies and that felt to us as if we were in some way part of the industry and it was exciting. Yeah. And then we hoped that when we got the opportunity we would make something proper as it were. Right. Original and we tried a few times and we had interest from film four and places like that to develop ideas that we would write together and that

Maybe I would be in as well as an actor and Joe would direct. Because that's what the relationship was at school. We made a couple of short films when we were at school that Joe directed and I appeared in and I enjoyed. You know, I'd make posters and that was one of the aspects that I really loved was all that. So the wheels were sort of set in motion. Yeah. That was the dream. And then, you know, kind of petty squabbles and uncomfortable,

competitive anxieties crept in once we started working on the TV show together. Yeah. And also, it became evident that writing, sitting down, writing in a room together was not our strong suit. I feel as if I was the problem and that I've never really nailed that. I have done it once or twice, semi-successfully, but I find it tricky. And I'm always interested whenever I talk to people on my podcast, if they're writers or if they are creative in that way, if they collaborate with other people. I'm always very curious to know how they deal with it because it's a recurring theme. It's not easy to collaborate in that way.

And so when Joe formed a friendship with Edgar and it became clear that they were writing together. And then when actually some of their projects started getting made and then when they went off and they were writing for Stephen Spiel. I was like, is this actually fucking happening? Joe, he's gone off with a Edgar, oh no, and he's writing for Stephen, and they're sitting in a room with Steven Spielberg, who we grew up idolizing, and I'm not there, and there's no way that I'm invited. And I found that...

It's a bit when your ex-Maris Angelina Jolie, isn't it? Yeah. So I found that pretty pretty... pretty I was pretty I turned into a jelly baby did you I did and I was threatened

and I just thought shit I'm not there because I can't do it and Joe can and now he's exactly where I want to be and now I'm genuinely

over that how did you get over that then how did I I think time and also seeing how difficult that world is and how

there's a big tax to be paid oh god yeah and how hard Joe works and in how many situations he has to keep his shit together where I would not and I'm not cut out for it I enjoy my autonomy I'm very grateful for my lot and I feel especially since my dad died I've got that thing like I should just really concentrate on what's good about my life and not worry too much about what I don't have. Do you think that had a big effect on you, your dad, dying? Yeah, massive. I mean, I was immediately plunged into a completely cliched midlife crisis

and a crisis of mortality. Right. Of just being suddenly very, very aware that time was short. did you get that? Yeah, very much so. But I think did you see that as when you say midlife crisis

that suggests that sounds negative to me Well midlife crisis generally That sounds a bit poor Hollywood leather jacket In a Ferrari Exactly but I think that's the cliche of it That's just people

Associating that whole thing With the Wazaki men Yeah But it's not exclusively a male thing And I was talking to Miranda Sawyer about it She wrote a very good book called Out of Time all about this. Exploring this period in your middle age, whether you're a man or a woman,

where you suddenly become painfully aware of the way that time works and how cruelly it speeds up and how suddenly all these things that you've taken for granted start stacking up. And the way that you used to feel so carefree about certain things just evaporates and you suddenly realize that from now on it's a process of managing

a lot of painful feelings rather than when you're younger you're just trying to corral all your excitements and your expectations and your hopes and optimisms about all the great great things that I'm going to do in my life and the things that are going to happen to me because I'm great

you just make all young people sound like dicks But I know what you mean. But they are. Yeah. They are or dicks. Because they don't know any of this. And this is the thing that you can't communicate. There's a barrier that time has set up

that is impossible to penetrate. It is impossible to communicate to a young person. Those things that you are suddenly aware of when people you love start dying. And also it would take a lot of the fun out of being young. Well, also to achieve anything, to do crazy things. you can't be saddled with a permanent awareness of...

No, and no one's talking about, you know, the trick is balance. You don't want to focus on... You don't say, hey, Dad, the new Power Rangers movie. Yeah, but we're all going to die. Yeah, what's the point? But my father would say that. He'd come in and say, there's a... You'd say, oh, isn't it?

And he'd say, there's a man with a chopper waiting to get all of us. Would he really say that? Yeah. Yeah, my dad was a bit like that. I found a book in my dad's shelves. I have all his possessions here now because he lived with us in the last months of his life. He was here, wasn't he, before he died? Yeah, yeah.

I've thrown a lot of it out. But I kept all his books. And one of the books I found was by this philosopher called Roger Scruton. He had a book called, I think it's called The Uses of Pessimism. And it is a big philosophical tome all about how all these prats going around. encouraging you to be optimistic and upbeat about life are ultimately self-defeating and actually making things harder for themselves in the long run and what you should actually do is get to grips with how f***ed we all are yeah yeah and how unfair things are and then move on

on that basis and i always remember my dad saying you know i'd say like that's not fair why why why why do we have to do that's not fair you know like kids too yeah he would say life itself is unfair and i'd just be thinking what the f f f does that mean life itself is unfair that's bullshit and anyway what's the point of saying that why why look at it like that life itself is not it's meaningless and i wouldn't express myself in exactly that way have you found yourself saying that to your kids now no i don't say it but i do understand what he meant He was like, don't expect things to work out the way you want them to, because we are in a narrative that doesn't end well for any of us.

So why don't you proceed on that basis? None of us are making it out of this. Yeah. By the way, we were talking earlier on about not letting everything hang out. I mean, I am really conflicted about it because I do believe that talking about things is very useful and almost always positive and certainly within a marriage it's absolutely crucial to keep the wheels on the bus and within any relationship really it's so valuable and it's i like it and it's fun and well i also think relationships unsuccessful relationships i've had yeah have been unsuccessful a lot of the time because of a lack of openness yeah exactly so you know i've dated people and suddenly the relationships

ended and i'm like what and said oh well i was really unhappy well why don't you say anything. Yeah. Because maybe we could have talked about it. Yeah. I don't know what it is, Adam, but you've got, you've just got a really, and you'll hate this word, because it's a bit California and oversharey, but you've got a very tranquil, positive energy. Oh, that's very nice. You're very nice to be around. Oh, thanks. Well, I wish I could say the same for you. But you insulted my dog as soon as you got here, and you've been very passive aggressive ever since. So something you're going to have to work through with your therapist. No, it's really nice to, it's lovely to see you and I'm so glad that we're, you know, sometimes I look back on some of the friendships I formed back in the 90s when I was so over-excited to be in that world hobnobbing with celebrities and people on TV and people in bands.

And wearing maybe a jacket with some bleach jeans and a black t-shirt. Oh, all of that, yeah. And I do think, God, I was a bit of a shallow wazook. And maybe I, you know, just formed the wrong friendships and stuff. With the podcast, with all the stuff that you do, it feels like you've got a pretty nice cottage industry. Like the Adam Buxton brand is quite strong, I would say, right now. I have a sense from the messages people send me

that they like it and occasionally I'll get, you know, because the podcasts I do are hugely varied. Some are me just talking bullshit with Louis or with Joe or Garth, my friend. And then others are more straightforward. A Louis Theru trying to sing, which is to many people, one of the greatest moments ever on the podcast. Yeah, that's... Which is Louis Thruh trying to sing, yes, I can boogie.

And sort of thinking he's got a brilliant voice, but it's actually not that great. Although a few musicians have since told me, actually, he's got... The pitch is right. because I was teasing him and saying mate you're way off key and he's going yes sir I can boogie but I need a a satan song I can boogie boogie all night long and he holds the note for a long time and I was like wow that's awful but actually the musicians have since told me like no no he's

on he's on key he can sing but you know that's one of the two impressions I can do I can do an impression of Adrian Charles. All right, I'm mad how are you? I'll be down at about three o'clock, so I'll see you later. Now, back in a bit, we'll be catching up with some of the action down at the San Sado. So I'm proud of that. That's excellent. And then I can do, the second impression is Louis Thruh singing backerah.

Yeah. I mean, what jobs can I get on the strength of that? You could have your own podcast. Fantastic, I'm sorry. That's the way it's worked out. laughed our chat and I'm still I've still got an umbrella because it was raining earlier we got lucky and I'm using it look at the clouds Emily look at the Norfolk skies I mean you can't see this but I'm really sad for you they are billowing it's like a whole universe

it's like a whole other world up there suspended in the sky you can imagine living there houses and communities in the clouds you know like in have you read uh what's it called his dark materials. And his wife's in there. It's embarrassing. Have you read, yeah, just wondering. Yes. You know, Philip Pullman, yeah.

I'm still reading them to my daughter. And he talks about, you know, this other world suddenly becoming visible in the sky. And because they screw around with the gap between this world and another, they're suddenly able just to walk across a bridge and go to this world up there in the clouds. That's what it looks like. That's what we're looking at, listeners. Do you know what I would say? you've got 99 problems but if you ain't one.

Yeah. No, everything, you know. It's incredible here. Hashtag. Very blessed. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. And here's your doggy thought for the day. Dogs do speak, but only to those who know how to listen.

Of course, what they're generally saying is, you know it's 2017. Can we move on from this whole outside toilet thing, please? That's all for now. Remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes. Oh, my dog will cry.