Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Adam Buxton (Part Two)

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

We’re back in Acast Studios with the wonderful podcaster, writer and comedian Adam Buxton!While Raymond was enjoying the luxury of being in an air conditioned room on one of the hottest days of the year, we spoke to Adam about why he felt like it wasn’t a brave decision to walk away from his degree, how his wife feels about the fact that Adam has published some of their arguments in his book and we also read some golden showbiz advice…Get your copy of I Love You, Byeee - the long-awaited new memoir and follow-up to the bestselling Ramble Book here!You can listen to The Adam Buxton Podcast on all podcast platformsYou can listen to Emily on The Adam Buxton Podcast - from October 2019 hereYou can listen to Emily and Raymond’s first walk with Adam from July 2017 hereYou can keep up with all things Adam at https://www.adam-buxton.co.uk/ - including details of how you can pre-order a signed copy of Adam's upcoming album! A huge thank you to Lewis Lloyd at Acast Studios for his production support on this episode. Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Adam Buxton. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and do order a copy of Adam's brilliant book, I Love You, Bye, because it's a total joy of a read and you need it in your life. I'd also love it if you gave us a like and a follow, so you can catch us every week. Here's Adam and Ray Ray. I think what's interesting about your childhood

and your particular experience at private school, it's not dissimilar to mine in a way, because my dad was very similar to your dad. I think they inhabited very similar literary sphere. My dad was friends with John La Cary. We called him David too. And Lawrence van der Post. I actually, I was really sad my dad didn't meet your dad

because I think he would have been such a nice friend for him. I spoke in a very similar way, that sort of vernacular and that very formal and slightly verbose. But, you know, in a way that seems archaic now that someone would know that many words, you know. Can I ask you this as a sidebar, short one, if you were having a picnic on a hot day, would your dad ever say, Heavenly breeze? That was my dad's big one.

Heavenly breeze. Absolutely heavenly breeze. Lots of literary references. So if we're walking past an abandoned building, my dad would quote from Ozzymandias and say, look on my works, you mighty. And despair. Seagulls. And it was always like, and when I was with friends, imagine how embarrassing. It was like, oh my God, what are you even saying?

It's so awful. Osimandias, he's such a twat. Oh my God, I hate Ossimandias. Why your dad love Osseimandias so much? No one likes Alciamandias anymore. They haven't done for years. But just constant literary references, which now, and I suppose that's why I loved your book because it reminded me of that type of man who I actually have enormous affection for

now. At the time I didn't, you know, but I wonder if it feels like that was obviously a struggle financially for your parents to send you to that school. Yeah. And you were mixing with kids who were unusually privileged. Yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah. And I was in a similar situation in that we were sort of rich with books. You know, that's where my dad would always say, my books, I will leave you, my books. My sister was like, yeah, in a mountain of debts and your books, great. We're book rich. One of the things I certainly felt going to private school was because I knew it was

financially crippling my parents and I knew there was this big sacrifice. My dad had sort of pissed off by them. But my mom, exactly like you described, getting herself into debt, borrowing money. It was this whole thing of you're going to get educated. I don't care what it costs. But I think if there was a legacy from that, I did feel a lot of the time like I didn't fit in at all with those kids. And I was sort of cosplaying what it was like to live their existence.

I used to lie, actually. That's how I got through it. I lied and told a girl we had 17 rooms. And then I got myself, so I'd get myself into terrible. And then they'd say, can we come around to your? your house and I'd be, oh no, it can't right now. If we find out you haven't got a lift, Emily, we're going to be so fucking angry. But it puts it into perspective that I couldn't invite anyone around because I was ashamed

that we didn't have 17 rooms. Yeah, of course. And so... It is disgusting. I suppose that made... That's a bit triggering, actually. I suppose it made me... Well, the legacy of that was that feeling a little bit like in any social situation,

I go into it feeling a bit like I'm not enough or I've got something to hide or I'm not as good as the people in that room. Is that something you've ever had? Or do you have a different legacy from that, do you think? And if so, what is it? I feel that when I'm... I mean, I probably felt that more

when I was around at Jonathan Ross's house back in the day and there would be Ricky Javais and all these people that he'd had on his chat show. I felt that. felt like, oh, I don't think we really fit in here at all, me and Joe, because we would just rank amateurs. Our whole thing was like we were outsiders. We got in through the back door through kind of public access.

We weren't stand-ups. We weren't proper. So I did feel it then. I've never felt it about sort of posh people because I don't care. Like I wouldn't want that life, really. And I wouldn't want to be part of that world. I've got nothing against them. I know lots of them.

and they're very nice sometimes, sometimes not so much. I've met enough obnoxious, posh people that I've just thought, I'm not bothered about that at all, thank you. Yeah, yeah. So I never really had that then. Have you read The Kellaby Code by Johnny Sweet? Do you know who I mean by Johnny Sweet? No, because you had Johnny Sweet on your podcast recently.

Yeah, and we were talking all about this, actually. He's written a book that's all about this. And it's all about like a My Dad type character who wants to belong to this world and be accepted by the people in this world because it's so, I mean, he just aspires to all the accoutrement, the houses and the traditions and the way they talk and everything about it. It's like there's rules because, you know, at the end of the day, that's all anyone wants is they want things to make sense.

And in this guy's mind, this world makes sense of all these well-educated, posh people with their lovely house and and he dreams of one day being a proper part of this world. Anyway, it's good. It's like a thriller and it's quite extreme. It's a sort of satire. It's quite funny. And I really liked it. And there was loads of things in there that resonated for that reason.

I'm definitely going to read that. Anything with a slight saltburn, Nick Carraway. I mean, these are people identify with. Yeah, yeah. I think so. It was all that kind of stuff. But I'm not tortured by that very much, I don't think. I don't think. I was so glad you didn't. You walked away from your degree. Oh, yeah. Simply because I felt that took a lot of balls to do that. And you'd ended up going to Warwick to do English and American Studies or something, wasn't it? Yeah. And I'm actually really impressed by people that walk away from degrees. I think it takes guts. Because I think I think.

I think there's so much, particularly about there in societal pressure as well. It's like, this is what you do. You've had all this money spent on your education. Again, in your biopic, I think that's a key moment for you. Oh, yeah. You could definitely play it like I'm a brave genius. But the truth would be that I was just a willful pratt who would not be told. That is the truth.

Also, I was in love. You were. I wanted to go back and carry on being in love. This is true. But it didn't work. out because she was like, oh no, I thought you'd gone to university. I was ready for that to be the end of the being in love bit. We had fun. It was a really fun summer and then you go to university. But then you wouldn't have ended up with the best woman in the world.

That's true. And I would be gutted. I haven't really hang out with you. I should make it clear. I wasn't, I wasn't in love with the person who is now my wife. I was in love with another person. Because I met you around the time you were meeting your wife. Yes, that's right. In the kind of towards the end of the 90s. And I just had very good energy from her the minute I met her. Oh, yeah, good. So did I. I just thought, oh, this.

Oh, this is the one. Yeah. It was a very strong feeling. And she's still the one. You know what? All right, Shania. I've said a few times. Is that your song?

Yeah. I've said a couple of times in a way that I worry sounds a bit triumphalous or ungrateful to my parents, that I'm really happy to be married. and happily married at a point when my parents were not at all. Yeah. And they really, at this point in their marriage, I mean, next year will be our 25th anniversary. And at that point, they were in real trouble. And I feel bad for them, and I wish it hadn't worked out that way.

But part of their problem was that they just didn't want to talk about it. And I'm sure it was, I mean, they had issues, they had problems that we don't have to deal with. Whereas you write about your rouse in your book. I know, for example, that one revolved around the fact that Sell refused to wear a crown from a Christmas cracker on Christmas Day. Yes, which I just thought was like, everyone else is wearing the whole point of the crown is that it's a fun leveller. And to not wear the crown when everyone else is wearing the crown on Christmas Day is just a bit of noxious. way to make sure that happens is to bully people aggressively and to wearing it, I find. And then write about it in the book.

Anyway, well, she put her foot down and I realised that obviously it was not an important thing. But it's like with all those arguments, you know, it's you're ratty around something else. And then the crown, refusing to put the crown on is like, that's the final straw. And that becomes the focus of the argument. But actually, there's other stuff bubbling away. I mean, the arguments in the book are real. They are presented for comedy purposes. My wife knows about them.

She understands that they're in there. I checked with her that it was okay. But still... And she's a lawyer. And she's a lawyer. Exactly. But still, she hadn't read the whole book before it was published. I did say that she should.

She didn't. And now she has been reading it. And there were a couple of things in there that she wasn't pleased with. Just the way that I'd phrased things. Really? Yeah. Did you change it? It had been published by that point.

She's reading the published version. That's all we've got time for. It was really bad. It was really bad. I felt really awful because I was like, ah, okay, you're right. Was it just the way you talked about your relationship or, as you say, the way you'd phrased? It was like a couple of lies. It was the way I'd phrased a couple of things that I'd phrased.

thought was a sort of self-deprecating joke or a joke about me being a dick. But she's like, I don't think that's how it comes across. It comes across like you're scoring a point on some level at my expense. And I was like, uh-huh, okay, maybe you're right. And I'm sorry. And that's why you should have read the book. So really it's your fault. Because I did say. First casualty of memoir. Yeah. Your family. Your family. No, it was bad. I, I just waited until mine weren't around anymore. It was much easier. Yeah. Did you ever have any problems with any stuff? No, because mine were all dead. Right.

I just think possibly we're not designed to read about ourselves. Yeah, I know. And it is a kind of a power move to be the one doing the memoir. Do you know what I mean? It is, I would say, an aspect of maybe, I'm not saying that this is the case for everyone who writes a memoir. Definitely not you. I'm sure it will be. But it is an aspect of a controlling personality to want to write a memoir, to want to be the one that sets down the story. This is how it happened. And you can make all the concessions you want, like as I hope I do. It is just my point of view.

My memory is definitely fallible. There's definitely things in the book that I already regret and that have turned out to be factually wrong as well. Just details, small details about my mum and things like that that I don't think affect the whole thing. but still, you know, it is inherently, it's an exercise that's fraught with all kinds of complications and fallibilities. So I do feel like Joe has been really nice about it. You know what I mean? Because he's human and he definitely has his perspective on how things went down and what our friendship has been like and what I have been like as a friend. but he is so

I think he's kind of happy that I've done it I've written the book about our TV show and things like that because I think well he probably wouldn't have had the time but well you do talk and I actually love the way you talk about your relationship in the book because you're very honest about it in a way that a lot of people wouldn't be I don't think would go there. And you also discussed the reasons why, when you did have that creative tension,

why you think that was. And you say when you were making, it's fascinating for me being such a fan of it at the time, seeing what was, how it sort of evolved. And as you said, it started through this idea of public access television. It was almost like this idea, the first example of the public being content creators. And that was takeover TV and it turned into the Adam and Joe show. I found it so interesting those creative tensions you write about you saying that you felt more beta. Oh yeah, yeah. Definitely junior partner. Why did you feel that? I mean, I think that that's just the natural dynamic for a close friendship is someone is the alpha and someone is the beta.

And I kind of was that guy. I was younger, six months younger. And when we became friends, when we were 13, that's quite a lot, six months. Joe was taller. I mean, I really think that that is a significant factor. He was taller and I was shorter and I was self-conscious about my height. I think it's definitely something that I've ended up being friends and married two tall people, friends with and married two tall people. So all these things are feeding into your idea of your idea of your. yourself, I suppose. So by the time we started working together, plus Joe was always very confident

and self-assured, quite cocky and, you know, whereas I defined myself more by being a little anxious. And, you know, I had my confident, funny friends like Joe and Louie, with whom I didn't really discuss kind of emotional matters. We just, we just would hang out and it would be non-stop bands or talking about films or whatever, mainly films. And then I had another gang of friends who were my kind of emotional friends. And we would sit around and talk about heartbreak and... Your emo friends. Emo friends.

Patrick was Patrick and Mark, they were kind of my emo friends. And Patrick... Is that Mark Sainsbury? Yeah, yeah. Oh, I like the sound of him. He's nice. Do I sound like your mother? Sure, yeah.

My mum, yeah, he's a lovely man. That Sainsbury, boy. He is a lovely boy. And Patrick, we got a job together as busboys in a pizza restaurant after we left school and had a great summer bonding and hanging out and working really hard and watching a lot of Woody Allen movies. The BBC had a season of Woody Allen. I just like to apologize. Yeah, I know.

It's not. I always feel like I do need to apologize. What do we do at? Apologize. It was 1988. It was a different time. Would our, my producer, who's, how old do you? 29.

29, okay. Would you watch a Woody Allen film? Probably not. I mean, I haven't seen one in a while. Do you know what our parents would have said? I promise I haven't seen one in a while. I haven't thought about him in ages. Do you know what our dads would say?

Think on. Think on. Does that mean? Think on it. Think on it and change your mind? Well, they were, the old posh. were very into dropping S's and T's. I remember my friends Barister father saying,

I'm not a Guinness. And I thought, oh yeah, I know who you are and I like it. Now, I only mention Woody Allen because, you know, in those days, in the uncontroversial or relatively uncontroversial phase in his creative life and career, he was a rallying point for the kind of insecure nerd people. Like the beaters, that was his whole persona was a kind of nebish, loserish guy who didn't always do well with women. I mean, that wasn't the whole story.

Anyway, that's another whole podcast talking about what Woody Allen stood for in those days. But certainly that's what I liked. I like the idea of people who weren't smashing it and who were heartbroken and were, not doing as well as the people around them or were slightly loserish. You know, I felt like that was my crowd. And I liked that crowd because I didn't really like the insufferable, super successful, boisterous, super confident people. That's not how I thought of Joe and Louie, by the way.

But when we were doing the TV show together, I really felt like Joe had it all sorted. People like Joe and Louie had it all sorted. And I didn't really know exactly where I fitted. I was just very self-conscious and uncomfortable in my own skin in a way that they weren't. And so I really envied that. And then essentially we ended up doing the Adam and Joe show because of me, because I'd got the job on takeover TV. So it was a strange thing that suddenly it was like, well, I, this is my thing.

I created this, you know. And I got Joe involved. but and he said when I invited him to get involved he said I'll work with you I'm not going to work for you it's fair enough that's a really important thing you've got to like lay down the ground rules but actually we should have laid down more ground rules because it was still not quite clear who was I think someone needs to steer the ship and actually I was thinking okay we can do this it can be totally egalitarian, but there were too many unresolved alpha-beta issues bubbling away, and they would get in the way occasionally.

There's an example of a fax which Joe once sent you. Oh, yeah. Which is sort of, you've gone into meetings with the head of the production company, I think. Yeah, with Fenton. And it was a very long development period that we were going through. after doing takeover TV and Channel 4 had said, why don't you and Joe do a show? We're like, huh, okay, yes, that would be amazing. And then they said, well, come up with some ideas.

So we spent months and months, maybe like over a year or something, working on a second series of takeover TV, but at the same time writing all these pitch documents and proposals about what's our show going to be. All the while, I was thinking, I've got no idea what our show is going to be. was not confident that we had any kind of proper ideas. But you're the warrior in the partnership, aren't you? Yeah, well, I think we were both warriors. To be fair to Joe, he has made it clear since. Like, he was also worrying, but he just was less kind of flappy about it, perhaps. And my flappiness manifested itself sometimes in phoning up the producer,

the guy that ran the production company, they were based in L.A. And checking in and any news from Channel 4? And what did you think of that last pitch? And how do you think the ideas are coming along? And I would put myself down a lot. I'd be like, oh, no, yeah, probably not. I mean, we're rubbish. We're always come up with it.

We're crap. It's probably a crap idea. Things like that. And half being a bit pushy and, you know, sort of going, well, you know, be really good to get an answer because, you know, we can go elsewhere. We can always. And then half like. It's like an absolute nightmare date. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, it was. It was too much. It was like I was overamped. having been convinced that I would never make anything of myself and never have any job other than being a bartender, which would have been fine. But suddenly it was like, oh, no, you might be able to do your own TV show.

Yeah, I got really overtweaked. And then after one of these phone calls that I'd made to L.A., when Joe was in the room, he sent me this fax, which was all these like bits of showbiz advice. I've kind of learned it off by heart. Oh, yeah. Well, it ends with, you know, I'm off to go and teach my grandma how to sock eggs or something. Yes, that's right.

And one of the pieces of advice is he's essentially saying if you sound nervous, they'll feel nervous, was one of his bits of advice. Are you looking at up there? Yeah. Oh, let's dig it out. Ad, here's some golden showbiz rules that I know you know already, but I want to say for the hell of it. One, never do yourself down. There's no shortage of people who'll do that for you. Two, confidence breeds confidence.

If we worry, they'll worry. Three, finally, in the words of the Jackson Five on maybe tomorrow, My Beautiful Bird, you have flown away. I held you too tight, I can see. For Beautiful Bird, read TV show. Be easygoing. I should say at that point that was him being funny. I don't think you seriously thought that was an inspiring thing to quote.

kind of. Be easygoing at all times. That's why they chose us in the first place. The bottom line is this, to come up with the goods, with minimum fuss and maximum quality. That's all we have to worry about. I say all this only because Fenton, our producer, sounded a bit like, what are they calling me for today? We should know exactly what we want to ask and put it succinctly when we call them. After all, who knows how busy and pissed off with other things they might be when we call. Now I'm off to teach my granny to suck eggs. So when I got, I remember getting that fax and initially being quite angry. What do you think if you got that fax? I would have been livid. Why would you have been livid? Because I think I would have, if I'd have felt he was right, that would have made me angry.

Yeah. And it's only through about 10 years of therapy that I've realized your first reaction is not, is very rarely your genuine reaction, your real reaction. The first response is not your authentic response because it's your ego messing with you. So I would have got that and thought, how dare he and gone mad and slagged him off to everyone? And then the next day, I would have woken up and thought, oh shit, I think he might be right. Well, that's sort of how it happened, except instead of next day, 25 years later Yeah, I think I was When I got it, I just thought

What? I just thought like, especially the bit about Don't do yourself down. I just thought we both do that. That's our whole M.O. That's the Gen X start. We're the loser gang. That's what we're like.

We put ourselves down. And we do it consciously or unconsciously because it's a defense mechanism. It's like, this is the accepted defense mechanism that we all use. Why are you suddenly calling me out for using the accepted defense mechanism? And we say things like, nah, and only completely. And then we would go, you know, we'd go on and we'd do press for the show when it came out. And all we did was put ourselves down and say, oh, yeah, we're crap and this is crap and that's crap.

But he was right, of course, that's the thing. And it's like, they were all good bits of advice. But at the time I wasn't ready to hear them really. And it just, it's like there's a motif in the book about getting advice and about my inability to take it. Also, I do believe that it's impossible to actually respond in the moment to good advice. Don't you reckon? Because essentially what most advice is when it boils down to it. it is like be a different person.

Have you tried being a different person? What about that? You know, that thing you always screw up? Here's what you could do, be someone else that doesn't screw that thing up. That's essentially what advice is, unless it's absolutely practical. You know, like if we're talking about practical solutions to writing or whatever it might be, like, oh, try switching that around or that kind of advice, yeah, great. But if it's like on the level of don't do yourself down, or if,

It's like, relax, be yourself, try and enjoy it, stuff like that that people sometimes say, which is very well meant and true. It's like, yeah, that would be great if I could do that. But the problem is I can't. Yes, I think also adds, I feel sometimes, so, thanks Skinner, who's, you know, I work with and is a good mate of mine. I think what I like about him is he gives very good advice. It's quite tough sometimes.

You know, he gives very honest, truthful advice, but only when it's asked for. And I think my boundary is unsolicited advice. So if someone is constantly, if the friendship starts to tip over where the friendship essentially consists of them ringing me, saying, thinking they've turned into some sort of informal life accountability coach or life coach, that makes me feel very uncomfortable. I've known people that do do that. saying, what about have you done this? Why haven't you bought this? You should be investing in this. You should be doing that. You're not married yet. Why haven't you done that? And I sort of feel

that's, that's no longer advice that's sort of making you feel better about your life. If I can just point out what she hasn't done with her life, I don't have to hear the lambs screaming. It's very tricky, isn't it? Because it should be possible to take advice in the spirit in which it was given and not feel threatened by it and be able to act on it, even though the person giving that advice may be absolutely in need of some advice themselves. That's the problem I have sometimes, or at least I used to have, before I became enlightened. Such a change man now. So, so nice and changed.

But your relationship with Joe, the very fact that he can read that book, and I feel you can sort of laugh at, you know, aspects of the way you've portrayed your relationship, in it says a lot. And I think that's possibly always been the kind of spine of your relationship is that shared sense of humour and those shared values in a way. You know, you see the world through a very similar prism. I think so. Also, it is very, I fundamentally love him and I fundamentally trust him. And I hope he feels the same way about me. So I do think it's funny when he slags me off. And even though there are things that I'm sure are infuriating to each of us about the other, I don't mind as long as we're getting on.

I think I love it when he's rude. Well, you talk about, and I love this, the wobbly voice moments. Oh, yeah. And you have a lot of those with Joe. Do you want to just explain what a wobbly voice situation is? I sort of assumed everyone had that. But, well, what I mean by wobbly voice is, you know, if you're the kind of person like me that gets very anxious in moments of confrontation, then your voice starts to go because your breathing goes weird because you're so keyed up that I have a physical reaction to any kind of confrontation. So my breathing starts to go and I'm kind of almost shaking.

And then you can hear it in my voice and you can't really control how you're speaking so much. So that's an exaggerated version of it. But it's more or less like that. So we'd have like very wobbly conversations when things would go wrong. They weren't very often. Most of the time we'd just try and shove things down and not deal with them. But on the few occasions that we did like, where it was. like, this is ridiculous.

We've got to clear the air. It would be well wobbly. And I still, in awe of people who aren't like that and who can have conversations without apparently getting really rattled. And also, like, on YouTube and things like that, when I see people getting into, like, political people and if they're having political rows, I'm like, how are they doing that without getting the wobbly voice? Like, if I was, you know, Zelensky and Trump.

How's Zelensky not getting maximum wobbly voice there? He really is in a position where he could be forgiven for having it. I relate to that. And I look at people I respect around me, like people like Jonathan Ross and Frank, who really don't fear confrontation in the slightest. And I really... Have you ever seen them rattled? Have you ever seen Jonathan rattled?

I think they just... Possibly I have, but I don't think it would manifest itself in their sort of physicality in the way that you're saying it doesn't it. And I definitely feel that. In my case, I cry and I feel the tears coming. And it was only again a therapist who said, you know, that's anger. And because women have been taught that it's unlady like an unfeminine to express anger, that's why nine times out of ten when you're crying, you're absolutely livid about something. You're not upset at all. supposed to do, though, in those moments? Did they give you any hacks? Absolutely not. No, what I tend to do, it's really difficult when I'm, because I often feel that. It's the injustice of the situation. Yeah, it's like, it's feeling misunderstood. I had it the other day. Someone said something to me. It was a comic, very nice man, but he said something that I felt was very misogynistic in a situation where I couldn't reply. Was it me? As if. We were in a situation where there were other comedians there. I was the only woman there.

And I don't think he meant it. I think he was sort of just thought he was being bansy. And I felt my voice, I was wobbly voice ads. But I thought I was going to cry. And I thought, I can't cry. That'll be so unprofessional. What am I going to do? I feel really humiliated.

I feel humiliated. And so I just was looking down. I was just staring down. I thought pasting on this smile, but I could feel myself about to cry. Oh my God. You've just described my experience of being on, never mind the bus cox for the first time.

That's exactly what it was like. You don't really like going on panel shows, do you? No. Isn't that weird? This super confident alpha guy who's so great with confrontation doesn't like going on being filmed on a panel show. So you dislike Never Mind the Buzzcox. Yeah, I hated the first time I went on there back in the Mark Lamar era.

And it was Mark Lamar was the home. and Sean Hughes was one of the team captains, and I was with Phil Jupiter's. And it was so bare pity. And it hadn't even occurred to me. This was about 99 or something, towards the end of us doing the Adam and Joe show. Maybe we'd just stop doing it.

And so they just did a load of jokes about me being posh. It was all just jokes about You're So Posh. I just didn't, it didn't even occur. occur to me that that's what was going to happen. And it's like, okay, yeah, fair enough, but I don't know how to deal with this. And I was really rattled. And I kind of laughed it off, but I didn't have any, I just didn't have any game. Zero game. And so you, you describing the fixed grin. That's all I could do. It's like, it's just down your bedding field. I've got to get through this.

Yeah, got to get through. And also, I drank about four peronis before going on in the green room. Because back then I still associated being on TV with a special treat. I thought, this is fun. Ooh, it's a special fun day. I'm on telly. I'll have four peronies to celebrate. And then I'll go on.

And then Mark Lamar will make a load of jokes about, did you have to, were you the one in charge of leading the swans across Westminster Bridge? And, you know, it's all funny stuff. But I was like, and I just grinned away and they, and didn't say anything funny at all, except for the stuff that they, you know, like you're sat in the green room for three hours beforehand with two writers sitting over in a corner bantering amongst themselves and you're expected to write down all the funny things that they say. I don't know if that's how they still do those shows, but that's how they work. I think so, yeah. in those days. They just get two writers. Frank says people who use that, you know, he says that's like drugs cheats in sports.

Yeah. Frank says, that's like taking, that's like a drug cheat. He said, I'm there, the only athlete who's not refusing to dope. And now I'm next to six other guys in the lane. And they're all doped up to their eyeballs. The writers. Well, they had writers like that for the non-comedian participants. Of course. So I was in the green room with mid-year. But I felt like, I'm not a stand-up, you know. But you've got very funny bones. Oh, yeah, very funny. But that's a different gig, isn't it? Like you say, like, you say, like, have I got news? You did that.

Oh, my God. Good or bad? All the trauma, all the tall coming back to me. That was even worse than never mind the buzzcocks. At least it never mind the buzzcocks. I said a couple of things that the writers had said. And me and me and midge you were like trying to write it down before the other one. Like looking over at each other's notebooks.

I'm not having that one. I'm having that fucking junk midgey. And then I said the joke before mid-year did in the show. And at least I got one laugh that wasn't even written by me. Have I got news? Have I got news for you? I was on Ian Hizlop's team. Was he nice?

He was nice, yeah. But I could tell. He took one look at me and thought, you shouldn't be on this show. No. Because, you know, I didn't read the papers. So I was sort of aware of the news a little bit in those days. I watched the news on TV every now and again, but I didn't regularly read the papers in those days.

Do you think it's also more, I think it's more that your humour is very, I don't think your comic energy. I'm going to sound like your dad now, because I think he did predict you shouldn't have gone on, have I gotten news for you. He said it's exactly the sort of show for which you are peculiarly ill-suited. It's full of people being very witty, which is not what you're good at at all.

That's what he said the night before. I kind of love him. But I do think, as it's, you're so hilarious, but that's a very particular type of humour. It doesn't mean it's funnier. And I sometimes, I don't understand why people would do that, why they would want to do it. It's that shooting from the hit mock the week style, isn't it?

Yeah. And that's never been. No, I mean, it's quick wits. Yeah. That's what it is. At least, brilliant, had it. And Frank's great. You know, that's how they're very funny in that.

way, but it's, if you don't want to be funny in that way. Oh, I would like to be funny in that way. I'd love to. But I think I thought that, I don't know, I think I thought I could get by on charm. I don't know what I thought. But I thought, oh, well, they've invited me on. They must, they must think that I'm a nice guy to have around or that I would do well. But knew it was pretty hardcore. And Ian Hislop said, he said one bit of advice. Before you went on, this was. More advice, yeah. One bit of advice.

Get in there quite early because what happens is that sometimes people are waiting for a space to say something. And then before you know it, half an hour's gone by and you haven't said anything. And that's exactly what happened. Because you're there and you're like, oh, a month have I got news for you? There's Paul Martin over there. Oh, look, it's the audience. And then suddenly half an hour's gone. And you've literally, all you've done is sat there grinning and going, well, I'm got anything to say.

I mean, I'm not going to make a joke because what hazel blears? I don't even know who hazel blears is, let alone make a joke about hazel blears. So I'll just wait until I've got something. And then that time never comes. And then you think, shit, I haven't said anything. And like we've done half the show. I'm just going to have to say something. I'm going to have to say something.

Yeah, I said something too. It's just awful. Silly. Well, they had a video round and it was some footage of Gordon Brown. And you remember Gordon Brown does that weird little twitch with his mouth. Oh, yes. And so I said, there's Gordon Brown. He's doing his blowjob face.

Does he get a laugh? No. I think maybe I got a groan even from the audience. I mean, there was total silence. You know, it's awful. When you go cheap and you don't even get a laugh. Don't even get a laugh. Because the point of going cheap is it's, you know what, I'm desperate for the laugh now.

Yeah, just something. Like I said blowjob, give me a laugh. But I think the slightly classier audience, I think, goes to that. I tried to do a pilot for a panel show once and it was the worst experience of my life. And I thought I'm never doing this again. And I just couldn't. And they were pretty desperate for women at the time. So, you know, but I just thought, I could have probably got the old one, but it was like,

I cannot put myself through this again. It was horrendous. And I wonder, you and I have both admitted to being people pleasers. I think the whole nature of those shows is gladiatorial in a way. It's about prioritising your material and your performance over the atmosphere in the room. And if you're not prepared to do that, you may as well, you're never going to thrive in those environments. Because I think you would always prioritize the atmosphere in the room. I'm not saying one is better than the other. Sure. No, I think, but I don't have material. That's the thing,

is I just want to have a, I just want to have a fun chat with people. So that's why I've ended up in. You don't tell jokes in that traditional sense of the word. But what we were saying, earlier on about not feeling like you belong in a kind of status heavy environment. Yeah. That's how I would feel in those places. I just felt like I don't belong here and I'm not like these people and I can't do what they do and also they're thinking, what's that guy doing here? And I always remember one time and I won't mention any names except for the Uber name drop

of being at Jonathan and Jane's house. to Jonathan Ross's house, where there were always so many funny people around. But I do remember one time one of the people there came over to me and looked at someone else who had been invited who'd never been there before, another younger comedian. And this person said to me, what's he doing here? I.e. like, he doesn't deserve to be here. He's not in the pantheon.

He's not one of the super comedians. Like, he hasn't earned his place there. And it was just a reminder that, oh my God, people are thinking. this shit all the time. People are looking down their nose and going, you don't belong. You know what our mum's told us? Don't be silly. No one's talking about you. Exactly. They were lying. They are talking about you. They're not jealous. They are looking down their nose on you. You do look stupid. You have made a fool of yourself and no one will ever forget it. And you don't belong. So get out. Talking of your mom, I know I've got to, I could honestly

talk to you for hours. But could people listen. I think they could to you. You buckles. Okay. And they do, as we know. You talked about your dad a lot more, as I said in your last book. And it's very moving and kind of really upsetting, actually, you know, obviously when you lose him. But I felt with your mum, I don't think I realized. You were cheering.

No, I wasn't cheering. I don't, I'm going to really do this morning gear shift now. Okay. I knew your mama died And you told me a bit Obviously I've seen you since then I don't think I realised how traumatic The actual incident was

And we don't have to go into the details of it Obviously, but It was, it felt quite raw And it was at your home And you felt a bit helpless And yeah, totally helpless Yeah And I just

That really made me sort of Cry actually reading that Because I didn't know you'd gone through that And Oh yeah, but I don't think Yeah, it was really shocking. I wasn't prepared for it. That was the thing.

Yeah. I didn't think she was going to die when she did. She went downhill in the lockdown. She was tough. She would say, I'm fine. You worry too much every time I would phone up. Did she have still, because your mom was Chilean, wasn't she? Yeah.

Did she have a Chilean or Spanish? Did she have an accent? No, no. She had a very upper middle class British accent that she had cultivated. and she was, you know, she was a tough Tory lady and no moaning and no self-indulgent whining and chin up and keep calm, carry on. And so when I would phone up and go, how are you doing, mum, knowing that actually she'd been going downhill for a few years, she had a tumour on her skull and I think it was affecting her

memory. She'd already had breast cancer and kind of bounced back from that. and she was a trooper, but I wish she had been a little more. And the other thing was that she didn't want to be a burden. That was the main thing. She doesn't want to be a burden. She's from a generation that thinks what you do is you do everything you absolutely can for your children, get them out of the nest, and then leave them alone.

Let them have their own life, see them on special occasions, birthdays and Christmases. But other than that, you just get out of their way. I think that was her idea. Yeah. And so, which I kind of went along with, I suppose. I just didn't question it, really. But then by the time the lockdown happened, it was clear to me that she should be living with us. Either she should be in care or she should be with us.

And I said, come and live with us. I bet she would always say, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I thought it was wonderful that you let Nigel live with you. and that was a wonderful thing to have done, but I don't, you don't need to do that with me. I was like, oh, it'd be nice, you know, come on.

Anyway, when the lockdown happened, I thought, well, this is it. She's definitely got to now because I don't think she can look after herself. And I was getting calls from her neighbors and her solicitor saying, oh, her memory's pretty bad. She's repeating herself a lot.

So anyway, but I did thithered, and I definitely absorbed all the vibes in that first lockdown about people sticking to the rules, and the shame and the approbation poured on people who, any kind of infractions. Do you remember the atmosphere was really febrile in every considerable way? I'm very frightened of authority as well. Yeah. The public mood around that time was like, you better not break the rules or we're going to get you.

Everyone was going to get you. The cops were going to get you for walking on that heath or whatever. In Spain, they were sending drones out and saying... I felt a bit vigilante. You are under arrest for breaking the lockdown rule. All this kind of stuff, you know. And I was, you know, I was following the rules. I was like, yes, you should follow the rules.

So what I'm waffling on about is that it didn't feel like you could, if you were going to break the rules, you better have a pretty good reason. And my mum was saying, no, you shouldn't break the rules. Don't come and visit me. Don't come and collect me. There's no reason. It's not an emergency. And it really was an emergency.

She wasn't doing well. and by the time I finally got there after someone had phoned me up and said I just found your mum kind of wandering around in waitrose confused it was sort of too late really and I thought that I took her straight to the hospital in Norwich and she was in there for a week but then they discharged her and I sort of thought well if they're discharging her then she's going to be on the mend but then she died the following night and so it such a, it was really a shock. And it just made me feel like a tool. You know, I just thought, fucking hell, I really dropped that ball every step of the way, you know. And yeah, I felt

I'd let her down. I don't think you let her down, but I understand why you feel that. Yeah. I think it's pretty common to feel that. And I think when you lose a parent, it's tough anyway. But there is something about having them in hospital. which allows you to feel, which happened in both my cases, it was out of my hands. Yeah, exactly. You know, and even with my sister, it's like I couldn't have done anything. I think it's very tough. Just having that thing of your parents literally being on your manner, as it were,

I can see that would be complicated, you know. Yeah. I mean, it was weird. It was like, I think she sort of checked out. Yeah. I think she just thought, well, no, I'm not going to stick around. I'm not going to have you look after me for five, ten years of whatever it might be. She's like, no, I'm off.

It was funny. The first time you came on this podcast, I remember talking to you about therapy. And this is the sort of holding you to account bit because I remember I was having it and was a little bit evangelical. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a slightly irritating degree, if I'm really honest, which you often are when you've recently, when you've just started doing it. You went all-American. I'm a bit long in the tooth now and hardened to. But yeah, I remember you were just not being critical,

but you were just saying, isn't it just you're blaming everyone else for, actually a little critical? Isn't it just you're blaming everyone else for all your problems? Isn't it? You saying, oh, well, it's because of my mother and it's because of my father. I think when I guessed it on your podcast, we talked about it. If I said that, I'm sure I said it in a slightly more friendly ways. You did.

I hope. I'm intentionally paranoid. phrasing for comic reasons. You didn't say that at all. I think anyone listening to a Buckles interview is confident enough in what a fundamentally decent person you are to know there's some comic license taking place in. Yes. But I remember saying to you, I pointed, we were in your dad's study and I, as I call it, was his flat and it became, it was your study and it became your dad's flat in Norfolk. And I remember pointing at the door saying, you know, if you were going to paint over that door and you continue to paint layers over it, you know what you'd actually

need to do is sand it down in order to repaint it properly. So it was going to survive. And I remember having this conversation, you said, yeah, I'm just not sure I can ever get on board with therapy. So I just want to check in with you now. Do you still feel that way? Yes and no. I had therapy. after my mum died, I felt like I definitely needed to do something because I felt like I was in a really bad place. And every morning I'd wake up with a real knot and just feel so bad to the core, you know, like upset and sad and full of self-reproach and just dread. Like, you know, you're waking up and you're like, here we go. And I just thought, that's not a good feeling. That shouldn't be normal. day after day.

And so I had therapy, a friend of mine, recommended someone, and we did it online because it was still lockdown. And actually, I regret that. It's not as good online. No. I think it would have been... It's like podcasts. Yeah, yeah.

I agree. I really do. I mean, that's not to say it can't ever be beneficial. I think it definitely helped me. But I do, I think the reason I stopped, well, the reason I stopped was because I felt better after a while. But, and I've looked into doing it again since. Okay. But it hasn't happened.

The thing that I was looking for was CBT. Yes. And I couldn't find anyone. A lot of men want that. Yeah, yeah. Why do you say that? Because they do. Why do you think that is?

Because I think men, and I'm sorry to suggest there are only two. But I think men tend to be more solution-driven. So how do I fix this? And we all know this because this happens a lot in relationships, doesn't it? I just wanted to tell you what was happening. Why? What's the point of that? I'm providing you with a solution.

Give me a strategy to make this work, Liz. Shut up, shut up about my feeling. Shut up, shut up, just tell me what to do in steps, bullet points if you could. Thank you. That's what I wanted. I've had to say that to male friends. And I've had to point it out. And in fact, Jonathan Ross, who I adore,

because he's so evolved and he does listen. I remember I was saying something. I was unhappy with something. And I remember telling him. And he said, you've told us this before. What you need to do is this. I've told you. Blah, blah, blah.

And I said, I feel like you're invalidating my feelings when you say that. And Jane's saying, why she's telling us this is because she wants to share this with us. her family and she's saying this is how I feel and our role is to say I'm so sorry you feel that way and we're here for you and just to listen you should effectively be the ancient mariner allowed to tell your tale as many times as you like but I think I understand there's no point to doing that for men so I think with therapy the idea of just going there to discuss this ad for an item without where's the solution at the end where's the ending if you like where's the climax yeah when do I feel good?

To be really crude about it, we go the long journey and we're there for the journey. When will we get to the point of this? That is why you want CBT. Yeah, I think you're probably right. But, ads, I'm going to have to let you go soon, but what a joy it is. I feel very relaxed with you. Why are you so relaxing to talk to? Well, that's nice of you.

I mean, I don't think everyone would find me relaxing. Who wouldn't? My wife No, I'm joking She definitely would I love you so much Sarah You took me and your wife to see Cabaret Hey, that was a good time

That was the last time I saw you properly That's the beginning of last year It showed me a fabulous side to you Which I hadn't really seen before Jazz hands It was a bit I loved it It was a bit flashy

That first and last time for It was a big birthday It was a big birthday And you got us a box at Cabaret And we had a fabulous time. Self-esteem was the reason I went there was because I was going to interview self-esteem and she was playing the lead role. That was it. Sally Potter was it?

Sally Bowles. What did you call her Sally Potter? It sounds like definitely a 70s actress. She's a writer, I think. Maybe I can't remember. No, that's Linda Lee Potter. Oh, whatever. I can't end like this.

Harry Potter. I can't end with you saying Sally Potter. But no, it was fun. You're an intelligent cultured man. Why did you think what side of my... What side of myself? This is a robot voice I'm doing, listeners. By the way, if you think I'm doing some weird, unspecific racial caricature, it's not.

It's supposed to be a robot. What side of myself did you see that you were surprised by? I'm going to have CBT. What I liked was there was a munificence about you. You were a bit... It's not a word that has been applied to me before. Exactly. But there was something very large scale.

And, you know, there's a story, in fact, Jonathan tells about being out with Telly Silvallis, of course. Cojack. Yeah. Who said, who used to say, if Telly's holding, we're all holding about money, basically. Oh, okay, not drugs. No. It could well have been. Actually, now I'm thinking about it.

I think Jonathan might have been very naive. But if telly's holding, we're all holding. I felt you were very, if telly's holding were all holding. Oh, yeah. I just felt you had the evening under control. It was great. I loved it. Yeah, man.

Oh, it was good. That was good fun. I felt like I'm 55. I'm a lucky guy. I'm privileged. I got square space in my pocket. And let's get a box for cabaret. And here's.

to Squarespace. If you want to build a website, here is a very simple way to do it that will yield excellent and professional looking results. Sorry, can I just check? Does this conflict with any of our brands currently? Add, what an absolute joy. And thank you, Ray's fallen asleep. We haven't done much dog content, but who needs it with you? Sure. I'm like a dog myself. It's better than interviewing Tom Hanks. Wow. It depends. But have you enjoyed seeing him? There's a snake in my boot.

It's like, it's the same as being with Tom Hanks essentially. It's lovely to see Ray so beautiful. What do you think about Ray's energy? I love it, man. I can relate to it. It's very like Rosie's energy, to be honest. Yeah. It's like, let's find a nice bit of ground to lie on and get with that.

We haven't got those, you know, some people have those dogs. that are a bit like the very over keen panellists on Walk the Week. Yes. I don't want to. How old is Ray now? Ray is eight, nearly nine. All right. He's getting old.

Getting a little mature. What advice would you give for him an old age? You give some of this advice. You're often doing these in your book. What advice would you give, for those of us getting older ads? Because I know your dad gave a lot of advice. Oh, man. Avoid situations where you're asked for advice.

And he kind of points. podcast. I went on Kirsty Young's Young Again. Yeah, and your dad would have been so thrilled by that. He would have been, but not by how I handled the, what advice would you give your younger self section? What did you say? I mean, I floundered. And I think she said, oh, don't worry, we can cut that bit. Even though it's kind of the main part of the podcast, I think they couldn't cut that bit because it was like, well, this is all building up to this moment where you suddenly share your pearls of wisdom.

And I was like, oh, um, what did you say wear sunscreen? It was, I couldn't even summon that. I was just like, oh, talk things through where you can. Have a chat. Okay. Thank you very much to my guest, Adam Berkston. Next week. Someone better.

I bet it was the next week. I think it was the last show of that series. She never did. She never did the show again. Well, lads, thank you so much. I'm going to bring Ray up for a special. Oh, he's run away from me. Hello, Ray's come over here.

Will you give him a cuddle? And I've really, I'm going to have to insist that you buy Adam's book. Try the audiobook. If you're afraid of reading with your eyes, it's a beautiful physical thing. And you usually do a bit of bonus content with Joe. It's a bonus arama. I had a whole chapter I wrote about my relationship with David Bowie in the 90s, kind of setting the scene about what those times were like and where Bowie was at in his career.

And you met David Bowie, but you were a bit upset because he knew who Ricky Jervais was, not you. He went and became Best Miles with Ricky and totally ignored me and Joe. But I wrote about that for the book, Bowie in the 90s, that is. And then I cut it at the last minute, like the last day as it was about to go to the publisher, because I thought, oh, too much Bowie. I've gone on about him too much before. But I put it in the audiobook. It's there, along with a whole hour, a bonus podcast with me and Joe chatting.

And John Ronson, who I love and admire, he got in touch and he said, I love the audiobook. And the Bowie chapter was the best thing you've written. It's the best thing you've ever written. That's not a good John Ronson impression. It's absolutely brilliant. I liked it so much. It was the best thing you've done. No, I've gone off.

No, it's good. It's really good. Anyway, so that's in the audiobook. Well, it's been a joy and your book is a joy. Thank you, Emily. Sometimes it's a bit awkward when they write a book and you think, oh, what am I going to say? What if you'd have written some thriller that I didn't like?

Well, we could have, I mean, we would have been fine. Now you're going to tell me you're writing a thriller. Not that I'd have anything against surrealism, but you know what I mean? When you write a book that's a bit, oh, this is fine. But this was just a joy. And it made me love you even more than I do already, Adam Buxton. Thank you. Thank you, Emily.

It's lovely to see you. And lovely to see you, Ray. And let's all just hope things get a little cooler out there in the world in every conceivable way. Bye, Adam. Bye. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time.

on walking the dog wherever you get your podcasts.