Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Adrian Chiles

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

Emily takes a stroll with British writer and television presenter Adrian Chiles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Come here, Ray. Sorry, Ayes, you keep stopping. It just has a thing for landposts. We haven't seen a bin for a while. There's a bin coming up. Ray, there's one coming up. Wait, there's a bin coming up. So I need about another 2,000 paces for you and you'll be there. This week on Walking the Dog, I went over to West London to chat to TV presenter, radio host and one of Birmingham's best-known exports. No, I'm not forgetting you, Frank Skinner, Adrian Childs.

Adrian doesn't have a dog himself, but he does have a sort of honoury dog that belongs to a good friend of his. And that's Hugo, a beautiful cockapoo. Well, I think he's beautiful. Adrian was worried he's going prematurely grey. That's the dog, by the way. I decided to bring along Raymond, my shitsuit, and so we all headed out for a stroll in the sunshine. To chat about everything, really, there's very little Adrian won't talk about. He's fabulously honest. We discussed his childhood and the best piece of advice his dad had ever given him.

His experiences with anxiety and panic attacks during a challenging time in his TV career and his friendship with Frank Skinner. I love chatting to Adrian. Even if he did hand over quite a lot of the poo bag duties to me, I really hope you enjoy our dog walk. If you do, please remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes. Here's Adrian. Raymond. Is it Raymond or Ray? Do you mind if I call him Ray? I don't know if we'll ever know the answer to that question. Raymond!

So where are we going, Aide? We're going to Acton Green. Can we get a coffee on the way? Yeah, which the locals are very concerned to know he's part of Chiswick, not Acton. Oh, okay. Let's just be clear, it's Acton Green. And my dog needs a poo. He says your dog?

No, it's my mate's dog. But I picked him up first thing this morning with very close me and Hugo. Hugo's the dog, we should say. And he's been... Then I had to take him. my daughter to go for a GCSE and he'd just been farting like mad to the extent that we had to stop the car and check he hadn't done something on the back seat but it was the smell was beyond fart it was sort of it was so overpowering to be honest i can't unsmell it it stuck up my nostril she'll never forget this day no i don't i haven't introduced you yet because your voice is so distinctive yeah i actually feel you've got one of the most distinctive voices i've ever heard so i don't think i need to but i'm going to okay i'm this is walking the door and I'm with the very wonderful Adrian Charles

and Aide has very kindly agreed to do this for me even though he doesn't have a dog. His friend, can we name your friend? His name's David Meissen. But everyone calls him Meissen? Misen, yeah, and he's in fashion. So I'm absurdly well connected in fashion since my best mate is in fashion.

He sells fabrics. But he does not like his dog at all. He has got no interest whatsoever. I only got it because he's, he's, his wife Christy before they had kids desperately wanted a dog and he said to me one day

look Christy's I'm busy Christy's got to go and pick this flipping poppy up will you go and get it and he's one of these people who's born within the M25 who thinks everywhere outside the M25 is the same distance So I didn't even one of those people I added my mind

that it might be something like maidenhead or something No it was Cheshire So I had an eight hour round trip to Cheshire go and fetching this going to fetching Hugo from this a very, very mirthless breeder who had thousands of dogs there. It wasn't like a poppy farm,

but she was a very committed breeder. I've met some of those. Yeah, but she had always been chipped. And I said, you know, I wouldn't mind one of those chips myself just in case I went missing, so people knew where I was. And she just looked at me, straight face, and said, no, no, they're only for dogs. Humans can't get them.

All right. You thought, you know what, we're not going to be friends? Yeah. So what type of dog is Hugo, A, is he a cabapoo? It's like an impossibly well-behaved, obedient and good and aged, cockapoo, which is a terrible name for a dog. Do you think so? Well, it's just so West London, and they're kind of so obedient.

They're just the wrong side of boring, generally, I think. But also he's christened Hugo by the mirthless breeder. And you call, a bit of parking, where you're... London you call Hugo and half the kids in the park come sprinting towards you so it's a I try not to use his name hello hello you're right yeah what about you got to give Ray some fuss as well Hugo is yeah he's a upper middle class dog I'm yes he is yes they do yeah lovely nice to meet you bye bye come on Aide we'll go over here Does he wait at crossing, Hugo?

He's good like that. I'll follow you. He comes when cold. Can I just say, Aide, I feel really a little bit angry about that. Why? Well, I felt Ray was thrown a bit of shade there. I felt it was like Love Island where all the attention went on. She has gone.

She got the element of the myopic about her as well. I think she might have just. Well, the moment she does. You're lovely. You know what I felt like? The ugly friend Ray was like. Ray's all right. Can I let Ray.

the lead because you go and look after him. Oh this is nice aid, what's his park called? She's acting great. Look, what's sort of bodes me here? There's a sign here. Thank you for visiting Ealing Parks. Fine. Why the speech marks? Why? Oh, why? Oh, why? Why? It absolutely annoys me every morning.

I'm going to go in. I'm trying to find a Sharpie in that green collar so it can just... So it can ink come over. It's a sign we should describe it. It says thank you for visiting Ealingparks, eilinggov.com. you get. But what they've done is, yeah, it's pointing out that they've put this in speech marks. Who were they quoting? Someone from the council? Exactly. I don't know. Oh, Raymond's met a friend

aide, look. Yeah. We see, and that friend is ignoring Hugo as well, so. Hugo's got a wild streak. Oh no. He's a big one, that's fine. Oh no, raised too little. He might get frightened. I have to pick him up. I love German shepherds, though. They're such a sweet dog. They're one of my favourite dogs. Come on me.

Hugo, play with Hugo. There we go. So, A, thank you so much for doing this today. I'm looking forward to our walk. We'll go for a coffee. Look, there's a fudor. There's a Labrador. They're all here. So you don't have dogs yourself, do you? No, I've never had a dog, but I've never come close to having a dog. My parents didn't like dogs. But through every phase of my life, there's been an important dog in my life. But my nans dog, my friend's dog, I can, you know, I could sort of list them all. they've been sort of quite pivotal in their own way, I must say.

Really? When I was little, my granddad, when I had a Labrador called Duke, and I left the door open one day at their house, and then Duke ran out, and it was my fault Duke disappeared. I was absolutely beside myself. But then I went home, and then I was just inconsolable, and then my mum bought the phone, well, Mom called me to the phone, You couldn't bring phones in those days.

It was so long ago. No. But she said, it was my granddad on the phone. And he said, Duke's just come back. And he said, who was that very silly boy who let me out? Always remember that. I was joking, obviously. I know, but you never forget things like that.

And then they had a dog, a Yorkshire Terrier called Mandy. Funny thing he followed him. Yeah, who followed him everywhere. She's gone on the back shelf of his Volvo and his car. Went everywhere with him. And when he died, it was a real. It's a real, yeah, it's a poo. Is Hugo doing a poo?

There was a real sort of his master's voice thing, just could not. Oh God, I can't get the poo bags out. Do you want to do it, darling? No, no, I can't get them out the bloody thing. Have you got a... I've got one handy. All right. Hugo's got smart black poo bags, like Bachelor poo bags.

Whereas I would you object to him having a coral coloured one? He's done sort of one on the move there, spreading it over sort of two, three metres. Well, I hope that looks like that looks like... That looks like a fossilised poo. That's not his. Oh look, Aid, what's going on over there? Is it baby yoga, I think? That's very West London, isn't it?

The ladies with the, oh, their legs in the air, really. Oh, well, let's find a bin for the poo, Aide, there's one. So, Aide, so you didn't have, your grandparents had them. Yeah, yeah. Is it Hagley that you grew up in? And then I remember when I was back from, when I finished University, I had to go back home because I had a broken leg,

I broke my leg playing football. Yeah. Yes, I yeah, you brought your leg. Yeah, and I had to go home. And then my mate's dog, Dylan, was a very big friend of mine because I had to walk and walk and walk and try and get my leg working again. Yeah. And me and Dylan went absolutely everywhere.

Oh, Dylan. Come on, Ray. Ray likes a bin, don't he? It's quite little it can lose him behind the bin. Well, do you know what it is? Ray treats walking like sort of shopping. He just likes to stop all the time. Oh, look at you going.

But do you like dogs, Aid? Yes, I love dogs. Although, I know, can I tell you that, you can't see an ice cover, like scaffolding. There's a wall by the train line. Yeah. There was a big graffiti appeared on there a couple of years ago. Just said, read more books.

So that only in Chiswick could you get... I like that. I like that graffiti artist. No, but the reason I can't have one, partly, is I just can't deal with the... I think I've just got too low self-esteem to deal with the adoration. He comes around for sleepovers. Even this morning I got him at 8 o'clock, and everywhere I go in there, he went to the toilet,

he's just looking at me going, oh my God, you're fantastic. Just looking at me in complete adoration. And I just don't feel worthy of it. If he comes for a sleepover, sometimes you shut him in the other room, just to stop adoring me. It makes me uncomfortable because I don't feel that I'm doing anything to deserve it. And then you just walk out and leave him, and he's heartbroken, and then come back in an hour later,

and he adores you just as much. It's just, you don't feel right. Well, the other thing about dogs is that you can lead a consequence-free life with them. Yeah. Because you can disappear, shout at them, do anything you like, and they'll always be there. Yeah. And also, I guess, because I suppose your lifestyle doesn't really accommodate it,

because you travel sometimes as well. No, I'm away a lot. Come on, Raymond. Raymond. So, Ed, Ed, I want to go back to your... childhood to find out a bit more about it. What would you like to know? You grew up in Hadley.

Well, I'm born in Birmingham and then moved to Hagley, which is about 11 miles away from the middle of Brum. And would you, I always think, Frank Skinner, who's on mutual friend, which is how we know each other. He describes your family as sort of like saying of Downton Abbey. No, no. Well, and... Compared to Frank, then we think we probably were Downton Abbey, but we were just sort of...

You were affluent. Well, we're sort of upwardly mobile sort of middle classes. Parents were all working. My parents' family, well, dad's family were all kind of working class from Hansworth. And so that's what you did if you had a little business. You moved out, you know, made some money, you moved out of, you moved out of central Birmingham and went to somewhere like Hagley. Right.

So Hagley actually, nobody was actually born in Hagley as far as I can see very few people. sort of my parents' generation, people just moved there when they did well in Birmingham. But yeah, sort of reasonably well off. My dad had a successful scaffolding company. And did your mum work or was she? No, she worked for my two, well, she sort of looked out for us, but then also she had a sort of part-time job with my dad. And there was your brother, Nev? Yeah, he was three years younger than me. And your mum's Croatian, isn't she?

Yeah. So did you... Actually, she can't bear dogs, actually, which is another reason we didn't have them. Really? But she couldn't get bear cats either But we always had cats for some reason But she couldn't bear dogs To this day she can't have a dog in the house Well I wonder what that is

She just doesn't like them I don't think Croatians are that as into them I don't know what's, have you ever looked at that What country has the most Biggest percentage of dog ownership Well do you know what I certainly find The British attitude to dogs Is fame infamously isn't it

Yeah Very different to like for example Most Europeans Yeah Most people think we're very very very sentimental. Yeah. Hugo. Hang on. Hugo.

Hugo. Wait. You're going to put him on his lead? Yeah, I just want to cross the right. Hello, look. Oh. Hello, gorgeous. He looks like he's a cockapoo or a cab.

He's a mad cockapoo. Mine's thick rather than mad, I would say. Really? Yeah, I mean, nice. A bit like me. Yeah, well, he is just so adorable. I love him to bits. Oh, do you?

What, no downside at all? Yeah, I've wrecked half my life for the first year. It's probably about three grounds worth of eating through rubbish and stuff. But now he's a year and a half. All right, good. Oh, hello. So, yeah, your mum's Croatian. So you speak, you and Nev, do you both speak?

Yeah. Yeah, not brilliantly, but yeah. And how would you describe your childhood? Like, when you think of, when I think of my childhood, I think of bohemian chaos. No, there was definitely nothing bohemian about it. Yeah. I think somebody wrote that book, didn't they?

I never actually read it, but he looked good, the premise. It was called They Tuck You Up Your Mom and Dad. Oh, I really? Just about a, you know, later on in life you're having some kind of emotional crisis. You know, you cast back to your child and I can't think of a bloody thing that caused it. You know what I mean? Everything was sort of, you know, pretty good. Did you have a sort of open, I say open relationship, but did you have the kind of relationship with them,

which I think of as quite a modern relationship that you probably have with your daughters where they can talk to you about emotional issues? No, no. I think we were more open than most families. That's a kind of a Croatian way, just get it out in the open and say it. Yeah. But there was a, I don't know, my mum remained very much of the persuasion of, you've got an issue, just have a word with yourself and sort it out and pull yourself together kind of thing.

Do you think that? Yeah. No, I don't. Well, I think there's room for that. I think it's just nobody knows where to draw the line. So, you know, I've often thought to myself, just, you know, just, There's been times when I just needed to have a word of myself and get on with it. And there's times when I was, you know, properly struggling.

And there's, you know, I don't know where you draw that line. I think it's difficult in terms of mental health. Yeah. Come here, Ray. Sorry, Ayes. You keep stopping. It just has a thing for landposts. Well, you haven't seen a bin for a while.

There's a bin coming up. So, Ray, there's one coming up. Ray, there's a bin coming up. So I know about another 2,000 paces for you and you'll be there. And were you in Nev close? Because I know you are now. Yeah, yeah, very clever. We did a fair amount of fighting. Did you?

Yeah. And I was always kind of jealous of him because he had, no, I wasn't, no, actually I wasn't jealous, but the fact was he was better at me and everything I wanted to be good at, like girls, football, making things. Just everything I was useless at. He was, he was incredibly, he was incredibly good at. So that was, that was quite annoying. And were you academically good at? school because you ended up. No, I wasn't that. I was, I went through a kind of a, I was and then I went through a sort of mediocre age when I was about sort of 14, 15,

but then sort of managed to slightly pull it back. I was just very, I was very good at English was the only thing I was only good at. But then other stuff, you know, history and stuff wasn't too bad at. And were you the kind of person, eh, that was, I always call it the look at me, Jean. I sort of had that a bit growing up, you know,

where with me and my sister, I'd do things like the Emily Dean, show for Christmas or something, people would have to sit through this terrible show. Yeah. And I think there is often, especially with two siblings and a family, you get that a lot. I don't know if you notice it with your daughters, that there's one who's just a bit more thirsty for that kind of attention. Were you like that at all?

Were you shy? I suppose you've got to say, in later life, I suppose there must have been a bit of that going on, or I wouldn't have got into doing what I'm doing. And I was certainly more into sort of school drama and that kind of thing. So there was a, yeah, I suppose there was a bit of that. But I don't really think I wanted for attention either. There was definitely that older, you know, that older sibling thing, older ones for some reason got the way to the world on the shoulders.

I see that now in a lot of my friends' kids. The older one tends to be the kind of the more serious one. Yeah. What, did you sort of have an idea of what you wanted to do? Were you thinking, right, I know I'm going to be doing? Well, I did. I mean, like, if you said to me, you're going to be even a journalist let alone, a sort of a well-known presenter, a broadcaster.

I would have wanted that, like I wanted to play in golf for West Brom or be a fighter pilot or something. He just wasn't a realistic aspiration. So I sort of vaguely wanted to be a journalist, but I couldn't be bothered with all that college putting the student union magazine together and sitting around on the floor with, you know, cutting up bits of paper with other wannabe journalists.

I just couldn't be bothered with it. So I wrote for it occasionally, but generally didn't have any of the things you needed to do a postgraduate course in journalism. So just didn't bother. I was going to go abroad and teach English as a foreign language. But then when I left college, but then I broke my leg playing football and couldn't go.

So I just ended up applying for a journalism course and got into one. Did you ever think or hope that you'd be a footballer? Well, briefly, but not complete and utter fantasy. The only slight hope I had when I went to university I realised I was a better goalkeeper than anything else but I was absolutely nowhere near good in defence. I can really see you in goal.

Eight, that's what you look like. You look like a goalkeeper. Thank you very much. But you're not talking off now. I'm only 6'1. You need to be about 6.6. No, but you could be a 1970s goalkeeper. But then I found him, I was playing quite seriously.

I found, you know, I'd make a proper save. People don't understand about goalkeeper. When you jump high up and then land on the floor, it bloody hurts. I was literally seeing stars. And like on the bumpy pitches, every time I made a save, I need about three teammates to come and pick me up again. You don't see that in the Premier League, do you? No.

Goalkeeper can definitely, unless they've been booted in the knackers, they can generally get themselves to their feet again. Also, my concern about you being a goalkeeper is that... I'll tell you something else. I've got an app on my phone. Every time a plane goes over, I have to know where it's going. So that one... Now, you've got this...

You're a bit of a train spotter. Literally. No, well, a playing spot. See, that one there's a, that's a long haul. How can you tell that? It's got four engines, you can see. Yes, but that's quite you, because I think you like, I can imagine you're doing train spotting when you were younger. Not really, no. Did you not? No, I can't say, I mean, I like a train. Don't get me wrong as much as the next man, but I don't. Depends who the next man is. Well, I don't know, I'm not going to stand on the end of a platform. When you say, I like a train as much as the next man, the next man could be Richard Branson.

That's true. Come here, Ray. This is boring for you, but look, so that plane's coming into land now. Adrian Charles has shown me a plane spotting at. Geneva. It's come from Geneva. You see, it's just coming in over the top of us now. But look, look at how many times it's at a circle on the way in.

Wow. Yeah. Yes, you see. Yes, Hugo likes a plane, don't you, Hugo? Hugo. Hey, let's get a coffee for a walk, can we? I love a coffee. So what were you like, as a young man?

I've seen pictures of you. There's a very famous passport photo of you, which you had as your WhatsApp avatar, which I loved that you had that because it was one of the most horrible pictures ever taken of you. It was, but then I was going off to... But sort of adorable,

because you just looked like, you know when you're a bit clueless at that age? But I was flying off somewhere with Lee Dixon. Oh yeah. Because he's a mate of yours, isn't he? Yeah, well, we were working together. He said this is why you should never go on the internet. and he showed me his phone and somebody had got hold of that picture and scrawled over it once a

over my over my I actually find that really upsetting I know but that's what happens on the internet apparently so I'm told on that that's why you don't go on it on that Twitter thing no this is nice a pretty cafe can we go here that's something really nice thought yeah what do you want oh let me get it hello what would you like Aide I'll have a um a small black Americano, please. It's a nice start to the day though, Aide the Dog Walk. Yeah. That's the thing I like about it, because I see it as a kind of

slightly meditation. Is there anything, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is anything you change about, Ray? Oh, that's a good question. Because you don't really know what dog you get until you've got it and start with it.

I mean, obviously you'd never change Ray, but if you could have had another breed, Ray and another breed, what would that be? I would have another breed? Would you have a bigger one, smaller one? No, I don't think I would. I'm thinking of getting a second one because I think he needs a friend.

I'm just worried he might turn into, I don't want him to be some sort of Anthony Perkins and psycho son. Do you know what I mean? He's a bit, mother. He's getting a little that way. Do you know what, Aide? I wouldn't change a thing about him.

Because, and that's what I think is quite unique about dog ownership. Come here, buffoon. Because I have this idea that, It's not an idea. It's true that because you have a brief time with dogs, with human beings, you don't know when they're going to go. Yeah. With dogs, you know from the outset that there's an end date to the relationship.

You hope you'll get 15 years, but it might be 7, it might be 8. And I think it's quite a good way to live your life. Yeah. And I do remind myself of that genuinely, like in the way that with my sister, I sort of wish I'd reminded myself, oh, God, this might not, because you don't know. when I lost her, but with Ray, it actually, it makes you sort of be a little bit kinder

and act in a slightly more decent way. Because I genuinely say, I won't take him for a walk, and I think, oh, but he's probably only got 10 more summers. Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? It does make sense, although it's the first... Hugo's the first dog I'm involved with him, since I've sort of birthed him

and got him from the breeder, so to speak. And then he made me say he's like going a bit grey now, And it still feels like a baby to me. It's like I talk about my children, really. Just this accelerate thing. It's like seeing a footballer, and you see like Beckham. You see their career. What ages do you?

See their career go from infancy to sort of obsolescence. Or like the videotape. We saw that go from birth when it was nothing and it was all new. And then suddenly it's old. You've seen the whole cycle of it. That happens if you get older, it's alarming. I can't believe he's going grey already, sugar. So, when you went to university, you did English literature.

It was the wrong degree to do. Was it? Why? Talking people out of doing it. It's pointless. Books are for reading, not studying. And also books are written. They're not written for 19-year-olds. They're written for adults who have experienced the world and can empathise with what's being talked about.

Unless you're going to read, Catcher in the Rye. Which is what everyone... everyone read. Yeah. Actually, I've never read it. Is that any good? I've never read that. Well, look, these kids will love Ray.

He plays very well with this demographic, the children. Yeah. Do you want to buy him? You can have him. 20 pay. You've got 20 pay on you? He plays very well with the youths. It's called a very young market.

Where were we? What were we saying? It came from the right. It is, but it's a, again, you're right, actually. It's a great book to read when you're that age. I don't quite know what I'm. don't quite know what I'd get out of it now, if I'm honest. It just didn't occur to me until I was, you know, when I read, my hands down my

favourite novelist is Richard Ford. And, you know, he writes about a, he writes about, you know, a bloke, midlife crisis, somebody can empathise with, you know, divorced, whatever. And it just suddenly occurred to me, I was reading it and loving it in my 40s. I thought, well, if I was at university now, I would have done the American literature course And I would have studied Richard Ford. What could have been spotty 20-year-old know about the life of a middle-aged man? I could possibly empathise.

And like, oh, it's about empathy. But you can't empathise with that, really. But also, if you like reading, don't do English. I used to love Thomas Hardy. He suddenly had to read five of the effing things in a week, and it was absolute misery. But also the other thing is, I certainly think that with poetry, that I think life experience is helpful to appreciate it, properly. Do you know what I mean? This sounds like we're saying young people can't appreciate

literature. I'm not saying that. But I guess studying it to that level. Something you said to me once actually, I remember you said you're very, you said I'm very disciplined about my reading, you said of yourself. Oh yeah. And I took that on board, I became disciplined about that. I also became disciplined about listening to music and that really changed things for me when I stopped, I stopped listening to the same old thing and forced myself to listen to new things and stuff. I've got to got into hip hop and stuff. Did you work recently?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just idiotic. I mean, I couldn't listen to it out loud, but I was listening to on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, it's just. It's just. It's just, it's just end up listening to the same John Martin album for the rest of your days or something. Well, I started listening to more classical music. Yeah.

And I think what that's interesting that we're both doing that and it's similar sort of vintage. and I do think that is to do with getting closer to the grave. I hate to depress you but I think there's that sense of, well, I haven't, there's so much staff. Yes, I know, yeah. I think if you have a curious disposition, then I think you start to panic as you get older because you suddenly realise all these things I'm curious about, all these places I want to go and things I want to read and things I want to listen to. If you don't crack on, you're not going to get to bloody doer.

Yeah, no, I think that's so true. But it's like you say, that's a problem with being a student, is because you have no sense of an end date inside. You don't have that sense of urgency. Come on, Ray. Oh, he's being good, and I'm... So, how did you end up in TV then after... Because I did a journalism course,

and then I got a job at the Birmingham... I got a job at the Birmingham Post after that, but that didn't start for four months hence. So I got some work experience at the BBC, and then the editor there took a shine to me, and got me a issue set on this bench for a bit. Oh, lovely. And he just took a shine to me.

This guy, Paul Gibbs, and he changed my life really. He gave me a job as a researcher. Yeah. And then I went over to radio for a bit, and there was someone on there daft enough. There was someone there daft enough to put me on air doing something. But weren't you really nervous when you did that? No, that's interesting.

I mean, I kind of was, but it's really interesting. I'm good friends with a guy called Jonathan Trott, who was one of the world's greatest batsman. And then he famously had what amounted to a sort of a nervous breakdown on the pitch but you know I was talking to him about you know the stresses of being a cricket and he made his debut I think for England at the Oval and he scored a hundred or something

he said he must have been terrified and he went no you got no fear then just excitement you're kind of nervous but it's just excitement you've got nothing to lose and as you get older it's got something to lose and you become more and more nervous you become more and more anxious which is exactly what happened to me I ended up on He ended up on the telly and I was looking, you know, I used to broadcast standing on my head for hours on end.

And suddenly I'd like 20 words to read to introduce an England game on ITV at Wembley. And I'm looking at it. I thought, I just, I can't say these words. I just don't know how do I say those words? You know, there's 40 syllables there. I could mess any one of them up. How do I ever do that? We literally got like that.

And it was, you know, it was hard. It was interesting. It was about the time Trotty then, you know, Things went pear shape for him, who we'd literally just met. We just met. He was the best batsman in the world, and I was the main presenter on ITV and everything else.

And then when we next met, four months later, everything had got the boot from ITV. And he'd finish with cricket, or finished with international cricket anyway. I just think, you know, if you're driven to succeed, you can end up putting too much pressure on yourself, be too scared of failing. So I think almost when you were younger then,

it's almost that sense of you didn't, you were going into it, sort of rushing into it, you know, without too much thought in a sense of what you had to lose. And also, do you think also, because you didn't come, I was always nervous about going into that area just because I think I came from a TV family

and I didn't want to be seen to be failing or trying at something, which was... Whereas do you think it wasn't part of your world? I didn't have that. Well, because it had sort of my generation generally, you tended to be the first person in your family had even gone to university because access to education was sort of had been widened I think to higher education and so I was the first to go to university and then got no one in my family had ever been anywhere

near anything like you know anything like I went into anything like journalism Working lunch was the thing that you did for a long time wasn't it well I started off on five live actually went five live at you and then and then working lunch launched and I got that job. I did that for 13 years. Did you like doing that aid? Yeah I did. I loved it actually and looking back I mean you never know how lucky you are in your first job but looking back we had a brilliant team and also we were because nobody really watched us I mean we had like half a million maybe yeah the audience but we had a very small very loyal audience the bosses weren't

that bothered about us we didn't cost very much so we could so we could just mess about and find ourselves and sort of experiment and be ridiculous and fail without being a calamity. You almost learnt your 10,000 hours then in a nice way. No, absolutely. You were so competent. By the time you got to the one show, it was, which you had been. It was like you were.

Yeah. I mean, that was a slightly different skill set because everything was so bloody short. At the time, you know, every interview you did, whether it was Michael Cain or whoever, it couldn't be more than three minutes long. So, and that is, but if it's two of you presenting it, you've got about one question each and then one other question and then you know he got to the stage i couldn't have a conversation in a pub with anybody that lasted longer than four minutes you know it's just everything had to be so quick it was interesting when i went back to doing five live it's quite it had to

relearn how to structure a longer interview because generally you get 10 15 minutes with somebody if you're any good you're going to get something out of somebody in 10 or 15 minutes yeah but it took a while to, you know, to pace things, not just use everything up in the first two minutes and then get rid of them. I think with celebrities, what you want to get out of them is the ordinary. And I think with ordinary people, you want to find out how exceptional they are, because everybody is. I can just, I mean, everybody is a mine of information. If you're interested enough to sort of, to want to hear about it, I just, it fascinates me. And I'm very lucky, the best thing about being famous, it can be doing.

difficult because you can't switch it off. But everybody wants to talk. You know, everyone wants to talk to you and then I end up asking them more questions about themselves. Sometimes that can put them on the back foot. But I'm just genuinely interested. I love wandering around in places, in nondescript kind of places,

just randomly happen to be passing. I think I'll stop, I'll drive to some town I've half heard of, and just wander around and see what happens. Hang on the one. So you would get in the car and just drive to the town? That morning I was in Manchester, I always had Mondays free. So I'll go, I think, well, I'll go something this afternoon, weather's nice. And I looked where I could get to on the train from Salford.

And I said, Chorley, never been to Chorley. And then I said to the, I asked around at work, and somebody said, I live in Chorley. He said, what do you want to go there for? Well, that's exactly why I do want to go there. Because, you know, just to go, got on the train, went there, went for something to eat, had a wander, had a chat to a couple of people, walked around a park, sat and did some work in this cafe, who was talking to the, the bloke there and then got the train back. I just think, I'm always fascinating to talk to

me. I met a bloke in a pub in Birmingham was from Landuffrey in South Wales. And he was just saying there's no school there anymore. People have got to go half an hour to school. There's no jobs there. You know, there's affordable housing everywhere. It happens to be not where the jobs are, is the problem. I mean, there's going to be some kind of social engineering. You see, when you thought like this, and I've always thought this about you, I thought, oh, I wonder if Aide would ever go into politics, would you? Actually, I don't know, I've got, I can't find anyone I particularly believe in, but in a way I'd love to, I'd love to be, so I'd love to be a constituency MP. I can't really see you going around. I'll just go around, talk to people. I was

talking to an MP the other day about how I remember it was. I said how, if there's, there were like 80,000 in his constituency. There tend to be 70, 80,000 in constituency and I worked for the length of a parliament of five years. I worked out to speak to everybody, you'd have to speak to 40 different people every day, which would be difficult, but I mean, I'd be the man. I'd just go around, just I can see you in politics. It's interesting, though, because that sort of takes a bit onto fame, and you touched on it briefly. And I feel that I knew you when you were in,

let's call it the white heat of your fame, which is what I say to Frank when we talk about the Three Lines period. Because everyone gets that, don't they? You get a white heat period, your sort of Sergeant Pepper's period. I've got to be honest, you strike me as happier now than you were then. I'm trying to more fulfilled, I'm more fulfilled it with work and what I was doing, what I'm doing.

Was it when you did... I couldn't really, yeah, looking back, I mean it's great, but it's just, it's all adrenaline. And then you don't make good decisions when everything's all adrenaline, it was all exciting. It was great, I kind of wouldn't change anything. But actually working out what happens next is hard.

Well, after the one show, well, yeah. Yeah, well, it was more after sort of, It's more after sort of ITV and everything, because you're there in a position if you're not careful where you're defined by what you used to do. Now that's, you know, and that becomes a change because everywhere, you know, I mean literally 50 times a day, even now. But I mean for years people say, oh, you're not on telly anymore. I've just run out of ways of answering that question. Oh, you're not on telly, you're all right. Are you okay? Yeah. I was fine not being on telly until people look at you like you might have died and you're like some kind of ghost.

So you're defined by what you used to be and that becomes difficult. In the end it becomes like keeping a brand alive and I'd never talk about myself like that. But I did some conference about some awards selling me of some branding licensing thing and I was just trying to see myself through the prism of a brand and it's interesting. I was always taught to look at the future, think what you might be in the future. I thought I was that I was above that, but in the end you have to, or you end up being defined by what you used to be. And interestingly, I've done a few things since I've been really pleased with, but the thing I did about alcohol has changed the conversation.

And tellingly, what defines me now is, oh, you're the drug. And I'm actually, at least it's current. I mean, it's more, it's better than what I used to be. Which is in case anyone doesn't know, but it was very high profile, so I'm sure people do, but you did a documentary aid, didn't you, about, was it last year? or earlier this year. Last September it was a... Yeah.

And it got a lot of publicity. Drinkers like me, yeah. You are one of the few people I know that you're exactly the same as you are off screen. But you know something interesting about that is, I mean, when I first got slightly well-known

presenting working lunch, I went to some the Sony Radio Awards. I was also doing radio at the time. And Steve Wright came up to me and I kind of revered Steve. I still think, where's my dog? Hugo. You go. I was underneath.

It's like a bunk bed set up. Yeah, it is. Steve, he came to him. I was so flattered, he recognised me because he watched working lunch and stuff. It was just pre-1 show, sorry. Yeah, yeah, I was just doing working long-time. I was on telly, but he recognised me, and he said,

he talked for a bit, and he said, you know, it's really nice talking to you. I said, oh, I knew to Steve. And he said, you're exactly in real life like you are on the telly. And I went, yeah, yeah. And he goes, it's really good to see. In the end, you'll go mad, though. in the end that's what will make you go mad and not.

I didn't know what he meant at all, but I found out what he meant, as I've told him since, because if you're playing a part of yourself, then you can always slightly say, oh, you don't, even subconsciously, someone says they hate you. I think, well, that's the program presenting, or that's the part I'm playing on that.

But if that's your act, if it's not an act, rather, if it's actually you, then when they say they hate you, they sort of hate you, I think. So that can, you know, then it does feel like genuine sort of hatred. That is so fascinating. I've never actually thought about that. So in a way with an actor or even a musician, you've got, there's a wall, isn't there?

There's a wall between, there's a buffer between you and people. But for you and actually, but during the one show, that was, that must have been all your dreams come true. No, well. Or did it not feel like that? No, not really, I mean. At that point, I'm saying. I think it felt like to me, there's what I used to work with a lot. We used to play golf.

And he did a shot once, and it was, there's a shot you can play in golf. Well, you don't hit it properly, but it hits the sort of end of your club. And it feels terrible. It makes a terrible noise, and it just shoots along the floor. And it's not a golf shot,

but it can go a long way. He said, I enjoyed it, but wasn't very proud of it. And I thought, that's, now that is how I felt about the one show, actually. I'd never, I enjoyed it. And I enjoyed it, it was a good laugh doing it. And I was proud of it in the sense that, look, you get anyone to watch factual television at 7 o'clock at night and get 5 million people watching, then you're doing something right. But I just felt it could have, it was a slightly missed opportunity, you know.

You could have just been, could have been a little bit cleverer. It could have been a little bit, not highbrow exactly, but. But then it would mix that up with some really heavy stuff. I mean, I had to go once. John Humphreys had been in for, he'd written a book about death. and so I had to go from there was something about rabbits or something and go

into a thing about death with John and he went I mean he said it and he meant it and I really took this a compliment he said Blime you're a pro I couldn't have turned that corner I just don't know how you did that no you were the the truck driver of gear change its aisle

like you were doing it very seamless and you go okay so what you had to let what you could do on that you could sort of level with the audience say look help me out on this You know, we gotta go from this to this. I know it's ridiculous, but bear with us, just gotta be done. I've often wondered, you know,

I was always known as the gloomy, grumpy one. Well, you can start conforming to your own stereotype if you're not careful. So you become playing the part of somebody being gloomy, makes you gloomy and miserable. I'll just read a lot about mindfulness at the moment. There's a lot in there about, hello, just smile, lift your head up and look at people,

people will smile back and you'll feel better. Yeah. If you go around just looking miserable, then people will, you know, people will, you know, we'll sort of be miserable back. But, hey, that's why I take, honestly, with the dog walk, it's forced me, and particularly I had this with grief and depression, which I did get. It forced me to have daily interactions because it means that I would interact with a stranger, which is sometimes easier than friends, because friends would check in and say, are you okay, and I think, I can't answer that question. But a stranger didn't know my backstory.

So I could just say, yeah, I'm fine, but at least I'd have some human contact. Yeah. And that's, that's important. You know, I think with it, and that's why I got a dog, essentially, and it does, it works. I mean, for me, I mean, I'm an obsessive kind of walker. And it can get, it can get a bit worrying. It can get to sort of Forrest Gump type, you know, sit here. No, he can.

I mean, literally, I mean, I'm most depressed. I did 51,000 steps one day in South Wales just kept bloody walking. I couldn't think of anything else to do. I felt so desperate. So you've got to watch it from that respect. But I was looking at mindful. It's really interesting to see what, you know, What does one do mindfully?

Now you learn mindfulness, but I think naturally, there's stuff we do mindfully and there's stuff we don't, each of us. Now for me, I'm the least mindful person in the world unless I work at it. I've got a thousand things going on in my head and I'm pacing around and I'm not doing anything. The monkey mind, that's what the good is called it.

But just when I'm walking, generally I do that very mindfully. It's just one step. Just think about the next step, think about breathing, and just walk and walk wherever it doesn't matter where. I find that incredibly soothing. But also, a lot of it. But also... Cooking is the other thing.

I'm completely lose myself in cooking. But look at Hugo. He was rolling around on his back. He's just happy to be on the grass. I want to... I mean, everyone knows your backstory, but I saw something, you were on a program called I'll Get This Recently,

which was a BBC program. And the premise of it is you have a dinner with people and you do a series of dinner party games and the person who loses picks up the tab. And I seem to remember the one you were on. It was Josh Whitakeran was on there and Gemma Collins, and Gemma Collins rather brilliantly lost and said something like,

oh, I'll get, well, it would touch the sides. Yeah, I don't mind paying for this. It's like, ruined the whole premise, which I lie. But they asked a question, which was why you had to pitch yourself as a TV host or a chat show host. Well, the question was, I think, why I'd be good at presenting a chat show.

And so I just heard myself saying stuff, well, I've done it well, and I've done it badly, I've been a wild success and a terrible failure, and this time I would learn from my... success is or I'd love for my failures and I'd be the best chat show host anyway I'm didn't necessarily really believe it and there was there was it was it was like I was being sort of competitive I suppose but it was I just yeah I just sort of went for it then I thought perhaps I'd overshared a little bit did you yeah but but it was it was fine you said

I can remember because I was like but you said this whole thing where you basically talked about how you said I've done it twice yeah and then you said you know, I successfully pulled in 5 million viewers a night. I know what it takes. And you said your dad told you it's your mistakes you learned from, not your successes. No, he didn't say, he didn't say mistakes even. He said it's failures.

And he didn't put it quite like that. But I remember, he said it was when I stood for election to be president of the student's union at my college. He was a sabbatical post. You know, actually that's a really tough thing to do in a way because it was a very compact college. There was about 800 people at my college at the university. And you all, you know, and everybody voted.

So most people lived on campus as well. So you kind of knew everybody. And to put yourself up for that and not be elected would have really hurt. But I got elected. I told my dad, he said, oh, well done. And he said, I always remember he said, yeah, I think you might have learnt more about yourself if you hadn't been elected. And I thought, well, yeah, that's kind of true.

I mean, you've got to succeed, but you do learn more about yourself in the, you know, the times you fail. Do you think after, because after, and like, you know, again, what happened? I mean, you left the one show, didn't you? Yeah. And then you went to IT. Well, I just got, I was sort of half being pushed out the one show because they bought Chris Evans in to do the big one hour Friday night edition of the one show, which really gave me the ass because, yeah, as it would anybody. Well, because it'd been my show. I'd launched it and everything.

And then there's a big song and dance about a new Friday show and tell me something I can't handle it. And then, you know, I bought Chris no ill will whatsoever. Absolutely not. I just, I mean, I didn't bear the woman who made the decision. Much, you know, it will. I mean, it was her decision, I thought it was the wrong one, but she had the nuts to just sort of go with it and stick to it.

But then I was going to have to wear it, and then this offer came in from ITB. But if they'd never wanted to bring Chris Evans in, I never would have left. You would have stayed? Yeah, yeah. Although, again, that would, you know, that would have been hard because, you know, I didn't, you know,

the people who do the rounds and come on and promote things, there was almost nobody by that stage I was interviewing who I hadn't interviewed before. You know, you're getting round to the second and third time with people. Yeah. And did you feel, you know, when you went, so you did daybreak and you did, and you were doing ITV sport, Did you have that feeling, A, do you know, when you get a slightly odd feeling that something's

not right? Did you feel that about daybreak or did you think this is going to be fine and it came as a shock that people were responding in the way that they were? I think there were a number of things. It was a classic, tall, poppy thing in a way because I think Kristen and I had both to a certain extent with a girl and the boy next door. We'd been discovered and then the audience have grown with us and then suddenly, you know, I'm being portrayed as some fat cat

in some respects I was and she's been portrayed as some slapper through who's rolling around with a footballer and there was sort of no way back in sort of public affection really I'd you know once and the script was written before before we got there which is fair

enough I wish I'd had more in a way I was always think God this it became so miserable I thought I'll just do the football that's fine in a way it would be better if I had nothing to fall back on because then because Because then I would have had to have made it work. And maybe I would have,

maybe I would have tried harder. But in the end, I just didn't believe, I just didn't believe in myself by then. I mean, Piers was really nice to me at that time. Pirates more, yeah. I always remember I went for a, I went for a drink with him. And he said, and I said I was moaning about what the,

you know, the production team did this and, you know, can't do that. At daybreak, yeah. And he said, look, you're blaming everyone else. And I get that. It's frustrating. But the only person who can sort this out is you. You've absolutely got to be the man and go in and do it.

You know, that he's, you know, and I just, I didn't have that bluster or confidence myself at that stage. And I didn't, what I always think about the likes of, of, of, of, of, Piers Morgan, or maybe Chris Evans or others, I think, it seems to me they always feel they're really successful, even when they're not. Even when things are going badly, they will just keep telling themselves and everyone else, but they're brilliantly successful. And I've come to quite admire that because I'm the opposite way around. Even though I was, when I was really successful, I felt as if it was failing dismally in some way.

Ironically, or ironically, it's a wrong word, oddly maybe. Alanis Morrissey, huh? Yeah. The only time I felt that, I remember Christine being really concerned, because the only time being relentlessly positive when she was mithering about, doing the doing daybreak. What does my then mean? But my, the reason?

Just worrying and stuff about it. And I said, no, it's going to be great. I've never been so sure that something was going to work as us on daybreak. That's when I had no self-doubt at that point. I said, it's going to be great. So it's interesting when I slightly started believing myself, not in an arrogant way.

I mean, I wouldn't go around saying it's going to be brilliant, but I really wasn't concerned going into it. I was sure it was going to work. But that's not arrogance. I think it's like if you get used to driving at 90 miles an hour and you never crash. You just expect that's never going to happen to you. I think that's true. After you left, though, Aide, and obviously, you know I'm a mate of yours and I've got to know you around this time through Frank,

I did feel that was so tough that you went through that. Yeah. Because suddenly you got all this stuff happening. Then you had to leave the sport, which you're so good at as well. And I don't miss that for a minute. Do you not? Why not? I missed the crack going around with great people and I enjoyed that.

But for the Champions League night on ITV, you say hello. And then you've thought of three questions beforehand to ask each of your three pundits. And then you basically hand to Clive Tilsley. Then you come out of it, you might have one more minute out of vision, then it's the match. Then at half time, there's a four minute ad break. Then you've got four minutes to ask one question each of your three pundits. And then there's another ad break. Then it's back to Clive.

At the end of the program, you've got an ad break, three or four minutes with your three pundits. Someone else doesn't interview with one of the managers in the tunnel. And then there's another ad break. Come out, one question each, and then goodbye, bang on time. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to shine like that. All you can do, it just becomes about getting the words out in the right order, which has never been my strong point anyway.

So it was quite difficult to make an impact. I think it worked better when I did tournaments. Was it like the English Literature degree, though, in a way it's slightly, not kills your love of football, but it's almost like it becomes something you associate with stress and work as well. Yeah, yeah, maybe. But also, I can't like some, you know, we do some Champions League game and, you know, they go, oh, we got 8 million last night.

or 10 million. I go great, but the reality is those eight million we're going to watch it. Whatever I or anyone else says, they're watching the match. It's about how big the match is. Whereas, you know, if we got up to

five million on the one show, you know, you'd earn that. You know, we'd all earn that. You know, me, Christine, and the team had earned that. You know, like when I do a three-hour solo speech radio show now, no music, you know, at the end of that, I mean, it's totally knackering, but it's, If the show's been any good,

then I can probably afford to give myself a pat on the back for that. Now that's fulfilling. You know, it's not massively high profile. It's certainly not as well paid. But, you know, I'm getting back on the train of Manchester and head back to Birmingham or London and whatever. You know, fast asleep with a mouth hanging open by Stockport. But I can feel good about my day's work.

You said at one point there was a point when you were looking at the Ortecune. You had like, it wasn't like a panic attack. Well, it was. It was something approaching. a panic attack. What happened then? Well I just I just thought Cameron I always got the kind of words out but then if you you know so I had a personal trainer once an American guy he said he never said much but he made his words can always said like overthinking is just depression we said depression is just overthinking isn't it and I think he was right if you

overthink anything you can balls it off so I would think what's the score what's the score I mean literally that so I'd go half time had come and then We come back after the break and I go, welcome back to the new camp. And I just couldn't remember the score. I mean, I couldn't remember the score. I just went blank. Because I was overthinking, what's the score, what's the score? Is it 2-1, 1-2?

When am I? You know, just the less I had to do, the more difficult I found it. So, I mean, if you told me, even now, if you told me, I've got to go on BBC 1 live tonight at 10 o'clock and read out my telephone number. I'd find a way of balls in that off. So how did you cope with that, Aide? through that period. Nothing, you just got to get down and sort of get on with it and, I don't know, I don't know, just...

But you got through it? Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Hugo? He's got a real thing about that dog. What's the matter? I'm going to put you on the lead. Let's put you on the lead. I know why that would make any difference, but I'm going to do it anyway.

Did you find after that egg? Because like I say, I think your life, to me, it seems like, it seems a better life now. Did you get the sense that there were people that were slightly on for the people, ride, you know, like friends, did that change? Or not really? Are your friends still the same as they have always been? Yeah, actually. I haven't thought about it. There's one or two. No, actually, no, really. I think everyone, I can't think of anyone.

There's a few friends I had at sort of ITV who never even picked up the phone, which really hurt me a bit. But I can't think of anybody who are just who felt didn't want to know me now. wasn't, you know, now it wasn't on the telly so much anymore. So I think I've been sort of quite fortunate like that. What, talking about, I think was an interesting thought struck me the other way. I was at, I was at my, actually it was midwinter and I was up my parents in Hagueley,

which is where they're still in the house when I was brought up. And I was getting the train from Hagueley. It was like 6 o'clock on a Saturday evening. A train from Haguely to Birmingham and Birmingham to London. And, you know, I used to get on that train a million times when I was a kid. back and forth to Birmingham. And I was just standing there and I was watching the kids sort of sitting around drinking some cans

just by the station, laughing, flirting, smoking, whatever they would do it. And I was just looking at them in the dark there, I was just staring at it really sort of stopped me in my tracks. I mean they felt like they were like my ghosts. You always think of ghosts is somebody from the past haunting you, but I felt as if they were haunting me. you know they were they were me and I just felt sort of haunted by them sort of looking at them I mean in a good way I just thought God that's me here I am now 52 and there and that was you

and then that that was me but this is what I find interesting is how you know you talk about that period in terms of it being a failure and this terrible thing that happened and you've learnt from it and actually when you look back at that kid on that wall or whatever what extraordinarily achieve you, how you're like, but I don't, but I don't bottle it. You know, I just think part of being driven, I think the image I came up with recently talking to somebody, it's like, it's like you put all your life's achievements in a bucket. It's like there's a hole in that bucket. Right. So then it just sort of empties. When that sort of thing happens? Well, all the time. I can wake, you know, I can, it's like every day feels like,

like a clean, you know, I just think, well, I've got it all to prove because everything that's gone before doesn't matter a job. You know, I've got to start again. You know, say, if I think somebody loves me, I think, well, how do I know, they have, they still love me in the morning. Well, no, it's all, it might have all drained away, who knows? You know, I just don't, I don't bank any of my achievements. Oddly, the bucket marked disasters, I haven't got a hole in it. That's absolutely bloody full. I can't empty it. I've got to, I've got to slop it out occasionally. But that's a sort of pathological, that's a pathological pessimism, though, it is.

But you know that's part of your... Also, the other thing I've identified recently talking to a priest, I know some really nice priest, which is always a help, is when something bad happens, I always think, well, yeah, I deserve that. Why wouldn't? I mean, when people get ill, people get cancer, they go, why me? Well, I never think that. I just think, yeah, well, quite right.

I mean, you know, I've had loads of luck. I deserve to suffer a bit. You know, I would always say, why not me? Why do you think... Say if anything good happens to me, I sort of thank God for it. But anything bad happens to me, I think, all right, fair play, I deserve to suffer. And that's quite... I think that's...

Obviously, that's not very healthy. So it won't surprise people to know you're a Catholic. Yeah. And you... Was that a later in life thing? Yeah, yeah, I was 39. Why did you become a Catholic? I just like...

I just went. I'd always been a believer, just by coming for a family of atheists, but I never found a church to go to. I went a bit, I went some happy, clappy churches, and I thought they were, I couldn't bear it. And then I went to some bog standard Anglican churches, and I just, I don't know, he just didn't do anything for me. And then there's nothing bog standard about being Catholic, I mean, about being Anglican. I mean, and just, you know, Anglican churches, I just didn't, I went to services there. It didn't quite, sort of grab me. But as soon as I walked into a Catholic church, I just felt at home there.

And I just felt at home, and mainly because it felt like people like me. I think it's kind of a British Catholic thing. I think there's kind of, sort of blokes I like to go out drinking with, and women are quite fancied, I suppose, which isn't how I put it to the priest. But it was partly just feeling at home, you know. And I've never really regretted. I've gone through phases where I've found it. It's almost much difficult.

I just thought, I'm feeling so unworthy. But it was interesting. incredible moment with, well, Vincent Nichols, who is now Cardinal Vincent Nichols. He was Archbishop at the time. He's the head of the Catholic Church. And he was on, and I'd sort of lapsed a bit. And I was on, he was on breakfast telly, he was on daybreak. Being interviewed about Pope Benedict's visit. And he said, is that the one with the red shoes, the Prada shoes?

Yeah, I think so, yeah. I only know him through the designers he had. When we went into an ad break, as he stood up, I stood next to him, I'm whispered to him. I said, look, I don't whether you know, but I'm a Catholic. He said, oh, I know, I know. And I said, I'm a convert. And he said, oh, I know, I know. And I went, all right.

And he said, and I said, since I got kind of, since I became a Catholic, so my life collapsed a bit, I got divorced and everything. He goes, oh, I know, I know. I know. But then he said, I said, I said, look, I said, I just don't feel worthy. I don't, I just, I was babbling. went, oh, don't be ridiculous. We can only all do our best. Of course you're one of us. At that moment, I thought, you know, that was massive for me. That, you know, that is,

that's kind of what it's all about, you know, sort of, you know, sort of forgiveness, but saying, like, you know, we are all flawed, you know, give yourself a bit of a break. Well, it's that. I mean, some people would say that as Catholic hypocrisy. Fine, I don't care what people think, but, but, you know, that was a moment of immense kindness. And I saw him last Christmas. Actually, I did some reading at Westminster Cathedral. I was telling him that and he was, I know, it was really, it was really bitterly, it was a big deal for me. I think atheists get very angry about people sometimes that have faith and I think there's an aspiration. I feel that with Frank, our mutual friend that he's always aspiring towards trying to do the right thing, although he did

in fact say to me rather brilliantly, he went, oh Adrian, I can't believe it. He stole my Catholicism. Now he, now he's stealing my alcoholism. There's something that we said for that, actually. He said, Aide, he went, that was my thing, alcoholism. That was my thing. That's good. It's a brilliant observation. How did you become friendly with Frank, by the way, Aid?

Because it's a really sweet romance you two have. I'd always sort of revered him from afar. And I'd saw him about a couple of times, and he just looked sort of straight through me. I went out there, I'll be a new one. But then I met him. Is he got nicer? I don't, but he seems very... Was he not very nice then?

Or did he just not like me very much? Did not like the look of me. Anyway, when we met properly, we went to see West Brom Vetter and we scored in the last minute at Villa Park and we almost kissed and we've been very close friends ever since. Also, Buzz, I really... I feel really blessed to be his godfather. We should say, yeah, so Aide is some godfather to Frank's little boy, Buzz.

And Buzz likes Hugo, doesn't he? Buzz. Yeah, well, Bus, very frightened a dog. So they came around the other day, and Hugo was with me, and he shied away. But then they, yeah, but then they coaxed him towards Hugo. And, I mean, if anyone's frightened with dogs, frighten a dog, they just need to come to see Hugo.

You know, that wall. Well, I don't want to piss on your chips, I hate. But I'm afraid it was Ray, who introduced Buzz. I think he was a sort of, he's a good entry-level dog for children. Yeah. And in fact, Buzz said, I think I told you this, of Ray. When I took him for a walk, he said, that was the best walk I've had since 2017. Really?

Frank always says you're quite competitive. He said, eight. Is that true? Well, no, I don't know. What's his evidence for that? Well, competitive, I suppose, in the... I think of you, I suppose, as... Okay, I think it was based on you going to a Batman and Robin party.

And it was a... He said, he wasn't going to a fancy dress party, or there was a theme. He said, I didn't even... bother asking. No, but the Batman, no, he's got that wrong. Because the Batman costume was bigger than the robbing costume and I'm twice the size of him. That's the only reason that happened. He said, I knew he was going to be Batman. It's just not true. Um, Aid, can I ask you a question? Do you have therapy? Yes. Well, I did, I did have and I sort of stopped because I couldn't afford, I could sort of, it was so expensive and I got absolutely bored to tears, listening to myself.

Did you? But, um, did you find it useful? I did. I did I think I think with therapy I think what you need you need to sometimes I thought I was just frightened of him being bored so I was making stuff making myself sound more interesting or troubled than I was I started worrying about that also I think therapy's flawed I think when you there needs to be a mechanism in therapy I think so like I talk and talk and talk so I'm telling him a story about myself every 10 sessions or 20 sessions he should be able to say, right, okay, I'm calling the meeting, right? And what the meeting is, is other people who are close to you, they come in and discuss you with the therapist. So they say, well,

this is what he told me and this is, just, I could be talking absolute rubbish. I could be absolutely making it off. Can I just say, I never want the meeting to happen. Imagine you, Frank, all sitting there, like, this is the meeting. But it'd be useful for us. We thought, She feels like that. Well, you know, then you've got something to work with. Because I think you can just tell a complete story about yourself. There's no way of checking whether it's true. And actually some narcissists, they are very difficult,

the reason they're so difficult to diagnose, is really chronic narcissists can actually fall therapists sometimes. But I think someone suggested to me, which I thought was a great thing, that you know you have like relationship counselling. You just have that with her. friends. Because I have that. Sometimes if I think of upset a friend or there's

a, I think, well, I don't want to confront them, but I'd like this sorted out. Can we have someone, a mediator, who says, what do you feel? You could sort it out in an hour. Yeah. Yeah, I'll think that's true. They should, oh, could always... Can I just say, we passed the thank you for visiting Ealing Park sign

with the quotes. And at Aide, Adrian, just flick that sign the V. This is the kind of stuff that annoys him. Yeah. You can see it every day. It drives your bloody Sorry. Come on sweetheart. He was handsome, aide. Did you see that man? What? He was a handsome boy. Got no ass really though as if you look at his brown.

God, the glass is always the ass is always half full. Oh, you set me up like Peter Beardsley. So Wade, I want to ask you about your daughters. daughters because they're lovely and I've met them. Yeah. What's it like being a dad now to two girls? Because I forgot to have children. But is it, do you worry, I mean obviously you worry about them,

your parent, but does that slight, oh my God, the bucket's leaking. Does that extend to your feelings about fatherhood or are you able to view that in a slightly more, slightly less? I think. I just remember when Eve's 19 now when she was a baby. just been born. I remember we're here in a wake-up at night thinking, oh my God, what if she stops breathing, what if she dies? How am I ever going to sleep again? What when she, when she's 18 and going to Australia, how will I ever sleep properly?

How'd you ever sleep properly when you have kids? I said to a colleague of mine, Peter Allen on five lives, I had grown up kids at the time. I said, I told him this and he went, actually you're right, you never really sleep properly again when she've had kids. And he was right, you don't quite, you don't quite sleep. Like my mom even now, and I'm 52, my brother's 49. Even now, she says she never quite sleeps properly unless we both asleep in the same house with her, which hardly ever happens, obviously. But say when we've got a place in Croatia, we're all in the same house, then she sleeps properly. Yeah. You know, and I just think, I think there's a... It never leaves

you then, that sense of... No, and also... Do you think about them in terms of, because they're... I don't know, I just, I just, I took Evie to university in September. Oh my God, how exciting. Do you feel really proud and emotional about that? Oh, God, I was definitely emotional. I mean, I knew she worked hard and did well and everything. What's she doing, Ed? Sociology and philosophy. But then I, when I dropped her off,

took, you know, did all the stuff, taking the stuff up to the room, and I hogged her, and then went out, and then I left. I started crying, I cried so much, one of my contact lenses came out. And I couldn't, then, I didn't have my glasses or any other contact lenses with me. So I had to get myself together, find the bloody content, put it back in the line. I started crying again. I'll have to stop. I was just walking around this park for an hour.

I just couldn't bloody control myself at all. And is the emotion that she's starting her own life or the sense of achievement? Everything, isn't it? In a way, it is that, but it's also selfish in the sense that you're thinking about what you're actually mourning is the passing of your own life, you know, the passing of time. You know, I'm thinking about that day when I left you. university at her age. I'm thinking, well, where's that time gone? So you're crying for your own, you know, for the, you know, the life passing you by.

Aid, I've so loved our walk and I've loved hanging up with the dog. What's your, have you enjoyed the dog walk? I have. I always enjoy, I enjoy seeing you. I enjoy being with Hugo. The sunny shining. I noticed Ray didn't get a mention there. I've enjoyed being with Ray as well. Ray, it's quiet, quite reticent. Do you do a little bark every now and then, Ray? Hugo, say bye to Ray. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.