Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Amanda Wakeley (Part Two)

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

We’re in Battersea Park with the brilliantly interesting and incredibly warm Amanda Wakeley - the legendary fashion designer! Amanda tells us about some of the extraordinary people that she’s dressed in her career - including the late Princess Diana. She also tells us how she averted a near-international incident by helping Theresa May choose the outfit she wore while taking office. We also hear the real story behind the infamous ‘trouser-gate’...We then discuss Amanda closing her label after the pandemic - and how she feels about entering a new chapter and navigating grief simultaneously.  We highly recommend you listen to Amanda’s podcast Style DNA - where she speaks to extraordinary people about their personal styles and the psychology behind the clothes they wear. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts! Follow Amanda on Instagram @amandawakeleyFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Really hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with Amanda Wakely. Do go back and give Part 1 a listen if you haven't already and do give her wonderful podcast style DNA a listen. Thanks so much for listening to Walking the Dog and I'd also love it if you gave us a like and follow so you don't miss an episode. Here's Amanda and Luna and Ray Ray. You have dressed some extraordinary people in your time

and you certainly first came on my radar. I knew of you due to the... late Princess of Wales. How did you get involved with dressing Princess Diana? Well I was very lucky. It was I hadn't long started my business and the then deputy editor of Vogue an amazing woman who sadly no longer with us Anna Harvey was helping Diana with her clothing choices. Remember she was young. She was introduced me and said, you know, I think you two actually would have a lot of fun working together and I think your aesthetic would be wonderful for Diana. And we did. We had a lot of fun. I did a lot of

her casual clothes, you know, sort of cashmirs and, you know, suede leggings and things like that way back in the day. What was it like, do you remember when you first met her? I do. It was so funny, actually I had a tiny tiny studio that I was sort of living in and it was I was sort of living and working it was a tiny two-bedroom flat and I literally had sort of double doors between the sitting room and my bedroom and the work room at the back and the thing is it sort of looked like I had the whole building because I had my own sort of steps up porch front door it was tiny and I remember thinking right I'm nearly ready they'll send in the sniffer dogs first Luna Luna come on and then I can just you know tidy my

makeup up and you know after the sniffer dogs have been in and brush my hair and all the entourage and whatever so whatever time was the allotted time literally at 10-2, the door bell goes. I'm like, oh, okay, sniff a dog's security. And it was Diana standing on one leg with literally sort of like a finger in her mouth sort of looking really apologetic, you know, batting her eyelashes.

Luna, Luna, come on. Batting her eyelashes and saying, I'm really sorry, I'm early. And I just burst out laughing. I said, I'm so sorry. I thought I had to have the sniffer dogs and all and time to tidying myself up and she immediately said oh don't be silly

you know you look great let's you know let's get started and yeah she was great really wonderful warm and talk about very charismatic I imagine very charismatic

talk about having a presence she had a huge sort of amazing presence. Diana famously wore an Amanda Wakely suit when she resigned from public life, didn't she? She did and I had no idea that she was going to be a wearing the suit,

B resigning from public life and see what I do not know to this day how it got into the press that she was wearing Amanda Wakely because I certainly didn't go you know, I didn't know that it was going to happen. I, you know, I had no contact with the press. I was just like this little designer workroom.

And so there was a guardian angel up there somewhere. And it was not widely done at the time. You know, now it's sort of Beyonce wearing this or Rihanna wearing that or, you know, the Princess of Wales wearing so and so. It just wasn't, it wasn't, Luna, come on. It wasn't, it wasn't done at the time. But it was massively powerful and important for me.

Was it? Oh my God, yes. Did that have an impact on your business then in terms of, I literally just opened my store. Is that an album old? No, no, no, no. I had a lovely store on the Fulham Road in Chelsea. And it, I mean, we just sold out of that suit

in a week, in a few days actually. And it was a bit of pinstriker? No, it wasn't. It was a dark bottle green. Cavalry twill with a velvet collar. I remember. Yeah. So it was so interesting.

She, in some ways, was almost the beginning. She partly heralded that idea of the celebrity endorsement. You know, even though it's not an official endorsement, simply by wearing something, the impact that that can have on one business. Well, yes. And I think industry, the world started to realize the power of royalty in terms of selling clothes, brands, whatever. Because she was this beautiful, charismatic woman that everyone fell in love with. And so they've fallen in love with her and then they want to know what she's wearing.

Yeah. And then I think brands then realize the power of royalty and celebrity and Hollywood. And remember, you know, back in the 50s and 60s, the starlets were dressed by the studios, by the studios' costume designers. Yeah. Not by brands so much. The studios owned everything, controlled everything. And then I think, you know, it was the 90s that the fashion industry really grabbed hold of this idea that... Do you think also women were becoming more emancipated in that prior to Diana, previous generations,

you get the sense that perhaps the Royals, you know, there was more a sense of being told or instructed in what to wear, that a woman wouldn't have agency over her style or her image? Yeah, completely. and it shouldn't have been about the clothes, it should have been about the work they were doing. Yeah. But actually that, I understand that, but I think our royal family have,

they're promoting Brand Britain. And whether that is the fashion industry, which, let's face it, is worth 28 million pounds to the country, probably less now, but, you know, still a lot. And if our royal, family can be part of that which I think they now do beautifully promoting British brands you know from the small to the very large that's part of promoting brand

Britain you also famously dressed Theresa May and she wore Amanda Wakely on yellow and black sort of it was it was navy blue and sort of yes it was beautiful she wore it was a suit wasn't it yes so it was a coat and a dress. And that was the day that she took office? Yeah. Which is incredible, isn't it? Yeah. It's a bit of a funny story because she, she was a very good customer of one of my stockists and she used to buy her Amanda Wakely mainly from this store in Henley. I don't even know if it still exists. And anyhow, a friend of mine was hosting Teresa's Leakely. leadership campaign in her offices just so that she had somewhere to be.

And I remember a few days before Teresa was due to take office. I said to my girlfriend, you know, is Teresa all fixed for what she's wearing on Wednesday? Because this is a really important moment for women and the country and fashion and all. And I said, you know, I just want to, woman to woman, I just want to make. sure she's you know happy with what she's wearing I'm not pushing for she said oh yeah she's fine she says she's got a navy blue escada suit and I went stop right there she may feel great in it and she can wear it the next day but she can't take office in front of the world wearing a scar so hang on so you intervene to stop her wearing a German suit

or to suggest that maybe she wanted to wear something and in fact she already she already had this in her wardrobe. She'd already bought it. And so what happened and then she decided to wear a wifee? Then I sent her as a sort of good luck gift the chunky silver bracelet and the chunky silver necklace because

you know I just I mean it's a very proud moment for women and I and I wrote her a note and I actually took a copy of the note because I didn't ever want that to get taken out of context and I just said this is to wish you good luck

and you know on a very important day for you and for women and you know we're really rooting for you and again does that have an impact on your business positively when that happens it does actually and I didn't do it for that reason I really did it from a bottom of my heart saying you know just want you to feel empowered I just try to avert an international incident as well which they hadn't foreseen because you realise actually that's just not their and the statement that clothes make, you know, you only have to look at Keir Starmer's partner and how suddenly people, you know, I love it when you've got this sort of fusty old male

journalists are having to say, what is this brand that you're talking about? What's the brand that she wears again? It was me and M, wasn't it? Yeah. And it's sold out. And suddenly people are aware of it, but you realise it's so powerful that thing now. It really is. There was also trouser gate. There was trouser gate. We're going to have to touch on Trousergate briefly. Well, I mean, which was ridiculous because, you know... What was Trausaget Amanda? Do you want to explain to people? So Trausagate was her chief of staff, I think, you know... This is Theresa May.

Teresa Mays. Rang me up. I think it was the day... Yes, it was literally the day before and said, I've just realised that the PM is being photographed to me. morning for Sunday Times magazine and we haven't really thought through clothes and it's got to be sort of casual and all of her casual clothes are in the country so I popped into the shop I gathered an armful of what I thought would be lovely things for her to be photographed in at home and you know I lent her a couple of things to wear that day

because all of her clothes were, you know, her weekend clothes were in the country. And then sadly, it was another woman who picked up on the fact that the trousers, the leather trousers, were £900. I mean, they were exquisite quality, absolutely exquisite quality, and she looked amazing in them. And she had a big cashmere sweater on. I thought she looked great. And with a pair of sneakers. And, but it was another woman. that said, how dare she wear a pair of 995 pound trousers? And you just sort of think, how dare you judge another woman on what she's spending her money on?

A, she didn't spend the money, you know, don't be so ignorant. The pieces were lent to her. And quite frankly, even if she decided to wear 5,000 pounds worth of clothes, if she's made the money running the country, good on her. It's her money? Yeah. I just saw this dog flying through the air and then splash. And then you realise, oh, that's Luna.

Is Luna going to jump into the water? She's itching to go in. Luna, Luna! Itching. Oh, now look, and that's the other dog persuading her to... Do you think Luna will jump into the water? Oh, she'd happily do it. What is he?

Hey, you are a good girl. You're a smiley girl. So, yeah, that trouser gate thing, It's so ridiculous, isn't it? And it does highlight the fact now that when has anyone ever written that kind of editorial about, I mean, they will talk about Rishi Sunak in terms of all sort of saying, you know, look at him wearing these trainers or, but... I find it absurd.

There's never been, I don't think there would be that level of outrage or anger leveled at a, a male MP for the cost of his Savile Roos. Yeah. Absolutely not a chance. Not a chance. Well, has everyone ever analysed a picture of a man like that saying, well, how much did that suit cost? Yeah, exactly. And I think that comes into a slight damned if you do, damned if you don't that women sometimes have.

Yeah. Don't make too much of an effort. Make an effort, but don't be seen to be making an effort. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, look at this. That's a beautiful dog. Is that a greyhound? I think that's a very large whip. Whipit? Yeah. I think so. It might be a lurcher. It might be a whip it

cross. I don't know. If you were a dog, what sort of dog do you think you'd be like? I think you're quite whippet like. Oh, I'm not. Don't you think? I think I think I'd probably be a Labrador. Do you? Yeah. Sort of pleased to see everyone. Loving life. You've had such an extraordinary career and you decided after, it was a sort of post-pandemic thing, really, wasn't it? Like so many people. And honestly, it wasn't my choice. It was, we'd basically sold the majority of the business to private equity quite a few years before. And at the end of the pandemic, they just said, you know, we're sort of not funding anymore. Where, you know, this isn't our, you know, our core strength as a whatever.

And now I look back on it. I mean, it was. Unless we should say what happened is you, the business, eventually you folded the business. It was put into administration, yes. Was that difficult? Yeah, it was horrible. But now I look back on it and I feel so grateful to have had 30 amazing years and to be in this new chapter. I'm loving this new chapter. And I loved what I did then, but I love what I'm doing now.

I genuinely do. And I feel really, really sorry, hashtag grateful. to have this opportunity to have my toes held to the fire in a whole new world and have to learn and, you know, when you least expect to be doing that, but have this incredible new purpose and be on this whole other journey. And it's really exciting. Presumably also, because I imagine the fashion industry, anyone who works in it will say it's relentless. It's relentless. I mean, you are on this giant hamster wheel. You are literally from one collection to the next. And they're overlapping. It's just ridiculous, actually. And I think there's a lot about the fashion industry that's really genuinely broken. But because of the pressure of more, more, more, it's very hard to press pause to refocus. We all thought that was going to happen with the pandemic. did and then it didn't and you know what is happening under this bench have you found something no oh Luna oh seriously oh god what's that dog is he all right

one of them's got a bone or a ball like that when he's sort of like in a crime series and they're alerting them to a dead body or something no it's just waiting for its owner to look it's got the ball there it's trying to get his owner to throw the ball. Do you think he's training it? She's having nothing to do with it. She's got incredible willpower. I would have caved months ago. That's hysterical. I think she's got headphones on, so she maybe can't...

Is that what it is? Yeah, she's got noise counselling headsets on. Oh, I think that's what it is. The business, as you say, goes into administration. You get, you have a period where presumably, you know, you're allowed to throw a brief pity party for yourself because we all do that when that happens but you were actually when this happened

you were going through something which I imagine put this into perspective somewhat yeah I lost my brother literally two weeks after the business went into administration and we knew he was dying he had brain tumour terminal brain tumour

so I just needed a moment to stand back and look life and work out what I wanted the next chapter to be. And I feel very, you know, there are silver linings in everything. You know, we're very tight as a family. You know, my partner Hugh, you know, was supportive of me taking some time to think about what the next chapter was going to be. He knew I had another chapter in me probably before.

before I did. And that belief has been amazing. That belief in me has been fantastic. Yes, I've seen pictures of you and Hugh. I'm quite obsessed with you both. You're very glamorous. You're kind of like the, I love it. You're like something of rival. Oh, so not. I mean, you should see us when we're down in the country. I'm just saying, Google a man with you. You'll know exactly what I mean. They're like the dream Jilly Cooper characters. Oh, I don't know about that. We do. not live like that. I trust me. But you look like that. You're every, I'm very invested in your relationship. And I have to say, I really was touched when I heard what had happened to you,

because I lost my sister. Oh no. And she was 43 and it's that weird thing that, but as you said, you know, it just put everything into perspective that's going on in your life because it's a weird thing losing a sibling. It's a hard thing to explain to anyone unless you've been through it. It's really hard. People do not get it. But a very, I had a few sessions with the most unbelievable grief counsellor called Julia Samuel. She's like the goddess of grief. She's unbelievable.

She worked with the late Princess Diana as well. She used to come to some of Diana's appointments with her. They were great friends. They were really great friends. She just really put it in perspective for me. She said, you know, your sibling relationship, is the longest relationship that you will have in your life unless it's cut short.

It will be longer than your parent, your relationship with your parents. And it just sort of like it was a light bulb moment for me. And I know sibling relationships can be complicated and all of that. And I'm not saying that mine wasn't at times, but we loved each other viscerally. But there were many silver linings in, there have been many silver linings. in there have been many silver linings in Charlie. Trust me, I'd rather he was here than not,

but there have been so many. And yes, I do wake up every morning and think, yeah, I'm going to make the most of today because Charlie doesn't have the privilege of today. Yeah. And I'm sure you probably feel the same about your sister. I have that thing where it's weird, I've lost both my parents and I know you've lost your dad.

And what's so interesting is that it's very true what you were just saying, because I obviously miss my parents, but it doesn't feel, I don't get hit by it still, like viscerally, where I will still get hit, and it's like, oh my God, that's so weird, she's died. It feels like, well, yeah, my parents have died, and that's really sad, but it feels a bit like those scars have healed,

whereas I feel like there'll always be something a little bit open, woundy about that. Completely. Do you feel that? And I had such a powerful dream, the other night and Charlie was in it and so alive and vibrant and I woke up and I and then you get this sort of real gut turning heaviness when you realize he's not here you know and you've just been with him yeah in your dream so so clear so real um but but yes I mean um it does make me

live with a greater urgency I understand that yeah I totally understand I was just thinking about that word urgency. It is right. I mean, you know, it's, it makes you just far more alive. And also, as you say, it's, you mourn the future they never had. Yes. But then you appreciate the future that you've got. I appreciate the present that I have.

Yeah. I really do and I don't take one day for granted. Which brings us on to your fabulous. this podcast, which I love listening to it and I so recommend. It's style DNA. Style DNA. It's just so fascinating. What's brilliant about it is it's sort of a journey into what makes people tick through

their style choices. And I think before I start listening to it, I don't think I quite realize what an impact, how intertwined it is with who people are. Yeah. Their psychology and there's so many interesting people on it. I love, I know the James Blunt one is a bit of a clever. but I really recommend listening to it because he's hilarious. He's so funny. He's just so funny.

And he's an old mate of yours, is he? Yeah, yeah. Old mates, they're old mates of ours. We have homes in the same town in Swirley Village in Switzerland. We can say it. It's Verbiade, yeah. And James has dropped the V bomb. Yeah, he's dropped the V bomb.

And it's just, he's just very, very funny. And his wife, Sophia, I absolutely love. And they just have, a fantastic marriage. They're great fun to be around and yeah, I feel very, very lucky that he trusted me in season one. So when you started it, you thought, well, I want to do this podcast and obviously you're fabulously well connected. So there's trust implicit when you approach people. You can ask them to do things like that. Were you nervous when you started doing this? because it was a new thing or did you just see it as like wow?

No, it's interesting you say that because I used to have something called wakely well-being that I ran from the Albemarle Street store, you know, one evening a month where I'd invite VIP customers and I would interview someone from the health and well-being sphere, which is something that fascinates me. So we walk because it's cold. Yeah, let's walk. So I thought I felt quite sort of used to interviewing. And I really prepared myself a lot for my first interview.

It was Trinney, bless her, who was just amazing. And I had probably quite foolishly booked her in on the anniversary of my brother's death. And I said, I'll be fine, I'll be fine. And actually, I really wasn't fine when I woke up. and Trinney was phenomenal. And I didn't tell her, but I know her. She's such a pro. And I knew that she just knew how to get through the interview.

And it's one of the most popular to date. She's an amazing woman. I have untold respect for her. And she probably didn't know that that was why I was perhaps, a little bit more nervous than and I don't think it shows actually but I know I know I was nervous and I still have a healthy degree of nerves before I interview someone but that's why I particularly wanted to interview people in our home I wanted it to be very personal I do a lot of research even if I know someone

really well. Because I want to be able to ask the questions they haven't been asked before. I always find it interesting when someone will come on and let's say they've got a book and they'll say, oh God, you've actually read it. And I said, well, of course I've read it. Yeah. I mean, isn't that the basic entry level? Absolutely. And in fact, I do a lot of my podcast research, walking around this park listening to them either on Audible, listening to their book or if they've written a book or other podcasts they've been on

because I don't want to be asking them the same questions that they've already answered and yeah, I think it's really important. Just getting a sense of them. And you had lovely Catherine Ryan on. Oh my God, she's hysterical. It was really interesting hearing this insight into her, you know, through her talking about fashion.

Even I learned things about her that I didn't actually know. before. Yeah, well I think you know, unless, I always say this, unless you're a nudist, clothes affect us all. We all have to get dressed in the morning and make a decision

about what we're putting on. Even if it's the same as in James's case, same jeans and t-shirt that he always puts on. But everyone, you know, even he's got an opinion on what those jeans are and that t-shirt and all the rest of it. Clothes affect us in a different

way, but you know, in a way that food affects us, you know, it's just a fundamental of life. There's so much psychology in it. I imagine people, because you're so elegant and obviously creative and... Not today, I wouldn't call it. But you see, this is what's interesting. She's saying this.

But even in a parker and walking boots and just everything, the way the jumper, the way the bag is slung around your shoulder, The little sleeves. The sleeves are coming down over my cold hands. It's freezing. What is that? But that style thing I find fascinating. Do you think that is something that's just to do within a confidence?

Because you do see some people, don't you? I think you are kind of slightly born with that. I think you're either interested in it or you're not. Yeah. I think for me it's, yes, I was interested by it. I understood early on. my unfancy you. I didn't even notice him.

I don't know. I don't. I don't. I seriously don't notice it if I do. I understood early on the power of how something could make you feel. And that has always fascinated me. And I did what I did. And, you know, when I was a designer,

because I wanted women to feel the best version of themselves, I'm fascinated by the stories that our clothes tell about us as human beings and the stories that they tell about our lives and the memories that are imbued in those clothes. You know, I remember really thinking long and hard what I wore for my father's funeral. That was so important to me to get that right for him. You know, and I remember saying to my sister-in-law, it's also traumatic.

You know, what are you wearing for Charlie's funeral? And she said, oh, I don't know. And I said, would you like me to bring up some, you know, I'll just bring up a load of dresses? I said, oh my God, that would be. And it was such a precious moment to spend with her trying on things as a tribute to my brother. You know, it's very, it's very emotional, very special. I bet you thought long and hard what you wore to your sister's funeral. And I don't want to be maudlin about it.

It's a celebration. It's not maudlin. You want to be, you want to do it to honour them. 100%. And you know what, Amanda, I love it. Whenever I felt a bit tearful and moved tearing that, and I love that because I think that's really honouring my sister's memory. Yeah.

Even now, what a tribute to a life that is still, you talking about your brother, the thought that someone would still think of me all these years later. Yeah. And we moved to tears. Yeah. And that's the same. Yeah. You and your brother.

But I was working at InSty. I was Deputy Editor at the time, InStyel magazine. And my sister died and I remember the stylist did something really lovely old stylist at the time, Robin. And she said, she called me and she said, look, I don't want to be intrusive. But I just wanted to give you the option of, you know, do you want us to call something in for you? Oh, how lovely. And it was really sensitive her because she said, I don't know how you feel.

You might want to wear your own thing, but I wondered if maybe you wanted to wear something fabulous, but you would like the option of giving it back potentially so that it's not hanging in your wardrobe. Expendively sit in your wardrobe. And she said over three dresses. And I always kept the text of them, Hand her. And she said, black or a colour.

And I said, yeah, I want to go black. I think my sister would want me to be slightly Sophia Loren. So more back streets of Naples. You know, I don't want to meet you. So what did you wear? So she called in the late letter that Lorenz Scott. There was one of hers. I loved her.

Oh, she had such powerful, beautiful clothes. I loved her. And there was a Victoria Beckham and Dolkhan Gabbana. And I think I wore the Dolkia in the end. Because I just thought, it just felt classic. I thought, right. But I have to say, I have worn your designs in the past. and they always made me feel a million dollars.

Oh, good. Then I did my job. Do women say that a lot to you? Yeah. It's when women say to me, oh, I wore your dress for my first wedding. It's like, all right, okay, that worked, didn't it? No, I mean, it's just, you know, I always laugh about it.

It's, um, but yes. I think that should be your toddler. Amanda Wakely, just perfect. your first wedding needs. But what I also loved is that mothers and daughters would shop together, that by, you know, either the same thing and wear it completely differently or, you know, and I love that sort of, I just hate this word ageless, but timeless style, let's put it that way. But there's got to be a better way of saying sort of something's ageless.

It is lovely. People, you know, if I'm introduced to someone and they say, oh yes, I've got one of your, you know, cashmere sweaters with the satin cuffs and I still wear it or whatever it is. It's really lovely, really lovely. You know, to hear someone say they still own it and still wear it, that I absolutely love. Congratulations on your brilliant podcast. And I was going to say, do you think you might sort of expand it as a franchise in terms of a book? And I can see so many because it's such a powerful idea, I think.

You, yes, you're very, you're very wise. Yes, there are conversations afoot. Oh, good. Luna, come on. A lot of people think of designers, especially like, if I'd be honest, I would think of you, like immaculate, Hitchcock blonde, disciplined, all these things I was prepared for. I think what's really struck me is how incredibly warm you are. Oh, I hate to talk. think that you would have thought that I'd be anything otherwise but I wouldn't think you'd be

chilly yeah but I would think it's a real lesson actually that you realize it's possible to have both those qualities like you're an organised person I imagine you're up at five exercising are you but no I don't have to be up at five anymore to exercise I now but but I am disciplined you know and I'm a huge believer in I need to get outside early in the day get light in my eyeballs and and if we're in the country literally grass under my bare feet well I didn't wear my sunglasses today because I know you've written you said before I'm trying not to tell me why I'm interested in this there's oh my god my friend Liz Earl who I walk with quite regularly she should tell you the complete science behind it but there's something about

Google it there's something about the first 15 minutes of your day you want to get proper daylight into your eyeballs into your brain and it's it gives you a serotonin boost well Amanda wakely I have thoroughly loved my walk with you and I have loved it too Emily it really has been a treat what a lovely start to the day and I also I haven't even got onto this we haven't got time now but I wanted to say to you before we go you wrote an article about being child free and I'm child free as well. And it really was so important to me that you wrote, you know, that you wrote that you wrote that reading that because I thought, yes, this is exactly how I feel.

Oh, thank you because actually I reread it the other day and I thought, oh, is this a bit shouty? Well, that's because you're a woman and so we worry that everything we says is shouty. I believe that there is no nirvana in life. You have children and it's not perfect. You don't have children. It's not perfect. but whatever path we have chosen or whatever path we've given, make the most of it. And, you know, I grew a wonderful business with wonderful people within it,

and I hopefully made a lot of women very happy in the process. And that probably cost me the opportunity to be a mother, but don't feel sorry for me. I'm fine with my choices. Yeah. And so that was really what I was trying to say. I loved it. And also, can I just say, we make really really...

good godparents. Do you know what I'm loving actually is, yes, is being an aunt. I am loving that opportunity to be a proper sounding board, to grown up niece, nephews, steps, whatever, because I tell them what I think. Well, also, it's a really interesting thing. Frank Skinner, who I do another podcast with, he said to me, when I was telling him about my relationship with my God kids and my nieces, he said,

it's amazing really, isn't it? He said, you're almost like the role of the priest. He said, you're there, you can act as, you're not as invested emotionally in them. So they often tell me things that they would never tell their parents. Absolutely. And I think that's a real privilege having that role in someone's life.

It's a real privilege. It's a real privilege. responsibility and my theory is it's a real responsibility to be very honest with them. On that very happy, positive note. I love it. Amanda, give me a hug. Oh, absolutely love that.

I do listen to Amanda. Luna's just digging a hole. You must listen to Amanda's brilliant podcast by the way, so I'll be a new, which is so brilliant. We've had a wonderful time. Luna, have you enjoyed our walk? Yep, I think she has. Amanda, will you say the bye to Raymond? Oh, Raymond's chilly. You've got to get a walk.

in the car. He's shivering. Raymond, your mummy's not being very kind. She needs to get a blanket on you. I mean, I'm going to end with some slightly harsh words from Amanda Wakely that I wasn't expecting. No, no, I don't mean it. He's absolutely gorgeous. Bye, Amanda. Bye, Raymond. Booker Boy. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog.

We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog. wherever you get your podcasts.