Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Angela Barnes

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

This week Emily went for a walk in Brighton with Angela Barnes and her Cockapoo Tina. They chatted about Angela’s fabulously unconventional dad who inspired her to go into comedy, her podcast ‘We Are History’, and her recent wedding to husband, Matt. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The audiences weren't used to seeing women on stage, and when they did, they thought it was a booby prize. They thought, oh, excuse the pun. They thought it was, it was like, that would be a great comedy. It might be my show title, Booby Prize. I won't do that. Write that down, someone. This week on Walking the Dog, I popped to Brighton to take a walk with the comedian Angela Barnes and her adorable cockapoo, Tina. Angela is well known for her comedy work on radio and TV.

She's a hugely popular regular on Walk the Week. one of the country's busiest live stand-ups, the woman never stops doing gigs. We had the loveliest time on our stroll, and she told me all about her fascinating life. We chatted about her fabulously unconventional dad, who inspired her to go into comedy, her love of performing, and what drives her as a comic. She also told me about the ADD diagnosis she had recently, which came as a huge relief, and we chatted about her husband Matt, who she obviously adores almost as much as Tina. Angela, by the way, does a genius podcast with John O'Farrell. It's called We Are History and I totally recommend it.

It covers all sorts of major world events from Watergate to the Profumo scandal. But it's all done in this very chatty, fun, entertaining way. So do get involved. I loved my walk with Angela. She's a very kind, genuine and also hilariously funny person to spend a morning with. And as for Tina, she is the cutest thing on four legs I have ever seen. Okay. Hey, I'm sorry, Raymond, the second cutest.

Needy much. I really hope you enjoy my walk with Angela. Please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the woman herself. Here's Angela and Tina. Oh, Angela, look at that. Pretty church already. Look at that.

Isn't that idyllic? It's a little postcard. It's so picturesque here. Hello Brighton and Home City Council, man. They're everywhere. Counts are in force. You see, the concept of the man and white van is very different down here in picturesque, Brighton and Hove. I don't know, is that just us getting older, Emily?

Two white vans, not one wolf whistle. I'm insulted. I don't know about you. Do you know, I cried out for some sexist, vaguely abusive comments, and they were none. None, none at all. He didn't objectify us at all. I know. He went about his business.

So, I've seen a... sign here. Stammer tea rooms. Oh look at your little face. That's made you really happy. It's very quaint here. This is Stammer park we're in and you've got a little Stammer village. And there's been outcry recently, Emily, because they've started charging for the car park. So they always used to be free. And there's been a slight local outcry with the dog walking community. But it's, you know, it's a pound an hour. I don't mind. 10 pound to walk around a pretty park. I mean, with this vista, yeah. Oh, listen to those seagulls.

That's the most brightened sound, isn't it? I don't even hear them anymore. I'm so excited. I think Tina's going to do a poo. I think we've just started and already, she's like, it's all very well, but yeah, here we go. And Tina is, you'll see this, she does a thing that apparently, I've never seen another dog do. We should do a poo in one place and then she'll move on, still in position, and just spread them around. So I have to chase her.

Oh, you done? Sometimes I have to chase her quite far as she dots little poos around the countryside. She takes and sort of speculate to accumulate approach. Oh, Tina. There we go. Good girl. So I'm going to introduce you now, Angela. Okay.

I'm so thrilled. I adore this woman. And we've come up to visit her. Come down, I should say. people always make that mistake. I've come down to visit Angela in Brighton, which is a place of residence. And I'm with the very wonderful Angela Barnes and Tina. This is Tina.

Angela, it's so lovely to have you. Now, firstly, we should say we're in Stanmouth Park in Brighton. But let's get on to the main attraction. This one. I'm sorry. I know. I get it. Everywhere we go.

I get it. She is the main attraction. I took her on stage with me once. I did a tour show. And on a tour show, come on Tina. On a tour show, I'll go on stage, do a couple of minutes, introduce my support act. And I thought, I'll take Tina on with me. She's still a puppy in that first bit and introduce the support act.

And of course, the crowd were, oh, the dog. And when I came on to do my show afterwards, they were just like, where's the dog? I said, she'd probably see me, not the dog. like I thought that's it I'm never doing that I'm never letting her upstage me again and lovely Tina is what kind of a dog is Tina she's a cockapoo but she's a very small cockapoo dad was a toy poodle and mum was a cockapoo so she's mostly poodle where you're going Tina she's having a good old sniff and so she's very poodly and she's quite clever most of the time and then she'll do something phenomenally stupid

and we go, oh, that's the Cocker Spaniel. She's very curly, very poodly. She drew a haircut, actually. I had to trim, because of the sort of lockdown rush of people getting puppies, she's pre-lockdown. You just can't get a booking for a groomer. Isn't that a first world problem? You just can't get a booking for a groomer, Emily.

So I've had to try and trim round her eyes myself, so they look a bit mad at the minute until we could get an appointment for her to have a haircut. But she hates being brushed, so I have to. you have to keep her quite short. And when did you first get, when did Tina come into your life? So Tina, we got Tina as a puppy. We got her in February 2019.

So she was born on Christmas Day. Yeah, she'll be three on Christmas Day. But she was, I've always wanted a dog and, but I'm very allergic to dogs. And ideally I would have got a rescue dog. That's what I really wanted to do. But I knew that I couldn't, what I didn't want to do was get a rescue dog, find I was allergic to it and have to, you know, send it back. You know, that's such a traumatic thing for a dog. And also, so these, I hate calling them hyperalogenic beans because they're not.

But poodle crosses generally I knew I was okay with. But they very rarely are in rescues because they're such sort of well-behaved generally nice dogs. You know, they, oh, here we go. All right, Tina, calm down. A couple of other doodles coming. They always recognise other poodle crosses. Hello doodles. Hello.

Hello. Yes, I know. Yes, hello. What are these doodles called? Labboodles. Aren't they gorgeous? She's a cockapoo. Hello, Freddy.

They're gorgeous. Hello. They're lovely. They're obviously pups, but they're massive. Tina's, she's a bit of a wuss with other dogs sometimes. She, um, and, As long as the, so in my bag right now I've got some toys. I won't mention what they actually are because she'll go mad.

We should stress these are toys for the dog. Yes, yeah, not for me. And if there's another dog about and the toys are out, then she can be a bit defensive. And she'll start on, I mean, she's started on an Alsatian. She's got no idea of how tiny she is. She's really balsy. But when she's on the lead like this, or if the toys aren't out,

she just wants to play. And sometimes she doesn't quite realize that other dogs aren't always up for it. Or they might be a bit more boisterous than her. And you were telling me, before we met the, we had the interlude with the doodles, you were telling me about Tina's origin story. Oh yeah. So, yeah, we couldn't, we just waited and waited for a poodle cross to come up in our local rescues and things. It just wasn't.

And then I eventually started to say, well, I think we should look for a puppy. And I did this. My husband was very dog ambivalent at first, but it was a deal breaker for me. I've never wanted kids, but I've always wanted a dog. And so he was like, okay, fine, we'll get a dog. You know, and we went to visit the breeder when she was probably about five, six weeks old. And she was the, are you a runt of the litter?

I think you can still say runt of the litter, can you? But she was. She was tiny, she was bullied by her brothers and sisters. And she played an absolute blinder with Matt, my husband, because he picked her up. Or I picked her up, gave her a collar, handed her to Matt and she just sort of put his head, her head in his coat and snuggled it.

And that was it. From that moment, it's been a love affair. He's besotted with her. For someone who was not a dog person. Yeah. He's so completely in love with her. We did that thing, you know, because everywhere we'd read, they said, whatever you do, don't just pay the deposit there.

Don't go away, think about it. And I think we got as far as a petrol station at the roundabout up the road. Got the money out, drove back. You're paid the deposit. I was exactly the same when I got Raymond. Everyone gave me this sort of list of things I was meant to do. And I did none of them because the heart wants what it wants. It really does.

And by the time we'd met her for five minutes, we were in love. There was no way we weren't bringing her home with us. And we were lucky because the breeder said that another couple had sort of shown an interest in her. But she said, I like you two better. So we're like, yes, we won. So yeah, that was it. She came and lived with us. So she's been with us. It'd be three years in February.

And, yeah, I can't imagine not having her, really. And did you grow up with dogs or pets then? Well, we did. Because I was so allergic to dogs, my mum and dad would have loved to have had a dog. And they had dogs before I came along. But I was so allergic. They were like, we just can't have a dog in the house.

But I had cousins who lived nearby who had dogs. And so I did have dogs around. and I'd have to dose myself up with antihistamines and play with them. And then when I went away to university, both of my parents then got dogs. I was like, that's my, you're never coming home again, is it? I get the message.

Thank God she's out. So we were dog people who couldn't have a dog. And because when I was growing up and in the 80s, these labradoodles and cockapoos weren't a thing, you know, nobody knew about dog breeds that were hyperallergenic or that were less likely to give you allergies and all of that. So it was just a, no, we can't bring your dog into the house because you won't be able to, you know, and also that thing of, if it does make you really ill, we're going to have

to give it up, that's going to break your heart. Yeah. You can't risk that. So, yeah. Well, back then in the 80s, it was mainly, I remember everyone had collies. You know, those lassies. Yeah, my auntie, Jen had a rough collie. Yeah, Prince, his name was. Yeah. Of course it was Prince. Of course it was Prince. They are, what else could you call a rough collie? He was Terrified of the Hoover he was, but he was beautiful. And we're in Stanmer Park today, which is in Brighton. And I'm assuming you moved here as a result of going to the University of Sussex, which is up the road from here.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, yeah, I went to Sussex University. And then I sort of yo-yo between Brighton and London. My whole lot. So I left university and went to London because you think, well, need to go to London for work and you know I think when you're in your when I was in my 20s London was the place to be where you're trying to make it and you're trying to

but my heart was always in Brighton I always wanted to come back and then I moved back here in 2008 and after I was with a guy for ages and we split up and he'd never wanted to move to Brighton I had and I suddenly went oh I can now and came back but then when I started doing a stand-up a couple of years later At that time, I didn't have a car. And, you know, trying to get to gigs on the circuit from Brighton was just a bit of a nightmare. So I moved back to London. And then I met my now husband who in London.

And he'd always lived in London since he'd left university. So I thought, well, that's it now. I guess I live in London. And it was actually him because we'd come to Brighton quite a lot. And I've still got a lot of friends here. And he's an ultra, he runs ultra marathons. He's, we're very different, Emily. He'll do these 100 mile races you know and he just loves around here you know running up on the downs and things is perfect hello look at your little coat

what's this a little chihuahua is it gorgeous be nice Tina good girl here we go there we go lovely doggies are they all chihuahua oh okay all right oh oh hello They're different forms. Chihuahua Steffy. Oh, Chihuahua Stuffy. Oh, wow, that's quite a cross. How did that happen? Chihuahua, then a Chihuahua, Chihuahua, and the Chihuahua Jetrusters.

Chihuahua, that's quite a date. Yeah, this one. Tina's best friends are Chihuahua. The mummy was Chihuahua Stuffy. But she mate with another Chihuahua. Isn't that fascinating, Angela? I've never seen on, have you? So nice to.

to meet you though. Have a nice day. Lovely to meet you. Oh. We were saying you've moved to this beautiful, to Sussex. Yeah. To beautiful, you don't actually live in Stamber Park, but you live in.

I wish I did, but. And I want to go back though to where you were originally from. Yep. And it was, it's Kent that you grew up in. Yeah, I grew up in Maidstone. I was born in Sidcup, grew up in Maidstone. So two of the most, they feel like those sort of towns that you go to when you just want, a name a boring town.

you know, with nothing really to say about it. They're just so... I used to think, I wish I was somewhere cool, like Manchester, or, you know, somewhere that's just got a bit of an edge, got a bit of a made stone. It's so dull. And the thing is, it's, you know, Kent, Garden of England and all that. And I always used to do a joke about it,

say, well, Maidstone's where they've hidden the old fridge and a pistain mattress, you know. It's just this sort of... It's surrounded by beautiful places, by beautiful countryside, lovely villages, but it's just a little bit of an edge And it's that sort of, I don't know, I never really, when I left, I didn't really ever have any desire to go back.

And I do, I go back and visit and some of my best friends live there. Some of my best friends are from Edgson. There was a bit of that one. But yeah, it was just. Angela, what does this say? Sheep grazing ahead. Ah, yeah, that just means dog needs to stay on leads. Sometimes they graze sheep or little bits of the park,

so you have to keep the dog on the leaves when they do. Any problems with the sheep? Please contact. I mean, what sort of problems? They're terrors, these shit. Honestly, they run riot. You should see them. No, but they've got the names.

Any problems with the sheep? I mean, how do they define a problem? I find their coat a bit rough. I find it gave me a dirty look. Oh, dear. So your family life, I want to know a little bit more about. How long have you got? Wow.

I feel I already know quite a lot about your dad. You talked about him a lot and you actually did a brilliant, which I'm sure you can still listen to it. It's still up there on Radio 4. Yeah. On I play it was called, You Can't Take It with you. And it was sort of a tribute to your dad in some ways, isn't it?

It was. He was, well, character is the, every time you talk about my dad, you know, you say to someone who knew him, what was Derek like? He's like, he was a character. That's the thing that always came out. And I think I, because he died in 2008, very suddenly he was 60.

It was really a reaction to that is why I started doing stand-up. So I was 33 when I did my first open spot. You know, so I'm a bit of a late developer when it comes to comedy. And it was because of that, really, that he was a big comedy fan. And we used to watch comedy together. He would come to live comedy with me. I used to run a comedy night in Brighton, so I was a booker, really. And he used to come to that.

you know, he'd always say to me, why don't you have a go, go on, get a... Don't be stupid, Dad, it's for those clever ones, you know, it's for those... And I just never did it while he was alive. And when he died, I just thought, well, he's, you know, he was 60. That's... And at the time when he died, I was 31, I was like, well, no, I'm over halfway through. I need to think about what I want to do, you know, and so it really was as a result of that.

And of course, it's really, it's really sad that he never got to see me do it. And, I mean, part of me is like, well, thank God, he would have been there in a front row heckling me, you know, it's just sort of, it might have been a disaster if he had been there. Do you think also, Angela, I don't know, I think that's his gift to you. You know, him going, perhaps you wouldn't have done it if you hadn't have, you hadn't lost your dad. It does feel like that weirdly.

It's because sometimes I feel guilty for feeling that, that I go, you know, oh, what, what would my life have been like if he hadn't died and I hadn't discovered this and all of that, but you go, well, you can't think like that. And that was one of my dad's biggest thing. My dad, the reason the show was called You Can't Take It With You, he was very much an in the moment person. And he always said, funny, he said, I'll drop dead at 60, which is exactly what happened.

Because that's what happened to his dad. And he was type 1 diabetic, my dad. And of course, when he was diagnosed in the early 50s, it wasn't like it isn't, it wasn't so easy to control. And the problem was when he, it's quite sad really, because he, my dad was very into two things. He really loved motor racing and he really loved, he really wanted to be a paramedic.

That was the story. He wanted to be a paramedic. But in those days when he was younger, he wasn't allowed a racing licence because of his diabetes and he wasn't allowed to be a paramedic because of his diabetes. So his illness had stopped him doing what he really wanted to do through no thought of his own. So what he did, he ended up doing,

he, like, volunteered with St John's Ambulance and he worked at Brown's Hatch. So I spent my entire childhood at Browns Hatch Racing Circuit and my dad. So he worked there. So he found ways to be involved in that world. But I think he never really forgave the diabetes for stopping him having the life he wanted. And so he had a very well soddy, I'll do what I like attitude. He did.

You know, he really did. And he was always like, well, I'm going to rule the disease. It's not going to rule me. So he just didn't. When he was younger, he didn't really look after himself very well in the way somebody with type 1 diabetes should. And so by the time he got to his sort of 30s, 40s, the damage had been done really. By the time he was like, oh, I need to be a bit more careful.

The damage was done. And so he had a, yeah, triple, no, quadruple heart bypass when he was 47. You know, and I think about that a lot. I'm 45 now, you know. But actually, I then think, yeah, it was really sad that he died at 60, but had medical science not got to where it was, we got that extra 13 years with him that we might not have had. you know um so he was very yeah rasped by the horns and and just do it

and a character like I mean I always said about my dad as well my dad was a brilliant dad I was a real daddy's girl and you know my parents divorced when I was nine and I would spend my weekends with my dad and loved it but he was a terrible husband the worst you know there's no getting away from that brilliant dad terrible husband he liked the ladies and they liked him because he was a cheeky

chappy, you know, and in that time, you know, I mean, he would definitely be cancelled now. I think my dad would not have survived the Me Too movement. I know that, and I love him dearly, but he wouldn't. You know, he was a man of his time, shall we say. What did they do your parents? Because I know your dad, he opened a shop at one point, isn't he? He did have to shop at one point. What kind of shop was it, Angela?

My dad had a sex shop. So, I know, I know. It was a bit later. So for the purpose of comedy, you know, I pretend like my dad had a sex shop when I was a kid, he didn't. My dad had moved through jobs in the way I did when I was younger. I think my dad and I were very similar in many ways and very different in others, but we were similar in that sort of, what I know now in me is ADHD and I think my dad probably is where I got it from. I've only been diagnosed this year, but I couldn't settle at a job. I never got sacked

because I was also very conscientious and I like people liking me. I don't like it if someone doesn't like me. So I never got sacked, but I would move jobs all the time. and my dad was the same so he was you know one minute it was a whiskey salesman then he was a hydraulic salesman and then he'd do something and then eventually he ended up yeah running a sex shop in great yarmouth of all the places just to add that extra twist of seediness to it and that was when I was in my sort of early 20s I think so my friends would get reams of free pornography because this is before streaming on the internet it was I became very popular with the young young men in my life, particularly.

What did your mum do? My mum and dad, so different that I sort of don't really understand however, but I do know how they got together because they lived on the same street when they were growing up. And my mum is, my mum was one of nine children and lived in a sort of council house in Swanley in Kent. And it's just the sweetest lady you'll ever meet. She's so, and out of her nine children. brothers and sisters. She's the sort of middle one.

And she's the quiet one. They're all musicians, singers, show-offs, all of them. And my mum would just sit in the middle of it or reading a book and watching it. She's an observer, you know? But she's very clever my mum, but she went to

again, went to school at a time when she was a girl on a council estate at a Catholic school and she was just told she was rubbish, you know, was just told that all was in her future was going to secretarial college

and that was it and it wasn't until sort of later in life when she went back to college and studied, you know and got really good jobs, she became a sort of health and safety manager on building sites like, you know, telling sort of big burly men what they should be doing

and what they've been doing wrong and kind of she's great and she oh Tina what have you been eating sorry we're having a bit of a disaster here from Tina's backside See what I mean she does these sort of peripatetic poos. It's weird. You never seen another dog do it like that? No, Ray does it? Does it? Oh good. I'm glad it's not just you, Tina. So when you were growing up, what were you, what sort of a child were you, Angela?

I was a really anxious child, terribly anxious about everything. And I think that's very much my mom's quite an anxious person. I think I got that from her side of the family, maybe a bit more. But it would, my dad, dealt with it maybe not in the best way because he was doing what he thought was right but his way to sort of try and deal with my anxiety was to try and force me into situations where I'd have to deal with it you know it's a chuck him in the swimming pool and they'd swim yeah and hopefully they won't drown sort of scenario and so my life was just this sort of series of my dad trying to push me into doing things I was really being anxious and it just wasn't really and I know it came from a good place and he was just trying to sort of he thought he could

get that side out of me but it's just in my DNA it was never going to stop you know and in retrospect now i think well it's probably set me up quite nicely for a world of stand-up comedy because he'd also his other thing that i think he thought would make me stronger was just to humiliate me at any given opportunity you know to just really embarrass me was his favorite pastime he'd do things like i'd be you know i was sort of 16 17 and started going to the pub with my friends and my dad was involved with this kind of charity group hello a beautiful dog hello it's a bag of poo you don't want that hello what a lovely dog gorgeous but yeah so he's he would with his friends they'd do like a charity pub crawl and my dad had deliberately come to the pub I was in with all my

friends I was 16 dressed as like Homer Simpson or something you know and I'd get hide in the loos and of course my friends all loved him they thought he was brilliant because that's the thing about a fun dad it's fun to everyone else but but it can be really humiliated when you're a shy teenage girl, you know. Were you happy as a kid? Yeah, I was, it was sort of, I was in a weird place. So I went to, because I went to school in Kent where they still have the grammar school system. Academically, it served me well.

And I really liked school. I had good teachers. Were you popular? I was in the middle, I'd say. I wasn't, definitely wasn't one of the popular girls. I definitely wasn't one of the cool girls. I was very shy. No one who went on to become a comic ever was because...

No. Only Joel Domit. That's it. I always say that to Joel Domit, but I say, you're supposed to be a rock star. This isn't for you. You're beautiful and popular. You're not supposed to be a comedian. Were you quite... Because I know you were saying you've been diagnosed as an adult with adult ADHD. Yeah. I had... We've talked about this because I similarly had the diagnosis.

And I wonder if looking back on your childhood now, it helps make sense of certain aspects of your childhood. Oh God, yeah. I was very, so I present very typically as a woman with ADHD. So like many people, you know, you hear ADHD, you think of naughty boys kicking chairs over, not doing their homework, you know, not being able to sit still, not being able to concentrate.

Whereas for me, it was all my, like I said, I was a really anxious child because I just, I was super eager to please all the time. And the thought that I might not get top marks or that I might not, you know, a teacher might be cross with me or anything like that gave me such anxiety that sometimes it would give me complete paralysis to be able to do something, you know? And I knew it wasn't, I was never just lazy because a lazy person doesn't get themselves into a state. A lazy person isn't hyperventilating because they've not done their homework,

you know? And it was just this, what I now know, they've got the fancy words for it or executive dysfunction, where something in your brain was so worried about the rejection of getting it wrong, you just couldn't do it and that's what my childhood was like so from the outside I was really high achieving at school at primary school I moved up a year you know I was really it all looked fine but it was the swan thing you know underneath I was paddling furiously and so anxious so worried or my whole childhood all I can think of is being worried and and I don't really even know what about just about not pleasing someone or not being the best at something

thing and I would you know my mum said that not being perfect not being perfect and that there was this thing this sort of narrative about my childhood is that I was bored easily um but I think what was actually going on so I would do activities for a bit I'd do brownies for a bit and then I'd stop I'd do I was a majorette for a bit and then I'd stop and I think it wasn't that I got bored it was that the minute I saw that this was an activity that I wasn't going to be the best at what's the point what's the point in going back there I'm not going to be the best at it and it's only really been I'd say in my 40s that I've discovered the joy of doing things I'm not very good at and I started like it was during the pandemic I was such a blooming textbook

pandemic if I bought a sewing machine I learned to crochet and it's terrible I mean my poor friends are getting a load of crochet tat for Christmas that they're just going to have to smile sweetly and you know hide in their houses you say that but Tom Daly he's brought it back again right who knew I'd be cool but um make a little dog jacket for Tina Oh, I could. Do you do dog clothes? I don't really do dog clothes. For our wedding, I had, she was sort of as part of the bridal party.

But she had, um. Oh, look, hello. Oh, what's going on here? You cutting the trees? She's a big snub, let them over the foot pump. Oh. Oh, I see. I thought that'd be quite a fun job being a tree surgeon.

Just sort of spending a day. Well, also, you get the title with, with none of the. I mean, don't give me wrong, I'm sure they do some. Oh my God, he heard us. Oh yeah, yeah. Hurry. He's got a chainsaw. But, oh dear.

Yeah, that's interesting that, that idea that if I can't be the best, there is no point doing it. And actually, it's interesting because it's almost like what you've got is 70% of that, if you call it the Ronaldo gene, you know, the winners, Jean. But what you haven't got is Ronaldo's self-belief. Yeah. So you can't see it through. I think that is the combination that makes a comedian. I can't remember who said it. I think it might have been Stephen Fry or someone. I can't remember. But it really rang home to me. The thing that makes you a comedian rather than, you know, an actor, musician, any other sort of performer is a desire to show off and say, look at me, look at me. I want you to look at me while also utterly hating yourself and being full of self.

loving and that's what makes you a comedian is you're like look at me don't look at me I'm terrible but look at me you know and it's that combination because it I mean who in that who is securing themselves would drive 200 miles to stand in front of a room for the strangers to 20 minutes begging them to laugh at your stories and then getting a car and drive 200 miles home again for no money who does that who's secure and happy in their life no one It's an actual madness. So it's really interesting to me that you talk about performing.

I can totally see why performing feels instinctive for you with the kind of person that you were. Yeah. And are. And yet you didn't, obviously, you didn't become a stand-up until you lost your dad. Yeah. And up until that point, you went to university, didn't you, Andrew? And you did, what was your degree?

I did linguistics at some. classics and I but I fell apart at university because all the structures that had sort of kept me in place at school and despite all the ADHD and all the anxiety and everything that's going on that was just not noticed or picked up on as soon as I got to university with no structure and no sort of you know if you're not at this class at this time there's going to be we'll have words with your parents as soon as that all went I just couldn't cope at all and I really broke down at university so I'd never grab I just couldn't cope and now I know why and it's really what's been really nice since being diagnosed is to go back to that time in my life which was a really dark time my sort of throughout my twenties really and be able to sort of understand it now and know what was going. She's going to bonkers off the Lena. She does love an autumn leaf does Tina? I've never seen a creature so in love with life. Oh she's a happy dog. She's a properly happy dog. But then after that, you started to work in, was it health and social care? When I was at university, I worked in an old people's home, like as a part-time job.

I really loved it. Like there was bits of it that were hard and it was terribly paid, as it still is, care work. At the university in the first year, they had like a little place you could go to, a little office you could go to where they had sort of jobs for students. And you could, like a little job centre for students. And I went along there and it was just random. I saw this advert for carers at this nursing home.

And it's something I'd never considered really. Even like both my parents were in St John's ambulance and did things like that, they were quite sort of, but it never occurred to me. And I went along for the interview and got the job and I just loved it. I'd work night shifts on a Saturday night. You know, as a student, if I was going out clubbing

and I'd be off to do my night shift at the... Yeah, I really looked. When I sort of, it all fell apart at university and I left and I was really aimless and didn't know what to do. And I wasn't well, to be honest, you know, I really wasn't well. And eventually I got better. I went and stayed my mum for a bit in Ireland. And then as I was getting better, I was like, right, I need a plan. And so I went to do a nursing diploma.

Because I just thought, well, you really enjoyed that care work, maybe do that. And then while I was doing the nursing diploma, again, because my family weren't well off, you know, So I didn't have loads of money to go and do my studies and I had to work through to support myself. So I signed up with a social care agency and I was working in sort of hostels, mental health units, people learning disabilities, all sorts of stuff I did doing that while I was doing my nursing. And then I finished my nursing and I realised, well, actually, the nursing isn't what I, it's the social care stuff that I enjoy. It's because with the nursing, I felt a sort of patch them up, send them on. It's a little conveyor belt. You didn't get to know the people.

You didn't get to really... And what I liked about working in social care is you were working with people sort of on their whole lives. You know, their whole... Where they lived or maintaining their housing, on their work, on their social... You know, on anything that they needed support with. But you work with the same caseload of people

and you got to know them. And that suited me better. I felt I was better at that. So that's what I moved into. And I worked in lots of different places. And again, like I say, I just moved around a lot with jobs because I would get this visceral kind of

feeling of unrest if I stayed in one place too long. My friend Ian used to say to me that I, in the days where we'd have proper address books that we'd write our friends' addresses in. He'd be like, you really mess up my address book and I'd just cross it out every six months

when you decide you want to live somewhere else. And I was just totally unsettled. You know, stand-up comedy is the longest job I've ever had by far because no two days were the same. And there is an element of my control in it. You know, certainly in the point of the career I'm in now, well, I don't feel I have to say yes to everything. I can sort of pick and choose the jobs I want to do a bit more now.

Not completely. I've still got a mortgage to pay, but, you know, I can be a bit more in control of things. And also now I've got this knowledge of my diagnosis. I can work with it a bit more. So I can sort of go, well, okay, those sorts of gigs, for example, they used to give you panic attacks. So just don't do them.

Whereas before I'd see that as a failure in me. I'd be like, well, other people are able to do them. And particularly, I think, as a female comic, you compare yourself constantly to male comics because you feel like you have to be the same as them to succeed. And to a certain extent, that's the measure of success. You know, funny's funny. And if you could do the same things they can do,

then you're... But they're not having to deal with certain things we're having to deal with, you know, like travelling home at 3 o'clock in the morning as a woman on your own from a gig, you know, or there's just things that male comics don't have to think about that we do. Do you think there's also, every time you walk into a room as a woman, there's a sort of three minute, if you're lucky, period, whatever you're doing.

Yeah. Where in front of an audience, where you feel you have to sort of sell yourself. Yeah. You need to. You have to prove you're okay. Yeah. It's changing now because there's now so many female comics. Like you go, particularly on new at nights, open night nights, things like that.

You see, it's lots of women now. It's brilliant. Because when I started doing the circuit, I would always be the only woman on the bill. Always. It'd never be another woman. To the point where if there was, we'd go like, well, someone's fucked up the booking here. You know, this is, someone's messed this up. And so what that meant was the audiences weren't used to seeing women on stage. And when they did, they thought it was a booby prize.

They thought, oh, excuse the pun. They thought it was like. That'd be a great comment. I might be my show title, booby prize. I won't do that. Write that down, someone. But yeah, it was, and you could sometimes walk out on stage

and you'd see a room deflate a little bit. You'd see people sort of go, and then you had to, you had to get a punchline in in the first, you know, 30 seconds, otherwise they're not going to wait any longer than that for you to be, because they'll have made up their mind. Yes, see, I knew women weren't funny. And that's the thing as well as a woman in that time particularly,

I think it is getting better, but when you went out on stage as a woman, you weren't... If you saw a man die on stage at a comedy club, you'd go, that man's really bad at comedy. You saw a woman die on stage at comedy club. It was women are bad at comedy. Not that woman, all women.

So you had the pressure of your entire gender on your shoulders every time you performed, every time you're on a panel show. Because if you perform badly, it's not just you, your entire gender gets tired with that brush. It's a lot of pressure. to take on stage, you know.

But you, you must have loved it enough to overcome, you said you're a people-pleaser and you have anxiety, and yet you were able to push on through because you obviously felt, first time you went on stage, something felt right about it. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's the, I think there's this sort of idea,

because I know for a lot of people, possibly the majority of people, The idea of doing stand-up comedy makes them feel physically sick. It's that sort of... Because people say it all the time, but you're so brave. I remember emcee in a gig once, and I was chatting to someone in the front row.

And he was a paramedic, this guy, and his mate next to him was a fireman. I was talking to them, and we were having a little bit of banty, you know. And in the break, he came up, and he said to me, oh, you're so brave. I said, you're a fireman, and a paramed... Are you insane? What I do is not brave.

What you do is brave. You know, and it's sort of embarrassing for a paramedic to think that I'm... But what they mean is, is that public speaking isn't for everyone. And did you find... We were saying how you found it... To you, obviously felt quite natural.

Well, I think what it is. So, and again, now, there's a lot of these traits in myself. I can now go, oh, that's ADHD. I know that now. Which I didn't necessarily know at the time. And one of them is... I never feel comfortable in social situations with people I don't know, particularly if there's lots of people.

Partly because I'm hard of hearing. So the minute there's more than four people, in a room I can very easily lose track of you know I've got quite good hearing aids now but when I used to just rely on lip reading it was a disaster did you have that when you were quite young Angela I started losing my hearing I was about 18 which is not an ideal time when you're already kind of socially awkward and a bit weird and that's my hearing so I've got something called tympanics sclerosis so it's um like calcium deposits on my eardrums yeah and it just means my your eardrums don't vibrate properly and it's sort of degenerative.

There's a brilliant bit of your stand-up, which you have also done on radio when you were in bed with a guy. It's, so I had, the problem I had was caused by, I had ear infections all the time when I was a kid, something called glue ear, which never went away for me, usually does. And it caused it, every now and then, my ear drums would perforate, would burst. And it was horrible when it does, it's icky, it's pussy, it's bloody, it's not for, very nice. And yes, I used to have a joke, these lovely people are walking past, I'm going to

to wait until they walk past before I say my punchline to this particular, Jova, I'd have a bit where I'd say, I didn't want to be right on the line as these lovely people. Because I'd say, yeah, it happened once during sex, and the guy was like, oh my God, I've actually fucked her brains out. God, I've done that bit for ages. I've almost forgotten it then. I remember listening to that, and it just made me laugh so loud. You know those laughs you do when the dog gives you an outrage look?

The look of outrage, like how dare you enjoy yourself. I'm not involved in it. Oh, dear. So, yeah, that's sort of, but I think being on stage, that anxiety goes because the thing, about being on stage of the microphone in your hand is it's always your turn to speak. So I have that anxiety in social situations that either I'm talking too much or I'm not talking enough or that sort of turn taking, which is a typical ADHD thing. And I didn't know that's what it was,

but it would make me really, my internal monologue would always be going like, you're annoying this person, why are you annoying this person? You know, and I couldn't, whereas on a stage, I don't have to worry about taking turns. I don't have to, it's always my turn to speak. I've got their attention and I know I'm allowed to talk for 20 minutes and it's fine. No one's going to be like, well, she banged on about herself a bit. Because that's literally my job. So it takes that anxiety away a little bit. That's not to say I don't get nervous about gigs because I do.

And I'm the worst person. I'm one of those people who will infect everyone else with their nerves. So, you know, other comics would be sat backstage and they're feeling fine about the gig. And I'll come in and go, God, this audience look a bit rough, don't they? You know, and then suddenly they're as nervous as I am. So I have to be really self-aware about that. And if I'm really nervous, just take myself away from the other acts so I don't infect them. Are you quite a pessimist, Angela?

I think I am, but I don't mind it because I think if you're a pessimist, you're rarely disappointed. You're only ever pleasantly surprised. Yeah. You know, if you go through life expecting the worst outcome, then when it doesn't happen, that's great. But when it does, well, you knew it was going to happen. So you were prepared for it. It might seem a bit bleak, but it's to serve me. well. So your career really took off. It was around 2008, wasn't it? It was 2008 I started,

well it was 2009 I did, because I started off I did a stand-up comedy course, which I know people have got mixed sort of views about them. For me it was the only way I would have started because I used to book gigs. I knew a lot of comedians and the thought of getting up in front of them and failing, as we know, I've got a terrible thing. of failure and in front of people I knew and failing was just too much. So I thought if I do a course, I've got a safe space to have a go at this and see if I can do it. So my first gig was 2009. It was like the showcase at the end of the course at Comedia in Brighton.

And then I did, I think the turning point in 2011 I won the BBC New Comedy Award. Did you hear that noise? No, did I miss something? Oh, I don't Oh, I'm so sorry I called you by mistake in my bag, I'll turn the phone off, I do apologise I missed Iiled, yeah, I'm so sorry

Thank you I will do, thank you, bye-bye So emergency services accident Oh, look So I just called the emergency services Wait for the police, the SWAT team to turn up now By mistake God, what if they've been listening to our conversation?

That'd be hilarious. Oh, these two women banging on about. And also, what they will have heard, whilst they were on hold, listening to our conversation, was Angela saying, I prefer to be a pessimist. Oh, my God, they probably think something,

I'm planning something awful in the woods. They've triangulated where your phone is. Oh, no. Because that way you don't get disappointed. That's definitely the words of someone who's about to do something terrible in the woods, isn't it? I mean, it's awful. Oh, dear.

Oh my God. They must get that all the time. Yeah, they must get that all the time. Let's go down here. Sorry, yeah, what were we? Oh, we were rudely interrupted by 999. Can I just apologise to everyone at the emergency services? Yeah, that was an accident.

And we're not, you know, making light of it, obviously. No. But, yeah. So. So, yeah, that, yeah, 2011. 2011 I won the BBC New Comedy Award so that was the moment I sort of went Oh, maybe I can do this you know enough comedians to know that we're we're not the most Well, there's two types of comedians. They're the ones who do think they're brilliant and the ones who will never think they're any good at all

I think when you when you start out and you're on the open mic circuit and God bless them you know, there's a lot of slightly deluded people on the open mic circuit in comedy that get up week after week for a decade and and get no response from an audience and yet still think they've done all right and carry on. And so I would get up at the same gigs and, you know, do... I wasn't great. No one's great when they start out. But then I was like, well, am I deluded?

Like these people, you know, am I hearing laughs that aren't really there? Am I... You've got no way, really, of knowing how well you're doing. And so it wasn't until somebody else suggested that I entered the New Comedy Award in, yeah, 10 years ago. And I went, oh, I don't know if I'm ready for that. And it was an agent, not my agent, but an agent who happened to be at the gig, he said,

because I didn't have an agent at the time. He said, I think you should. So I sort of did on a bit of a win. And then I ended up winning it. And that was kind of my sort of, oh, okay, well, maybe this can be a job eventually. You know, maybe this isn't just a hobby now. Maybe this is something else. And it was another couple of years before I gave up the day job entirely.

But that was, yeah, the sort of. moment where you go, oh, other people think I'm all right at this. Oh, look at that lovely. Oh, it's an old fellow, isn't it? You're an old fella? Oh, I thought that was a man you were saying that too. I meant the dog. I was going to say to his 40s.

Actually, you want to be so careful saying it's an old fella. Go on get my stuff for so much trouble. And since then, I mean, I first became aware of you on mock the week, which you're so brilliant on. Thank you. I know people do talk about that show being intimidating and terrifying and a bare fit and having such respect for the people that do it. And you've always said you enjoy it and you don't experience that. Yeah, I think it's changed a lot of the show.

I think in its early days when it was, let's face it, all men, all young men, or hungry young men trying to prove themselves on the show, that it was a difficult show to do. and then, you know, you'd have the... Occasionally they'd allow token women to come on the show and they're suddenly faced with this very alpha male energy and that's hard.

You know, and also because we're used to... When you put on a stand-up show, we're not in competition with each other in a comedy club. You know, we're putting on a show together and there's a nice camaraderie and then suddenly if you're in an environment where suddenly you feel you're competing with your peers.

Yeah. It's just not a nice feeling, really. And I think, like Dara will say now, The show is completely different, largely because him and Hugh have got older and they can't be bothered with it. And also because there's more women on the show, so that just brings a different energy. And the young comics aren't behaving that way so much now. I think there's an understanding that a panel show is better when everyone works together to make it good, rather than trying to just outdo each other.

Yeah. You know, there are long recordings, what the week. They can be three hours long for, you know, half an hour show. and so a lot of what you do in that recording won't make the edit, it won't be in the final show and it can be exhausting if it's three hours of just battle and I think everyone's realised that now and so it just isn't anymore it's just it's nice

it's hard work because we cover a lot there's a lot of stories to cover and things what you see in the final edit is a real tip of the iceberg and if you come to a recording of Mott the Week I think people come to the recording think oh that'll be a nice half an hour in a TV studio three hours later they're still sat there going, I'm missing my bus. It's a slug of a show suit, so it can be tiring and it can be,

and because it's topical, you know, you're preparing right up to the minute for it. Come here, Tina. But yeah, that's interesting what you say about Mock the Week. Because I, I mean, I feel, I'm a huge fan of yours and I love your work and I am always, whenever I see your name, I often, you're the kind of person, I will type your name into podcasts. Oh, bless you. Just to see, oh, I feel like Sam Angela. Because I know if you're on it, I'll like it. And I want to mention a really brilliant podcast you do, which I hugely recommend.

I'm going to... We had some people passing there. And it was a bit... I'm a bit embarrassed. I was a bit like, oh, they're looking at me. I think you're quite self-effacing, and you wouldn't like to be boastful. Is that...

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not at that level of... You know, I'm not famous, and I don't get recognised very often, but sometimes people will realise that they recognise me but not know where from or who I am and then they'll think that they've worked with me is the main one.

But have we worked? I know you, don't know, I think we've worked together. And I'm so embarrassed to say, do you watch Motta Week or you might have seen me on whatever. And then I do think, well, what if what if it is that we just use the same ASTA? You know, what if it is that? And it isn't that they've seen me on What the Week,

then I'll sound like a right idiot if I've gone, well, actually, do you watch telly? You know? so I find the whole thing really awkward oh here we are we're at the map read what it says Angela oh the old Stammer orchard oh there's like a big greenhouse

around here that sounds like such a euphemism I'm having problems with me old Stamner orchard eh your old Stamner Orchard playing up again is it I think they gross cranberries Oh dear So you did a brilliant podcast

with John O'Farrell. Yes. And it's called We Are History. Yes. And I so recommend it to everyone because it's really fascinating. And you tackle subjects. I mean, I was listening to one recently you did on Robert Maxwell. Oh, yes.

And then you'll do one on the Winter of Discontent or Watergate. Yeah. But what's so brilliant is that you learn so much. It's kind of chatty and funny. But you come away really learning about a subject. It's like you have a really smart couple of friends who've told you. The sort of vibe we want is the kind of, like we're chatting down the pub. You know, because John and I both love a beer, and we talk about that quite a lot on the podcast.

And we both love a pub. And particularly during the pandemic, when we couldn't go to the pub. It was, we wanted to sort of create that. But so I never studied history. I did history, GCSE, I think I got B. And then that was it. And so. I approached John

so John O'Farrell if you don't know he's he was like one of the lead writers on the original spitting image very funny written lots of funny books lots of novels and he and I were sort of Twitter friends he'd come to see a show of mine in Edinburgh and had written a nice tweet about it and I sort of

tweeted him say thank you and I was a fan of his history books he'd written some sort of silly history books that I'd listened to the audio books of in my car when I was driving to gigs I really wanted to do a history podcast because I sort of as an or become a bit of a history nerd. And so I just thought,

if you don't ask you, don't get. So I sort of messaged him on Twitter a few years ago. So I really want to do a history podcast. Do you fancy doing it with me? And he said yes. And that was that. That's a real lesson, isn't it? It's our real passion, like,

it's the thing I love doing most and the thing that pays me least, which is always the way, isn't it? We lose money on it, but we love doing it. And it's a lot of research. It's a lot of reading and a lot of prep. but yeah people seem to really like it and I think people who might not have thought they'd like a history podcast quite like it because you sort of learn by stealth yeah really it's it's sort of it's two people who are quite funny chatting in a sort of funny way about serious things

I love it so much you know what else I need to ask you about yeah I'm so excited because I saw your wedding pictures It just looked so lovely. Do you know, it was a mad day. It was beautiful. So we got married in September, 2021, and it was just after all the restrictions had been lifted from the pandemic. So we could have the wedding we wanted.

And we were so lucky because we hadn't had to move the day. And we were super lucky. And we had, we got married, we had a humanist ceremony in the meeting house at Sussex Uni, which is I love a bit of brutalist architecture. I love concrete. My wedding ring is made of concrete. And the concrete, the aggregate for the concrete is Brighton Beach Pebbles.

And your other half has the Berlin Wall. And the other half, he has the Berlin Wall as cufflinks. But we both have a concrete wedding. And I've got my engagement ring also a square of concrete. So I just love concrete buildings and a bit of brutalism. So at the Meeting House at Sussex University, it's a Basil Spence designed sort of 19, early 70s building, like a circular concrete building with these amazing stained glass windows that are just really colourful. So we had the ceremony in there and that no, you're not going to meet.

that plantina I know you want to but I'm not going to let you. But it was basically like a little festival in a field in Lewis on the Downs and it was a beautiful sunny weekend. I mean it couldn't have been more perfect but the day was very difficult because

and you might not have known this from the social media I don't know but my really good friend and was also my tour support Phil Gerard who was going to be a witness at our wedding he sadly passed away on the morning of my wedding and he's one of my best friends and he had cancer and he'd been really poorly and sort of knew it was coming but we

didn't think it was coming that quickly and two days before my wedding we had to do the registry office bit because it was a humanist wedding so we went to do that and I we were just sort of having a bit of lunch afterwards so we were illegally married and and like I say Phil was going to be one of our witnesses and sadly just wasn't well enough to do that so we said well we'll go and do it and then we'll come and see you afterwards And he just the day before, he'd just really dramatically taken a bit of a turn. And we went to see him, well, we just sort of got a call. We were having some lunch after the ceremony and just said, you know, think it might be today.

So we went and saw him. And, you know, I'm really glad we did because we sort of had our, I wasn't in my wedding dress, but I still had a nice dress on and Matt was in a zoo. And we were sort of, you know, so he was part of that day. And then, yeah, sadly, I got the call sort of 20 past five on the morning in my wedding. got a text that said he'd gone. And it was, it was, I just didn't really know what to do because you sort of think, am I supposed to cancel my wedding?

Like my best friends just, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do. And then his wife, who's also a good friend, she saw, she got in touch and she said, you know, Phil would be really upset if he thought he'd ruined your wedding day. You have to go and, her exact words were, you have to go and smash this wedding, you know. And in a strange way, it's hard to describe. but it somehow made perfect sense that it happened on that day. I think if it happened any other day, a lot of his friends were at that wedding,

a lot of people who knew and loved him. He was also tour support for Ramesh. Ron was at the wedding. You know, we were all together. And if he died, say, on the Sunday, we might have all been in different places, you know, and not knowing what to do with ourselves. But as it was, we were at an event where we were celebrating something

and him and Beck were very much became part of the, you know, we talked about them in our speeches we very much made them part of the day even though they weren't there so in a way it all sort of made sense and he was part of our day you know it's funny because we're both with the same agent and as she said to me that morning his agent said to me you know half expecting him to phone me and go Angela I've really messed up here I need you to sort this out but yeah it was it oh Angela well how So it was a day sort of tinged with sadness, but just a beautiful, beautiful day.

And in some ways made, just made it more special and made you make the most of it more. Because you just go, well, you never know, do you what's around the corner? Exactly. Yeah. What a special day that you will associate him with that day. Absolutely. He was part of it. Mind out, too.

Yeah. And I get the sense as well that you really feel when you met your husband, that it was that sense of what took you so long. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we were in our late 30s when we met. And we didn't, you know, he proposed to me week one of lockdown one, which was a brave move, really, because only, you know, we'd never spent that much time together as it turned out it was fine.

But he, and he had three hilarious failed proposal attempts, but he finally managed it. And, yeah, I think, because we've both, been we've been together sort of seven years and we both had that kind of particularly him I think at the first like well if you haven't got kids what's the point really and getting married and then it was his friend Andy who was also his best man got married and we went to their wedding and suddenly it was like for both of us really it was a bit of a click moment it's a bit of a oh I get it now I see it was such a beautiful wedding and I think for us it was a sort of way of going because we you know we met a bit

old us we've both got a history both got a past and for us the wedding was a way of going this is the real one this is the this is different to the others you know this is the one we mean and it was just it was incredible and we we both of us thought you know oh we'll get married and then we just go back to exactly the same life and it'll feel the same and but it does it something changes it's really hard to explain what would he say is it matt your partner matt yeah what would Matt say if I said to him what's the what thing do you have to manage most about Angela oh my God where would you begin he is very good at managing my so like I say I'm always the person who affects everyone with my nerves and part of my sort of

process if you like for performing yeah I've learned is I the pessimistic me I have to imagine the worst case scenario so every gig I do every show I do every panel show I do, everything, I sort of go, think of all the reasons why it's going to be a disaster. And I have to go through all the reasons why it's going to be a disaster, say them out loud, make sure everyone knows that I know it's going to be a disaster. And then it's fine. So Matt used to, when we first started, you got together, you know,

he used to go, you'll be great, you'll be fine, you know, try and, and I'd be like, you don't understand, you don't get it, just stop, you know, it's not that easy, it's all right for you to say. Whereas now, I'll go, oh, it's going to be a disaster, and go, yeah, it might be. And that's exactly what I need is someone just to point out, know, just go, yeah, it might be a disaster, but you know, it's your job, so just do it. And that's exactly the right thing to do.

But would he say, if I said to him, what one thing would make your life easier if Angela was a little bit less? Oh my God, Angela? But she's just a little bit less, everything. Just a little bit less. He's very steady, Matt. Like, he's very consistent, very steady, which is very good for me. And I often think, what is he getting out of this? because I'm just, you know, up and down all over the place.

I think he would like it if I was a bit, yeah, maybe a bit less history on it. A bit less. Yeah, just a bit less. I often ask people. I don't feel I have to, I would worry about asking you this. Sometimes I say to people, have you had therapy? And I worry that they feel that's a bit of a private thing to ask. So please don't feel you have to answer it.

Oh, I don't mind at all. I mean, I've had shed loads. I've had, I say shed loads, I sort of, I've never been the sort of, I've never had kind of psychotherapy or proper, I've had lots of, um, uh, like in my twenties, I was really quite unwell mentally. And, and again, you know, I was misdiagnosed for 30 years with a sort of depression at one point with bipolar, with lots of, you know, I was on, I was medicated for depression for so long. Um, and, you know, I spent, time in hospital, I spent time just in a bad way. And so I had lots of interventions, if you like in my 20s. I had like CBT. I had crisis teams. I had all sorts of things. So that stuff, I sort of, it feels like a different me, really, when I talk about it. And the main thing for me has been the ADHD diagnosis has really made sense of all of that. Because what the, the, the, the depression and the anxiety and the all came from a frustration of not being like everyone else and

not understanding why I wasn't not meeting the same arbitrary life goals not settling down not being content not being you know and and I couldn't work out why everyone else was able to do it and I wasn't and just having a reason for it now has been I mean my when I had my assessment and the psychiatrist that I'm you know with now he's so brilliant and he's so it's just shone a light on so many things that it's not that I wasn't depressed it was that I was depressed but the root cause of it was never examined you know and I think part of that is to do with gender I think very often for women's depressed it's given an antidepressants then that fixes it rather than looking at you know

well why and particularly if there isn't a very obvious reason why you know somebody's bereaved or if something a big life event has happened or whatever it can be very obvious why someone's depressed. Hello lovely to see you! Yeah, my trouble. A lovely time, yeah. Occasionally. That's right, yeah.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was just saying, I said, no one ever recognises me. They think they've worked with me. That's what I'm... Take it, have a good day. Bye-bye. Come on you, too.

There's a story I read once that I loved that you told, was when you'd had a one-night stand. I don't know if it was a one-night stand, but you'd had a romantic encounter, and you said you went on the tube and you were so happy because someone recognized you. I was with him, but it made me look really good.

It was funny. When I went on my first date with Matt, because we met online, and I hadn't said that I was a comedian. I hadn't mentioned that. before the date. And this is, what, eight years ago. And we went on the date.

And of course, then we talked on the date and everything. And because Matt is a good-looking boy, and he's very sporty, well, he's very athletic. He does ultramarisons and things. And he just got back from a climbing holiday in Spain. He was all tanned and musley. And I walked in on this date and saw him and just immediately went,

well, there's no way this guy's going to be into me. Just no way. Like, it's completely different to anyone I'd ever, date it, you know, and to the point where I remember going to the loose and taking my spanks off. So I was like, what's the point? No point in pretending anything here. This is going to be one date and you're going to go home and that'll be that. And we had a, you know, we just chatted in this pub. And then at the end of the day, he said, I'd really like to see you again. And I went, are you sure? He always reminds me of that. Then that's right. Then he went home from the date.

And of course I'd said I was a comedian by that point. But I sort of, then I'd done a bit of tell you then I think I'd start I'd done one mock the week I'd done a bit of stuff but I was about to do a run of shows at Soho Theatre the following week and I'd sort of really underplayed you know I think he went away thinking it was maybe like a little hobby I had or something I don't know and sort of on the on the way home I didn't know but he was on the mailing list of the Soho Theatre website and he got an email advertising my show to him on the way he was like hang on a minute it's a girl I've just met in the pub he's like I did ask you for a second date before I saw that

Do you think sometimes that it's when you think you're worthy of something that that comes into your life? Do you know what to mean? That sometimes you feel ready for that person or for a good thing to happen to you because you start to believe you deserve it. So you might have met him years ago, but you might have found a way for that not to happen. I think so. I mean, I've had one of my biggest hang-ups forever, and we've talked about this before, always, you know, about my, the way I look.

And I've all, that's always been what, whatever issues I've had, that's what they've hung on is sort of not being pleased to how I look. And so when I was younger, and this is something as well that it's so funny, isn't it, how you view situations, how other people view situations. Because if a guy spoke to me when I was younger, particularly if he was a good looking guy or if he was, my default was that he was taking the piss, that he was, you know, talking to me for a bet. Or was, you know, one of those situations. And I had this, unbeknownst to me, but I had this reputation amongst our friends of being like a bit of an ice queen to the boys because I would be, I was shy and didn't want to talk to them. And they thought I was just cold. You know, whereas actually I just thought I was protecting myself from them the obvious, the inevitable humiliation they were going to cause me. You know, come on, we're going this way. Come on.

I know you like men in high viz, but we're going this way. Don't we all, teens? Oh yes. And I think it was only. How interesting that was the armour you were putting up. Yeah, and I had no idea that that's how people saw me. I thought people thought I was shy, maybe you're quiet or whatever, but I didn't realise they thought I was cold.

Because my friends knew I wasn't cold. They knew I wasn't a cold person, but I just, that was my, like, yeah, you're not going to fool me. You know, I'm not going to let you do that to me, so I'm just going to be aloof. So, yeah, I think then what stand-up comedy gave me was, confidence, but it was also an opportunity. This isn't necessarily healthy. I'm really glad that young female comics don't do this now.

But I think comics certainly in my age and older, what we do is we go out there and make all the jokes about ourselves and the way we look before anyone else can. You know? Be like, yes, I'm overweight. Yes, I look like this. Yes, I blah, blah. All the self-deprecating stuff,

because that was our way of going, we do know we're not beautiful. We do know we're not perfect. We do know so you can't get us. with that because we'll get there first. And while that is great for comedy, you do sort of, it's not necessarily a healthy way to be. Well, do you think also there's a difference between men doing that and women doing that,

that when men laugh at their appearance, that's not how men are valued and judged every single day of their lives. They're going to, you know, they're not going to not get on tell you because they've got a potbelly. You know? I always get disappointed now when I turn up to do a radio show. And they're like, we just give just pictures for socials. You're like, the one thing I love about doing radio is that I don't have to brush my hair, you know.

Can I just say, we do take pictures for socials, but can I just say we might well crop you out? Because we don't care about you, all we care about is Tina. Exactly. And who wouldn't take, I mean, I don't mind Tina being objectified for her beauty, because she is stunning. You could go.

You're just, you're my baby. It's funny, isn't it, how I do think that if you have a dog and don't have children, your relationship with your dog's very different. A lot of people ask me if it's a child substitute. Yeah. And I always say, no, it's a dog. Yeah. I see, and she's better than a child.

It's not a substitute. She's better, because she's never going to grow up to hate me. It's great. It's brilliant. I never had the calling to be a mother. It never came for me, really. It was not, you know. But what I think surprised me and that,

who felt very much the same about children as I did, that there was clearly something inane. in us that's out of our control that she has awoken that we didn't really know was there and I think that's why if you haven't got kids but you have a dog you do get a bit you know we we swore we'd never be mummy and daddy but we're blooming are we are with those people and we every time we say it we hate ourselves but it's like it's just woken this beast in us we didn't know sometimes I'll be with Ray and I'll be picking off his poo and so I'll be walking fast and I'll say are you mummy's good boy you mommy's good boy. I need to hear your Tina voice.

It's just Gina and then Tina talks back obviously because we talk to each other through Tina. All right Dad, all right Dad, yeah. I've had a lovely walking mummy yeah. She talks a bit like that. She's very Kent. She was born in Kent as well so yeah that's Tina's voice isn't it? Yeah. Angela we've loved to let Tina say goodbye say bye Emily. Would you like you should bring Raymond next time? Oh yeah I reckon we'd get on all right wouldn't you? Would you like Raymond? I think nothing really.

It's a really nice fit for you. Angela, I've loved our walk. Will you give me a hug? Oh, thank you so much. It was really lovely. And, um, well, you get to you, can I say goodbye to Tina, but I want Tina to say goodbye to me. Come on Tina. She knows we're about to get in the car.

She didn't like it. So she's a bit like, I know, I've seen the car and I'm not happy. Oh, boy, Emily, yeah, I've had a lovely day. Thanks. Thanks, Emily, for the walk and that. And, yeah, I like a bit when I ran through the leaves. That was nice, wouldn't it? Yeah, I like that bit.

Yeah. I'm going to go and see my dad now. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about my poos. I did a lot of poos. Sorry about that. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.