Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Angela Scanlon

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

This week Emily and Ray went for a walk around Highgate Wood with Angela Scanlon. They chatted about growing up with red hair, how Angela got into performing, how she felt she was winging her first time presenting The One Show, and her new book, Joyrider. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We're in Highgate Woods, which is near... Not far. Weirdly. You're better at this than me. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I were on home turf in North London's Highgatewood, the TV presenter, radio broadcaster, Instagram Queen, and now author Angela Scanlan. I first met Angela briefly a couple of years ago at a radio studio,

and I instantly got just this really good energy from her. She struck me as so genuine and kind of unshow busy and just very warm. So I have been dying to get her on my podcast. But the woman has been pretty busy raising two daughters, fronting the BBC's Your Home Made Perfect, and now writing an incredibly brilliant memoir and sort of guide to life called Joyrider. Angela doesn't have a dog, but that's all right.

We still love her. And having seen both her kids' reaction to Raymond, I give it a weak love. I had the best time with Angela. She just exudes this very relaxed sort of positive energy. I can't explain it. It's kind of impossible to be stressed around her, though. She told me about her childhood growing up in a large family of women

and how having that beautiful red hair kind of made her feel a bit other out in the world. She also chatted about how she got into performing and how she kind of winged it when she got her huge TV break on The One Show. Apologies to Angela's mum, by the way, who didn't think she should admit that publicly. I love it.

We also chatted about Angela's brilliant new book Joyrider, as I say, which I totally recommend. There's some really heartfelt honesty in it. And she just writes very movingly about important stuff that's happened in her life, her eating disorder, the work she's done on herself in therapy. But it's also really warm and funny. and, well, just very Angela.

Raymond and I utterly adored our walk with Angela. And I got to sing a special lullaby inspired by Raymond to one of her daughters. I know you will love it too. I mean, the podcast, not the lullaby. That's a work in progress. I'll stop talking and hand over to the woman herself. Here's Angela.

And Raymond. Come on, Raymond. Come on, you little. It's his little furry bum is the cutest, and I've never said that. about anyone before. Why, Angela, should we go this way or that way? I think we go to the wild open spaces

and then we'll like hang back into the woodland, yeah? That sounds like my ideal date. Now, just to warn you, Raymond does a lot of this. Just like loitering. It's like he's browsing in Zara and has a sale on. I can relate to that. Hard relate, Raymond.

Don't buy the cashmere, FYI. I have so much respect for this because he's like, he's kind of so in his own worth that he's like, they can wait, dickheads. I'm just going to sit here and do whatever the hell I want. For as long as I want, there's a queen in there. Isn't there? Raymond, come on.

We're so lucky. We've got such a lovely walking companion today. Angela, I'm going to have to introduce you. Go on then. I say I'm going to have to, like it's some terrible obligation. I love that you're doing this. on the fly with no paper. I mean, I know we're walking.

It would look a bit weird. What did you? Oh yeah. No, I like it to be quite organic. Yeah, grand. Let's see what comes out. Go first. I'm really intrigued.

Whenever people say they're intrigued, there has been concerned. Slightly, but I'm into it. Go. I'm so thrilled to have this woman on my podcast today. I'm with the very wonderful TV presenter, podcaster. And now, soon to be best-selling author, Angela Scanlitt.

Hey, girl. We're in Highgate Woods, which is near not far. Weirdly. You're better at this than me. Full disclosure, you've turned up without a dog, but I still love you. Yeah. And I love dogs. And I've been very nice to Raymond, I feel, so far.

So we're fine. And also I'm local and you needed someone for this week. So it's all worked out really well. Synchronicities all over the shop. Oh, they've the same hair. There is the cutest little boy with a mop of hair just like Raymond's. And another little one, hi there. I like your Christmas jumper.

Hello. I like people who stay in the Christmas spirit. My daughter is wearing her Christmas pyjamas. What month is it? It's, you know, not Christmas. How are you guys? See, dogs are just like magnets, aren't you? they, bye. Bye. I hope they have sun cream on. I get very worried. I think they make you a bit friendlier.

Yeah, but a bit more open. You couldn't be any friendlier and more I think. Oh no, no, no, no. In real life, I say, the devil. No, I'm quite antisocial. Are you? Yeah. Like, I'll put my, my, my, my blockers on and you know, don't, don't come near me. Like, okay, so for example, I do a show called your homemade perfect, right, on, BBC 2, it's an architecture, like virtual reality show. You don't need to tell me what it is. I happen to love it. Oh, do you? Great. Okay.

Well, I'm going to show you the egomaniac that I am. Laura Jane Clark is one of the fabulous architects on it. Wherever we go together, when we film now, people are like, hi, Laura. They literally just walk by me. And I'm like, do I look really unfriendly? Or do I just look really shit? So she's like, you must get that all the time, dear.

And I say, absolutely not. No one comes near me. I don't know whether it's my aura that I omit is like, back off, please. Maybe you just have healthy boundaries. Yeah, maybe. Oh, look at that cute one. Oh, she's lovely. I think it's a he actually.

Well, you got, no, I didn't see the balls. I'm just looking at the face. We're talking about a dog, I should say. Thanks. Very nice dignified elderly gentleman. Oh, we could go through, or should we go this way? Should we go on the woods or this way? Yeah.

What do you think? I think we go this way. Okay, I trust you. Yeah. So, you don't have a dog. I don't have a dog. But do you like dogs? I do like dogs.

I'm, okay, so, like, our old family friends were real dog people, okay? And I judge, like, the level, like, proper dog lovers let their dogs touch their own tongues. Okay, I, which makes me feel like I'm not in my bones. dog person but that feels just like an extreme like expression of dog love. Yeah, yeah. So I want, do you lick Raymond? No further questions at this time. Okay. Do you, did you grow up with those? Yes, we grew up with the dog called Daisy. She ran away. I feel still deeply ashamed. I'm like, how did that happen? Now that's the story. Who knows what happens? I'm one of four girls we lived in the country and I do think

there's a real difference between how dogs are seen over here in a city versus how dogs are seen. Not that I grew up on a farm, but like animals live outside, they eat the scraps. Here, they're literally run the show. So it's quite different. It's quite different. And this is in Ireland, we should say. Yes, this is in Ireland. I say we should say, if anyone hasn't worked that out, I don't know, I can't help you. Exactly. And whereabouts is this, Angela? It's me. Not meh, meh. Meath. No, no.

But everyone says meeth is maybe a better pronunciation of it, but meh, it's a bit softer maybe in our accent. And so you had Daisy? Daisy was a tiny dog. Black. That's also how I described cars. What kind of car is it red? Small black dog.

That was my overriding memory. We then moved on to a Labrador, Golden Labrador, who was absolutely wild as they are. Okay, so here's the thing. My youngest sister. Annette was terrified of animals. Terrified. Like screamed, wailed, everything. My dad thought he hadn't read Philippa Perry's book about parenting. Parenting. I can't even say it. I wonder how mine is going to turn out. And he said, he basically surprised her. Now she's his favorite. So it was a gesture of love, but he surprised her with a little puppy, a golden Labrador. And, um,

She nearly lost her bloody life. Anyway, the Labrador's quite giddy and used to be in the back garden, but like on a big lead. I don't know if we could, is that really bad to say? I've had worse on this punk off. So, but I will never forget. I once went out to the garden. The dog was obviously really pissed off that he was on this lead.

And he wrapped me around the pole with the lead, very clever little one. So they came out. My family came out to me wailing, having been wrapped around and like yoinked to the ground and him on top of me. I mean, if I was into tonguing dogs, it would have been right up my street. But I'm not. So it was kind of weird. And then we do have a dog now.

I say we, I don't live there anymore, but my parents have a dog called Sandy. We're very much to say what you see with the naming of dogs. I want to know a bit about the Scanlan House. I mean, I feel like I've painted quite a clear picture. I'm sensing noisy, lively. Yeah. Like a little chaotic, I would say. But fun, mostly fun, four girls, and like very outdoorsy.

I say outdoorsy, not in the like, you know, anorak and camping, just like, go out there and come back when it's dark. So we had like huts and stuff like, I think it's why I feel quite relaxed in a woodland area. And as you say, there were four girls. Four, yeah, I'm second from the top. And were you close to all your siblings? Yeah, I mean, like, we're very close in age in that.

I think there was four of us under six at one point in time. And I don't know whether it's the number four, but you tend to like pair off with different ones at certain points in your life depending on where you are. So yeah, you always had a like a sidekick, I suppose. Myself and my older sister had a trixie relationship. Christine, love you. Yeah. We're thick as thieves now, but it was, there was only 18 months between us.

And I think now that I've had a second and I can see my oldest daughter being like, are you fucking? and having a laugh. This one's staying. Like it's a real shock to the system. I mean, that must feel like your world has turned on its axis when that happens. Well, the midwife said to me, she was like, oh, be really

gentle. Now, I'm hypersensitive to it, maybe a little too much so, but she was like, imagine you arrive home and your husband's in bed with another woman. I was like, okay. And she said, but instead of telling her to get out the door, you have to say, isn't she gorgeous?

You have to mind her and love her and be kind to her and she's never leaving. You're like, okay, sorry, I'm supposed to be happy about this. As an older kid, that's quite the kick in the tits, isn't it? It's a painful lesson, but it's probably not a bad thing to learn. Yes. In some ways. Yeah, that you're not the centre of the university. Some people will never learn it.

I could be in that part of the Vennigra. And I've obviously read your wonderful book, Joyrider. Thank you for A reading us, because, you know, I have often skimmed. Oh, it's so good. And it's handily, it touches on a lot of, I suppose, autobiographical stuff as well. There's elements of that. And we'll talk a bit more in depth about it, because I really did love it, as I say, and you're a phenomenally talented writer, right?

Oh, my God, you're going to make me cry. Thank you. Oh, this early on. I know. I haven't even got started. We haven't even put whiskey in her coffee yet. There are some sort of themes that, you know, interesting to do with your childhood. And you spoke in your book, which I found fascinating about, you know, you've obviously got this beautiful red hair, which I'm very covetous of.

I always wanted to have red hair. Did you? Yeah. Really? That's so interesting to me. Because I just think our age group, people are like redheads, you know. Like I say in the book, you're not. really on the list. What do you mean by that? I mean like I'd have heard lads in school

go and oh I like blondes oh no I love brunettes like you're literally not on the list. It made you feel I can see that it made you feel slightly other in a way. Yeah and then as time went on I kind of and I only realized this in hindsight but I became fiercely protective of it but in a kind of like it made me feel very special and very odd at the same time, which, yeah, is like heady and confusing. But I do love my red hair. I think it was just at the time as a teenager,

you just kind of want to copy and paste. And I wanted, like, you know, tanned, gorgeous skin with no freckles. And I wanted to be able to have highlights, like everybody else had highlights. And I couldn't. I was like, oh no. I've seen how that looks. A redhead would highlights.

I mean, just Google. Yeah, I think you pick it up. And it was a very narrow, like, representation, if that's the word, of what beauty was that time. So Brunette was, like, bookish. Still hotter than Redhead, but, like, a bit bookish. It was the, like, best friend. Everyone wanted to be the blonde bombshell.

That was what sexy was if you were a teenager in the 90s. Tell me about... Your parents? My dad is a builder. He's one of 14. Yeah. One of 14. He falls somewhere in the middle now.

I'd have to go through the names and I wouldn't dare. Or would I. Yeah, so he's one of 14. Was born in Mayo. How familiar are you with Ireland? I know it reasonably well. I mean, I love it. I know Dublin.

So me this close to Dublin. Yeah. But Mayo is as far away from Dublin as you can get, in every sense of the word. I used to have an Irish boyfriend and what I love. Where was he from? What I loved is that his mother, he said, oh, Sadie thinks she's a cut above because she's from Waterford. And she'd say, it's where the crystals from? Well, also her name is Sadie, so she was posh.

I mean, she was not one of the Marion years. Do you know what I mean? Have you heard of the Marion years? Actually, I don't even know. There's something to do with the Pope. everyone who was born in 1954 was called Marion, including my mother. But Sadie, if you're Sadie from Waterford, she probably was a bit fancy. So were your folks, I mean it's so weird, isn't it?

And people are, you know, what class you were. It's like, but were you, did you, how did you perceive? So, okay, I think I was completely unaware of what class was until I came over to this country. And I think that's something that a lot of Irish people relate to, or Aussies, anyone who's not English, frankly. Maybe the French have a bit of that old money thing. But by and large, there's a bit of it, but there's not really much of it. Or if there is, they're very other to the vast majority of people in Ireland, I think. But my dad, like, you know, went to England, left school really early, came to England to work.

You know, not by choice like I was able to do, but because there was nothing for him to do. And he did really well for himself. He, like, created a business. He had, he, you know, built a construction company and did property development for a long time. Did you have one parent you were slightly closer to or more bonded with, do you think? Oh, I think I was probably, it's probably my mom.

Like, I think I'm probably very like my dad in many ways. but it was a bit more traditional in that my dad was out working and my mom was at home with us so we were there and like I was probably slightly unhealthily dependent on my mom

for a long time but then I guess if that's spread out over four of you it probably doesn't develop into full-blown enmeshment yeah that's true I mean it's close enough I'm going to say

we're all there. Yeah. Yeah, there is a bit of that. Oh, we've got a dog here, Angela. We do. She's lovely. Look at her now.

She could be called Sandy. Whereas actually our dog called Sandy is a bit more ginger. Now, you'll see, raise a bit standoffish, Angela. You see. He's a bit snooty. Yeah, it is. I'm going into it, though. He's discerning, you know.

And you guys are a bit of like. What? What a bit, touch me not. No, I think more the fring, like more the cascading hair. I was going visual, sorry. You'd have to have Alan Caustock, the red setter. Oh my God, I was in Alan's house the other day. Oh, my God.

What a nice man. He is divine, isn't he? I can see you'd get on with him. And he was hung over. The first time I'd met him properly. I met him in radio too, but he was there doing a show. You know you're always a bit like, oh, we're doing her thing. One of life's nice, guys.

He's fabulous. Fabulous. So I'm getting a bit of a picture of your childhood, but I wanted to know, were you an extrovert? Were you shy? So I think I presented as an extra, are you into astrology? No. Okay. So I'm Capricorn with my rising, sun rising, I was hoping you could help me out here, sun rising in Leo. Okay, so which means like, so your rising sign is how you present. into the world and your sun sign, I'm going to say, is like the true version of you.

So Capricorn's a bit more steady eddie, they're the goat, hardworking, extremely loyal, good sense of humor, but like they wouldn't be the life and sell the part, you'd find them in the corner having a chat. Leo on the other hand, they are like larger than life. Center stage all the time, little self-centered, like, but I can kind of, like, I think if you first meet me, think, oh, jazz hands. She's very happy on the stage. But actually I, so there was a real

tussle, I think, because I presented like that, I'm doing a jazz hands move for anyone who can't hear the little shuffle. But actually, I was quite, probably quite shy and still I'm a bit shy, which is hard to believe for people. But I think there's a kind of, or maybe, no, shyness is probably not the word. I think I was, I'm very, very sensitive human and as a child, that felt really overwhelming and really unacceptable actually. It was like, we don't have time now for this nonsense for you to be feeling everybody's feelings and for you to be feeling upset about seemingly, you know, normal everyday things. Yeah. So I kind of like, you know, toughened up and I, I became much more comfortable with that, like I call it, that jazz hands version of me,

felt much more attractive to people, much more sparkly, much more, that's what people wanted from me was how I, or what I believed. And so that the sensitive kind of side of me got kind of slowly buried, I suppose, you know, and it took a long time to dig her up. She's back, bitch. So yeah I do you think that's true of a lot of performers because I wonder whether in some ways the very nature of wanting to perform perhaps is there's an element of hiding I suppose because I think you're literally putting on you know a face going out doing the thing and then you know going home but but there's a real like lack of interest integration there and it becomes very confusing I think and quite exhausting to do those two like fine if you're conscious that you're going out you're performing it's a slightly amplified version of yourself but if there's a total disconnect between how you present and how you are at home then that's like who am who am I what am I none of it felt very um yeah it's it's confusing and you talk as I say and you're absolutely brilliant but which is

There's elements of memoir. Some of it, I mean, I was laughing because you were very funny writer as well. But there were some bits which really made me well up a bit. And you talked about your having an eating disorder. Yeah. I just think it's, I really respected you for writing about that. Because it's a tough thing I imagine to talk about, isn't it? Yeah.

It's a tough thing for loads of different reasons. And I've kind of, again, like that disconnect between those, you know, how you present and the reality. And I have kind of wanted to speak about it for ages and then I've been acutely aware that as soon as that comes out, you know, you're on the, like there's a picture of you at a party and you look one way or the other and there's an additional level of scrutiny that's given to you because you've, you know, shared this part of you, I suppose. So I kind of, I think you have to feel quite strong in yourself to share that. knowing that it may add scrutiny. But for me, I was like when I was in the kick of it, in the depths of it, I suppose, and it went on for a long time.

And like, you know, and I say I dabbled with it, but I was kind of introduced to it in school. And then, you know, into my 30s. So it was like 15 years, kind of. So it's a long time to be in the grips of something like that to a you know sometimes it was more sometimes it was less but I remember like now the only two people that I could relate to publicly were Karen Carpenter who died and Jerry Halliwell who and I remember she wrote in her book and

about you know rooting in George Michael's bin chocolate cake yeah and it was kind of ridiculed it was like oh my God what a picture of like beastly lack of control like a feral and it was it was ridiculed because there was such a lack of understanding around that and i was like oh my god those are those are the two poster girls for this so it's quite a shameful thing or or a scary thing on the one hand shameful on the other so i kind of just was like oh yeah no it's not like you don't want to be that girl and so yeah i so there was a lot of shame attached to it and for me there was a kind of i i found myself over the years consciously because it's so hidden, like a lot of addictions

or addictive behaviors are, they're so hidden. And then I was like, I really, really was trying to tell people, friends of mine as time went along, and I'd find myself sitting with nobody knowing about my history talking about, oh my God, she's such a pain in the arts, or she's so skinny, just fucking eat a burger. You know, this kind of, like,

just such a lack of understanding around such a sensitive, you know, psychological illness. because of course most of our socialising is based around consuming food and drink and every minute every day of your life you're confronted with it aren't you? Yeah because

and look I have never been addicted to drugs or to alcohol so I'm speaking without knowing but like there's very clear boundaries around those you know abstain from those in order to stay on the wagon so to speak

if food is your addiction of choice, I use that word lightly, but like whether that's overeating or baline or anorexia or whatever it is, it's literally every single day. You can't really go through a day without being challenged by, yeah, that addiction. So it is, it's a, it's a very tricky one and I think there's still not that much, you know, understanding truthfully around, around it. And it's frustrating for people to watch. Because You're like, I mean, people who give up booze who were once like the fun love and party girl. Like, I think that's problematic when they give up drinking.

And their friends are like, hello, why are you so boring now? You know, there's challenges with changing your life for people close to you. But yeah, food is, food, you know, can't live without it. Are you still aware of it? Is it something you still think, you know, that's always with you in a way? So I remember speaking to a friend who, I used to do Irish dancing and, I know, red hair, Irish I'm basically Jean Butler, and she, I remember her saying to me, she obviously recognised that, like, my patterns that I was going through the same thing as her.

She kind of, like, pulled me aside one night. And she wasn't somebody I really related to on a deep level, but I remember her saying, you know, this will be something we always have, like, and you just manage it and you just have to manage it. And I was like so affronted by that. Like I think in her mind there was a kind of comfort in the collective of knowing that, you know, we're together and there's a kind of, I don't know,

that she talked about it like a companion that she'd always have. And I was like absolutely not, are you kidding me? I have to live in this forever. no way and I felt really like so there was a real determination in me not to be in that little hole forever and but obviously that was very naive truthfully I'm like as if smell you later and so I just started I just started working too hard are we sitting he's running now come on maybe oh look I got butter in the little shop there I find myself if I ask for it, if I'm out somewhere and say,

Can I have some butter please? They're like, sorry, I like computer. It's not working. So I have to say, can I have some butter? Butter, please. So tell me about how you ended up in TV. I think it was secretly, I was like, oh, I think I'd quite like to perform. But there was no, I mean, it's so cliched, but like you got to see it to be it.

I, there was nobody on telly that I thought, oh, that's somebody who has a background similar to me, he looks like me, you know, obviously there's like a lot of white women on TV, but I didn't, there was nothing, I didn't relate to any of them. They all had like quite posh accents or whatever else. And so I, it just never, honestly never crossed my mind that I could do that. It just felt like a very foreign thing. And so, yeah, I, I think. there might have been whispers, but it was just like not really considered. And then I, I studied business in university. Were you quite academic then? I was kind of, like accidentally. Like, I mean, I did pretty well in my leaving cert, right, to the point where my mum, bless her, I have not forgiven her for this, when she added up my point, this is how the system works over there, she was like, oh no, no, no, that can't be right. And she re-added them. It was right, FYI. But like I remember people in my class going,

you did not, you did not get that. One guy, Mark Duffy, I love a good. He's moved on. He's really moved on. He was like, you did not get that. Show you're thick. And I think I kind of, you know, maybe that was my persona was like,

I was very giddy in school and I was kind of, I don't know about you, but I think, my fear was always the idea that people thought I cared or wanted something so I think I probably put on such a good act of not caring that they bought it yeah and actually I did passionately care and I wonder if that's something I don't know if that's something you recognize I totally relate to that and it's funny because Bray Brown has this I know I love her but she talks about how the denial of that doesn't make it any less painful when you don't get it it's just

more of a shock to you because you're like, oh my God, I really did want it. And also I think sometimes you stop yourself from trying that extra little bit because you're so afraid of like plaster, like of really wanting something and potentially not getting it that you go, none of it matters to me. So you're like, let's see what happens. And it's, yeah, it's a protection thing, isn't it? You know? But you ended up. Yes, sorry. It's quite my chance, wasn't it? It was. You were, yeah. I was doing personal shopping. Your personal shopping.

Where were you doing the personal shopping? In Dundrum, in Dublin, it was like quite a, like Westfield, basically. And I basically, I mean, I was such a hustler. I was, so personal shopping, while, like, the women were in the dressing room and in Oasis and I was fitting their jeans, I'd, like, run out and be like, can I get a size in that? But also, will you put those on that mannequin? I'll be in with a crew in, like, you. on my lunch break so I was producing these items while I was personal shop I didn't

know I was producing I was just like you know there's a mannequin there put her in a red dress because you know Drew Barrymore wore one last night in a red car and then you were doing it for TV and stuff yeah and I loved the TV side of things which happened totally accidentally because I was assisting the girl who was doing personal shopping and then they came to her and was like oh we want We just want an expert to talk about the Oscars, essentially. And so she was like, oh, come on, and we did it together. And it was live, and I remember thinking, oh, my God, because I danced.

So it was like that kind of rush of adrenaline, I guess, the kick of, oh, my God, this could all go gloriously wrong. And there's something very addictive about that, I think. But, yeah, TV felt immediately, like right. There's a lot of people on TV, but I honestly think there's only a handful of people that seem completely at home and they make you feel comfortable. I think Jonathan Ross is one. I think you're another. You're completely yourself, you're completely natural, you're not doing a TV voice. Yeah. And it's really interesting that. I think that's a quality that you've kind of either got or you haven't. Well, I think it's because I kind of wasn't aware of the way. the rules, you know, so I didn't know. I remember people saying afterwards, oh, did you, did you

go to presenting school? I was like, no, where's that? Like I would have if I knew it was a thing. I didn't realize I had to train. And then they told me that when you're speaking to camera, you're supposed to hold your hands like this, like a kind of 1920s portrait. And so you're holding your hands like this as you're talking. I'm like, oh my God, my hands are going 90. Clasped in front of you. Yeah, like a queenie kind of pose. And I was like, oh wow, oh yeah, no, I didn't, I don't know the rules. So I think maybe because I didn't, there was a freedom to that and then I just kept doing it.

Like I was really tenacious and I was really persistent and annoying, I'm sure. But like any time I found a little window where somebody worked in the industry, I was like, So I remember being booked to talk ironically about size zero and the effect on like eating in the noughties. I was like, I got you. I'll talk about this on a documentary. And the researcher, her mother worked in kids TV in RT. We're going out this. And actually we could go that way and the long way around.

Let's do that. And so I remember Lee, she said that, like just dropped it as a little nugget. I was like, okay. So I emailed her afterwards. I was like, I'd really, like it was really great to work with you, la la la. I'd really, it would be really great to meet your mum. And she said, you know what? My mum's great, but you're not for kids TV.

She was like, you need to meet my dad. I was like, okay. I was about to write her up now. No, no, no. She's like, you should meet my dad. I thought, grand, I'll meet anyone, frankly, right now. And it turns out, so I met this chap. We call him afterwards.

The lovely old Englishman, he's not. But I worked with him for years, still do. He's a guy called David Blake Knox, who worked alongside Ruby Wax for very many years. He produced Jerry Ryan in Ireland for years, like a brilliant, brilliant producer. Now, I knew none of this. and I had lunch with them and we had a little chat and he was like yeah like I'd love to work with you

it was only afterwards that I found out this guy is like amazing and so he was the first person so we worked up lots of fashion ideas at the time and he said to me and I had done this with other producers who I'd get in touch with and go

oh we can do a fashion program and they'd go we'll take that now and bring it into the commissioner and nothing would ever happen and I remember David's saying you need to come into the room and meet the commissioner and it was the first time I thought oh wow this feels it felt different so we went in

anyway we didn't get the show but I had another meeting with the commissioner where he told me by the way that show's not going to go ahead and it was kind of like nailing the coffin before we even got going and he said if there's anything else you know that you want to do definitely drop me line and I was like I want to do a documentary It's like, okay, I mean, I really have another meeting.

And I said, it's about redheads and it's called Oi Ginger. And it's exploring gingerism as the last remaining acceptable prejudice. So, yeah, basically, I said, I want to do this documentary. And he was like, okay, they had me kind of pegged as this, like, fashion type. This was Ooy Ginger, wasn't it? Yeah. This was OI Ginger. And so I was like, I honestly don't want to do fashion on telly.

But obviously that's what I was known for. And there was a credibility there. And so I said, O' Ginger. And he was like, okay, we made it. I had honestly the most fun I've ever had in my life. Vinny Byrne was the director. And I remember him saying, I was like, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?

I was like, just be yourself. And I didn't realize how important that was in that moment on so many levels. It was like, here I am with actual professionals who work in this gig, who are saying we trust you enough. to like follow your instincts, do your thing, we've got you. And it was, I mean, I was so lucky. There's something in your book, which again, I am fascinating, which is you talk about when you worked on the one show.

Yeah. You were covering Alex Jones's maternity leave, is that right? And you wrote about it in the book. It was so fascinating, Angela, because of course I would have had no idea watching you. I'm watching this thinking, God, she's great. You know, this must be a big gig, but she's so in control and of course behind the scenes as you write about you're kind of winging it weren't you i was like absolutely winging it so i mean this is the one thing that my

mom called me after she read the book and she said um now i just are you sure you want to write them she said how are the BBC going to feel about you saying that you basically light them and you didn't know what you were doing and i was like do you know what i think that I think they'll be fine. So anyway, I was doing, filming Robot Wars. I had, but it hadn't aired, so we'd just started filming it. And up until that point, really, I had done like a bit of behind the scenes for the voice. I had done the BAFTA's red carpet, I'd done tea in the park.

So like a little bit of live, right? Tiny, tiny, once, basically. And anyway, I was like, the one show, the one show, I was used to, in fashion and, like kind of pitching articles and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, that magazine show, I can pitch bits into that. So remember trying to get a meeting, trying to get a meeting, trying to get a meeting.

Never get a meeting. And eventually, I got one. And I went in with my little notebook and all my ideas and he's like, nah, nah, nah, but I was so not bothered. I was like, yeah, fair enough. And I was so used to like just not even getting feedback, when you'd send an article idea to a magazine they'd be like not for us whatever so I

was kind of resilient in that sense anyway then I am I so he said to me and this is like the editor of the show he said to me have you have you done much studio I was like yeah yeah I'd do loads of it in Ireland I basically apart from my doc's never really done any telly in Ireland did a travel show but I've never done any live at this point and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, loads of it. And he was like, okay, and that was the end of our conversation. And then he booked me for, like,

one of the short films on The One Show, and I was absolutely delighted. Anyway, cut to, a few months later, I'm up in Glasgow doing Robot Wars, mammoth production. I was like, how did I get here, alongside Darrow O'Brien, who was an absolute pro-disn, he's like, you know, he's used to sell out stadiums where in a,

it all just felt like really overwhelming, and I was like, I am not prepared for the, I don't know what I'm doing, I felt like really wobbly. And then they rang and were like, could she cover studio on the one show? I was like, oh, sweet mother of Jesus. But it was kind of that moment of like face your fear. I say face your fear and eat it. I don't know if I'd recommend it. But I was like, go, do it.

So I flew back down and did the show. And I mean, genuinely, I did not know what a hard count was. So somebody said to me, so how do you like doing a hard count? And I was like, oh, you know yourself. A hard count, sorry, just for anyone who doesn't know, is basically five, four, three, two, one, we're out for the news. Like, there is no fanning around. And he said, how do you like a hard count as in, do you want it from 10? Do you want me to go?

You're done. And I said, oh, well, I suppose everyone does them differently, don't they? And I could hear this silence on the end of the phone. I was like, fuck. And then I rang my age and I was like, what's a hard count? And she was like, oh dear. Anyway, that was fine. And I went and I did the show.

And I mean, I was with Matt Baker, who in fairness was driving the ship. I was just, you know, doing the thing. But it was daunting and it was big and it went really well. And then I covered maternity leave, which suddenly changed it from being me just having fun and winging it and being myself to, oh my God, I have everything to lose now. My head's above the parapet. I'm supposed to know what I'm doing here and so I just didn't ask any of the questions and felt very

like very overwhelmed did you oh yeah yeah like it was you know I had to go into the dressing room and like do little breathing exercises and I was like I was constantly on edge even thinking about it I was just completely overwhelmed and out of my depth

and I found it really hard to you know, just be in it and enjoy it. I mean, that's something I still find difficult. Do you? Yeah, yeah. And I have to work very consciously to go, no, this is it, this is it. Yeah, yeah.

Enjoy it, because you could be dead tomorrow. Your career had reached this absolute peak. It was kind of everything you would want. Yeah. All these things that shouldn't have happened really had happened quite effortlessly. and I was miserable. Miserable.

And look, and I think I feel really lucky in hindsight because I'm like, oh, to be gifted. Because I think a lot of the time you can spend your whole life just go into the next thing and always assuming that because you haven't got to that thing, that's the reason you feel how you feel if it's not a good feeling. And so, whereas I had gotten all of the things,

If I had written a list, everything on that list I had done, and I was like, oh my God, still. And I genuinely thought I was like, I'm never going to be happy. And I was in my mid-30s or early 30s, and I just thought, oh, that is like so grim to have a real realization or a belief that nothing will, like, turn you on, basically. And so it was at that point that I thought, okay, yeah, I really need to sort my shit,

out and like dig a little bit deeper because my my focus had always been on the shiny carrot on the big job or the like yeah outside validation I suppose and then I was like oh yeah okay it's not really doing much for me I guess it's a bit of a wake-up for where you do like okay how do I want to live my life and you did you worked quite hard yeah yourself as what I'm saying didn't you yeah well I mean I'm I'm a kind of all or nothing type of woman And so I suddenly was like, oh, hang on, I am now going to shun the trappings and meditate every day. And it became like, you know, therapy. All of the, I tried all of the different therapies.

I was like, I was thrown myself into this. And I did take it seriously. And I'm so glad that I did. What did you learn, do you think, about yourself? Okay, the biggest thing and it's still the most challenging thing for me, and it will sound bonkers to a lot of people, but I'm sure most people will relate, or a lot of people will relate, is that I have needs as a human being. I had no idea. I had kind of created this like illusion that I was self-sufficient, I was financially independent, I was emotionally independent, I was absolutely fine. I could keep going. I had immense energy. I could, like, I didn't even think about what I was doing next to. week, never mind next month, there was no reflection, there was no sitting down and going, what do I want and what do I need in order for this to, like, be, for me to be okay in this?

I just was like, just unaware. It felt like a need was a weakness or to need other people was like very frightening to me, which is why I think when I had my daughter that really hit home because there was like literally no avoiding all of the people. that you need when you have a baby. And, yeah, so the biggest thing and the thing that I have to keep checking in with myself is, oh yeah, okay, hang on, what do I, like, what do I need here? And then I'm allowed to have needs,

and it's not some sort of weird, like, defect. It's just kind of what I call. The Pink Panther Chocolate Bar, that broke my heart. The Pink Panther Chocolate Bar, I know. And Angela's book, there's such a touching moment when she's at the Irish equivalent of sort of centre parts, really. Look at you, that's a good memory. Yes. With Uncle Johnny?

Oh, my God. Yes. And Uncle Johnny's quite a glamorous figure, isn't he? He's a glam guy. The exotic. Yeah. And funny. Yeah.

Just a bit fab. And they took you to the shop and Uncle Johnny said, have what you want? Yeah. And so everyone went around. They're like, oh, a bucket of spade, or I'll have a game, or I'll have this. Filling their boots? Fill your boots. As you should, you're a kid. Push. Take the piss. Push those boundaries. And I, on the other hand, was like, again, that kind of reading the room going, I think if I asked for very little, they'll think I'm such a fab little girl. And I'm so, like, kind and so selfless, and I'm

lovely. And so I said, oh, I'll have this bar. It was a 5P Pink Panther Bar. I mean, 5P is more than 5P now, but still, it was cheap. And I remember thinking, I mean, I didn't give it much thought, I just knew this is going to

be a quiet little win for me. And I was sure that I'd be told cop on. Go over there and get yourself a toy. And he was like, I mean, I have six screaming children here. If you want a bloody, like, toxic bar, have it for 5p, it's not really my issue.

And so I took the bar, but I remember leaving the shop and being like, oh my God, I was trying so hard to be like lovable by being small. By reducing yourself almost. Yeah, and then he didn't give me anything else. Well, can I say it's ended very happily because we're outside Angela. We are. Absolutely. It's my dream house.

Come on. Has she fed? Yes. Yeah. Oh, you're fed. You're looking cute as a button, aren't you? Come on in. I really need to get the cushions out here.

We're in Angela's lovely garden. She's probably ready for sleep, so. She's a little. Hi, Hungry Hound. Angela, such a nice atmosphere in your house. I love your girls. They're gorgeous. This is so beautiful this place that you've created and your family. family and I want to know when you met Roy, which feels appropriate to ask you that as your breastwreath.

Yeah, it's all happening. I felt that was intimate. I thought I was I'm watching the breastfeed, it's fine. We've crossed those lines, I feel. I, oh my God, although I did catch the eye myself in the mirror the other day and I've been really like adamant that I'm going to be freestyling, but from up here they look small. But when you're faced front on with them, they are absolutely enormous. And Roy was like, oh my God, you need to take a picture of the time your tiths were bigger than the baby's head. I was like, oh my God, we went to clareges for Easter because we're boozy. And I literally was whipping them out.

And I mean, not like trying to make people uncomfortable, but, you know, doing my feminist duty. But I really did not realize how obnoxiously large they were. No, I have a friend who we, this is before I had kids. and we went out one day to a cafe and she had one of those giant muslin cloths and she put it over her head to feed the baby like a little wigwam, like a little tent. I was like, babe, I think that's just like to cover the baby.

I can't see you. She's like fussing underneath trying to get herself. It was so mad. Anyway, sorry, myself and Roy met. We'll be eight years married this June. So we met like probably 11 years ago maybe. And what do you think, did you know? Is it kind of like, yeah, he's all.

So it was weird because we met through two of our best friends. And I remember Fenula, my friend saying, I think you and Roy would get along really well. I remember thinking, okay, Grant, anyway, we met kind of accidentally when a friend of mine was over from Spitz. insane and we went it was a bit of a mad night anyway we had a little cheeky snog

that night right but like that was it and then I think he took my number and was like oh yeah yeah I'll drop you a line nothing nothing now I'm really angry with Roy

I was so I was like I have no interest in this man contacting me I was a little bit intrigued and then when it was like silence I thought how fucking dare he I wouldn't have answered the phone but I'd like to have had the choice. So I thought, oh my God, how rude.

Anyway. And then he got in touch around six months later, six months. And I said, and he's like, I know this is a bit out of the blue, but do you want to go for a drink? I was like, actually, maybe. So we did. But I had ideas, I was like, I don't think, I mean, it's fine, I'll just go. I was kind of in that, like, say yes to everything.

I think there's a book, isn't it? And then we met and I had such preconceptions about him. We sat down, we had a drink and like within the first drink, I don't know what the time were. I was like, oh wow, this feels very different. It felt like I knew him from another life. And, um, abs, come on. Do you like Raymond?

Do you like Raymond? Do you like Raymond? Oh my God, this is really working. Do you like Raymond? Can you record? Will you send me your recording of this thing? Do you like Raymond? Do you like Raymond?

Do you like Raymond? Do you like Raymond? I need to let her sleep. Angela, this has been one of my favorite Oh God, you just peered. Sorry to ruin your moment. It was really sentimental and I was enjoying how sincere you were being. I mean, that's the train.

She was bombed. Most people bring a dog. I've brought my own baby. And I didn't know you that we were neighbours. I know. Pretty much. Yeah. You're never going to get rid of me. I think we should be friends. I think, can I be your friend?

Yeah. You see, I've been reading your book and in your book it says, ask for what you want. Ask for what you want. I've just asked. The universe shall provide. Bidges. So true, though, but it's vulnerability.

But I think it's nice to say, can I be your friend? I like that. I've never done it before, but it worked, I think. We'll see. Follow-up is the key. Angela, will you say goodbye to Raymond? Bye, Raymond, you doughty little Ewok. I'll never forget.

I'll see you next week. Now we're friends with your mom. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that, and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.