Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Ashley James (Part Two)

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Join us back in St James’ Park with broadcaster Ashley James - as she tells us all about going on Celebrity Big Brother and striking up an unanticipated friendship with Ann Widdecombe. Ashley explains why she doesn’t want to get married and we have a potential royal drive-by… as well as bumping into actual broadcast royalty!If you haven’t heard part one of this chat yet, you can listen to it hereFollow Ashley on instagram @ashleylouisejames Listen to Emily and Ray’s walk with Emma Barnett from September 2019 here!Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Really hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with the Wonderful Ashley James. Do remember to listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and we'd love it if you subscribe to Walking the Dog. Here's Ashley and Ray Ray. I also want to talk about you entered the Big Brother House. It was about 2018. It was about 2018. And it was a special year they did called the Year of the Women. I thought you were absolutely brilliant on that.

And I remember watching it with my god. daughter, honey, who you obviously know, and that's kind of how I know you, which is really lovely. I was just so impressed by you. Thank you. I think you were great on that. Thank you. It's funny because my dad has always had this thing that he has hated Big Brother, and he's

always like, I don't know why anyone goes on that, sure, man, they're not normal. And so when I first told him that I was doing Maiden Chelsea, I waited until the day before it was on TV. About that, I went down well. And my brother and my sister were like, you know. need to tell mum and dad that you're doing, like, you just need to give them some warning, especially because my mum worked in a hair salon, so obviously it's like Gossip Central. So I remember texting them being like, just let you know, I'm doing a TV show and it airs

tomorrow. And my dad straight away was like, oh, Christ, please it's it's not Big Brother. And I was like, no, it's Maiden Chelsea. And he was like, Mid Chelsea, why know if they want you on that? Do they want Jordy Jeff on there? And it kind of became this like family, like, running joke that they just needed to get Jordan Jeff in to sort them all out. And so then a few years later, that was 2012.

And a few years later, 2018, and I got offered Celebrity Big Brother. Is it decent enough money to make you think I'd be a bit crazy not to do this? Yeah, it allowed me to buy my flat in London. And it took me from my overdraft to buying a house on the help to buy scheme, but still, and so I remember saying to my parents,

I've got something to tell you I'm doing Big Brother. And my dad was like, oh, not this again, man, you're bloody not. And I was like, I actually am this time. And I remember at the time they just announced that Rachel Johnson was doing it because I think she got to do an exclusive in the mail. And I was like, my parents who are, you know, die or hard Tories, I thought, well, that would appeal to them. So I was like, but Dad, it's not the normal Big Brother.

It's a year of the woman. And it's going to be a bit more respectable. Like Rachel Johnson's doing it. And he was like, and you think of bloody Rachel Johnson's doing it? That makes it all right, does it? Do you want to be like, Rachel Johnson? And I was like, oh, how am I going to do this? Anyway, I invited them to the launch and they refused to come.

And I remember saying to my dad, but dad, I'm getting paid this much money. I'll be able to buy a flat. And he was like, and you think that's a good price is it, to embarrass yourself on telly. And they refused to come to the launch. So again, when I did that show, I was kind of in the back of my mind thinking, like, are they going to be proud of me? Am I doing okay? And it was a really scary environment to be in because you're suddenly put with all these different

people and characters and at the heart of it I still just kind of wanted to be seen and understood and liked but then I also thought it's such a risk because at that point I'd start DJing for brands like Dior and

you know I felt like I'd kind of broken down barriers of being this reality star and suddenly I was throwing myself back in the reality star ring if you like but it wasn't amazing it was so it was hard but it was such an amazing opportunity but oh my God I struggled so much coming out.

It is a social experiment. And it was just a surreal experience to come out and everybody know or think they knew so much about my life or my experience. It was weird, but I got on the property ladder. What I like is that we're listening to the changing of the car. And what are they called them? Is it the household cavalry band?

I've just made that up, but anyway. What I like is I feel like they're accompanying your story. And you said, and I got on the property ladder. And they went, do, do, do. This is actually my band. They follow me around. So it's on my rider.

So that is what you can hear. And I think it's rather lovely, which is why we're not moving, because we like it. How interesting. You were also in the Celebrity Big Brotherhouse with Anne Whitaker. Politically, she could not be more opposed to your views

because you're sort of more to the left, aren't you? As far as I'm aware, she's fairly right. I mean, she's so far to the right. But I feel like you sort of grew to an understanding with her, or what did you come away feeling from her? If anything, what did you learn from her? She was someone who, she judged me straight away.

She kind of had me down as this unintelligent, I don't know, she didn't like me. I remember thinking like, but you don't know me. And I didn't know much about her as a politician. I'd heard her name, but I didn't know anything about her, really. But I remember thinking, I just want you to like me. I just don't understand why you don't like me. And I remember saying, and I always feel like I'm in some ways a good judge of people's inner character.

And I got a real sense from her that she'd had to be hard her whole life. And so I felt, and this might not be. accurate that she just needed like someone to show her a lot of love and so I really tried to do that. I did her makeup and I did her hair and I'd obviously always call her out on if I heard her say anything inappropriate. I think you know she used wrong pronouns with India a few times and I'd always be like India is a she you've only ever known her as a she so I was never afraid to stand up to her but I just found her this fascinating character that I felt I remember saying oh now that you've lived with like Wayne Sleep and Amanda Barry and Courtney Act,

do you think that you had voted differently on Article 28? And obviously she's always voted against gay marriage. And she was like, you are assuming, actually, that I voted because I'm ignorant. I am not ignorant. So I was like, well, then I don't understand. How can you, and Wayne and Amanda and have all got on? And I was like, so I just, and Anne's kind of like in with a lot of like, like gay men. they love her.

Like I feel like, you know, she's got a lot of industry gay friends. And so it really, I was just kind of baffled by the fact that her voting is so different to her friendship groups, maybe. Yeah, I just found her a very fascinating character. And what she did teach me, and I remember her saying to me, like, you have to learn to be less sensitive. Not everyone has to like you and it's okay. And that was a real good lesson for me. and I think it's interesting because we live in such a polarised world

where it's like, well, if their right wing, write them off. And I understand that her voting has caused people a lot of pain, but I also did learn a lot from her. So it's a bit of a weird relationship. I actually, we still speak and she calls herself my house grand, but I found the Brexit period really difficult because I think that's when she went so much further right. I put a lot of pressure on your relationship.

I remember I once met her first. lunch or dinner or she'd been on TV and I went to go meet her and she was wearing her Brexit party rosette thing and I was like God and you have to wear that I was like can you take it off so we can have a meal um so yeah it's funny because obviously I never would have thought that I would like her but I think I don't know I can't explain it I think I feel like she needs love I don't know how to say it and I think a lot of her views come from Catholicism as opposed to because maybe she believes them. But if the Catholic Church say so, then that's what goes.

I don't know. I'm not making it excuses for her either. I feel there's an interesting thing going on with you where you're quite... You're very, I would say, self-assured. And I think that's something that's a really nice energy to be around. I don't know if that's something you've worked at, if that's something you've always had.

you know, poised, I would say, you're comfortable with yourself. I think because I spent so long trying to be what I thought I had to be or trying to please people, whether that was, you know, boarding school, home life, Maiden Chelsea, whatever it was, trying not to be sexy, trying to be sexy. Like, I've always felt like I tried so hard to be good at whatever it was that I was trying to be good at around people, like being the chameleon of like, well if I do this then they'll like me and I kind of realized

I'm not going to say one day but gradually like people like and dislike you anyway and when you're trying to be someone else or being when you try to be who you think people want you to be you end up being quite lonely because you don't find your people and so now

I'm just kind of like well this is who I am and I hope at the heart of it, people see I'm a good person, but obviously not everyone's going to like me. But that's okay because I don't like everyone else. But the more I leaned into being myself, the more I found my people. And so, yeah, I guess I'm self-assured and very confident and I'm very capable at holding my own and standing by my opinion. But I'm also, I don't think I'm right automatically.

So I'm always like open to hearing other people's perspectives and viewpoints and, you know, I think life is, I don't know, a bit of a journey. I don't really know how to describe it, but at the heart of it, I'd still say that I am someone that doesn't have very good self-esteem, but I'm also very confident. I don't know, it's a bit of a paradox. And after Celebrity Big Brother,

presumably that gets some sort of heat around you, some traction around you, and you're getting offers to do more things. And did you feel afterwards that suddenly there was a bit of a sort of more of a white heat period in terms of your career? No, actually. I feel like almost the opposite because I'd worked so hard to do those sort of DJ gigs for high fashion brands. And suddenly they didn't want me anymore because they didn't want me at their event where it would then be like Celebrity Big Brother Star. So I had this real lull and I changed agents.

And I remember I'm still. with my agent, but when they signed me, I remember being like, but are you going to make me money? And he was like, actually, no offence. I'm not a fucking charity. I'd hope I'd make you money. And it was again, it was like that fighting

against a pre-conceived idea of me or fighting against that sort of reality TV stereotype that actually I feel like it's much more now. Just before lockdown I think there was definitely that sort of buzz and then obviously lockdown happened and I came out with children

and I was like, oh my God, what have I done? And I was having to like, I really felt like my career was over and I had to fight again to prove that I was still more than just a mum, which a lot of it was obviously my own. I want to talk about when you met your partner because you said yourself, it sort of slightly came out of the blue, really. It was almost at a period when you weren't expecting it and was it quite, you...

whirlwind meeting him yeah so I'd been single at that point for six years and I decided to go my friend my friend died of cancer and I went on this trip to south africa um after the funeral because I thought you know life for living and it was like my bucket list and when I was out there I thought do you know what I feel like I am ready to meet someone now and I'm not in a hurry for it to happen but I want to meet someone and everyone says you're going to meet someone when you're not looking but I was so actively not looking. I was like, unless someone falls out of a plane and lands in my patio,

because I just had these really fun dinner parties with my girlfriends. And I knew I didn't want to meet someone in my industry. And I just wanted to meet someone from outside of the world in which I was living. So I went on to a dating app, and he was the third person that I met, but I knew him, like from the Abercombie days.

So I met him on the 1st of December, 2019 and I remember straight away I was like you're my boyfriend and I kept being like you're my boyfriend by the way and he was like no I'm not and I was like okay well if you see anyone else it's over so that technically means you're my boyfriend but I don't have to be your girlfriend and eventually a month later he was like okay we can be boyfriend and girlfriend because I think I'd spent so long dating and waiting for them to decide what it was I was I was just like I don't care if it doesn't work because I'm really happy on my own and I'm just going to state my boundaries and what I want.

But I do remember saying, but I don't want children. And I didn't want children. So I was like, if that's a deal breaker for you, maybe we're not right together. And I think we were still figuring that out when lockdown happened. And I remember when lockdown happened, he was at mine. It got announced at like 5pm or something. And we had until midnight. And I was like, oh my God, lockdown.

This could go on forever. You're going to have to go home. And he was like, well, I was thinking it might go on forever. So maybe I'd stay. And I was like, oh, no. What's going on? That's a military helicopter And you and your husband

Not husband I don't want to get married You don't think you will get married No I don't want to Why not? Long story short I don't like marriage I kind of see it as the fact

We don't have to now is amazing Like I don't know I just feel like it's got a lot of history of oppressing women I'm working on it I'm still trying to understand the benefit of marriage or why people do it.

I'm actually reading a book at the moment called A Feminist History of Marriage. So I am actively trying to get my head around it because I think Tommy would like to get married. But I've just never got it. I don't know. Why do people get married? Love commitment.

We can have that without marriage. Children are quite a commitment. I don't know. Do we need it in this day and age? And that it's only traditionally the men who talk, So the father does a speech about the daughter whilst the man gets his best mate, then even like wearing a white dress because it's virginal. You know, there's just so many things.

And I understand that you don't have to have a traditional wedding. But then it's like, but then why do you know, why have one at all? I don't know. I'm really trying to get my head around it. But I wouldn't want to ban marriage. I don't resent it at all. Obviously it makes people really happy. And I sort of think like, oh, I wish I hadn't.

overthink everything. I was like, well, I just feel like so many women, like it's not even that long ago that women were put in mental institutions at the word of their husband. And even the house I currently live in, that was a house run by nuns for people who got married out wedlock to go live. And then obviously they'd have the baby and the baby would get taken away and they'd go back to wherever they were from. So I love that I'm an unmarried woman living in that house as the owner of that house. I'm going to come outside and shout shame. Yeah, exactly.

People assume he hasn't asked me yet and that's what I find really funny. And this is again, like, why is it that even in this day and age we have to wait? And if you want to get married, ask them. You know, being single in my early 30s, the whole idea of like, well, do you not want to settle down? You know, you don't want to get left on the shelf, like all of these things that people would say. But I was like, even if it was my choice, it's not like I can click my fingers. but also why do we have to settle down? Like, why is there this notion that as you get older,

it's like, well, you should be less picky? It's like, surely who I go to bed with, who I live in a house with and who I potentially have children with are three things that we should be quite fussy about. And you've got two beautiful kids. You've got Ada. Ada and Alfie. An Alfie.

One and three. And Ada is named after, is there a bit of Ada Lovelace going on in there? Yeah, Ada Lovelace. Tommy works in tech and I like the idea that she was kind of the first tech mathematician. I don't think she was the first, but she was a tech mathematician. And also Lord Byron said, O'Aida, sole daughter of my house and heart. And I loved that. And the geese love it too.

They're coming to hear more. They were diving for Ray. It's all right, Ray, way, way. It's okay. You've become recently, you've started popping up a lot on this morning. Yeah. You've always done, being a sort of regular contributor to various shows. But I feel that this morning thing has become a bit of a big thing for you, hasn't it?

Yeah, I seem to be booked every week for a while. So, yeah, it feels like a good place for me, actually. I'm really happy there. And do you like Kat and Ben? Yeah, I really do. I've known Ben for a long time from, good morning Britain and I've always had a lot of time for him I I stepped in for Richard Arnold years ago just before lockdown actually to do a lot of the entertainment and

presenting but Kat I didn't know but she's so nice she's so down to earth she comes in she talks to everyone like she comes into the green room says hi she goes into the makeup room she's just really you know and you can just tell people are genuinely nice and interested she's got I've met her once, exactly the same I felt. Just very, very good energy. Your contributions on that show on this morning have gone kind of viral. Like there's been a lot of traction around them. There was one of you talking to Giles Brandreth, kind of educating him on wholeness. Why was it shared so much? I think because the term woke does get weaponised so much in the mainstream media and terms like chest feeding gets so blown out of proportion, like for Giles to sit there.

And would you want to just explain, just with chest feeding? So with chest feeding, he basically said that in London hospitals, you're not even allowed to say breastfeeding anymore. You have to say chest feeding. And I suppose what he didn't realise was he was sat next to a woman who is still breastfeeding and who gave birth in a London hospital. And the reason for this is for trans. Yeah, if you're dealing with trans people.

And actually, I've learned it's not even just trans people. there might be some women who don't like the term breastfeeding for whatever reason or have history of sexual assault, whatever it might be, people who don't feel comfortable. And so what the right-wing media say is you're not allowed to use the word breastfeeding anymore. The world's gone mad. But what it actually is, is if the word breastfeeding isn't appropriate, use the term chestfeeding, which is actually just a decent thing to do in its training so that you don't unintentionally offend someone or upset someone. and obviously the main target of that term would be a trans man

and it's harmless I get why people fear wokeness because they're constantly being told that that is the reason that the world's going too far they want the right-wing media, the establishment, whatever it is, they want you to believe that it's all going too far equality in whatever sense of the word, whether it's like racial or sexual gender people, if we get too much of it, the world will go mad. Sometimes when people say, talk about won'tness,

it's a bit like recycling. I really miss the days when we didn't have to bother with the recycling. You could just shove everything in a bin and not take any responsibility for what was in there. I'd probably miss that a bit. Made my life a lot less hassle. And I sort of think, but it's for the greater good. It's benefiting more people.

And I almost think people have to get their head around it in that way. That actually, it's no different to recycling. It's just saying you just have to, it's a tiny bit of effort required on your part. It's all it is in the way you're thinking. And it's like when people say, oh, you can't even tell jokes anymore. And it's like, but maybe people didn't want to be the butt of the jokes. But because the people saying it were not the butt of the jokes, they kind of didn't realize. So yeah, it's funny, isn't it, that even like the time Snowflake, it's like, well, ultimately,

you are the people are getting offended by words and all wokeness is trying to do is make the world a little bit more inclusive for everyone. So you obviously have a real gift for public speaking as well. Yeah, thank you. I feel like I've always loved public speaking. I'm always hard on myself, so I always think I could be more articulate.

But no, I enjoy it. And I actually really enjoy looking at social injustice and also looking at the political landscape. I think Brexit was a real wake-up call for me. especially as someone that studied French and did an Erasmus program and lived abroad. How does it go down at home, actually, your politics? My dad and I actually didn't speak for months after Brexit. He didn't speak to me again when I put up a red rose on my Facebook profile picture

ahead of the general election. She was like, actually, I don't mind you, having different political opinions to me, but people will say that. And I was like, that's sort of the point, Dad. So yeah, and now I actually have a rule where politics is off the table And Tommy rang my parents up saying if you want Ashley to be around Because it was just boring like I'd be ringing them to tell them about my pregnancy scan And they'd start moaning about strikes

And I was like, just shut up and listen to my story like you But also you take your information from the daily mail So it's not even accurate like the chest feeding thing It's like I just don't even know how they get away with being able to peddle such lies, but yeah, politics is now firmly off the table at home because I think I'm never going to change their minds. I feel like the Tories have managed to destroy pretty much everything in society

and even my brother-in-law's father, who was a Tory MP, would not vote conservative anymore. So it's like even old Tory MPs aren't Tory anymore, and yet my parents are there. on a burning hill with the Union Jack. So, yeah, no, it's, I mean, it's really hard, isn't it, when you're kind of bound by blood and have such opposing views.

That's what we were saying earlier, the Saddam Whitaker thing. It's probably not that unhelpful on exercise for us, you know, to learn, because it's tolerance, isn't it? On both parts, in a way. Yeah. We should probably start heading back. Yeah.

I wanted to ask you as well, morning you've obviously had these sort of you know discussions with Joel Brandreth and then there've been a few other ones as well haven't there there was one with was it nadine dores what was it what was that discussion about so Rishishish Sunak's now decided to target people with mental health issues and get them back to work as opposed to acknowledging that the current climate in which people are living and the cost of living crisis and the fact that a fifth of the UK are currently living in poverty might have something to do with people's mental health

and maybe we should help clear the NHS wait times so people can get the support they needed. Instead, he's decided to get people back to work because obviously that's what they need. Hard work. So yeah, she, we came to blows about that. Not blows. I never tried to be argumentative

and obviously she has experience of an MP but I really had to bite my tongue because she obviously got paid to not work for a whole year. She didn't turn up and didn't represent her constituents. So I was really tempted to be like, you'd know about sick note culture, isn't you, Dean? But I thought, no, I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to buy it.

Because I always think, especially when you're the more left voice, you can sometimes come across as a bit rude and aggressive. Here we go. So we're crossing over from St. James's Park. into, back into Green Park. Let's have a look here. We're just stood outside. Oh, they're stopping traffic.

And they're stopping traffic. There's a royal passing. Let's, where he's waving? Hello. Might be Charles. No, it wasn't. Oh, are they in the back? We were just waving.

They looked like an elderly lady. This is the first time on this podcast that we've ever had. We've ever witnessed. We've ever had. And probably the closest will ever come. come to a royal appearance. Potentially Prince and Princess Michael of Kent. Why do you think that?

Because if they were in the first car, they sort of looked like this. It's a shame there's not a Twitter page that tells you who you saw like there is with air ambulances. It tells you why air ambulances are up in the air and what they're looking for or what they're doing. Or is it police helicopters? One of them.

I get the sense. You've never over. really invested in your looks really and you would have been forgiven for having done so um i think i've always been hyper aware that it makes it brings in the wrong attention so i don't think i don't think it's ever necessarily favoured me in my dating life because it's very much the wrong attention yeah i don't know i just i suppose i've just wanted to be seen for my soul or my like intelligence as opposed to the way in which I look. And I always find it funny when sometimes, you know, it's much, much older women who say,

you know, you miss catcalling when it's gone. And I think, but my life's purpose isn't on men finding me attractive. And even this like idea of like your attention seeking, you know, having boobs or whatever. But I promise you, if there is an online filter where I could filter out all straight men, I would. I don't really want that sort of attention. I don't open up Instagram and think, oh, I hope I've got some flames.

I hope I've been sent some genitals today. You know, I find it just quite base and vulgar. Do you like being an influencer? I think it's a funny word, isn't it? Because I don't think anyone's like, I feel like it's quite a reductive term, but I like being able to have a voice and share that voice, and I feel like it gave me a voice

where the tabloids were sort of taking away my voice or making out like I was someone very different. And I think a lot of good can come from social media for all the criticism it gets, you know? Like, I feel like it pushes diet culture and beauty standards, and I've certainly learnt about my, much more social injustice through following different influences, whether that's people of different races or trans people

or even women of different shapes and sizes and remembering that beauty and confidence and image doesn't depend on you being the smallest version of yourself. People forget that when they talk about things like, you know, when they say, oh, the problem with Instagram and social media, And there's no doubt, you know, I understand that there is a conversation to be had around body image and the sort of negative aspects of it. I think what we also have to remember balance it out with is that, you know, back when I was growing up, there was only one body image we got. And that was through magazines. We only saw models, end of story. We didn't see anyone who wasn't...

And models that had been photoshopped as well. And we didn't know they were Photoshopped. No one told us. We thought, God, imagine having no bruises on your legs and no marks and cellular life. But I know one thing you really hate is mum fluencer. It's kind of like real derogatory term for anyone who is a mum on Instagram. But do you know what? I also think, like, why are people so against it?

Because actually, I try to think about it a lot. And whilst I really don't like the term, it's like it allows so many women, who are kind of navigating quite harsh social landscape where they can't afford to go back to work or their whole world feels about motherhood. And also it's really hard and you're kind of sold this rose-tinted image.

And I think, well, it's allowing them to make money and be with their kids and potentially have financial freedom from partners and good for them. But I suppose, and I do share my kids online and I understand, you know, some people do and some people don't, and I think each to their own. I don't see how it's much different me showing a picture of my kid online

to the royal showing a picture of their kid, you know, whether it's a pat picture or an Instagram picture, it's online, isn't it? So do you think you would get another dog? Not yet. I think I've got enough on my plate. It's hard enough looking after two kids. But in the future, I'd always get a dog. But I think it would be selfish to get a dog.

well now, dogs deserve better than what I could give at the moment. Do you think someone might say dogs deserve better underneath a photograph of me and Ray? That's what worries me. No. I think... You can tell Ray is very loved. Oh, do you know, that's the nicest thing I've ever heard. That really means a lot to me.

Do you think you can? See, I've gone a bit needy. I need to borrow the Anne Whittaker advice. Are you quite needy? No. You're not, are you? No. I actually feel like I'm almost too hyper-independent.

Have you managed that? Have you always been like that? Well, they say it's trauma, don't they? I feel like I was really like, I'm an independent girl boss, you know, everything they say. And then I think some psychologist was like, yeah, it's actually trauma from not having your needs met as a child, which makes sense from everything that we talked about.

Do you have therapy? Yeah, yeah. And also I think because I like came out of a really awful relationship in my mid to late 20s. And I kind of vowed that I wouldn't let myself get really dependent, especially financially on someone again. But I think I still have an amazing relationship and I'm affectionate. But yeah, I wouldn't say needy. Yeah, but it's, um...

I feel very happy living my own life. I think what it's about... is being comfortable with each other's solitude. You've got to respect that as well. And respecting that their whole world doesn't have to be about you. People are allowed friends and hobbies outside of your relationship. I thought I said about her about it. She's been on this part.

I'm on the phone. I'm so sorry. I just want to say hello. You're on a mic. I know. We're recording the podcast. Hello, lovely. And I like you as well. This is Ashley James.

I know. I know. I'm a big fan of you. You look beautiful. Thank you. But carry on. This is a great part. Emma Barnett, we love you. We just ran into Emma Barnett. She just said Ashley James was fabulous.

It was a great moment, wasn't it? Did you enjoy that? I love her. We love her. We love her. And we love you. Oh, thank you. What were we talking about?

Oh, relationships. Yeah, I don't like the idea that people just turn up. I also feel like they can't have a life without their partner. And what Tommy always thinks I'm really weird because you know how people say, I love you forever, or I love you forever, or happy ever after. And I always say, but I don't think that's love

because we talk about my views on marriage. And I say, how can you, like 13 years ago, I was a goth, how could I possibly say in 13 years that we will still make each other happy? And I think sometimes when you love people, it's not a prison sentence. Like Tommy's really into, like, health and fitness, and I'm really into drinking and bars.

And it might be, at the moment it works, but it might be at one point he's like, oh, what am I doing with this, like, not alcoholic, but you know what I mean? We just live very different lifestyles. And I said, you might meet someone who makes you so much happier. And if you love someone, you let them go. I choose you every day, and I'm with you because you make me happy. I like you going, if you love someone, let them go.

Yeah, but as in like, you, he, one day, there might be someone in his life that makes him happier than me, and I'm very much okay with that. Well, it's about saying that I continue to exist as a human being outside of my relationship. Well, Ashley, really not. What a way to end. What a way to end. I've loved our walk. Presumably, you'll be popping up regularly on this morning.

Yeah, every week, so. We've just discovered that Emma Barnett is a fan. I know, what a moment for me. That was quite a moment. What did I get? Hi, Ray. I mean, come on. but I like that. She gets it.

Nice, girls, girl, that's what you want. More of those, especially in this world. Do you know what I love about you? Is that you're very honest about how long those Instagram posts take you to put up. And I used to look at your Instagram and think, oh my God, these are amazing. This is like some Scorsese film or something. The colours are perfect. There's not a hair out of place.

And you want, so, oh, take about a week to do one of those. That made me feel the honesty I liked. Yeah. Do they take a long time, those? So long. It's such a big process. It's basically like you're shooting TV adverts but without the crew. It's crazy, but I enjoy it as well.

Like I enjoy, especially in lockdown becoming a mum, like there wasn't any people. So that's what I like being online because I also get to meet really great people. And I like being online. Annie Lennox commented on one of my pictures of my videos. It's about woke. She said something like, keep fighting the good fight,

or I love this. And I was like, this is why I love social media because Annie Lennox now knows who I am. So, yeah, I enjoy connecting with people. It's a great way for an introvert to connect. Are you an introvert? Extroverted introvert, yeah. I recharge in my own.

I think you're quite an introvert. Yeah. That's my diagnosis. An introvert with an extroverted need for attention. Same time next week, actually, for our therapy session. Yeah. Oh, Ashley. I feel like I'm going to have to pay you at the end of this.

Ashley, I've really enjoyed our walk. Me too. Have you enjoyed it? Yeah, I've loved it. Have you? Have you? I really liked it. And I think you've been so sweet with Ray.

I think he really likes you. Oh, any time that you want me to hang out with Ray or you, then I'm always here. Did you like the little or you? A little bit reluctantly added at the end. An afterthought. I would describe the or you as not very convincing. No. You know that I love you.

Bye-bye, Ashley. Bye-bye. I bet you're going to sleep well tonight. Are you talking to me or right? Both. Hopefully I get a tooth. I know I'm old, Ashley, but I can't say it. Bye.

I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.