Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Bella Hull (Part Two)

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

In part two of Emily’s walk with the wonderful Bella Hull, the conversation turns to the realities of building a career in comedy, from writing for Saturday Night Live UK to navigating the Edinburgh Fringe and finding her own voice as a stand-up. Bella also reflects on the moments that have shaped her life and career so far, with plenty more brilliantly funny observations along the way.If you haven’t already, do go back and listen to part one. And if you're heading to this year's Edinburgh Festival, don't miss Bella's new show Mad Cow Disease, playing daily at Monkey Barrel from August 3rd to 30th. Tickets are available at https://www.edfringe.com.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with the wonderful comedian Bella Hull. Do try and catch Bella at the Edinburgh Festival in her show Mad Cow Disease. You can get your tickets at Edpringe.com and do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Bella. Do you think in terms of your comedy and in terms of you know you've established earlier you've talked about oh I'm a bit of an oversharer, do you ever worry about that in terms of how it impacts the people around you, not just you I saw? you, I suppose. I think as I get older, I am probably more precious about saying things about people. I mean, obviously, I've literally just told you so many people. Yeah, but we're not.

It's fine. No, I feel fine about my childhood, my adolescence, but I think I, the older I get, the more I probably feel, I'm in a new relationship now, and I feel actually very, the idea of him being hurt at something I say on stage or being violated by it. Yeah, you wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like that. Whereas weirdly in the past, I have really not cared and I really haven't. I've been very like, well, you have to cope. And I've been very like, you're in or you're out and this is who I am.

And I am sharing, you know, if you're dating me, then your life is an open book and so is mine. And that's what you are agreeing to. And I kind of am changing my mind. a bit about that now I think like I'm I think I have spent the last decade kind of hurting people in in some sense well my last show was incredibly personal and it was all about my last relationship and it was I really blew it all open and I really kind of accepted the fact that it would hurt a lot of people and I'm I'm sure that it did and it was a very very And the kind of awful thing was that it was the best show that I've ever done.

And I was so rewarded for being so open about other people's stuff and other people's lives. And we should say what this show was called. It was called Doctors Hate Her. Yeah. And you got incredible reviews for that, though, didn't you? Yeah, but it was after a long career of kind of not getting very mediocre reviews. And I think it was like I finally sort of stumbled. I had this huge breakup and it felt very symbolic. to me in terms of like I'd been going out with a doctor who was very sensible and very

sort of good for me on paper and kind of keeping me on the right track and you know very rational and a very empirical person and I think I was kind of I think often I have had relationships where I'm going out with someone because they are the type of person I should be going out with because they will improve me or they will inoculate me from some like deeply monstrous part of myself. It's like you view yourself as the showrunner of your life. Who would I match this person with

in the wrong cult? Who should they end up with? Totally. Who should J-Lo be with at the end of this one-call? Yeah, exactly. And sort of almost he was like, he wince at me sometimes. If I was being myself or just being a really stupid character, he would

look at me like, oh God, and in a way it probably like reminded me of something very old in my child. I don't know, it probably like spoke to something and I think so maybe on some level are you saying that you felt comfortable with that feeling of someone else thinking you're a bit extra yeah had to rein yourself in a bit yeah I think I kind of thought that if I don't have someone slightly paper cutting me emotionally all the time I will actually just be uh it would be fatal in some way like I think I like I if I am truly myself then I'll be so mad I think also like I I felt

I've often felt quite sort of crazy at different points in my life and I kind of was like I need to be rained in and then when we broke up I sort of went on this journey I was like I'm not crazy I think I'm very expressive but I don't think I'm that word is like very useful and but at the same time I think yeah now I don't think I would make that show again and I don't think if I had another big breakup

Did he ever get in touch with you and say no right never and I think but also when we broke up he very much gave me his blessing to make whatever show I wanted like he was very good-natured about that and he always had been very very fine with me saying whatever I wanted which I was really grateful for but you know not everyone is like that and I have definitely taken a lot of risks in my career and really hurt people so you know someone once said there's a great book about writing called bird by bird and oh I've read that yeah it's so good isn't it and she says a great thing in that and we should say

if anyone hasn't read it, I really recommend it. If you're struggling with any sort of creative things, because she talks about, it's about putting a collage together with grandkids and it strikes her, it's like, do it bird by bird, stop trying to do it all it want. And she says a great thing that she says, if, you know, when she addresses this whole thing about, what do you do about writing about people,

or, you know, doing comedy about them, and she says, it's pretty harsh, but I kind of love it. She said, if people didn't want you to talk, write about them they should have behaved better yeah wow yeah and I think I kind of I really agree with that I really agree with that and also I think when I am writing my best stuff it is from this space of being really agitated and being really like pissed off with people and finally like voicing it like that's kind of where my best stuff sort of comes from and I think with my last show I like

leaned into this deep immaturity and I was aware that it was very immature and that's what made it very like funny was me like saying I'm not immature and then saying like so many jokes that were just incredibly like small-minded and but I think as I'm getting older I'm thinking about like when you're when I was like in my early 20s it was like fuck it I'll say whatever I want I don't care and I felt very like scorched earth and also I wasn't successful so no one was coming to these shows where I was airing everyone's dirty laundry so who was cared and now it's kind of like you know I think it was like when I got I got a really nice

review in The Guardian for my last Edinburgh show. Yes I remember reading that and I'd never gotten a broadsheet review before and you know suddenly I think I had this this penny dropped in me where I was like oh like I a lot of people might read this and it's actually quite a personal thing and I was really pleased with the review and I didn't I don't regret anything about that show but I think it was a thing that I was like, oh, you sort of make a decision and then you realise you've made that decision afterwards. And you're like, oh, okay, I guess that's what I did. Do you think also, I think in terms of, I do think there's a female thing here, which is women feeling, certainly after relationships. And I suffered for this for years. And I think a lot of women, older women of my generation,

do, which is you have a duty to be silent. It doesn't matter what happened to you, what the behaviour. was like nice girls don't open their mouth. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that when you look back historically, you know, I mean, Shakespeare was writing about his lovers and we don't judge him for that. No, no. Men have been writing about relationships and broken hearts for years and exposing the women in their lives. But I think with women we're still getting over that hurdle of it's not ladylike, it's not feminine, it's not done. So every time a woman does that, I sort of think, well, if it was all right for Shakespeare, what, what

Why? What's the double standard? You know, and hundreds of years and many, thousands of years, many have been doing that. Totally. And something I've always really struggled with, I think. And it's why I think I made my best show when I was single is the fact that, like, needing to be desirable to people for me is antithetical to being honest and being funny. So interesting.

And I, whenever I go on stage, I sort of deliberately, if I'm sort of going to a nice dinner afterwards, I'll feel really stressed out because I don't want to look mad at. nice on stage and like I always wear like scruffy t-shirts and stuff because I want to feel interesting ugly I like I and I need to feel like in touch with some part of me that isn't in any way trying to get people to fancy me and I think like when I first started stand-up I was very girly on stage and I would wear like pink jeans and lashes and you know when I do TV now I I'll you know well that's a different thing but like I and I think it really hindered my comedy because I was needing to be liked in a different way and I needed people to look at me and

think I was I looked nice and now actually like I really really don't want that and I've got bad news for you you still look like a stone cold box unfortunately but what I would say is I think that's a very interesting um I've never heard someone be honest about that in terms of that difficulty to be honest Bella one of the most liberating things when I turned 50 people said oh my god is it difficult and I said do you know what was liberating was suddenly feeling because you know people talk about oh the invisible woman you know you're not in your 20s or 30s even 40s anymore yeah said you know what it was oddly liberating and I thought oh this is how men have always felt yeah that I go in a room and what I say is what's more

important. Yes. Yeah. And I can see with stand up that I understand that for some women it works, you know, but for you, is it that it almost feels not a distraction, but it, but for your performance personally, you don't want to feel like you're reliant on them investing in you physically at all. Totally. And also I don't want people to, my like comedic voice as a stand up is in, is actually very low status. Like I think I'm, I'm quite mad. healthy, but the things I'm saying about myself and my life are quite like pathetic. And so if you're saying, I lost my nail file six months ago and I've just been using the pavement, but you're like dressed really nicely.

Which I love that. That's like one of my new bits I've been doing. But like if you're dressed really nicely, people just think, what? I'm still laughing at the pavement. Give me a minute. But yeah, I get exactly what you mean. And I actually want to talk about, I wait for him to go. Do you notice that I always say him, the person responsible for the noise, noisy man.

I want to talk a bit about, well, certainly when you came onto my radar, because firstly I saw you at Piena Vali's party, and then I found out you were funny, which was just incredibly depressing, that you could look like that and be so funny. And then obviously I feel in the last couple of years, I feel the last couple of years have been pretty significant for you in terms of your profile. Firstly, we cannot ignore a huge viral moment.

When I last looked on your page, I think you'd had over 1.7 million likes. And can you explain what this viral moment, which is when you came to a lot of people's attention, what it was? And it was just literally a sort of video I made in my bedroom after a really bad day and then I sort of went to sleep and it was this huge thing but I was again it's yeah I was I bought this new top I thought looked really nice I had these like big

shoulder pads and I thought that's really girly and sweet and then I went out and it was quite a cold day so I put a jumper on top and people were looking at me all day and I thought wow what an amazing day I'm having like people really I'm glowing today and I came back and looked in the mirror and the effect of the jumper over the shoulder pads had made me look like a football player. I mean, it was like... I mean, I'm going to say worse. Yeah, yeah, it was worse than a football player.

I've never seen anything like it in my life, Bella. I couldn't believe it. It was extraordinary, because the top we should say had that sort of look that was very, it was like prairie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bit sort of like huge, sort of over-exaggerated ganny sleeves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that looks fine because when you're wearing the shirt, you get the conceit of it.

And you think, oh, that's a look. But when you put the chumper over it, it made no fucking sense whatsoever. You just look weird. I think I presume that the sleeves were sort of collapsed. And then they just really had a lot of structural integrity. And it was. But I think that was kind of, I think I was in a weird phase in my career. I'm like, well, Hannah wasn't going very well.

And I was just like, fuck it. Like, I'll just plop some videos out and see what happened. And don't you find with that kind of thing, the only time I went really viral was with Ray, when I just did a, you know, and it was just some stupid AI slot picture of I said, so chat, GBT, make my dog look like a beat of final boss. And it gave him the perfect echo. I put that up 12 million views. And when I think of all the content I've put up, and I spent days. Harduously crafting and that video was, yeah, you know, literally just a minute of, of, you know, literally just a minute of, me talking in my bedroom and it like has done better than any you know I'll upload like a clip of my stand-up that is like a sentence that I've been kind of working out the minutiae of the cadence for two years and it will get and it'll get 16 views and like a fucking talk yeah and and then the one the one time

where like my top goes wrong it gets like you know millions of likes and yeah it still gets like it's still kind of going as well like it was quite a weird moment for me. And you've also, you were so brilliant and have been because you've done it. Well, I've seen you twice on have I got news. And thank you. It's an interesting thing with that show.

You know, having watched it over the years, you notice sometimes it's a real confidence trick because you sort of think you're willing people, when you see young comics you're like, just get it out of the way, just say something. It doesn't matter if you don't get a laugh, but you can't sit there not speaking. And you were

out of the gate I thought you was the key thing was you look so comfortable God that's so nice I mean I I think I felt quite and you were hilarious by the way that's very kind I mean I was I was terrified to do that show were you yeah terrified I've like watched that show my whole life and I've it's one of the shows that is was very formative to me and also it's stressful because who are these people that are allowed to drive through the park why do they get dispensation Anyway, go on. It was stressful because I felt so, I wasn't sure what to wear. I mean, I was like very stressed out about it because I was like, I kind of,

it also wasn't like there was a build up for me and I'd done lots of other little smaller TV things. I hadn't done any really, I'd done a couple of TV things maybe four years before. And this felt like a big shot opportunity for me. But it was also like if I fuck this up, then probably it's over again. and I won't get any more buzz until if I do another hit show and that will be so much work and blah blah blah and I think that they're I'm so, they were very kind to me on that show as well

and they really like. That's on like them. I say that with love, Ian and Paul. But they kind of teed me up and I think that they saw some, I actually think they saw a deep fear in my eyes like before we went on and then there was some. Do you know what I think? And I think it's the key to why Rocheon, who's a friend of mine,

why Rocheon does well, and why Catherine Ryan does well. Because what you didn't do, and it's the biggest mistake I think people often make on those shows. You didn't try and be anyone other than you. You didn't come in and say, well, I was reading an article in New Yorker. Oh, God, no. You were just you. Yeah, it wouldn't have made sense. Well, that's what was so great.

You played into what you did, which I thought was so brilliant, was that you knew that people are looking thinking, who's this? The 22-year-old embryo, do you know what I mean? And what you did, it was so clever because you immediately disarmed, I think, everyone watching. Because you were funny, but you said, you made a joke about doing the Duke of Edinburgh Award.

And it's almost like that thing of saying, I know what you're thinking, and I'm thinking it too. Yeah, definitely. And I think that you learn that as a stand-up as well. It's like one of the first things you learn is that you have to address what you look like when you go on stage in that your first, you know, 100 gigs, that's what people do.

And that, I kind of felt the same with, have I gotten used to it. Also, it was such a, such a nerve-wracking event that I almost, I don't really remember doing it, because I was very, like, and I think a lot of the lines that kind of they made it into the show were not lines that I prepped, even though I prepped loads of lines. It's always the way, it's like the Instagram post. Yeah, exactly. I didn't say anything that I'd prepped, because also the moment is, like, is gone.

Like you're talking about one topic for a second and then it's gone. And if you didn't say the joke then, if you didn't have a window to say it, then you never will. But yeah, I felt very lucky with how that show went really. And you've really had to, we should say, that's something you've really had to address the nerves thing. Because that sort of plagued you a bit when you were starting out. And you've had hypnotism, hadn't you? Yeah, I've had hypnotism. I've read so many books about performance anxiety.

I still have like a huge amount of anxiety around comedy. I think it comes from the fact that I am much more of a writer and a sort of comedy fan than I am naturally a comedian. And like the performance anxiety was so bad when I was like 17, 18. And I was like going to therapists and looking up loads of stuff online because I was like trembling on stage. And I think I would have conversations with people that weren't comedians and they'd be like, well, just don't do it if you're so frightened.

Like it's making you like nearly throw up. with fear and you're putting yourself through this hellish, like deeply painful experience to have, do five minutes of like, tell five bad jokes on stage. And nobody really cares, you don't have to do this. And for some reason I had to push through. And, but I still feel like incredibly anxious about comedy all the time.

Like I think I still feel, I don't feel nervous to go on stage, but if there's anyone important in the audience, I can't know, I absolutely can't know. I can't know if any reviewers, are in. I mean, even if my agent's in, sometimes it will like spin me out and I'll start overthinking and, you know, people always say that again, some great writing advice I once said was never write with anyone sitting over your shoulder. Yes. So if you're writing and you're

thinking, the minute that pops into your head, what will my friend think of this? Yeah, it's over. What will my boss think of this? Yeah, yeah, you can't. It's the, it's, it's just absolute. Yeah. You cannot create anything. You have to feel alone and you have to feel unwatched and, yeah. I think that that's exactly the same. You can always go back and edit it. Yeah. So I say, imagine that you have no friends. Sorry.

Sorry, I'm not noise sensitive. I don't know if we ever seen La Cajot pole, but the boyfriend in that, my sister, girl, brother, she used to call me Albaat because it'd be like my mum would put, I'll just put the plate down, and I'd go, oh! Frank Skinner still can't get over it.

Like we'll be doing the radio show, we'd be in the thing, and someone would go, I'd open the door, I'd go, ooh! Sorry, I should have warned you about Albert. Will's quite useful. You've heard well that. I know, but I can't help it. It's a weird, yeah, but you didn't know about neurodivert,

you didn't know about sensory things when I was younger. So my parents just used to say they would call me emotion in excess of the facts, whereas now I'm like, well, maybe that's just not that. Maybe it's also something a bit funny about me. Yeah, I'm always, sometimes when someone turns the hoover on unexpectedly, I don't like that. Yeah, Bella, it's not as bad as that. Literally, my lovely gentle producer just slightly chipped his water bottle, and I went, ah! We've talked about, have I got news?

And we're now going to talk about Saturday Night Live, UK, which obviously, I was so thrilled when I heard you. you were attached to this. I thought that was a good sign. So how did that work? You're one of the writers on this show. And I also should say, you've appeared in some sketches as well. One of my favourite ones, which is one, everyone has their favourites. I have a list of top five.

But one of them is when there's a team of people, the conceit is that there's a team of people forcing you in some big technology space somewhere, forcing you to click on those ads that come up when you're trying. And you play the girl doing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me how Saturday Night Live UK happened for you. Did you speak to your agent and say,

I'd like to be involved in this? No, it was the opposite. I heard that it was, I heard like whispers in group chats that they were launching it. This was maybe in May of last year or April even. And again, it kind of a confidence anxiety thing. I immediately was like, well, I mean, if that's a thing, it definitely won't be for me. you know like I think also this was before I'd had any kind of profile or hit show or anything so

there was no kind of sense of like well I'm in the queue for that at all yeah um and my agent sent me details about it yeah this is we should say Bella's got one of the nicest agents in the world obsessed with him is called Julian he's fantastic and he sent me the details about it and then I think I said I'm not going to apply because I was gigging every day that I don't know up until the deadline I was like I just I can't write a sketch and it's really stressful. And there have been quite a few moments in my career where I've done that to Julian. And he's given me a big opportunity or he said there's an audition for this thing.

And I've said, oh, I won't this time, but thanks very much. Is that fear of success? Yeah, it was also a fear of rejection and it's fear of trying and it's loads of things. And it's that thing, I come across people like this where it's, and we're all guilty of it sometimes anyway, but if it stays perfect, perfect in my head I never failed. Exactly. And if I never tried, then I could have been perfect

the entire time. And like, I don't know, I just kind of. What does Julian say then? Does he sometimes? Well, he'll just bring me up and say, for God's sake. I mean, not, we're not in a much kind of way than that, but he'll just be like, just apply. Yeah.

Just apply, just do it. It's fine. Just do it. It's just obviously you should do it. And it'll be extremely kind and understand. He's extremely kind and understanding. And he totally, he, the thing that always amazes me about him that he can say the exact right thing that like totally indicates that he

completely understands whatever psychologically I'm going through like he completely understood that I just didn't want to apply because I was like I just don't want to be I don't want to let myself want something and then get rejected from it like I just didn't want that to happen but that is also a good agent that he's not he's prepared to have uncomfortable conversations with you and I think you need to be aware of someone who's not totally yeah and I I I think we compromised in the end where I said, okay, I'm going to apply to be a writer, but I'm not going to send in a tape because I don't want to be, I don't want to audition for the cast because I just

feel like I don't, you know, in my head there were so many people that were so talented and as a performer I didn't feel like I was there and so I didn't, that's, and he was kind of like, like, okay, fine. And so I sent in a packet and it was like, you have to send in a topical sketch and a non-topical sketch and then I can't remember I said in like a few different things. So you wrote out whole sketches? Yeah, I wrote out a few different weird things but I wrote them in, you know, there was one sketch that I submitted that I wrote when I was like 19 that I just, I remember being really proud of when I was 19 and I look back over it and I thought, okay, I'll just give this a little revision and then chuck that in and I mean if I wrote a sketch

when I was 19, it would be about Clement Attlee. at least your stuff still technical. It was about two water slide instructors at the Stevenidge Waterpark and they were like giving an informational lecture on like what to bring into the slide and what not to bring. And it was like incredibly surreal. And it was like really, really stupid. So I just kind of chucked that in. And then the thing is it was such a long process because then I think after that I then didn't hear anything for like months and months. and just presume, well, that's gone, whatever. And I've also sent in so many, like, auditioned and self-tapes in the past that, you know,

you're almost quite used to sending stuff into the ether and then completely forgetting that you've even done it. Yeah. Which I think is a coping mechanism. And then after the fringe, I got an interview and I had so many crystals in my pocket for good luck that I remember thinking, like, they're going to think I'm, like, I won't be able to sit down. But I just, like, I was in a really sort of superstitious, like, time in my life where I just, had gotten really attached to all of these crystals, and I had felt that they were the reason that fringe had gone well,

and I arrived in the interview, and that kind of went fine, I think. And then again, I didn't hear anything for a few months and forgot about it. And, you know, was, I think it's sort of one of the things that I, one of my coping mechanisms is I'm quite a under preparer, and I also am quite forgetful about stuff that is stressful. I'll just kind of, I'll kind of wipe it from my memory.

And then I got a phone call from Jono, who's a head writer, asking me if I wanted to do it. And I mean, it was, yeah, and then everything sort of changed and it became very, I just sort of had a fringe that had gone well and I'd had like two fringes that sort of I'd been quite disappointed with. So everything suddenly started to feel like it was changing. And it was quite overwhelming actually because I think I, I feel like I could. kind of got, it's almost one of those things that you wait for a bus and then three come at once. And I think for a long time after my third Edinburgh show went well, I felt very like

waiting for the other shoe to drop and every opportunity I got off the back of it, I thought, this is actually what this is is a complex system to prove that I'm actually a massive failure. And they're just waiting for, there is some kind of like malevolent, skeptical force in the universe that's giving me opportunity after opportunity and it's like, okay, you got away with that one. but you won't get away with this one and then you definitely won't get away with this one and like I'm trying really hard to get that voice to like go away and I kind of don't know if ever will and also in a way I'm quite kind of grateful for that voice because it does make me work quite hard because I'm so fearful of like and you can learn little ways and it's whatever works for you isn't it but I totally understand and recognise that voice and it I hate it when it comes in and you do you know what I've done this is the most mental thing I've ever met him, but I don't know, Bella, but something about you makes me feel I can be vulnerable. Maybe that's your thing, that's your trick. But, you know, I used to do this thing.

There was a series I used to love called Psychoville, which was Reese Shearsmith, and there was a weird character in it, and it was a strange thing. It's so weird. Do you remember this will? Psychoville. Do you remember there was a weird character that would sort of pop up, and it was, and he'd, and it was, It was never explained why this character would pop up dancing and singing. And you'd just go, not now, silent singer. Because there was no explanation of who that person was. But I say it. And it's just like a thing that I do.

It's like just a phrase. It's like what I do with my dog, Ray. Yeah. Because I've trained him to respond to toilet, please. Always please. Please. Toilet please. He's a gentleman. Yeah, that's so nice.

Only common dogs to just say toilet. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, toilet please. I hate these common toilet dogs. But I say toilet please, he knows that. So that's what I think it's almost like, it's a phrase, isn't it? It breaks you out of that. Totally.

It's almost a reverie you go into where you're imagining your future failure. Totally, and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. Like I think it's, I've really struggled with just, like, there have been so many gigs in my life where I have not been in a good place mentally before towards the gig, thinking this is going to go badly, this is going to go badly, this is going to go badly, this is going badly, this that way badly. And then it's like, why am I doing that to myself? And I sort of decide that it's going to go badly.

And then it does. And like, I think, I don't know. But I think one does it. Because afterwards you can say, well, at least I was right about that. Yes, exactly, exactly. I got humiliated, but I was right. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Exactly. I got humiliated by it was right. What if I'd have adjusted my thinking about that before? I'm thinking maybe it's going to go well and maybe I like this and maybe I enjoy this and maybe this is what I'm supposed to do. And I think also part of it was I had such a moment, I think, last year where I kind of felt like I lost this big relationship or it had ended. Is this the doctor? Yeah.

And that kind of felt like that had been the keystone of my life for a long time. and that ended and then suddenly I was like totally loose and the only thing I had was stand up but also stand up you know compared to a lot of the people I had been in Footlights with my career I would often like feel quite jealous and quite like I was dealing with a lot of like feelings of like feeling that I was crap compared to other people and I should be further ahead by now and that's terrible isn't it when you look on Instagram and you see other people totally and I was falling into those traps like so often and with people that I like deeply love as well, like people that are like deeply my friends.

I would like have these thoughts about myself in relation to them and it was like so toxic and, you know, and I think I had this moment after becoming single again and really, I really fell in love with stand-up again. But it wasn't necessarily going that well, but I was, it was going fine. I was making money from it and I was doing clubs every day. And I think I had a moment where I was like, if it never gets bigger than this, if it never goes to TV, It never goes to anything else, but I'm just doing clubs every day. That is enough. And that is enough of a life.

And it's definitely meaningful enough. And it's definitely beautiful. And I'm so proud of myself for getting to the point where I can make money from telling jokes. And like my 15-year-old self would be so happy with me. And I get to go to Cardiff and tell jokes. And then I get to go to Sheffield the next day and tell jokes. And yeah, it's a bit like it's not that. glamorous and it doesn't a lot of people don't want this life of being on a train all the time and

you know scrolling stuff on my notebook before I go on stage but I do want this life and then suddenly like that attitude shift I had ironically then I think I made a show that I was really I really loved and then weirdly from that I think because I'd let go of like I have to shoot for this critical acclaim or I have to shoot for this like approval from other people like I really let go of that and then weirdly ironically I mean this is the thing isn't it as like as soon as you let go of something it kind of comes to you and well because you're sort of being authentic and I think sometimes you're absolutely right when you work out what you want so if you say to yourself I don't know all I ever wanted it was that thing

about I just like meeting people and interviewing them if I'm curious about people it's no bigger than that that's all it is as long as I get to do that yeah and I get to keep a roof above my head I'm really happy doing that yeah But then what happens is you think, oh, people like this because you're enthusiastic about it. And it's similar with you that I think you've stuck to that. But what if you'd started saying, what's my brand? Yeah, yeah. And I hate that.

I hate those conversations. You sort of do have to think a bit about them. But I think what I need to like, what for me has been the key is like actually just being a comedy fan. and just being like I love jokes and I love to laugh and I'm fascinated by it and I love watching it and I love You know one of my favorite bits is like being at a gig and then watching other people and like watching Other people tell jokes and that was my original love and like yeah, I sort of do it myself But I think why social media is so like terrible for me is because it makes me think about myself so much and that's actually only ever very counterintuitive. You said something really funny on a podcast once, which really made me laugh.

I can't remember which podcast it was, but I remember seeing you hearing you on a podcast. So I'm not my niece. She's 15. She goes, what podcast do you watch? That's how they talk about. But I remember seeing slash hearing you on a podcast. And you were talking about how there are too many tens now. Right.

You were saying, and I thought it was a brilliant observation that we are not programmed to see so many tens. Yes. And on Instagram, we're absolutely overwhelmed. with tens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. You used to see the odd ten in your life. And do you know what, Bella, it would stay with you back in the old days, in the 80s? You'd falling up with some on the tube. I still remember men I saw in a wild-off thing, maybe in Greece in 1989 or whatever. And it made your day, and you'd think about them a lot. Best of my life. And now there are too many. Yeah, and now there are too many. Tens, because people are pretending to be tens when they're not. Yes, exactly.

FOTENs. Yeah, so many faux tens. And also, you have to be. You have to be. be a 10 otherwise it's also like the I find it hard to like post I mean I've gotten a lot easier about it now I kind of care a lot less but like I used to just analyze my face in a photo so much and like turn it upside down to see if it was actually symmetrical and all of this stuff and it's like that's crazy but can I say how I love you for admitting that yeah because what I do so vain while we're here have you ever done this and I'll probably do this with our pictures I'll take the picture. What a lovely picture, a wholesome picture of me and Bella, we both look nice. Let me just scan in. Yeah. Let's just zoom in and see how bad, see if I can spot any flaws in my face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's just see. Because that's what everyone else will be doing. What psycho? Yeah. We'll be looking at a picture of me and you. Who cares? And if they are, they're weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To see how many wrinkles I've got or if I've got cellulite on my arms. And also, if that person's like looking for that, then that's sort of quite, they probably have quite an evil, sad life. you know if they like need to find that in you I know but that's my type people yeah it's a problem if you've got an evil sad life yeah but yeah I think I love that you've admitted that because we all do now I need to talk to you I'm gonna let you go now

because it's the it's the hottest day of the year and I can honestly talk to you for hours do you like this I'd love this I'd love this oh I really wish you'd be my friend God I'd love to be your friend really yeah let's go be friends. I actually was thinking of loads of reels that I want to send you well during that conversation but would you find that a bit intrusive? I would add you to know the other person I'm going to name drop but I don't feel you'll judge me for this because you know it's not name dropping. No no no I explained to you that Honey Ross is my goddaughter and obviously that means I'm best

friends with her mum James since we're 11. Oh wow so Jonathan Ross is obviously yeah known him a long time as well and the person who sends me the most reals is him and what I think this is Jonathan's what do you call it your generous is that act of love or something. Mm, love language Yeah, it's his love language as a friend. And it's the funniest things. It's all dogs. It's all like the Shih Tzu Convention in New York when they all held them up.

Oh, the dog shows. I get so many cat shows, actually. I love cat shows. I'm going to send you, I've got some good cat ones. Yeah, yeah. When they stretch the cats out really long as well. I like it when people do, this is the most cat thing I've ever seen, those ones, where it's a dog being very nice and then a cat going,

scratching someone off and giving them food. I think cats just have women with boundaries. Yes, I know. I just, yeah, I adore cats. But I think it's because they are not needy. And I'm so needy as a person that when I meet a dog that's needy, I think I'm identifying a part of it that I hate in myself. And I can't accept that dog.

I'm like, God, that reminds me of me and I hate me. Like why is this dog needing me and looking at me? Do you want to tell her or shall I will? I think it's probably for the best you didn't eat way. I've made him, I've groomed him to be incredibly codependent. People have compared our relationship to Anthony Perkins and his mother in Psycho because I never want him to leave me. No, but that's fine.

Only death will part us. That's good. I think also, fuck it. I love animals. What's the point of having animal if you're not deeply. Yeah, when I was... Do you think you'd ever get a dog? I don't know if I got a dog.

I'm much more cat. I'm much more cat. But I do like dogs in terms of the way that they make you have a walk every day. Have you seen Ray? Can I show you a picture of Ray? Yeah, I've seen... Of course I've seen Ray.

Oh, yeah. So tell me, Bella, about your Edinburgh show, which is called... It's called Mad Cow Disease. I've seen the poster on your Instagram and you put a brilliant post next to it saying, against the advice. of many this is the poster I've gone with and it's a farmer essentially trying to

batter my head and look away yes running away yeah I just had this kind of like image of myself in the last six months of sort of just like a woman you know there's like women in like white 90s that you sort of see in horror movies and like in the middle of a dual carriageway but they're sort of having a great time you know it's like that's are you going through your affiliate era yeah I think I am I think it's like I'm, I, yeah, I mean, because I finished S&L like a month ago, I'm a bit behind with writing it, but I've been writing, like, mad. And I think it actually is quite good because it's pushed me to just be really, like, honest. And as soon as something's not working,

I'm just like, well, that's gone. I'll just write more. But I think it will probably be my weirdest show, I imagine. Really? Because I don't have time to make it normal. I think Normally I sort of like start writing and I'm like, oh, I have to sort of trim off the weird bits of this to make it a bit more acceptable. But yeah, it will be, it's a bit weirder. It's a bit more charactery actually, this one, which I've never done that kind of thing before. But yeah, I'm very excited about it. I've been really enjoying working on it. And it's, yeah, it's mad cow disease.

And it's on at Monkey Barrel 1 at 12.30 every day at the fringe. and we should say the dates of this do you go up there on the fifth or something i think it starts yeah on the fourth or the fifth of august and then start ends on the 30th so i'm doing the full month and it's my fourth hour and yeah god i'm looking forward to it i i love the fringe well it'll be interesting as well doing it this year i think it's because it feels like your profile is probably the highest it's been in terms of god yeah you know you're doing it's doing it's you're doing it this year i think it's Edinburgh and it'll be interesting just seeing if that experience changes things for you. Yeah, I'm really trying not to think a bit like how we were saying earlier about how like

I can't know if people are in. Yeah, don't overthink it. You're right. I can't have any pressure. I think I, the reason that my last year went well was because I was like, well, no one's going to see this. That's true. I might as well be honest kind of thing and then. Well, do you know what? I haven't actually, I've done Edinburgh virtually every year for the last 10 years. And this is the I'm not going. So I'm gutted. Don't worry. I might even come.

I'll do it. You won't be missing much. Well, you did a private show for me and Ray. I'll do a private show at any time you want. I'll be a private dancer. What I like is that you said that in a very London girls' school way. Hello, I'll be your private dancer.

Right, we've got all our bits. I've got all our bits, yeah. Thank you so much for having me on this. Oh, Bella, I've been. loved having you and you know what I think what I've realized about you during this walk and I wouldn't have expected it is that I think you're someone who you know you have to almost convince yourself mm-hmm that you can do it yeah and that you're worthy and there's a lot of self-doubt and in some ways I find it

frustrating because I think look at you listen to yourself look at what you've got. And then I think in a strange way, that's kind of what makes you so warm and lovely and likable is because people who confidently assume, if you approach everything from a Ronaldo perspective, Ronaldo's wonderful to watch, particularly want to be his mate. No, no. Yeah, totally. I think it's also like with something like comedy, it's like if you don't have a bit of that like pain and bad. out. It's like what are you going to say that other people are going to relate to? And I don't know, the comedy that I like the most is when people have just been saying something about themselves

that is incredibly like vulnerable and I'm sort of sticking to that like Velcro. Like when they're admitting to something that I would like to admit to myself, but I don't, I can't. Like, I think that's what I really connect to in comedy and I think that that's what's really like made it worthwhile for me is, is like using comedy as. a way to kind of kind of as therapy I guess like making something that's sad or painful like funny it's kind of is I don't know finding the value in it yeah so that it doesn't sort of destroy you I don't know and we should say good luck with the current relationship I won't ask any more questions about it but I can just tell you Bella told me

me a bit about it off air. Yep. And that's one I'm going to force you to keep a little bit private. Yeah, yeah. But I have high hopes for this one. So we'll see. Yeah, so why. Yes.

I've got high hopes for this one. Good. Who knows? And you know what? As I say, I'm so sorry Ray couldn't make it today. But I think I did the sensible thing because I would have been worrying about him, Bella. Yeah, and it would have affected. Also, he might have, you know,

been you just don't want a dog that's too hot it's just stressful I think that's the thing you're gonna be thinking about it you just would have been preoccupied yeah and and but thank you for being so understanding and what it does mean is now I've got the perfect excuse to stay in touch with you so I can introduce you to Ray we can go for we can go for a car I'll take you for a nice coffee at a dog friendly cafe and I'm gonna turn you over to the dog side I know you're more of a cat person yeah tell me over to dog. I could be converted, I think. Ray is basically a cat, isn't he?

Yeah. I like the weight of cats because holding a cat is kind of like holding a baby. That's Ray. Yeah. Some dogs are smart and deep. Yeah. And they have a depth to them and they have a wisdom as well and they have calmness and a lot of dogs are sort of slightly dumb extrovert. Ray is, you know what he's like? You've done history of art. He's like one of those Renaissance intellectuals. he would have been a salon. He would have been a salon member.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Voltaire and Deere and all those people. And I know you know about salons. Yeah. Because you once wrote an essay about salons and you cut and pasted it all. Yeah, oh my God, wow. You've done your research.

That's terrifying. I didn't even realize I'd said that on a podcast. I think I dissociate whenever I do a podcast and I just say like every bad thing that's happened to me and everyone I've ever known. And then I completely forget that I've done it. Do you know what? I would listen to that podcast.

Why don't you call it every bad thing that's ever happened to me and everybody I've ever known? I would so listen to that. Oh, Bella Hull. Thank you so much for having me. God, I've loved this. Oh, I've really enjoyed it. It hasn't felt that hot.

Maybe it's about to get crazy. I know. Now I'm doing that thing. We sound like 70s Brexit voters going, I mean, what's the fuss about? No, such thing as climate change. Seeing like red 45s all over the weathermen. All the train tracks are buckling.

Well, and I wish you much success in Edinburgh with your show Mad Cow Disease. Thank you, yep. And it's on in August. If anyone wants to get tickets, can they go to your website or? They can go to, it's on my Instagram. The link is in my bio and then all just Google Bella Hull, Mad Cow Disease and the link will be there. And I'll put up a, obviously, we'll put up a link to that as well. Fantastic.

Bella, oh, come here and say goodbye. So we haven't got silly billy cards. Perfect. in our way. But it's been an absolute joy and a pleasure. It's been such a joy. Thank you so much for having me. I've absolutely loved this. Yeah, I've really loved it. I thought I can't. I forgot that you were recording. It's just a really nice chat. That's how we get you. Bella, give me a hug. Thank you so much. Lovely to meet you.

Normally at this point, I get the guest to say goodbye to Ray and it's all a bit cute. And now it feels really embarrassing that I'm still going to do that voice and go, bye Bella! I liked that. Bye! That's for love. Lovely. I wish there was a dog here, but there isn't and that's okay. There might be one next time. There will be a next one. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.