Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Catherine Bohart (Part One)

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

This week Emily and Ray take an East London stroll through Victoria Park with comedian Catherine Bohart.You’ll probably know Catherine from shows including QI, Live at the Apollo, Roast Battle and Last One Laughing Ireland, but on this walk she chats to Emily about the experiences that shaped her long before she stepped onto a stage. From growing up in Dublin to having a father who was training to be a priest when he met her mother, Catherine shares the stories behind her fascinating upbringing and the path that eventually led her into comedy.Emily and Catherine also discuss Catherine's experience of living with OCD, the challenges of turning your personal life into stand-up material, and the emotional aftermath that can sometimes come with sharing so much of yourself on stage.They also talk about Catherine's brand new show, Borrowing Trouble, named after a phrase her father uses to describe worrying about things that may never happen. The show comes to London's Soho Theatre from September 21st to October 3rd before touring the UK and Ireland. Tickets are available at https://www.catherinebohart.com.It’s a funny, thoughtful and deeply honest conversation with one of comedy’s sharpest voices. And after spending most of the walk being carried around like royalty, Ray has officially decided Catherine is his new favourite human.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm sorry to that I still think it's one of the coolest things of the person you can do. Do you know, it does look great, doesn't it? It does look fun, doesn't it? Sorry, that's cool. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for an East London stroll in Victoria Park with comedian Catherine Bowhart. I first came across Catherine being utterly hilarious on shows like QI, Live at the Apollo and Roast Battle, as well as last one Laughing Island. And I'm also a huge fan of her stand-up. So as soon as we arrived, Ray ran straight over to Catherine with her.

his tail twirking madly, which is a shitsu's way of saying, you're a bit of me. So I had a feeling he was going to fall hard for Catherine, and I wasn't wrong. We had the loveliest walk chatting about Catherine's life from her childhood growing up in Dublin. Her dad, by the way, was training to be a priest when he met her mum, so I couldn't wait to hear all about this fleabag plot twist.

We also chatted about Catherine's diagnosis of OCD and how she navigates that. what eventually led her into comedy and her experiences with oversharing in stand-up and the kind of emotional hangover it can lead to. Catherine also explained why she called her upcoming tour Borrowing Trouble. It's actually a genius phrase her dad uses to describe panicking about things that will never happen. And if you want to go see it, it'll be on at the Soho Theatre, London, from the 21st of September to the 3rd of October,

and touring across the UK and Ireland after that, For tickets, go to katherine bowhart.com. Ray and I had the best time with Catherine. She's just joyous company, and she's also Ireland's secret dog whisperer. At one point, Ray had totally stopped and refused to move, because let's be honest, he basically thinks walking is beneath him. Catherine's response was to scoop him up in her arms for the rest of the walk and rock him to sleep like a baby. He looked so bliss out. I wondered if she'd slipped him a tiny margarita.

Either way, Ray's decided to make Catherine his new primary caregiver whether she likes it or not. Really hope you enjoy our walk. Here's Catherine and Ray Ray. Hey Raymond. Raymond can't resist a bin. Does Raymond have a middle name? That's a great question. No one's ever asked that.

He's just, no, he's just Raymond. Like Madonna? Oh my gosh, cool. How fabulous. My surname's Dean. So when I go to the vets, I do find it weird, Catherine. they call them out and they go, Raymond's Dean. I feel some bit ridiculous. You're like, excuse me, you have to earn the family name. Why has he got myself? We're friends. We're not family. Savage from you,

actually. To denounce Raymond in his weakest hour. Oh, Raymond. I'm sorry to hear that man. I think you two are going to get on really well. I'm already obsessed with Raymond, but I will say I'm a sucker for a tiny dog. Are you? Yeah, I love old dogs, but I love a tiny dog. When I, um, was in living in Kilburn, I really, really, really wanted to have a dog but couldn't. And so I went on borrow my doggy. What was that like? Well, quite embarrassing actually, because I sent quite an earnest diatribe to a woman whose tiny bejean frieze I'd taken to a pitou. And it was like an essay on how, like, I'm actually available during the days and I'm a very

responsible person and I've known dogs in my life. Real kind of eulogy stuff. and she was like, hey, I think I know you. I work in comedy and I was like, delete this message immediately. Who was she? Did you know her? Yeah, she was a woman who used to run the Camden Comedy Club, Lucy. And she let me walk her dog Mabel for five years. And I loved her so much.

And she lives very far away from me now, but she is the sweetest dog in the world. Ray, don't you get there. Oh my God, the birds are bigger than him. Look at the geese. Ray, do you like them? He's so nonplussed. He's not drawn to what I call mock the weak extroverts. And those geese, I find a bit mocked the week.

Do you know what I mean, Catherine? I couldn't possibly say. Whoa. Yes, I know what you mean, though. They are a bit elbows out, those boys. And I mean the geese. Can we just say we absolutely mean the geese? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We mean the geese. They say, hello, darling. We don't have food for you. and I don't think it's allowed. That's not to Catherine, that's to the geese. Oh. They're beautiful, actually, aren't they? They're exquisite.

Victoria Park is full of beautiful birds. Their hair, what do you call the stuff on the top of their head? Is that still feathers, isn't it? Is it down? Thank you. He's looking a little worse for wear, but they are beautiful. Raymond, you're so chill.

Raymond has his back to the geese and it's just like, whenever you're done ladies. It's such a funny energy. He's like, God, are they gonna be like this with everything we see? He's super calm. He's so. sweet. Do you get to brush his hair?

Yeah. Oh, he's a lovely. Oh, that must be so nice. I'm like Rapunzel's witchy mother. That's heaven. Brushing his hair. Catherine, I'm so thrilled you've come on this podcast because I adore you. I adore your performances and I'm already feeling quite drawn to you as a human being. Oh, thank. I believe in being up front. I really like it also. I'm quite quick to judge as well.

So yeah, I'm glad we get on immediately. Yeah, because I will be like, oh, it's going to be a terrible hour. Or I'll go, no, this is nice. Do you know, someone can say one thing, aren't they? And you just shit. What would some, what would make slightly make you think, oh no, I've got one I don't like. Do you? What is it? I think if I'd have turned up and I'd have said, should we get a coffee and you'd have said, it'd be rude not to, I would have been a bit put off for you. Oh, interesting. Whereas I think if you'd turn up and I'd said, shall we get a coffee and you'll, you'd have said, shall we get a coffee and you'll said, I don't drink coffee.

I'd have been like, well, then just send me home. I didn't know that I had it in my mind. But yeah, I don't drink coffee is a big one for me. I'm like, okay. I guess you hate my guts then. Yeah. Yes, I'm the same as you, because I tend to think with coffee, even if I didn't really like coffee or drink it,

I think it's about, it's a bonding experience socially, is what I think. Oh, that's interesting. When someone says, do you want a tea or do you want a drink or do you want a coffee? And they say, no, thank you. I read that as fuck off. interesting words I just think oh god it's so Protestant do you know what I mean to be raw dogging life without coffee I can't why it doesn't have to be this hard do you know what I love I feel about I love about having an Irish person on this

ballcoff seven minutes and bobbison has already come up yeah that's true that's true well I'd mention the Iraq war before we even started so well I'm so thrilled you're doing this. We're in lovely, we call this Hackney? We're in lovely Hackney. We're in Victoria Park. Which is beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's a round I do a lot because I'm training for the Hackney half next weekend. Wow, you were training when we arrived actually. You were running. I had started my run, yes. I'm going to finish it on my way home because I just was like this is a nice time to get some in. But it is, it's beautiful and the whole circuit's about 5K. So it's ideal. And what I love, Ray particularly likes this park, because there's lots of...

Does he? Well, I don't know why, but it almost looks a bit sort of imperial China, some of the architecture here. Takes them back to his roots. Takes him back to his roots in the palace before he was slumming it with me. Ray? Ray, you've got something sticking out of your bottom to leaf. That's tough, man. On air, devastating.

I turned up today, no dog, but no judgment either. You do love dogs, though. You don't have a dog, but you do love dogs. I am obsessed with dogs. I love them so much. I think there's something in, um, I probably as a person, I'm a cat. Yeah. And I am very attracted to dogs. And my girlfriend's a real Labrador. And I think a bit attracted to my hot and cold nature. I just think they're wonderful and I find something so sweet about their complete joy. Yeah. They only really exist to be delightful. Like how nice. They're eternal optimist stuff.

Yeah, they are. I find very inspiring. I would say you were, I don't know you very well, but you have given optimistic energy. Oh, I love that. Because earlier on, is it okay to repeat so? You can see, yeah. Earlier on when you were talking about having,

you were talking about having done, is that Hoffman method in Ireland? Yeah, a hopman process, which was a sort of intensive therapy. Yeah. And this is how you described it. You said, well, my sister had died and then my mum and dad died shortly after.

And then I thought, well, I've got to sort this. And to me, the idea of someone going, I'll sort that in 10 days in Dublin, that. I thought, this is a very joyful, optimistic woman who thinks, 10 days. I'll be sorted. I'll be great. Let's just get it done. I thought, what a lovely attitude to life. Not realising that actually it was a dog that sorted it.

Thank goodness for Raymond. You know, oh, I'm glad. What a lovely thing to say, Cassel. But I was like that as a cheer. attitude. I was like, that's impressive. That's a woman who wants to be out here living. I like it. I like it. It's true. You've got to sort it. Yeah, it's nice. So you don't have dogs, but you do love dogs. And I want to know, what's your history with dogs? Because you grew up, obviously, was it in Dublin you grew up? I grew up in Dublin, no dogs. No pets whatsoever. Both of my parents

worked a lot of jobs. My dad had three jobs. My mom, once in my childhood had three, but often had two jobs. We were not home a lot of the time. It wasn't fair to have a dog. I say all of that as if even if we had been we would have been allowed to have a dog, we wouldn't. My dad is like a clean freak, which I've inherited.

Yeah. And actually, weirdly, I think they were really anti-dog. And then of late, my brother adopted two hours. Oh, what this is as an adult? He's adopted them. And now they call them their grand dogs. and they've really taken to them.

My dad doesn't really know what to do with their size, but... Your dad would not like what's just happened here. No, well, my dad wouldn't do what you're about to do. What Emily is doing is picking up a dog poo as one should. Yeah. My dad would sort of kick it into the side of the, into like a longer grass. And he'd go, Dad, you're not supposed to do that, and he'd go, and then he just keep walking.

And sorry to Pismortch's good name. Well, I'm just going to check. Right, Raymond's, I want to call it his undercarriage, Catherine. Oh! Just to check, he's left. You didn't leave any bits, darling, did you? Oh, is that what you have to do? Yeah, just with these furry ones.

Goodness, I guess you're the one who has to brush it out later otherwise. It's more the smell if suddenly you smell or something. Well, well's got children, so he'll know that. You have to give it the check, don't you? Because when you're, I imagine when you're changing the nappy, you have to give it the once over. Yeah, different with poison girls as well. Is it? That is a fear I have about.

That's why I never had a trial because the boy thing scares me. It's tricky to know what to begin with cleaning them, isn't it? Messier with girls, but we don't need to get into it. Messier with girls, Will saying it feels like a bias of what you know. Clean what you know. I don't believe that. I don't know about that. Messy work.

Wow, interesting. We're learning a lot. But yes, so my brother has adopted these two perfect chihuahuas and now my parents are into them. They're real lap dogs as well. Oh, so they have caught in. into the dogs in later life. They have really gotten into them against their, I think, previous conception they have... Isn't that sweet?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And... Is it a bit late now, mum and dad? Well, yeah, no good to me. But now we... I finally have my first garden in London. We bought our first place. Congratulations. Is this you and your girlfriend?

Yeah, thanks very much. Oh, I love that for you. And now the campaign begins. Does she like dogs? She's a cat person. She likes dogs. I don't think. dogs I don't think she understands the pure joy of them I think if she met Raymond and we can arrange it he's a really good sell I I've sold I want to say

at least four comics on dogs through Raymond people of Lee Mac no dogs comes on this podcast gets a dog what kind what breed a silver Labrador it's a lunatic whoa he went huge yeah he went huge that's nuts and then the comes on again It's a second dog. No, he didn't. A smaller one this time. Or like an Irish wolf hand. No, I can't remember what one he's got now.

It's another type of, but the, yeah, people will get dogs when they come on this. Oh, I wish. I hope that's true. I hope that's true. You're so sweet. And then we, um, but I'm going to try to convince, I think her view is we should try to have a child and then get a dog because if your life changes that much, you might as well do it all. Yes, that's true. Why are you stopping?

sometimes stops. I think it's because the runner there was doing up laces and he was... And he just thought, oh he'll hang out? Yeah, I think so. He just thought, Oh Raymond, you've got so much park in your paws, my guy. You're so sweet. So I want to go back to your childhood. Obviously, we've got lots to talk about with your fantastically successful career and your tour coming up, which I really want to talk about because I'm going to come along to that whether you like it or not. I'd love that. And, but I want to go back to Dublin because obviously one of my favourite things about you is your dad's job. Yes, my dad is a Catholic deacon. I mean, obsessed by this. I think people don't realize that it's also, he has a job and he's a

Catholic deacon. So he has, he is like, he runs a garage by day. And then he also did a theology degree and got ordained 10 years ago, I think, at this point. I didn't really know that. So you're doing, so if you're a deacon, you do that. But what happens? Do people turn up to the garage giving confession through the window? No, no. So it's not like, you basically don't get paid.

It's like you are a member of the clergy, but you don't have, say, like, clerical housing or. Got it. And if you already have a wife, you get to keep her. But if you don't have a wife, you have to take a vow of celibacy. So when he met your mom, Was he going to be a... What I'm saying is, was he a priest who broke bad?

Well, sort of. He, well, that's a good question. He was in seminary. What does that mean? Training to be a priest. Right. Then he met my mum. Catholic priest, this is.

Yes. And my granddad was making a hard push that he should get married. My granddad was like, it's not normal not to have a wife. That was his strong contention, which I think is reasonable. His wife, my dad's mom died when my dad was eight. So I think my granddad was like, have you considered? considered having a wife because it's real nice. And so I think my dad was sort of dating when he was in seminary and then he met my mom.

And so then, but it was a big problem because at the time being a priest in Ireland was an amazing brag if you were an auntie. Like it was a huge deal to have one of the kids be a priest. Because it was a huge, yeah, it was a position of tremendous status in a way as well, wasn't it? Yeah, can you imagine? Pre-scandals, people actually thought it was a good job. And do you think also in some, some ways I feel like also going into the clergy it's kind of like a class thing as well that you're almost you almost jump a class I know that sounds like it my both of my parents were

raising council housing they were not like of money and there was an access to a sort of honour social status academia in a way but certainly to like credibility and goodness and social stature that came with being in the church 100% yeah and so he was actually cut out of a will for marrying the devil woman, my aunt, and my mom, but his aunt cut him out of her will. And she called your mom the devil woman? Yeah, my mom kept the letter because it's like, that's a cool thing. I was always like, I would frame that. Yeah, that's what I said, but she didn't.

And, but it was really tough as well. Like, I think he, you know, he was raised, this is really his story, not mine, but he was raised in a convent for his sort of secondary education and a lot of the boys there went on to seminary school. and they were his family in a lot of ways and then they and then they weren't because it was quite a big deal to leave so I imagine it was quite a tough time but he found his way back well I say found his way back I think the church a bit like the mafia sort of keep your name on file so when they brought the Diakonidin which they did about 12 years ago in Ireland maybe longer they approached him to

ask and he did it what an incredible story Raymond looks absolutely Do you know what? This is what he does. Have you noticed? He just, that's it. I'm sitting down. I don't want to move. I'm really respected. It was really odd when I got him, Catherine, because I've never seen other dogs do this. They just like, kind of like absolutely going ballistic with excitement when you hear walk and they never want to come home. He walks for a bit and then he sits down as if to say, I want to have a coffee now. I love that. I will say that's quite a lot what the chihuahuas my brother has are like. Do you want me to pick you up, darling? Come on then. Come on, lazy bones. Do you want me to carry him? Oh, would you like to? I'd love to.

Okay. It would be my great. I'll take his lead off. And then we could go and sit on a bench for a bit. Okay, lovely. Hi, pal. Raymond. He's so sweet.

Do you want a nice lady? Oh, you want nice pretty Catherine to carry you, not old mummy. Shall we do that? I'll take his lead off. And if you hold him under there. Okay, I'm going to give you my coffee if that's on it. Then you can hold him under his body. Yeah.

Oh, look how happy he looks. There we go. Oh, my God. He's like a baby. But you're a little, oh, I've got to take a picture. He's so nice. Yes, he's like a little sweet baby. Raymond, look at his face.

Oh my god, you're so regal. Look how happy is. I can take my coffee now. Thank you, Will. Raymond, do you like that cuggles? He's so sweet. Oh, nice time, my darling, Catherine. She loves you so dearly.

She loves you. Oh, he's so sweet. I always do that, Catherine, every night. Before I go to bed, I say you are so loved. Oh. Because I think if he never woke up the next morning, I'm wanting to know that. Oh, that's so nice. God, I need to treat my girlfriend better. I think dogs help you treat people better.

Oh, that's so nice. Because they have a much briefer little life. You know, when you think, when you lose people, you think of all the things you wish you'd said, because you think they'll be here forever. Whereas with dogs, you sort of know... It's in built. The T's and C's in terms of life not being infinite are a little bit less buried. Is that hard?

Like, okay, in theory you do. Yeah. In practice, it must feel a bit like, yes, but my dog. Yeah, oh yeah, 100%. Most and should and surely will live forever. Look at this big old bugger. I love that dog. I love your dog.

What kind of dog is it? Is it German Shepherd? It's huge. What did you call him my person? What? What did I call it? I said, what's that big old boy? Oh.

Big old boy, aren't you? How cute. Yeah, oh hello. You're so, what's the name? Alpha. Alpha. You are Alpha as well, aren't you? They're like Danny Devedo and Arnold Schwarzenegger twins.

This is, I love German Shepherds. They're actually very lovely family dogs, aren't they? He's so sweet. You got your little thing on there. Why does he have that just so he doesn't? He's a strong. He's a tugger. He's gorgeous.

The big old boy. Well, Alpha, it's so nice to meet you. Have a nice day. boy I hope you think I didn't mean you. No, no, I thought you called him a Baba or something. No. You are adorable and I love you. Bye-bye.

Bye, Alfa. Oh my gosh. What were you saying about the dog? You said if it's your dog, you think, I mean like, I know the Jesus is these are known, but it must be hard to actually. It is hard. Yeah. And I think, I mean, there are certain dogs where the odds aren't so great

in terms of life expectancy. you're like Great Danes, they call them the heartbreak dog. Oh, really? Because they tend to not live so long. Oof. That's all. I've gone super small. Yeah.

I like that. Get your money's worth. Yeah, I mean, there's no two ways about it, Catherine. It's just horrendous. You know, every person who has a dog feels like that, I'm sure. But it is worth it, though. It's worth it, isn't it? Would you get a second dog?

Yeah, I think so. I don't think I could not have a dog now. And when you get one, you'll feel the same. I do agree. Do you think Raymond would do well with the sibling? No. Look at him. He has only child energy, if I may.

He's a New York lonely boy. He doesn't... He really is a very little bit. Dorman would love him and he would love Dorman. He'd be going to antique bookstores with a Trilby, listening to jazz. Yeah, he does react to other dogs a bit like, only children react to other children where they're like, Shall we be sitting with the adults soon?

Why are you so dirty? So I want to go back to, I love the sound of your family. And I wonder if sometimes when people like your parents, they sort of go through a lot to be together. Oh yeah, that can make their bond a bit stronger. Are they very, I mean, they're still together presumably and very happy, aren't they? They're obsessed with each other. Oh, isn't that lovely?

Mm-hmm. they really, really have always been a unit. Like, they're really like a couple before their parents, if that makes sense. And they think the world of each other and have huge amounts of... Like they really hold each other in high esteem. It's very nice to see actually. They don't, they won't really hear a bad word against each other. But that's great for you in terms of a blueprint for

relationship surely yes they're also it's also like they make each other laugh loads and they genuinely like each other like they want to hang out which is really sweet I think that's probably the best thing in terms of a blueprint is like I think you should want and be excited to see each other and my mom's and dad still are like when she's away he's a bit bereft and when he's away she will sort of wait at the window and it's very sweet well it's that interesting thing isn't it that reason for having a partner. I remember there was a guy I worked with once,

and he said to me, we were talking about this documentary, you know, that me and him and another workmate were just loving. It was brilliantly funny. And it was years ago, and it was about people trying to make it in the music business.

It was one of those kind of things. And I can remember we were all talking about it. And I said, oh, you should, have you watched it with your wife? He said, oh, I'd never watch something like that with her. And I went, why? Well, we don't really have the same sense of humour. got my friends for that. And do you know what, that stayed with me that what I realized in that

moment is that not everyone wants relationships because they want to meet someone that they're kind of connected to in that way. They just see the relationship as a separate part of their life. It's not, I found that really fascinating. I've got my friends for that, he said. Whoa. I, I can, we don't really have the same sense of humour. She wouldn't understand it. I can't even imagine dating somebody who didn't have the same sense of humour as me. I'm sorry I'm sneezing because I'm allergic to the thought that's crazy isn't it weird whoa I feel like that's the most important thing to me yeah me too I think it's the thing that sustains things like if you can't laugh during or after a fight or if you can't wait so

they're laughing and they have sex like what do you mean yeah that's great matching your relationship with your wife being all seriousness well I go to my wife for important chats so what What do you mean? It's so odd that, isn't it? Do you think that that's specific to how he sees relationships or do you think that he just didn't find women funny? I think, yeah, I don't know, no,

because he used to sort of enjoy sharing jokes with me. So I wonder if maybe it was just how he viewed relationships as very different. Look at you sleeping, Raymond. Are you enjoying that? His tiny little dog. He's so happy with you. He's so sweet.

I want to go back to my. My favourite couple that I'm obsessed with, your parents. What are their names, by the way? Are we allowed to know? Tim and Geraldine. I don't think they would be. While I brag about them, I don't think they'd mind me saying that. Tim and Geraldine.

Classic names, classic BBC sitcom names. They really are. Yeah, I do agree with that. It would be hard to change them. Did your mum, was she a homemaker? No, my mom has worked my whole life. My mom was sort of an admin in hospitals. Yeah.

And also simultaneously when we were, when she had three young kids, she did an open university degree, which is so impressive. And then did a, there's a training program in Ireland called FOSS. It's an Irish word. It's for like professional training. And she did a course there and then was asked to teach the course. So she used to do that at night as well. So yeah, they're hard workers. And it was you, your brother and your sister.

Are you the eldest then? Yes, like a strong eldest energy. energy. Yeah, I think maybe you have actually. Yes, burdened by duty nobody gave me. I'm going to call it a benign eldest energy though. I'll take it. I think you have a very warm benign energy. Thank you. I think I'm, that's because I'm chill and I'm holding your dog. But I am quite like, I think I have all of the sort of like slightly controlling tendencies of an eldest child. Yeah. You know, and a bit of a busy body. And I will be like, guess I have to do it then. And everyone's like, no, we could do it. And I'm like, Well, I suppose I'll have to do it then.

And that is my energy. So, what about you? Were you eldest? It was just me and my sister, and she was the eldest one. Oh, you're the baby. But we need to talk about you. Sorry. I can tell you're this, you're very interested in people, aren't you?

I'm so nosy. I love him. You're very interesting. It's just an Irish tendency. Go on, ask me. I also think I feel, the truth is sometimes I feel my poor family, like I talk about them so much on stage, and I talk about,

And they are a point of interest in interviews, but I sometimes feel like, God, I really, they don't get a right of reply, you know. I'll really do this spiel and then they'll go, could you talk about your own life, please? Could you talk about your own life? I think you're right in the, when I wrote a memoir, I had to make that decision in terms of what rights to which story do I have. And I used to think anything that happened to me, so my childhood and how I was raised and how that, that's my rights.

But if my dad, let's say, had someone who had a couple of affairs, just for the sake of argument. Just like off the top of the dome, random guess. That's not my story. Yeah. Because that's his life. Yeah. But, you know, stuff that happened when I was a kid, I think, well, that's okay. Yeah.

You're allowed to say, though. I want to know about you, though, growing up, because it's interesting with comics, isn't it? that often you're looking for that moment, you know, people I'm sure ask you this. It's like, when did you know you were funny? And were you always the Joker and all that kind of stuff? But it's not always the case for some people, is it? I was definitely not the Joker. Yeah.

I was a very formal kid. I was very, like, I wanted to sit with the adults. I felt my brother and sister came four and five years after me, respectively, and I was very excited. That man is so loud. It's so loud. I had a teacher who used to say that, like a drama teacher who used to say that the English were loud because they didn't fear anybody was listening, whereas the Irish almost whispered because they think the English may over here. But I don't know if that's true. But in answer to your question, yes, I was very serious as a kid.

I didn't like to get dirty or anything. Or I don't have huge memories of playing. I'm sure I did play, but I was quite an intense child. And I was very serious in school, very hard on myself. I wanted to be perfect all of the time. Did you? Yeah. So I wouldn't say anybody would have thought of me as the joker.

In fact, I was very like, if there were jokers in the class, although there weren't that many because it's quite an academic school. I was very much the person who was like, okay, well some of us are trying to learn. So shush. That was more my energy. Look at that dog. Do you think I could steal it? It doesn't have a lead.

What kind of breed is that? like some sort of terrier I think oh it's lovely oh okay I think maybe it belongs to that woman sorry about that let's sit here and take a picture shall we oh you're so sweet are you happy for me to hold her I love you holding him okay great I feel really comfortable with you holding him okay sometimes I worry that it's a bit like when you hold somebody's baby and they're like okay no I always struggle when they do that because I don't I'm child free and they oh yes sorry they give me the baby yeah and I'm fine with it but I hold it and then I want give it back. Oh really? I like them when they get to two. I am the exact opposite.

Because I was the eldest child in Ireland of a lot of cousins. Yeah. Especially when you're the older girl, people give you babies all the time. I feel so happy and comfortable with a baby in my arms. Yeah. But when they get chatty, that's what I'm like, oh no, because I think that's where you see people access their own inner child if they can play and be fun and be silly with kids. Whereas I'm like, would you like to do an eight-step recipe together? That's as basic as I can go. I'm way too formal with them. So were you quite a sensible child then?

Yes. Yes, very risk-averse, very tidy. I think I probably... Do you connect that now? Because obviously you later discovered you had OCD? I do think it might be a retrofitting thing where yes I do. I also think I just was, you know, I had a sense of myself as like a good girl. And that was the way I understood my goodness.

Was that through Catholicism, would you say? Probably. Probably. And also, you kind of get whatever is in your nature reinforced, don't you? And then it becomes an almost expectation. So I was a good, quiet kid. But then you get told enough times that's, in the same way that if you're a young woman and you get told, what a lovely figure you have on repeat, it's hard not to value your own thinness then because you go, well, this is what everyone else values in me.

Yeah. And I think those things were top of my list of priorities as a young person. That's so interesting, isn't it? You're absolutely right. You reinforce. Well, it's why they say, you know, and I'm really with my nieces, because I'm sort of doing the work my sister's not around to do, just in terms of that feminine energy I'm giving them.

And I'm kind of so conscious of never saying you're beautiful. Not because I don't want them to feel beautiful, but just not to overly focus on how they look. For it not to have too much importance. Yeah. Yeah, I think it had a lot of importance for me as a kid. Really? And that is still something I'm trying to shake off. Yeah.

What just the physical stuff you mean? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And even an innocent thing, I bet you had people saying your beautiful Titian red hair or something. Yeah. And also I was very thin as a kid. Right.

And that was always praised. Was it? Was it? Was it? anyway, but then I did seize upon that as having a lot of worth. And I'm still trying to unpick it, but isn't every woman in the world. Yeah. But I do look at my friends and my partner who didn't have any, like, Ellen,

they just didn't really talk about bodies. And they don't. I notice when I go to her family home, no one says like much about what you're wearing or what you look like in a great way. in a great way, but it's so unusual for me, that I would like to try to replicate it. Thank you, cyclists, for just giving, letting them drive past. And so when you were at school, were you popular? Okay, this is going to sound weird. No, but I didn't care at all.

Really? I had three incredible friends who I cared about deeply. So you were Harry Potter, basically. Yeah, basically. Yes, without the transphobic. be assured and but I would say that we I just wasn't bothered I had a really high level of confidence as a team I'd say I was really into school the school debating team it's all I cared about I did it at lunchtime every day I was on a committee I debated all the time that was all I cared about I really didn't

care what people thought of me I was a very very concerned child then I got to secondary school and was like the thing I care about is academic success nobody else's opinion of me matters. That changed, but I'd love my 14-year-old's self-confidence back sometimes because she didn't care what you thought of her. She was like, well, the thing about me is I'm very smart, so I don't care. But I think that often shows when you get teenage, particularly teenage girls, you know, that says a lot for the way you were raised, I think,

because I think that needs to be instilled sometimes in young girls. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I don't think my mom, was too worried about being popular either. Which is a good. It's the greatest gift you can give to a young woman, I think, is to say, don't worry about being liked. I mean, don't be an arseol, but don't...

Yeah. Prioritise people pleasing over yourself, you know. I think that maybe also knowing on some level from being like 14, 15, that I was gay and that I wanted to leave Ireland, like I really associated the two together. I wanted to go somewhere I could be queer. queer more comfortably.

Was that why you wanted to leave Ireland? Because was there a sense of you feeling this isn't, being queer is not going to work in this community? Yes. And why is that really? Well, when I, so I came out when I was 19, so post-uny or 17 years ago? Yeah.

At the start of uni, yeah. And you know, gay marriage wasn't legal, gay, people couldn't have children or like adopted anyway. gay marriage wasn't on the table. It felt like everybody was, certainly everyone I grew up with was straight. I didn't know another gay person, I'd never met another gay person until I went to university.

My parents didn't, as far as I knew, know any. I grew up in a very Catholic household. I went to an extremely Catholic school. It just wasn't, in 2015, when there was the general election for gay marriage in Ireland, the phrase I think best described it often when it was like it was a landslide in favour of gay marriage. But it was like a quite like an almost silent majority. Oh, listen to that man.

That man is roller skating. Yeah. There's a lot of, can I say there are a lot of people in this park who roller skate and rollerblade as adults. It's interesting, isn't it? It all feels a bit retro JFK Jr. Yeah. In love story. Also, my mom used to work in children's hospitals and was really also quite risk-averse.

She was terrified of us rollerblading or roller skating. And I still think it's, I'm sorry to say it, I still think it's one of the coolest things of a person you knew. Do you know, it does look great, doesn't it? It does look fun, doesn't it? Like that guy looks so great. Sorry, that's cool.

I'm impressed. If you're gonna learn a special skill, that's the one. Oh, I'd love that. But I just could never do it. No, there he is, he looks great. Guys, he's going backwards. Look, he's going backwards. He looks great.

That's phenomenal. It just has a sort of cheer that an act. And what I like is he's showing off in a way that, you I knew when I was a little girl, if I wanted to show off, I'd come into the room and pull my dress on. And my mum would have put that down, darling. And I'd be so excited. Oh no, dear. We're having tea in biscuits, please.

I'd be so excited about how great I looked that I'd walk in and just pull the hem up to my head. That's amazing. That's the good body confidence I aspired to. That's what these little chubby toddler thighs. Yeah. That's what that man is doing right now. He's phenomenal. He's pulling his dress up.

But I do just think it's so. cheery and sweet, you think good for you, my guy. It's so much more dignified than an adult man on a skateboard. Don't you think? He's not trying to be cool. He's trying to be happy. That's nice. You're so right.

You're on skateboard. I just think, come on now. So I can see that must have been difficult in a way because just that sense. Should we go around back this way? Yeah, lovely. We could also go to the other side of the park. What do you want to do? You can just go across the road into it.

Change the, change the. It's interesting. Yeah. Just that idea of this community, you adore your parents, you adore your family, you presumably got friends here. It's not like you don't love being an island, I assume, but do you feel... Well, it wasn't just, it was the queer thing compounded by the fact that I had real aspirations to be...

And this, by the way, is so unfounded. Out of nowhere, I don't know when or why, or I also didn't know anyone who was in the arts at all. I just felt in my bones I was going to be. I needed to be an actor. Really? Yeah, so I just thought I'll move to London. And so all of that kind of made me feel like it was the place to be.

Look how much this dog is being spoiled? He's so happy. Catherine is holding him in her arms. I'm not thinking he's head, you are. So spoiled, aren't you? You're having the best day of your life. Little baby, little baby. Little buppy.

I really hope you love Polly. one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.