Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Catherine Bohart (Part Two)

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

In part two of Emily and Ray’s walk with the wonderful Catherine Bohart, the conversation dives deeper into anxiety, overthinking and the idea of "borrowing trouble" from the future. Catherine talks candidly about OCD, the way she navigates uncertainty, and why some of our biggest worries often never come to pass.There’s also plenty more laughter along the way, including Catherine’s observations on relationships, comedy and the strange business of turning your life into stand-up material.If you haven’t already, do go back and listen to part one. And if you’d like to see Catherine live, her new show Borrowing Trouble is coming to Soho Theatre before touring the UK and Ireland. Tickets are available at https://www.catherinebohart.com.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Catherine Boehart. If you want to go and see Catherine on tour in her show Borrowing Trouble, do book your tickets now by catherine bowhart.com. Really hope you enjoy part two of our walk and do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Catherine and Ray-Way. He's so sweet. What's his daily routine like? If he's not much of a walker, which I don't want to assume he is this, but he's... Well, you know what's weird again?

People would say, oh well, never going to be. get to sleep with the dog, it's like having a baby. I have to wake him up. I mean, I get up quite early now, so I get up like seven or something. Yeah. I'm literally going Raymond, Raymond, he's just lying there. He's like Princess Margaret. He lies in until about 11 sometimes. That's so funny. He wakes up, has his first bag of the day. He is a bit like that. It's amazing. He's like, is someone going to curl my air or do I have to do it myself? Can you run my bar? That's why he's quite tired because this is quite early for him. We've met at 11. And he's a bit like this isn't it? So funny. So. Wow Raymond, what a life you have, my guy. But going back to your

childhood, I find that, I don't know, I suppose it just, it must have been difficult, I suppose, just feeling, I mean, could you talk to your parents about it? Could you say to them when you realised, presumably you were a teenager, you didn't come out until you were older, but did you just not talk to anyone about those feelings. I didn't talk to anyone about them because I don't know that I knew how to name them. I wasn't, I wasn't a particularly sexual teen. Like I wasn't, I wasn't, um, I didn't kiss anyone until I was 19 or, yeah, I wasn't, it wasn't a focus for me. So it didn't feel like I had to hide anything. There was no relationship or attraction specific to a person. Yeah. But also, no, it didn't feel like the thing, it didn't feel, I wouldn't have even known where to start.

Yeah. And also I really didn't want to say the words out loud in school because I would have been a social pariah. An all-girls school is not the one when, like, lesbian was just so, it was like the worst thing you could be. Right. So no, I didn't talk to anyone about it, but it also, it wasn't like, I didn't have any shame about it either. I don't know how I managed to get around that I think debating weirdly I had this amazing debate teacher Mr Murphy

and we debated every kind of topic and so I had discussed gay rights in theory before it had any personal effect for me which I think made me feel like it was a morally okay thing as an intellectual thing before it was personal which is actually so powerful I think to think of

a group's rights before you almost know you're in the group. Yeah. To go like actually that's obviously that should be fine. Yeah. It was very freeing. And so that's interesting with a debating because what that must have given you is a sense that you did have a talent for performing if you like.

Definitely. It definitely did. I definitely, if I got laughs ever in school, it was at lunchtime debates in debates against teachers or older girls or yeah and also i did it all the way through university and it got me to see the world and read about things i would never have read about and you and you switched universities didn't you because did you go to university college then trinity wow this is well researched yes i went to eccd to study law and history yeah hated law had done law because yeah it's upsetting because you are the dream in the film you are the barrister aren't you're the barrister i know i do understand

why everyone pushed me towards it because I think I make sense as a lawyer but I well actually I found university it turns out I don't think it was law that was the issue I think university was difficult for me because I'd been I've been really good at imbibing the information we were spoon fed and reproducing in an exam yeah and my parents hadn't gone to university and so I didn't understand I didn't feel I felt very very lost and I really drowned in university really drowned I got a two one. I was completely average and that was so offensive to my sense of academic ego. Most people would be through. But you left to go to Trinity and why was that just because

Trinity I think of it's sort of like the Oxford and Cambridge I think of a bit more of Ireland. It's more traditional almost or? In Ireland most people, a lot of people, if you're in Dublin, live at home. Right. During university and so part of the issue with UCD aside from me not knowing had to like sort of lead my own education was that I had to travel an hour and a half every day to get there so Trinity was easier because of a half an hour train and I really wanted to study acting but my parents were like you had to have a backup so I did French in history there so that I could be a teacher if I needed to be so that's what you did at Trinity yeah a whole French in history but with the motivation of a woman who was like I will never be a teacher

And then I did at the same time at night, I did a theatre course at the Gayist School of Acting at night. So I did that for two of my four years. And then from there I auditioned for... And then you went to Central, didn't you? Yeah. The drama school. But I'm wondering, and when, if it's okay to ask this, when did you have this period when you suddenly, you were hospitalised for OCD, weren't you?

Was it during that period, Catherine? So towards the end of my degree, I'm. I mean, my OCD had kind of ruled my university time. Oh, really? Yeah, because I was so head up with being perfect, but so unable to achieve it. And so, like, it presents in lots of different ways in me in terms of, like, obsessions around cleanliness and order and symmetry, but also really struggling with failure and change. Right.

Really obsessive about my body. I was really, like, stringent with food. and so it really dominated and I actually eventually I think sometimes you get like one shot to ask for help if you're having a mental health crisis sometimes you'll pop your head above the parapet and if nobody listens you're kind of fucked but I happened to say to my mom one day I was like

I think I have as I understood it I was like I think I have an eating disorder or something going on and I was very lucky that my mom worked in hospitals so she was able to get me in to see a psychologist who was like one of the best in the country and said that I did have BDD, so body dysmorphic disorder as a part of my OCD. Oh, right. Are those too often linked, are they? Right. And he, when I got into a four-month

treatment program, it's actually a day program, so I did four months of going in every day. Is that me? That'll be me, the unprofessional one. Yes, that'll be me. And you know what it always is? It's the neighbourhood WhatsApp group. Oh no, you mustn't join those. Why did I do it? You must enjoy. Make it start. It's like a Mandelaan. So, yeah, that's... Four months, so that's really tough. But also how lucky I was that I said I had a problem and I got into a hospital that had...

Like there's so many people, I'm very... I feel on reflection, given how few places for mental health treatment there are in hospitals now, how lucky I was. how lucky I was to get into a situation where I had access to that. And when they have to hospitalise you, Catherine, is that just because, because I don't know much about OCD, but what I do know is that it gets slightly abused linguistically that people will say, oh, bit OCD or something because you like the Coke cans in the right thing. It's like, it's obviously a very severe mental illness in some ways.

I think people are like, I think with all mental health things, people will say, you know, like, are they on the spectrum? or oh god he's a bit of an alcoholic and you go like well do you can't really a thing you can be on a Friday yeah um but yeah so it is in essence it is well first of all it is a neurological difference so people when you actually do brain scans of people with OCD and people without your frontal cortex is that right it does overwork right you have OCD so it's constantly vigilant constant um sort of hyper fixation on guard a lot of the time and what sort of things does it Is it cleanliness as common, is it? Yeah, so there are seven clinical distinct types, I think, of OCDs.

They're very different. Some of them are hoarding. One of them is slowness, people moving at extremely slow pace. It could take like 20 minutes to brush their teeth. Right. Sometimes it's concern about health, so worried about contracting illnesses. Another type of perfectionism, which I would fall under. But real intense obsession with cleanliness, order,

symmetry and they become self-fulfilling. So, okay, what's the best way to describe it? I have OCD which means that I am, in my head, I will be better and more relaxed and more able to do things if things are exactly as they should be. Right. So I'll make everything as it should be. But then the next time, in order for everything to be as it should be,

there's another eight things that I need to do. And so, and so, it's, It's basically a liar who tells you that you have to fulfill a bunch of things. It might be that like you have to check the lights, you have to check whatever it is. And if you don't challenge it, it tends to get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And make your life smaller and smaller and smaller. Hi Raymond. Wayman's like, Jesus, how boring.

Girl, I know. And then, and it's almost, I can see that that kind of thing is almost addictive. Like, if you do it and everything works out okay because you did check the lights and you're like, good there wasn't a fire and it's only because I went back to the house four times that becomes a pattern does it there's also instant relief right right a thing I can do now that will appease my immediate stress that it's not done but on a broader level it is an ongoing to-do list that's getting longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and I often think of myself a bit like you know um like when you have robocops and movies

and they have those scanners. You know, they go like, they're clearing, they're checking the area. That's me in my house all the time. It's like checking my head. And so I have to go. How do you navigate that with your partner? Is she, do you have to sort of? I think it's really hard to be the partner.

Yeah. I think you thought you were getting a fun, sexy lady. And you're actually getting quite a. Well, she is. But. Well, she's also getting like a stern, quite mean housekeeper. She didn't hire. She's also getting Mrs. Danvers from Rebecca.

Yeah, exactly. She's also getting like a really interesting. intense work schedule when she has her own life to live. And is it like you'd come into the room and something, like you say, the scanner is almost over processing. So you're noticing something wrong and you can't focus on the conversation because... Yeah, so notice that there's a person there who might have had their own day, who might have their own feelings, or maybe I'll process every sort of use of the house.

That's right. She uses the house. She lives in Raymond as a sort of personal insult to me. Yeah. You know? And you notice it. It's really helpful actually to understand this because this isn't obviously anything related to OCD and I hate it when people say oh I'm a bit like that. But what I notice is people that don't have OCD but it's helpful to understand even when you notice behaviours in friends where it feels a little bit more extreme. I have a friend who's so manic about rapping and people have this joke about oh dad's clearing up the rapping but he can't help it. It's like he'll he stood over me. I had to say

he was holding a black bin liner under me and I said can I just open the present without the bin liner when you're standing under me so then he at once he actually ripped the wrapping off because he was getting so tense that's so familiar like this isn't docity I'm like sounds like it is that's why I didn't want to say it was because I think it is yeah and that's the thing we can't say this but I think it is Catherine because that is unusual to me. Yes, I do agree. I think there's an interesting thing though where you know like you can maybe not have an eating disorder but have disordered eating. You maybe don't have clinical OCD but you do have like obsessive tendencies and they're all extreme versions right because

I think that's one of the things I found hard about diagnosis was discerning which is my personality and which is the illness because actually I am a very aesthetic person. I am a very house proud person. I do like things to be beautiful and that's like lots of people. feel that way that's a normal thing yeah it's about how upset and how proportionate your anger is when things are not exactly as you imagine they should be at all times I want to move on to your starting comedy and you were doing a sort of part-time job after leaving drama school weren't you and you were decided to organise this sort of girls comedy night is that right yeah

I actually was in a I tried to do a part-time job I was working at a property from a Knightsbridge. Really high-end property. I had finished drama school. I'd gone from hospital to a drama school. I have a joke about how, and I maintain this, those are not different enough. That's just both. People singing things they could easily say, Emily. I don't like it. It wasn't right. I was like, oh, everyone has an eating disorder here too. Fun. Yes, yes. And just a bunch of women being propped up by positive gay men. I'm kind of odd for them in both settings. So, where would we be without the game? Honest to God.

And then we, and then I didn't know where to start, basically. I didn't, I got a very small agent, but I didn't do any work or know anyone in the industry. And I didn't really know where to begin with acting. So I just sort of got this part-time receptionist job. But then the property firm was bought out by another bigger one. And they were like, you seem like you have a brain work in the marketing department. And I was in there going, how the hell have I ended up with a job? I didn't want this job, I'm meant to be acting.

But yes, you're right. I was in a meeting and they were organizing an event for women and property and the year before they'd done cocktails and manicures. And I went on a long diatribe, as is my wont. That how I thought that was very, like, diminishing of what it is and sort of like weirdly prescriptive of what it was to be a woman. And they were like, well, then you organise that.

And I was like, damn it. I'm going. God damn. Consequences for my actions. And so then I did a women in comedy, a women in property, like a comedy event. And I googled funny women. Because I thought, I'll book some funny women.

But it turned out that was a organisation that does like courses for women in comedy and does a little competition. And so I got them in to sort of curate the night. I didn't know anything about stand-up at the time. And that evening, they were all a bit like, you're like, you're like, you're sober? And I thought, I could be. but as you know I like to be perfect

so I instead of doing a stand-up gig signed up for a stand-up course and I did ten years of that and then I did my first gig. Was it useful to stand-up course? No. It was for me in the sense that it was the man who ran the

course Logan Murray was very good to me and it gave me what I was after which was as I always am permission. Somebody saying well done you're good enough now to give this try. Yeah. And that's, it shouldn't be what you need, but it's what I needed and it got me started. And then once I started I was hooked. But I was 27 when I first went

on. Right. I think it sometimes helps to help. I think of friends of mine like Frank Skinner who he didn't start stand up until he was, I guess 30. You know, he had, he calls it two lives. You know, the Frank, who was, you know, he was first admit this, he was an alcoholic, he was working in a factory and then his life changed when he tried stand up and I remember him saying to me as soon as I did it I thought this is all I want to do now did you have that absolutely I was like oh this is what it feels like to both want to be better at something and to be naturally good at it I think with acting I had no idea where to start and it was it just wasn't happening with stand-up I wanted to be there every single night and it also was snowballing

It was actually getting traction. And I think that's because I was more naturally good at it. Right. And also, I just, I loved it. I couldn't believe that I could just put myself on stage every night. I didn't have to wait for anybody else to give me the go ahead. Oh God, I loved it. And you did a bit of writing as well, didn't you?

You've written as well for shows. I wonder, how do you find, because you've also appeared on 8 out of 10 cats and all the week and those sort of shows. How do you find panel shows? as opposed to doing live stand-up? I feel like I've gotten much better at them, but I feel like I had two goes of them. The first time I had a go, I got them way too early. And at the time, I don't remember thinking that,

but I was... What do you mean I got them way to? I mean, I got them very, very early. I don't think I was ready. That's interesting. And I was petrified. I was so scared because I was still like, I want to be perfect, I want to be right,

and I just was frozen. and I didn't really know who I was as a comic. And now I'm much clearer on my voice and also now I've done so much stand-up that I've had to fail so much. It's just a part of the job. Maybe you hadn't failed enough. I really hadn't.

I didn't let myself because I don't usually do things that I'm bad at. And it's only when you can relax. That's the real sweet spot, isn't it? When you're doing something. And it's such a great feeling that when you think, oh, I remember doing live radio and I was so scared of,

oh, I'm working with Frank Skin. the commercial webstation. And it was just, I remember what I'm thinking, it wasn't I don't care, but it was like, that sense of fear of failure leaves you, doesn't it? I think when the failure is inevitable, when you finally accept like,

no, no, not what if I fail, I will fail. Yeah, I will fail. And guess what? I will acknowledge that I failed. It's that thing where you move from wanting to cover it up to thinking, if I make a mistake or I get it wrong, I'm just going to say, oh, I got that wrong.

Yeah, totally. And then suddenly you go, okay, I can breathe. And now I find them so much fun. Now they're just hanging out with my friends are getting paid way more than you do for a gig. Yeah. To treat, what a delight. I'm so glad to be there.

But they are a very distinct entity from, you have no control over a walkover in the edit. Whereas when you're on stage, you're in charge. Your stuff, and I love your stand-up, by the way. Thank you. But it's interesting because I've heard you talk about how you've described, called yourself an oversharer. Yes.

And I wonder, do you get sometimes an emotional hangover from doing your stand-up where you think, oh, why did I say that? Massively. Yeah. Massively. After the last show, I felt so overexposed. And maybe it was that in tandem I was doing a podcast, a weekly podcast, where we talked about our lives every week.

Yeah. I felt like I hadn't had a private thought in a decade. And I also found it very strange to be met with. people coming up to me sort of relaying information at me about myself and I'd go, I don't know, is I told like, did I say that on the podcast? What a bananas thing for me now to say? So yes, I sometimes do feel overexposed and this show that I'm trying to build at the moment is the first time I've talked about my OCD on stage. Oh really? Since my first show. And we should say this is the show you're going to go on tour with.

Borrowing Trouble. Which I love that name. Thanks, it's my dad's phrase. We could cut across there. Yes, that's cut across. Borrowing trouble is a phrase of my dad's. He always says, Catherine, don't be borrowing trouble. It basically means like, don't be worrying about things that may never happen to the detriment of your present.

Do you know why I like that? And I hope, please tell me if this is offensive. But I find that very lyrical, which sounds like a real cliched thing to say about someone Irish. Oh no, my God, if everyone stopped saying that, we'll have nothing. How dare you? No, no, it's beautifully poetic, you're welcome. It's so lyrical. It's so beautiful.

And I was telling you earlier, I met this guy, Manus that I worked in a record shop with. Yes. And I remember him saying to me, he was very, he used to listen to my bloody Valentine. Yeah. He hated all pop music in the whole industry. And I remember him saying to me. Oh, men in record shop, they never change. He was talking about, I was talking about ecstasy.

And he said, well, when you take ecstasy, I said, I've never taken ecstasy. And he went, do you know what I love about you? There's no lion in you. Yeah. There's no lying in you. He could have said you're not a liar. There's no lying in you. There's no lying in you.

Yeah, I love it. So borrowing trouble? Yes. My dad telling me not to worry about things that may never happen from a man in the clergy. It's a little rich. But yes. But I haven't talked about my OCD on stage for ages because I didn't realize the first time I did what would happen. Yeah.

Like how many people would respond to me with their own stories of OCD and sort of often please for help and you know I'm not a doctor I'm a clown I have a terrible bedside manner that's the only thing I have in common with most of the doctors I've met and I just think it's not for me so I had to give it a while but now I feel ready to again oh that's so great and tell me when your when your tour starts then okay so I am doing two weeks of the Soho Theatre at the end of September I'm coming to that home along I love that and then I go all over the UK and Ireland up until December.

Do you find when you go to Ireland, are you a bit, you know, homecoming queen? I find gigging in Ireland much more nerve-wracking. Really? Well first of all I know more people than I should in my audience. And secondly, like I had a gig in Cork where I was like, am I related to anyone in the room? Because my dad's from Corker, I sort of said, give me a cheer if you're related to me. And the whole first two rows cheered and I didn't recognise any of them. And I was like, how could that be right?

And then I sort of like focus in on them. I was like, oh yeah, no, that is just basically my dad with a bob. But I didn't buy 14. But so there's that pressure. But also, maybe this is unfair. I think Irish people are the funniest people in the world. And the consequence of that is that it's, you know, here if people heckle me, it's with an insult.

If people heckle you in Ireland, it is with a better story. Yeah. So that's, it's much, I think I find it more scary. But also, yes, Irish people are. like everyone I know will come and that is very very lovely and terrifying at the same time and will your folks come yeah they do they do they always come to see me in Dublin which is very sweet and I think that must be so hard actually because I do talk about us yeah it must be quite intimidating to be like wonder what she's

gonna say today oh god I know actually good of them to always come they must be so proud of you They are, I think. I mean, I think they're very proud of the three of us, which is very sweet. I do think we could do basically anything and they'd be like, those are our kids. But they're not, and they're proud, but they're not overly impressed by any of it in a good way. As in like, they're not... They're not our daughter.

They're not sort of like... They don't care about any of the TV of it all. Right. They're not sort of Britain's got talent parents. No, no. No. Which is my worst kind of parents. Yeah, was mouthing along at the side. I just, I quinge. And I know it's like, yeah, anyone that says,

well, I was a child actor, professional child actor and whenever... Sorry, what? Yeah. Why, you can't just drop that in. You're a professional child actor. Well, my parents were in the business. My mum was an actor and my dad was in TV. So the only reason I got involved in it was just that they were seeing it from a theatre. point you go. It's very good for your confidence and your learn projection and diction. You can speak from your mum. Yeah. They weren't doing it for me to work. And then I started

getting parts and they were like, oh, okay, do it. But they kept stuff. My mum didn't allow me to do quite a few things because she... Good, normal. But I would see these parents and I can remember I have such an aversion to it now. I don't even... I think because I understand how damaging it can be. Yeah. Well, even when I see kids, young kids, getting awards at the BAFTAs, I honestly think that should be over 18s only. I do agree. I just think, are they okay? They're getting up on state. It's not natural for kids. No, and it's, and also, like, it feels very exposing, and like, that will be, they'll sort of have to see that for their whole lives, but they don't know necessarily what they're getting into. Well, your frontal lobe hasn't developed, and I don't think you can distinguish between what's real and what's not.

And anyway, that's a whole other podcast. But it's interesting, yeah, you seem very, OCD notwithstanding, body dysmorphia. You seem very well adjusted for a comic. So I often ask people, what's your damage? And it's not, sometimes it's a messed up childhood or parents. That's clearly not the case with you. No. So is your damage that you can be your own worst enemy?

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. And that maybe now I'm more well adjusted, but for a long time I felt like the world was out to get me, I think. Yeah. But I also think my, that thing you said earlier about having two lives, like, I think the privilege of having gotten to 30 before I started to make any money from stand-up is that I still can't believe I get paid money. to do stand-all. Really? Yeah. It's so cool. Are you mad? Do you know how crap other jobs are?

I can't believe it. And it's so much money, by the way, in relation to how much work you do. And the work's fun, and it's with your friends, and people clap at the end. There are people doing such difficult jobs for such like piss poor pay.

Yeah. The idea that we get paid what we do to have a laugh and that carers or nurses or bin men get paid. paid less is I think if you're not grateful then you're a bit of a gob show. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just so thrilled that it's my job.

Yeah. That maybe that helps and that also keeps me at it. Like I makes me, what's my damage? Hmm. Does any, do you think anyone answers that question honestly? Yeah, sometimes. Do you? I think, well, I think if you've done therapy, you can consider yourself a

Maybe it hasn't worked if you can't answer that question. Is that true or is it like... Well, I suppose it depends. So my... I'm very happy to be honest about what mine was, which was slightly parental-based, but when I go... When you, I did this thing called the Hoffman process, you have to write on a label, what do you most... What's your worst fear about yourself?

And you wear this. Okay, wow. And I put unlovable. Gosh. which is pretty heavy. Yeah, that's awful. But what happens when you start with that and what's so clever is that it doesn't get worse than that.

Yeah, that's true. You told a room full of strangers, that's true. I'm unlovable. Yeah. And so what happens is by the end of it, if you can sort of get through that and form these relationships and do the necessary work,

the joy when you take that sticker off. Relief. I didn't ever felt anything like it. Wow. Did you wear it for all 10 days? I said, guys, can I have a day without the effort? unlovable. Like in five minutes. We change it up. Five minutes. But I never understood it because some people might say well that's humiliating but how I viewed that was no if it's it's about this

whole thing isn't it that it's the darkness is what you hide from the world and so the minute you face that what's the worst that can happen. It's your worst nightmare that people think you think that about yourself when you tell people that you almost relax because I think stand-up's not dissimilar. Yeah. Because actually all the things that were shameful being gay being mad being like non-religious in a very religious upbringing all the things that were failings are the things that basically get lauded in stand-up right they're like suddenly give you a story to tell they give you and like something to connect with people on and they are

funny maybe and then suddenly they become your sort of you you're calling cards. Yeah. And I think it's like that, it's like, when you say them out loud and people are like, cool, you go, oh, okay, cool. I mean, sometimes they go, you're okay. But most of it, if you're doing it right,

they'll go, now that I'm doing this new show again, I'm back to talking about mental health, I forgot that you have to do so many whips where people are like, everything all right at home. And you go, oh yes, I'm just figuring out which bit's funny, thank you. But yeah, I think that's the same effect, actually. Who you've encountered during your career in comedy has been, I don't want to say a mentor,

but who struck you as someone who's been incredibly in the industry, another performer maybe who's been unusually supportive and kind? I've had loads. I've been really lucky, actually. I've had so many. Nish Kumar and Ed Gamble are two of the nicest people. I don't know if they realise that they have been so important. They just have always come to my shows. I know that sounds so small. But when you are new and the big boys come to your show and they laugh and they have such distinctive big loud laughs.

Nish is actually distracting actually. It's like being at school, isn't it? When the popular kids come and sit with you at the lunch table. Yeah, except that there aren't really any popular kids and we're all dweeps, but... You're all the losers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We bonded.

And the head of the losers just come over. Yeah, yeah. Nish Kumar comes to my show. Sorry, you've been on this podcast. You were a great guest. I've now called you the head of the losers. I don't know what to do. He would love it.

But they, there's something about that sort of like, okay, I'm a real comic. Yeah. They were really important. I mean, also, the people who've been amazing have been like, Paul Byrne was my first director. And then Charlie Dinkin and Ellen Robertson and Jet V. are all people who've, and my best friend, Georgie, actually, who they all have at times where I've been like, I can't do this, I'm not good at this, or I'm not good enough at this.

They've all been like, shut up, onto the next. Yes, you can. And I think more than anything, that's what you need in stand-up. You kind of don't need people to go, like, you're the perfect, you're the best, but you do need people to go, okay, what next then? Because you can do it, so what's the next idea? Comics do you like watching?

Who do you say, who did any stand-ups particularly inspire you growing up? Well when I grew up we only had three channels on my television. So the only stand-ups I thought that existed were Tommy Tiernan, Darrow, Bryn and Joan Rivers. So they all did, because I truly thought they were it. Dylan Warren Okina, I was like, oh, who's this new up-and-comer? Yeah. But they were all very important to me. Maria Bamford is probably my favourite stand-up.

She, I think, is incredible and she does madness very well on stage, I think. But there are so many. I mean, Michelle Wolf is incredible. I feel like Pasco, Catherine Ryan, Ashling are all big influences. But there are so many. I feel, but Maria Bamford is who I go back to when I'm sad, for sure. She's just so funny. How do you navigate and manage? or OCD now, Catherine. Is it something that you're conscious of? How do you, I'm just thinking with that hospitalisation

and do they give you tools to be able to deal with it later? Yeah, it's a bit of a fucker though, because it's a real shape shifter. So you'll think you have it under control and then it'll go, what if I go, what if I do this? And that will have gotten into your routine before you even

realize you have to do it. It's not an option. The answer is, I think I thought that I was cured of it and had it under control. And then whenever there's a big change, I go, oh, there you are again. So, for example, I moved house. And it really was back with a bang. Yeah.

So it feels like it's triggered by uncontrollable situations. And that's the definition of an uncontrollable situation. Yeah, I mean, so is life, right? Yeah. But it happens all at once and it's very dramatic. It's a lot. Yeah. It's a lot.

And so the answer. answer is to varying degrees. Like sometimes I'm okay. Sometimes I'm really not. Yeah. One of the things I get most like hard on myself about is that occasionally I can't work from it. Like sometimes I will feel like I can do more than I can and then I'll have to cancel gigs and I feel like that's really shameful. But I am and have always been medicated since I was diagnosed. Oh, so they have medication for it. That's great. Well, they have anti-anxiety medication which helps, so SSRIs. Yeah.

And then I also have therapy and we'll probably have to for a long old time. Yeah, part of your life. Yeah, but I have that more now because for a long time, I should have probably been having it but couldn't afford it. But you know what? I think therapy, I've never met anyone and thought such a shame they've had therapy, they would have been so much better without it. That's true.

Like it's the one thing. In the same way that I've never met anyone, I thought, I wish they were drinking again. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, there are certain things. Oh, can I say I have? Is that really toxic? Yes, but I love it.

Sometimes I find sober people so boring. I kind of love that you said it. Listen, obviously not if it's an illness, but we do think, Jesus, guess. Super soft ice cream. Do you want an ice cream? I actually don't want an ice cream. But would you like one? Only because I'm going to finish my run after this.

Oh, you've got to do your run. I'm so sorry. Get one. Get one. What if I'm the only one that orders an ice cream? That's so sweet. Do you think that's what I think I should have? And then at the end you can pull your dress off.

Oh no. Excuse me? Ice cream man. Or woman. Excuse me, ice cream man. Oh, there's no one in there. It's an empty ice cream van. Oh, that's for the best. That was meant to be. Oh my god, that's such a tease.

But that's really dangerous. We could have stolen the ice cream. Yeah, grab a tone. Wow, that's devastating. Are you okay? Bye bye, ice cream man. Is he in the black bag? There's a black bin liner in the front seat and nobody's driving the van. Can I say you're being so dignified about this? I'd be furious.

If you wanted an ice cream? If I decided I wanted an ice cream. I'm a bit worried. This looks like a 24 hours in police custody. You think they've been abandoned? Bodies being chopped up and put in the black bin liner. Oh wow, you went dark. So fast.

I love a true crime. Me too, to be fair. What's the best one you've listened to lately? Of course we do. We're women. And we have to know what our enemy is. what our enemy looks like. It's so grim, isn't it? Like we think we're going to somehow protect ourselves and that's not how it works. Well, I find it weird when men say to me, why do you women obsessed with your true crime? It's like, well, we need to know. We'll look, we call it research.

I think it's like, yeah, it is a sort of fascinating and also it keeps happening to us. Yeah, it doesn't really, exactly, it doesn't affect you. No wonder you don't care about it. Do you have a good one that you've been listening to? Well, at the moment, I mean, I'm going through, I go through a lot of binging with TV-wise, by the way, not just podcast. 24 hours in police custody will always be my favourite. Do you watch that? No, I don't like it to be quite so real. I don't like that.

I kind of want like American women. Yeah, you want a nice Willa Paskin in a studio. You want a nice late New York lady. Exactly. I wanted to be like, you girls are not going to believe what happened to this. Like, to a woman I went to school with. Yes, please, great. You don't want the grainy footage of the superintendent.

I don't want to police anywhere near my entertainment. That's what I'm going to say. I don't like him. I don't find him amusing. We're getting to the end of our walk now. Yes, we are. I have to say, Catherine, I really like you. Is that how the podcast, do you say, do you ever say,

we're getting to the end of our walk now, and I have to say, I really don't like you. Do you ever say that? No, but I tell you what? They know when I'm done. I just kind of say, Okay, then. Okay.

See you again. Bye-bye. Raymond and I won't call. I don't say I really like you all the time, do I will? Not all the time, no. Don't say it like. Will's like you've never said it to me. No, he knows I'm in the bank.

No, I think you have a very good energy and I really pick up on energy, I think. Thanks. I think you caught me, this is one of probably my favorite way to hang out. How is it? If there's a dog and we're walking and this, This park in particular, yeah, it's so soothing. And Raymond has been an absolute joy. I can't believe he's just been in my arms the whole time.

Can I say Raymond has slept in Catherine's arms? I wonder if this is like you were saying with the Irish family, with all the babies. And the lyrical lilt. You've got a little maternal way with you. I do. I am good with an old baby. And Raymond, you've got so much park in you. He's only on the ground for 10 minutes.

No, he's so tired. He's going to sleep well tonight. He's tired from being carried round the poor. Yeah, he's tired. What a life you must live. Little rock star. Does he do any... Have you ever done any of that, like, dog therapy? Like, do you...

Have you found out a star sign? I dare you. No, okay. No, I tell you what we've done with him. We had puppy training classes. Yes. But he didn't really need training. He's so well-mannered.

He doesn't bark. He's never barked. Can we clone Raymond? He walks on the path, who thinks it's common to walk on the grass. He's a real old gent. He's a real snow. I like the guy. He's an angel.

You're an angel. So Raymond and I'm going to be sneaking him in my coat when we come and see you on tour. You don't need to sneak him. I'll get him his own seat. He can sit on stage. I'll get him a poof. He's so welcome. I'd love, if everyone brought their dog to my gigs, I'd be ecstatic.

I think it'll be great. Yeah. I'll be heaven. I need to. ask you something which I sometimes ask people is, when you leave a room, what do you most hope people would say about you after the door was closed and what do you most fear?

Wow, the way I can't think of a single thing, I hope they say, but I have so many concerns. Start with the easy one. What do you most fear they'd say? Yeah, I obviously fear that I, predominantly I cannot bear a silence. I don't know if you notice that about me. I will talk through every... And so I will often say, I'll wang on, and then go like, oh, fuck, why did I say that?

And why did I talk so much? And so I will often worry they were like, few, thankful. That was crazy. She's so much. And also kind of stern and insulting, but it's confusing. So that would be your fear that they would say Catherine's a bit much. Yeah, and also like, wow, that girl talks a lot and yikes. Yeah.

And then I'm going to do something really difficult. I'm going to make you be kind to yourself. What would I hope they say? Think of what you hope people might say about you after they've closed the door. I hope they would say that they feel better for the chat. I think I ask. When I'm on my calmest best form,

I can be quite good at asking people questions about what's going on with them. I think that's why I'm a good MC. I'm quite nosy. You know what? And I'm honestly not just saying this. I do feel better off to having spent time with you. That's nice.

Good. How about you, Raymond? Raymond, by the way, would be crazy if you felt worse because my guy, you've been on your back the whole time. You did something interesting then. You slightly deflected that happen. Would you agree with me? Yes.

You said, oh, ha, that's nice. And then you made a joke about Raymond. Mm-hmm. Are you uncomfortable with you? compliments? Well, yes. Well, yes. I think when I get a compliment or if I do well at something I feel relief, like the expectation is that I would do otherwise. What should we do? But not comfortable. I understand that, but that's maybe the perfectionism thing as well. Am I, do I deserve this? Well, I think you do deserve it. Thank you. And you're going to have to

take this one. Yikes. It's uncomfortable, isn't you? I'm surprised you like them. I feel I love them. Do you? I absolutely love it. I love compliments. I thought this was the intersection between the English and the Irish was that we neither of us could cope with compliments. Yeah, but I grew up in a theatrical household with very needy, needy parents. This is the thing I, and I leave, I will stop talking. No, you carry on, this is what we're here for. It's the real change in my friendship group from dating an actor. Is that all of my friends come to my shows and are effusive.

Especially Ellen's actor friends, I'm like, oh my God, and here's another thing I like to better than here's no... I was like, what the hell is going on? Well, it's that training thing. Like I have, if I go and see someone in something, whether it's stand up or a play or whatever, and I have friends who say, oh, we won't go back, it's, we shouldn't impose ourselves.

And I said, what do you mean? Don't go back. Yeah. You basically may as well say I thought that was fucking shit. Yeah. And I hope that you have a terrible terrible run. Not only do you go back. You give great thought to what you're going to say. You don't go back and go, hi. I've actually seen people do that. They don't go, you were amazing. Yeah. That's non-negotiable. Yeah. I've had that after shows. I once, Ellen had to pull me aside once. We went to see now my very good friend, Olivia, but I didn't know her at the time. Ellen's my partner and she's an actor and we went to see our friend Olivia in a play and I said oh my gosh that was great you looked like you're having so much fun were you no no no what the hell is wrong with you Ellen was like sorry pull let's come and move to the side did you oh sorry sorry sorry but she was like did you mean to basically spit in her face and I was like sorry what she's like never ask an actor if it was fun and I was like okay understood so yeah and we all know the trick if they hated it when they say well you've done it again. That's if they're terrible and they're always terrible.

Amazing. That's the best thing I've ever heard. Well, done it again. No stop it. That's too funny. That's brilliant. I like that. That's what you have to start saying. Oh, Raymond, isn't that good? Well, we're done it again. Oh, Raymond, isn't that good? We won't be saying that to you when we come to see you. I actually hope you do. I'll laugh so much if you do. Well, you've done it again. That's fantastic.

Now I've got to say it when I come and see. Yeah, that's really excellent. So, well, thank you so much for doing this podcast. You've been such a joy of a human being to spend time with. Thanks. I've had a lovely time. How are you feeling about that? I said thanks.

I said, thanks. Thank you. I think it's Catholic Gill. It just feels... It feels... It feels inauthentic to you. It serves like, ah, no, don't be getting ahead of yourself. It's like cocky or something to go like, thank you.

I feel like if you said that to an Irish person and then you say, if you give a compliment and they say thank you, you think, oh, so you agree with a compliment. I understand. So mad, we're mad. Well, you've done it again. I will actually be gutted if you don't say that to you after my show. Well, we've done it again.

I'll be gutted if you don't. your next tour that. I am desperate to call my next tour that. I'm also desperate to say to every stand-up that I, well, you have done it again. Well, that's so good. I think you should call it, well, she's done it again. That's the next show. Okay, so the pavilion cafe is just down there. We're going up here and you're going to love us and leave us here. Yes, I am. That's all right. We've had a lovely time. Thank you so much. And I really want everyone to go and see you. Please do. I would love that. And your show, we should just give a shout out to where you can get. Tickets? Oh yes, Catherinebowhart.com or at the South Theatre website. And it's called... And it's called Borrowing Trouble. In honour of Paul Bowhart. My sweet father, my sweet dad. Who loved Daddy Bowhart?

Yes, oh my God, he'd love to hear it. Oh, Daddy. He'd love to hear it. Would you say goodbye to Raymond? Bye, my man. Bye, sweet boy. Oh my god, look it. He's so cute. When his mouth is closed, it looks like he doesn't have one.

Yeah, you're so cute. You're getting a bit of stress now, give him bad. Okay. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.