Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Cecelia Ahern (Part Two)

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

We're midway through our stroll in Regent's Park with the international bestselling author Cecelia Ahern! Cecelia tells us about what it was like to have her debut novel PS I Love You adapted into a film when she was in her early twenties.We chat about Cecelia's new novel, Into The Storm, which explores themes of unprocessed guilt, complicated female characters and the influence of pre-Christian rituals. It's a rather brilliant, suspenseful book and and you can get your copy here!Cecelia also tells us about dealing with panic attacks and how writing helped her overcome them, and her rather fabulous trip to The White House. Follow Cecelia on Instagram @official_ceceliaahernFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Really hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with Cecilia Ahern. Do go back and give Part 1 a listen if you haven't already and do grab yourself a copy of Cecilia's brilliant new novel Into the Storm. Thanks so much for listening to Walking the Dog and I'd also love it if you gave us a like and follow so you don't miss an episode. Here's Cecilia and Ray Ray. Piers I love you as I say. That obviously became huge and it translated into this whole Hollywood episode if you like.

in your life where it got adapted into a movie. I'm just imagining you at 21 or, you know, whatever you were by that stage, early 20s, sitting in boardrooms and... Yeah. Was that quite overwhelming at that age? Yeah, I would say that the early years were very overwhelming.

And the way for me to focus and ground myself was just to keep writing. How did you deal with that? Were you sort of faking it till you made it essentially? But do you know in that thing of thinking you've got your mum's high heels on when you go? When you know when at that age, you don't trust your instra. No, no, I was thinking about this, that my career is always being kind of one step ahead of me

in that I haven't been ready for what it is at any given point. And the way to explain that is, I remember when I went over to the US first to do pre-promotion. So before the book was even out, I went over to travel state-to-state meeting booksellers, having lunches and dinners of booksellers, introducing myself, talking up the book. And I found that overwhelming. me. Like at one stage you were in four states in one day and I found that really difficult. The social aspect of it, trying to be interesting consistently all day with these really well-read brilliant people in an industry. I knew nothing about. I thought that was hard. The next time I went

back I was kind of thinking, I can do that. I've got my stories now, got my chat going, but what was added on was events and bookshops and I thought, oh that's terrifying. I have to do the whole public thing now. I found that really difficult. I got very nervous. And then I kind of figured out how to do that and the next time I went over they added media and I thought oh no now I have to I can do all the other stuff the lunches the dinners the events and now I have to go on TV and figure that out and I and I feel it's it's always happening and it's good I think it's good to constantly feel like it's getting bigger than you no you mean it is to do with your comfort zone as well isn't it because you're pushing yourself each time yeah and that's good it's good as a human

being to try and push yourself and evolve and become better and more confident and braver and that life never ever stay still there's always something new that you have to do i don't even know the latest figures but the last time i checked in it was at least 25 million yeah i think that's yeah i mean that's incredible no it is incredible it is when i uh when p slovi was published first i remember that we got to a point where there's a hundred thousand sales in ireland And I couldn't really wrap my head around what that number was. You know, you're just seeing it. And we went to Crowe Park, which is our, it's our national stadium for GA.

And there's, it holds about 100,000 people. And my husband looks around and said, or my boyfriend at the time, that's 100,000 people. That's how many people have read PSLLU. Probably not the people in the stadium. But that's the amount of people. And just putting the faces to it like that was incredible. And that's the experience when, and you've experienced this a number of times, but when your books get made into films, you know, I'm thinking also of Love Rosie, which was based on a book of yours with Lily Collins and Sam Plathen. I love that film. Oh, I love that film.

And ever ages as well. That one is, it's a really, it's amazing cast. So, for example, with that film, you have, presumably, you live with those characters in your head for a long time in your writing. Yeah. And you must have a very strong idea of them. But I wonder, do you ever have experienced that thing? You know, for example, with Bridget Jones by Helen Fielding, where I had my own idea of Bridget. It was nothing like René Zellwerger, but now she's done it.

I cannot imagine anyone else ever. She will always be Bridget Jones, and it was perfect casting. Yeah. Do you ever go into, you know, sort of like with meetings and stuff, do they consult you? Do you ever think, oh, no, that's wrong? And are you proved wrong? How does that whole thing work?

No, I don't ever feel, oh, no, that's. wrong because I think the one thing I know is I go into it with a very open mind that the book is mine and the film or the TV show is someone else's whether I'm involved or not that the book is the only thing that is mine and that this next process is collaborative it's somebody's interpretation and get ready for change and I've read enough books and seen enough adaptations to know that things change and I still like that so it didn't bother me if Holly wasn't blonde or you know it really really did not matter I was always looking at quality I was

always looking at the best teams to make it you know what's that what do we call that now I was going to say oh Jen said producer had to fill us in well do you know why heron is the heron crest there's three herons I thought maybe a heron over here look different. That's your excuse. I'm not buying it at hand. Nice try. But I think that all throughout the process

whenever anytime anything was happening people were always telling me this never happens this is very rare. Really? And this probably won't happen again. This never happens. I never felt that I was lifting off my feet and floating away thinking I was amazing and great

because at every point I felt weighted down by the fact this is amazing. This will never happen again. This is, you know, this is, you know what I mean? But do you think, I wonder if it did help, though, in a way that actually having a dad, admittedly in a very different line of work, but where you were aware, because he had the public perception of who he was and what his life might be like, and the reality, which was very normal, just hanging out with his kids on Sunday. I wonder if that was helpful for you to sort of keep everything in perspective a bit. I think that's probably a very good analysis of that. I think so. Just being aware of a public perception and the reality.

But you didn't run away with yourself, I suppose. No. And also I'm Irish and we're just very grounded. And I think people aren't really allowed to float away too much. It's a small village, you know. It's a small village essentially and we all have to stay at the same level. I feel that. Well, you don't have to because you could have moved to Los Angeles and you'd change. chose not to, didn't you? Yeah.

Well, La Sanchez is full of writers. I think there's two writers in my town. So I'm special. Could have, yeah, we could have. And actually, I went over back and forth quite a lot and stayed there for a time. I don't know if I see you living there. No.

Why don't you see yourself living there? Because it don't. I mean, it obviously is a real place where real people live and people have lives there, but it's just, I think it's not, it's not for me. I love going there for work. I love it. It's very inspiring. It's very creative.

Everyone's got a story to tell and they want to tell it. And that's brilliant. That's where you want to be. I love, you know, as a lover of film and TV, I love going to these studios that you grow up and feeling I get this, like that's, I get an adrenaline. This is where they make stuff happen.

And that's brilliant, but I think in order for that to feel special, you don't live there. You pop in and out. and then you experience real life at home. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah, I understand that. So if anyone wants me to move over and work, I'm available.

I want to talk now about your latest book, which I was lucky enough to get a preview copy of. And I really loved it, Cecilia. And it's called Into the Storm. It is. it's very suspense-filled but I also loved it as a brilliant I suppose I loved the heroine

because she's so flawed and I again I love the fact that we can have heroines like this now who you know there was a time and I don't know if that was something you were maybe more aware of then but where there was a sense that women had to be likable all the time

in books and things films and all that sort of stuff. And I love that this character is so complicated and troubled. The book, we should say, is I don't want to give anything away, but she's a GP, isn't she, called Enya? Yes. She's one of those people who comes across as incredibly, well, she has to appear relatively capable for her job. Yeah. But there's so much tortured stuff going on under the surface. And I found it very interesting. Just on, just that theme of, unprocessed trauma, how that comes back to haunt you. Yeah.

Was that a subject, when you set out to write it, was that... That was not in my list, no. No, I'll tell you how I came about, and I will return to that, because that is a part of it. What inspired the story is the rag tree. And to explain what that is, the people who don't know what that is, it's in Ireland, in pre-Christian times, and also, not just Ireland, actually.

Scotland, I know as well. But they don't call it the rag tree. I think it's a raggedy bush or something different. I think it's a clouty. Also that, yes. And we should say what that is, Cecilia. Yeah, so it's trees. And in Ireland it was usually hawthorn trees,

but that grew by, say, a holy site or a holy well, and that was fed through the water of a holy well or an abbey or a church or something, it was considered to have sacred healing powers. So if people took the fabric of a loved one who was sick or dying or needed forgiveness or anything, they were tied around the limb of the tree and as that fabric started to rot away, so too, hopefully, with the ailment of their loved one.

So like Lord, is it the same principle as going to Lord in the water or something? Yeah, of course, yeah, I'd say so. And so I was personally taking a walk in the Botanic Gardens in Dublin, and I saw they have a Wild Ireland section dedicated to Wild Ireland. And as soon as I saw the rag tree with all these ribbons, fabric tied around them, or sometimes there were trinkets. I just saw stories. I saw hope, I saw pain, I saw healing,

I saw the love people have for others and I knew I wanted to write a story about a rag tree. And also when I read it and I saw it was pre-Christian times and it was during Pagan Ireland, I just felt the whole mood of the story come to me. So it was inspired by this tree. And then I thought, well who, what character is going to be impacted by this tree in her life?

life. So that's when I came up with Enya and she as you said is a GP and she has a moment in in a storm on a mountain where she's flagged down by a taxi and they come across a boy who's been hit on the road and she saves his life and his life is saved but hers is not she's kind of drawn into this hit-and-run investigation but she's already wobbly because she's reaching the age her mother was when she passed away and so she feels like she can't see herself living beyond this age or how how is she going to survive if her mother's not there so that theme so it was the ragtree and the theme of approaching an age that you're a parent because of the thing you know people reach that age

if they lost a parent particularly at a young age and it can do a lot to the psyche I've got something to tell you which I read that book and my sister died when she was 43 and do you know what honestly I hadn't even thought about it until I read your book that because that is one of the themes it was really weird it hit me I thought oh my god when I turned 43 it was a really challenging weird year for me and do you know that it only occurred to me after reading your book and I sort of allowed me to forgive myself a bit for being a bit all over the place that year because I've never even made that connection you know yeah and I hate saying it as someone who hasn't experienced it so I'm only going by I have read

and I have heard and I have spoken to people because it's not personal experience but I that you know sometimes people leading up to the age can feel like it's a ticking clock and that they haven't felt free before that but after that age they can live freely and then the other the opposite can happen yeah well it's an element of survivors guilt as well I think and that's why it feels unjust and you think oh you're mourning the future they didn't have I suppose yeah but I then yeah and I guess for Anya she's a mother is leaving and she felt like she was following her yeah all the way how can she outlive her mother and she just feels like that the ground is

falling away from underneath her which brings in the fact that she didn't grieve her properly which is what you were what you were what you began with and I did think that was a really interesting theme this idea that you know you know you can't really run away from pain. You sort of have to confront it with something I got from that book. I think so, because she is trying to run away and everywhere she runs there she is.

She can't run away from herself. So what would you say? I always think it's interesting looking at that book because it made me think about my own life, if I'm honest. What would you say you had to confront in your life? Like Enya? It wouldn't be a chat for the walk in the park now. Is that my polite Irish answer?

But you had anxiety, didn't you? Oh, oh yeah, we could talk about that's easy. When you were younger? Yeah, no, I, um, when I was probably, when I was 19, I got one panic attack. And it really stopped me in my tracks, I have to say. It was terrifying. And then I was afraid of getting another. And then I lived in fear all the time for a very long time.

And it really, it really, do you know what? If I hadn't had gotten panic attacks, I wouldn't have very, written PS I Love You. If I hadn't have written PSA Love You, I wouldn't have changed my life. And so you'd be grateful for those horrible challenges that you have. Because for a, you know, for a 19 year old, my life kind of stopped for a while and just felt afraid and scared and down and confused and like, what is the point? You know? So that's why, and then writing PSA Love You, I was able to put all those emotions into it, someone who equally felt stuck in their life. But they were very sophisticated themes to be writing about.

at that age as well dealing with do you know what to mean because when I was that age I don't think I could even put myself in the position of someone who'd experienced loss I was feeling a lot though I was feeling a lot and and yeah and at the time people sorry you're just telling a really emotional discussion this is life this is nature all right mate he's telling me be quiet he's looking right at us are they the males I think they are must be. Are they geese? They're what we call the thing. I don't know.

Sorry. They're what we call the thing. The thing. You can't just go away with that Irish, you know. The thing what flies. What are they? I'd imagine it's a big duck. Are they ducks? I think they're geese. I think they're geese. Because geese are a little bit more geesey duck. Look at me, aren't they? And they've got that vibe. Sorry, we're going to have to go. Bye-bye.

Thank you for the song. I suppose what it makes me realize is the fact that you were able, you know, you were just saying just now within the storm, you haven't experienced that yourself. And yet I think you write about it as someone who understands that. And I think similarly with PSI Love You hadn't experienced that, hadn't lost it. But I had experienced the emotions. So I think that's what is important.

As an author, any fictional author is not writing about themselves. We've never experienced the thing we're writing about in fiction. But what we have experienced is the emotions of that experience. Yeah, you understand emotional pain. Yeah, yeah. So even though I haven't experienced that grief of a loved one, of losing a loved one of a husband at the age of 30 because I was 21, I did experience the grief of feeling like I'd lost myself.

I'd lost my place in life. I'd lost my way. I'd lost some friends You know, like there's a lot of other things that are Oh yes, sure please too Raymond He gets so much attention doesn't he Say hello

He's getting ready Come on But I think But that's what writing is It's having empathy and putting yourself in other people's positions And thinking Imagine how would I feel And using the real emotions that you have

In your own well You must be quite a sensitive, empathetic person then, are you? Yeah, I am. I am. I think sometimes more so than others. I think it depends what's going on in my life. Sometimes the more, I'm more sensitive, obviously going through more challenging times. I think if you know your own sadness, you can feel other people's sadness. Are you someone that a friend would come to?

If I was your friend and I was sad, would you be one of the first people I'd ring? Are you quite good for that? Or are you the sort of, come on, pull yourself together, friend? Oh, I don't say pull yourself together, no. But I do, I just listen. I don't think I've got amazing advice. I just, people just want to be listened to, don't they? And as they say things out loud, they start to figure it out themselves.

I think all we ever need is to be heard. But I do take on other people's. You know, if a friend calls me with the problem, I feel their, I feel their sadness. I feel it like it's mine. That's not always a great thing. Yeah, that can be exhausting Yeah, it is exhausting actually And that's what my previous book was about

Yeah Why I like, I find this character interesting Is she's not empathetic Well, but she's a really interesting character Because she really wants to do the right thing A lot of the time You know, and you see these signs of her Like helping in the local community

And not even realising that there is a kind of She's quite altruistic in some ways And yet there's this thing, isn't there? Which, you know, is to do with a lot of unprocessed stuff she's not dealt with, which is kind of holding her back. And there's also one other thing I really love, which is the detail. I think you're so great at character. And I love just little things like she wants to start communicating more regularly with her son.

And, you know, someone of his age points out to her. I think it's one of his cousins or something that points out, oh, you can't send text. There's no point. He won't respond. You're going to have to get involved with voice notes. Oh, yeah. Which really probably should be Snapchat if I was being honest.

No, because I think that was so brilliantly observed because I wonder with that sort of thing is that stuff that you do mine from your own experience because you've obviously got three kids of your own. No, I just text them. No, it's made up. It's all made up stuff. Well, I can tell you the voice notes

it's a real thing. I know. Oh, really? With kids, they won't answer your text. I think so, yeah. Hmm I think texting What do you prefer A voice note or a text

Oh good I like calling Oh oh you're old school Does anyone ever answer you Well Because you know you have to text them in advance To let them know you're calling them Just call them I get so

I really sort of overthink So with text I get so paranoid that there's no tone With text And so what worries me is that if I say to someone absolutely not can't think of anything worse. On text, that seems very aggressive

and rude. That could be a friendship-ending conversation. Whereas if I said, absolutely not, I can't think of anything worse? Yes. That's very different. So I think the lack of tone really disturbs me. So I don't like text. But you know where the tone comes from? Why? The emoji.

So you go, absolutely not, and then you have that tone sticking out with a wink. And then they know. Are you allowed to send the tongue sticking out with a wink during the menopause stage of your life? Totally. That's especially when you're allowed to. That's one of my favourite ones. But I understand what you're saying, yeah.

And I always think, you know, direct communication is always better. Always better. But we are losing that. And the tree, you mentioned earlier about the tree. And I love that because, again, I didn't know anything about this rag tree tradition. I found it really interesting and really lovely actually. Just kind of the idea of honouring someone's life in a way as well. And I found it interesting that the central character,

Enya, she hates the tree at first, and she sees it as sinister and quite ugly. It's ugly. And then she kind of grows to love it. The tree has always had a historical, in every culture. You know, the tree has had deeper meaning. but for her she's closed at the beginning and until she starts opening up she starts feeling more and then the tree becomes not just an ugly tree it becomes as I saw when I saw

a story a tree of stories of hope of love it's an emotional tree and so if people's lives also people tie things on it if they want forgiveness oh like forgiveness for what what have you done I mean to me that's fascinating it's intriguing there's so many stories and she starts to open up and see it in a more human feeling way. I love the idea of tying things on if you want forgiveness. I don't think there's a tree big enough, I mean. Really? What do you think?

Do you seek forgiveness for anything? Oh, I mean, I'm an Irish Catholic. I feel guilty about everything. I was born with guilt. You get it with your birthsars. Are you a practicing Catholic? That's a good question. No, for so long not. I don't think I'd been to Mass for about since I was 10 years of age.

And then I went back last year for about six months. And it was really nice. Yeah. So I haven't been for another while, but I think I'd be a spiritual person. And I think after, you know, researching all of this with my book, I'm definitely, the old Irish pagan is in me. And I am deeply connected to nature and worshipping the light. And all of that, all of that was in us that is still in us, even though we're a modern nation, you know, I still think that we're deeply rooted and connected to the earth. That's my kind of spirituality. I love it. A bit of a hippie on the quiet.

A bit of a, bit of a human. Do you know what I mean? Like that's what we came here for. And we just got distracted by everything else. The reason I ask about the Catholicism I worked with, and what we'll be working again soon with Frank Skinner who's a Catholic and I suppose I'm aware you know as a good friend of mine I'm just aware of just how much what that religion does for him I suppose and there is a part of me that I I get it I get what that represents and it's kind of an anchor yeah and it inspires him to

sort of well I suppose at least he aspires towards doing the right thing even if you don't always do The thing for me is that all religions at their heart are good. You know, we all believe in the same thing. Being a good person, loving other people, being kind, showing... That is like, you know, most religions. All religions. And then the organization got involved and changed it a bit. But I think at the heart, religion is good.

And because all religion did was turn all the real feeling that we have that are natural to us into something organised. Does that make sense? Yeah. So... I think a lot of what you say makes sense. So other people don't own religion.

You, it's yours. It's whatever you want it to be. See, you're a really interesting mix. Weirdo. No, I think you are. I feel you're... You'd be a good person in a crisis. Oh, I'm a good...

Oh, I tell you. Take action in a crisis. Do you? Oh, I'm good. I've got my bag ready. I'm good to go. And you've got three kids, haven't you? I have, yeah.

I have. So there's plenty of crises. Crises. Do you find, you know, with your writing, for example, are you someone who, you know, some people are very structured, aren't they? They're sort of treat it as a job, sit down at the desk at nine,

finish at five. Some people are a bit more, the sort of tortured artist, Chopin, stay up through the night. Which are you? Do you tend to, I mean with kids, presumably you have to treat it. But you have to be quite disciplined about your hours. Yeah, I'm again, I'm a bit of both because before I had them, as I said, I was writing all night. I think that was my natural time.

Something lovely about riding at night because it's just yours. The world is sleeping and it's like, these are my hours. It's peaceful and quiet. But then when I had children, it became nine to five. But it has changed. Life changes with children, and I work around them. So currently, I write from 9 until 1 when they're at school, and then I write again from 9 until midnight, PM.

And do you sometimes, with inspiration, do you see a story in a newspaper and think, wow, that could be the gem of something interesting? Yeah, yeah, I think, and I have a book of ideas. And I used to just write directly into the book of ideas, but now, obviously, we all have our phones. So I'll type something into my notes and then email the notes to me, print them out, or print out the notes directly, and stick them in my book.

And because not always an idea could be a title that I think is nice, or a turn of phrase or a character idea. Do you people watch a lot then? So if you were in this park on your own, would you see someone sitting on a bench and think, I wonder what their story is? I do. but I'm not nosy actually

I don't listen in on other people's conversations or anything but I do observe I do listen in it's okay it's fine I just know that I don't you know yeah what do you think that is maybe that's because you're Catholic

I think it's because I'm in my head and I don't want I'm not interested in other I think your parents may be raised you quite well well they weren't gossips were they not absolutely not I don't remember ever hearing

you know not nice comments about people not ever like they weren't perfect you know what I mean wearing to pass remarkable so I genuinely don't I don't know what person drives I don't know I don't care about their bag or their shoes or their jewelry

I don't care about any of that I don't observe things like that about a person but I like interaction I observe interaction like that that person seems sad or I love watching people who are listening not the person who's talking because they know everyone's looking at them but the person who's listening give things away in their face all the time so I like things like that's true actually I'd never even thought about that but that's very true or the things people

don't say yeah I listen I'm like what do they not say there that's more interesting to me so it's things like that people will pass me all the time and say I was waving at you I was beeping at you I was I don't I'm in my own head and I'm so sorry I'm not being rude I just literally I'm in my own world so I don't notice you probably have to come right up like that's my face for me to see that you're in my space. So it's not rudeness. It's not politeness either. It's not me being raised so well. It's just the way I am. I always am interested in writers because I think that time I've got friends who you know, write for a living and it's very, I'm very conscious of I suppose respecting that

time that it's like they have this kind of quite cloistered space that they create and are you a bit like that? Do you sort of shut yourself, need to shut yourself away, bit when you're... Definitely. Yeah, I do. And I'm even funny with my office. Like, if my daughter goes up to study, like sit at my desk, I'll be like, no, don't move that pen, don't move that, like, which I wouldn't be anywhere else.

It's a little flying your hair. In that house, you know, I'm not like that generally, but it's like I need things to be the way I need things to be in that room. Oh, it's a bit Rochester's wife. Don't go in there. What's the? I'm Jane there. Oh, sorry.

No, who's she? Come on Ray Ray. He doesn't want to. Look at him. He's like, his little nose is like always twitching. Like a little rabbit. Come on Ray Ray, come and see Cecilia. It's such a pretty name, Cecilia. Thank you.

Do you like having that name? I do. I just did an interview the other day where I picked my five songs that kind of mean something to me in my life. And the first song was Cecilia because everyone used to sing it at me when I first met them. And it would be such a nice icebreaker people singing too. me. And Cecilia was also the patron saint of music.

Really? It would be the other thing they tell me. And your sister, Georgina, they choose good names, your parents. Don't they? I think so. I think I'd like your parents. I think they've done a good job. Are you very close to your sister still? Yeah. Yeah. The four

of us are really tight. Like we really what you and your husband and Georgina and Nikki. No, sorry, I meant my mom, dad, me and Julia. There's the four of us. That's nice. But also our husbands. No, they do. They all get along really well.

Like my mom and my husband meet up. My mom and my husband and my dad go out separately. Like they're all, they all get along. That's so nice. Might be a bit unusual to some others, but we actually like each other. I liked reading about how when, and this would have been when your dad's sort of political career was coming to an end, but you got to go to Washington, didn't you? That was amazing.

Was that amazing? That was amazing. Was that when George Bush would have. been in. He was. Who, ever since he sort of stepped down, I think it seems like a really nice bloke. He was very friendly. He was very welcoming.

And he was very funny. He was very funny, which I think we see now. But he was very amusing. And Dad addressed Congress. And I know, incredible. I got to sit in the first lady seat in the, they call it the gallery or I don't know what that area, that's the balcony. And are you in like secret service cars?

Yes. It was in real, like the doors were open and they were there with their weapons and then we got to go to the Oval Office and sat in the Oval Office Oh, got the West Wing! Yeah, and we were, me and my husband were a massive fan of the West Wing

so it feels so silly to say I think we said it to him as well and we loved the West Wing. What did he say? He's very polite and said, yes, it's a great show, I think, you know, he understood, I'm sure everybody says it to him and he was funny,

he was funny, he made it, He made everyone feel very at ease and he was amusing. What an incredible experience to have. Yeah, it really is. But yeah, I think sometimes people can have those experiences. Like when you went to, you know, when you've dipped your toe into Hollywood with your books and stuff. And also through your dad's career. And it could be easy to have those experiences and then come back and you get like the post-holiday blues of like

oh my why isn't my life this glamorous and exciting all the time but you don't they're not the norm though like you see I see them as that like absolute rare special moments you don't expect that to happen every day but that's the definition of being well adjusted just FYI okay but I don't think everyone would agree with you that I'm well adjusted but I think there is some people would be constantly chasing that high do you know what to mean feeling a come down after something like like that. Yeah.

And you don't? You just think, isn't it great? I've got to experience that. Now back to my desk. Yeah, but I do think I try to do it again. I mean, that's why I loved PS, I Love You movie, I wanted to do it again. We did Love Rosie the movie.

I wanted to do it again. I like to have something in my future. I like to always be working towards something. There are projects that take 10 years. Film takes so long, you know. And I always have a couple of things going on. I think I need to have something.

in my future to give me something. It's like that holiday you book well in advance, you know. And the best part is looking ahead. Yeah. Not the best part, but one of the great parts. I need that in my career to look forward to know there's something ahead that we're aiming for. Or that we're working towards that's in production or, you know.

And when you do those, you know, you did raw, those short stories which I really loved. And it's been turned into an Apple series and I really recommend people watch them because I think they're brilliant adaptations aren't they? I love Apple, I think they're. I love everything they make. Not just saying that because they have a show on,

but they're really, the quality of them are incredible. And Nicole Kidman's, and she was executive producer. She's the woman who ate photographs, yeah. And I love the theme, just to give people a flavour, there's one which is the woman who disappeared and it literally is going into meetings and her voice is not heard. It's like she doesn't exist and show me a woman who hasn't

to experience that at some age at some point for some reason in her life. Exactly and that's different, that actually was quite different to the story because my story was about menopause. Yeah. Women feeling like they're disappearing and and yet I wrote it about menopause and then there were a lot of different people who said because everyone feels invisible at some point. People with disabilities. I mean just there were so many people identified. So you write about one thing and And again, it's those emotions, that even though you haven't experienced it, if you felt those feelings, you just feel like, that's the warmth of a book, isn't it? It resonates with you. And you think, oh, somebody else feels something that I have felt and now I don't feel so alone.

He's giving up now. Look at this. Oh, does he need to be carried? Are you done, Raymond? Do you know, Cecilia, I think Raymond's gone on strike. Oh, Raymond. How do you think he'd get on with Buddy, your dog? Oh, I think Buddy would mind him. What? Woody's a nurturer. Are you quite a nurturer?

Um, hmm, yes, I think so. I think I am. What kind of a mum are you? Are you quite hands-on or are you, you'll be alright? Oh. Go outside and play on the bikes. You know, you were talking only about the 80s, you know? Yeah, no, I'm a bit, actually funny, I was talking to somebody about that today.

If there's a headache or I don't feel well today, they're going into school. And if you're not well, they'll send you home. So I'm a bit tough like that. But then I, but I'm a bit tough like that. I am hands-on in that I'm there all the time. So you're... Doing everything with my husband. Your love and boundaries.

What's that? Well, that's a kind of form of parenting, which I quite like, which is love, but setting boundaries for kids as well. Isn't it my job to help them to survive in the world? For them to learn how to survive in the world. And I've never been one of these parents that wants to... If there's something happening with a group of kids, I won't jump in and try to fix the kids and what was happened. You teach

your child how to respond in that situation. I'm like, that's, that's the kind of parent I am. You don't try to fix the problems but prepare them and I don't know what kind of parenting that is but that's what I do. Yeah, because I think there probably is more of a tendency to do that now, isn't there? Yeah.

You know, a kid will maybe come home and say someone said something mean and it's like darling on ring up the school. Whereas I suppose No, I don't do that. No. But then I'm a bit of a... I'm fun and that I'm fun, and I think I'm fun.

But then I won't let them do things like, you can't climb that wall, that's someone's house. No, you can't do that because all the other kids are doing that, because you break that tree. Like, I do believe in rules as well. Yeah. And manners and politeness. Do you know if you've heard about that?

Many people haven't anymore. But you would have been taught manners. Yeah, we were brought up to be polite. Because you were like, you had to be, there was an ambassadorial element to your... I guess so. Because you had to meet people and, you know. And make conversation.

Yeah. Yeah. It sounds hard to do when you're young to make conversation, but I think it's very important. But you probably got quite good at that because you were probably sitting... I think my sister was better than me at that, and I'd jump in with the occasional jokes, and I think that is how we continue to be, honestly.

Is she more sort of outgoing than you then, or when you were kids, was she? No, I wouldn't say outgoing. We're both quite similar, but we just had different approaches. She's also two years older than me. So, like, makes no difference now. But when you're younger, that's a big difference.

So she was the older sister who kind of had to do a lot more talking than I did. So I'd just jump in with the commentary on there, which is the easy role to have, isn't it? Well, Cecilia, I've really loved art. I've liked to walk to. And, you know, I really love your books. Thank you. It's so nice to meet you.

What's so lovely is you're everything that I hoped you would be. And now when I read your books, I will imagine you sitting in your room, which no one else is allowed into, can we just say, when I'm not there. Actually, that's not true. I've set up a little death beside me, and my five-year-old sits beside me and writes her book, so we do it together.

There's two writers in the room. I love that. She's got 25 books. Do you think she'll be a writer? I don't know. She can be whatever. She wants to be. As long as she goes to school.

And what do you think of Raymond? enjoyed meeting Raymond? I have. Raymond's a cutie. He's so calm. I think that's the word I give Raymond. And I really loved your book and I urge everyone to read it because it's a brilliant book. I'll tell you what I'm glad about. It's that it was sunny today though. I know. I did have my wellies in the car though. Yeah. So he always be prepared for a crisis. Are you quite like that though? Are you quite organised and sort of make sure I bring the wellies? I over prepare, yeah.

I think that's part of writing. I mean, any writer I speak to is we think ahead, looking ahead. What if, what if? Like making things up, not psychic obviously, but yeah, and you're preparing for that. You zip-block bags with snacks in it for the journey. When the kids were younger, yes. Now we can stop at shops. So I'm getting this impression of you is quite organised, a good listener, quite kind, empathetic, sensitive.

I think I'm going to have to move to Ireland and make you, my friend. We can be friends and we can walk our doggies together. Do you think Ray would get, I hope Ray and Buddy would get on, what do you think? I really think so. Let's give it a go. Cecilia, I've loved having you on. Will you say goodbye to Ray? Bye-bye.

and shake your hand. You're a gorgeous doggy. Bye-bye, Cecilia. Is that his voice? So funny, everyone has a voice for their dog. What's yours? Oh, why did I bring it up? Come on.

It depends on the mood and the situation. Let's just do it. You're not leaving here without it. I made up a song for him. That whenever we put him outside, he sits looking in the door. Like, you know, he just, like this. So I made up a song,

and it's always, on the outside, looking. in. I mean, this song, just of his perspective. Always on the outside, looking in. Is that his voice? Yeah, that's mine. You're not going to leave without this. Hello, buddy. How are you?

Grand, how are you? I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.