Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Charlotte Church (Part One)

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

This week Emily and Ray travel to Wales for a beautiful beach walk with the wonderful Charlotte Church, joined by her two dogs Holly the Cavapoo and Selma the Spoodle.They met on Barry Island Beach, which might look familiar thanks to Gavin and Stacey, and Emily chats to Charlotte about her extraordinary life. From her childhood in Wales, to singing Pie Jesu on This Morning at just 11, becoming Voice of an Angel, and going on to sell more than ten million records, Charlotte reflects on the incredible highs of those early years and the surreal moments that came with worldwide fame.Charlotte also talks about her recent appearance on Celebrity Traitors, where she was reunited with Jonathan Ross, who played a key role in her early career after showcasing her talent on his Big Big Talent Show.Charlotte also talks about turning her attention to a very different kind of project in recent years, transforming Laura Ashley’s former home in Wales into The Dreaming, a magical wellbeing retreat offering nature immersion, meditation, sound healing, yoga and even night-time forest bathing. You can explore retreat packages and find out more at https://thedreaming.co.uk.It’s a warm and joyful conversation with someone who became globally famous as a child, yet has somehow remained grounded, funny and wonderfully down to earth. Emily and Ray absolutely loved spending time with her.Follow Emily:Instagram XWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And I was like, it is Nicco, it is Claire, it is Tamika and it is Celia. And I was absolutely sure. This week on walking the dog Ray and I headed to Wales to take a stroll with the wonderful Charlotte Church and her two dogs Holly the Cabapoo and Selma the Spoodle. We met up with Charlotte on the beautiful Barry Island Beach which looked fabulously familiar because it is of course where Gavin and Stacey was filmed. Charlotte has been a huge star since the age of 11, so it was really heartening to see how people in her local community in Wales just accept her as one of their own. She wasn't once hassled or asked for selfies, but that also has a lot to do with Charlotte because she's someone who clearly has never been remotely interested in fame.

Charlotte and I had such a lovely chat about her fascinating life, from her childhood in Wales, to the life-changing moment when as an 11-year-old she phoned this morning one day, and sung P.A. Yezu over the phone to the huge part Jonathan Ross played in her career when she showcased her voice on his big, big talent show. And by the way, Jonathan and Charlotte were of course reunited recently for celebrity traitors, but because she adores him, she's totally forgiven him for murdering her. Charlotte was only 12 years old when she topped the classical charts with her album Voice of an Angel, and she went on to sell over 10 million records in her career, along with performing for some pretty major figures including Nelson Mandela and Pope John Paul II. But in recent years, she's devoted her life to a very different kind of project.

She bought Laura Ashley's magical old house in Wales and has turned it into a truly unique well-being retreat called The Dreaming, where people can step away from modern life and immerse themselves in nature, sound healing, meditation, yoga, and I love the sound of this, nighttime forest bathing. It's had incredible reviews and offers all sorts of retreat packages so you can find out all about it at thedreaming.co.uk. Ray and I loved Charlotte. She's an exceptionally funny, warm-hearted, joyful person to spend time with and she's also managed to navigate childhood fame really impressively and emerged as a very grounded person with a lot of integrity. I honestly think you'll love my chat with Charlotte.

So I'll stop talking now, so you can listen to the wonderful woman herself. Here's Charlotte and Holly and Selma and Ray-Way. Come on, Charlotte. Come on, ladies. Oh, are you letting yours off? Yeah. Or maybe I'll do the same so his soul can sing openly. I love it when their soul sings openly, don't you?

Oh, totally. And they go for a big run. Come on, baby. Come on, bobbies. But she's really aggressive when she's on. the leads but as soon as she's off she's fine is she yeah but it's like she feels restrained I'm like that yeah totally soon not put me on a lead no one put Charlotte in the corner don't you fight the shit out of you she's just fighting

back against the Patriotty exactly quite oh Charlotte can I just say this is breathtakingly beautiful yeah it's really gorgeous isn't it do you want to just tell everyone where we are so So we are at Jackson's Bay. Oh God, the dog's pooing. Hang on. What a romantic in production. Oh, she's got a good Peter Crouch on her.

A Peter Crouch. Hang on, hang a banger. So tell us again, we got interrupted by the dogs doing what they do. Yes. We are in Jackson's Bay on the Barry Coast Line. This is one of many beaches. many beaches along this coastline um oh no this no jackson's bay's the next one what's this one called this one's got an actual name i suppose it's just the barry beach and am i right in thinking

i associate this with gavin and stacey yeah so they did loads of gavin and stacy film in around these parts yeah but there's loads of the swimmers here every morning people go in for cold water dips there's a beautiful sauna and just a little bit along the coast and little i love those coloured beach huts. Yeah, they're really sweet. And then these pavilions, we used to do silent discos here, every full moon, full moon silent discos. This would be amazing, a silent disco here. Yeah, on the pavilion. So yeah, it's gorgeous. Are you quite naturally drawn to the water, do you think, the sea? I'm very much drawn to water. I'm very much drawn to all nature. I love the mountains, I love the rivers, I love the forests, I

of the coastlines so i i try and change it up and experience it all but yeah i felt as soon as i come set foot on the beach yeah my heart feels happy do you know what i mean just those elements of the sand and the sea and it just feels and ray you'll soon find out charlotte yes this is heaven or nothing oh bless are you are you in a city london yeah we live in london so But I'm always trying to find a sandy beach for him. Yes. And you know what? I'm not ruling out driving all this way again to Wales.

Ray? Are you going to show Charlotte how you run? Come on, let's see. Let's see you. Come on, go. Come on, go on. Come on. Come on.

Come on. Yay. Hey, show us how you run. Oh, so cute. Look at that. Yes. Wow. That is such a regal.

Right. Pounce. Bounce. He goes wild Can you introduce us to your dogs So this is Selma song And this is Holly Buddy And

We used to have a big one But we lost them a couple of years ago Nilsson Schmelson So they're all named after musicians and albums So Selma's named after a Bjork album How cool

Yeah But Selma I think is the most cosmic dog in the world she's proper like universe surfer you know there's something about animals in general I think but yeah particularly her she's just got she's just got the universe in her eyes she's very knowing I feel like she's my familiar yes my darling is she fought cabapoo she's a spoodle she's a spoodle she's a a spring of Spaniel Poodle Cross. What a beautiful mix. Yeah and she's a cavapoo. Holly's a cavapoo but Sam's about 11 now. Holly's about six. She's about the same age as my

my littlest daughter. Ray, you like this beach? Oh look. Having a good old rub. Yeah. Get sand in your eyes, silly pup. So did you feel? when Gavin and Stacey started, was there a part of you that was a bit like when people started getting into a band you've been into for 20 years? You're like, look, I've been coming to this Barry cafe for bloody decades.

Yeah. I think most people, most people in Barry are pretty chill. Yeah. And love it. And is this your sort of local area? Because I know, do you live sort of near, Yeah, and I've lived all over the, all over Cardiff, but it's lovely just to get out to the coast.

And, you know, even when I was a kid, this is, you know, this would be a big day out. Coming down, Barry, we're going down, Barry Beach? Yeah, it was a big day out. Is it? Yeah. And in the summer, you know, you can imagine this is, it's an enormous stretch of sand and this is jam-packed. packed and also it's really super multicultural I think that there's something about beaches where there's just so many different types of people doing so many

different things you know different makeups of family and yeah it's gorgeous you'll have a boxing class happening over there and yoga over this way and a family having a little barbecue and I love it there's something Sitting on this beach now, Charlotte, I think there's something very timeless about watching people on the beach. When I see those people now with those dogs, I think, I can imagine people 150 years ago. Yeah. We're in slightly different clothes, maybe a bit more formal, but maybe walking here. Yes.

I see what you mean. It's like a portal in time where you can, the imagination can really sort of paint pictures. That's exactly. You put it better than I ever, because you're very articulate and when you're talking about that. Oh, you too. Oh, they're having a little play fight. So sweet. Do you know, I think she's almost ill with excitement.

Yeah, she is having a ball. Ray, look at me. Come on, Ray, show a Charlotte. How you run? Come on, Ray. Charlotte Church. Are you openly laughing at my dog? No, not at all.

Ray is fabulous. Raymond, come on, Ray. such an amazing coat. It's like a, it's like a timet advert. Love that dog. Listen to my yappy little fuckers. Oh, I love them. They're enjoying life. Holly. That's Holly saying I'm so happy.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I love that. She said, let's play. Come on doggies. It's really funny. So if she does start on a dog, Holly, which is really, really rare unless she's on the lead. but like she'll she'll go she's the mouthy one and then Selma comes as like back up and so Semmel's sort of like silently plodding like a bouncer just like what's happening here?

I love it. She starts all the trouble. She starts all the trouble. She's the mouthy one. Which one are you of those two? I think I'm I think I'm a bit of both. Are you? Yeah.

I think you can take care of yourself though. I think I can take care of myself too. I'm a mess. Oh, hello, darling. You're so sweet. Hey, bye, my love. Ray likes being with a pack. So we're going to talk a bit about what's brought you here today and where you are now.

And I love where you are now in your life. But I just want to give people a brief sense of your origin story. I mean, as if they don't have one. Sure. But just to remind them. Yeah. So you grew up in, is it Landau? Landa?

Well, I grew up in Canton. Canton. So I'm a Canton girl and then... Is that Cardiff, Shaw? Yeah, Canton, Cardiff. And then I got a scholarship to Llandath Cathedral School. Oh, you said it right, I've got to try again. My Welsh relatives would never forgive me.

My mother would be... Klanda. Klanda. There you go, you've got it. I'm going to practice that. And you grew up with your mom, who was a student, single parent obviously at that time because your dad wasn't on the scene your biological dad we should say my biological dad wasn't on the scene but my mum met my

dad James when I was three so he's been my dad my whole life you know and I can't I don't really have any memories of time of the time before three so and you've never really had any desire to meet your biological dad have you well he's passed now he passed in COVID but it's complicated it's complicated and I did a podcast where my mum spoke

about her experiences and stuff so yeah it was it was difficult we had a rocky start I had a rocky start absolutely we lived in a women's hostel for like the first six weeks of my life oh yeah

that. Ray! Come on, Ray! Ray! Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray! Come on, Ray! Yay! Come on to shore!

People actually stop and say, what is that weird? Come on! Come on, Ray! Come on, Ray! Come on, Ray, follow us. So you also spent a lot of time because your mom was young, was she like 19, 20 or something when she had you.

Yeah, she was 20 when she had me. And so you were obviously one of those kids who spent a lot of time with grandparents. Yes. And I always love kids like that. Yeah. Because I think they're sort of oddly articulate and sophisticated. Because they're hanging up with older people a lot of the time.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, but also we had like an enormous extended family. So I was also with my great Auntie Francis Lodes, who was my Nana's sister, and all the cousins, like, you know, third, fourth, fifth cousins. And yeah, we were, we were all pretty close. So like the, I do feel a little bit like I didn't grow up in that sort of atomized 2.14. children sort of way I did grow up in a way in the village you know we were we were all very interconnected and yeah I do like we'd have sleepovers around each

other's houses all the time do you think that made you quite well adjusted in some ways and and well prepared for what was to come because you always struck me as quite a self-possessed kid yeah Well, I think that in part when you grow up, you know, amongst like a bigger, a bigger family like that, a bigger tribe, then you're left to your own devices a bit more and the kids sort of like, like, look after each other. and so yeah I think that that was that was definitely helpful as my career kicked off and such when I was 12 and stuff got intense and pressurized and amazing and exciting but you know pretty discombobulating but I had I was so grounded I was so rooted in in my tribe in my crew in my pack um And, you know, very, you know, grew up. People openly laugh at him, Charlotte. It's so embarrassing.

It's like dating a weird man. Actually, we would walk out the street and let's go, I mean, he is hilarious. Did you have, during this time, was it an animal-based household you lived in? Because you had a couple of dogs, I feel, didn't you, at some point? We had a border collie called Sam. that was too big for the house so they gave him to a farm which I was devastated about and then they we had a Yorkshire Terrier I can't remember what it was called

Bonnie I think called Bonnie and they sold her which I was absolutely also got it about yeah we were very good great good with pets I did I had had a gerbil at a gerbil at some point who my dad wouldn't have in the house so we had it in the shed and then one time I walked out to find the gerbil skull on the patio because the cat had eaten the gerbil oh yeah it was and then we had a cat called Sophie but I was horrifically allergic to cats so yeah we always had we always had animals but I'm not sure we should have yes I'm not sure we should have been allowed I'm not sure we should have had animals so but my mum's dog mad now she's got she's got

or she did have a dark hotel because I watched your brilliant show which by the way is still on I watched it through Amazon Prime you can watch Discovery Class through Amazon Prime Charlotte's dream build. Yes. I've binged both seasons. Did you? It's such a brilliant show. Oh, bless you.

And you come out of it, we're going to talk about this, the most calm person, with all this madness going on around you. But your mum, I was rewinding every time she was on. She's such a character, that's her. She is a one-off. I loved her.

Thank God. But she loves dogs, doesn't she? Yeah, she's got seven. She's got seven dogs. seven dogs, loads of Pomeranians, they're so aggy. They're so agi, they're so spoiled. It's outrageous the way she treats them dogs. She loves them.

Because I think when people see Ray, they think he might have that sort of energy. Yes. But he's not, he's more sort of son of the forest. Yeah, he's very sweet. I can feel his energy and he's like, absolutely, really, really sweet. sweet little being. I trust your feeling of energy. Do you have a good reading of him? Oh, without a shadow of doubt. Oh, I love that makes me so happy, Charlotte. I feel like you've been blessed. Oh, right? Charlotte likes me. Oh, you're such a cutie pie. I think he knew we were saying

a nice thing then, do you? Yes. Hello, ladies. I know, hello. Yes, we love you too. Isn't it awful? When mommy says nice things about other dogs, it's disgusting, isn't it? Come on dogs. So we'll walk over to these lovely rocks, this great rock formation over here. And so, obviously, the thing that people often ask you is, when did you know you had this voice? Well, I wonder if actually it's tricky for you to put a, to actually sort of narrow that, because as a kid you sort of don't question it. I presume you could just always sing. Yes, I mean, but also like everybody in my family sings.

Yeah. So, but they're all like, I don't know what I'm saying, but they're, but they have been in the past. Cabaret singers and my cousin Paul was an Elvis impersonator. Obsess my fault. Yes. And so, um, it was a very normal, natural thing for all the kids to get up and sing. at family parties and have a bit of a party piece. But I was more into dancing at the beginning. So I did like jazz, ballet, tap.

Yeah, I absolutely loved dancing. And then as I got a bit older, moved into singing, had my party pieces, would do competitions. And then my auntie said to my mum at some point, you should put her into singing lessons, so she doesn't hurt herself. because my auntie had nodules when she was quite young. Right.

And yeah, so my mother put me into singing lessons and I learnt to sing in a totally different way because I was like a big bell to sing it before that, sing all the show tunes, Les Mies and Annie and yeah. And then I just learned something entirely different and then this other voice sort of came out and came through. I wonder if that must feel, especially as a young woman, if there's something that feels very powerful about that,

that you get a sense of your own power? Having a voice like that. Yeah, I think that I was, I was quite a quiet child. And so quite dreamy off in my own world, probably incredibly ADHD. We're all undiagnosed here. Yes. And, but, you know, it was, it was a great friend, my voice and singing. It was a great balm for me and has been and continues to be, and just continues to deepen and be even more if that's possible. But yeah, I felt it's difficult to be lonely when you're singing.

a lot. I love that. It's like your constant companion, your voice, isn't it? It's out of your life. I love that. Come on dogs. So we're going to walk up this bit. Yeah, we'll walk up to the headlands. The headlands. Come on, doggies. We're going to the headlands. I'll have to get Ray. Ray, we're going to leave the sand briefly. So your first, the first time, everyone knows how you were discovered. But just to recap, it was a little. on this morning there was a phone in you called yourself Charlotte which I love I did they were like talented children bring in and you're like you literally wrong in

yourself I did and yeah but I suppose my break really came on Jonathan Ross's big big talent show and that was my my auntie got onto it actually I've got a weird feeling because we've already established I've told you my best friend Jane is married to Jonathan and I used to go down to the big big talent show pretty much every week yes I've got this weird feeling that I was there no way wow I can't explain it but there's something really familiar about it yeah yeah because I was there so often I never I'm sure I was there that night yeah I so hope I was yeah but it's incredible watching that clip just You say, can I ask the orchestra for a sea please?

Well, he's like, well, you apparently sing as well. Do you want to give us a little blast? Can I ask the orchestra for a sea, please? Yeah. And Jonathan says in very Jonathan way, well, you can try, but I don't know if they'll be able to. Yes. We love him.

And that was life-changing for you that moment, wasn't it, on Jonathan's show? Yeah, so lots, things just started happening from their very, happening from there very quickly. It was a real whirlwind, you know. And you're having a good scratch. You're having a good scratch, sweetie. Come on, Ray, Ray. And after that, it feels like it snowballed.

But one thing that I get the sense of is that it was kind of hard for your parents in some ways, because they're suddenly in this person. position where your life has changed, you've got this extraordinary gift, there's managers and agents, the people are cheering. Oh look, Sharma, I love those dogs. So cute. So cute. It's okay. Sweet hearts. Little dogs with little wheels to help them more. Little sausage dogs on wheels. Yeah, so sweet. But yeah, I get the sense that must have been tough for them because your family you would describe it as working class growing up yes absolutely and suddenly

being thrust into this world where there's big money involved and these big decisions that have to be made and that must have been daunting for all of you really yeah it was mental we were like completely green around in the years um but they you know they managed beautifully considering because it was absolutely mental Holly! She went into the toilet. She went in the man's toilet. Ray, where's Charlotte? Hi, there she is. Hi babe. Oh bless you, bless you Ray Ray. How is she is? Hi. And suddenly your life changes your

doing everything from singing at the Vatican to singing for President Clinton but I still get the sense, shallot, that you managed to maintain this sort of normalcy Yeah, I think that in the absolute centre and the core of my being have always been exactly the same as we all are, you know, I think that you know there is that sort of deep soulful part of you

that yeah is ever the same that is that little spark of life and whilst we all evolve and change enormously if we are willing to but you say I think that the staying who you are saying who you are I don't know if everyone manages it if I'm honest I think it's hard I think we've talked about Jonathan Ross who we both love I think he's managed it yes he is you know he's successful in all these things but he's still so the essence of the person is still there yes and I've seen people where that has got lost I'm honest I think it's really important that we I think for me I feel very privileged that I've been able to walk in many worlds right and I think it's really important because it gives

you context and it gives you empathy and compassion and understanding and yeah and perspective I suppose perspective on life and for me it also means that like I I yeah was able to sort of stay in a place where I'm not fearful that actually I accept people as who they are and I'm curious about people from all walks of life. I think we're all, we all have our gifts and we all have a unique piece of the puzzle that we're offering to existence with our, and we've all got our, we've all got work to do here, you know, and whether you're lowly born or highborn, it doesn't really matter.

on a soul level and so yeah I'm I'm really so I suppose when you say that that makes me realise you maybe what kept you the person you are was that you were never preoccupied with status maybe that's when think that can get dangerous that world for you yeah but also like I just see through it could you yeah like immediately and I stayed out of it yeah that's why I've stayed in Wales you know it was just like so much of it was so fatuous and fake and it's just not real not authentic like I like a bit of I like a bit of realness a bit of grit a bit of honesty like a bit of yeah just just people being real yeah about what's going on and how they feel and

and so much that I experienced, you know, lots when I was in America, or, you know, if I was up in London, working or maybe partying sometimes, it was just like, oh, this is, this is not my vibe. This is not my vibe. Really? Yeah, just because there's just so much posturing. Yeah. And I suppose there was that, oh, I'll talk to you because you're famous and in the club. Exactly. It was just like, you're a celebrity, I'm a celebrity, left.

friends and I was like, no, thank you. No, thank you very much. I've got a lovely group of friends back home. I'm absolutely fine and you're a fucking nutter. So no thanks. I'm all good. Lovely to meet you though. I'm dying to know. Once it's not recording, I'm going to demand to know who the fucking nutters were. But there were some people who were, like you told once a story about Tom Cruise being nice to you and I loved that story. Yeah. And I think, listen, I think he's very good at that, isn't it? He understands celebrity better than anyone in some ways. But that was reassuring to me.

He was polite in the moment. Yeah. You know? Oh, we met some amazing people. And yeah, but also I just think it really, it just really doesn't bother me where I am or who I'm meeting. People are people and some of the most interesting people that I've wanted to spend the most time with have been,

you know, people that other people would write off, you know, and absolutely swap for Tom Cruise in a heartbeat. But that's been my experience, it's just the. But I think in a strange way, the fact that you were sort of slightly unmoved by that, and yes, you're a teenager and you're excited when you're presenting an award to M&M or whatever. Yes.

You're still, there was never a sense of you being stage schooly or trained or do you know what I mean the voice was trained but there was never a sense of you being on I guess yeah yeah I didn't have any interview training does you know isn't that mad I didn't know I had one session I had one session and I again just thought well that's silly well yeah okay fine like I get it like I I can turn the conversation to what I want to talk about and I don't have to talk about anything I'm not comfortable with but why was I lie? And also I'm not just a machine to sell. I wonder though, looking back

I think there probably wasn't a blueprint. You know, it's a bit like when you look at how boy bands when they talk now about how they were just left to it there was no sort of... Pastoral care. Yeah, that's the world. Eldership, yeah. And I suspect you didn't really get the level of care

to which you would get now a child in that position? Well, my parents were with me. But aside from your parents, just the sort of the professionals. Yeah. There probably wasn't that structure in place. No, not really. And also, I think that, you know, I mean, you're talking about when you get to, you know, the higher echelons of any industry, you're talking about hardcore capitalism.

And that hardcore capitalist machine is inhumane, to say the least. you're a product the people within it often are you know very can you know what's the word I'm looking for can I think well no that they're sort of they're completely bought in to the system yes you know and they and they're very they they're so assimilated they're so conforming to that way of being like Stockholm syndrome almost yeah that they just can't see outside of it and so yeah I mean, the one thing I wish I did have was a bit more eldership in my artistry and, you know, a bit more, yeah, somebody sort of guiding the way for me to be able to, you know, really develop my artistry, really understand that I was creative and artistic in my own right, that I didn't have to, you know what I mean, because it took me a long time to figure that out by myself. And I really had to rehabilitate my little creative self to start to believe that and trust it. Yeah.

Because I just thought that I was a commodity, you know. And so it's taken me a while. And actually it was through the dreaming, really, through doing something totally different. But very creative, but very, well, you know what? I was going to say, I want to get on to that, but I just wanted to say, it's one thing that really shocked me, Charlotte, because I don't think I'd quite realise that. Hello, lovely collie. Hello, sheepdog.

Was that you were 16 and you left home. Yeah. Yeah. And was that just because you'd suddenly thought, I mean, I can see that you were thinking, well, this is frustrating, I want my freedom. And you were dating someone your parents didn't approve of and all that sort of stuff.

So you just moved out, didn't you? Yes, I did. But, you know, I think. that you're looking back my life was incredibly controlled and so I see that I was just like Jones in for my autonomy and I just want to have a fag go to the pub I was going to get it by hook or by crook you know be my own person make my own mistakes and I was just tired of I was tired of working why you I've been working solidly for four years by that point like uh hiya and you must have been actually

because you must have had a sense of I mean it's it was a lot your schedule must have been it's a lot for an adult I was all over the world yeah I was in Brazil and Singapore Japan America like yeah it was a lot of work and I just wanted to be at home I just wanted to be I just wanted to be with my kin and I wanted to be with my friends and I wanted to go, you know, to under 18s nights and be a bit naughty. I'm looking back, I know you had a period and you've talked very openly about this and I know your mum, you know, she's been honest, she's had mental health issues and back then you wouldn't have been diagnosed in the same way. it's you know but I wonder do you see that period in a way as a sort of necessary separation of continents that actually you needed to do that at that time for you yeah I mean I don't think there's any point in looking back on your life with regrets I mean there's there's lessons aren't

there there's always lessons and I do believe in divine timing and things being as they needed to be but it was violent you know it was a violent way to uncouple from one's parents if you will because it is it's a very tender thing but the way the way in which the way in which adolescence I think as a general thing because we are we're all uninitiated essentially like if we were back in the tribal culture if we were if we if we could our indigenous ways of being like through adolescence there would be a big initiation which helps us move from girl to woman or boy to man and

everything else in between and without that we sort of stay suspended yeah in this immaturity and so I mean life tends to initiate us in ways but essentially what then tends to happen I think is that you know parents don't really

understand how to let go how to trust their youngens how to learn from their youngans how to give power how to give them autonomy and agency and so then therefore that youngan will rebel you know

that young and will go absolutely not like i mean in retrospect it actually your rebellion was not as bad as it could have been you know when you look at how fame at a young age can and has affected so many other people it was fairly mild your rebellion yeah if we're honest charl totally i was really good you were just a normal teenager uh yeah um a normal teenager yeah exactly you didn't it wasn't dark you know what you didn't go down some really dark no I wasn't doing drugs I wasn't like you know I drank a lot and we partied a lot but we you know it was actually quite innocent often we were we were home by 12 o'clock we got

we'd go for a dance um do you think that I know you had hideous treatment by the press and obviously they settled with you, didn't they? Well, News of the World did. After the Leveson inquiry, because your phone had been hacked. And I wonder if, in some ways, I think looking at the way you were treated, it sort of sums up the problem that the patriarchy has with women in general, which is that we've decided what you are. You are a virgin, you are pure.

Yes. You are sacred. And then as soon as you started saying, I know there's different facets to me, I'm growing up now, I have agency, I have sexual power, I'm emerging, I'm blossoming. No, no, we've decided what you are. Yeah.

So you will be punished. Yeah, it's very much like the way that I see it is that it's like a fairy tale narrative. And so I feel like you're sort of pushed into archetypal fairy tale narratives. So, you know, my mum was like the evil mother and I was the fallen angel and then, you know, my boyfriend was, you know, from the wrong side of town and the bad boy and all of this sort of stuff. So it, the narratives, oh, she's shitting again. Can I just say Charlotte Church is not talking about me?

I really hope you love part one of this week's walking the dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday. so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.