Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Cherry Healey (Part One)

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

This week on Walking The Dog - we’re joined by TV presenter and queen of documentaries, Cherry Healey! Raymond is recovering from feeling a bit under the weather this week, so we spoke to Cherry from home… which meant we got to meet her spectacular Maine Coon, who is fabulously named House Party. Cherry grew up with dogs, but in her adult life she’s been a cat owner. She tells us the heartbreaking story of losing her beloved cat Party Time (yes, another fabulous name) and her childhood dog Mouflon, who she describes as a 'layered being'...We also find out how Cherry thrived at boarding school, how she feels about being popular and whether being beautiful can be a curse. The ninth series of Inside The Factory will be out on BBC One in early 2025!You can buy your copy of Cherry’s brilliant book Letters To My Fanny hereFollow @cherryhealey on Instagram Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And so I got a cat and I called him party time. If the cat disappears, I really wanted my incredibly posh mom to walk down the street with the flashlight, shouting party time. Which side note did happen. It was very funny. Worth every minute. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I caught up with TV presenter and documentary queen, Cherry Healy. We'd planned to meet up in Cherry's local park, but poor old Ray was recovering from a bit of a stomach bug. So I decided to keep him wrapped up indoors in his favourite elf blanket while we chatted to Cherry over Zoom at her home in Ealing,

who was joined, by the way, by her fabulously fluffy Maine Coon cat called, Wait for it, House Party. Cherry first got her break in TV doing work experience at the BBC where rather brilliantly one of her jobs was sending out Blue Peter badges and she went on to front some really fascinating documentaries about everything from childbirth to dating and money issues. Since then, she's become a regular fixture on TV, appearing on shows like Celebrity Master Chef and SAS Who Dare's Wins.

But she's probably best known for her role as co-presenter on the hugely successful BBC show inside the factory, which I'm absolutely addicted to. And the good news is it's back for its ninth series at the start of the year, where she'll be joined by a brand new host, Paddy McGuinness. I have to say, I love to tell. chatting to Cherry. She's got this incredibly engaging magnetic personality and she's so easy to talk to.

So I think you're going to really love her. I'm going to stop talking now and hand over to the woman herself. Here's Cherry and house party and Ray Ray. Cherry, I am so thrilled to have you on walking the dog. I'm a little gutted because we had planned to me up this morning, haven't we? In your manner in Ealing. and my dog pulled a bit of a sickie on me this week and I was a bit frantic and you've been so lovely and understanding about it so we're doing it remotely but I'm thrilled to see you have a cat lurking in the background

she's not really a cat she's a Labrador can you see her big she is I'm going to describe to you listeners what Cherry Healy is holding up I don't know where to begin I'm going to it's the largest fluffiest cat I have to get a picture of you

with this care. I'm going to insist on this office. Look how big she is. What, what she? She's a main coon and I really wanted a dog. I've grown up with dogs. I wanted a dog. I adore dogs. Every time I see a dog, I can't not say a dog dog, which my kids always take the Mick out of me for, obviously, because it's stupid. I love dogs. But I travel for work and my kids are starting to get grown up and I just, they, having a dog is like having a newborn that never grows up and I just needed the freedom. So very painfully I made the decision to not get a dog. But the kind of compromise was a cat and there's a special breed of cat called a Maine Coon and I'm so sorry that she's not a rescue and I will rectify that one day and I will have

lots and lots of rescue cats, hundreds of rescue cats. But she is a Maine Coon and they are a very, very large breed of cat and they are also incredibly tactile and incredibly social. but as you can see, she lies on me like a baby. She meets me at the door when I get in from work. She holds my face so that I'm talking to her. She's with me all the time. She's basically just a giant, enormous baby dog cat thing. So she's not like a cat.

Do you know how some cats don't want to hang out with you? I'm actually just still laughing at her because she's extraordinary. So she's got these enormous ears and a very snouty nose like a fox. So she looks, she doesn't look like a normal cat. And she's twice the size of Raymond. I mean, she's probably three times the size of Raymond. So she's as close to a dog that I can get without having to actually have a dog and walk it twice a day. Can I just say how much I love Raymond and how beautiful Raymond is?

And is it all right to say that he looks like a very majestic Ewok from Star Wars? He is. He is. He is definitely part EWalk. He really is. Is he okay? today because I know he's not feeling very well. He's so much better and you were so sweet about this earlier because I felt a bit embarrassed, Sherry.

I was so upset. It was honestly, I was so worried about him because it was one of those of mad dashes to the vet where you're like, oh my God, is he going to be okay? They're talking about IV drips. But you were really sweet earlier when we were just, you know, chatting before we started recording and I apologised for being a bit soppy

and over the top about my dog. And you immediately said, don't do that. And I love that. Don't ever apologise. Don't ever apologise. It's really distressing. Because I know people will be listening and immediately want an update. And I did you.

Like, where are we at, Raymond Healthwise? He is much better now. He is much better. And he just had, I'm still, I'm going to take him back to the vet, you know, to check. It's all right. But he was just, yeah, he hadn't, he wasn't eating for like a couple of days. And he was like really weak and stuff. But they think he's much better now.

which is good. Do they know what it was? I don't know. I think it can be, I think if dogs get really severe like gastroenteritis, it can be really, especially when they're older, it can be quite dangerous. So yeah, I think, oh, God, he's just had a little burp. But I found myself yesterday and I thought, oh, I've become that woman. The only thing he would eat was sort of deluxe food.

So I found myself driving across London to the one shop in Chelsea. I don't live anywhere near Chelsea that stocks. James Middleton's dog food because that was all Raymond would eat. Oh my gosh. But that's what happens. I mean, I grew up with a West Thailand Ontario called Muflo, which is French for Wild Sheep. And my mum just doted on Mufloon. Muflon was such a character. Like, just not necessarily all nice,

a layered being, let me say. But I had a thing called a phantom pregnancy, which, so she thought she was pregnant every so often. And she would just, that would manifest by her staring at the wall and not eating food. And it was almost like a morning because she'd obviously been spayed and then the vet said,

well, sometimes it's a psychological issue. This dog was layered. This dog, she wouldn't, like, chase sticks or balls. She just, it was just a funny character. She hated people in hats. That was her big thing. She'd fucking hated people in hats.

So she was quite weird, but my mum, when she was going through her phantom pregnancies, would buy, like, prime cuts of meat from our local butcher and kind of, cook it and then fan it cold and feed it. And this is what we do for our pets. When they're ill, like you were saying earlier, I'm so sorry, feel so silly.

I'm going to admit something awful. And this is not going to make me people's favourite, but this is the truth. When I was at boarding school, girls used to come. I wasn't really connected to my dogs growing up because they were my dad, Spaniards or like my moms. And they weren't mine.

So I didn't understand that close connection. Girls used to come back from an exeat, like a weekend at home. And they'd be like, crying at night because their dog had died. And I'd be like, oh, God, how awful for them. Sad. Next night, I'd be like, oh, it's really sad their dogs died.

Third night, I'd be like, oh, come on, Susan, pull your pants up. Okay, I'm not joking. That's how I felt. I felt a bit like, for God's sake, it's a bloody dog. And then, karma sometimes takes a while to hit you. When I got divorced, I thought, I've always wanted to pet. and my ex-husband, who's the nicest man in the whole world, he never wanted a pet.

But I was like, oh, I can get my own pet now. And so I got a cat and I called him party time because I've always wanted to call a child party time or a cat party. So I called him party time because I thought, it'd be so funny for my incredibly posh mom, if the cat disappears, I really wanted my incredibly posh mom to walk down the street with the flashlight, shouting party time. Which side note did happen.

It was very funny. worth every minute. Wearing Hunter Wellies, I hope. Absolutely. In her like tweed outfit and her like really perfect bob, shouting party time, which happened in West London. It was amazing. So party time was a cat of my dreams.

Amazing cat, not a main coon. Just like a good old regular cat, beautiful, most exquisite personality. Would like again, wait for me at the door. If I was tapping on my laptop, he would sit next to me. I've got photos of him like tapping away at his pretend laptop. hang out. And again, you're newly divorced. Everything's a bit nerve-wracking. He brought such comfort, joy, love, endless giggles and coziness to the house. But he was such a companion to me. And it's weird sleeping in the bed on your own when you, you know, you're used to being with someone. He was with me

all the time, all the time. He was just the best cat. And then one day, about two and a half years after getting him, maybe three, he just stopped eating. You know, like, and I thought, am I making it up? I thought, he's walking funny. And I called my ex-husband who kind of knew the cat, obviously growing up. And I was like, is he walking funny? And he went, yeah, he's walking really funny. And obviously, you haven't, but he's like sideways.

And he used to sit strangely with his paws, really, really, really tucked under him. And then he stopped eating completely. and the only thing would eat this awful thing called a licket or licky stick or something which is like a tube of disgusting patte so I used to sit for hours with these licky things with him just going

yeah yeah and then he just got thinner and thinner and I was kind of in denial and then I took him to the vet and the vet said we're going to have to keep him in and do lots of tests and you know it's like cat hospital it was a cat hospital in Belsize Park

and I just hadn't realized how attached I had become to this animal. It's a very pure relationship. There's no politics. There's no difficulty. And also, you know, you see your friends what once every two weeks, if you're lucky, once every six months, you know, for some friends. You see this animal every day. They are a huge, huge part of the fabric of your life.

If your life is a painting and day-to-day life is a painting, and day-to-day life was a painting. They are an enormous, enormous part of the painting. Not a little bit. They're a big bit. And then I got, and then I took him to the vet. He was in there for two days. And then I got the kind of traumatic haul of.

I'm really sorry there's like nothing you can do. Oh, I just can't even explain. I just never knew. I've never known grief. Lucky, I've never lost anyone close to me. You know, my father died a couple of years ago, but you weren't super, super close. Sounds awful, but like my cat dying was worse because we were so in love with each other.

And he loved me as well. So anyway, we went to the vet and the kids wanted to come and my ex-husband came and my boyfriend came and my mom came. It was kind of this really amazing. My ex-husband, I bought it, hit the pillow that he likes to sit on. Oh, don't. Oh, no, don't. It was, I actually like can't, I didn't understand grief. It's made me a better person.

Anyway, so my daughter, who's, he was like 10 at the time. She doesn't cry. She's very un-emotional. She's like her daddy, just like really balanced, factual. You know, this is life. This is how we go. She wanted to be there while they put him down. I couldn't, I just couldn't be.

I could be in there. There was really little until I sat outside and I wailed. I wailed on this bench in Balsas part with my mum, and she took my son, like, I ran for a walk where I just sat on this bench and wailed. And, like, just really, like, experiencing new level of emotion that I didn't, and then knew existed, and then they put him down, and my daughter was there. And she, she cried nonstop for four hours. And this is a girl who just doesn't cry.

She falls over, she gets up. She's, I'm fine. Totally fine. and my ex-husband sweetly took a half day or, well, took the rest of the day off work and just sat with her on the sofa. Because he was, he was like, this is obviously, she's not okay. She was inconsolable. And yeah.

And then I just experienced three months where I couldn't even really talk about him. Like really. I couldn't say his name. I couldn't. It was really interesting. Every time I thought about him, I just burst in tears and cried. But it was really, do you know, it was so weird.

It was really beautiful at the same time as being tragic and awful because I changed as a person, my empathy changed. My acknowledgement of what it means to be a pet owner changed. And I definitely, yeah, my, everything about me suddenly understood. I was like, oh, this is what grief. Oh, this is what grief looks like. Oh, I see.

You'll be in the supermarket one day and for no reason. and not even any like obvious trigger you'll just miss them and just burst in the middle of the supermarket. Anyways, that's my pet loss story. So what I'm saying to you is don't ever worry about like missing a pet,

being sad about a pet, being nervous about a pet. They're everything. It's a very, very intense, beautiful relationship. It's very intense, isn't it? And I also think what's interesting about our relationship with animals is that, you know, certainly I'm sure,

you've had this with your pets where they're sort of the sole witnesses to your interior thoughts. Yeah, wow. Okay. Let me just hang on. They're the sole witnesses to your interior thoughts. Explain that. Because I say things aloud to Ray. He hears me talking to myself. Or he hears or my phone conversations or, you know, you might have, whether it's a partner or kids, you edit yourself when you're living with other people. Whereas with animals, they see everything. because they're exposed to you crying where you might hide that from the world. Yeah. And I think there's sort of feels like a really, I don't know, that's a real privilege, you know, that you give them that role, that trust because they can't, you know,

I'm afraid even if they want to, they can, you know, spill the tea. But they also, why I love, I mean, dogs, you know, if they're going to want, if they want to get away, they can. But I feel like with my cats, so they're outside cats. they can go. Like there's nothing stopping them leave. They can go. So there's also a kind of consensual,

do you want to hang out with me? Because I want to hang out with you. I totally look after you. But like you could, they could go any minute. There's a cat flat. Off they go. But they choose,

I've got this other cat called Ruby, who's just this great big fluffy potato. I mean, I wouldn't really laugh about her. But she's kind of, I wouldn't say I have like an intense, loving relationship with her. Like she wants to be,

She's a typical cat. She wants to be fed and then she wants you to fuck off. Yeah. Whereas with House Party, the main coon is called House as after party time. So Party Time passed away, which was just the deepest, deepest loss of my life to date.

I'm for, how lucky though, to be 43. And that's the deepest loss. But bugger me. It was fucking awful. It was so painful. So I called House Party, obviously, in honour of party time.

And also my favourite party is a house party So I was like perfect I love that as well Because with those sort of really joyous names That you've chosen And let's face it frankly rather silly There's something lovely about that Because you'll say well

I was just sad because party time is no longer with us Every time you say that name Even if you're sad it'll be a laugh cry It really is it really is And there's pictures of him all over the house And there's every single picture of my kids Before he died was there. He's either in the background, like photo bombing or right there with us.

You know, he was a very present. You know, Raymond's obviously with you all the time. Yeah, it's a little codependent but that's how I like it. That's fine. I think every so often it's okay to have a codependent relationship. Oh, look at him. I'm so sorry that I don't get to have a cuddle with my hope I will one day. Well, you will. I'm going to bring up to see you because he is, he is the closest you'll get to a cat. Cherry, I have to say, I mean, I don't think I've ever had this before where I feel. I feel like I've, Raymond, don't heavy breathe into the microphone.

I know Cherry's extremely attractive. Do it. Go on Raymond. Let's turn this into an only fan. Oh, she's nice. We don't normally get them looking like this. She said it was an Ewok. What a fabulous opener to this chat.

I wanted to ask you actually about, you know, your origin story while I have you. So you've told us about your dog. And the fact that it was called, what is it called? Is it Monfleur? Muflo. Muflo. That was my mom's decision.

We come from a history of silly names. And that gives me a little bit of an insight into your background, I think. Tell me a bit more about growing up. What was your kind of family? It was you and, is it three brothers you've got, Jerry? Yeah, exactly. Good for search. I don't know if that's even, yeah, I've got three brothers.

Yeah. I've got my mom and my dad. and we lived in Suffolk growing up and then we moved to London when I was 10 and we've had a mixture of, well we had West Salentaria, we had two Spaniels, beautiful Spaniels who again both sadly died

but I was just, I was at boarding school they weren't really my dogs, they were my dad, my dad loved to shoot and so they were kind of spaniards, you know, they were trained Spaniels and they were his dogs. So when you say your dad loved to shoot, I'm getting a real, were they quite glamorous your parents? They are kind of, so my real name is Chadwick Healy,

which is kind of, And so it's that vibe. It's a lot of tweed, a lot of like pheasant and cherry and running around going, Jeffrey. Can I say I want to be the woman running around saying, Jeffrey? Jeffrey, do you come in, the pheasants ready. So it was posh, basically. It was a bit posh, yeah.

And so my dad had that kind of, you know, those extracurricular habits. But as I was sold, I knew where food came from. like I eat meat really consciously there's no sense of it just comes in a package and nothing's died like I really this sounds really hippie but I always give thanks to the food that I eat and I always buy the best I can possibly buy

because I see where it comes from but we would always eat what my dad shot so it was personally I think it's better to grow up knowing the connection between nature and what goes to feed you than just buying like 10 pork chops for five pounds and not really like anyway so that's so that's the shooting so he had spaniels because he would go shooting but again i personally think it's made giving me a respect yeah and i would argue all you were

was just more exposed to the inconvenient truth exactly but i think that's made me really thankful yeah and appreciative of where it comes to Yeah, because we all like that hypocrisy of, oh, I don't just don't tell me about what's happened. Don't, I don't want to see any of that. I don't want to see any blood. I just want the bacon sandwich. I don't want to be a vegan or a vegetarian, which I, God, I respect people who can do that. I've tried so many times to be a vegetarian.

I just, I just, I've failed at it. I think if you eat meats, the two things that I use as a, as a moral boundary for me is be thankful every time you have that meat in your house and you eat that meat and be acknowledged that this is a life that York is feeding you and your family and by the best you can possibly afford and don't eat it all the time. I'm fascinated by your background and I kind of think I would have really I would really like your parents. I know your dad's no longer with us but there's a kind of country poshness which I really like because they're the kind of people that they would never make you put your mug on a coaster and it's, do you know what I mean? I love it. So my mom,

my mom is called Alison. She is the sweetest, like, cosiest. I say she's sweet. She's got an edge. Don't, like, Mama's got an edge. You know, if there's an injustice or if there's a wrong, like she's the first person to go around and get signatures for everyone. Like, she's so amazing. But she's full of love. And my mum's mission is peace. and love. So if there's ever any discord in the family, if there's ever any confrontation, she's like the UN, she's the first person to, her whole thing is life is too short, it doesn't matter, let's find peace, let's forgive. So my mom is the walking epitome of grace itself. And she also is a fabulous cook. Like I grew up in a really cozy household where there was, you know,

home cooked food on the table every single night. And now that I'm a grown up, I appreciate the insanity of that. When I say every night, I mean, every night except Friday when my dad were going and get a takeaway, we'd have fish and chips or wouldn't pee. And that was a big treat. I'm talking every single, and on Saturday we'd have sausage, mash and beans. On a Sunday, we'd have a huge roast. And that's every single day. So I grew up in a house full of like love and coziness and hot food. My biggest trigger is when my kids go, what's for supper? I'm like, I don't know because will this question ever end? Yet I go up with like lasagnas and stews and risottoes and God, fish cakes and all these amazing, like beautiful meals.

I endlessly with that question. I remember using being a bit like, oh, God, dinner's at 7.30. It's so annoying. And my mum would have cooked that meal from scratch and it would like healthy, good unprocessed. that we just didn't eat processed food. But again, not because she was anti-processed food, but because she just, it didn't, it didn't factor into her. So, yeah, that's the household of growing, like, three silly brothers.

Lots of, like, people go, oh, you're the youngest of three brothers. You must have been really spoiled. Are you kidding me, Jeff? Three brothers. Do you think I got to watch my own TV show or eat my own sweets? Or, like, sit in the nice seat. I'm the opposite of a spoiled princess. I just put up with, I can just get on.

on with anything because you learn like you either learn to pay cricket and rounders or you're on your own so I can climb a tree I can throw a ball I can catch anything and I also don't mind just getting stuck in and I don't mind being teased so no I'm not a spoiled princess but I have got some I think my brother's given me lots of hopefully good traits I don't take myself too seriously which is good yeah that's interesting isn't it and you it was also like cartoons and cozy food and lots of jokes and and that's my dad my dad was really challenged he he was also wonderful but my dad was probably my dad is probably the the biggest learning point in my life he had a lot of addiction problems and so that

comes with a lot of really tricky character challenges and as a result I'm extremely emotionally aware and probably overly hyper-vigilant and I hyper-vigilant and I suffer from occasional like about anxiety, which is normal. I think most people do. But, so yeah, so that was, that was my upbringing. Lovely, but with its, with its challenges. Of course. And yes, I understand that, which is that you, it's what makes you so incredibly good at your job is that you're able to read rooms instantly and you pick up, I imagine, on everyone else's emotions, things that would be lost on other people. You'll think that person's not happy. What's going? going on there. And that does come from, I suppose it's some sort of, you know, history of hypervigilance,

maybe, which is common around the sort of. When you're little and your dad is a bomb waiting to go off and you never know when it's going to go off, you feel, you smell the smells in the room. You're like, that smells like that. That's coming from this person. And you, I could also, sometimes I could even steer the energy of the room with certain behaviours and chat and conversation and like energy you become like an energy manipulator to try and avoid the bomb going off and of course you're little you can't but you give it a go and as you get older you become more and more and more skilled at being able to diffuse the bomb um but yeah I mean it sounds I it's interesting you say that I think that people the only people who can recognize how that is are people

who can do it so that sounds like something that's you can do you don't you don't understand it unless you can do it. You know, obviously your job is chatting to people, getting to know them, and you sometimes come across people who do that for a living, but I think they would still ideally rather talk about themselves. Whereas with you, you are genuinely so curious, aren't you, about other people, slash nosy?

That's so nosy. Well, that's the reason I started doing this job, because I was a runner, researcher, and then assistant producer at the BBC and then this job came up BBC 3 were like oh

because they, do you remember the fabulous Dawn Porter she was doing these wonderful immersive and she was the first one to do them these immersive journalistic documentaries

and then she went off and did something else she was with Channel 4 she went off to do these really cool documentaries for them and BBC 3 was like oh we kind of

want to do them still I had a producer friend who was like you'd be perfect you're so no you're always asking people really intrusive questions. So this job came up and I went for it. And the BBC came back and said, yes, great, let's go for it.

So I got to make these amazing documentaries for about 10 years where all I did was just to rock up at people's houses and ask them those questions. It was like a gift. And when you were younger, would people, because you went to, I know you went to Cheltenham Ladies' College, you went to boarding school. And I wonder, would your friends at that time,

when they saw you, you know, ending up on TV, and would they have said, oh, that makes sense? Yes, totally. 100%. Without a doubt. If I'd have met you then, what would I have thought of you? Like, overly enthusiastic about everything. Like, really, I loved boarding school.

So I know that for some people it's really awful. and I know that sending child away might seem really mean. But for me, it was the best thing ever. I had three brothers, okay? So then I had, you can imagine, it's all these girls every day. And there's no end to it.

You don't even need to take a bye to them because you go to sleep with them in the evening. So you're chatting to them in the day and then you're chatting to them in break time and then you're hanging out with them at lunchtime and then you walk home. So my boarding house was really, really far away from the schools at 20 minutes. So you've got to walk there and back,

like five times a day. So to the main school, back for lunch, back. It's like constant. So you're walking endlessly, constantly talking and chatting and getting to know people. And in the evening, you sit on beanbags and you eat toast. And you talk about boys and penises and masturbation and what's going on with your period. And did Jeff text you or did he not text you? Jeff's busy. He's cropping off everywhere. It's Jeff and Susan. It was heaven. It was heaven. It was like, and those girls that I spent those seven years with, I like my sisters, their family.

I would die for them. I probably wouldn't, but I can say that I will. There's nothing that I wouldn't do for those girls. And that's really special. So yeah, I loved boarding schools. Wonderful. But I was really overenthusiastic. I was in every team.

I was a prefect. I was doing everything. Everything you needed to volunteer for. I just couldn't have been more happy at that school. It's a really incredible school as well. It's really like, there was a lot of really fancy, posh, rich people there, but no one gave a shit. Like, their ethos was work hard and get good grades and get involved,

or we don't care. Like, we're not interested in who your parents are. And I really loved that. So I just really, I really thrived there. It was the right school for me. So, yeah, so when my friends were, like, you know, I didn't bat an eye. They were like, oh, great. So you're doing something where you're being,

loud and talking a lot. Like, what a shocker. I read your memoir, which I really loved. I thought it was brilliant. You read that? Yeah, I really loved it. Shut the front. Did you really?

That's really, God, you do your research, don't you? Bloody hell, that's amazing. I learned from the best. That really means a lot that you read that. Well, I tore through it and I, I sound some awful. I read letters to my fanny. I tore through your fanny. That's what it's there for, babes.

That's what it's there for. It was brilliant. I really got such an insight into you. And it's about your, I suppose your relationship with your experiences of womanhood, really. And, yeah, I felt so much better about myself. That's so good. Don't you think, there's, it's funny because I was, you know, we grew up in the 90s where being a woman was to be six foot tall. Yeah.

And, like, not, not slim. We're talking skinny on the verge of need to be in hospital. type. That was what a woman was. And I grew up with three brothers. I was really loud, really good at sport, really fast, really strong, really assertive, really go-gettery, really ambitious, you know, and I went to an all-girls school. So I was in this bubble of what I said was important. And every time our team won, it was announced first. Like I was in the top teams for lacrosse, right? And that was the most exciting, you know. And so there was all sorts of false, security in my, in how a woman was listened to and how the importance and value on a woman's

achievement. So I left school feeling like I can do anything and what I do is important and I mean, you can imagine when I got into the world how I had this kind of cliff dive into reality where it was like, oh, what, do you mean there's no career path for my sport? Oh, so what, do I just give that? I just give it up now. I'm really, I was really, I was really good at it, like really, really good. And then you're, for girls, it's like, well, no, that's, that's the end of that. That's the end. There's no, you can't make money from it. So that's, you know, it's a nice hobby, but that's the end. Thank God it's different now. Oh, thank God it's different now. But when I was, when I left school, that was like, oh, well, it's great that you're

fantastic a sport, but that's, you know, adorable, but that's the end of that. Oh, and also the boys, we read out the boys, uh, sporting accolades on TV. We don't read the girls out. We don't care. And when there's a big World Cup, the boys get all excited. And if the girls get excited, it's a bit pathetic. It was such a reality check. I was like, no, no, no, but I'm going to go on stage and get a trophy because I, oh, no, and nothing I do matters. No one cares about the fact that I was good at sport. Oh, I see. It's so, it was like this big, beautiful helium balloon and it was just popped. Yeah. And that is why I'm so passionate about women. That is why I'm so passionate because I've lived in a world where we are important. I've experienced what it feels

like to be around women where your name is called out first and you are just as important, if not more important than the men. Boys, where are the boys? The boys went nowhere. It was in a girl's school. The girls are getting straight A's. They were, you know, they were the head of the politics team, the debate team. I've lived in the world where women are important and valued. And I see the world we live in now. That's why I'm so passionate about it and that's why I can't bear that women's health isn't even where it should be.

It's not even vaguely where it should be and women don't even feel like they can talk about money or they don't go for jobs because they feel like women feel like they should be in service. They should be care, nothing against this, but always looking after other people and that's where your value is. I found it fascinating.

You talked in this book about this math teacher and Mrs Huckabee. Yeah, okay. Let's name and shame them, Miss Caruthers. Yeah, oh my God, was yours Miss Caruthers? When you got the answer wrong, she'd write, because I went to an all-girls school, it wasn't at Borders Club, but it was a girls' school in London called Channing.

Did you? So you know, oh, so you know this feeling. I know the system. I know the type. And so if you got the answer wrong, she'd write DSA, damn silly answer, and DSQ, damn silly question. And she would throw exercise books at you that would hit your,

head and chalkboard, you know, you had a really similar experience with this math teacher. And she would throw like the board wiper. And it's, it's so unnecessary. I mean, can imagine that happening now. I think, you know, people get, we did, and the 90s were wild, weren't they? We all smoked. We all smoked at 12. We'd all, like, I mean, the things we did in the 90s are wild.

The things I did as a teenager, I probably can never talk about this. They were wild. And I look at my daughter now, she's 15. I don't think a boy has ever texted. I'm like, I was on my fourth boyfriend at 15. I was a woman of the world. They talk about Brat Summer and I'm like, that was just live. That was live.

Darling, I'd been to my first music festival on my own with a couple of friends, slept in a tent and ate nothing but Nutragrine bars at the age of 15. My daughter, my daughter, my daughter gets excited when she's allowed to order food from my phone. She's like, oh, look at you being grown up. I'm like, you don't know what we were doing. You know, for me, a good weekend was when my mum gave me a five-hour. And again, like, my mum didn't know about this. She gave me a fibre and got out of my friends.

And we'd buy cider and a packet of camel. We'd sit in the park and smoke and drink. Sorry for listening, Alison. Sorry, Alison. She knows now. But that was at 14. At 14, I had a fake ID. And me and my brother would go to the rat and parrot in Chelsea, and we'd drink.

marches lemonade and we get really drunk or we come home. We'd smoke all night. Fourteen. That was the 90s people. Were you always popular, Cherry? Did you always have some main character energy? It was such an interesting question. That's such a pretty, no one's ever asked me that. I hope that I made people feel good and happy. I don't think I was super interested in being in a tight clique because being left out is the worst feeling ever and it's really shit and I don't want to be the person causing that feeling. I think I was always, I want everyone to feel part of the party because I don't want to be in a room where someone feels shit because that's not fun for me because I can, I can feel it. So it's totally selfish. It's completely selfish.

I just, I can just, I just know when someone's feeling shit. I'm not saying that I'm perfect all time. I can be such a twang. Don't get me wrong, but I think as a general rule, I want people to feel good in, to feel good. Were you popular? Terry Healy, you're doing it again. Do you know what I've noticed about you, though,

is that I think someone like you, in the Jilly Cooper novel, someone who looked like you did and had your background, wouldn't have your warmth, quite frankly, and charisma and kindness because why would you need to? You're so sweet. You say looks like you, but you make me sound like I'm a real hotty.

Don't get me wrong, like, you wouldn't kick me out of bed if I farted. However, I'm not like a great beauty. And I make peace, I'm at peace with that. I'm not a great beauty, but I'm all right. And I can look banging, given a bit of a spray tan and a couple of hours to get ready. I can look great. But I don't, my identity is definitely not in how I look.

And I, and like growing up, I had spots and double train tracks and really short hair and I never knew how to dress. And so being a good looking person is not in any way part of my identity. So you saying that's really funny because I just don't relate to that to all. Although I can look really fucking great. But then that's why you've got the personality that you've got, because if you had invested in that at all at any point in your life, why would you bother, why would you be? warm. I do understand. I do actually really under,

I'm not going to pretend that I don't really understand what you're saying. I've actually got a friend who, I hope she doesn't mind me telling this story. I'm going to use a fake name. Let's call her Susan. Let's call her Susan. Okay. So she's one of my outside best friends. And she is so beautiful.

She looks like Natalie Pullman. Oh, good God. But she's so weird and wonderful. This girl, I would die for this girl. I adore her. But she was always a bit of a funny sausage in the most brilliant way. She's really smart, really, really, like really book smart. She's, she's fucking weird.

She's really, like, if there's a bowl of custard, she has to put a hand in. She doesn't do it to be weird. She's just, like, she's just wonderful. And I remember one day when we were at a party, and all these boys were surrounded, and she never really had, she never made an effort with them. She was never, like, effusive or chatty or charming. She was always just a bit quiet and weird and bumpy. And I remember what I saying, you need to be a bit, you need to be a bit nicer to those boys,

because you went very nice them. And she was like, you know what? I've just never had to make an effort. It was really interesting. This is how cool she is. She was like, I've never had to make an effort. Boys will always talk to me first. Boys will always come and I can be as mean as I like.

I can not talk to them. I can stare at my feet. I don't ask them any questions. And I will always be surrounded by the boys. And I thought, there's self-awareness there. I do think, I hear what you're saying. You don't necessarily have to be the kindest, Miss compassionate, mis-emphetic person if your currency is beauty.

Because people fawn after you, even if you treat them meanly, that's what I witnessed. And also I think, how do you learn empathy? You learn empathy through a difficulty of your own in some form. And I think when you live a life where you're shielded from that in every aspect, it sounds like you weren't because you had, you know, stuff to navigate in your home life. That gives you, you know, a form of empathy, doesn't it? I think sometimes people who've had very gilded lives, I always think in the, you know, if it's the Greek mythology, that's their terrible curse.

Yeah, that's interesting. I agree. I think also money, it can be such a curse. I've grown up in an environment where I've, because of the school that I went to, I've mixed with people who've got a lot of money. parents didn't, they were okay, but they didn't have tons of money. But I got up with people who really had like lots and lots and lots and lots. And you think it's going to be this magical cure. Now, worrying about how you're going to pay your mortgage is shit. It's like, can't sleep at night

awful, not being able to feed your family. And you, you know, and I've been in that position a few times. It's really horrible. It's like, I can't sleep type horrible. But I have witnessed time. and time again, people with money they've inherited, so they haven't had to work for it, who don't know what it feels like, being cursed in a weird, different way, and not being able to find your identity because why would you bother working hard when you're getting all this money? And it has its own problems, interestingly. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday.

So whatever you do, don't miss it. and remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.