Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Chloe Petts (Part One)

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

For our first walk of 2025, we’re in East London’s Victoria Park with the brilliant comedian Chloe Petts! With a name like Petts - we had high expectations that Chloe was going to be a dog person… and we weren’t disappointed! Chloe told us all about her imaginary golden retriever and then her *real* childhood dog Grady - who had a rather flirty entry into The Petts Household. Chloe tells us about the perks of being misgendered, the anxiety of her early years in comedy and what it was like to have a mum who worked as a forensic scientist. Chloe brings her brand-new show, How You See Me, How You Don’t, nationwide as part of her third UK tour, kicking off with a two-week run at London’s Soho Theatre, Downstairs from Monday 13th – Saturday 25th January at 7.15pm and running till Sunday 9th March at Brighton Komedia. Full dates and tickets at chloepetts.orgFollow @chloepetts on Instagram Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For those listening at home, I'm going to describe the quality of the poo. The tiny most pathetic poo I've ever seen in my life. Nothing imperial about that shit, sir. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a stroll with the very talented and brilliant comedian Chloe Pets in East London's Victoria Park. Now, I had high hopes for this meeting because surely anyone with the surname Pets was born to be a dog lover and Chloe did not disappoint. In fact, I can exclusively reveal the pair of them were all over each other. And the three of us had the loveliest walk, chatting about everything from Chloe's family dog, Grady,

to her childhood growing up in Kent, and of course her hugely successful comedy career, which has seen her perform sell-out live tours and a string of appearances on shows like, Have I Got News for You, hypothetical, and Jonathan Ross's comedy club. Chloe is one of those people who just emanates a very, of benevolent, reassuring energy. She's the kind of person you feel you could call at 2am in a crisis. So frankly, I plan to do just that. She's also hilariously funny, as you'd expect,

and just joyous company to go for a walk with. So I really think you're going to love this one. I also really recommend seeing her live. So if you fancy that, you're in luck, because her new show, How You See Me, How You Don't, will be on at London's Soho Theatre from January the 13th to January the 25th and it'll be touring all around the country throughout February and March so do go and book your tickets now at Chloepets.org Ray and I will see you there. I'm not even sure if dogs are allowed so if anyone asks I'm just carrying an excessively furry handbag. I really hope you enjoy our walk with Chloe. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the main event. Here's Chloe and Ray Ray. Let me get that for you. Come on then. Oh Chloe I love that you. That you

You just said, let me get that for you and you opened the door. Well, it was good that I said, let me get that for you and then realised that it said push rather than pull because I could have been saying, let me get that for you. Please, can you get it for me? I don't know what's going on. But I managed to get it right at the last second. Oh, it's a great start.

I felt so looked after. I loved it. I think it's probably my masculine energy, which your dog, Roman? Raymond. Raymond. Even better. better. I think Raymond has

rolled over and really showed his belly to me and I think it is my kind of alpha dominant energy that he's responding to. Oh, do you think that's what it is? Maybe. How is he with men? He's better with women. I've got to be honest. Maybe it's my gentle feminine energy that he's responding to there.

I feel like he's getting the best of both worlds with you. He can't believe his luck. He's a perfect little angel. Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad. Already it's got off to a Cracking start, except it is a very windy, slightly rainy day. But you strike me, Chloe Pets, as someone made of quite sturdy stuff.

Yeah, I do have sort of quite a hardy energy, I would say. Today I was texting, though, going, is it going to rain? I've got, I've had a bit of a sort of, a bit of a sore throat over the weekend. Is it going to rain? Are we going to be all right? But now I'm out. It's bracing. And I like it.

It wakes you up. puts a bit of pep in your step I like it's a bit SAS are you tough enough yeah I think it is actually this is Raymond's equivalent well Chloe I'm so thrilled to have you on this podcast

thanks for having me Raymond and I are such big fans of yours and we're in we won't be too specific about where you live but I'm assuming you live near here we're in Victoria Park in Hackney is it

yeah so sort of I think it's kind of It spreads itself between multiple places. Yeah. And do you like this part of town? I love this part of town. It's my favourite part of town in London. I often go running around this park very slowly.

This bit that we're on now is roughly where park run starts. Do you ever do park run? What do you think? Actually, I think you could do park run. Well, you're up early for the radio. Not anymore. Oh, yeah, flimmy neck. That's what I've come here today.

I'm trying to poach you for my own radio show. You're interested? So you're quite, you're quite sort of healthy and fit, are you? Well, I'm trying to be. I think it's very, make the body feel good. I do a lot of yoga. I do a lot of running. Just for the brain, really.

Yep. It's true. Oh, look, look at him run, Chloe. He's a real strange little chap. He is, isn't he? And do you know what? I think that's why I love him. What is he?

He is... He is... An imperial shih Tzu. So originally they were bred for the... The emperors in China. It was punishable by death to own one outside of the palace. But I think we're going to get away with it. I think we'll be all right.

But he's quite like we can pick him up and do a runner if we need to. He's really cute. He's very gentle. He was saying he doesn't... He's not got a bark in him. He's never barked, which is something of a superpower. But then, you know what? I've always, I've had so many lovely things about you from people in the comedy world

and specifically from Frank Skinner, who I know you're very fond of. Of course. And you strike me as someone who's, well, what I've heard about you is that you're very, that you would describe once as a very kind and moral person. How do you feel about that description? I'm doing very good PR of my personality then. I think I like to think of myself as a kind of moral person. He's having a poo.

We were just about to get into the good stuff and he was like, no, not on my watch. Oh my God. Right. So if I was listening at home, I'm going to describe the quality of the poo. The tiny most pathetic poo I've ever seen in my life. Nothing imperial about that shit, sir. Oh, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard. I forgot how wonderfully pleased you are by things and it's really, there's another little nugget over there.

And it's not a normal colour of poo. Mind up for this bike here. Sorry. Okay, thank you. That was quite a dramatic reaction. We're traumatic reaction. So is it always that colour? It's not brown.

It's sort of... It's kind of... You know the green poo of the naughtyies that everyone used to talk about? Oh yes. Is it white poo? Yes. It had a little green sheen to it. What have you been eating?

Come on Ray Ray. You haven't been having a brat summer, have you? I tell you what? He's on the James Middleton diet, which is, you know, um, James Middleton, as in the brother of? Yes. He has his own dog food range. No way.

Yeah. I tried it once. James Middleton came on this podcast and he gave me something. He said, we're going to try some of this. It's very, very nice. Oh my God. He won't eat anything else now. I have to, I was trying to get hold of it and I was ringing around. They said, I'm afraid there's only one store in Chelsea. It's because of the Royal Link, because he only eats something sort of royal. Yeah, he loves it.

He's very regal, very, very gay little dog, I would say. Oh, do you know, that's made my day. I've always wanted a gay dog. It's like my mother said to me, she was crying once. She was an actress, very theatrical, used to smoke and drink a lot. And she said, what's wrong? I said, do you know, it's one of the greatest tragedies of my life that I'll never have a gay son. So we and my sister were like, I don't know what to say to you in this moment. Sorry that we're straight and women.

Exactly. Right, I'm going to carry him for a bit. Yes, as he deserves, because he's a little king. Tell me about. Your history with dogs. Oh yeah. So, always been a big dog fan, dog person rather than cat person. We always wanted one as kids, me and my brother, me and my brother Peter. And I used to, in our back garden, I used to play a game on my own, which was that I had a farm,

and on the farm I had a golden retriever. and the golden retriever would go following me around. That was just before I went to uni. Just kidding, of course. So I was probably about five or six. I had my little pet, golden retriever that would come with me everywhere. And then when we begged and begged, we'd say, can we have a dog, can we have dog?

And I just always thought it wouldn't happen. And then when me and my brother were sort of having our difficult teenage years, where, you know, hormones running high, anxiety running high. I think my parents eventually just went, yeah, all right, we can, we'll get you a dog as a sort of unifying factor that, so that the family sort of had a project to do together, if you see what to me. I'm just seeing. It is flooded.

Should we go this way? Should we go round? I feel you would call it a puddle. What have you calling it? Oh, to me. A river. Yeah. It's Lake Ontario.

To answer Ray, that's the Pacific. Yeah, Ray can't be going in that. Not our little prince. Come on. I'm seeing Christmas future when you possibly have a son. Not our little prince. Just a horrid little spoilt brat that I have. The sort of blue satin tailored suits.

Yeah, I might consider myself to be kind of moral, but not my son. He's a monster and I love him. It's so weird because Chloe's such a kind and moral person in here. Her son is so spoiled. Disgusting, awful. Go on then. So then we got this. Just one day went, yeah.

So I was about 16, 17. My brother was 17, 18. And we went to the Dogs Trust. And we met a bunch of dogs and we met Grady. And he was like a beautiful sort of, what's the word? I wanted to say mixed race. But that's not right, is it? Well, I had Leighton Williamson Strictly, who is fabulous on this podcast,

and he referred to them as collabs, which I love. Yeah, amazing. But yeah, mixed breed, I would say. Yeah, it was a collab. Yeah, a collab. And so we don't really know what he had in him. Loads different stuff, he liked sniffing the floor, but kind of a Labrador kind of shaped body, but he had white fur that wasn't, that was like quite close to his skin,

like that little dog. there and then he had these... Oh, that's their Frenchie, yeah. No, not like a Frenchie, but like fur like a Frenchie. Yeah, oh yeah. But he was quite a big dog and he had like brown around his eyes and black around his eyes. And he was just such a lovely dog and he had this like wonderful temperament and we were choosing between a few dogs and then my dad went, he winked at me. I'm like, what do you mean he winked at you?

He went that one just winked at me. And I was like, you think that that dog just winked at you and that's a little. And that's what you're going to base this decision on. And he went, yeah, it winked at me. So we picked Grady and then we found out that he had a bit of a squint in one eye. Even the birds are enjoying that. So yeah, we then got Grady and he was a perfect sort of addition to the family because he was kind of a bit like us, which was that quite chill,

would come to you for a bit of a cuddle. but wasn't, he wasn't needy. He was very self-sufficient, very independent. And he was just this wonderful, unifying factor, and we loved him so much. Oh, how lovely. Yeah. And you were saying it's you, your brother, Peter.

Yes. And then is it Jill and Tony? Yeah, how'd you know that? I'm good. I say I'm good. I'm nosy. How have you? Where have you found out? I know things.

Have you called someone up? Who have you been calling? It's not surprised, surprise, surprise. Frank's met Jill and Tony. Was it him? No, I don't think it was. I just, look, I do my research. I'm old school.

Yeah, but there's old school and then there's CIA. Well, talking of which. Go on. CIA. It's not CIA, but is it, Tony, is he works for the police? Where have you really got this from? And that's how Jill and Tony met. Yeah? You've listened to Family Jewel's Olga Coxpockler.

I've listened to all sorts. I've listened to all sorts. I prepare for my interviews like a PhD. That's really good. Yeah, I do. That's really good. So Jill and Tony? Yeah. Oh, listen to that heckler. Pipe down, love. I've dealt with worse than you. Jill and Tony, I really love the sound of Jill and Tony. Oh yeah, they're really. You get on well with them actually. actually. What's how high?

Definitely. Couple of glasses of red with my mum, you get really cheeky around the dinner table. I could tell. They were both in the police. Yeah, civis. They were just sort of, you know, they went in when they were 16, just doing fingerprints and other like. It sounds like a laugh.

I think very little work was done back then. Yeah. And they were very, as you said, your dad went on. He had a career in the police, didn't he? And your mum did various other jobs. But what I like is that she had, she did various other jobs. One was at funeral director? Yeah, classic.

And then did she go back? She was like a, is it like a crime scene investigator or something? Yeah. Where she was doing forensics. Would you like me to tell the famous anecdote? So my mum, when I, I was probably about seven at the height of my relationship with my imaginary golden retriever. She retrained, so she'd always been incredibly selfless and looked after me and my brother.

And she went, right, I'm going to retrain. I'm going to be a forensic scientist. And we said, great, you go for it. Sorry, Chloe, look at this. The dog of Alcibiades. What do you think that is? I don't know Do you think it's like Some kind of Greek dog

Yes Like the guards, the gates of hell Like a kerberus type thing Oh do you think so? No, I just made it up I really trusted you then I don't think it's anything to do with what I just said So go on

Right so mum trains as a forensic scientist Things are going great One day she's sort of still in her training year She gets called out on an emergency There's been a big murder in the Folkestone area. And I'm not going to go into details here, but it was a pretty horrific murder,

is what I would say, multiple murders. So mum goes and dad for some reason gets in his head that he'll show, so this is going to be on the news. Not the local news, the national news. So dad decides, mum's going to be on the telly. You've got to get the seven-year-old down

to watch mum on the telly. And you mean when there's a man or woman standing outside saying and coming to you live from the crime scene? Yeah. Right, okay. And we're thinking we're going to get a little glimpse of mum. Yeah. So dad turns on the news to this seven and eight year old, very excited to see their mum. And this, well, it did happen to be a man at the time.

But, you know, a person of any gender. A person of any gender. Famously. Just asked Moira Stewart. Exactly. And it was a hammer murder. It was a horrible, it was a horrible, horrible, horrible murder. And we were going, we were going, where's mum?

Where's mum? And then, of course, we realised that mum was dressed in her forensic whites. So it was like, how are we going to tell which one mum is? They're all in the same forensic whites. But then, just across the back of the screen, you see the shot of this woman sort of pottering around the crime scene, like she's making everyone a cup of tea. And we went, there she is! and cheered.

Seven and eight years of cheering this awful horrendous murder. Awful tragedy. Yeah, we're very proud of her. But I, this, and we should say this is in Kent where you grew up, wasn't it?

And I get the sense, whenever you've talked about your childhood, Chloe, it seems like you were pretty happy as a kid and your childhood was pretty secure and safe and joyous. So why did you become a comedian?

Yeah, I don't know. It's weird, isn't it? I think... Where's your damage? I think we also have to remember. Like, I wasn't the sort of gregarious person about town that I was when I was a child. I was also, like, quite an anxious little kid.

Like, I was always very kind of introspective, quite worried about things, the world, interacting with people. and I think it made me quite serious as a child and my family, my brother, my mum, my dad were always very silly and I thought I was the least funny one in the family. And then it was only when I went to school that I started having my own friends and stuff that I found my comedic voice, if you will, and found that I was funny. But by that point it felt like it was a bit too late and it felt like I wasn't the funny one in the family. So I think if we psychoanalysis it, the reason why I'm a stand-up is to try and prove to my family that I'm funny too. I get that exactly.

It's interesting that you say you were sort of, you had anxiety and you were anxious as a kid because what sometimes happens if you experience that when you're a kid is that you don't, everything feels normal to you, doesn't it? It's not like you think, oh, this is anxiety? Yeah, exactly. Oh, is this how I have to feel like all the time? So did that, did you invent sort of coping mechanisms for that, do you think? That's a really great question, actually. I'm not really sure, like, I, like, my mum was really amazing with me and was like very patient and very kind and, like, understood that I was a gentle little soul. I think I was always quite solitary.

Like I always kind of, I have my friends and it was. But it was only when I sort of got to year 10 that I found my friendship group. And I sort of moved quite transiently between friendship groups when I was a child and when I was in my early teens. And then, yeah, it was just when... You were one of those shapeshifters. I quite like those people. It probably helps you be a comedian as well

because you're working out how to entertain whatever new group of people that you come to. And you're constantly having to kind of break the ice of it. Yeah, yeah. Come on, Ray. Come to Chloe. Come on Ray, you can do it. Ray, Ray, Ray, you cute. Ray, come to Chloe.

Wow, why are you so cute? How old is it? He's eight now. Oh, you cute little thing. Oh, he's so lovely. Oh, I love you, so dearly. Do you know what? My girlfriend's really into chihuahuas.

Is she? Yeah. So I think we're going to have to get a chihuahua at some point. Imagine me and my chihuahua. I think it will be the great, it will be a bit like when Greg Davis came on this podcast. Yeah. But do you think it will make me look a bit like, oh no, it won't make me look anything. It will just make me look like I have two cute little dogs.

I think it will be a real bonus for you. Aesthetically. Yeah. I think it's great. Okay. Chihuahua on each arm. It shows you as confident, I think. It's like when I go to yoga, it's like I'm confident enough in my own sort of masculinity

that I'm happy to do a turn about the room with the ladies. Yeah, because you're saying, oh, I don't think this is going to make me look like to, you know, some legally blonde. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like when Harry Stiles wears pearls. You're like, yeah, that's the most masculine thing you can possibly do. Okay.

love two little chihuahuas then. Can I come back on the podcast when I do? It's not a question. You're contractually obliged. But we've got to get nice ones because apparently some of them are accidentally bred that their skulls are too small for their brain and that's why they're so angry. I think that's what happened to me. That's classic. Child of actors is this one. I love the idea of young Chloe I would watch that film oh yeah what were your friendships like were you sort of an intense friend were you sounds like you were kind of you got along pretty much with everyone yeah I think I was yeah I didn't have like my best friend when I was um at primary school and I think I really wanted that I wanted like a a close friend but I sort of flipped between the boys and the

girls because you know I would play football with the boys but I wasn't truly one of them yeah but because I played football with the boys I wasn't truly one of the girls group either and then yeah when I got to secondary school yeah I probably had like one or two close individual friends and I think I was probably like maybe quite intense then because it was like this thing that I'd always wanted and I didn't really know how to do it and I was scared of losing it so it was quite sort of you know hold on to it type and then I would have these sort of like I remember having a blow-off argument with my best friend when we were about 12 and um I was miserable I was so upset and I tried to call her I tried to call her home phone and I got through to her mom and her mom was like she doesn't want to talk to you right now oh I've gone off the mom now well what can she do she can't force if someone doesn't want to talk to you they don't want to talk to you I know but at least go stew it's also so funny that you heard you heard the name mum had decided that you liked her.

And then I said, and then I said, she wouldn't let me talk to her and you went, gone off her now. It was quick, wasn't it? It was really quick turn around. Yeah, you made your judgment on mum. And then by the end of the sentence,

total 180. And did you find Chloe, you know, you've talked, you talk a lot in your act and when you're doing material and stuff about this experience you have of being misgendered a lot of the time.

Yeah. When you were growing up, did you find that happening as well? Sometimes, like, I would say it like I was probably by grown-ups, like, in, you know, in shops. I would get my saying for a man, but it would be quickly like, oh, sorry, madam, because I was presenting quite feminine, but I was quite tall. Yeah. And then I feel like amongst the kids, that sort of is a perceived weakness. So they sort of weaponise it against you. And I, oh, there's a man over there kind of thing.

Yes. But I guess I just learned to sort of laugh about it, but it did make me feel embarrassed and worried. And now I just find it really funny. It happened the other day and next when I was back with my parents over Christmas. And my mum doesn't believe me that it happens as much as it does. And the shop attendant went, like, oh, come over to the next till, sir. And my mum started crying with laughter. She found it so funny.

And you're all like, oh, it's a Tuesday. Yeah. That's just what happens. And the woman was mortified and I was like, don't be mortified. I wouldn't choose the clothes that I have chosen to wear if I was worried about it. And I found it really fascinating when you've talked about how it enables you that sometimes. That experience of being misgendered that you have, sort of having some insight into male privilege. Yeah, I mean, I get treated lovely by taxi drivers.

I had one of them where... No problems, sir. No problem, sir. Yeah, right, right, do you know a couple of extra stops, of course, sir? No, it was more... It was crazy because this one time, this guy, like, was driving me home in an Uber, and he clearly, like, wanted to brag to me about this affair that he was having. And I kind of went, oh, like, you know, is that...

treat your wife's happy about that. And he was like, no. And I was like, well, you know, there's nothing wrong with you see it, seeing multiple people as long as it's like something this is arranged with your wife. And she gets to it to and he's like, I wouldn't let her do that. And anyway, we had this long conversation and it turns out that he had just had his second child and that the child was really young and the wife wasn't really paying him any attention. And like, he was finding that really difficult.

And it meant that he was sort of engaging in these affairs because he was feeling really rejected. And we had this whole conversation about it. And I was like, mate, I just, I don't know if this is the right thing for you. You seem really miserable and maybe, you know, you should focus on reconnecting with your wife. And he made it very clear that he thought I was a bloke. And he went, he was just like, oh, thank you so much, mate. Yeah, that means, that means a lot like, thank you. That's a really interesting perspective.

Like, I really appreciate you taking the time to say that. And I was sort of like, that was my first go at doing male-fell. friendship and I nailed it. Boys, start talking to each other better. Call each other out. Come on. It's not that hard. I think you could do some really important work if you were sent in to infiltrate. And there's Chloe presenting it in a very reasonable, rational way that because if they have misgendered you, they will listen to you. Yeah. So I'm, miss me, Colin, stop cheating on your misses. Stop taking cocaine and getting in scuffles at the football. Colin, why have you got a very small chihuahua with a pink tutu on it?

Because I'm comfortable with my masculinity. Thank you very much. And I look lovely in these pearls too. That's really interesting that you were saying you, you didn't judge that person though. You took time to ask why. And that is, I would say, very much child of someone who perhaps has it, you know, that's what they do is that they have to assess evidence and weigh things up and investigate. You did an investigation. I did an investigation. You are? You're a fairer.

Your crime scene investigator. I did some crime scene investigation. I have more white son. My family were watching me on the news from home. You're child of Jill. I'm child of Jill. Yeah, I just think, though, it's like, I don't know. I bet you were the same.

You just get to a point in life where, like, you've sinned so much. You've thought so many awful thoughts that anything anyone brings to me now. I'm sort of like, yeah, who am I to judge? I think that's absolutely right. You get far less judgmental. Yeah. But then something seems to happen to like a certain demographic of people that they get more judgmental then. Like, you know, when they hit their 50, 60s.

But then you're still young. So, in fact, you're incredibly young and that's to be so successful and, you're, you're so successful and, you're, you're, you're... and it feels like it happened, it didn't happen quickly for you, but you've got such incredible reviews of the very first show that you did. I want to go back a bit quickly to just prior to that and you go to university, don't you, in London? Yes. And you did English?

Yes, that's right. I feel that was where your interest in comedy really started. Yeah, I mean... Or performing, certainly. Performing, like, yeah, I always wanted to perform. I always wanted to perform, like I always wanted to be an actor and like, but I'd always wanted to make people laugh and be funny. And it was when, you know, I was in, like when I was 14 and I was in physics and we had Mr. Richards Jr. was our substitute teacher. And he knew that he was a substitute.

He knew as well as we did that it was a piss around. So he just let us sort of like do a worksheet and chat. And he went to me, we gone quite well and he was like, you should do stand up. And that was when it first sort of like became an embryo in my mind. Yeah. And what did Jill and Tony say when you said you wanted to be a comedian? Or did you not sort of announce it? Did it just happen organically mid-university?

I think it was just after I left that I started doing gigs. And I must have told them. And they must have been like, oh, that's fun. That's exciting. That's a nice hobby. And then the only time my dad said, said anything about it was he picked me up I think we were in I can't remember we were somewhere coastal it was like deal or something like that because it was in

Kent dad was like I'll just come that I'll come pick you up you come home for the weekend so you come pick me up and I said he went out did the gig going I went there were three people there one of them left halfway through because someone said there's something insulting about his wife and he stood up and said you don't talk about my wife like that left the wife stayed. So by the end of the gig we we'd lost 33.3% recurring of the audience. And I came out and I told my dad this and dad and dad just thought for a moment and went, maybe you should sort of retrain as an accountant or something like that. And that was

the only time he's um he's sort of expressed any doubts. What do you think? Because that is of course what often separates comedians who go on to be able to earn a reasonable living from it, you know, in those that never get beyond that point of the three people in the room and someone walking out. Yeah. I think is resilience, essentially. Where do you get that in a resilience from that I think is probably very necessary to do your job? I'm not really sure, if I'm honest. Like, I remember those early years being in my early 20s being like marred by anxiety. and I think like I think it's maybe if I've been a bit more well-balanced

I wouldn't have continued doing stand-up because there was just this feeling in my mind of you have to do this, you have to do this even though it sort of tortured me at times and made me feel awful a lot of the time there was just like a doggedness which was like you got it, you said you do this you've got to do it. Right.

And I think it's only as I've grown up and you know as I've started to enjoy it more because I chilled out, that's when I sort of don't need the resilience anymore because it kind of just washes over you like a wave now. And also, it's like any skill that you have to master. It's like driving. You know, I used to get terrified when I got in the car. I'd be slightly shaking, thinking, oh my what's going to happen? But I suppose you're, what's happening is it's 10,000 hours worth of situations that you've racked up. So you think, I've dealt with this before. That's bang on, yeah.

And I think, I suppose, it's the same with stand-up, isn't it? I've dealt with a heckler like this before. I know what happens when crowds you're out like this. But it's also like, yeah, that's a cute little dog. This is a, look at this poodle. Lovely poodle. Oh, he's had curly hair. He knew I meant him.

I don't think you're walking past a man going lovely poodle who has a poodle, and he's thinking, I think she was, I think she was saying I looked like a dog. Imagine his, like how fragile his ego must have been if you gave him a compliment and he somehow managed to turn it around and be like, she said I looked disgusting. You were talking just now about how, yeah, that resilience that you developed and how a lot of comics say I felt like, sort of once I did it and I experienced that feeling. Frank Skinner, who we both know says this.

Yeah. that was sort of it. Like I felt I can't really do anything else now. Yeah. Did you get that moment? I think I did like kind of imperceptibly because like I say it was so miserable the first sort of three or four years that I did it. I just really didn't like it. And within like towards the sort of third and fourth years there would be like 50% of times that I loved it.

But there was just something totally unquestioning about it where I was just like this is what I do now. Like this is what I would be. And it's really difficult when people go, if you were in a stand-up, what else would you do? It's like, I don't know. Like, why would I think about that? I'd probably always just do stand-up even if it was alongside another job.

Yeah. As well. When you initially started working professionally and doing gigs and things, your first show, it got incredible reviews, didn't it? I mean, there was something I remember reading, was it Bruce Desauro?

Oh, yeah. The most accomplished. Wasn't it something debut ever? Bruce is always nice to me. He's a good bloke, yeah. Well, yeah, I think it was like, because I had, I took my time with it because I had the COVID years. So there was an accidental bit of taking of time of it. But also just like, I think I always had a sense that like I would be like, once I sort of learned some of the skills of stand up, it was more I just needed to grow up.

Yeah. And I think probably that's probably the accomplished thing. comes from is like I just had taken the time to like grow up and not be anxious anymore and not like be as mean to myself like I think I just felt like a like just a quick yeah because I was like oh this doesn't really matter like it'll be nice to get the reviews but that's the thing about stand-up like it's almost counterintuitive you have to you almost have to stop caring to get good because as soon as you're desperate you walk out on stage the audience know that you're desperate whereas if you just walk out on

So I don't need you to laugh. They're like, okay, this person, we're in safe hands. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday. So whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.