Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Clare Balding

Episode Date: December 26, 2023

This week, Emily and Raymond take a walk with broadcaster and author Clare Balding at Chiswick House in West London. Clare takes us along the route she used to walk with her beloved Tibetan Terrier, Archie, and tells us about how animals have played a huge part in her life - she even got given a horse by the Queen! Clare's book Isle of Dogs is available to buy now: lnk.to/IsleofDogsbook Listen to Emily's walk with Gabby Logan from April 2017Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Walking The Dog is a Goalhanger Podcast brought to you by Petplan: visit petplan.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This podcast is sponsored by Petplan, who are the UK's number one pet insurer. I've always used Pet Plan for Raymond as they cover things other insurers don't, and they can even pay your vet directly, which can be a big help. No, Raymond, that doesn't mean you can spend all the extra cash on treats. Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet Plan is a trading name of Allian's Insurance PLC. His grandfather won crafts. The rather wonderfully named Fabulous Willie.

You know when you're showing a dog, they talk about the handler? Yeah, yeah. So, so-and-so's handling. It didn't be a while, but that is rather brilliant. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I met up with broadcaster and writer, Claire Balding. And yes, Raymond, I know, host of crafts. Claire took us to West London's Chiswick House and Gardens,

and it was so fascinating and moving, hearing what a huge impact dogs have had on her life. She very sadly lost her to bet and terry. Archer a few years ago, but she's channeled that into a lovely tribute by writing a book, Arl of Dogs, which is all about our unique relationship with dogs. It's a fabulous read, and Claire is a fabulous person to go for a walk with, partly because she's brilliant company, but also I've never seen Raymond being that obedient. He was genuinely looking at me as if to say, see, she makes me want to be a better dog. I so hope you enjoy our chat. Do remember to

follow us and do keep listening every week, I'll hand over now to the woman herself. Here's Claire and Raymond. Look at you, you lovely little mover. Oh, thanks, Claire. I made an effort today. He is. Oh, sorry, not you. Raymond, you are such a, gosh, you like a little dressage pony.

Look at you pointing your toe. And do you ever get him cut really short for the winter just so the long hair doesn't get wet? He is a lot of grooming. Yeah. do exactly in the summer when it's kind of extreme seasons yes oh Raymond so this is where we walked Archie every day and had a gang of mates who would meet up the cafe never used to be so smart there was a really you know run down little shed that faced completely the wrong way so face north and it was always really cold and they've rebuilt the

cafe and quite rightly put all the seating area out on the south side so in case you hadn't worked it out already. I'm so excited to have this woman on walking the dog. I'm with the very wonderful Claire Balding. We're at Chiswick House in West London and I've brought Raymond along. Hello. And we've just run into a... Hello. Hi there, morning. Hello. He's a shitsy. He's a shitsy. What happened to you on the other Archie, oh he's no longer with us, I'm afraid. And I'm waiting and plotting and looking for the next. Well, this isn't yours there.

No, no, no, no, yeah. This is Raymond. Raymond's my new friend. I like it. Nice to meet you. So Claire, this was where you would walk. Archie, your dog who, really sadly you lost a few years back. Yeah, so he was 15 and a half.

And he had a fantastic life and he made, and this is the wonderful thing about dogs, and you know this and everybody, you know, will know it who walks their dogs in a park. Your dog makes friends for you because your dog will go up to other dogs and say, hello. And some dogs will go, yeah, get lost. And others will go, hello back. The lovely waterfall here running into the big lake. So it's really nicely landscaped. It's a great place. Claire, I feel like you're trying to sell it to me. But, you know, every day we meet up with mates here and, you know, that's how our group of London friends was formed. So everybody, you know, the eldest is 80 something.

The youngest is probably me, actually, but everybody comes from different backgrounds, different work experience, as it were, different lives. And we're all still mates, 20, so, you know, nearly 20 years later. And Archie came into your life, who's a Tibetan terrier? Tibetan terrier, yeah. His grandfather won crafts. The rather wonderfully named Fabulous Willie, which I think, in fact I know, that they did. The breeders did that deliberately because,

you know when you're showing a dog, they talk about the handler. So so-and-so is handling, yes. finished the sentence. It took me a while, but that is rather brilliant. And it was when you... And that was Archie's grandfather, fabulous, willie. So if you want to let Raymond off, you can if he's... Let's see, Ray.

Good boy, Raymond. I'm going to say, Clare, he's better on grass. Mm-hmm. We'll come out the end of this path on to grass. Come on, Raymond, good boy. There we go. So go on, so when you met Alice, was that a... Yeah.

Can we get a dog? That was a big thing. Pretty quickly, I was very keen to get a dog, yeah. Yeah. And I knew she had had actually a Shih Tzu in her former life. So I knew that she could do the dog thing. Yeah, but you know what it's like when you're in your 20s and 30s, life is so busy and you're constantly, you know, you're working hard. Yeah. And it's not always.

And it's not a case of it not always being easy. I think it's not easy or difficult. It's whether it's right for a dog. And we needed to be somewhere settled, you know, with a garden, which I didn't have till that point until we got together. So I couldn't have done it sooner. And also, because Alice worked shift work at that time for Radio 4, actually our lives dovetail quite well.

We might not have seen much of each other, but we saw a lot of the dog. So one of us was always home. We never once had to use a dog walker. Yeah. And that's amazing actually. And then when she left Radio 4 she could decide, you know, a bit more when and what she wanted to do. And I tend to be quite busy in the summer, or very busy in the summer, and less so autumn winter. So when I'm writing, obviously, you know, getting out and going for a walk, preferably with a dog, is part of my daily routine and actually quite an important part of the creative process.

I need to walk to help me cogitate. Oh look, he's gone straight through that muddy puddle. What's happening? I tell you what's happening. This is like a transformation. I'll tell you what's happening, Cleve Holding. He's with you and he wants to impress you. He's going, come on, I can do this.

Watch me. I'm a solid muddy dog. Good boy. So that must have been so heartbreaking when you lost. Archie though, so sorry you had to go through that. And actually, do you know, well everyone does, everyone who has a dog is going to go through that. And if you're, I don't know, what do you, you know, how are you choosing? Our first, we had a puppy before Archie.

We had a really sweet white, little pure white Tibetan Terrier puppy and he got killed on the road outside our house. And it was the shock of that. I still sometimes lie in bed at night and I remember because I saw it. And it was just really bad luck. He followed me back out of the door and I hadn't shut the gate properly. And a car and a car never came down that road. We lived in a really quiet road then. And a car was coming down way too fast and it was just all of that accident of timing. And that was such a huge shock. With Archie, it was the opposite because we had to make the decision to have him put down. and then know for three days before it happened that it was going to happen.

So that sort of, we'll go over there and then. You know, that's awful because you kind of, you know, we were both very upset and we kept crying and he doesn't know why we're crying. So that, I don't know what, well, you know, it's pretty awful either way, but what you get in between is the most, joyful life-enhancing addition to your family and so I'd rather have that yeah and the pains the price you pay I mean gosh I guess if you're super lucky your dog dies in its sleep at the age of 17 and having had a wonderful life but they do go through

obviously I met someone the other day whose dog had terrible arthritis and we were talking about that and the knowledge that your dog is living in pain and they're good at covering pain. Yeah. And that's a hard thing, you know, how do you, who are you keeping the dog alive for because you're not always doing it for the dog, right? You're doing it for you. You think you're doing it for them, but if you can't explain, I do think you've constantly got to ask yourself, who am I doing this for? Your dad said something really lovely to you about, you know, the inevitability of having to say goodbye to dogs. He said the thing, and this is when Percy got

killed he said you can't replace the dog but you can fill the whole they've left which you can't obviously with a person um and so actually when percy got killed we got archie very quickly because we couldn't bear it couldn't bear coming down to the kitchen and you know all this sort of dog paraphernalia that we got because percy was our first dog was sitting there and i just couldn't bear it so yeah we went back to the same readers and that's when we got Archie. And he, I mean, you know, he did live a very full and long life. Lots of people didn't like Archie.

My parents included, I think. Lucy, who was my ramblings producer, she didn't like him. Well, he was not easy and he wasn't, you know, he'd have a snap. If you, if you try, he didn't take authority well. He didn't, um, we'll go around the side of the pond. So there's this really beautiful, do you see the art? Bridge. Oh, I love this. Yes. And there's a little island here. So pretty, isn't it? Lots of herons around. Come on Raymond. He sniffs a lot on walks, Claire. Yeah, so he should. Is that okay, do you think?

Yes. That's him chatting. That's him going, my word, stimulation. And actually in the book, I think, good boy, look at him galloping towards us. Hey, it was a good fella. Um, so, so the purpose behind writing the book partly to look for what would be our next dog but also just so I could hang out with dogs people really I mean that's that you know have a reason for doing so go and find be able to ring somebody up like like dogs for good or whatever and say look I'm writing this book can I come and spend the day watching puppy training and they say yes because you're writing a book so I knew what you were up to yeah I had your number and you and it was lovely

It was great to be able to do that. And anyway, one of the things I really learnt was the difference between exercise and stimulation and how much certain breeds need stimulation. So what Raymond's doing now, this is massively stimulating for him. Because loads of different smells, lots of dogs come in this park. It's a new environment. He's meeting different people as well, different sounds. You know, that's for him.

He'll be exhausted tonight. Oh, thank God. And as you point out in the book, there's really interesting information like this thing about dogs being able to smell. What is it, Claire? It's a teaspoon of sugar or something. Yeah, in an Olympic-sized swimming pool. Yeah. So that's how strong their olfactory receptors are, how incredibly highly tuned they are. Which is why they can smell not just drugs and cash and explosives and find bodies in a... after an earthquake but also they can smell cancer they can smell parkinson's they can they know

when you're having a sugar low if you're if you're diabetic or a sugar high they can predict the onset of a of a epileptic episode anxiety you know that kind of thing they are massively highly tuned and it's and you know some charities and organizations have trained dogs specifically to do things. So and actually if you think about it army dogs, police dogs, all that is again training them for a specific task and dogs want to help they want a job. A lot of breeds and a lot of well, Raymond says, I'm your co-presenter. Would you just wait for me? I'm on my way. You want a job, don't you Raymond?

Yeah, I want to go back because you talk about this in Isle of Dogs and also in your book, My animals and other family, which I love and everyone loved. It won awards and was a bestseller. I want to go back to your history, your family history with dogs because it would take the entire podcast to name every single dog you had. Because your family were kind of wild about dogs, weren't they? That was so much a big part of your family structure. Yes.

So they mainly had boxes and lurchers and my brother still has boxes and my mum still got a boxer. And my parents morning and my parents had a lurcher until earlier this year. What's that one Claire? Now that looked to me like a larger form of it's a terrier and it could be it's bigger than a Welsh terrier. I'm just going to look up a Lucas terrier because somebody was recommending Lucas terrier to me. So I just said to Claire two seconds ago, what do you think that dog is? And she's... Now looking up.

Yeah. Because it's black, tightly curled. Could be a Kerry blue without the... Because that's got the... Do you think? Oh yes, I think that. It's got a slight... Didn't have the grooming like that.

The terrier, yeah, I think you're right. You see, that tells me a lot about you. Uh-huh. Is that you're quite... You need to know. Oh yeah. Are you quite like that? You're quite...

Oh yes. I need to see something through to completion. Yes. And I love knowledge, I love facts. So anything I do, whether it's sport or dogs or, you know, a royal event or there's loads of homework to be done. For the Queen's Platinum Jubilee procession, which I was commentating on, which was that massive event, came up the mall, thousands of people in it, different floats, all. quite fun but but chaotic I got sent a document from the researcher who was terrific it was 400 pages long and I read it and I went back to him on a couple of

things and said I think this I can I just double check this can I just and he went you've you've read it all I said yes and he went wow I said yes but surely that's that's what that's what you meant me to do anyway we then condensed it down to about 10 pages so that I could have in the all that the procession was happening. I just had bullet points on each moment. He was great actually because he was sitting alongside me and would point at things when we suddenly got these dancers

thinking, okay, now which ones are these? But yeah, it's fun. I like, you know, it's like constantly being at school, isn't it? Yeah. But I get to do my favourite subjects because I'm picking them all the time. And you grew up with, as you say, your mother loved boxers. Yeah. And I feel like the lurk,

The lurchers were more your dad's thing. Oh, very much so, yeah. I mean, and actually, because the lurches is super fast, because they've got, you know, greyhant in them, if one of the horses could out, you know, could basically leave the lurcher in its wake, then you knew you had a fast horse on your hands. Because over a short distance, a furlong or so,

they don't stay, really, they won't go a full half mile, but if they joined in the last furlong, and the racehorse could burn them off, Good. And, and... Had a good one. Your mum's first boxer, Candy. Yes.

I feel like Candy was a lot more than just a dog to you. Yeah, yeah. There's a sweet picture of me as a baby lying alongside Candy. And that, I think, shows that, you know, Candy very much thought she was my... Look at this bit. See the pond and the temple? Is that a folly or something? Yeah, it's all very capability brand. Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it?

kind of suffering. Isn't it? Very Peter Green right. Yeah. Candy was a huge part of your childhood, wasn't she? Yeah, I think Candy thought she was the nanny. And I think I thought she was my mother because that's what I'm looking at. So, hey, why not?

And yeah, I think I say in the book, you know, she was my one and only companion. Until my brother was born, Candy was it for me. She was my world. And we had, she had a few litters of puppies and we kept one of her puppies who then became my dog and she was called Flossie. But mum always says she wasn't as much of a character as candy. I have to mention your grandmother because she's the most hilarious woman. Oh yes. What I loved is that I actually think you were just writing honestly about families and I actually think you were quite early to the party with that.

Now everyone is honest about the messiness of the... I think back then people were still sort of... Being polite about... Yeah. And you were just very honest and I laughed. I thought, I came away from that thinking, oh, finally a family that feels a bit like mine in all its messed up fabulousness.

Well, I think what I was honest about was grandma didn't really like me. And she didn't. I mean, you know... Now, and that... And I didn't feel... Because grandma had died, so I'm not sure I could have written that book. Grandma was still alive. She'd died, so I could be pretty open about this is what I saw and how I saw it.

She adored my brother. And fair do is he was much sweeter than me. I mean, he was a really sweet little boy and easier to love. And I was tricky and had an opinion and answered back and ask questions. And I was just a bit of a pain. Look at this little Jack Russell. Isn't that sweet? You weren't what was expected of a woman from her generation. No, so grandma wouldn't let, my mother got really good A-level grades, and all her brothers went to Cambridge. And my grandmother wouldn't let her go to university. She said, I will not have a blue stocking for a daughter.

So I think in my mother's head, I was going to get the opportunity, that certainly the educational opportunity she hadn't had. So, yeah. I feel you probably did have the life that your mother was obviously a very bright woman and I wonder if you... No, I don't know that because I think mum, you know, my mother's still very young

and she's 174. She's had a... She is having a terrific life she wanted in many ways. So, no, I don't think that. I just think... I've certainly had the life I would choose. Yeah, that's the point. And I love it because I'm constantly stimulated I do loads of really different things you know I look in the diary

okay today doing the podcast first thing got meeting with my head of BBC sport I've got a meeting about the festival of remembrance we're going out with friends tonight tomorrow I'm doing a book signing in Stowe on the World then I'm having lunch to my goddaughter then I'm doing a photo shoot then I'm seeing my dad because it's his birthday so how many days is this isn't clever then then Wednesday I'm doing a voiceover in the morning and then I'm going up to Manchester hello little one Hey there. Jack Russell?

She's lovely. They're cracking dogs, I think. Look, and she's going to really learn to walk on the lead. Cloud little tail, constantly wagging. Going on a dog walk with Claire Baldwin. It's like watching crafts. It's the most gripping thing she does. She's got to learn to walk on the lead.

And it's a minute, I feel honestly, I'd watch this. Yeah, I found reading. in the Isle of Dogs and in your first book just about your relationship with animals. I find it really touching how important they've been to you and how I kind of feel as well because your father was obviously a racehorse trainer and not just any racehorse trainer. I mean he was the racehorse trainer really, wasn't he? Well he wasn't Henry Cecil. Well no but he trained the Queen's racehorse season and I feel

You grew up, obviously, when you first started riding, that just must have felt very natural. That was never, will I do this or will I not? You would just put on a horse presumably when you were very young. Absolutely. Stuck on the pony. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I had the perfect upbringing for a kid who loves rolling around in the mud. You know, I just had this very rural, feral childhood. That's what your grandmother called. It is.

And my brother and I would, you know, hang out and take ourselves off to the barn and, you know, swing like Tarzan from a rope until he burnt his hands and let go and break his leg. That was a shame. Anyway, but, you know, we'll play with the puppies or paint the puppy shed and paint each other. That wasn't clever. But we just got on with living, living. And it was fantastic. And you had a Shetland pony called Valkyrie, who was given to you by the Queen.

So yeah, when I was born, it was just good timing really because... It was just good timing. Because Prince Edward had finished, right, you know, he moved on to slightly bigger ponies, and Valky needed a home that could cope with her sort of various issues. She had sweet itch and she had had laminitis so she needed to go somewhere but they knew what they were doing and yeah she taught me to ride she taught Andrew to ride she had two foals while she was with us oh she lived with her I mean you know she lived with us for the rest of her life she lived her she was about 30 and the queen would come and inspect her racehorses and at the end of the

row of gleaming thoroughbred so there'd be this little fat hairy shetland which always made her laugh so that was good she I really like the sound of the queen from when you've talked about her that you do a brilliant, I'm not even going to call it an impression of her, it's a tribute, because it's very respectful and lovely. And she... Well, I talk about her corgis as well in the book and about the history of the royal family and dogs,

which is really interesting because, as you know, the King Charles Spaniel and the King Charles Cavalier Spaniel, both named after monarchs. Queen Elizabeth I was very keen on her dogs. There would have been hunting dogs sort of big, impressive deer hound types for earlier monarchs, but Queen Victoria is the one who really shook it up in terms of the variety breeds that she had. And partly that was due to her love of dogs and she had a spaniel very early on in life who she adored. As her, as the empire was spreading,

so her subjects would come back with trophies and they knew she loved dogs. So they'd bring dogs from all over the world. So she had truffle dogs and Bedouin dogs and Canadian Eskimo dogs and she had a Pekinese looted from the Royal Palace in Peking. We can go this way so we don't have to go through the puddle. Isn't this some conservatory fantastic? So they have camellias in here in the spring. It's lovely. And you were saying you got married here. Yeah, at the where we had our party at the house. Yeah. Can I let him off the lead here? Do you think? Oh yeah. Don't worry about it. I get that feeling with you, Claire, that you know, you're the person that I'd say,

do you think it's all right if we do this? And if you said it was okay, I'd think it was because that's the head girl in you, which you were head girl. Yes, but I got into trouble first. So when I go back and speak at my school and they think I'm going to talk all about this, she was a girl, etc. And I start off by saying yes, but what happened in my, the first time of my second year, and they're all sitting there looking at and I said, I got suspended.

And the teachers go, I'm here to tell you, you don't have to be defined by the worst mistake you make in your life. You can turn this around. Well, I think that's what's so interesting about you is that if you looked at your trajectory, superficially on a CV, you'd see father was the, you know, Queen's trainer, making it sound like it like he was working out with her. The Queen's personal trainer. Pilates instructor.

The Queen's racehorse trainer. You were head girl. You were president of the Cambridge Union. Now a superficial reading of that, I'd think, oh she's that girl. We'd say pathetic overachiever. No, I'd say, oh no, that woman, you know, she's going to make you feel very inadequate. She's one of those girls. There were no bumps in the road.

Everything was perfect. And of course, actually, I feel there was a point in your life. when you really chose to turn everything around, didn't you? I'm talking about shoplifting gate. Oh, yeah, right, yeah. So I was only 10 when that happened. But it's pretty instructive in life to know when you go through something that is so shameful

and you sort of know why you did it because you were trying to impress other people and be part of a gang. And I understand peer pressure. I get it. I think that's the moment when I thought, right, fitting in is never going to suit me. I'm going to get into trouble if I try and fit in,

whereas I think most people think I'll stay out of trouble if I fit in. And that's maybe, if I analyze myself, which I very rarely do, but that's maybe I look at that and go, right, that's the moment where I thought, I'm going to be different, I am different, live with it, and try and make the best of it.

And one of the analogies that I would use is, I think as people, and particularly through our teenage years and sometimes right into our 20s, we aren't half obsessed with the selfie in every sense, right? We're constantly thinking, when we get up in the morning, what will I wear? What will they think of me? How am I going to fit into this situation?

Me, me, me, me, me. And actually, if you just flip that camera around and go, God, look at the light coming through those leaves. Look at the smile on people's faces. Look at that dog. Look at that sporting event. Look at this, look at that art, listen to that music. And you walk into a room not thinking,

how am I fitting in here, but who's interesting here? Who can I speak to? Who am I gonna learn from? It's so releasing and I find that to be very helpful for me. And because I cover a lot of events where I am looking at it and commentating about it or presenting it or having to react to it, it's just a reset in the brain.

But it's really helpful for me and my happiness. Yeah. Because I'm not so obsessed with how do I look in this situation? Because there's so much that's much more interesting out there. But it's so interesting that you say that because something that's often been said about you, and this was particularly said of you after the 2012 Olympics, is that you know, your forensic, you know your staff. And I think that's so interesting,

what you said about focusing. It's kind of living in the present, isn't it? So you're focusing on what you're doing. And what you're never doing when you're doing something like the Olympics is, what does my voice sound like? Does that sound funny? Do I look nice? Does my makeup look okay? You know, all that stuff. I probably should worry a bit more about that, but I don't. Yeah. But that's why you sound so in control and interested in your subject.

I think lots of people do do that and you know I'm lucky I work in an industry where there are so many talented commentators, pundits, presenters and we all, everyone brings something different to the table and to the party so you're constantly learning from listening to other people. My, you know, I approach it like I would if I was watching it at home. What do I want to know? What can I, what can Chris Hoy or Mark Foster or Becky Adlington? What can they tell me here? that adds to not how much do I know and how can I show everyone how clever I am but but what do I need what do we all need to know that will enhance our understanding and therefore our enjoyment of this bizarre Madison race that's going to go off for 250 laps or something you know you um you were a really good jockey Claire won't you no I was I was a decent amateur excuse me you beat the Prince Princess Royal.

Yeah, but that's the horse, not me, isn't it? Come on. No, I was a decent amateur jockey for a few seasons. I, you know, was not the right build for it and therefore had to work extremely hard. Look at these aces, aren't they pretty? And see how the lights catching up. They're like gorgeous. Oh, they're beautiful.

When I see trees like that, Claire, I understand why sort of artists get inspired. Oh, totally. Don't you? I went to, when I was in, um, I was in Glasgow. for the World Cycling Championships. And the Banksy exhibition was on. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah.

What was it like? So good. So interesting. So clever, so visionary. So now I look at things going, oh, what would Banksy do here? Look at that sundown, Raymond. What do you think?

Have you had a nice time? Yes. It's mainly what it's about if you've had a nice time to survive. You're very good with animals, aren't you? Why do you think that is? I think because I've grew up with them. I used to want to be, I wanted to be Dr. Doolittle, I wanted to understand what they said. One of my favourite books when I was young was Olga de Polga by Michael Bond, you know, at

Paddington. And there's a really, so Olga de Polga is a guinea pig. And there's one point at which Olga de Polga can speak at midnight only for like a minute. And she just says, I love you. Yes, Raymond. and that's what you would say. If you could speak, you'd just say, I love you. This podcast is sponsored by Pet Plan,

who help keep the nation's dogs happy and healthy. There was so much to think about when I got my dog, Raymond, toilet training, grooming, food, and just how many belly rubs can one woman reasonably be expected to give to a Shih Tzu every day. But one thing I've never had to worry about is paying for veterinary care because I decided to insure Raymond with Pet Plan,

who are the UK's number one pet insurance provider. Oh, don't get jealous. Lace Raymond, of course you're still my number one. Just a tad on the high-maintenance side. Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet plan is a trading name of Allian's insurance PLC. When you say you weren't that good as a jockey... Oh, I was all right, listen.

You were? No, I had... I was very relaxed in a race. I was very calm. I could see gaps. I could judge pace. I wasn't strong in a finish. I was dreadful.

But, you know, you know, as no Rachel Blackmore, that's not you know there are standards and I was an all right amateur that's all and I and I rode some good horses and horses ran for me which was nice you know some horses suddenly started winning races that happened for a long time and you couldn't win money as an amateur obviously but they had a couple of really good series that were sponsored and one of them you could win a car and I won my first car I won my first car is it an austin lecro or no it's a brand new mini Red Mini. And I won my weight in champagne. Now that was a result because I was significantly heavier than anyone else. Do you know that? I got a lot of champagne. Did that put you, that, did that put you off? Because that whole weight thing.

Yeah, you weigh yourself a lot. Yeah. You're, you are governed by that, aren't you, for your entire career? I'm reading Gabby Logan's book at the moment. And there's loads of things you don't know. And she was a rhythmic gymnast. And, you know, she says very early on, I think she had a pretty unhealthy relationship. with food and you know she needed to be a certain shape rather than whereas I needed to be a specific weight it's really interesting as well because I get the sense there was this idea in your family that first first pass the post yes it was that or nothing and I I understand that because if you grow up in a sporting environment there's no point you can't not have that attitude and I I think that's interesting because I can see how, why that's translated to be you being so good in a live environment, that you kind of thrive on that.

I like the unpredictability of live. I love it when everything starts to go wrong in the program. And the running order is ripped up. I really enjoy chaos, actually. I mean, not enough. Do you watch The Morning Show? I love it. I'm not as much of a chaos fiend as Corey.

who just thrives off that. But I quite enjoy it. I kind of go, right, this is where I, you know, earn the money. And my brain slows down. And that, I think, is a legacy of having ridden in races that actually when you're under pressure, the whole Clive Woodward think clearly under pressure,

you know, come up here, Raymond. Yes, darling, all right. You sit here, all right? Because that's warmer than the stone. Yeah. you know, that your brain can slow down and you can think really logically in the most stressful situations and I quite enjoy that. But that means you must be very good in advice. I'm good at logistics and I'm good at practical, you know, right, let's do this.

I'll take you here. I'll make this happen. You have, you know, I can do that. And I quite like helping people out in that sense. I'm not probably as good as an emotional support. Alice would be better at that. She's very good at emotional support. She can give people a hug at the right time. I just think she's much more emotionally mature than I am. If I went to my mother in an emotional state,

she would say either pull yourself together or let's take the dogs for a walk and we'd all be better by the time we'd take the dogs for a walk. We don't have to talk about this. Do we have to talk about this? That's what she would say. Why do we have to talk about this? Why is everyone talking about the menopause now? I mean, honestly, we didn't talk about it.

Just get on with it. Stuff and nonsense. But you know, it's interesting because I went to, I felt a similar thing to you, just that sense of difference. I went to a posh girls' school and I felt not accepted, because my parents were sort of media,

my dad was in, to work with BBC, and my mum was an actor. But we didn't have a, money and so I get that totally and I completely identified yes we had the money to go to posh school because mr. Mellon who owned Mill Reef had set up a trust fund but what my parents didn't have was the money to keep up so no I couldn't go on the school skiing holiday and I couldn't come with a suitcase full of new clothes every term to wear at weekends I couldn't have that the new blazer I was going to get it secondhand from and that's not

poor but it's just not it's a not extravagant at all ever and also not I think in many ways just not able to and and I do think they probably as much my father ever thought about these things which I'm not sure he did but mum will have thought well it's good for you you can't have everything why should everything be shining new no there are things you shouldn't have and you know wait for that and you know don't ever fly business class because it'll spoil you. It'll spoil you for life. It's like, oh, okay, but what if I want to fly business class, actually? I mean, if you get an upgrade, I mean, that's different. Why would you pay for it? Well, because it's better, my. It's just better. Does that leave you with a slight hangover,

though, a feeling slight? I feel I'm terrible at spending money. Really terrible. Alice has to make me, absolutely make me. And does that, you know, you know, And eventually I'll say, no, you're right, you're right. We should have gone for that better room and such, such hotel. But I will quite often take a bus back. I quite like taking the bus. So I, you know, she'll say, why didn't you get a cab back from certain? I said, oh, because the 94 bus goes direct.

And I can sit on the top floor of the bus, front left. To me, that's business class. I can look in everybody's houses. And I get a phone signal the whole way so I can actually sit and do my work. I can answer my emails. I don't, you know, and I quite enjoy it. But that is a hangover from your family experience. Oh, totally. Yeah.

And I don't know what you call it because my mother was not a Presbyterian, but it's that sort of, you know, she's got very strong Protestant work ethic and doesn't believe in being flash and showy. I mean, really doesn't believe in it. So she's very happy to take coats from me that, you know, I say, here, mum, have this one. I've worn it a few times on telly, you can have it. And Shrey happy to do that, but she wouldn't buy one.

God no. But they must be so proud of you now, your parents, Claire. Where dad suddenly doesn't really, he's unfortunately got pretty advanced dementia. So, but he said to everyone in the home, if I go and see, do you recognise her? This one, she's famous, she's famous and it's so, it's excruciating, especially for my mother, who's like literally the worst thing in the world to be is famous. I mean, the second worst thing in the world to me is extravagant.

Oh my God, what will people think? You'll never guess. It's Claire's hemus. I think they whisper it. It's brought great shame on the family. We've never recovered. Never recovered. Why does she have to show up so much?

She's presenting, oh no. That would have been bad. I remember I found a letter after my mother died, and I found a letter. and it said emmy is a dreadful show-off and do you know the fact that i remember that it's like i've never forgotten it and what fast for the bone but it fascinated me that that was a bad thing and it's interesting when you're talking about your mum i can imagine that would have been a bad thing as well but also the constant you're so competitive yeah like that because it's a

bad thing because it's not feminine it's right for hundred to be competitive as he should be you know but I shouldn't be in it. And yeah. Listen, it makes me laugh because what I do, and I have an American cousin who needs a bit of, you know, a bit of help. That's from your dad's side, is it? Yeah. And I said my, one of my things that really helps me is to think everything is copy.

The classic Nora Ephra on line, everything is copy. So anything like that that is said, you, you turn it into a story. I talk to kids about this. Turn it into a story because you own. it then it's your narrative and make it funny because when you can laugh at it it doesn't hurt you anymore and actually that's what i really felt with your memoir and i love your writing i love this with all of dogs and all that whenever you tell those sort of stories i think there is it's that difference between autobiography and memoirs that autobiography is what happened and memoir is how you felt

when it happened and what you did with what happened and i look at what you did and that competitive spirit you've channeled into everything that you've done really positively, haven't you? Well, I think I know I need to be tested and that's good and it's good for me. But I think what I have hopefully learnt is empathy and I think I probably didn't have that. Maybe lots of people don't in their teens and their 20s. I think I just thought, right, this is me ploughing my way through and I must keep going. And now with that slightly broader vision of look around you, I am very sensitive to how other. people are getting on and actually I really enjoy that so if I'm working with someone

who's never done an Olympics before I'll channel all my energy into making their experience good and that helps me but it also gives me real pleasure to watch them start to enjoy it and get better Alice says I constantly offer career advice unsolicited career advice I said no occasionally people do ask me actually said yeah but you'll offer it anyway yes yes I will but you know what that doesn't surprise me because I'm telling you about your life now but when you were at school, there was this point when you turned things around and you'd had a sort of outward bound outdoors activity. It was one of those things that they send you on. And you came back didn't you and you were then made head of house and the comment that was given was not because

of your achievements. It was how you helped and inspired everyone else. But the funniest thing, okay so on that outward bound we were split into alphabetical. So my friend Jerry, who's an A, she was Jerry Avenor. She was, she was starting. She was frightened. She was frightened. height and I was trying to get her from one tree to the next thing come on Jerry you can do it on a wire you can do it you can do it just one foot and just keep looking at me keep looking at me and she goes Claire fuck off! It's just like that classic would you stop trying to help me and just shut up but yeah I was I was a good chibia and if not wanted and I think that's the that's the common theme here I'll help people

Well, even if they don't want it, there's a very funny sketch. Tracy Ellman's done this really funny sketch of me. And it's that. It's constantly trying to do other people's jobs. And it's so me. Like it had to have been informed by someone who knew me. I'll do that. I'll make that cup of coffee.

No, let me do that. I'll drive the car. You're the driver, but I'll take the car. Don't you worry? You have a rest. That really, yeah. So I'm actually just really annoyed. Well, Alice, your partner says you're, you are a backseat driver.

I mean, she didn't call me this morning and say, bitch about you and say Claire is such a backseat driver. But I have heard her go on record. I think she might say it in Isle of Dogs, because you hand over the reins to her at one point. Are you a backseat driver when it comes to life then? Where's that from? Oh, when it comes to life, I don't know.

No, with the car, it's just because she doesn't see gaps and she doesn't have the instinct to go from it. If you're going to go, go. I was doing this lovely series this summer about Rivers for Channel 5 and we had a fantastic team. I really enjoyed it and a production company called 2-4 anyway I wasn't driving and I won't name names but but the person who was was a really you know one of them was quite inexperienced and a bit nervous gets to a roundabout hesitating hesitating and I went just if you're going to go go so he now uses that in life

all the time as Claire would say if you're going to go go that would scare me though go go I would think I would feel like your horse I'd feel like milriek well that's the travel I said I do do that a bit so I'm going go on Gap on the left and I point and and Alice's just stop it do you know what's really interesting and this touches on the book as well is that I get the impression which is what I find really touching about your family life is that your dad for example who had this amazing relationship with horses obviously and this affinity with them and this understanding and empathy of them. That was a channel for his emotions and I I can I think that's healthy. I can

see that because at least he was channeling it. A lot of people from that generation and from that world wouldn't channel it at all. I think it made me understand your your family and why you've turned out the way that you have which seems to be quite a good egg. That's very kind of you'd say so. What do you think you've, what? What do you think you've, what No, I'm just like, you're a massive show-op. Are you a show-off? Our mothers would go, God, it's just dreadful, isn't it? But if your mother was an actress, then come on.

So Alice was an actress, and I remember when I first introduced her to my mother, I could see her do that thing of, oh, an actress. What's wrong with that? I was like really impressed. But yes. It's a bit the king's mistress, isn't it? Yes, isn't it? funny that snobbery about acting.

Do you want to go that for him? That's how they would have seen it? All right, sweetie. But were they lovely about it? Because I am. Oh, they adore Alice. Yeah, yeah, they do. And actually my father was particularly impressed with her golfing

skill so he could finally play golf against someone who was actually better than him. And my nephew Toby is rather a good golfer. The kids generally are good golfers. But Toby loves playing with Alice because she teaches them how to do it properly. Yeah, very sweet. you um that as i say you after you left cambridge you weren't going to be a be a presenter originally were you and you know i wanted to be a writer how did you make that move to presenting because i know you became a you were a trainee at the bbc weren't you yeah what made you

think oh this is what i want to do was it the racing that led you there timing was everything and five live was just starting as a radio station so before that there wasn't a speech network and that had kind of, you know, all sorts of programmes that still exist, but a bit of drama, but it didn't have rolling news. The rolling news concept is very recent, and sport being such a big part of that is, you know, it's only 25 years old or something. So my timing was very good. My, the chance that I was offered from a guy called Cornelius Isitt, who was the BBC's racing correspondent, was entirely based on the pitch of my voice, that he said, well, if you can write and if your voice sounds okay,

then why don't you try radio? So the big thing in life, I think, is if you're offered those opportunities, it is still down to you whether you say yes or not. So people talk about luck and they say, oh, I was lucky. The bit that's not lucky is the fact that you said yes. That's not luck, that's you. So any job, when you're offered it, you know, right, do I take this chance or not? And you might think of all the things that are wrong with it.

And quite often in our line of work, it doesn't pay enough. And it's going to be, you know, inconvenient. And you might be working hours that you don't appreciate. I mean, I worked full night shifts for a while. And they're pretty awful, to be honest. I worked to have Christmas. I worked over missed weddings, you know, friends wedding, all of that. But that was the choice I made.

That's what I wanted to do. And now I'm in a position where I can. choose a bit more not to have to get up early in the mornings which I don't like. Funny isn't it coming from a world in which I always got up early I don't like working in the morning. I am not a great functioner at between really oh until after nine o'clock. See I would have thought you were a couple of cups of coffee and and then I'm fine and I like late night so I like doing the I like doing the evening highlights at the Olympics because I like the quick reaction to things that have

happened rather than the prediction of what's going to happen. But that's interesting. That's interesting though because I think you also, and I think women have often been conditioned to think, I'm not trained for this, I can't do it. I think men have been more encouraged to think, well, I'll learn as I go. I'll say yes and then, you know, and that's changing. I'm working on a theory and I'd be interested in what you think, that true equality is actually when we're all allowed to be average.

That, you know, people think equality is about women being offered. you know, chances at the top of table. Exceptional women still are, exceptional women are still overperforming massively. But when are you allowed to just be average? And it's not, I'm not saying I want to be average. I don't want to be average. But just like, there are a lot of, you know,

I like men. I don't want to live with one, but I like them. And I like working with them. But I've worked with enough to know. There are a lot of average men who are in jobs that they get rewarded supremely well for. And it just seems to me that women are either in the exceptional bracket or they've got the menial task where they're being massively underpaid. They're not in the middle section. Why aren't they?

That's what, I don't know how one fights for it. The right to be average. It's not really a slogan that works. But do you know what I'm saying? I don't know whether that is a good theory or not. But it makes sense to me that it just, the right to be just good, right? Just be good. Just be basically good.

And most women are over. performing to stay level with the average man. Raymond, you've got a little thing sticking on your tail. Can I just get it? Yes, darling. It's interesting as well, Claire. I imagine when you did the Olympics, was that quite frightening having all the attention suddenly?

Because you were, that's really when I remember suddenly, you know, it had, it just touched my mum. Something's really odd. I remember we were driving down to, we had a bit of a break between the Olympics and Paralympics, in Paris, Alice and I were driving down to Cornwall. And we stopped at the services on the A303. And Alice was filling up the car and I went in, no, other way around.

I was filling up the car and she went inside to pay. She came back out and she said, it's changed. Everyone in the service station and they, I think that's clever. That's clever, it's clever. And, and, you know, these kids then, I started talking these kids and we'd started talking all about sports and it was great. And I was just talking to him about what they'd enjoyed at the Olympic. and we got back in the car and she went, wow, this is really different.

She said it won't last, but it's different. But how do you deal with trolls? Do you ignore them? Yeah, I do actually. Yeah, I find that's pretty effective. I won't look at social media through the course of a major event. So mainly because I don't want to be distracted. And they might be really nice comments, but that can be just as, there we go, do you love me more now?

Good boy. I don't want to be distracted. by the good stuff either because you can't half get fall into a trap of believing the good publicity. So my rule is you can't believe the good stuff, so I didn't after London 2012. Because if you believe the good stuff, you have to believe the bad stuff and the bad stuff's horrible. So why would I bother? You know, Alice will tell me if I've done something wrong. I did something awful the other day. I did a terrible interview actually. What did you do? Well, I did two awful things. One was, I confused Mick Hucknell,

who was at a party I was at, with Michael Hutchins and I was a big an excess fan. So I said, and Michael Hutchins was there. Well, that would be a miracle. It's been dead for about 15 years. Anyway, the presenter didn't correct me. And I didn't realize until after I came off there. And I suddenly thought, I said Michael Hutchins. And I meant to say Mick Hucknell. Quite often do that.

Obviously, same letters and all that. And also, in the course of the interview, he was being very nice to me. And he said, oh, everybody loves you, something, something, something. And I said, oh, they wouldn't. Alice would say they wouldn't if they knew me. And she was sitting next door and she came. When I came out, she said, but I wouldn't say that. I always say you're the same.

She said, don't say that. That makes me sound like a real bitch. And she said, and I wouldn't say that. And I said, no, I know. I was just trying to be funny. Why was I doing that? But I am also quite good at going, nobody was listening. And quite often, they're not.

No one. Seriously, no one has sent me a message saying, you said Michael Hutchins. You didn't mean Michael Hutchins. He died in whatever year, you did die. But a lot of people are listening in your case. Well, they're not concentrated. One of the things I really respect about you is when I read that you turned down that proposal

because I think that took a lot of that you were dating a guy at the time. Oh sorry yes. Come on. Sorry, which proposal? No, you turned down a proposal and you were dating this guy who was in the army and he would have ticked a lot of the boxes. I can imagine myself at that age thinking, oh well I better do this. Oh yeah, it would have been very, um, it would have, they certainly would have, they wouldn't have said you're better.

than that they'd have said oh that's perfect what and did you just feel something was off it didn't no i didn't trust him so that's no i was quite right not to trust him you were right yeah funny enough i bumped into his ex-wife on the towpath a couple of years ago she said you dodged a bullet you seem like you're a very happy place in your life oh god i'm through i have the best life do you know as the kids say i'm living my best life you know seriously i'm I get to do something different every day. I'm constantly stimulated, so I'm like a dog, you know, wagging its tail the whole time. I get the adrenaline rush of live TV, but not all the time.

And we live a fat and I live with somebody I adore. So, you know, hey, what's not to love? And I have fantastic nibblings as well. But you made this, didn't you as well? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you make things happen.

There have been points in your life. where you didn't get into Cambridge originally. I think a lot of people would have thought, oh, okay, I'm going to slink away and go somewhere else. You thought, no, I'm going to try again. Yeah, I did keep trying, yes. I do. Alice always says, she says, when one door closes,

don't embarrass yourself by trying to open it, whereas I would constantly go, keep pushing, keep pushing, and find another door, find a window. She'd go, please don't embarrass yourself. She's a handle to her. you're a handle tugger and she's not. No. Would she say it's closed now? Yeah, it's closed. Walk away.

But it's work for you, hasn't it? It has. And we're a very good fit because I think one thing. Do you think it helps that you're very different, you and Alex? Oh God, yes. Impressively. You do gobble box together and? Yeah. That gets an amazing response, you know?

That is extraordinary for two minutes of telly every once in a while, because we're never on for longer than that. It is extraordinary. the reaction it gets and right across age groups and so diverse and you know but people constantly come up to me and say oh I love you on Gogglebox but your wife's much funnier than you yes I know somebody said to me that she's so much cooler than you are yes yes she is but you know what I think it's so positive as well that you guys are doing that and I can I'm not saying this is why you did it but I I think

what's happened as a result I think it's just to see you guys as a couple and it's Yeah. And we sat at home in our house on our sofa watching telly. Yeah. No, it does. It feels ridiculous to even be saying that. No, but a woman came out to me the other day at a book signing and she said from a 60 year old lesbian, she said, I'd like to say thank you. She said, because when I was young, we never saw. She said we had Katie Lang and Andrea Dawkins and that was it. Ellen's the one that made a big difference for me. Really? Oh yeah. When Ellen was on the front of Tolling magazine, I was in America at the time, actually. she got person of the year or whatever. It's like, my God, there's a, you know, a woman in

television who's out and it's not affecting her detrimentally. In fact, it's probably helping. And maybe this isn't something to be ashamed of. Maybe this is something to be proud of. And when you can flick that switch from shame to pride, it makes such a difference, but it also makes difference to other people because you're confident and happy in who you are. A, everyone wants to have you around, so we get advice to all sorts of things. And B, I think it makes a difference to other women in similar situations, that they go, oh, my relationship has not just validity, but it can be celebrated. This is something everybody can actually enjoy.

Oh, Claire. So I will need to ask you, what dog, Arl of Dogs, which is a brilliant book, and I found it, as I say, it's such a joyful, lovely, read and I just I learned so much about dogs because there's nothing you don't know about dogs. Have you started, part of it is a journey towards you and Alice possibly thinking of what dog to get. Where are you and Alice on that? Well where we are is that we've bought a new house and we're basically going to knock it down and build so that we have the perfect house for and and a protected space around it where the doors can be open. So, constantly,

Consequently, either puppy or, you know, new young dog or whatever, can get out all the time and the cats won't get either run over or kidnapped. So that's the plan. We're changing our whole life and moving away from this gorgeous area, but changing our whole life to suit the dog that will come in. Because we should say you've got two cats, you and Alice. You've got Eric. We've got Button, who is the mother of Eric. And Eric is very, very nervous. And I just, I am slightly worried about Eric and how he will adapt. But as long as he's got somewhere. he can go and hide, he'll be fine. Good name. You know, I think with little Raymond, he'd be fine,

so I don't think he could be intimidated by Raymond. What do you make of Raymond, Claire? I think he's great. I think he's got massive personality. I love him. Do you know what I like about him? And this is something you said in the book, is your dog, it tells you a lot about the owner.

Yes. And often there is something of the owner in it, that the owner wants to reveal about themselves, I think. And what I like about Raymond is that he defies expectation, is that I think people look at him and think he's a slightly Paris Hilton, floofy, snappy. I think people make assumptions about him. And actually he's quite a thoughtful, Zen,

sensitive, introverted, dog. Are we self-projecting? Yes, we are. Okay, good. Just checking. Oh, Claire, what are they? Are they cockers or springers? Cockers, yeah.

They're lovely, though, but my God, they've got muddy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Look at this pup. This is Emily's dog. This is Raymond. He's actually a chit-suit, but he looks like he might have a little bit of, you know, bit of Griffon-Brussela or something in him, doesn't he?

He's a good boy. He's very funny, though. Right. Thank you. Come on, Claire. Let's walk you back to where you have to be. I'm going to go down there and I'm going to go under the... And you're still doing Crofts, Claire. Oh, yes. Oh, what a gig that is. I love that. And hopefully, I think lost dogs found dogs, as we're calling it now, because as they realize that lost dogs live with Claire Boulding does in print look like lost dogs live with Claire Boulding, in which case they're not lost.

So, Channel 5, that is. And that'll come back in another form next year. I say another form. Yeah, we'll just make some tweaks. But essentially, it would be lovely to have a recurring series on dogs. because I loved Inkrafts, but that's four days a year, you know. I think there's space in the schedules for a bit more, a bit more dog love. And and dog advice and you know, go, Raymond, good boy. Run, run, run. Oh yeah, look at him go, he looks like a little flying carpet, don't you? Yes.

It sounds like you are okay with enjoy, does it, do you have to sort of force yourself like we were saying earlier to enjoy the spoils of your career and not think, oh. Yeah, I constantly feel guilty. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good lad. He hasn't had a poo. Not that I saw. Did he have one earlier? No, do you know what? He's a bit like you, Claire. Well, constipated. Bear with me. Bear with you. I bear with. He doesn't want to do it in public. He doesn't want to, you know. He's not a morning, Karen. Oh, right, I see. So he doesn't, he sometimes, he doesn't like eating early. Yes, Archie didn't wake up early.

Archie, no, God no. He didn't want to go for a walk early. No. It's been a genuine pleasure. Thank you. And I love your book, I Love Dogs, and I, which is out now, isn't it? And I really recommend, if you love dogs, you'll love it. If you don't, you'll love it. Raymond, are you going to get your own copy? And Claire, we should leave you and let you go Because you've got a busy day Are you going to say goodbye to Raymond? Yeah, bye-bye Raymond Let me go, let's just take that off as well

Let's give you a bit of grooming You're so sweet You're going to be tired Yes, bye-bye, bye-bye Oh, bye-bye Claire I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog We'd love it if you subscribed

and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts