Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Dom Joly (Part One)

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

This week Emily and Ray travel to Cheltenham for a walk with comedian, writer and broadcaster Dom Joly, joined by his two beautiful Labradors, Fitzgerald and Truman.Dom chats to Emily about his extraordinary life, from growing up in Beirut (and attending school with a certain Osama Bin Laden), to briefly working as a diplomat before pivoting into comedy. That decision led to the creation of the hugely popular Trigger Happy TV, which introduced the world to the unforgettable man with the enormous mobile phone and became one of the most iconic comedy shows of its era.Dom is currently celebrating 25 years of Trigger Happy TV with a brand new live show, packed with classic clips, behind-the-scenes stories and new material. The Trigger Happy TV Live - 25th Anniversary Tour kicks off in September and runs into next year. Tickets and details are available at https://domjoly.tv.Alongside his comedy work, Dom has also become a highly respected travel writer and presenter, with a series of brilliant books documenting his adventures around the world.Be warned, the language in this episode is fruitier than normal. Follow Emily:InstagramX Walking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Yes, it's not really walking the dog with Emily Dean, it's carrying the dog. It really is. Look at that, you spoilt bastard. He's got such a sweet little face. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I travel to Cheltenham to take a stroll with comedian and writer Dom Jolly and his two beautiful Labrador's Fitzgerald and Truman. I won't lie.

Dom's first reaction upon seeing Raymond was, what even is that? How long is he going to be able to walk a minute? Actually, Dom, it was at least four minutes. I counted, but I knew Raymond would eventually steal his heart, and in fact, I think it's fair to say, Dom became a little obsessed with Raymond, and we had the loveliest walk chatting about Dom's really fascinating life and career, from his childhood growing up in Beirut, where he attended the same school as Osma bin Laden.

I had questions, his brief career as a diplomat, and his decision to pivot into comedy which resulted in him creating and starring in the hugely popular TV show, Trigger Happy TV. which gifted us the unforgettable man with the enormous mobile phone. A character who became so iconic, people still regularly shout, Hello, I'm on the phone at Dom, 25 years later, even though he never actually said those words. And by the way, if you were a fan of that show,

you'll be thrilled to hear that Dom is currently celebrating the 25th anniversary of Trigger Happy TV with a live tour. There'll be clips and classic scenes from the show and lots of new material. The tour kicks off in September and runs through to next year, so do book your tickets now for the Trigger Happy TV live 25th anniversary tour at Dom jolly.tv. Dom has obviously gone on to enjoy a long career in TV,

fronting numerous shows and comedy projects, and he's also become a highly respected travel writer and presenter. He's written some really brilliant books about his travels around the world, so you should definitely check those out. I absolutely love getting to know Dom over our walk. I kind of knew he was going to be bright and funny, but he's also refreshingly honest about the whole entertainment and showbiz world. He strikes you as someone who clearly adores the creative side of it,

but he's never allowed himself to get swept up in it all. He also happens to have two of the most adorable Labradores I've ever met. And even if they did initially think Ray was some small bit of tumbleweed blowing across the countryside, I like to think they ended it thoroughly won over by their new best friend. Really hope you enjoy our walk. Here's Dom and Fitzgerald and Truman and Ray Ray. What the fuck is that? This is Raymond.

Hello Raymond. So Raymond's apparently coming for a walk with my boys. And they're just looking a bit upset. You don't like city dogs, do you? Because they're kind of a bit catty, aren't they? How long is Raymond going for a walk? Well, I'll have to carry him for large parts of it. Oh, do you?

Well, only because it's not fair to Truman and Fitzgerald. I mean, the joy of him, is that I could go to London with him. Like, you know, that I'd really love. Raymond, can I just establish something? Is he always Raymond? Yes. Never Ray.

Sometimes Ray. Because mine's Fitzgerald and he is Fitzgerald, but I kind of feel I'm diminishing him. So do I. Yeah. Is he Fitzgerald after F. Scott Fitzgerald? He is well done, yeah, yeah. So we have a theme for dog names, which is authors.

So I had Hux. I had Huxley, Truman Capote, Scott Fitzgerald. But my cats were professions. I haven't got cats now, so I had Colonel Mustard, Dr. Pepper, that kind of stuff. And then I had pigs that were kind of play on words. So I had Sir Francis and Sir Francis Bacon and stuff. I think pet names are the most, it's the best way of telling something about people. Do you think so?

Yeah, I can't bet. I really like normal nose like Alan and Steve. Raymond's really good. Do you like Raven? What sort of dog names are you not so keen on, Don? Well, sort of, you know, fluffy and rover and princess. You know, that kind of shit. I also like...

Can we swear on this? Oh, yes. Oh, okay, fine. So what we'll do, normally, if we walk across there, there's an Iron Age fort and there's the highest point in the Cotswolds, although technically we're not in the Cotswolds. It's a bit weird. Cheltenham's not in the Cotswolds, but we'll get into that.

But we'll go this way, actually, because that's still really nice, and it becomes like a Scottish moor, and it's nice. It's so beautiful here, isn't it? I absolutely love it. So I used to live down there on a farm, and I now live in Cheltenham, and so I still like these dogs have grown up walking across here like all their life are you just going to walk behind us like a sort of creepy bodyguard he's like you're not going to be freezing have you not brought a coat or how are you laid it up all right that's good he's like he's

like a surrendered why so do we just chat or just have you got any format points or do you start it very very loose excellent so can i start by saying how annoyed i am that you've got this job because this is my, honestly, my dream job. I want to be Brigitte Bardot, not that I want to change sex or become a sex god or become a racist, but I just want to live in a big house with like 800 dogs and look after them.

And my sister does that in Lebanon. Does she? Well, she's got 16 dogs. She's a shipping magnet, isn't she? Well, when you say shipping, everyone always thinks we own ships. No, they're shipping agents. Shipping agents, okay. So it's not like we're shipping agents.

She's not like Nearchos. No, no, no, I wish. But she does have 16 dogs at home and she runs a dog centre in above Beirut, which has 800 dogs that she rehomes. Why is this Truman or Fitzgerald? That's Truman. Truman's the one that will just constantly go for a stick. Why has Truman put the stick?

Does he want me to throw it? He wants you to throw it. That's his entire life. Truman. Fitz is an intellectual. He's never ever shown interest in retrieving anything ever. Go on Truman. He'll never let you stop now. Go on, Truy dog.

That's it. Then he backs away a bit because he's polite. So. Look at his little face. Truman! Go on Truman! What do you think, Fitz? Oh.

He'll never stop, isn't you? Oh, no. I'm in an abusive relationship now. Do you want me to do a gentleman throw? There you go. Ray. I should have brought a ball. Ray?

You probably don't do sports and stuff like Steve. No, he's not very sporty, Dom. What do you pick up a toothpick or something? Someone throws it for you. Will you say hello to Dom? Do you like Ray? I do like Ray. I feel really. bad. Obviously no one can see this but Ray right now imagine you've taken a mop and you've put

him in a wind tunnel and the mop is a Rastafarian. That's it. You're quite sweet though aren't you? He's very happy. He doesn't say much. No. He's not very expressive. He's not, is he, but how old is Raymond? Raymond is nine. Is he? How old are Truman? Truman's, uh, Truman, I think is nine now and Fitzgerald is 12. Fiddy's getting on. He's got cat and he's got a gammy black leg, but he's pretty fit for a 12-year-old. Oh yeah. Labradors often have leg. Especially him because he's a big one, yeah. Truman's a slightly runty one. Oh they're so lovely though. Do you know what I love about a lab? Just the reliability of them character-wise.

I just 100%. I don't think I've ever met a wanker lab. No. I've never met one I don't like. I've met brown ones that I really like the look of and they're a bit mental. Browns go a bit weird. Well I tell you, who's a leaner. Mac is a friend of mine and he's got a silver lab. So Lee Mac is, I don't really hang out comedians. And when I do, I don't really get on with them. But Lee, no, because they're not very nice, normally. They're a bit weird.

But Lee Mac is the single nicest person I think I've ever met. I was so surprised. Not because I thought he'd be awful. I was at Wimbledon. Yeah. Because comedians don't trust me. They don't know what I am. They think I'm a bit posh and I don't do stand-up.

And I think they think I'm a chancer and stuff. I don't know. And also comedians tend to be mizzenthroats, really. But anyway, I'm at Wimbledon, and Lee Matt comes in, the single nicest man. Oh, do I have to pick up here? I think I probably do. Has he done a poo-poo? Yeah, but then I've got a poo-poo. Where's your poo-poo? Give me, I've got a poo bag.

No, no, I've got them, but I'm just, I think, where the nearest bin is. Well, I am a good picker-upper. Are you? Yeah, people I hate are the people that pick it up. Not the ones that hang it. And then they hang it. What is it? What are you?

Tracy Mennon. I mean, what's going on? I hate the hangers. Yes, poo hangers. Ray, leave it alone. Ray, that's not lunch. Let Dom get on with it, please. So, yeah, I'm so glad you like him.

Yeah, he's really... Yeah, they're genuinely nicest man I've met. Really lovely, isn't it? And so, come on, Raymond. And so Lee ended up... We're going this way. Getting a silver lab. What's a silver lab?

Well, they're sort of grey coloured. Really? Yeah. Oh, I've never seen that. I saw a fox lab, a fox lab, like a sort of russet. That's kind of the posh choice at the moment in the Cotswolds. I bet the Beckham's got about ten of those. They probably bought a job lot.

Brooklyn's probably cooking one at the moment. So, Dom, I'm so thrilled to comment you today. I'm already, if you don't mind me saying, getting a very good energy off you. Well, just anything to do with dogs just makes me, like my, I'm just written a new book, actually, about the pursuit of happiness. Like, it's called the sole tourist. I'm not plugging because it's not out yet. Yeah. But I just thought as a sort of grumpy ex-golf, oh God, he does this weird thing. He finds dead squirrel carcasses and sort of rubs himself in it, like kind of war trophy.

What are you doing? Again, not the producer. No. What are you doing, sweetie? Come on, Fitz. Look at you, Fiddy. So? But anyway, in happiness.

So I go off all around the world, you know, I go to Rishi Keshe and get into yoga and I avert it and go to Denmark and all this stuff. But really, the thing that makes me happiest in the world is dogs without single, yeah, shadow of a doubt. I know what you mean, Dom. They're just not judgy. They're just, look at that one. So my sister had one of those. What is the, oh, the board of collie. And he went to St Andrew's University with her and got a degree because he went to all her lectures.

He's actually got a stiff cut for George and the dog. He got a 2-2 though, which I thought was a bit bad. On border collies, are they the most intelligent on? I don't know. They always strike me as a bit like a sort of neurotic manic neighbour. Do you know what I mean? Do you think so, nosy neighbour? There's a lot going on in their heads, but I just sort of find them, I don't really trust them.

I know what you mean. I think they're the sort of dogs, though, that I think they're so well suited to being in the country, aren't they? Yeah, because imagine them in, what would they be doing in the city? Imagine them in Hampstead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. not going to work. So I've always had labs since I've been down here. Really?

But I grew up with Rhodesian ridgebacks. Wow, they're an interesting dog. They're amazing. They're amazing. I've come across one of those. Who did I meet you? Alan Carr's got one of those. Alan Carr?

Yes. He's got a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I went to his house the other day to do his podcast. Oh, did you? And I didn't spot a dog. I think the Rhodesian Ridgeback, I think they live in the country. Oh, okay. He's got many properties.

Of course he has, yeah. I had a ridgeback. So that was terrible when I was a kid, I called my, My ridge backs were called after cricketers because I was just like a little prep school boy, so boycott and both them. That was so bad. And I had a ridgeback without a ridge who I saved because they were going to put him down because it was breeders. So I loved mine. They were great.

And this is... I'm just going to carry this bag of shit for fucking two hours now. Do you think we might want somewhere? We could hang it and come back and get it. But you see, I think that's what people say they do and then they never bother. But we will because our cars are here. We might not come round this way. I'll just carry a bag of shit, it's fine.

It's like a penance. You're a very honourable person, I like that. Because you knew on some level you weren't going to come back and claim it. It really irritates me people that leave shit everywhere. Don, look at Raymond. He's actually really enjoying. Raymond, look at you go. Come on, Rayshaw, Dom, how are you run? But this is fine, Raymond.

It's the first three minutes. We've got two hours here. Come on. Have you left London before, Raymond? Did you look at Raymond? Can you look at Don when he's speaking to you, please? It's very difficult, isn't it? I don't know if I'm talking to his face or his ass,

but you must have that a lot. But can you see he's very calm with the lab? He is, yeah. Do your listeners know it's because they're all black, I think, they get on? No, I think it's because he just knows. He's had previous with labs, and he just knows they'll treat him well. I think they think it's just a bit of tumbleweed

rolling across the top of the... So talking with your childhood, Dom, I want to go back to your childhood, because you've had one of the most fascinating childhoods of anyone I've ever interviewed. I think so, actually. Yeah, you really have, haven't you? So you were born in Beirut. I was. And that's because your dad was, he was working there.

Was he a diplomat? No, so that's often, I think he became honorary consul for a bit. Right. When everyone else left during the war. But no, the sort of short story is that about three generations, ago. Oh no, the shipping company, that's it. It's not shipping company.

It's a shipping agent. No, but it's just shipping company makes you sound like a spoiled bastard with massive amounts of ships. We don't have any ships. They're just shipping agents. When a ship comes into Bay route port, they are offloaded. That's all they do. But he sort of inherited the role, didn't he?

Yes, I think about four or five generations ago, some of my family left Spittlefields. This is the story I know because they were Huguenots. And then they were in Spitalfields for ages. And then someone did something wrong and ended up in Smyrna, which is Izmir in Turkey today. And that was back then it was a sort of Hong Kong international zone where kind of losers went to try and make money. And he went and I think he did quite well. They became merchants. And they were there for a hundred years or so.

And then in the First World War, the Ottomans were allied with the Germans and because we were Brits, we're going down this sort of wayish. Lovely. And they were allied with the Germans. And because they were Brits, they were arrested. marched across Turkey, put in a crusader castle in Urfa on the Turkish-Syrian border, and they were there for the whole First World War. And then when they were released, they came to Beirut. Right. And that's when they started up this company. That's roughly, I think. I'm still waiting for who do you think you are to get in touch with me. So,

because I'm such a good story, but I know they don't want you to know too much. I pretend I don't know anything. Well, sometimes also they can, they research you. I know people where they found out their have researched them and then they never end up doing it. Why? Well, there can be various reasons apparently. Sometimes it's because they uncover a family history that might be distressing or something. Amazing, that's what you want, isn't it? That's kind of very close to you.

What, you own 10,000 slaves or something? No, but more like your sister is your mother. Oh, I love that, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. No, but that's what you want. If I'm watching, we've got good news and bad news. You've got a sister, but you've lost a mother. Come on Ray, show Dom how you run.

I'm going to try and paint a picture for you because this is podcast. We're on top of Cleve Hill, Cleve Common and we're looking towards the flatlands of kind of with that all floods. That's Evesham and the Seven and then you've got Malvern Hills over there, Gloucester over there. But it's got this amazing heather up here and it kind of, you'll see it gets very Scottish. We're going to go down to the gate and then turn left. You see all that purple over there. It's amazing. It doesn't actually feel like Shelton, if I'm on a lot.

them if I want to want to. So there's an amazing place just on the other hill there. I think you say Bellus or Bealus Nap. And that's a neolithic burial mound, which is very cool. He's got a thistle in his. Yeah, that's going to be an issue with that. Undercarriage. Do you wash his, I mean, clearly not. Do you just let it grow? No, he gets groomed regularly. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. How dare you? Well, I mean, it looks like a... You don't know what it's like with your with your labs. Right, you need to pull on that thistle dom. Oh, okay. But it's sharp.

That's right. There. But you struck, I thought you'd be right. You strike me. It's quite hardy. Yeah. I really want to get rid of this bag of shit now. Well, we will get rid of it. So I want to know a bit more about your childhood. Because you, obviously, the most, the thing that everyone says, I want you to guess. when I said, I'm going to meet Dom Jolly. Oh, Christ. Very good response, by the way, to that. It'll be three things.

What was the first thing they said? They said, oh, Dom Jolly, he? Yeah. He's a wanker, for me? No, no one said that. I'm just going through my online comments. So I tell you what it was. A lot of people, and this is the fact that everyone seems to know about you,

he went to school with Osama bin Laden. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I've dined out on that since I found out. I mean, Jesus Christ. I didn't realize that was common, common knowledge. I probably over-told the story, but when you find out you went to school with Sarm bin Laden, you're not going to keep quiet about that, are you?

You are going to keep quiet about it when you apply for an American visa. But apart from that, you're off. And he would have been a lot older, obviously. Yeah, yeah. So as far as I can tell, because obviously the school I went to, it's called Brumana High School,

and it's a Quaker school, an English Quaker school in the Hills above, Beirut. And they're obviously not massively keen to promote one of their famous old boys as Osama bin Laden. It's like the total failure of the Quaker system because they're pacifists. But as far as I can tell, he was there for a year because a lot of sort of Gulf and Saudi rich people would send their kids to Lebanon because technically it's Muslim, although it's not a Muslim nation. And so the parents could all turn up and do drugs and go whoring in Beirut, pretending that they were, you know, in an Arab country.

And so as far as I know, when I was six, he was 18, we were at school together for a year. But people say like, oh, did you hang out together? Were you mates? No, we weren't mates. You know, God, if I had a picture of me and him, I'd have really milked it from then on. I'd have just toured. I'm not keeping that to myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All I wanted, the moment I found out was a school photo. If I could have a school photo, me and him in it, I'd never have to work again. I could tour the chat shows for the rest of my life. But as it is, because I'm a prankster, people think I'm lying. And actually the best stories about me are actually true. Yes. And that's what's really annoying because no one believes me. Look at this.

We've come to a litter and dog waste. Oh, I'm so pleased for you. You're no longer smell of shit. I'm no longer carrying a bag of shit. Come on, Truman and Fitz. Right, so we have a choice now. What do you think? We can either do the round of this amazing hill or if we're feeling a bit ambitious.

If we go down here, left and not. right we get to a 10,000 year old Neolithic burial man called Bellas Knapp. It's not as beautiful a walk. This is more beautiful. What do you think Dom? It's your walk. I've done this 5,000 times. I can give a shit. Do you have a preference soundwise or anything? What would be the least windy? Probably that one actually. Let's do that. Let's go to the near little burial. So you are actually right now on the Cotswold way. Are you familiar with the Cotswold way? Yes. Well, I know. I know what it is. I haven't done it yet. I keep meaning to do it. But it goes, I think, and everyone on listening is going to go, nah, it's bollocks, but it's roughly chipping Camden to Bath, I think.

Right. And we're sort of near the one end. It's Cameron country, isn't it? Cameron is Whitney. So, no, we don't have that sort of person around here. We've got far worse. We've got far worse. So, I thought I've been Larden. Yeah, you're obsessed at this. I am quite. Well, I had someone famous in my class. Oh, who?

Christopher Nolan? The film director? No, I went to school with him. I don't know, because he went to the dragon afterwards, didn't it? No, he went to Halebury. He went to Halebury. Yeah, because when I was at Halebury,

the most famous person at school when I was there was John McCarthy, like, who was chained to a radiator in Lebanon, and I thought, well, I can fucking beat that. And then, then it was me. Then Mangan, Stephen Mangan took over, and then suddenly fucking Christopher Nolan, no one cares. So Christopher, I love with, we have this and come on.

Again, I only had him for two years because it was a little, primary school in Highgate in North London. His family moved to... I used to live in Highgate. Yeah. Well, his family moved there and they'd move from America. Okay. And so again, it was a bit of an Osama bin Laden and it was only 18 months. Do you remember him? I've got a photo. Have you? See, that's what you want. I've got two class photos. Have you? That's what you want. So, so what was it, what were you like as a schoolboy, Dom? Were you, were you popular? Uh, no, don't think so. I was, uh, I was, I was,

prickly and quite defensive and I think probably quite arrogant so I was quite smart but I didn't really like anyone and in Lebanon I was always this English yeah he's really struggling isn't I'm going to pick him up Dom yes it's not really walking the dog of Emily Dean it's carrying the dog it really is look at that you spoilt bastard he's got such a sweet little face though look at you can I carry him for a bit oh please will you Dom I'd love that There you go, come on. Come on, Ray. So in Lebanon, I was always this English kid, even though I sort of spoke Arabic and French,

but I was English. And then when I got sent to boarding school when I was seven here, which is insane. Seven? Yeah. So were your parents still in Lebanon and you were sent? Yeah, they sent me off to boarding school. At seven? Yeah, yeah.

Well, that's kind of normal, I think. My dad went at seven. And that's why we're all so fucked up. And we end up running in the country. There's a great book called Sad Little Men, all about people like me, they got sent off at seven, and basically our life froze emotionally at that stage.

And then we think, how do we deal with it? Let's run the country. Honestly, that's how the Tory party works, and I'm not a Tory. Oh, my God. So... And at The Dragon, I was at school with Tim Hennman and most of Radiohead.

That was quite good. And one of the Natchables, who was blown up on Mountbatten's boat. It was a bit of an assortment. A bit of a lucky mix. So just to let you know, you see those two, those two, yeah, right in between underneath, that's where we're going. Are we happy to do that distance? Yeah, really happy. Oh, Truman.

Boys, we haven't been here for ages, have we? You having a nice time, guys? Oh, they love it. So arriving at boarding school, I mean, I presume, as you say, that was very much the norm, then, wasn't it? It wasn't really questioned. I mean, I now realise it's not the norm for normal people. Yeah. And I certainly didn't do that with my kids because it's child abuse really.

But I think my parents had done it, so I think they thought it was normal to do it to me. And also, we were in the middle of a war in Lebanon. So I was actually... This is around 75. It was exactly. Well, I went in 76, so yeah. And so part of me, I mean, I used to prefer Lebanon that, you know, the civil war, the sort of height of the civil war in, and I was happier there than I was at a boarding school in Oxford.

I hated boarding school. Did you? Yeah, I just hated the rules, hated being stuck there, hated all the people there. The only time I ever enjoyed school was when girls arrived when I was 16, because all the girls at Halebury, Halebury was really thick. It was full of thick North London kids. And I was bullied at Halebury for being posh, which I thought,

that's really weird. I thought that was the whole point of this place. And then girls came in, and I think to get the results up, they made it really difficult for girls to get in so you had these really intelligent outgoing girls and it was just like oh thank god although we were slightly terrified of them but that that was the only bit i enjoyed yeah and did you would you say you got on you had a closer relationship with your mom and your dad or your dad when you were growing i know my well i kind of idolized my dad but we never got on and he was a very he he um he left school and fought in the second world war he

He fought in the last six months of the Second World War. He was much older. Yeah. And he fought in the Pacific. And I think that completely PTSDDD him out, really. Which he wouldn't have had any idea of what that was even. But also, you know, he'd been sent at school at seven. And he hadn't even gone back to Lebanon, like, because you couldn't, you couldn't do it in time.

So he would stay with godparents and stuff. And then he was totally emotionally oppressed. So no, he and I kind of, from the moment I was kind of 14 onwards, just. didn't really get on whereas my mum and I got on. But it's sometimes the parent, I had a bit of a sort of tricky relationship with my dad, I was actually estranged from him later in life and

I don't know, I think because of that he was the parent I sort of I felt more bonded too oddly. Well I think it's because you're desperate to like all you want to, like the foot, it's like you know, the more they pull away, the more you're I mean it's like an emotional blackmail thing It's very weird.

That's true, isn't it? Kind of, yeah. It's weird because my dad, I just gave up in the end. Did you? To me, my dad was gone. And then weirdly, he kind of got, not dementia, but he definitely sort of lost it a bit. And he became this very sweet but slightly vacant man

who I kind of got on with, but it was not my dad I got on with. So when he finally died, it wasn't a big deal for me, really, because I'd kind of done it. You sort of possibly made your piece of it as well. Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah.

And so, so, yeah. At school were you... I was asking if you were popular, but... I was definitely not popular. I think it's always interesting. If I was one of your friend's parents... Yeah. And I said, oh, what's that...

What's jolly like? Yeah, yeah. What would the friend's parents have said of you? Cocky, tricky. Cocky, tricky, probably. I love a bit of cocky and tricky. But I was just cocky and tricky. I don't know.

I felt a lot of people at school were really thick, and they were. And I'd done a lot more than people. because I had I'd just grown up in this extraordinary place, meeting extraordinary people and having this extraordinary stuff, and then I'd turn up at school and everyone's right, what did I do in the holidays? The most important thing they'd done was like at a pony club or something.

It was crazy. So you'd been exposed, you're absolutely right, to all these different, you know, and you were culturally much more sophisticated. I think culturally I was way more sophisticated. I'm not, again, I'm sounding cocky and tricky now, but I just was, but also, I don't know, they were really thick. You know, no offence if you went to school with me, but you know this is true.

you were thick. I know what you mean. I mean, we didn't live in Beirut, but my dad worked in TV and we moved around a lot. So we were moving to New Zealand, Australia. And when I came back here, I did the same thing as you where I was about seven when I came back here. And I just found a lot of people quite insular and parochial.

Parochial is exactly the word. Like England, certainly in 1976 to about 1985, it was the most parochial still slightly, you know, like every Sunday we'd have filmed. night where we'd watch Bridge over the River Quay or Eagles' dance. Like, guys, you know, the fucking war's over, let it go. Like, it was crazy. I remember I had a friend and I'd go to her house and every day, you know, literally

a clockwork, he was an accountant or something and it was 6.30 and I'd see this Sierra nose into the drive and he'd go and ruffle the Labrador's head. And I said, is this the same every night? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that, I mean, my whole fear in life, it still is, is that it's the sort of suburbia, it's the, I mean, it's everything as I get older. I wish I had some stability, financial, emotional, I do have stability, but every, you know, career stability. But I just, I've never liked that. I've liked, I think I grew up in slight chaos. Yeah. And I kind of like chaos. So you've got slight war correspondent syndrome. Oh, I'm even worse than war correspondent. I'm like, you've got the people that go off to war to be mercenaries, so they're proper, like, adrenaline fighters.

Then you've got war correspondents that kind of chase that. And I'm a travel writer who chases war correspondence. Like, you know, I went to Cambodia. I was just so excited that I was like walking in the footsteps of people who'd written the River of Time or stuff like that. I was just so into it, John Swain and stuff. And I grew up in Lebanon, the people I looked, I admired were either, I didn't know at the time, but they were spies, diplomats or foreign

correspondence. And that's kind of what I wanted to be. Well, when you went to university, you went to university in London, didn't you? Yeah, a big mistake. Was it? Why do you think, Dom? Well, I went there because I was in love with someone and they were going there and then they immediately got a boyfriend. So that was annoying. I still know it to this day. It's like, it's fine. And we're very good mates. But it was like, fuck, what am I doing here? I should have gone somewhere with a campus because I lived in London. So I was just living at home and in the end I didn't really go in. Whereas I spent a lot of time going and visiting friends at campuses and I would have liked

a campus life. I nearly got into Oxford but I screwed up my interview so badly and then I listened at the door and I heard them just say no. Yeah. I went in full drag so that was probably a bad move because I was a sort of... Is this a dominolely lie? No, no, it's absolutely true. I was a sort of confused goth, but I was sort of viewing.

into new romantic goth. I'm not going to call it Dom jolly light. It's not like it's picaresque. Yeah no no it's true. It's Dom jolly picares. No I'm very I'm very happy to like embellish a story or whatever but these are all true. I was wearing so I was a sort of got a mohican I wore eyeliner and I wore a skirt over trousers and it was a kind of I hadn't quite modeled the look that was going to go into my 20s with and I remember my tutor saying I said do you think I should go to the Oxford interview like that they said yeah be yourself the moment I walked in the room I realised it was the worst mistake I'd ever made.

It's like sort of six, completely homophobic, even though I wasn't gay, sort of old men looking at me going, nope. But some people might say, there was an element of, well, if I go dress like this. Yeah. If I go dress like this, then, and I don't get in, it's not because I wasn't good enough. Well, I mean, there's definitely an element where I'm always making excuses, because I've always, I've always known I'm smart, but I've not worked at anything. So there definitely is that.

But no, I didn't think like that. I just genuinely, it was my disguise, really. Talking about spying. Yeah. Because there probably was, you know, having grown up in the environment you grew up and that all seems relatively normalised. Well, I never knew that at the time, but I now think, I mean, my dad got an OBE.

I don't know what he got an OBE for. I don't know. Maybe he was a spy. Well, I don't think he's a spy in the sense of like what you'd call a spy. He's not Tom Hiddleston. No, but, you know, I think just people helped the government. back then you know he was British right and definitely I when I was at SOAS there was a guy that would come into the bar and would take people aside and go

have you considered what you might do later in life this is at university yeah at School of Oriental African Studies because they were needing people speaking Arabic and stuff right and I was a got a got this stage so they just ignored me totally and in the end I think I got a sympathy fuck from MI6 like they came up and just sort of said have you considered what you might I knew he didn't give a shit and he wasn't gonna take me on and I said no not for me thanks and that was that. Although maybe I'm just telling you that because no but I'm not I'm just not as I you say classic categorically I'm not spy because I go to very weird places and I don't want to be a

spy you also don't have the energy of the spy because you you seem someone who's quite authentic and honest yeah but that would that would make me the very good spies you know the best kind of spy most spies my dad met Kim Philby do you know Kim Philby is sorry I don't know and I'm slightly obsessed with those sort of people yes no I ended up in Beirut And I asked my dad if he ever met him. And he said only once. He was at a dinner party that Philby was supposed to attend. And he was late.

And then suddenly the door opened, Philby came in paralytically drunk. Because most spies, because they've got this inattention, end up just drinking to a thing. And he just collapsed and lay on the floor through the whole dinner party. And now is my dad meeting Kim Filby, which I love that story. How you enjoying your walk, Ray. How fascinating to have met him. Yeah, very cool. We never really knew.

My dad, well, my dad was friends with John McCarray, who, David. Oh my God, how cool is that? Well, yeah, that was cool, but I never really, when I was younger. Well, you didn't appreciate it at the time. No, I know. I don't want to go to their house. Oh, my God, I'm just like that. There's so many things.

Do you know what I mean? Do you look back and think, I just didn't appreciate it? Well, I have very weird moments where I kind of feel a bit zealig-like, because I was at places at amazing historical times. I mean, it won't mean much to many people, but when just after the, just before the Sabra and Shatila massacres in Beirou, when Israel invaded, a guy called Bashir Jammail, who was the sort of young head of the Christian Maronites,

was made president. And it was supposed to be like this big change in Lebanon. And I was standing on the balcony of our house, overlooking Lebanon, and I heard this bomb go off in Lebanon and saw a cloud go up. And that was him being killed. And I, of course, didn't really know what it was at time, but it's so weird to have actually witnessed things like that.

It's very odd. So I read loads of books about that and think, oh, fuck, yeah, I remember that at a moment. And so after you graduated, I mean you were saying, well I would have considered a job, say in the Foreign Service or whatever, a foreign office. What did you, how did you end up? How did you end up making that transition to wanting to work in TV? Did that come gradually? I think I knew almost straight away that I never wanted to really wear a suit and I didn't want to get up early in the morning.

Those were two like important things. and I was I went I got a job at MTV and I was working in the kitchen making sandwiches for headbangers ball and that was quite

exciting for me I was like oh no it's music and I'm in telly but I'm still making sandwiches but that was where I was going to head heading and then I'd forgotten that I'd applied to the European Commission to be an intern

and I suddenly get a phone call in the kitchen this woman says hello it's Susan Beresford in Prague we've got your application and you've got the internship when can you start and I just didn't know what the fuck she was talking about and then I kind of remembered and I worked it out so I went downstairs and handed in my notice and they said oh have you got another

running job I go yeah I'm off to be a diplomat in Prague so I drove to Prague and I was there for a year I had no idea what I was doing you were a good diplomat no I mean I'd know I was just asking about and it was the Czech Republic of Czechoslovakia as it was had just become the Velvet Revolution literally just happened. So often when you travel somewhere, you're always, however much you enjoy it, there's always some twat going, oh, if only you've been here two years ago, that's, you know, it's ruined now. Yeah. Czechoslovakia at that moment was the only time I've been somewhere and

thought, I am here right now at the perfect time. There was no advertising in Prague. It was three months after the Velvet Revolution. Frank Zapper and Lou Reed were honorary consoles. Vatislav Haver was in charge. I saw Harville. the velvet underground in the old Politburo's nuclear bunker with Vatsav Havel dancing next to me. I mean it was crazy. Wow. And then Chequess of Arc is split up while I was there. That was amazing. But I just didn't know what I was doing. Anyone come to my office? I would just say I'll refer that to Brussels and throw the file in the cupboard and that was it. It's been funny the way Truman suddenly saw me as a mark again. He does everyone.

He was like, you know, you haven't put the hours in recently. Yeah. So after your year as a diplomat, Yes, I come back from Prague and I've been working for the EU and it sounds very exciting and I think I can't go back to MTV. So I get a job in Westminster. I work for a guy called Andrew Roth. Oh, ICN Parliament, was that? Well, Andrew Roth first. He was a very old guy who lived in a basement and basically made these weird books called Roth's parliamentary profiles where he'd just put together loads and loads and loads of facts about MPs when there was no Wikipedia and so basically as a journal you'd just look it up and I learned everything about every MP and then they were all wiped out in the 97 elections. So I have this pointless information base. And then I started working for house to house, which was like a very nerdy,

so a really nerdy midday political program based in Millbank, hosted by Sheena MacDonald. And yeah, it was just, I loved it. I absolutely loved it. But again, I just knew it wasn't for me. I just was in the thick of it and I was enjoying it. And the other thing that people often remember about you, in addition to your famous school, not schoolmate,

but um they in addition to us on my bin laden they also say they mentioned the david meller incident that's true because david meller is pretty much responsible for trigger happy tv really the guy's just such a sap and he's just every you know what do we remember about david meller just a very awkward looking bloke who supposedly shag antonia de sanchus while wearing his chelsea kit although that was we should say if anyone is not familiar because if you're young he was sorely he was saw of he sat in the chair of the disgraced minister having an affair. Yeah, for a long time he was in that chair. But also he was the poster.

If he had to design a sort of damaged Tory minister caricature, that's what he'd look like. A sort of huge comb over gap teeth, glasses, just sort of cartoon ugly. And just awful. And I think at the time he was Minister of Culture and Sport. That was it. And I was interviewing him about football hooliganism. And I just used to try and get my things to be a bit more

We need to turn right in a minute. I can't remember where because I haven't done this for ages. I think it's at this wall. It's a lovely walk, Dom. Is it? Yeah, I really like it. I'm just trying to find Bellis' nap because we can't miss the Neolithic burial mound.

I will find it. Yeah. And so yeah, so I was interviewing him and I just used to try and make my interviews a bit more interesting. And it was about footballingism. So I had a couple of mates playing football in the background. I thought to highlight what I was talking about. And I said when I scratch my head, which if you watch Trigger Happy, is always the sign for something to happen.

They were going to pass me the ball and I was going to pass it back mid-interview. I don't really know why, but that's what we did. But anyway, they booted the ball and instead of it coming to me, it sailed through the air, smashed David Meller in the face, broke his glasses and it was just comically brilliant. He lost his shit. Yeah. And so of course when I brought that back to ITN, they were like, this is amazing. And so they sort of put it in as a sort of, and finally today, a bit of a mis-up with our, you know, excellent.

But then they started to realise they put two and two together. Do you think they started to realise you were a bit of what would now be called a disruptor? Yes, definitely. Yeah. Because I'd done an interview of Paddy Ashdown where I'd had a whole lot of clowns fighting in the background. Oh, I loved Paddy. Yeah, it's a nice. Why do you get called Paddy Pantsdown?

Did he have an affair? Oh yeah, yeah. He had an affair with a very frumpy-looking woman, which is very Paddy Pantsdown. I don't mind it when they're frumpy. I kind of like it when it's pretty. Yeah, when they're frumpy, I think, okay, fair enough. He clearly liked her. It's like my speech day at school.

Cecil fucking Parkinson came and gave us a speech. about honour in public life literally is he just sort of got Sarah got his mistress pregnant so um I'm just getting slightly where we're going to miss Bellis Nat and I'd be so embarrassed no don't worry Don well I think we're going to find it okay also this is so this is my ideal kind of walk well it's just out the wind I absolutely love it well this goes on forever like I used to do all this so nice here um so yes so the day I think that's interesting though so When that David Mellar thing happens, so there's this very prominent Troy MP and then this thing happens where the football hits him and his glasses fall off and it's things, as far as everyone watching is concerned, oh dear, this has all gone wrong, it's mortifying. I love things going to say, so you're feeling at that moment.

I'm just like, this is fucking great. Really? I love, I can't bear people that talk about, oh, live TV and it's all gone wrong. You go, no, that's what you want to watch. You want to watch the Brits going wrong. and Sam Fox can't speak a minor Mick Fleetwood like four foot taller or Olly Reid rampaging around some studio that's I mean they they definitely you know you don't bring Olly Reid on a live show and like leave six bottles of vodka his dressing room in case you don't want something that's what was exciting for me

and I hate I hated all the formality I hated the kind of the sort of dull formats that no one was really into I just liked disruption I suppose yeah chaos maybe there's the theme for this walk well also I know what you mean. Oh my God, I'm going to lose, Bella, it's so embarrassed. Anyway, go on. It's the idea of let's pretend that everything's normal. Yeah.

That obviously sets something off in you when people are like that. So for example, I would sometimes felt when I worked in an office, I worked in magazines, and when people behave in what I would call a very meeting-y way. Do you know what I mean? They use meeting language and they say, well, that's certainly something that we can consider. I said, just talking talk normally. It's office, it's business products basically, synergize and skill sets. It's apprentice speak.

Yeah, I can't bear any of that. I can't bear chit-chat. I hate kind of... I hate small talk to you. Oh God, when you get on a zoo, before you talk about what you talk about, you have to sort of pretend you'd give a shit for five minutes about... How are you? Hey, so what have you been up to?

Like, fucking, let's just talk about this and get off. I hate it when people... You know what I said recently, Don't me? You'd be proud of me. I've got a friend who came up to me and she said, well, never mind that. How are you? What's going on?

with you and do you know what I said I said I'm evolving I'm having therapy to get to the jolly stage of things of fuck off but what I said was I feel that how I am will come up organically during the course of this conversation yeah and that's what I enjoy is getting to that I don't want to say I'm very well the dogs what you really want to say how are you I'm fucking suicidal at a moment I overdosed last night and ranked myself to death I mean what are you going to say is that you know You don't want to know the truth. I've got a guy actually who I, he's very sweet, and I meet him on a dog walk a lot here.

And I always say, hey, how are you? And then he proceeds to tell me. And it's always just awful. So I now just avoid that. Never say, how are you? It's like another thing I've learnt saying. I always, when I meet people, I'm sort of nervous and I say, nice to meet you.

And of course, I've probably met them before. You probably met them. And if you're well known, they'll remember meeting you. Well, that's the problem. So you have to say nice to see. you not nice to meet you yes you do have to say that like you know one because you probably met a lot of people as well remember because I was pissed not not just because you're pissed no in defence of you for a lot of people if they're not

well-known meeting someone who's well-known and who they're recognised everyone I've met is well-known do you yeah I think so well actually that's probably not true but no I do I think I do right a little less on the smug side oh we're at the burial ground we go right now. Okay, brilliant. Hey. I think I haven't been there for so long. Excuse me, Fitz. Where is it? Where is it? Let me check. Because otherwise we've gone too far. I'm glad he went for Truman and Fitzgerald and not Zelda and Scott or, you know, that they're Yes. I like. We've done it. There it is. There it is. Oh, it's pretty cool.

It's fabulous. Can we go and have a look down? Yeah, yes. 10,000 years old. This is the oldest thing you'll have seen on any of your walks. Labs? No, no, running on the burial ground. No, no, they're allowed. Oh, they? It's Neolithic. It's the last culture you can be rude to. No one can't you. I can do a Neolithic accent. No worries. I love that about the Neolithic people. Yeah, yeah. They're very light into the comedy about them. So they're going to laugh at them. Do you know what? They're not the Wokerati. Come on dogs. Let's go and dig up some graves. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday. So whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to some

so you can join us on our walks every week.