Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Ed Balls (Part Two)

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Yorkshire’s Pontefract Racecourse is the backdrop today for Emily and Ray’s walk with the brilliant Ed Balls. Ed tells us about how his wife, Home Secretary Yvette Cooper, encouraged him to go on Strictly Come Dancing - and the piece of advice that changed his atttiude towards the show.We also find out how he came to host a podast with his former political opponent George Osborne - we discover if they are friends, and whether or not George would be invited over to the Balls-Cooper household for lasagne. Political Currency is availble on all podcast platforms!Follow Ed on instagram @edballsYou can buy your copy of Ed’s brilliant book Appetite: a memoir in recipes of family and food here!Thank you to Handpicked Hotels for hosting us at their dog friendly hotel Wood Hall during our trip to Yorkshire. Raymond was throughly spoiled and he loved his mini break! Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with Ed Balls. Do go back and give Part 1 a listen if you haven't already because he's honestly a brilliant guest and I think you'll love it. Do also check out the podcast Ed does with George Osborne, political currency, and I'd love it if you subscribe to us at Walking the Dog. Here's Ed and Ray Ray. It is a vet, which tells me a lot about a vet and is why I love the sound of her,

who was really keen for you to do strictly when they calls. It's barking, isn't it? You originally were kind of, were you thinking, I can't do that. Well, in the summer I lost my seat. I've got this new fellowship at Harvard. So I go back to the place I'd been 30 years ago. It's basically like a massive... Casual fellowship at Harvard. It was unpaid. But everything was the same. The restaurants of students, the only thing which was different was I used to be 21. So that was a bit of a blow. Can I just ask you something about Harvard? You'd be really honest with me. Because if it weren't mine,

were you quite a sort of ladies man when you younger? quite the sort of man about town dashing. I don't mean in your behaviour, because I know you kept yourself tidy. I just mean, was it sort of, were you quite a catch, I suppose? I'd no idea. I had one... You had interest.

I had one girlfriend from 14 to 21. We went all the way through university, at A levels and going to university. And in the end, it ended in the months before my finals, because she just needed, I think, to break out of it. Do you think her parents ate out? Look, what you could have won. I hope so.

But she finished with you or the other way around? She finished with me. Did she? Why? The problem was that we were in different places. I was at Oxford. She was in London. Oh, that's what they always say, Ed. I know.

You know, they always say that I've had that. I've had, oh, my head's all over the place. I just need space. And she'd found a new man who was, Charles Dunstan, the guy who. Oh, my house. Yep. Did she end up with him? No.

It ended some time after. But it was kind of a, it was all a bit tumultuous. But then you ended up, you found the right one. All I can say is her mum would ring me to check I was okay. Because you're that one. The mum's loved you. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that she did.

But I, um, so, and I think after that, I was just very cautious about really being committed again until I thought it was right. Yeah. And then once it was right. And did you know with it, of it? You just knew. Yeah, very quickly. I think both of us did and that was just what it was.

And so, yeah. And she encouraged you to do strictly. Yeah, so what actually happened was the previous summer, you know, I said no to go on, I'm a celebrity. Because I'm scared of rats and therefore I couldn't do that. It's a really bad fear you've got, isn't it? It's not just some like... It's really quite visceral.

Yeah. You had to cancel Christmas lunch virtually once because of it. We had a rat in the house. There was a rat in the kitchen. I didn't know what to do. But a vet had gone on Woman's Hour, just in the Labour Leisure election, and she was asked, will Ed be behind you pulling the strings? Which is kind of like ridiculous question.

And she said, no, absolutely not. She said he'll probably be off doing something like going on Strickley or something. And so, and I think this may have planted the idea. And Nick Robinson had also an interview with me where he had planted the idea. I then did sport relief bakeoff for common relief, which was great. And then the following spring, they got in touch with me and said, did I want to do it? and could I meet the producers?

And I thought, that's just a totally ridiculous idea. And I had kind of, whatever it wasn't in my life, I wasn't going to have gone strictly. And I was writing this book about politics. And had I really decided to move on, I didn't quite know, and what was it going to do? And then said, why would you say no to the biggest television program in the world? And politics is completely wild. You know, look what's happening in Britain and America. Go and do it.

And I then rang up Jeremy Vine, who had done it the previous autumn. and I'd been interviewed by him lots of times I didn't know him well, had a chat with him. He said, it's the best thing I ever did in my life, the most life-affirming thing. He said, go and do it. And so I said, yes. I mean, at the time, I said to that,

I was very clear, I met the two producers who were brilliant. And I said, I don't want to do Latin. I only want to do Baldwin. And they said, we're not sure if you fully understand how the show works. And I said, I don't want to wear any glitter or anything sparking. I don't think the word want means what you think it means.

And so they, it was very obvious I was quite in denial. Right. I was quite in denial, really. But then, of course, it was a real lesson in how, you know, I think the director general commented on your gangnam style as one of the biggest cultural moments or something. And it was an example in how, you know, you did become what that show was about, essentially. You know, because you realise actually, people kind of don't like the people that go in there and are immediately proficient in week one.

When they say of contestants, have they had any dance training, it would be fair to say in my case. I mean, it was fairly obvious what the answer to that one was. So they wasn't even asked. But the first week I did, we did a waltz to Are You Lonesome Tonight? And they're taking me literally. So in a suit, no sparkles in front of a backdrop of Westminster Bridge and the House of Parliament. We did our VT film. We went into that House Commons Chamber with the Commissioner.

So I am so burdened by my past. And so I did this waltz with such cautioned and fear and, you know, and I think I just actually realized if this is what I'm going to do, it's ridiculous. And so the next week we went into kind of the Charleston banjo kind of cowboy. And Katia said to me, if you're going to do it, do it, let go. And she also said, which is a fabulous insight, she said, when I'm in the finals of the world championships, and I really want to give everything, I vocalise it. You have to shout and sing and yell. And the first time I did this, we used to film every time we did it three or four times a day. First time I did it, I was so cautious.

And she said, no, you've got to really shout. It's kind of bang, pow, shh. And I thought, okay, and we, that's what I did. And I learned to put myself aside, my inhibitions aside, assume the character and just go. And that was the thing. She taught me that. And in politics, you are always yourself in performance. You're performing, but it's yourself.

Whereas actually what you're allowed to do in entertainment is to put yourself slightly to the side and then go into the character. And then the following week was movie week. And so the child stood at work. because I thought I've got a real chance of getting through, because the audience reaction was great. And they'd said they wanted me to do Jerry Lee Lewis, Great Balls of Fire, for Movie Week. They wanted me to come down from the ceiling on a flaving piano. But two in the morning were driving back from Elstree,

and their vet's on her phone. And she says, you know this movie where you can assume the lead character? You do realize that the biopic is based upon is where he has an affair with his 12-year-old cousin. She said, I think this may catch you the 12-year-old and you the paedophile. I think this is a bad idea. So I said, oh my God. So I then rang the producers at Sunday morning at 10 a.m.

I said, I don't think I can do this one. They said, give us an hour. And they came back and said, we want you to do the mask, Jim Carrey, to Cuban Pete the Samba. And I said, only if I can have a green face. Only if you let me, do not do it by half, let me be Jim Carrey the mask with a green face. And it was a total.

I don't want to half pass it. And that was the, it was fabulous. The green makeup was so. cool. Oh, you're so good on that show. But that gangam style has become, that was a great moment for your kids though, wasn't it? Did they love it? They did, although the two older kids really liked it and they came to the shows and we sat

them a few seats away from a vet, they were never on camera, but our youngest daughter was at the time, 13. She was below the age where she was allowed to come into the studio. She was also at that very sensitive age and I think she actually found it quite hard. I mean nowadays she will talk about it fondly but at the time her view was dad should be embarrassing but you are so overachieving. It's causing me terrible grief and I was banned from going to her school parents evening for two years because people would recognise me and so I think she found it quite hard.

You and Ivert have really made an effort to keep your kids, you know, out of the firing line as it were We have. And I can see why you did that. And I think it was probably a good idea for a number of reasons. And you mentioned something which I found really touching, which is your daughter once made a comment, didn't she, to you about being in the playground or wanting to... That's right.

What did she say to you? It was when she was going to secondary school. And I think we'd never known if we were making the right call. Yeah. But because we'd both been in politics before we had children, children, we were both on track to be elected potentially. I was by the time we were having kids. And we were just worried about what that would mean for them.

And so we just made a decision that we would never refer to them by name. We would never talk about them as people. We were talking about our kids or our daughter said, but keep it kind of always arm the length, no photos of us with them at all. And then when our oldest daughter went to, to secondary school. So she was 11.

This was 2010. This was after we'd been in the cabinet. And she said, she said the really important thing for me is that when I walk across the playground, I want people to see me first. I don't want them to see the daughter of Avet Cooper, Ed Balls.

And all the way, so, this is so funny, she went to university, she's finished university now. She got through the whole of her university in the belief that nobody knew who her parents were, we would be allowed to go to take her stuff, but never together. And I would have to wear hats and glasses to get her stuff in.

So she graduates. And then she then finds out, after she's graduated, one of her friends said, she said, well, we all knew after a fortnight. But we just decided we wouldn't mention it. So they never mentioned it for three years. How classy of them, though? So classy. And therefore she, on the one hand, there was always a slight burden,

and people would find that her parents were. She would be in shows because she'd love directing and acting and we would go and watch but we always had to be sort of slightly, sit separately, all that kind of stuff. They all knew.

You were like the boyfriend she was ashamed of. I know. Or you were in a vet. But she wanted to be her. It's good she's called Cooper. Yeah. I mean, there's a number of reasons

why it was good they were called Cooper, but one of them is sort of slightly more anonymous. There's lots of Coopers. If you say, you know, I don't know, making up a name, and Julie Cooper.

You don't think, Ah, Evette Cooper's daughter. You think just any old Cooper. I mean, they've been making bowels for decades, centuries. And you had a slight problem with balls, didn't you? Oh, God, yeah. Please don't use that as a trailer. But you did, when you were younger,

people would ring up your house and, wouldn't they prank calls? All sorts of stuff. We grew up in Norwich, where this is a very common name. I mean, surprisingly, as this may sound, there were two full pages on the phone book. Now, your younger audiences will not have any idea what I'm talking about. But old audience know what I mean by that.

Two pages of the phone book is a lot of balls. But we moved to Nottingham and there were not two pages, but two individual families with the surname. And so, you know, if you fancy you'd look it up in the phone book, you know, it was pretty clear which one we were. So we used to get a lot of those kind of things and, you know, it was just very uncommon name. And if you get a football training and they call out your names, if the other kids, laugh is bad but if all the parents start laughing as well it's kind of a bit of a burden when you're 11. Were you quite good at could you handle yourself as it were do you know what's mean like were you someone that didn't worry about being bullied or

where were you in the school hierarchy socially? I think I was um I think there's a little bit of this which has then lasted through all of my life I learned to sort of put my chin out and say go on then you know if you're hard enough if you want to laugh you you laugh. So I think it gave me that sort of slightly tough, slightly assuming the worst exterior. And politically you were called bruiser. I was and that was sort of, I think that's partly a reflection of, go on then. I think there's a little bit of that. But the thing about being a bruiser is in politics, where there's difficult decisions to be made and you need to sort out a problem, then you want a bit of tough. I did lots of public meetings when I was a

constituency MP, you'd have lots of angry people, and you need to stand up and say, this is where we are. And so therefore, if you're shorter and smaller and thinner, you're less likely to be called bruiser and if you're bigger and more solid and you also have that sort of toughness which I don't think you can succeed in politics without you always be called bruiser but that is very different from being nasty or a bully I've been on one end of bullying all my life and or not all my life in the early period of that life I know what it's like and therefore the idea that you would ever I always wanted to fight for the weak one not the strong one I always wanted to make sure that people weren't being picked on any time I get called bully I think you don't know who I am but

comes with a territory. Okay. And you now do a brilliant podcast called Political Currency with former Chancellor George Osborne. I'm more team balls, I've got to say, but you know, there's something for everyone. There'll be loads of people who think I can't listen to that because they've had balls and there'll be lots of people who think I can't listen to that because of George Osborne. Did you get approached? Were you friends with him? Not friends at all. I mean, you know, when he was Chancellor, I had a chance of It was very tough.

And we had some very difficult moments. And I think he said some things at times, which I thought were kind of shocking about me. It made me angry. Aside from, I disagreed with what he was doing and his motivation in terms of the country and the way he went about austerity. He said he doesn't give a friar tuck. Doesn't give a friar tuck. That was one of my, that was the Robin Hood budget.

Yeah. You said he is not the Robin Hood. He is more the show of Nottingham. Indeed, he doesn't give a fryer talk. I did say that. That made the ITV news. That was one of my good lines. However, having said that, when we came out of the chamber, he was always friendly and open, and I was with him.

It's possible to have kind of reasonable relations with people without having to agree with them. David Cameron was always very distant and kind of snarky to me. Osborne never was. But we were never mates. Why do you think David Cameron was more distant? Was that just how he was maybe? I think if you talk to Conservative MPs

about what he was like to them, there was always a sort of a distance, I think he was less emotionally giving. I think he always had a sort of sense of place. George Osborne was a sort of, you know, didn't get to eaten. I think in his mind he'd always seen themselves as a bit more of an outsider, a challenger. And I think he was just interested in the world

and quite like talking to people. and more intellectually engaged. But I got asked by the BBC around about the Strictly time would I like to do a panorama with George Osborne about the state of Britain? And I said, I didn't want to do that. It's like Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira meeting up. Yeah, but I just wasn't ready to do that.

I'd actually been rang up by, and I had a text for Michael Patello in 2015 and a week after the election saying, would I like to make a panorama about losing? And I said, absolutely not, Michael. It's the last thing I want to do. Why? Because it was much too raw.

Really? It was kind of like me and Michael Tillo's reflect, I didn't really want to be the Michael Portillo of my generation and the fact that I was was one thing but to actually kind of embody it so quickly after the election. That was too much I was still kind of dealing with what was going on so no. He'd had a whole book written, were you up for Portillo? That is right. But then we got asked to do the 2017 election coverage for ITV.

And the thing which was really interesting, it was a surprise election, And he was much more, you know, that George Osborne outside of the chamber that I'd seen before. Open, reflective, self-deprecating, willing to be critical of himself, but also what he saw. He wasn't taking the party line. I absolutely wasn't as well, not at least because it was Jeremy Corbyn, but in general I kind of felt I'd moved on from that. And then we did the same in 2019. team and then we got asked by the Andrew Neal program on Channel 4 to do a sort of double act with Andrew Neal every Sunday and that carried on and he was open and reflective and he could

laugh at himself and we could laugh at each other and so when it we got started getting asked whether we'd like to turn that into a podcast I'm not sure we were whether we would have done but then Channel 4 said they had to have a break from the Andrew Neal program I think for commissioning financial reasons and so we thought well in that case why don't we see what it's like I think it's quite a serious podcast quite a lot of economics in it

but then it's also quite funny and reflective then I understand it and I like it and I think I'm quite a good litmus test because I don't really know anything about economics at all and it frightens me quite honestly do you know what to mean anything to do with money or economics it frightens me I like it and I feel

and also I think it turns out George Osborne doesn't know anything about it either which is like a great relief So George keeps saying, I think we should explain that for the listeners, shouldn't we, Ed? Which means, I don't know what that word meant, can you say? So, you know, the fact of his chance to accept is slightly shocking. But, you know, he went through a phase of calling me the boffin. But I think, you know, I think I would just say, you know, basic education, George. It interests me.

There are some times I listen to the podcast where, and I really like this, where I think you encourage him to slightly tear down, because it takes a while for people. people to do that. I think you encourage him, you're good for him, you encourage him to tear down that persona you have to put across as an MP. So for example, sometimes you'll be talking, you know, someone will send in a question or they'll be answering something or you'll be talking about something like, you know, how does it work? Is there a tussle for who sits where, for example, in the House of Cockburn? And he will say, well, no, how it works is that the leader sits here and you say, well, no, actually, that's not my experience at all. It is a real

tussle and there is a lot of hierarchy and then he thinks, oh, okay, I don't have to do this anymore. Do you know what I mean? And I think he started even the podcast. At that point, the Conservatives hadn't been in opposition for 14 years. Although he had come out of being Chancellor, the party was still in government and making part of him was thinking, could I still be in government? And what opposition does is it makes you stand back and sort of think harder about what you got wrong and be more reflective.

and I didn't know on the first week whether he would do the podcast in a sort of more like he was still a player and he hasn't done at all and that's why it's worked because as you say he's much more inclined to say why he's changed his mind to be kind of openly critical of himself

and he doesn't mind when we he doesn't mind being teased I mean, you know, he has so many jobs. And so I'll say, you know, we're late again this week because George's got another one of his jobs. And he doesn't mind. Or I'm continually, you know, I needle him about the Bullington Club. And he doesn't seem to mind.

And can you part, because it's a difficult thing, Ed, because I understand, you know, and I do understand this whole, you've got to, you know, you can't live in an echo chamber. You've got to, I understand this idea of, you know, disagreeing. and you have to listen to other people, and especially being an MP for so long you had to. That was the nature of the job. But are you able to separate what someone say voting conservative from them as a person? Because isn't it about values sometimes?

And if someone like George Osborne, I think, well, let's say I'd been going to food banks and I look at him and I think you're responsible for austerity. And how do you do that? Well, I think that there are some podcasts where people say we disagree reasonably, but actually they agree pretty much all the time. And that's okay. If that's your view of the world and you basically hate the government and think Brexit was all terrible and think Boris Johnson was the worst person. And so everything is essentially reinforcing of your worldview. And within that there'll be some disagreement, but it's quite small. It's like I can imagine you would have dinner together

Whereas you and George It's a club It doesn't feel like he's coming with a lasagna any time soon No offence to him But equally it's like your worlds don't seem to collide Is what I'm saying And they never have Yeah

On the other hand there's an other The opposite extreme The sort of American Crossfire Where you put people on a panel To basically take lumps out of each other The whole time So I present Good Morning Britain With Andrew Pierce and Kevin McGuire

Every morning And the audience loves them Going each other And if they agree, there's actually a bit of a pain because what they want is the disagreement. And we are, I think, on the one hand, people who can have a reasonable conversation and talk about what we agree on and talk about what is mutual. But then there'll also be times where we reveal a different worldview. So if you take the conversation we had about the two-child cap on welfare benefits,

which George Osborne introduced and defends, and he defends it morally, as you why should these people get this money when people who are working hard in jobs don't get it? And I defend it morally, which is I absolutely reject that worldview. There's no reason why the kids should suffer. And the truth is having children is expensive. And the idea that you stigmatise people with more than three or four children is somehow f reckless or not pulling their weight is wrong in a moral. And as you say, it's not just on the issue.

It's a different view of what is the good society. Yeah, it's not just about policy. What we didn't do, I made this decision. I think both has made this decision. But if we'd started the podcast from the beginning, rowing in a cross far way, why would you have that in your ears walking around a beautiful park? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's possible to even disagree in a way which is respectful and thoughtful

and try to understand the difference. But if you suppress your values in the pursuit of agreement, what's the point where's your politics got? I don't think we do that. Do you draw a line though? So, for example, you made a, can I say brilliant documentary. It's called Trumpland? Yeah, travels and Trump land.

I loved it. I mean, to go back to you on this thing about my surname, we actually wanted to call it balls to Trump. In the end, they chased travels in Trump land, which is great, but balls to Trump would have been better. So some of the people that you encounter, there. And I thought that was very, there was some very peak ed moments where you were meeting these women. I'm not saying they'd had surgery. I'm just saying. They had surgery. They really had. It was these palm beach. They call themselves the trumpets. Yeah, the trumpets. And you go to this dinner and at one point, and by the way, I don't know, I think you can still get this on Amazon this documentary. So do have a look at it because it's so fascinating. And you obviously are reserving judgment because that's your job. You're doing your Louis Therou. But I can tell there was one night when you go to this dinner

and it's kind of offensive what you're hearing about Barack Obama partly because it's lies. It's absolute bare-faced lies. And you attempt to discuss this with her, don't you? And you say, I'm really struggling with this. What actually happened was we filmed a conversation at the beginning of the episode. Each one of those episodes, which is an hour of TV, was a fortnight of filming in 100 hours. so a lot of time.

And that was with a group of the women at a Palm Beach Club. And I was listening and reacting, but I didn't think that my job was to pile in and judge. What I wanted the audience to do is to hear for themselves and make their own minds up. But then the conversation you referred to there was the last thing we filmed at the end of the, fortnight. What I just said to her, I've got to say, that is wrong. She said, well, I'm sorry.

I don't want to talk like this. I'm having a nice evening. I thought she was going to walk out. But it was actually, and I think that the, but the method was, and this goes back to a view about politics and a view about my constituency. And I think a view about Brexit, which is that you fail in politics if you judge before you listen. Right. And that the thing you have to do, even when people are disagreeing with you or say they're going to vote a different way, you have to go in and hear and listen and absorb. And the moment you tell them you're wrong, the kind of conversation has ended. They're not going to listen to you from that moment on. But if you listen and try and understand, that allows you to shape how you then solve the problem,

to try and deal with the grievance. And in Trumpland, what I did was I went in knowing that, huge numbers of my audience would think these Trump voters were about to encounter are going to be extreme right-wing, racist off the war. But I knew I had met very many people who had voted Brexit or were going to vote Brexit in my constituency, were voting Tory, who were not bad people at all. In fact, they were decent, hard-working people, but they felt as though they weren't being listened to and things weren't right and fair. And actually, what we did in Trumpland, I think most of the time is we confounded people's expectations

because people thought, I mean, so not. Now I understand why Trump has this reach, because this really reasonable, nice person is explaining to us why they're voting for this guy we all think is wild. Do you remember Marta who had swum the Rio Grande, age 15, as an illegal immigrant to catch up with her family? And 25 years on, she's voting Trump in Texas. And she says, well, you know, because the thing about the wall is, there's too many bad people coming in.

And you think, but Marta, you were one of them. She says, I know, but in the end, you know, we can't let the wrong guys in. And her family were crossed with her. But you wouldn't look at Marta and say, you know, this middle age, Mexican, community-spirited, hardworking, really nice person. She didn't conform to the Trump caricature at all. And if you don't hear that, then you don't understand what's going on. Well, maybe...

And that's what politics listens first. But so here's a question. you manage that and you're right you have to do that politically. Are you like that at home? Are you like that in real life, Ed? I think when we're talking about family things. So me and my oldest daughter in particular have a trait, which is we don't need to say anything

for anybody to know what we think. And so I think I'm sometimes a little bit too revealing simply with how I look. So if we're having a conversation and I'm trying to listen and not be judgmental. Sometimes I slightly convey that. I certainly wear my heart or my emotion or my reaction on my sleeve. And every now and then doing Good Morning Britain,

I don't need to say anything for me to look like. I just think what's being said is ridiculous. So I'm not an angry shouting kind of person. What does angry, Ed, look like? How would I know you were angry? The most extreme pressure you face professionally is when you're a cabinet minister. and it's and it's and it's and it's and it's well it's because you have such responsibility and things

go wrong and it's not of your choosing and you've got to deal with them in those moments or people people have let you down and I would say you know there are some politicians who in those moments of stress shout or throw things and I think the people who work with me would say that that that it was that I would go quiet that I'd be the person who you would, I would just kind of just not want to carry on the conversation. I'd want to sort of stop the meeting and shut the door and be in my room and try and work out what the hell I was going to do. So I think probably the times when family know I'm cross is when I'm quiet, not voluble.

Do you think in order to be to reach the heights that you've reached and indeed a vet has reached, you know, cabinet level positions, etc. You have to have what I call the astronauts trait, which is, you know, when you hear that Houston, we have a problem? Yeah. And when you hear it, what's fascinating is he doesn't say what I would have said, which was Houston, we've got a problem. He says, Houston, we're going to have a problem here. It's that sort of calmness under pressure. You hear it when that guy, the captain, lands the plane on the Hudson.

And he says, we're going to have to land on the Hudson. You are sort of having to deal with similar things. you're dealing with, you know, things that affect people's lives on a daily basis. Do you think you do have that astronauts, Trey? The biggest danger in politics is actually denial, is there being a problem and you're just trying to close your mind to even think about it because that problem is too hard to deal with. And I think one of the things that you learn is, you're to listen to your physical reaction.

So then times when you feel that sort of tension, that sickness inside in your stomach, is always dangerous to block that out, but also what you can't do is allow that to take you over because then you then can't make good decisions. And so hearing those moments, staying calm and then turning that into action, it's probably what you have to be able to do.

And you know, when I was, when I started out in the cabinet, I discovered I had a stammer, when I became a cabinet minister, didn't go public with it for two years, through my life since that moment, 2007, I've become very good at in moments of tension and pressure, staying calm, because that is the way in which I control my stammer, whereas in the early period, it would tense me up and that would then restrict my speech, and I'd find it very hard to articulate. There was a really sweet thing on the Morning Britain

when you hugged Gareth Gage. Oh yeah. But I think what people often don't realise with Stammers and I didn't realise, to be honest, Ed, completely until I heard about you, is that it's not always stuttering. No. People think it's one thing.

In your case, it's like your, not your brain shuts down, but you just can't get the words out. You freeze almost, don't you? That's right. And I think actually it may be the more common type of stammer, but it's also something which very many people will go through the whole life, not understanding or even articulating to their partner or their work colleagues, they'll just avoid situations. So the common type of stamina that we see is a stammer Gareth has,

where he stammers and can't get his words to come. But the type I have is what's called interiorized rather than an exterior. So it happens inside. And it's called a block. So when you're speaking, you can't get the words to come. You get, you get that block. Do people ever laugh at you in politics for that? Oh, loads, but loads, but then until I went public and talked about it, and I think once people understand, it's harder for them to laugh, but more importantly, once you believe that people know, it takes a lot of the pressure off. And what I learned to do is to ride blocks. you know to be technical about stammering so when i'm doing breakfast tv i'm on a live show for three

hours i'm doing all this auto queue reading i will stammer regularly through the show i'll have blocks but i can just i stay calm and ride through them and just carry on and susanna read in particular she seems lovely she's she's fabulous and she's totally brilliant professional but she's also because we've done a lot together she now knows there's these moments which are actually i think imperceptible. It's certainly not perceptible to the audience, but she will see that's happening. And I think when she didn't understand it to begin with, she would think he has a problem, do I need to jump in? And now she stays relaxed with me. I come out the other side and we just carry on. And it's just, so learning that kind of calmness was very important for me,

for the stammer as well as decision making. And I think, uh, I think, uh, is it's so hard to generalise because if you are a creative, if you're a composer or a genius, maybe your genius emerges through your moments of passion and anxiety. And maybe if you're a politician, you also have to have moments where you kind of, for some people, that you show your frustration and you kind of shout at the moon. But I think in the end, end the politicians who survive and are good at governing are the ones who know how to stay calm and to stay level-headed and think okay so what are we going to do without with but without denial the denials the denials the catastrophe what was that thing recently ed people were getting a bit up in arms

because you'd interviewed it there yeah that was a kind of it's a tough one i mean i don't think i ever expected to to become a breakfast TV presenter. Wasn't part of my life plan, but actually I love it because we do very serious politics, but we also do lots of culture, lots of kind of health issues dealing with people, the lessons you learn from whether it's Gareth Gates about ex-stamering or, you know, a mum last week whose daughter had an anaphylactic shock and what lessons they learn from that tragedy. and it's sort of so it's very real and I know the we all know how much

the program matters to the audience and so compared to my expectations I love doing it but I'm interviewing politicians and Conservative and Labour and I have to do it in a very I think you know my style is

to I want the politicians to succeed I want them to give a good answer I want them to answer I want them to answer the question I don't start ever with you're just a politician you aren't going to give us a good answer but I feel as though if they don't give me an answer then I want to push them and I

and I guess I haven't done it for so long and know what questions to ask and I've interviewed Kier Stama and Rachel Reeves and Angela Raina and David Lammy lots of times and as well as conservative politicians and I don't think anybody would say I'm any less reasonable or tough on either of them but I'm also married to a vet

and we had talked about this on the show, the editors, and the decision we had made was if we were in a situation where a vet was coming on, the best thing to do given we're married was me not to ask the questions. And so the decision I'd made was that I would recuse, but that particular Monday was the day after the riots. And just down the road from here in Rotherham, people trying to set fire to a the hotel and this wasn't an issue of party politics it's not policy anymore

it was actually about a national crisis and labour Tory liberal democrat whatever you knew this was terrible and I thought to myself in that situation if I then say

I recuse myself it's like I'm walking away from a responsibility to talk about the biggest issue facing our country at that moment and so I spoke to the editor the night before and said I know what we discussed

in advance but what do you think and the management all went away and talked about it and said you should ask questions but we should be very clear about your relationship and this was the you know the I think the exception and then you know there's some people complain actually almost I think a lot of the complaints were also about an interview we did with former Labour MP that morning offcom has looked at it and are not investigating they don't think there's any issue to to look at and you move on and you know I've got a responsibility to do this job not only in a off-com broadcast code consistent way but also in a way which is really respectful to all of our audience

and to the people we interview and that's what I'm trying to do and that's what I'm going to carry on doing as long as they want me I'm carrying it well it's interesting not every politician I don't think could, it's a bit like footballers, only a handful of them have got what it takes to actually be pundits afterwards because it's a different skill set, isn't it? And I sort of think with MPs it's the same thing because a lot of MPs have something of the night about them. And I would say you feel like quite an open book. What I can do is see it from their perspective. If there's a cabinet to reach up a happening, if there's a crisis, if there is an election, I've seen that from the inside. So I can talk with Susanna or Kevin Andrew or the politician with that inside view, which I think

is interesting for the audience, because they don't very often hear that because it's a bit like the Gary Neville talking about what it's like in the dressing room about half time when you're teal and all down. Most football fans have never been in that situation. But somebody can tell how it feels, what's going on now. That is an insight. And I think the second thing is I, and this is what George Osborne and I do, because we've been there,

we've seen what happens and how things develop. So as somebody said to me the other day, our podcast looks around corners. We are talking now about what we think this is going to mean in two, three months, six months, nine months, and what they need to do now for that not to be a problem. And I do that in Good Morning Britain as well. And I think the other thing is, I think I know the question I wouldn't want to be asked in their situation.

And I think I know, or I try hard, Suzanne and I both do this. We're thinking all the time, what is the question the audience wants us to ask? And that is something which is independent of party politics. Our job is to... Isn't that about emotional intelligence, though, Ed? Maybe you've got that. I think you got that from your mum. I think I got that for my mum.

My mum's great, great, great, great, great. No, my great, great, great grandfather on my mum's side. So her three times. Also went to prison in 1820. This is, is it for the, and then in the swing riots? Yeah. It's really awkward because I watch, sure who do you think you are, which again, I really recommend. It's a good one.

Can I tell you one of my favourite moments? It goes on to get a bit darker. near the beginning, well, you're chatting to this historian and you're saying, yeah, so I'm really interested. It turns out my great-great-grandfather Times Street, you know, he was a label surgeon and he was on, you know, HMS victory, so maybe he was at the Battle of Trafalgar, intending Nelson, and the historian says, it was such a great Ed Ball's moment. The historian says, yes, we have researched this. I'm afraid his job was to look after the crew members who's called venereal disease from sex workers. And Ed Ball says, I see.

It's such a meme. If you haven't seen it, please go on. He then goes on to lose his job. It's quite bad. Oh, it's quite tough. I'm afraid he does a very... I know. A very bad thing.

You have to see it in its cultural context. Yes, you do, but it's... But, you know. But I loved... I see. I see. Okay. I think we do not need to pursue that one further.

Are you very good with money? Money? Yeah, because... I expect a chancellor knows his way around a pension or two. Like, Howard, what would the kids say about you? Are you generous? Are you let me get this? Or are you, I only had the soup?

I organise the money rather than a vet. You have different roles in a relationship. I cook and pay the bills. And a vet organises holidays and always organise like child care and stuff. I know where it is, and I think we've been sensible. But I'm not somebody who thinks, I tend to think, let's spend it and then see if it's a good idea after. Yeah.

Within reason. Like some governments, I know. Borrow to invest. There's nothing left. Look, we've had our mortgages. But, no, I think we're kind of being careful, but not skinflinty. One last question I'd like to ask you. What do you think of our two miles, by the way?

Have you enjoyed it? Do you know? It's honestly one of the nicest walks I've ever done. Don't tell Ed Miliband that. We have gone all the way around there. It's a brilliant two-mile walk. If you do that, you sort of feel like it's a proper walk. You may not have won the leadership contest against Ed Miliband,

but I think you have... This isn't my top three walks. Trouble is, you see, he talks to talk. But, you know, we've walked the walk. Are you a crier? Do you cry a lot? Oh my God, it's a nightmare. Yeah, regular. Same point in the sound of music every time.

You love the sound of music. Yvette's made you clothes and things, the whole family. We went to Salzburg for the tour. I always cried... You didn't just go to Saltzburg? What happened? Did Yvette? Didn't she make your clothes to her?

There was a Sound of Music bicycle tour, which you can do takes four hours. When you go on bikes with a tour guide with a beatbox, you go to every scene in the movie, play the music. But Yvette said, that is not enough. So she sat on the train. going from Paris to Munich and then Salzburg with this curtain material and she made

necker cheese for the girls and then these like top part of a you know what do you call it like braces thing you know like um like Laderhosen. Like Laderhosen. And they and we all wore them all day going around. So singing the songs. So sound of music makes you cry. Always in the same place. Exactly, actually exactly the moment. What is it? And I think it is the most emotional moment in the film. Kids have been playing in their curse. They've just bought in the water with Maria.

Dad comes back, the Baron with the Baroness, from where have they been, Vienna. He's cross, makes them all line up, blows his whistle, sacks Maria. Oh, it's awful. They go into the living room and then they play sound of music and sing it in harmony. And he joins in and it's the first moment. Music has come back into the house since the death of his wife. since the death of his wife and he knows that was Maria.

She has brought joy and music back and he can't believe he sacked her. And in that moment, that is the epiphany moment of the whole film. I cry it every time. It's so moving. Do you know what it reminds me of when Tess the retriever came into your house? But I've also cried in Antiques Roadshow and actually even in one man and his dog. The point went in one man and his dog. They give the command and the dog just delivers.

think man and dog it's so moving do I don't know whether Raymond would ever be a sheep dog I would describe that as a quite politically handled head the way you said that but were you to say to Raymond gone blur whistle and he went and round up a few sheep in Pontefrette Park in that moment I'd been I'd been floods oh he's loved this walk he didn't he didn't walk a lot of it I know he walked a fair bit of it oh Ed, you're so kind to him lying on his behalf. That's Finn. That's Finn. Ed Balls, I have loved our walk. Have you?

I had a very good time. Have you? I have. Can I just say, compared to yesterday when I ran around this twice, this has been so, so much more enjoyable. Oh my goodness, so much more. And has Raymond inspired you maybe to think about getting a dog? Look, it's one thing. Remember a politician starts a sentence with look.

Look. No, that's the stammer. Oh, is it? Yeah, the look is the launch word. So look gets me going. If I don't say the word look, it's hard to start. Whereas if I say, look, or... Isn't that interesting? That's really clever.

So those are words that... Look, off. But I think I was sceptical even before this moment about the fact that I would end up doing all the dog walking. But now I realise I'd have to carry him as well. Frankly, you know, can I just say, I will walk your dog any time you like? happy to step in and do a little bit of, you know,

but like a good grandparent, I want to be able to say at a certain point, I'm off. Ed, we've loved it. Raymond, will you say goodbye to lovely Ed Ball? It's nice to see you, Raymond. And we'll listen to political currency and the coal on the way home. He likes your voice.

Very good. He's a very lovely dog. Is he in there? There he is. Oh, my gosh. Bye-bye. When you see his eyes, you suddenly realise, yes, it is a dog.

I mean, I think that's a compliment. It is a compliment. It is a compliment. Ed, thank you. you bye-bye see you later oh head balls that's not a bad dog is it

look how it's excited it is I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog we'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts