Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Emily Maitlis

Episode Date: June 10, 2019

This week Emily goes out for a walk with broadcaster, journalist and Newsnight presenter Emily Maitlis and her beautiful whippet Moody. They talk about Emily’s childhood in Sheffield, the question she wishes she’d asked Bill Clinton, and proposing to her husband on millennium eve. She also chats about her new book Airhead, which goes behind the scenes of some of her most pivotal career moments.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Because he's a whippet and he runs really fast, he gets called all sorts of things. And I end up saying, you know, sort of running through the park going, pants, panty, panty, panty face, pan. And then I suddenly did, oh my God, somebody's listening to this. This week on Walking the Dog, I went out with broadcaster, journalist and news night presenter Emily Maitliss and her beautiful Whippet Moody. We took our stroll in London's Kensington Gardens. I say stroll. This woman is a serious power walk. If you hear any huffing and puffing, that'll be me, trying to keep up with the human dynamo.

Emily is such a fascinating person to talk to. She's had an incredible career. We chatted about her interview with Bill Clinton and the question that she really agonized over not asking him, her tough interrogation of Theresa May, and we also discussed her childhood in Sheffield, and an extraordinary female friend she made who saved her from the meme girls. Emily also talked about her new book Airhead, which takes you through some of the most pivoting moments of her career. And it's an absolutely brilliant read. I really recommend it. I loved my walk with my namesake. She was great company. She was incredibly warm and chatty, but she was also really

honest, which was actually what sold her to me the most. I should say there's also a rather special guest appearance on this episode. During our walk, we ran into the very first person to ever guest on the Walking the Dog podcast. It was only Alan Carr, out with his English setters, a man just can't get enough of me. I really hope you like my chat with Emily. Her book Airhead is available now in Hardback, and I urge you to read it because I think you'll love it. Do remember to rate, review and subscribe to Walking the Dog on iTunes

if you want to hear more. I'll stop talking now and hand you over to the woman herself. Here's Emily. Where's Moody gone? Here. Literally. Oh, he's right back. He's literally here.

This is how I walk. Here's the ham. Come on, Moody. And here's Moody. What have you got in? your hand? You've got a hand. What's that for then? That's to entice him. It's not for me. But I haven't even introduced the podcast properly. I'm so excited because the person I'm interviewing today, I'm sure you'll recognise her voice. It's hard not to. She's rarely off

the screens. I mean, the very wonderful Emily Maitliss and we had to reorganise this because it was raining and she didn't want to subject her whip it moody to the elements, which I understand. That's also my excuse. Blame the dog. Whenever you don't want to do anything in the rain, blame the dog. We should say we're in, were you introduced where we are, Emily.

Well, it's just actually glorious today. We're in Hyde Park. Walking under bright green lime trees, the sort of colour of the inside of broad beans. And it's really sunny and blue and creamy white clouds. Oh, I love this. I feel like I'm listening to an audio book. I was like that one that's a S-D-I.

I'm going to send you all to sleep in about two seconds. Do you like walking and are you? I get the impression of you as a sort of up early, up-and-at-in-person. I run with him. So our normal thing is a sort of park circuit and then a swim in the serpentine. And we have slightly different running speeds, obviously, because he is rather good at short short.

dark bursts and I'm not, but he is then really, really lazy and nobody realizes that. They think if you have a Wippet, that you've got to be sort of hyper-energetic. And people don't realize that Wippets actually spend 23 hours a day being a couched potato after they've had their sort of first burst. Do they get knackered then? They just... I don't know if they're knackered or if they're just, honestly, just intractably lazy. I think he's never had...

He's got a very, very low heartbeat. So he's just really calm. He's the calmest dog you'll ever meet. I mean, he's absolutely beautiful. I mean, I don't want to be shallow and just refer to as looks. But he's, this is so Moody. I want to know why Moody the Whippet is called Moody, because it's a brilliant name.

Well, no, I mean, it's a bit weird, actually. It's a bit, you know, I'm not particularly proud of it, but we sort of picked him up and we had small kids at the time, and they were sort of trying out all these names and shall we call him this and bluey and grey and all the things that sort of kids come about. And he's six years old, born on February the 22nd.

And the kids, I think they've been really all sorts of things. And then they were sort of going, what about Mindy and Mukki and then they said Moody. Yeah. And my husband burst out laughing because this makes us sound like a really sad family. and I apologise in advance, but we've been listening on the news

to the chance of the economic forecast and we'd just been downgraded as a AAA nation status because our finances were shot to pieces. And so Moody's had just downgraded us and we'd lost our AAA rating. And so the kids are messing around and go, let's call him Monday or Mindy or Moody.

And Mark and I burst out laughing. We were like, oh yeah, Moody, that's really good. Let's all celebrate the day that we completely, you know, became an economic basket case. And so we're laughing at this and then we're like, yep, that's it, okay? Named after us becoming an economic basket case. And so the name stuck.

And so he gets, so his name is moody, but obviously he gets called Moods. And then because he's a whipper and he runs really fast, he gets called all sorts of things. And I end up saying, you know, sort of running through the park going, pants, panty, panty, panty face, and then suddenly did it, oh my God, he's listening to this and just seeing this mad woman in a tennis skirt running towards him going

panty face panty face because i've tried to explain what the dog is doing not what i'm wearing and so they do i mean he gets called terrible names i mean if you want to get inside somebody's psyche ask them their pet names for their pet inside their own home because it's it's just awful no i've got loads i call i'm really embarrassed i didn't bring my dog raymond today he's a shitsuit Well, you know what, Emily, he's beautiful, but he's sort of like a little e-walk. And I think he would have really struggled to... He walks for about two seconds and then he gives up. Right.

I love the idea of an e-wok. He's up there. He is, but I have weird names for him. I call him... So you look at him now, right? So he gives us a head start and then he just comes like pounding along. Wow, we're just looking at Moody, racing to walk. Wow, wee.

You are amazing. Hi, Pantface. So Ewok stayed at home. So live and silky. He's also very sexist. Is it? Yeah. So he's very sick.

Well, I sounded a bit sexist saying he's so lithe and silky there. No, I think you're allowed to. The balance. Why is he sexist? He's, I mean, I've definitely noticed it. You know, they always talk about who's the sort of, who is the sort of PAC leader. And even though I'm his, you know, pat leader in terms of I run him, I walk him, all the rest of it, If I'm on my own with him, he just fucks around.

Does it? Yeah. And if I'm with like a big tall man running, he'll be like, oh yeah, I've got to keep up. Oh yeah, you're with this bloke. And I get really angry with him because where does it come from? And so today, can I say, there's four of us, right? We're walking. It's a little bit before.

And so that's kind of touch wood. That's enough of an incentive for him to say, oh, it's not just her on her own. Come here. Here. Come here, sweetheart. Eminently bribable. Sit down, please. Yeah, you can bribe him.

Yeah. Beautiful. Did you enjoy that? So, Emily, what was your relationship with animals when you were growing up? Because you, I mean, you moved around a bit, didn't you? You were, were you born in Canada? No, I actually, I lived in the same, I mean, I moved around in the sense that I was, like, born in Canada. Yes.

But actually, by the time I was two, we lived in the same house. We lived in the same house all my life. Yeah. And weird, and my parents still have that house, and the telephone number has never changed. And so it's slightly weird, you know, sort of like... Was this in Sheffield? In Sheffield, you know, 45 years of my life, sort of knowing the same phone number off my heart. It's kind of really weird, you know.

I think that's really lovely. It's lovely. Yeah, it is nice. And so we had... My mother owned a dog when she was growing up, Bobby. Yeah. But my dad has always been sort of allergic, slightly, you know, asthmatic. So cats and dogs and that sort of stuff were... all was out when we were kids and so I had...

And this is you and your two sisters. Me and my first pet was Humphrey who was a gerbil and it was extraordinary actually. Can they count gerbils? Oh my god yes. Really? Yeah Humph was, I ran him on the lawn. I ran him on the lawn and he came back. I mean I can't actually believe that now. He used to run along the the lawn. We had a sort of, you know, not a big lawn but something you can, something you can. could play badminton on.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so he'd run on the lawn and then he'd sort of come back into my arms. And he spent the whole time, all my jumpers were sort of chewed. He spent the whole time up the arms of my cardigans and jumpers. And so I'd open the door with a little nose peeping out the sort of collar of my, you know, VDET or whatever or in the pocket.

And he lived till he was about six, which I think in durable terms is really, like really old. Oh, yeah. Paul at Hump. So he, I think actually he had, for a caged animal, he had a really good life. He had a decent life. And we were very close, and that was lovely. And then I had Florence, who was a mouse, little black mouse.

And she was a sweetheart. You know, not quite as exciting as Humphrey, but a sweet little thing. And did you, because your dad was a university professor? Yes. So was it chemistry? Yes.

So was it kind of a sciencey family? Is it like an academic? No, no. My dad, well, it's hard to say. My dad was a sort of brilliant scientist, but the sort of black sheep really because he... I'm following you, by the way. Oh, fine. Let's just...

Well, I know. I always do this. I march off in foreign cities if I know where I am. No, I'm just, I'm sort of leading us down there. No, I feel safe with you. Mood! I think you're the person in the group that I would... Already, I feel you're the social architect.

I've got the umbrella. I'm waving the umbrella. Yes, you're on. You're on. The umbrella purse. and you're like, right, we're going this way. Yeah, no, dangerous. It's good.

So go on. So your parents... So my dad is very silencing. My mother is very artsy. And confusingly, my dad is also very good languages. So he's sort of quite humanities... You know, he's very bored, actually. But that's connected, isn't it often?

I mean, isn't it a cliche that sort of idea that... But it's science and language. Maybe. I always... I always think to think that. Anyway, I'm... I'm not really science at all. My middle sister is very good at science and maths and all that stuff.

And my elder sister is very much more artsy. So, yeah. Was your mom a psychotherapist or something? She is. Yeah, she's a, she still places. People whose parents are involved in that line of work tend to be quite well adjusted on the whole. Oh, God, no.

No, I think the opposite sometimes. I think there's normally really good. reason why they've had to go into it. No, I wouldn't say that at all. But it was interesting for my mum. She, I mean, she retrained at the age of 60. So she did her, she did a second, maybe another degree in her 60s and said she, she got to a stage where I think a lot of her friends were going through, you know, grief losing their partners. Yeah, yeah. It's that time of life. It was that time of life and she just, remember saying she wanted to have the sort of tools to be able to talk to them properly, you know, and say the right thing and not kind of go, oh, I'm sure to be fine. Yeah, yeah.

You know, whatever. You'll be fine. That's the most punchable thing someone can say to you. There's just so many punchable things. And I think she was sort of savvy enough to get that quite early. Oh, that's going on here. Oh, that looks like dog yoga. Oh, is that lovely?

Well, what I really mean by that is somebody kicking their. legs of the air and the dog's fast to sleep next to them. The dog is not doing the downward dog. The dog is doing the child's pose. Exactly. Almost see the fast to sleep. It looks like a lion. Yes, maybe it is. Let's see what Moody's going over to say hello. Oh, this dog is huge Emily. Look. Yeah, that's basically a bear. Is that a grizzly? It's a grizzly bear, yeah. Oh, is that like Nana from Peter Pan? Do you think? I think now there's a beagle. No, no. Oh. I think Nana's a Newfoundland.

Oh, maybe you're right. I think that is a new found. There's a lot of quite hot dogs here. What, as in attractive or... Yeah, now it's how I go, some flea bag, really hot, really hot dog. Excuse me, is this dog a newfoundland? Of course, you are, you're a...

Hello, sweetie. She looked really pleased that I got that wrong. Oh, little chat. This dog is absolutely huge. Moody's not sure, because... The giant He just wants to run. He wants to sort of wind somebody up and have a run.

Should you go and find you another whipet or something? I think physically they're just not ill-suited. Now look, that's our servant-time. I think we should go round. Okay, let's go there. So, yeah, so, yeah, so your... So, we didn't want your pet, no, but you didn't want your mum.

So she did that later in life, actually. So when you were growing up, she was sort of a homemaker. She was, she taught, I mean, She started teaching in, fun enough, in New York State, very troubled kids from, you know, tough backgrounds. And so she had worked in the US and worked as a teacher. There's Alan. Alan. I thought it was you.

Hello, look, and I'm twice waving a bag of dogs. Well, aren't we all? Hello, you. Hello. Do you know, Emily? Hi. Hi. Who's that?

Who's that? That's, that's Tuppence. I'm doing the podcast at the moment with Emily. Oh shit. No, it's all right. Bev's got a lot of spit dangling from a mouth. Who's done this podcast. Yes.

And I waved a bag of dog poo at you. And I did that to the head of ITV the other day. I was like, waving my bag of poo. And he's walking. Is this Bev or Joy? That's Bev. And she's got dribbling. Watch out to talk dribble.

She's got bad ribble. She has got bad ribble. And that's the one we rescued from Korea, Little Tuppence. But she started dry humping bed. Well, I didn't know about that storyline. I know. Who saw that coming? So, yeah.

Hello, here. Emily's my friend. Alan. Thank you. Adored seeing you. Yeah. I'm waving my doctor. See you soon.

Hello. These are my girls. Hello, I'm lovely to meet you. Randomly, Alice. Lovely to meet you. This is what we do. We have the dogs and the running and the swim. The girls are just, well, no, we're all just swammer.

Bluebell's hilarious. Bluebell gets in the pool and tries to pretend she's our daughter. Oh, so nice. You've got to go, you got to go. Bye girls. Really nice to meet you. No, Bluebell is no. I have hand, as you would say.

as you would say. Bluebell. How nice to run into your friends. Oh, you see, now we've lost moods for the whole day. No, Moody's got the friends now. Yeah. That was lovely. I love that.

See, that's what I love about dog walking. It's just running into people and that social interaction, I think. It's really lovely in the morning. Well, any time of day, but just, I just think it's a good thing to do. You know, just to get out the house and chat to people outside of your sort of work as well. Totally. Totally. So tell me, so yes, we're talking about when you were growing up and were you, I mean, I'm assuming you were the straight A academic student.

I don't think I was. I think I was very brainwired to find some subjects really easy and some really hard. So I actually found maths really hard. Yeah. I don't know that it was teaching or whether I just, you know, so I nearly didn't do O-level. and then he did like, what was it called? CSE? You know? Oh, yes, CSE. I was not very good at maths.

Yeah. I was not very good at science. I think my dad has never been prouder than when I got a bee in chemistry because it was just, you know, it was sort of family business. Family business, exactly. And he was never, he never expected it. I think that's the most gracious thing about my dad. He never pushed us towards sciences or to his line or to equity or whatever. And so, no, I really struck.

I remember biology thinking I'm terrible at biology, but I got quite early that you can teach yourself. You can pretty much teach yourself if you have to. And I remember just wading through the let's, whatever it was called. You know, let's biology, let's study, let's thing, just learning. Yeah. And once you kind of work out. Are you quite good at sort of applying yourself like that and setting yourself goals and tasks, you know? I think it's really interesting.

I think girls have the girly swat thing. Not all girls, but they have it more easily than boys. And I found it really funny, raising boys, who come back and I say, you know, look at the and I go, well, what's that? And they go, oh no, that was just additional. That was just if you wanted to. And I'm like, well, of course you do it. And they were like, no, because I don't want to.

Yeah. And they were like, well, it wasn't really a question of, you know, if you want to. You're meant to show willing. And were you a sort of, I always talk about the group. that you inhabited socially when you were growing up when your childhood. And I always had, I grew up in North London, and I went to a school there, and there was a group I called the Pretty Team. And I never, I thought, well, I'm never going to join them,

because I don't sort of look quite right for the pretty team, but I'm just going to be the sort of joker in the pretty team, create a role from myself. Right, exactly right. So what did you, did you have a group? Did you hang out with you in the sort of, yeah I I never made it work properly actually there was six of us yeah in what you know the middle school years in Sheffield and it was really unhappy it was just sort of constantly falling out and splitting up and making up and quite bitchy and quite really horrible actually and I remember hitting big school you know kind of comprehensive school and finding this friend who was, she was so different and she just, you know, she had the wildest frizziest hair

and big glasses and she laughed at herself and she was quite sort of, you know, tubby at the time and she was just, she was a completely, she just wasn't interest in the things that all the other girls seemed to be interested at the time. And she just, I remember just her saying to me, why would you hang out with people that aren't very nice or that don't make you feel nice? happy and it was it was like the heavens had sort of opened and I was it was the most helpful thing anyone said to me in my charter you never forget oh my god no and so she and I then just had the most fantastic relationship and you know of just like laughter that's what I remember from sort of 12 to 15 16 just finding everything funny and we would honestly we'd spend our

Saturday so you could get anywhere in Sheffield on a bus for two P and that's what we would do. We would just travel around Sheffield on the top deck of buses for 2P just sort of telling stories and ending up in places that we didn't know and understand and just really lovely.

But I had to get out of that what I would call the mean girls kind of mentality. Yes, the mean girls, that's exactly right. And it's remained a really sort of key tenet now. It's just like don't hang out with people who don't make you feel good about yourself or who aren't kind. Who aren't kind?

And it wasn't, I don't mean it was about them particularly, but it was about getting into a mentality where you were trying to be something. And I wish, I sort of want to take every single kid aside and try and pass that on and say, it's just, you know, it's just not worth it. You're not going to have a happier time. I agree with you and it's so interesting. I'm so glad you had that friend who sort of pulled you out.

She was your savior really. It's Sam. We should give her name. Oh, Sam. Yeah, lovely Sam. Everyone needs a Sam. And I think it happens to different people at different times in their life. It took me quite a lot longer, I think, to realise that,

to sort of separate yourself from the mean girls. We've completely lost mood. Hey, Mooney! Normally, when I'm running, he has a bright green vest, a vest of shame. I might have to put it on him. Yeah, good idea. Moody! Right, I'm going to just...

Where is he? There, here he is. Bounding along with a bound. We lost Moody for a minute. Emily was quite calm. I would have been quite panicked by that. Oh my God, I lose him six times a week. Do you?

Yeah. But he knows, normally, it's really funny. Sometimes quite often I lose him in the park and I arrive at the serpentine cafe just as somebody's picked him up and booting him out. So when in doubt, he just goes to the cafe. No, but you were quite calm. I think that was quite a good insight into what you're, I suppose you have to be. Well, this is sort of home for him.

This is as a code red situation for me. No, I've lost him for long patches and sort of known that he'll be. It's only annoying if you lose a dog just before a really big interview. And you're like, I can't spend an hour looking for you now. It's really important. I don't have time I've got Bill Clinton waiting. I'm sorry, Moody. Well, we've now got his bright yellow jacket of shame on.

He looks like sort of Gilles-Logne, you know, French Revolutionary. He looks great. Yeah, he's got, I think he's got a sort of tab on. It's a bit trade union. It is, it is. What do we want more hands? High-Viz tab-on. Yeah, he's hyviz now.

But that is the point. He needs to be high-vis. So, I want to get on to... The friends thing. Yeah, so after the friends thing. So then your trajectory, you went to university. Went to university. A very good university.

Was that sort of expected of you, do you think, to go? I think my parents were... To Cambridge. really good at keeping expectations out. Yeah. So, I mean, I would say, you know, my sister went to the same university and my mum had gone to Oxford.

And so it wasn't sort of, it wasn't ever... Did your dad go to Cambridge? No, my dad went to Birmingham. Yeah. But then he kind of taught at Cornet, Earl and Harvard. So like, you know, they set the bar quite high. Yeah, the ball was high. It's quite sort of, I mean, it's sort of scarily high. But as I say, I think the best thing was they, they did, maybe because I was the last, you know, I was the last of three. And I think it's

so much easier for the third. But by the time it got to me, I don't remember having that pressure of, you've got to do this, you've got to, you know, get there or anything like that. so I feel I was lucky on that. And did you always know you were going to go into journalism? God no, I swore I wouldn't, weirdly. I mean, I didn't know what I want to do and I didn't really mind not knowing what I want to do. Yeah.

I applied, funny enough, to do Spanish and Italian. And my mum said, you're an idiot, don't do Spanish and Italian. You'll literally just mix up two languages and you won't be able to speak either. Yeah. And, of course, I did. And then I spent a summer in Italy

sort of working. And I remember thinking, actually, I don't need to study this. I can, you know, I can do this, I can speak, I love it. But I'm much more passionate about novels and literature and drama, you know, all that sort of stuff. Why am I doing it in a different language?

Yeah. So I swapped to English. And when you do it, do English, everyone who's doing a serious subject at university sort of treats you like you're a bit of a slacker. Yes, I felt that. I did English. It's funny, isn't it? I felt a little bit like that. Because you're working with, yeah, the lame artsy crowd. Exactly, and you didn't have, we didn't have exams at the end of the first year. Everyone treats you like you're basically a Dosser. Yeah. And then they said things to me like, oh, you know, are you going to be a journalist or an English teacher? You know, it was sort of, it was, it was almost like people had defined

you. She's lifting her arms. I think... Come on, Wonder Dog. I think. She's either seen a friend or she's welcoming... No, that was her welcome back to...

Moody. She just... That was very sweet. There was a very touching embrace then. I just saw you holding your arms out to Moody and it reminded me of that really iconic moment

when Princess Diana held her arms out to William and Harry when I think she'd been away on a royal tour for a while. Do you remember that? And everyone saw it as how symbolic of she was introducing being demonstrative and sort of affection. And that reminded me very much of that moment, you and me.

There are occasional moments when I come into the house and I go, how is your day, darling? And my son and my husband are both completely quiet. And they go, are you... Are you, is it for the dog? And I'm like, no, no, I'm actually talking to you. They're like, oh, we just assume you're talking to the dog. But so everyone basically gets the same.

But do you have the dog? Look how tiny that one is, Emily. Tiny. But do you have a dog voice? Too barking. Oh, do you think so? You see, my dog doesn't barky dogs. No.

Why would you have a dog that bark? No. I just made it very clear. As soon as he came into the house, I said, okay, we don't do that. The first time he made a noise, I just looked at him, and he's never done it since. It's funny. Was it a really tough look?

I'm quite scared of you now. So we were on the subject of your, when you decided to go into, after you've done your degree, and then you did decide to go into, you moved, didn't you essentially? I mean, yes, I did. I didn't. I think that was really bold, though.

It wasn't really like that. Going over to Asia. Yeah, exactly. I went to Asia because I think I graduated in the middle of a recession. And they were shutting down jobs and courses. and I was never very good at the sort of apply for this and fill out this and I hate that all the kind of admin just terrifies me. You know, why do you think you'd be good? I couldn't, I just didn't want to, I don't want to just sit there with 8,000 rejection letters.

Yeah. And I ended up going to Hong Kong, not really knowing anything, is it funny? I didn't really understand anything about our colonial past. I hadn't really studied the history of sort of empire. or colonialism or so I didn't really understand the whole that whole bit of history was missing from my head and Landy in Hong Kong and just going oh my God I see we're five years away from the handover and that's China and that's properly I kind of I understood communist China and I didn't understand the rest and so I it just became the most fascinating thing in the world

yeah it was the thing that we talked about and we we we just we puzzled over and how do you end up with this and what should we be doing and and so it was very natural at that point to go into, I was actually started in radio and quite hard for me at the beginning made all the mistakes in the book but knew that it was something that was genuinely exciting and it had a sort of time and a place and I think one of the things sort of defines me. I'm I I live life. very fast. I do everything very fast. I can really sense that. Can you? Yeah, but I think that's, I'm in awe of people like that. I don't think it's good. I think, you know, why not?

Well, because, you know, because occasionally I think you can miss, you know, I, I sort of do this like, oh, amazing, I've got here, there, there, got the perfect coffee. And instead of being the person that then spends an hour drinking the perfect coffee, I spend three minutes drinking the perfect coffee. And then I'm sort on to the next thing. So I think, I get that sometimes you just got to, you know, calm it all down. I think that's why mood is really good for me. Really? Yeah, I mean, because when his sort of head is on your lap, you don't move, you know,

to the point where, I mean, the boys, sort of family jokes like, oh, your mother can't fill up her own wine glass, you know, could somebody please fill up your mother's wine glass because she's got, you know, the dog on her knee. But I think actually it's a really, it's the most useful, it sounds horrible. But, you know, the thing about a dog or pet is they, they sort of remind you just to calm down a bit. Yeah. And so you read and you, and you snooze and you just, you sort of just.

Well, you just step off the carousal briefly, don't you? Exactly. You know, all this stuff, all this, this is my, this is my headspace time. Yeah. And you need it with your job and career, I would imagine. Because since you decided that you were, you know, that was an. area you were going to go into. It feels like having read your book, which I want to get onto, because I absolutely loved

it. I really did. It was, it's called Airhead. And I just sort of started reading it, and it was fascinating because it just plunges you in, which I love in a book, because I hate it with anything vaguely, it's not a autobiography, but anything vaguely sort of biography or memoir based, when they say, oh, and my parents are born in a Yorkshire village. I don't want to know that.

Yeah. And it plunges you into this sort of. with very high adrenaline situation where you get a phone call in the middle of the night where you have to fly off and leave your family and cover a terrorist incident. And it sort of never lets up, which reminds me, you know,

when you say you live at quite a fast pace, I sped through the book, I couldn't put it down. Oh, that's really nice. That's right. Which is what you want in a book. That was how I felt I wrote. I wrote as if I just sort of had to get it all down. Which sounds weird, but it was like that.

It was these memories will fade and this level of kind of the intensity of feeling will fade. And I've got to write all these things down before they don't make sense anymore. You know, before I wonder what on earth I was doing or what I was asking or any of that sort of stuff. So yes, I think it was never meant to be autobiographical. It was meant to be a chance to just kind of recollect. moments of absolute chaos with the hindsight of calmness and sort of think

maybe it's worth explaining what went on because the kind of questions that people ask about TV and news and what we do even now, even really sort of sophisticated viewers and people who understand interviews and TV quite often there are gaps and they sort of say I don't understand why you put that there

or I don't understand why you wouldn't ask that, or I don't understand why you had to sort of, you know, you were looking over your shoulder the whole time. And so I just thought, actually, you don't get the chance to do that on TV. You don't get to annotate. You don't get to say, when I met him, he looked to me as if, you know, he was tired and distraught

and he'd been up all night. You just plonk it there. And so actually the book was a way of saying, that was all the indecision and all the stuff that was going through my head at the time and all the things that were terrified me and all the mistakes I made and all the you know all the ethical problems that you have as a journalist of when you're getting things wrong and how you correct them and what you should do

and is your first responsibility as a sort of journalist versus as a human being it was all that stuff that I just you know we sort of grapple with the whole time literally every night on the programme and it was a chance for me to just write it down on news night yeah and so a lot of our time in the is spent saying, you know, oh, so-and-so has just libelled this woman, you know, sex allegations in his book, should we call him up about it? And we say, yes, but actually, let's not name the woman herself, because otherwise we're doing the same. And it's all the sort of little decisions that you make that you could so easily forget to make or not check or, you know, just get really wrong. Hey, where are you, Mooney? There he is.

There he is. Moody. Look out for the high viz. I love Moody's high viz tab, but hard. Snorts. It's like a marathon official. No, is it a bit Jobsworth? Afraid not.

No, you can't come down here. I'm sorry. Moody. We have to remind him. There he is. We have ham. This is my name. I'm going to give him a temporary,

you know, he's talking about names, funny other names you call them. Yeah. I'm calling Moody Jobsworth today. But look at him, run. You've never see anyone move that fast. You're beautiful. You're going straight to his mummy.

Here you are. you are you beautiful boy sit down there you go there you go he really is absolutely beautiful so yeah the interviews that you cover yes it's there was one interview with bill clinton yeah where you're quite hard on yourself which when i say hard on yourself i think you're very well known for being quite a tough interrogator and if anyone isn't aware of that just google Jacob Rees-Mogg and Emily Maitlis. But you're quite a tough interrogator on yourself as well because I think you address a lot in the book

times where you feel perhaps questions weren't asked that could have been. Or in the case of Bill Clinton, you were put into a very difficult situation. It was around the, you wanted to raise the question, the Monica Lewinsky question. And you couldn't really. So I wondered what that was about that.

Are you explaining to everyone else, or are you explaining to yourself? Are you making peace with it yourself? Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it. I think both. I mean, when I got back, people didn't say, oh, goodness, why didn't you ask about Monica Lorenzky? Nobody actually said that to me at all. They just said, that's a great interview. Well done.

I'm forgetting Bill Clinton. But it felt to me like I knew the gaps, or I knew the gaps, or I knew the stories. And that was a sort of particularly, you know, curious one for me. I remember going to stay with some friends and saying, what should I have done that night? You know, we were all sort of sitting around their kitchen table in Norfolk. And I was going, what would you have done?

What would you have done? And people got really into it. And they were like, well, I think you, you know, everyone likes solving other people's problems, you know. They're good sort of conundrums. And so actually. Well, you're quite a good friend to have. Most people are like, should I call that guy back?

You're like, what should I have said to Bill Clinton? Should I've asked Bill Clinton about Monica Lewinsky? I don't have many friends that ask me that question around the kitchen too. I could do the, you should call the guy back thing too. But I, no, I think I, I mean, sometimes it's really boring, but because we talk, you know, the worst thing you want to do is get stuck with me talking about Brexit, right? There is a very big downside to that. I'd love to.

Paul Claudia Winkleman invited me on to. do her, you know, she did this 24-hour dancing thing. And so, Comic relief. And yeah, exactly, we should say comment relief. And they raised a million pounds, which is brilliant. Amazing, her and test, wasn't it? At that particular moment,

they just had the first lot of, I can't remember, indicative votes or Theresa Macea. Yes. And so I arrived there. And the whole dance was like, what happened with the Brexit vote? And I was like, really? Are we going to talk about this now? Because we're sort of dancing on the spot but talking about Brexit. And there's

something. that feels really odd about this. Thousands of reach for the stars. That's what you're asking. But go on, so the Clinton thing, you discussed that with friends. I did discuss it with friends and I thought, actually, I just, it is, I mean, you said it,

making peace with yourself. Would you, would I, I love that whole thing. You know, they call it the sort of subjunctive history. Yes. You know, what would you have done? If you did it all again, what would you do differently? Yes. And if that had been that, you know,

if it had been post, would you have asked it and if I had asked it would the whole Weinstein thing have come out earlier and you know how much how much could change just by by the by the you know erasure of one question or the addition of another I sort of I love that whole sense you know of sort of being able to look back and and and have that hindsight and think oh that's really interesting which is what you do a lot in the book and yeah you know whether you're interviewing Cheryl Sandberg or whether you're whoever you're interviewing

there's that sense of well I could have done this it's like I feel yeah it's sort of your director's cut in a sense yeah and it's not it's not a sort of hand-wringy it's not meant to be like oh I was so stupid you know I'm not pretending that you get these

things right the whole time and that we beat ourselves up you know all the time when we don't but I think things that I you know wrote about I really enjoyed just going back into those chapters of my life. I'm not trying to pretend that I missed, you know, being a soothsayer because I'm not a soothsayer,

but I just keep going back and thinking, that's interesting. So that was the first indication. And when you interviewed Trump and similarly, you notice you pick up on the smell of lies, he tells. All the exaggeration, all the, I think what I would call it. Yeah, I think, and now I understand it. I mean, we'll talk about this. Sorry. Yeah, he loves it. Moose, he's basically a terrorist, a duck terrorist.

He just runs up to the side of the pond. Really? You were like, I used to watch a problem called Gray and Schillard. You were like gripper steps in the bully. That's what you were like then. Yeah, you're a horror. But, Clinton. I don't remember what the...

I was just... Langdonch. So this is the thing. So we... Trump and his lies. Yeah, I mean, we were talking... We were talking, you know, there's so much where it's... politics here or how important language becomes and that's for me a really really key thing and a key

sort of message now of journalism when people use these words used loosely I think it's our job to pick people up and say you know what does that actually what are you actually saying because you know you didn't say that last week or if you start saying that over and over again that that establishes itself as a lie. And actually, I think we've now become so live to that now. And the problem starts when you don't pick up the little things and then they turn into big things. Do you get frightened when you're interrogating?

For example, when you go into a situation like you're told, right, we've got Theresa May, you need to talk to a, this is post-Grenfell or mid-the-Grenfell Tower tragedy. And you have thrust into it. a seat and you have a mic put on your lapel. Are you frightened at those moments? Yes. Yes, I am. Because I just, I, you really, you don't get a second chance. That's the point. You know, you don't get to re-ask the question. You don't get to start the tape or stop the tape and do it again. You kind of have to know that that first take is the very best take because that that

that's the only chance you have. And actually, you know, within the BBC, people will be very nice about it if you screw up and say, oh, well, you know, it was impossible to do it any better. But inwardly, they'll be going, she fucked up. So, yes, I think. But that's interesting, because when I said, were you frightened, you were talking about how there was a sense of fear that the interview wouldn't work out, right? and you wouldn't get what you've gone in to get.

Whereas what's fascinating is that I would come from a position of fear in terms of, I'm frightened they won't like me. I'm frightened that Theresa May is a powerful woman and I want her to like, even if I don't agree with her politically. That's obviously, I'm just imagining that's something you don't feel. No, I've left that behind, actually. I'm not there as her dinner party guest, you know, and I'm not. I'm not trying to make a good impression on her at that point.

I don't have to be liked. Did you learn that though, or did you always have that from a young age? Because that, to me, that's something that holds people back. Do you? Yeah, I do. I think it comes with age, and I think it also comes with just kind of trying to get rid of the weeds, if that makes sense. so, you know, you're never going to please any of the people most of the time, you know, is a sort of starting point.

You have to work out who your bracket of people is in terms of your editors or your audience or the voices that sort of tell you when you've gone too far or not quite far enough. And I do take, I mean, I don't shut out advice, I really listen to advice. but I think that I and actually they get that as well you know it's surprising how just utterly robust politicians are you know in the sense that you can sort of beat people up and then it's not personal it's not a full personal and then they sort of you know they'll laugh with you next time they come in or they'll you know sort of talk to you about your book or whatever it's I find it really extraordinary that people people get it, people get that actually you're there doing a job just like, you know, don't take it out on the parking ticket man. But do you think that's tougher for women, that sense of wanting to please? Not because I necessarily think women are inately like that, but I think to a degree we're conditioned more.

I think we are brought up absolutely to want to please and to want to. I mean, I'll tell you a lot of the things, sort of the things that I've learned around that is things like women fill in gaps, you know, they don't, they feel that they have to be the talkers and are you okay and all the rest of it, you know, and actually as an interviewer, I know that sometimes that five minutes of absolute silence before you do an interview, it's really important for you. It's where everything falls into place, where your head calms down, your heartbeats or loads and you think, right, do I know what the arc of this is? And so actually one of the things I've had to teach myself is not to just kind of rab it on.

You know, I don't have to fill this space. I don't have to, I'm allowed to be completely silent. And that's fine. And it's not rude. It's all about redefining what rude looks and sounds like because, you know, in your, I mean, I remember, I sort of grew up in a house where, you know, my brilliant mother would sort of apologize for the weather to do our visiting guests, you know. So sorry for the weather. And then when we'd go somewhere else and it'd rain,

she'd apologise for that weather as well because it was as if we'd brought it. And so, you know, in the loveliest, kindest way, she's the most hospitable person. She makes people feel at home. She encourages, and she's just, she's sort of kindness personified.

And actually, I suppose I had to slightly leave that at the door and say, I don't have to be that. You know, when some sort of balshy, old bloke comes in and goes, where's my water? You know, I don't have to be the one that jumps up and gets that,

whereas 10 years ago, I would have done it. Would you? Yeah, of course. In an office? Like in Working Girl. Do you remember where you go to Molly Griffith's coffees? And she quickly jumps up and gets it. And then she remembers that he's offering it to her.

Yeah. Yes, of course, I would have felt, or I, you know, people would have said things like, can you bring some makeup for the guests if you're on location? And now I'm kind of like, no, you know, I'm not going to do John Prescott. it's makeup, you know, on an OB. It's kind of, you sort of have to step back from all that and say,

that's, let's work out what the role is and sort of, you know. But is it easier for you now in some senses? Because you've worked very hard to get where you are and you're, I don't know if they call it anchor, but to use that Americanism, you're essentially the anchor of news night. You're one of the most powerful women in television. So you get to call the shots. And that's important, I think.

I'd never call, isn't it funny? Now I'm balking. I wouldn't call me a powerful woman television. Why? Good question. I'm scared by that sort of label because I think I'm not a commissioner and I'm not a decider. I affect, I carry it out. So if we get, you know, if we land an interview, my job is to bring out the very best of that. But I don't particularly get to sort of say,

we're going to be on at 10.30 or we're going to do this. You know, that's not my role. I sort of think that the power lies with other people, which is fine by me, you know, 100% fine by me. But I think it, yes, I couldn't tell you the moment it clicked, but I remember sort of feeling it like a real sort of breath of fresh air. I think part of it is that when you, in the olden days, if you did something and it went viral because it was, you know, a terrible mistake,

you beat yourself up, you're like, oh my God, that's terrible, that's terrible. Now things go viral because they've been politicised and propagandized. Yeah. And so you look at something and you go, oh, of course they're doing that, because they didn't like the interview I did with their, you know, Home Secretary or whatever it is. Oh, of course they would say that because, you know, they're trying to make out that the BBC's, you know, anti this or anti that or whatever. And so weirdly, the fact that people are so sort of tribal now has actually made it both

harder and easier. In a way, you just kind of go, well, yeah, you would say that because you're blinked into believing that, you know, we all hate that. Whereas you don't realise that we literally get those messages from across the political spectrum, you know. So I can, I've had two Labour MPs in my timeline at the same time, both accusing me of the completely contrasting thing. And I just think, Jesus, you're actually in the same party, you know. Yeah. So I suppose in a way that sort of takes the pressure off, because you go, I've got to be much more critical of the actual work rather than of whatever

the sort of viral craziness is doing at any of. particular time. Well I suppose it's that focus, isn't it? So it's focusing on the signal, not the noise because all that other stuff is a lot of noise isn't it? Around one of you know I still, I mean I'm really good actually, you know, still at just

coming out of an interview, beating myself off and going, oh, why didn't I ask that or why did I get in there or, you know, it clicks in really quickly. I can sense you do that a lot though because again I relate to that but it's that sense you talk about in the book of, you go to bed a lot saying,

why didn't I ask them that? And you talk about cringing afterwards. Sarah Milliken, the stand-up, has this great rule about that. And she says, and she doesn't do an awful lot of bad games, but everyone has them. So if she has one, she has a rule

that she's not allowed to think about it past 10 a.m., let's say, or half 10. Really good. And that's her rule. So she says she has a time frame for it. And I think, no, that's good. You're allowed to think about it. Yes.

But it's not, it doesn't define you. It doesn't eat up your whole day and your life. And of course, I love it. We're just completely forgotten him, haven't we? I know, I know. Fat little dog. Aw, hello. It's under some water soon.

This is where I call him pants, panty. I love the way you hold your arms out to him and the Princess Diana embrace. Yeah, but don't you love the way that he just kind of runs past completely? and sort of pretends I'm not there. He's like, he's like the embarrassed teen. He's like, Mom, get off, get off. No, I'm fine, get off. Yeah, it's a bit just not that into you.

It's a bit like when Sandy, Danny's with all his cool friends, Danny Ducco. And you're all sort of over the top. He's got his collars up. Yeah, he's like, oh, hi, him you met in the beach. It's so right, yeah. He's very aloof. One of the things I loved was the dedication in your book.

Sorry for the spoiler alert, but it's to your sons. And it's also to your husband. And I love it because you say the best question I asked. Yes. Or was to that effect. And what was that question? Oh, I asked him. Well, I proposed him.

So. Yeah. I like that you did that. It was a leap year. And did you plan it? Did you think, give it a lot of thought? Or was it impulsive? Was it kind of sort of.

No, we had this great trip. bizarrely it was on you know Y2K Eve as we call it and I think the head of BA had sort of dared me to fly with them on one of their Y2K proof planes and I said oh yes you remember all the drama around yeah so that's what we did we flew to Mauritius and to sort of prove to ourselves it wouldn't crash yeah actually I remember thinking well we didn't have any kids at the time and it was like well why not you know what a great way to go out. And so we flew to Mauritius,

which was my, just sort of, I'd never been anywhere, sort of, you know, tropical or beachy or just, I couldn't imagine anything sort of more exotic. And then, yeah, I've posed in there.

I imagine your relationship must be quite a sort of calm space for you. That's the impression I get. He doesn't feature much in the book because it's not that kind of a book. No, on pain of death, you know, he hates being talked about

and he's, He hates me evolved. Well, he comes across, I like it. I like the way he comes across, because there's just the odd mention of, there's a few moments. He's a calming soul, but one of the articles that was published had the wrong picture, had me and one of my colleagues instead,

and he was so happy. He was punching the air. Mystery matter. It's completely avoided that one, so he quite enjoyed it. So I get the sense, the people often ask you, Emily, if you would go into politics? No. Would you ever? No, I would never. I would never. I actually have so much respect for the people that do. I mean, I know it doesn't always, I do. I mean, I don't mean that I respect all their political positions or even the way that they do it.

but I just think thank God you do that because I actually can't imagine a worse job I can't imagine being on call the whole time sort of awful really early hours and really late hours and everything you say and like the kind of sandwich that you eat on the train being analysed and post I can't imagine anything worse and then people sort of hating you and calling you greedy

at the same time I just think I'm mystified I'm continually mystified by why anyone wants to go into it. Some people would look at your job and say that. Well, that's lucky. Only because that idea of the sort of high adrenaline, the phone call in the middle of the night

and pack your bags go. Yeah. There must be a side of you that likes that. You know, that's a... Yes, there must be. We're sort of drawn to that in some way. Yes. The sort of foreign correspondent gene, I suppose.

I think there is something really alluring about feeling that you are part of this bigger thing that when something happens people kind of go oh well you know Emily will be there or Emma will be talking about that or when everyone's watching the election you know or the US election and you're there you're in the middle of it

of course it's the most it's the most thrilling thing in the world you know and you come back from a trip and people are like what was Trump like or what did you think or who's going to win or how's the Brexit party going to do in Peterbrook? Yeah. Let's get really sexy here. Yeah. But you, you, and it does have that, it makes you feel that you're just in the centre of the world. And so I think it's a luxury to have a job that you, that you genuinely find kind of exciting.

And I think I'm, you know, I, I'm going to regret saying this. But most of the time, I go into work and I'm just, I love the people I work with because we have really good chats. We have really, we sit there talking about why do we invoke World War II the whole time when we talk about Brexit? Or what is it culturally that makes us different to, you know, Europe or whatever? They're just really fascinating conversations that we have the whole time. And I think, you know, I'm getting paid to work this out. I'm getting paid to sort of plan out an interview and work out how to get the best out of people. And that, yeah, I mean, it's going to end.

And it's all going to end in tears. Everything ends in tears. But at the moment, it just, I feel really. I don't think it'll end in tears politically or for you. No, I just mean, you know, you can never, you can never, I always think, you know, you can't, you can't count your chickens. You can't count your chickens. But you can say, those are lovely chickens. Well, those are love, you know, you can.

sort of... Well, that's a lovely dog as well. Mood? I'm so obsessed by your dog. Emily, I've so enjoyed today. Oh, thank you. The sun has been shining. We've been so fascinating, haven't we?

And I'm going to do what you're not meant to do when you're interviewing people like Theresa May. I'm not going to say, Minister. Can I, I think, I love you. I think you're absolutely brilliant. And I think you're really inspiring. And I think it's very important for women to have role models like you. But was I a bit boring.

A bit boring. I was a bit boring. I'm going to end it there, because that's very Emily. mate list. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.