Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Fern Britton

Episode Date: June 13, 2022

This week Emily went for a walk with Fern Britton and her Goddaughter Cavapoo, Olive. They chatted about Fern’s childhood in Ealing, her chihuahua Grandson, her wonderful career in television and her new book, The Good Servant. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You spent obviously 10 years this morning and it became slightly irreverent, which I like the laugh. The laughter. Well, it did become slightly irrelevant. Irreverent, I don't know. And I'm slightly irrelevant now. But anyway. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I went for a stroll in London, St James's Park with the much adored TV presenter and now best-selling novelist Fern Britain. Now, Fern's dog was at home in Cornwall.

I say dog, she refers to him rather fabulously as her grandson because he's her daughter's beautiful little rescue, a chihuahua called James, so Fern brought along her friend's dog, who she called her goddaughter. Again, fabulous, a very cute cabapapoo called Olive. Fern is a joy to spend an afternoon with. She's incredibly charismatic and absolutely hilarious. So we had the best time. We talk dogs, obviously, but we also chatted about her childhood, growing up in Ealing,

and then Buckinghamshire with her mum and she's. sister Cherry and brilliantly colourful grandmother, and she also spoke really movingly about how she got reunited in a sense with her dad, who was a hugely successful actor called Tony Britton. And despite him not being around much when she was young, they did manage to form a really lovely friendship over time. We also talked about her TV career, which wasn't ever really part of her plan growing up. It was something she kind of fell into. Her 10-year stint, co-anchoring this morning, and the incredibly successful career she's had as a best-selling not. She's a globalist since she left, and also is a very devoted mum to her four kids.

Fern also told me about her brilliant latest book, The Good Servant, which is so fascinating. It's a historical novel, based on the life of Marion Crawford, who is a governess to the Queen and Princess Margaret, and she was sort of cancelled after spilling all her secrets in a book, but Fern presents her as a much more sympathetic, wronged character, and I couldn't put it down, so I really recommend you give it a read. I am such a fan of Ferns, and I know you will be too after listening to this. She just struck me as a very warm, genuinely decent person with a mischievous sense of humour. And I get the feeling that she never got caught up in fame or celebrity. She's just happy writing from her blissful Cornish home, spending time with her kids. And of course, her Jawawa grandson, do check out Fern's wonderful book, The Good Servant. Please give us a rate

review and follow if you like this. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the legendary woman herself. Here's Fern and Olive and Raymond. Which way should we go? I was in Ireland and I used to watch you on this morning. Oh, I thought you were brilliant, you worked very good. Thank you so much. I just love it. I just get out in Ireland and I said,

I said, what's her in Britain? Hey Gus. I remember watching her in television. Yes. Oh, thank you so much. Do one very quickly. Okay, lovely to meet you. Bye. Bye-bye.

Come on, Raymond. Fern's a bit of a national treasure it has to be said hardly it means I have to charge people for parking if I am oh no that's National Trust come on lad oh lady I mean let's go I keep calling you lads because I've got a lad at home see right lovely we'll go good girl here Fern what do you think I'm I want to get past us I'm sorry sorry I'm feeling aright what about you yeah Let's do that. Weander down and round.

This is lovely. Who's a good girl? Who's a good girl? Fern wasn't saying that to me. I wish she was. She's my idol. I'm so excited. I'm so thrilled to have this woman on my podcast.

I'm with the very wonderful. Fern Britain. We're in St. James's Park. In London. In London. And you're with... Oh, Fern, what's happened here? Uh-oh.

What, um, Raymond, are you? Well, fair enough. I mean, that often happens with me. You do get caught short with these moments. I don't always do it on a, oh, and a nice one as well. Well done. Johnny Good. I've got these pox poo bags.

What, what are they, Blensiaga? That's a big one, isn't there? That's like a very big chippilata. Long, like three chippilatas out. together. Well done. Well done Raymond. Well done, darling. That was a quick at the beginning. That was lovely. Now, Olive might try the same in a minute. I'll find a bin because don't you find, as someone familiar with dog walking, the worst thing is when you're carrying the poo around. And then you run in, especially with someone like you who get stopped and recognised.

And then people's abiding memories, it's lovely fun bit, but she smells a bit of poo. They say that whether I've got a bag of dog poo or not. Come on. But, yeah. Well, we've got lots to talk about. I want to talk about your fabulous book, The Good Servant, which I stayed up till very late at night reading in one sitting. It's so good. Did you really? Thank you.

Oh, it's fantastic. Thank you. And we're appropriately enough in a sort of royal... We are in a royal park. Yes. Oh, what are these men? Yes, they're... I can't remember the name.

How stupid of me. They're like great big cranes of some kind. They're like, you know, they sort of look pinky creamy white on the back, they're on the stones. What are they called? They have them in America sitting on the boardwalks on the West Coast and they're called... The producer just said very helpfully and I like that. She said mallards. No, no.

Oh, pelicans. No. Is it a pelican? Yes, okay, let's go with pelican. Yes, you see. How amazing. I don't know why they're here. They must have been brought.

over but in the olden days when I was doing this morning I would come be driven down this road straight through Parliament Square and every morning I'd have a look for them and there they are they're huge aren't they they must be about three foot tall Canada geese apparently lay a trail of about a meter of poo for every meter they walk they just they just cover the place in it is that right Canada geese that's like Raymond So introduce me to the dog you have today because this isn't your full-time dog. This is my goddaughter dog.

This is Olive. She's just turned two two days ago and she's a cavapoo. So between a cavalier and a poodle and she's beautiful and she's a very good girl. Look at her. I've got a few bickies in my pocket. She knows about that. A couple of treats. Oh, did you bring bickies? Yes. I wonder whether Raymond might like one, do you think? Are you interested? Oh, he's very picky.

But yes, he's having... Hello, Olive, you can have one as well. Good girl. There we go. Look at this phone, you see. Yes, how old is he? He's four, but I lie about his age sometimes. I feel he's quite small, I'm a bit ashamed,

so I think if I end up, someone said, how old is he? I said, he's two, and he's actually four. He's four? Well, he's 28 in dog years then. And did you enjoy that? Am I a friend now? Oh, he's lovely.

And why is he Raymond? Well, this is about you, so I'm going to keep this brief, not me. No, it's all about you. Come on. But I named him after my late sister. Oh, yeah, and she died of cancer, and she died very swiftly. But yeah, and I called him Raymond because her name was Rachel. And I thought Ray was, when we lived in Australia, that was her nickname. So it was a nod to her without being frankly weird.

No, exactly. Well, no, that's wonderful. Very good. And her children are okay? Yeah, they're okay now. It's tough. initially. But yeah, so he's lovely. He's my little joy and you love dogs, man. Don't you? I do. I do. The little dog in my life is, oh, yes, this is Olive. Hello. People, my little

children say hello. The dog in my life is my grandson, James, and he's a small chihuahua, an apple-headed chihuahua. And he was born in Russia and was bred to breed. So he has a tatto-a on his tummy, which was the thing that, excuse me, crossing over you, she just needs to sniff a bar or two. Oh, what are you doing, Olive? Sniffing through the bars in case there's any mice or anybody in there. I'm going to go the other side. Yeah. Yeah, so he's got a tattoo on his tummy from where he was exported to the UK.

And my daughter rescued him because he had been through maybe three or four places where he was treated as a stud dog. and they always loved him but he was passed on and I can't I couldn't pass on a dog even if he was just a stud dog I say just I mean he's a dog and he's a dearest little thing he just loves this

and when he first came he was so sort of I'm in the sex industry you know and just get humping your leg but he's gone beyond that now thankfully we don't see quite so much of his lipstick as we did in the beginning you know he brought us work

He did, he did. He thought, okay, here's a new family. What do you want me to do? Where are the lady dogs? But you know you don't need to anymore. But he's very funny on the beach because we're in Cornwall. So he meets up with lovely lady dogs who he likes very much. Generally they're much bigger than him. So he says to them, look, just stay there for a minute. I'll go get my step ladder and I'll be back. And by the time he gets back with his ladders, they've gone. So yes, dear little James, he's lovely. and he is everything to my daughter who really adores him and he worships her. So that's good. But when it's Granny Daycare, when she's working, he loves me too.

So that's nice. And did you have dogs growing up? Yeah. You were in Ealing originally and then you sit in Buckinghamshire, didn't he? Yes, that's right. Yeah, did you have pets when you were growing up? Well, we didn't for a while because my mother was in the middle of a divorce and moving out of a big house. into a smaller house and I was so young I didn't really appreciate what was going on but looking back

you can see the last thing she needed was a dog but when she met my stepfather he brought a dog with him who was a Welsh spring of spaniel and Derry was a very good dog he was lovely very fond of everybody so loving and if I took him for a walk I'd hide in the long grass in the field and call his name and he'd come and find me and he'd look after me if somebody came up up came up and looked a bit suspicious. He'd bark ferociously, but he was not a ferocious dog, you know. And then, after that, we got another spring spaniel called Teesel. Unfortunately, she had a kidney problem, and she didn't last longer than a year.

And then we had cats, lots of cats. So I'm very much a cat and dog lady. Well, it's interesting because I used to have this idea of a dog family when I was growing up, because I grew up, I guess similar to you in some ways, in a sort of media. family with performers and parents. I'm going to each child just wants to say hello to these ducks. Now look lads. With your babies.

So Canada geese with orange beaks hissing but actually wanting some dindins. They're the size of like little bantam chickens, aren't me, the babies? Oh, that noise doesn't sound good. Does that mean it doesn't like us the bees? Well, I think he's saying keep away, but have you got a sandwich on you? I think that's what he's saying. Sorry, my life.

Yeah. Keep away, but have you? You've got a scratch. So anyway, you know this is 20 quid. But yeah, when you grew up in those sort of families a bit more, I suppose I would look at these, I used to call them dog families. Yes. And they had a Volvo and a dad that was an accountant.

There's an escaped baby there. It's all right. We'll send him back in. Go on, in you go. In you go. Oh, it's all right, duck geese. Don't be crossed with us. We're trying to help you.

In you go. Good, baby. Well done. Good geese. Well done. geese look at the farm I've never seen the geese's tongues that must be the daddy going you know I'm protecting my family he's got anger management issues do you know he's right yeah so I would look at these families in North

London I grew up and I'd see the dad was it's on an accountant and they always had a Labrador and there were dogs to me represented I suppose stability reliability yep and friendship yes and I want so yours yours wasn't a dog family either, was it? Not as much. My father had a lovely Afghan hand called Clio. She was ferocious. But she was a theatre dog.

She'd be always in his dressing room, wherever he was, lying on the bed in his dressing room when he needed a rest between, you know, if you're doing a two-show day with a matinee, lied down and have a rest. Cleo was always there. The first time I met Clio, she was on the bed in the dressing room, and I thought it was a fur rug.

So I sat down and nearly got beaten by her. Anyway, she was lovely and my father adored her. So we've had friends who had dogs, we had dogs around us, but none in the house when I was small, you know. Hello, hello, how we're... Hello, children. Now, you won't know who I am. No, yeah.

But it's very nice to meet you all. We're on holiday from Devon. Are you? Where about are you in Devon? We're in North Devon. North Devon, which bit? Just outside of Bedford. Lovely. Lovely. How long are you down for? A few days?

We go back tomorrow. You go back tomorrow. Have you had a nice time here? Yeah. What have you seen so far? The London Eye. It was that big hit. You enjoyed that. Yeah. What else? House of Parliament. You went inside. You went inside. Wow. It's very nice to meet you all. Are you year seven, six? Five and six. Well, good luck. Take a picture, of course. Let's do it. Do you want me to take it and then you can get in it? Okay, smile. I'll take a few.

Perfect. Thank you so much. Well done, Olive. You sat so nice. Good girl. Nice to meet you. Have a great day. I have a gorgeous day.

Lovely. And safe journey. Bye. Oh, how exciting to them. They'll love that. So your dad was a very well-known actor who, who I remember. Yes, Tony Britton.

So he did Don't Wait Up and Robin's Nest and lots of musicals and lots of theatre stuff. It was you and your sister Cherry, wasn't it? Yep. But he wasn't around as much when you were younger because your parents had split up. Yes, that's right. It's funny that you know my sister Cherry, don't me? Isn't that weird? Yes, I should say, full disclosure.

Yeah. I know Fern's sister or my dad worked with Fern's sister Cherry. And it was one of those shows where they sort of just smoked on TV and talked about politics still for all in the morning. It was sort of open-ended. Yes. But yeah, so I suppose you just never knew any different. It was just you, your mum and Cherry really, wasn't it? Yes, and I didn't find out until maybe 10 years ago, I suppose.

My father told me, he said, I have to tell you the truth, darling. Oh, God, what's this? and he had left my mum and Cherry, my sister, before I was even conceived to, yeah, because he had fallen in love with another woman. But he came home one day to see my sister and my mother, and anyway, by the time he'd left, I was conceived. So then it was very difficult, I imagine, for my mum,

because maybe two or three months later, because it took a long time in those days, and, you know, really think, am I pregnant? I was on the way, and then he had to explain to his new love that he accidentally, can you imagine? So it was interesting to find that out 10 years ago, and then you go through the whole thing of, oh my gosh, so I was a big mistake, a big accident, oh dear.

And then you think, no, I'm fine. He did love me, and my mum was a wonderful mum. She just never told me that story. And I remember at school, this is so silly. I don't know why at school we were about eight years old, nine years old. Why were they talking to us about bigomists? I've no idea.

So we talked about bigamy, and I shot my hand up. I said, my father's a bigamist, because I didn't know what it. and the teacher, I think, must have been in the loop. My mum must have said when I joined the school, you know. And they just went, yes, dear, move on. You're quite proud. Yes. Hooray!

Because the other children would often say to me, well, where's your father? So he's an actor, he's working. Don't believe you. You know, the usual stuff. And then suddenly I had something to say, yes. Yes, he's a bigamist. Of course he wasn't.

some ways for some ways I think that's quite nice closure to find that out later on. It's helped a lot. Yeah, because you realise there were very obvious practical reasons why it was tricky for you to spend as much time with him. Yes. And I didn't know that I had a little brother because he married his second wife and had my brother. And I didn't even know I had a brother. Is he desperate? Cherry did, yes. Cherry knew and my mum knew, but they never told me. So when I found out I was about somewhere between 14 and 17, I don't know, that I had a brother.

And when I was 17, I got the school English mistress to arrange a trip to the theatre to go and see my father because I haven't seen him for such a long time. And then I met my brother. And he opened the front door. He was about 14 then. He opened the front door and he said, I've had to scrub myself with Vim to see you. So yeah, weird, isn't it? I loved your autobiography, which you wrote. So it's 2008-ish, wasn't it? Yes.

So I haven't updated that bit. There is that lovely story you tell in your autobiography about calling the theatre, which it kind of made me well up a bit, actually, because you sort of hadn't seen your dad. No. Yes, I spoke to the stage doorman. I was babysitting, and so in their house I felt I could find the number of the theatre and ring them without my mum being upset. and so I rang knowing the show would start at half or seven so I assumed he'd be there by seven o'clock

because he was always late for everything you should be in 35 minutes before any show goes up it's called the half once the half is called you've all got to be there anyway stage dormant meant you know okay who shall say is calling and I said Fifi because that's my family name and after a couple of minutes I heard the walking of rather smart shoes on a concrete floor, as they did all his back stage. And he would always clear his voice before the phones I heard. And he picked up, hello.

I said, Donna, it's Peefe! And that was, yeah, that was the beginning of getting to know him again. How lovely, fun. It's very important to me to say that my mother, because, you know, oh yes, my father was the famous man, and he was a wonderful actor, and great company and all those things.

But unfortunately, he was a man and one of those men who couldn't keep his trousers done up. You have to accept that. And he'd probably be furious if I said that. It's his birthday today, by the way. He'd be 98. But my mom kept my sister and I together. She moved out to this huge house

because my father couldn't afford to keep the big house going while he'd obviously got a new family going. And we moved into a teeny tiny tiny, little semi-detached 1960s box brand new at the time my sister still lives there and my mom kept it together with no money she made jobs she took in lodgers and she taught in a tiny little well she taught in the pre-prep school where i started and she went to teach drama carpentry all sorts of things. She was incredible. She'd work in a dress shop.

She'd do anything to get the money together. And then my stepfather arrived. George? George, yes. And at least she had some stability again, which was good. But she was a fantastic mother. I'm fun, always fun. And she was mother and father to me.

That's the important thing. My father, I couldn't see him as a father figure, but he was a man who happened to be on my father and a man I liked and we had good fun together. But in that case he had the easier option. He didn't have to deal with me starting periods or crying over a boyfriend or spots or, you know, all of those things. Oh, what kind of doggy is that? Have you stolen it? Yes, yes. So stolen dog alert.

Hello, beautiful. Mix. What do you reckon? So soft. Maybe. What's his name? Cooper. Any Cooper?

This is Raymond and Olive. Come on, Raymond. Do you want to play with a boy? No, she said, I don't really like boys, thank you. Boys speak. Come on, Raymond. Look, fun. Oh, Raymond and Cooper.

Raymond's like standing his ground. Yeah, I might be half your size, but. Raymond has a sort of how very dare you. Every time anyone approaches. him. Come on Raymond. He has a wonderful presence. He's got a big energy for a small ball. He has. He has. No, don't know. LeCuper, this is a lit. Olive is a lady. He doesn't want your nose up her bum.

Okay. Thank you. Come along, Olive. Bye-bye. I'm obsessed by your grandmother. I mean, I could do a whole podcast on her. She's wonderful. But she was this incredibly colourful character, wasn't she? As a result of her, you ended up going on Croesus not, didn't you? Yeah, she was born in Mauritius back in 18 something or other. And she came from a very poor family. And something happened when she was about 18.

I'm not quite sure, but we think she certainly got pregnant, probably a soldier going off to the First World War. and possibly he was my great uncle, we don't know, but he died in the war and she had this baby on her own and she had to give the baby up for adoption, a private adoption, she gave him to a couple and she kept contact with him for a long time, sending money in letters and photos and she'd have them in return.

And then she met my grandfather and married him and then had three other children, my mother and two brothers. But in the meantime, we think that she married my grandfather, who was the younger brother of the man who was the father of her son. But she could never tell anyone she'd had this other baby. And as soon as she got married to my grandfather, she just shut it all down, didn't write anymore, didn't hear from him anymore, didn't, you know. And so I had this uncle who I didn't know, none of us knew existed. She'd kept it so under wraps. and it wasn't until the 80s

when I was on television in Plymouth someone, my uncle was on holiday and saw me on television and wrote me a letter saying, is your mother Ruth and is your grandmother Beryl and so I wrote back going yes, how amazing, how do you know her

and the letter came back going to be like a shock but I am your uncle so I said well you're going to have to send me some proof so he sent me copies of the letters and the photos and all the things that my grandmother sent him. And there was a photo of her with him and her handwriting, so I knew it was true. And then I had to tell my mum, on a Sunday lunch, doing the washing up afterwards. And I said, Mommy, I've had this letter from someone.

And I told her, and she stopped the washing up, and she just turned and looked at me and said, well, that doesn't surprise me. And in older life after the war, my uncle found her and came to the front door of a house that she lived in. She ran a boarding house. And my uncle, who we thought was the oldest son, he opened the door. And Nana said, saw this guy and said, go away, go away. And my uncle, she said to my uncle, shut the door. And my uncle shut the door in the face of his brother because he didn't connect it.

Told him to go away. So it's all so sad. Thank God that all these things, you know, babies out of marriage and complications. I mean, as humans, we're such a mess. Olive just wants to look at that duck. Olive's heading. We should say what's happening for. She was headed straight for this little lake, wasn't he?

Do you want to put your feet in? She wants to see this Canada goose. Oh, come on, Roman. I'm worried about these geese. They seem to have a bit of an attitude problem. No, they're looking out of their babies. Yeah, they are. You're right, Fern.

That's all it is, go. Yeah. So you, um, this, your childhood, you moved around, you kind of, after the divorce and stuff, you ended up. You certainly, not reduced circumstances, but your life changed a bit, didn't it? Yeah, we were in a big house in Gerald's Cross that was, Gerald's Cross became very smart and full of actors and directors because there was denim studios just down the road, Pinewood,

television centre, Ealing Studios. You know, it was all very close by. And so my father had bought this house and I don't think he ever lived in it, actually, probably. I don't know. But it was lovely, nice big garden and we had a sort of opair called Val Trout from Germany. And we had a lovely cleaning lady and who thought it was all rather smart.

And I was a very smart little school pre-pre-prep where we called the teachers by nickname. So the headmistress Elsie Bird was known as Birdy. And there was Miss Chisholm who was known as Chizzy. And there was Mrs. Carter was known as Carty and Mrs. P.T., Mrs. Point and Taylor. In fact, I've made the secretary to one of the characters in the book, Tommy Lassie. P.T. because she was great. One of my favourite teachers. Oh which way. Let's go this way for? Yeah, let's. That's good idea. So, look, Olive is so interested in these pigeons. You're a bird dog, aren't you? Um, so what was I going to say? Oh, we're talking about your,

your, yeah, so this is a smart school. So there were lots of actors and directors children there. And it was all very filmy and we were all sort of very, it's very funny little children. who just thought that, oh, this is the world. And I was always called Fethe. I didn't know my name was Fern. Not until I was taken out of that school, put in the primary school in the village. And people were going, Fern, in the classroom,

you know, teacher, I'd be looking around. Oh, me! Oh! So that took me a while. Was it obvious you were going to perform from a young age? No, I think not. My sister was destined for all of that sort of things. She was very clever. She did dancing and she was very beautiful and she did modelling. She was very slender and long blonde hair and tall. She wanted to be an actress, thought about it. Then she went to work at Pinewood Studios and then she ended up at the BBC, which is wonderful. But no, nothing really was expected of me at all. I blew all my O levels, really. Only got five.

Wrecked all my A levels. None. Never told anybody that, of course. I said, oh no, I've got three A levels and it's five degrees. Until I said one day, I haven't got anything actually, but I've done all right. Yeah, and so nothing was expected. So I had free range to just step out into life. And it kind of happened to me. I didn't plan a thing, amazingly. And you trained as a stage manager at Central.

Yes, yeah. And how, I get the same. That was probably really good training in some ways for being on a production in front of camera because you totally understand what what it takes for the crew and what pressure they're under. Yeah, absolutely and I loved it. I really found my purpose to be alive at that stage. Look at this gorgeous allotment. Hang on a minute. Duck Island Cottage Swiss chalet for a British bird keeper. Look at that beautiful little building. latticed and...

Look, ma'am, can we need to... Tell us what this is in your beautiful voice. Okay. So, this pretty cottage was built in 1841 as the home of the bird keeper in St James Park. It also had a clubroom for the Ornithological Society of London which once helped to look after the parks, ducks and geese. The design, like a Swiss chalet, was intended to be a contrast

to the grand architecture of government buildings nearby. Yeah, because we're not far from Downing Street and all that, are we? Oh yeah. The cottage has been altered several times and its use has also changed. It was once a store for bicycles confiscated in the park. But the garden around it... Furn likes her gardens. I love a garden.

There's beetroot and peas and beans, nasturtes, nasturtiums, which are companion planting the nasturtiums, because they attract all the beetles and the... Sorry. So yeah, so that all came later. You were a stage manager, as you were just saying, you took it really well and you were good at it. Yeah.

Yeah. I can see you would be actually. I liked the organisation. Are you quite organised? Yes. Are you a list person? Yes. I write a list to make a list, you know, all that stuff.

Yeah, and love ticking off a list. So, yeah, I did that and then worked around, worked with lovely actors and some perhaps not so lovely actors. But it was lovely. And then by accident I fell into television. So there you go. You started obviously it was TVS, was it? Yes. No, no.

Westwood Television in Plymouth. Yeah, yeah. So you started at Westwood Television and then you, I remember first coming aware of you when you were doing breakfast TV on the BBC. With Frank Boff. Did you learn a lot doing that? I did.

I've been working with the BBC in Plymouth for a couple of years before I got to breakfast time. And working in a newsroom was completely new to me. I had no idea how to interview anybody. All I could really do was read Oter Q very well. That's why only natural in my natural talent. I'm going to read for a bit. Olive Sweetheart.

Your natural talent, though, which is quite rare, I think, is that you're completely authentic on TV. That's why I'm a terrible actress. I can't inhabit anyone else, I can only do me. So that's why on this morning it worked, because I always felt with you that was very much who you were. Oh, good. Well, thank you.

I hope it was, yes. I hope it was like a bloody idiot most of the time. But anyway, an idiot with a bit of brain. I've got a confession to make, isn't it? I don't know if I should keep this in, because it's probably... I quite like that look. Do you know, as it came towards me, I said, ooh. So we've just seen four what looked like paramilitary policemen with forage caps on,

and they are absolutely rattling with all kinds of weapons and cargo trousers with goodness knows what stuck in them. And yes, they were just walking four abreast towards us and everybody made way for them. They were a sort of age. There was one for me, one for you. But I didn't like the look at yours, though. Sorry. What I like is... How dare you? I'm feeling quite protection over mine suddenly.

Yeah, marksman. Well, we should... I want to bring things up to speed to your writing, but we should just say at that point, you spent obviously 10 years this morning and you completely... I mean, your legacy is incredible, I think, on that show what you do.

No, I do. Thank you. I loved it. And I think it became slightly irreverent, which I like. The laugh. Well, it did become slightly irrelevant. Irreverent, I don't know. And I'm slightly irrelevant now. But anyway, yes, you have to only look on YouTube to see all the mistakes.

And everyone finds them very amusing. So, you know, there was the best thing we ever had was somebody wrote to us. and said, yesterday I wanted to kill myself. I sat in the kitchen, I took all the pills out of the bottle, and I had a big bottle of whiskey, and I was going to start to take them. So sorry, dog in the way with prams and babies. And this person said, I had the television on,

and you two started laughing. And I started laughing, and I laughed so much, I thought perhaps life is worth living after him. Isn't that amazing? So if anyone's feeling crappy, do please go on and see my entire career going down the pan. Yes, yes. Yeah, so after you left this morning, yes. After that point, did you feel fresh start?

It was ready. It was a moment in literally a split moment that made. me resigned that day. I didn't know I was going to resign that day, but something happened and I just thought, yeah, and I left and I went to nothing and thought, well, what next then? And then, my autobiography had gone well and then, you know, HarperCollins said, would you like to write a book? And I thought, no, I can't do that. Anyway, ten books on. And this one, the good servant is number ten. So you've been, it's a 10 novels you've written, it's incredible.

Yeah. And they're hugely successful. They're all bestsellers and... Last year's one was number one. I got my first number one that was there for about a month. I was so thrilled. You must feel so proud of yourself. Do you sort of pat yourself on the back sometimes?

Takes a long time because there's a lot of imposter syndrome. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, which is why I didn't think I ever took my career in television that seriously. If I did, I might be doing news night now, which I'd have laughed. but because I'm such an idiot and people think

she's just too stupid but I'm not actually I'm quite bright yeah and actually I think when I was married to my first husband of course I've had legions but anyway when I was married to my first husband who had his degree and everything and I don't have a degree

and I secretly went off he did a menza test I lied to him I said I was going somewhere else and it took a whole day do the smentza test and I passed and quite well then he was furious

so he went and did it because he's got a huge brain but he's not a problem solver and he didn't get it so that was an immense rift between us opened up so yeah I also think things have changed now

but in some ways I think you were quite trailblazers because we were so used to seeing It's a bit like comedy, if you like. We were taught that there was only one way to be made to laugh, and that was how men made you laugh. And equally, the way news was presented or current affairs, it's the way men presented. And a certain type of man, let's be honest.

Yes. Well, I just think sometimes if I'm sitting in front of a politician, the only way to not be scared and be scared that you're going to be bamboozled and all of that stuff by them, because they'll say, yes, but you don't understand the interim act of 1963. But I go, okay, I'm a vote. I'm a voter. I'm voting you in and this is what I want to know.

And right now, what would you be asking them? I'd like to say, why can't you cut the tax on fuel right now? Right now, at the pump for a little while, you'll still be absolutely fine. Cut that today, thank you. And everybody just wants to have a life where they can have a home, have a family, have enough food, food, have a nice job, and enough is enough. You don't need billions, you just need security and love and a nice home. Very simple. But everybody gets greedy and then they start lying and then oh, politics, huh? I want to talk about your latest book actually. Yeah. And as you were saying,

you suddenly decided, I was suddenly decided like at some whim. I mean, it took a lot of work, But you became a writer. Well, I had four children going on to university, so I thought, okay, well, they've asked me to Roseburg. Let's see what I can do. Awesome. I know, they've got their proper hats on. They look very nice.

No forage caps there. So look for the way they're racially holding that little box on their belt that's got the cufflinks in it. No, not cufflinks, or the handcuffs. Yeah, they got their special police cufflinks in there because you never know when the queen's going to pop up. Dean. If Peron was arrested, okay. Oh, and then.

Put the couple of time. So, I want to talk about your brilliant new book, which is called The Good Servant. And appropriately enough, we are in Royal Park Country. Yes. And it's a fascinating book because it's a historical novel

and it's based essentially on the life of a real person who is the Queen and Princess Margaret's nanny, Marion Crawford. Governance, not nanny. Because in the papers, a long time ago, they always wrote, Crawfie the Queen's nanny, kissed and told, she had to go, she embarrassed everybody, goodbye. And that's been going on for decades now.

And I thought, as someone who's faced the wrath of people for doing nothing, I thought this woman has been really cancelled, as we would say nowadays. and I want to really look at this to see, did she do that deliberately? Was it out of spite? Was it for the money? And what she did, of course, was have a book published under her name, Marion Crawford, called The Little Princesses, which was full of the sweetest, most anodyne little stories and anecdotes about the girls growing up and life in general and a little bit of how to forget it was during

the rectication and the war and things. Sweet. She got tricked to. into it though she she was told that the royal family were not very popular in America and the Americans really wanted the Brits to thank them for all the work they'd done for the war and all the American troops that have been lost fighting this war in Europe and anything to make the royal family happy she would do so she was sort of a message came to her Oh, we wonder whether you could write some of this,

you know, hissing at us. They're not bloody snakes these geese. And so she did give a few little anecdotes to these unscrupulous American journalists who owned the Women's Home Journal in America, hugely selling magazine. And they sent over a typist for Crawfie to tell the story of everything she knew behind the scenes. all very innocent look at him that can of the goose

he just spread his wings out they must be four feet across he was some of the liberal he was like I'm here everybody he was like I'm here deal with it but he's got the babies up here they are very protective geese full stop are very aggressive

yeah they can come and get you My mum used to have two called Lo and Behold. And she put them in the apple orchard. They were side apples and the geese got drunk on the windfalls. Oh look at this. This is lovely, isn't it? Anyway, she had these stories and she was reassured time and time and time again by her ruthless husband that if she signed the contract it would be absolutely fine.

Yes, the Queen approved of everything, no her name wouldn't appear. And the book did. And then she was cast out from the family that she loved and had worked with for 17 years. Exponed her wedding for 14 years. Because it was never the right time, Croftier. You must stay with us, Croftier. You know, princesses can't do without you, Croftie Deer. Weird, we're just walking past Buckingham Palace right now.

And did you find the process of obviously writing a historical novel? How does that, because you're writing about... real people and how a large percentage of it is research and yeah tons of research a year's research that was which was great fun was it hmm I really enjoyed it made me want to do I did a level history flunked it of course and then I thought you know what I really would like to do a degree in history now I'm old enough and my brain is open enough to do it when you're 18 now too young I want to go out and have fun you know it's such an interesting period in history anyway but I also

think her story what you're saying about that thing you're absolutely right there she was cancelled essentially one of the first big high profile cancellations really yeah she lost everything she lost the family she loved she lost her dignity she lost her reputation she was shunned by her colleagues who had been very close to she she just lost out and moved off up to scotland with a lot of money from the book which must have helped a bit but she was was a woman who wanted respect and love and she would have had it if she'd just gracefully retired but it didn't work that way and I just yeah I just feel this whole cancel culture culture that we call it's a sorry we won't have on the phone break on

the phone break up oh really I think the good it's a great word personally use it a lot but it in we can we're allowed but it is yeah it's this cat it's the council culture now no is allowed to have done anything good and the minute they say something bad done you know you're done why I mean I appreciate if you're Hitler or Putin or any of you know you need to be cancelled and quickly yeah someone should have cancelled Putin a long time again but um yeah I just wanted to revive her reputation I hope that if she has living relatives I really hope that if they read the book they'll think that I might have done a nice job on her because I think she was a good person at heart but she was hurt so badly when she died you know there

wasn't a card or a wreath or anything and she had a bad marriage and oh you know poor woman should we cross over the subway bridge and look at the leaves as well just stand around a minute we've just walked under this incredible tunnel of London plane trees and they're giants aren't they It's so beautiful. This looks like a ginkgo biloba, she says. Oh, she knows. I don't know, but it looks like a ginko biloba.

Oh, you do know. Look at you, I don't know. Well, sometimes I talk clap trap. You know, I can say quite forcibly, no, 1066 was actually 1067 and make people believe it, but I know it's not true. So, Fern, I want to talk about your lovely kids, because you've got four. You produced a lot of them. I don't know.

I didn't think I'd ever have one. Did you not? No. I had a few problems so the twins are IVF and that's wonderful and they're now nearly 29 and doing their thing. They're great boys actually and very proud of them. Young men I should say they really are young men now. And my girls are one just turned 25 and the little one is 21 in August and they're having a wonderful time. They're working in Cornwall. The older one, she's bought a house. and is struggling, keeping the little payments going, but she's doing it. And the little one, she lives with me. I did say so the other day, darling, you're nearly 21. Do you really want to live with a 65-year-old mother?

She says, yeah. So that's nice. And you're in Cornwall? Yep. Your life sounds really lovely. Yes, I've tried to make it. And I haven't tried to make it. It has happened to me.

It's come to me. And I try hard to really. really appreciate it, slowed down, smell the air. But you're very resilient as well. I always get this sense, just from what I know about your life. It's like these things would happen to you. You know, your marriage would split up or you'd, a job would fall through or something and you'd be, right, leave that house, go on to the next thing. Right.

You never, you're quite resilient, aren't you? I think I am. That doesn't mean to say that I haven't had issues of lack of confidence. confidence, anxiety, look. He's being loved up by a dear little girl. Do you think you've got better, I suppose, at thinking, oh no, I'm having a bad day, that I don't always have to cope?

I'm learning it now, yes. And the thing is that life, you can't be happy every, every day, every hour every minute, you can't. And life is really a big endurance challenge. Really is, isn't it? When things go bad and you have to have resilience, yes, you do. Or else, if I didn't have the children, you know, I don't know what I'd have done. I might have just shriveled up and disappeared, I don't know.

The children have kept me alive, that's for sure. Yeah. Do you think you're happier writing, Kern, than doing, I mean, you're still performing and on TV and you do things, but do you think that white heat intensity, you know, that you were under that level of scrutiny and stuff? Is your life a bit calmer and happier in some ways now? In lots of ways, yes. I've got three more books to write off this one, and there's anxiety thinking, oh God, I've got to go through that process again,

because each process is actually very hard and very painful. I know you've written yourself, haven't you, about losing your parents and your sister, and you must have had to have girded your loins to write things to get them out on the paper. And some of that is very difficult. And I do put a lot of experiences that I've had in my life into books. And it's good to lay them out there as invisible clues.

And I think, yeah, I said it out loud. It's on the page. I don't have to say it to the person. I don't have to reveal it. But it's there. And I know it's there. I feel you're not frightened to be vulnerable. and I like that about you.

Sorry, thank you. Not at all. I think so. I think it's important. I mean, all of my life is out there now, everything. And it's not something I would have, in an ordinary life, expected to do. But, hey, how it's happened. Well, Fern, I've absolutely loved our walk.

And, I mean, how about a cup of coffee? Should we stop and have a cup of tea? I feel I've bonded with you. What do you think? Do you think, Raymond, let's be, would you be completely honest here? Completely honest. If this is speed dating, it hasn't happened.

Has it? I mean, they're blissfully ignoring each other, so they're either deeply, passionately feeling something, or they're just going, la la, la. Well, Raymond, we're going to have a coffee now. He's working his tail for him. Yes. And I really, honestly, please do go out and immediately

devour fernsburg the Good Servant because it's so brilliant you'll read it in a night oh it takes me two years to write that it's like a chef making something that's taken him three weeks and you eat it in two minutes it's quite a lot saying in the way that took me two hours it's an absolutely really but and especially if you like things like the crown as well yes there's quite a bit all over it so the good servant which is out now um van britain thank you so much I really think you're, I think you're a really lovely woman. That's going to make me cry. So thank you very much, T.

That's lovely. It's just lovely. I've had a lovely couple of days here in London with everybody being nice to me. So thank you. It's really, really wonderful. Oh, do you know, I've made fun, and I'm going to get cancelled. Oh, God bless you. Say my to Ray Furn.

Bye-bye, Raymond. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe. on iTunes.