Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Frank Skinner

Episode Date: June 14, 2018

For the start of a brand new series Emily goes out for a walk with legendary comic Frank Skinner and Peanut - a Terrier Cross who was successfully re-homed by the Dog’s Trust a few years ago. Frank talks about his childhood dogs Shep and Cal, his early years in comedy, the first time he met a young fellow comic called David Baddiel and his more recent adventures in parenthood. He also introduces Emily to the local park ranger and points out a very special comedy landmark. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I've just had 10,000 steps come up on my feet. That's how long the podcast? How many one says how long to the podcast? 10,000 steps. Hi, my name's Emily Dean and this is Walking the Dog. It's a brand new series, and I wanted to kick off with someone who felt properly worth the weight. So I won't lie, I pulled a few strings close to home.

And I'm delighted to say my guest is comic, and let's face it, National Treasure, the very wonderful Frank Skinner. Some of you may know already, I'm Frank's co-host on his absolute radio show. So I wasn't sure how he'd feel about guesting on this podcast. Would it be a cute little spin-off? Or would it be like those Friends episodes in London and let's never speak of this again? But it genuinely was one of the most enjoyable ones that I've ever done. And yes, OK, Frank, the funniest too.

We walked for hours, partly because he's brilliant company, but mainly because he has no sense of direction. Frank doesn't actually have a dog himself. So we took out Peanut, a Terrier Cross, who was rehomed by the Dogs Trust a few years ago, which is a brilliant charity. So if you want to find out more about adopting, please do go to dogstrust.org.com. And also, I wanted to mention Frank has written a play, which will be at the Edinburgh Festival. It's called Nina's Got News, and it'll be on every day at 2.50pm at the Pleasant's Dome. And that's throughout August, and for more info, you can go to Edfringe.com.

please remember to subscribe and rate and review on iTunes because I love you if you do. That's enough of me. Here's Frankie. Frank's already with Peanut. Well, that's the idea, isn't it? Frank, I'm really impressed that you're just throwing yourself into this immediately and you've got the lead. Well, I always like to take the lead.

I should say I haven't even started the podcast yet. But this is Walking the Dog. and I'm Emily Dean and I'm really excited to say this because I don't I didn't actually think I would ever say this but I'm with Frank Skinner come on Frank because I do the faux hello like you do on the chat show see this is always a bit awkward when you when you're when you're being interviewed by someone you know very well I always I've had David Brediland things I did add him on the chat show and he came on and I shook his hand I've been

talking to him for an hour backstage and you don't normally do that he If you're around someone's house and they go to the toilet, when they come back in, you don't shake their hand like you haven't seen them for ages. I know, but it is that strange foe greeting at the start, which is I always compare to the first 10 minutes at a swingers party. Yes, well, I don't know what that's like. Okay. But I'm hoping that's hard to say.

I thought there'd be a level of informality at the swingers party, but you could be wrong. Wouldn't it be typical if it was. actually like they really do stand on ceremony at the swingers party there's a very strict format of who speaks first etc we should explain we're with Peanuts because you don't have a dog I don't have a dog so I've borrowed a dog from for the day and shall I tell you a bit about Peanuts backstory yes so peanut is three it all goes a bit miss world this this section doesn't it okay so 21 in dog years yeah 21 in

dog is and I think the owners had him for a day. Her I think. Oh her, yes. Had her for a day and then they decided puppies are quite a handful and we don't like this. Yeah. So I don't feel in a position to condemn them seeing as I'm slightly stressful about having it for 45 minutes. Are you? Well I used to love dogs. I used to regard myself as a dog person but I don't I moved to North London, which is... Which is where we are now, we should say. Yes. We're actually on Hampstead Heath. And people around here don't own dogs the way we used to own dogs.

For a start off, the dogs we had, I never had a lead until the very late years of dog-owning. We just let them out. And they ran in packs locally. You never see a pack of dogs around there. No. And no one bought dog food. So what did they eat? Well, they had scraps.

From your meals? I remember the butcher saying to me, your dog sits outside our shop every day, barking until I give it a bone. That was the only way it got fed. Oh no, it got fed. We'd throw scraps. When I first left home, it was the first time I'd live without a dog. Yeah. And I was sitting in this bed seat and I saw something glistening.

And I thought, what is that? a piece of bacon, Ryan, and I'd been eating bacon and I'd instinctively just throwing the line over my shoulder. In our house, it wouldn't have hit the floor. The dog would have plucked it out of the air. Sorry, have we finished peanut stalling? No. Well, what tends to happen is, as in life, I open a lot of tabs on my browser, isn't you know, and then I dart around. I'm a terrible meanderous. I don't let me take you off your boot. Tell me about chef and cow, because those were your two dogs. And we should say in case anyone doesn't know you you were it's not actually Birmingham is it it's about

it's a few miles outside Birmingham where you grew up no it was it was what they called the black country because it was covered in soot as a result of the Industrial Revolution basically but first I had was a dog called Tiny and there are very few photographs of me as a child because well we didn't have a camera right everyone now has a camera in their pocket a camera then was a luxury item. Oh, thank you. Look. This is the first, so Peanut has met a Dax one. Yeah, lovely coat. And they're doing that thing of are they friendly or will there be? Yeah, he's got his heckles up. Oh, really? Okay, well we'll move on. Is he a puffin? He's all right. He just does it to every single dog.

Yes. Oh, does he? He seems more interested in me than peanut. I don't think there's, perhaps he's got a peanut allergy. Frank. It's so refreshing to have to do a joke about a peanut allergy. My son goes to a, there's a big sign outside my son's school saying this is a not-free school. I mean it's the biggest, if I walked in there with an armour light, I think people say morning Frank.

If I walked in there with a packet of peanuts, I think I'd be wrestled to the ground. We're going to get back to Shep and Cowell, but I'll I've got a theory about why you're not a huge dog lover, let's say. And I think that's because you always talk about your comedy like coming on. So if you're an anecdote like, as it were. So if you're telling an anecdote, you're telling a story. And dogs just interrupt that all the time when you're on a walk. Yes, I couldn't live with that.

I also think don't a lot of men get dogs so that women will speak to them in public parks? There's a man there now to dog, let's see. And I'm beyond that. I also hate this new trend for the extending league. When people say I'm taking the dog for a walk, then they stand still for 10 minutes while the dog covers a sort of 12 mile radius. Yeah, so we need to go back to Birmingham. So Tiny was my first dog. Yeah, Tiny.

He was a black and white mongrel. And then my brother's girlfriend bought him. She was called Carol. So she bought him a whipick called Cal, which was why he used to call her. So she bought him a whipit with the same name as her. That's sort of an aide-de-memoir. And then... Terrible if they'd break up, though.

Well, it would have had to have been renamed. But Tiny, the original dog, who we'd had for years, pined away when the new dog arrived. And Patsy's at first started falling off him, and he died. And I think he literally died of jealousy. Peanuts found something on the ground. Can you not need the bathroom break maybe or just having a little sniff? I always imagine if you're on Hampstead Heath with a dog and it starts sniffing like this in the undergrowth,

they'll almost certainly be a corpse. I've seen so many dramas start like this. This does look like the beginning to 90s drama, doesn't it? Purple hands sticking out the soil. So Tiny died, cow lived on. And I don't remember his demise, but then the main, the third time lucky, I really wanted a dog when I was about 12, and they got me a Staffordshire bull terrier. And where did they get him?

The man brought him over, I remember. He was from burntwood in Staffordshire. And they weren't cool then. When I first moved to London in 91, people hadn't even heard of them. I'd say I had a Staffordshire bull terrier. They wouldn't even know what they were. And then they became a sort of thing you see hipsters taken for a walk. But his pedigree had gone.

All the names of his family were things like Midnight Madness and Berserk and stuff that are. And he was, when people came to the house, he would run round and round their feet. He'd become a blur. Shooting urine as he went round. So he formed a sort of circle. That was like witchcraft. He formed a circle of urine. And he'd also snap at their...

shoelaces. He could often undo two shoelaces in a circuit. And every other again, he'd leap up and bite at their fingertips. So it stopped people coming to the head. Literally it did. Do you think that's what that's what sort of as that memory has just lodged in your mind and you think... Yeah, I've been looking for something to stop people coming to the house ever since. What's interesting is when you talk about your dogs, which you do sometimes on the radio show and stuff that we do together. And you tell all these sort of funny stories about them, but it has always really struck me that, yeah,

the dogs weren't like dogs seem to be now, our perception of dogs, being part of the family and just this sense of them, yeah, just doing, I think of them as like friends with benefit in your arrangement. Well, they were more like lodgers than members of the family. I mean, a lot of people had kennels, and the dogs, you know, slept outside. I don't know what's happened to the kens.

No, that small wooden house like Snoopy used to lie on. Yeah. A lot of people tell me they have dogs in their bedroom and stuff. You might be one of those people, I'm just trying to remember. Well, I got in one night intoxicated and it was freezing cold. This is in Birmingham, yeah. Yeah, and Shep was trembling, physically trembling with the cold in the kitchen. So one could be very compassionate when drunk.

So I took him to bed with me. And I got, this was pre-duve, which is a great way, I think, to mark the eras. This is eyed-down. So we had like Ida-down and then blankets and things. So I put it, I got under the blank, I didn't want him next to my flesh. So I put him under the Ida-down on top. When I woke up in the morning, obviously with a terrible hangover, I rolled over and there was a big lump of white stuff.

right next to the pillar like a cloud had fallen from the sky and then I saw another piece and then I realised that he had he had basically scratched an enormous hole in the eye that down and spread this stuff so I leapt out of bed in a rage

and felt warmth at the soul of my foot and he'd pooed at the side of the bed and the way I'd stepped on it It had come through each gap between the toes. Like when you see the hair forming on a Play-Doh Fun Factory, it had oozed upwards, like that. And I remember my mum saying, well, that's your fault, you know,

they're not supposed to be in the bed, so I wasn't allowed to punish him in any way. Do people still rub their nose in it? You learned to know something from that. No, I think that's considered to be a bit cruel, yeah. It's all gone all the old ways. All the cruelty's gone now. Yeah, exactly.

That's why I don't want one anymore. Yeah. I don't want one is going to take me to court. I'll never be cruel to a dog, but it was the standard method for dog weed on the floor. You would literally rob his nose in it to teach him about it. So I want to talk to you a bit about when you were growing up as well, because again, I feel like I have quite a vivid sense of your parents. And your dad, just because I think about your dad, he's called John, wasn't he? He worked in a factory?

Yeah, he worked in, yeah, various factories. What I think of him is this very, sort of quite powerful, impressive person. Well, he was much more male than I am, certainly. Really? Yeah, he was much further down the testosterone queue than I was. And I think he was sort of okay with that, but I think he'd have liked me. me to have been like our Terry was a bit more like him that's my oldest brother was a bit more macho yeah when he was 60 he came in with his handle swollen and I said what's

happened and he said a guy asked me the time so I hit him and knocked him over a garden wall I said hold on I've we've turned two pages of the script here what happened in between he said when we used to work in the pit On your way to work in the morning, they used to take your snap. Your snap was your breakfast. Oh, okay. And people were so poor. They would stop people, ask them the time.

You said, and then when you looked at you... Hang on, Frank. The ranger's saying hello. Yeah, great. Happy with what we've done. Yeah, it looks lovely, actually. He's done a good job. No complaints, yeah. No complaints, but, you know, it is hamster.

See you. Bye-bye. Frank? What does the ranger want your... That was the park ranger. That was the Heath Ranger. Yeah, they changed. some fencing at the end of our road.

So if you live in North London, what means that about seven or eight residents have a meeting with the ranger? And he has to explain to what's going to happen and we have to be okay about it. I love that. That was very downtown abbey. Yes, it was very where you came up. Are you a lordship?

Yes. Are you happy with... Could you have a look at that fence out on the lower meadow? I feel like this is your land. We'd rather tantalisingly, we left it where your dad had just knocked someone out because they'd asked him the time.

So he thought the idea was that when he looked at his watch, they would then hit him and take his money, it would be nowadays, rather than his breakfast. We've got to a bit where two paths diverge in a wood. Never asked me directions. I think the path on the right looks prettier because I'm attracted by the blossom. Okay, let's go blossom. So, yeah, so your dad was, was he funny, your dad? I thought he was, yeah, I thought he was very, yeah, I thought he was very, very,

Yeah, I thought he was very funny. And he used to sing a lot in pubs, not officially, but he would just sing a lot. And he'd sing a lot at home. And that's something I inherited. I sing all the time around the house and stuff. And only when I'm ill do I not sing. And if I am ill, you know, people say it's when I realise I can eat or stuff like that. It's when I hear myself singing, that's when I know I'm coming out.

Yeah, you're okay, yeah. And he, he's, I think, him and my mother, who were married for, I think, 49 years, argued to my memory every day. There was four kids. So there was me and Terry and Keith and Nora. And Nora, yeah. And you were the youngest, weren't you?

I was the baby. And the whole house was one enormous shout all the time. So yeah, what's that noise? Oh, that's the other, God, there's so many darts. That's the hand of the basketballs. So they argued all the time, and the whole family bickered and shouted each, the house was like that. And it was fine.

I just grew up with that, and it was fine. But when him and my mother had a bad row, very often at the end of it, she'd be like hunched over salt, and there'd be a weird pause, and then he would be a weird pause, he would start singing to her as a sort of palliative at the end. And I can remember them having a blazing, awful, terrible personal remarks row,

and then it stopped, and then they both sat down slightly exhausted. And he went, if I had my life to live over, I would still fall in love once. And she's going, oh yes, get off me now. And he often did that. So it was a weird, it was like an odd dark cabaret that would end with a song. Yeah, and that sounds made up, honestly, that would be a common occurrence. And he also used to say to it as a sort of, it was like he'd throw in a weird moment of affection during the hostility. Right.

Frank, he's really, I don't, that dog scared me. There's a dog. It's going to be dogs on Amsterdam. I know, I know, but that was, I wasn't expecting them most out. Peanut is hanging back. I forgot I'd got peanut. I know. That's the rangers dog, Frank. You should know that. That's a different ranger. Okay.

Yeah, so you were saying... I'm sticking with the organ grinder. Yeah. So he would... He would... there's a thing he used to say to it often, which was... There's only one thing he'd say at the end of an argument, or mid-argument. And he'd say, if you die on a Monday, I want to die on the Tuesday. And that was his thing.

And it was a weird sort of shot of sentimentality amidst all the aggression. And what was your mum's response to that? Was she quite a sort of placid... Oh no, she'd be very dismissive about it. She wouldn't join in with that. Because it's not, you know, I find this now in my own relationship, that blokes can... I'm generalising, which I know is a dangerous business nowadays,

but I think blokes can end an argument with the flick of a switch. I get into it like we can be in having a big row and and I'll just say I'll just suddenly think I don't want to be arguing anymore so I stop there's an enormous afterburn with Kath my partner that could go on for 24 hours so but he would he would suddenly think I'm going to say something lovely now and then he'd do that it's very so it's that sense of drawing a line under it

and I suppose it's although I would say to you as a friend of yours I mean, we don't, we don't be row. We probably had the odd moment of small tension, not many, but I always see you as someone that I think is very good at conflict resolution. So, do you know what you mean? Even if you're angry in the moment. Well, I like detailed analysis as soon as possible. You go very forensic, don't you?

Yeah. I think that's a good way of doing it, though. Yeah. So sometimes mid-rail, I will actually say, hold on, we're not arguing about this. we're arguing about blah blah and or I will just break down and say actually I think I'm in the wrong here. I don't use that one too often and rarely with any real conviction. I mean the great irony of it is that thing about if you die on the Monday I want to die on the Tuesday is my

mum died in April and he died about 10 months later and And to be honest, I would say he did die the next day because that robust, loud, funny, colorful and, you know, volatile man never really reappeared. So I watched him crumble over the period of those months. He was a very, very keen gardener. I mean, he loved him. And I remember going to the house, summer had just so like spring, I suppose, and summer had begun out. after my mom died in the April. And I was talking to him and I looked through the window and realized he hadn't done the garden.

The garden was overgrown and unplanted. And I thought that's it. For my dad to do that. Yeah, it doesn't get more symbolic than that. No, he'd given up. He didn't want to be there anymore. God, he used to go to my, I'd see if I'd get through this story. He used to go to my mom's grave every day

with a milk bottle full of water and a jay cloth and wipe over the gravestone because they get a bit, you know, muddy and stuff. Every day. And this was, as I say, a couple who'd argued every day for 50 years. Wow. Anyway.

Sorry, it's all going to be. There will be jokes as well. Yeah, it's kind of bit of Piers Morgan's real lives or whatever it's called. There's more Piers Morgan live stories. Oh yeah, that's it. Has she still do that? Anyway.

I think so, yeah, but now he's down to... Did they stop crying? He's down to like John McCrureck now, you know. It was Richard Gere in the first early days. What does John McQuirich say? I always remember when the toad voted against me. Exactly. And when they're going close for the emotional bit,

they still have to go in quite wide because of the sideburns. And the deer stalker, which he won't take off for the interview. Oh, dear. It doesn't work emotion in a deer stalker. I think Sherlock Holmes established. that very early on. Maybe that's why Sherlock Holmes had to be a bit reserved. Yeah, exactly. And sort of slightly... Sherlock Holmes would have been... ironically, for all his intelligence, would have been a

rubbish guest. They're reticent. You can imagine Pius getting a bit edgy with him. Trying to get him to open up. Can I say if anyone's listening, it's a fictional character. Yeah, he will. I do know that. I want to talk to you a bit of Frank about when you... Because you know there's Frank 2.0 that I always... think of it as, which is your life, you're a bit of a late starter in a way, because you had this life up until 30 and then you had a really radical overhaul. Mm. Didn't you? In so many ways. Yes. See, can I just explain what happened then? I just turned around to Frank and he had a pipe.

I thought Sherlock Holmes had cropped up. I remember I had a pipe in my pocket. I'm doing a PhD on whether visual comedy works on radio. I should just say that is one of the most frank things that's ever happened. And it sums him up, which is that he thinks, I've got a laugh in my pocket. I need to use it. And this would be a good time. It was lovely that.

Because Holmes has come up. So your life change, as I call it. That was, I mean, that was three things. That was you gave up alcohol, couldn't you? When I was 30, when I was 30, I remember I got dumped on my 30th birthday by a woman half my age, probably. Ouchy. Yeah, but it was a good thing. My friend's, my best friend's girlfriend said to me, what is it?

like to be 30 on the scrap heap talking about my life in general. Yeah. But on the lead-up to it, so about at age 29 and a half, which is not an age you even mentioned that often, I did start to think about becoming 30. I suppose I had a very early mid-life crisis. Yeah, like a quarter life crisis, yeah. So that's optimistic mathematically. But I, yeah, I split up with a woman I've been going out with for six and a half years I think I gave up drinking I just things I started doing sit-ups like everyone is nearly 30 I started running I just it was quite a big life change and then finally having given up drinking I had oh so many hours in my life to fill I then started doing comedy and that

changed it absolutely. Oh, there's a Dulux dog approaching. This is not a good match. No, sorry, I think we're three. I didn't realize taking the dog from what was a series of confrontations. It really is. It's like walking through the Bronx in a ball gown. But there's a lot of encounter. When I took Lee Mack out, he said, yeah, the thing is I didn't know there'd be so much talking to people. You have to stop and chat. Yeah, I can imagine them saying that. They told me that the way he puts his friends into different categories is the people you'd invite to your birthday party and the people you'd want to be at your funeral. So he has got quite a clear sense of who's close and who's a bit over the way.

It's like wedding invitations. Go on. Oh yeah. So we need to get back to your life change. Yes. So yeah. So, well, a thing happened. And I'd begun, because I'd been on the, I'd gone to university and stuff, but then I'd left there and quite deliberately really been on the doll for three and a half years. Whereas I lived in a bed seat.

Is this in Birmingham? Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, in Harbourn in Birmingham. And I shopped at half an hour before the supermarket shut so that you could get all those eating 20 minutes or it because. comes radioactive and I shop to you know the Oxfam shop and I lived a very frugal idle life and read a lot of books second-hand books and was very happy really but then I got a job someone I met offered me some hours at the

College of FE so I started teaching English. Has that further education? Yes sorry yeah and which I liked and then they offered me a year's contract so I thought that might be my future do you have that sense Frank of thinking the first time you stood on a stage good I'm really good at this or did you did you not the first twice I stood on the stay I honestly thought and I'm not exaggerating the first gig I did which was a charity gig in Birmingham that I hosted I honestly thought because there was a a couple of comedians who were from the London circuit on the bill, that they would go back

and say we've seen the future of stand-up comedy. I honestly thought that I would be on, was it Friday Night Live, I think it was called. Yeah. I honestly thought I'd get the call that week and I'm not joking. I seriously fundamentally believed that once anyone saw me that they would think this bloke is amazing. So I died that night and the next gig I did went even worse. and then the third one I stormed it.

It went brilliantly and I went back home with a very beautiful woman. It looked like the young Shirley MacLean. And then I thought, mate, I can do this, I think, about the comedy. Come on, Peanut. Well, Peanuts found a stick now to scale. Peanuts got like a mini stick. Tiny stick. That's like the sort of...

And I dropped it now. That's like the footballers. man bag. ... commitment film. I'm starting to think, was it the couple who got rid of peanut after 24 hours or did Peanut walk? She had the stick for, I would say, eight seconds before she gave up on it. But interestingly, Frank, you know, a lot of people would have given up, thrown in the

towel at gig one, because the horror of standing on the stove. Can I say that there is a clause, a clause in that I haven't explained. There's when I decided I wanted to become a comedian. I'd been to Edinburgh in 87 and I'd seen some my first real stand-up comedy there including a double act called Black and Badiel, who was David Baddiel and a guy who I think he was at Cambridge with. But anyway, so when I got back from that Edinburgh, before I'd done a second on stage as a stand-up comedian,

I booked a room for the following festival. And I had 450 quid in the bank and the room was 400 quid, I think. Cleared out my life savings such as they were, in this room, having never done any stand-up at all. So I couldn't really quit, otherwise that money would have been wasted. I think if I hadn't done that, I might well after that, certainly the second gig, which is nightmarish, I might well have quit. But I wasn't prepared to waste 450 quid.

So it was a very, that was just, again, just luck, you know. But then I wonder if, you know, even pre-fame and success, I really see that in you. More than probably anyone I know, just that sense of setting yourself goals and that willpower. Because I know a lot of people say, you know, it's like it's sort of the easiest person to let down is yourself. Do you know what I mean? It's like, oh well I'll give up smoking but if no one's around and is watching then I'll have one.

Whereas I get that sense with you that once you've said you're going to do something, you're absolutely, that's it. You know, I didn't have that in my life at all until I started doing comedy. It was, when I was 30, I'd been, I'd had quite a bad drink problem. I'd gone from job to job. I'd been, I couldn't, you know, get any kind of. relationship together that really was worth anything and and then I suddenly found something that not only that I was good at but that I found really immensely fulfilling and it was I mean like no change you could imagine and what sticks in my mind is driving back from London at about two in

the morning on the motorway and physically punching the ceiling of my car if cars have ceilings punching like the roof of my car really hard about seven or eight times with otter exhilaration that I'd done a great gig that I'd found what I wanted to do that I could do it that I all everything that had gone before that didn't matter this was it now and it was that you know that eyes on the price thing yeah what I when I think back to to pre-comedy me I think of myself as someone who was almost You know Mr. Celophane in the...

Oh, my little girl wants to stroke peanut. Oh, somebody wants to stroke peanut. That's nice. She's soft, isn't she? Roughly. Say bye-bye now. Say bye-bye, peanut. Bye, peanut.

Bye, peanut. But I really love that story because I didn't know that. And I just think there's something really powerful and, like, quite inspiring about that. Just the idea that you've found. I'm completely in the right place for me. You know, that sense of, I found it. Totally that. And I was writing every day for hours.

You know, I would do, I'd do a gig. People would come up to me. The comedians in London started talking to me as I went down there more. I was still living in Birmingham. And they would say to me, but I saw you do a gig two weeks ago. And then I saw you tonight.

And it's completely different material. And I said, well, yeah. And they said, that's not how it works. You do material and then you keep that set. You might change the odd little thing, but that'll last you for a year or two. Some people had the same 20 minutes. I'm not exaggerating for nine, ten.

Yeah. For more years. I didn't know that. So again, booking the room in Edinburgh and the way I wrote was down to ignorance, but ignorance that worked out well, you know. I think peanut needs to. Peanut defecating?

No, no, it's another copse. Maybe she wants to get another of those. I brought an armful of luminous markers, which I'm putting up for the police. Along with the pipe. Yeah. I wouldn't surprise me if you did have props. There you go. There you go, peanut.

She's had a biscuit and all of them. I didn't know she had biscuits with her. Oh yeah. I was got the treat on the go. And then tell me about when you met David for deal. Well, by then I was doing. people know is your long-term comedy partner and dear friend. I was doing a club called Jonglers, which was in Battersea.

And David Badell was on the same bill. And the World Cup was on and the Republic of Ireland were playing. And they played David was expressing the fact that he felt they played a sort of neanderthal style of football. And I said, I thought that's the way to play World Cops. to forget about all the finesse and that's imposed on us by the sparkling Brazilians. I don't know if you got up here. I think that's probably...

Keep taking me up hills. Well, we don't have to, Frank. We can go back then. Well, I was hoping Peanut would draw me forward like a team of Hoskis. It would be some sort of Game of Thrones experience. I think that's a weird thing that Peanot's ears have blown backwards and stayed back. I know. So the inner pink of the lobes exposed.

If we go to take a son burnt back to the rescue. Yeah, so go on, so you were saying about David? So yeah, he was going on about football. So we had an argument about football. Yeah, it was. I was kind of impressed that what I would have called a posh bloke, knew so much about football. So I came out of it, even though we'd been on opposite sides of the argument,

with some respect. And then there was an amnesty, It was an Amnesty International gig in Nottingham and I was on the bill. And at the end of it, we'd become, I would say, genuinely close friends from just hanging around for a day. And I remember he called me a dangerous thinker. Anyway, he said, I'll give you a lift to Birmingham. And it was the foggiest day ever.

So what should have been an hour on the motorway was about three. And we were driving at like five miles an hour. And every now and again, a wreck would loom out of the ancient mariner. A wrecked car would loom out of the shadows of cars that had had accidents in this fog. So we had this three-hour chat in very macabre surroundings. And I don't know, I suppose I fell in love with him on that car journey. Oh, that's so sweet. And I was back in, I went, I moved to London and I was living with a woman.

And we fell out and she threw me out the flat. And I found him up and said, can I say, can I say? on your sofa just for a couple of nights that I find somewhere else. And we live together for seven years. I know, it was amazing. And now, again, without giving too much away, we should say you don't live too far away from each other now. No, we live in the same road.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. It's just the sense of that being such an enduring friendship. But I don't seem as much as you might think for someone who's in the same road. But when I do see him, and he said this, to me, remember we didn't see each other for about two months and I've said, I met him and I said, oh we've grown apart Dave and he said, no we haven't grown apart. It's just the same

as ever and he was right. It was, I could not see him for two months and it's like he'd gone out of the room to get a cup of tea and come back in again. But I wouldn't say friendship was my specialist subject. I'm actually quite bad at it. In what way? Um, um, If I phone someone up and say, do you want to go and see blah blah on Tuesday and they say I can't, I'm busy, I think, well that's it then. They don't really want to hang out with me. I'm not going to go through that embarrassment and rejection again. Why do you think you think that? I don't know.

I mean, I think my partner's quite worried about me that I'll, if she died, I'd be left desolate and alone. But you know, there's so much sport on television nowadays. I think I'd be all right. And I have a child, of course. But is that? That's probably just, yeah, I understand that. Look, I think everyone feels that to a degree. You feel slightly stung, it's that, because when you may offer to meet someone, you're making yourself slightly vulnerable.

You're saying, I want to see you, I suppose. But I don't think I relax into friendship the way you're supposed to. I think I probably see every encounter as a gig. I know, you and I would say that we were good friends. Yeah. But, I mean, how often do we see each other outside of a professional context? Here we are now walking on the heat. Having it recorded.

And we meet each other every Saturday for a radio show. But how often do we see each other socially? Not very often, really. And I think that's true. And I think that probably is, I probably saw more of you socially when we weren't doing the radio show to. because I know I have that Saturday with you. Do you know what you mean?

So I know that's kind of a weekly day anyway, but I think you're still someone that I would ring and say a terrible thing's happened. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I can see that, but the sort of, I suppose what I compare it to is the friends I had when I was a youth. Yeah.

And we would go around each other's house, and we wouldn't have any place. to watch or do it we would just sit lie around and just talk for seven or eight hours then we'd go home and I don't have that kind of friendship with anybody anymore because people have got more to do then I suppose you've got a family as well yeah I just turned up at Dave's house and tried to sit there for six hours and talk to him my mini would ease me out I'd go this way I'd go this way I don't know where it leads downhill There's a void hill, you can always get an Uber. Yeah, exactly. I've just had 10,000 steps come up on my feet, but that's how long the podcast. Everyone says how long to the podcast, 10,000 steps. Your life in the last, I guess 10, 15 years has changed a lot as well personally.

Because obviously you and Kath, you know, you've sort of, I don't know when I first met you if I ever predicted that happening for you, if I'm honest. No. Well, it's funny you should say that because Russell Grant did my star chart. And he said to me, your career will last seven years, and you'll never hold down a long-term relationship. Or did you say we'll never hold down a long-term relationship? Anyway, it was something.

Well, I don't want to be in the same vent diagram as Russell Grant. No. But I think I just felt really happy for you that this feels kind of like right. And it feels now that you've got a son and I can see how you're so good with him and you sort of love him so much. And you've created this really lovely sort of domestic life. Well, I had to grow my own friend in the end from seed. Because I was so bad at the normal friendship thing. And he is probably my best friend now.

We hang out a lot and he's okay with it. And he rarely says, sorry, I can't. I'm going to Jimmy Carr's. You know what? He's the only person on the planet who I could happily enjoy being funnier than me. And how did you think, because you're good at relationships and you're someone who... Am I? Well, I think you're good at giving advice.

I think you're good at Because I think you have quite... Aunt Morrow used to call me, refer to me as O'Suliman, which is an eastern wise man. Yeah. Well, I think you've got... You often have a lot of insight

because that's what you do for a living. You know, it's sort of observing people in a way. Paint, you've been so good holding the dog. Yeah. Oh, hold on, peanuts actually really going to do it this time. But you're just someone... that I think I remember every bit of advice you've given me just as stuck in my head

just because some... No, I'm not saying I'm always acted on it. No, good. But I'm saying... And I remember just things. Like I remember years ago when we were in Edinburgh and you said to me once, you said, I think...

And it's a hard thing to say to a friend. You said, I think you've got to be careful about not becoming... stridently single. Like, do you know what I mean, being sort of defensive about it? And I think that was, I didn't like it when you said that, and I was a bit upset at the time. Yeah. But then it took me, it's a bit like you were saying, I can't remember, but you mentioned someone, something, something had said to you. It was a scrap heap thing you said, the girlfriend saying on the scrap, it's hardly the same. But those are the things that stay in your head.

And I think, you know, even at times, whether I'm in a relationship or whether I'm not, it's about a mindset in a way. It's about a sort of not being brittle. Do you know what I mean? And that's something that's really stuck with me. Well, it's, you know, you see so many things, plays and stand-up shows that just need a second pair of eyes on them. They just need someone to say, you know, that would work a lot better if you blah, blah, blah. And I think you see that with people as well. I'm sure people could do it to me. You don't need to do that why do you do this? And it's just that. But it's a dangerous game, I think. That could have killed our friendship, me saying that to you, for example.

Obviously, it wouldn't because it's a professional arrangement. Well, we have professional arrangements, and also, I think the reason it wouldn't... We're like Mike and Bernie Winters. We hate each other off set. Can I say we don't? But I think probably now, I would say to you, after the fact or at the time, I think that's because I'm better and I'm more confident with you

and just in general at saying, actually, I think I was upset and I don't know why, only because I've had a lot of therapy and I hadn't had me at that point. So I just internalised it. But would you do it to me? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, here's your chance to do it on air.

You know, would you say to me, I wish Frank wouldn't do this, or I don't think he should do that, or blah, blah, blah. I'm going to ask you to come with an example because that's what we call in comedy a hospital pass. You know, what if you had to single out my main fault, could you tell me what it is? Yeah, I would be brutal. Okay.

I would say sometimes you're quite quick to react. Like in Petit, do you know what I mean? Like you'll make a decision about something and think that is, this is so. this is what it is. I can say that. But I think it's probably true, I don't probably play the politics of friendship as well as one could.

And I think it's to do, and I don't know if this informs the comedy or whatever. But if I want to say something and don't say it, I get a slight stomachache, and I mean physical. And I really mean that. And if I've got to, if something is, someone has said something and then after I think, actually, I don't, I'm not sure what they meant by then.

I'm not too happy about it. I can't say when I'll see them in a couple of days or whatever. I have to phone them up and have the conversation. Otherwise, it will honestly have a physical effect. But not a million miles away from gastroenteritis. Peanut. Come on, this way, peanut. Peanut.

Peanut didn't know it's long haul. Peanaut's actually got thrombosis. Walk off and down the aisles. Yeah. I'm sure peanut is a slightly shorter animal than it was when we set off. Okay, we are going to try and find the way back. It's supposed to leave those four red lines behind it as it walks. But I wish I had a, uh, uh, I wish I had more capacity to not say.

Do you? Yeah. I think it's almost, I don't know, but I've made a living out of saying things pinged like that off the back of something. And it's great when it's one-liners. Yeah. But when it's something about what someone's life is or something that you're upset about or something like that, it's a less efficient system.

I think there should be more filtering for those. So do you... Yeah, I was asking you before we sort of, I went off on tangent a bit, about with your relationship, how have you made it work with CAF? How have you got the stability and... I mean, I think the secret of our success is that I give in 98% of the time. And if anyone asked me, genuinely asked me about how to make a relationship work, I would say, make up your mind that one of you, I'm not talking about being a decent, door map, but one of you, you know, the French believe there is always a kisser and a kiss.

Yeah. I think you need to make it in mind that one of you is going to be the giverina. And I'm the giver inner. And that seems to work okay. I remember a priest once saying, the trouble is with arguing, a couple arguing. Every time you argue, it's like knocking a nail in a post and that's fine, but eventually the post will disintegrate. That's going to be one of those things I remember now. Yeah, well, we've done a lot of damage to our post. Right. And the one thing I think we both hold on to is that we, after all that, we kept reuniting.

You've changed a lot, I think, since you've had bars? Are you aware of that? I suppose, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it's obvious anyone will say that, you know, that having a kid is an enormous change. It's an enormous deal that you have to do with the rest of your life, an enormous bargain. And I would have written more and created more and done more gigs if I didn't have a kid. I think that when you think I'm going to have a kid and settle down, then you are saying, so I'm going to give up maybe 20% of what I could have been in my career.

Yes, I see that. There is sacrifice involved. Yeah. But then I think also, because you're a bit of an inspirational late starter, poster boy for the late starters. Yes. I think that's in some ways, I think that you did do the responsible thing because you thought, right, had you had a kid, as you were saying, you and Kath sorted out your sort of top line issues and created an environment where you could have a kid and you were both. a bit older and I sort of I mean there's no right or wrong way but I just think that's probably well I wasn't pining for you know going out every night yeah for a long period into my well into my 40s if I didn't go out every night I was

angstridden really but I was missing out on you know the event that would have been some fabulous life-changing thing that was a great thing about doing stand-up. You know, I used to be gigging six, seven nights a week regularly. And it was great. I was just out there all the time. You really feel like you're of the world, you know. But you're really comfortable with fame and being recognised in a way that a lot, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I hate it, it's a nightmare. And I think you've always said, you know, us on the radio show, it's a funny story about how you were staying in a hotel. You said, yeah, I like to go down, you know, I don't do room service, because, you know, I don't do room service, because, you know, I don't. I like everyone to see me in.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why I, you know, I rarely go abroad. Because getting recognised then is difficult. But you know people say something, I like that's why you don't go. But you know, some celebrities do say it's dehumanising and people.

Well, look, it can. If people are, you know, I almost never. I mean literally maybe twice three times in my life have I had any sort of problem with it. Yeah. Yeah. I like it because it's a bit like having friends. And for the sort of duration that suits me. Because Bosl says to me, how come that person knows you? Because someone will go, oh, freaky, and all that.

And you'll say, how do they know you? And I'll say, I don't know. But he's worked out now. Some friends at school told him I was famous. Oh, really? Yeah. And how does he deal with that? I think he's quite chuffed about him.

He said to me, there is nobody else in my class whose dad was in Doctor Who. And I thought, well, that's not every kid in North London school can say that. But obviously, you've got to be careful with that kind of thinking. kind of thinking. Yeah. I was also quite pleased about him. He said, can I have a photo of you in Doctor Who for my bedroom?

I was down to Pronto. Pretty the shot. So things like Doctor Who, that presumably, are you, I mean, that was obviously, I know how much that meant to you. And presumably, are you thinking that's exciting for bars? Is that part of it?

Does that make those decisions more special in the way? Well, I was filming Doctor Who on Bossy's first birthday. Yes, I remember that. So I missed his first birthday party. But I thought, you know, he's won. Yeah. He won't remember anyway. And I thought I would rather have a dad who was in Doctor Who than a dad who was at my first birthday party.

Yeah. And that's proved to be correct. I also missed his first step because I was at a screening of remembering. of remembrance of the Daleks, which hasn't. I really think he would understand. Yeah, you'd think so, would you? Although I have got it on TV too. Let's not sit on the big screen.

You, I always think if you, look at those dogs, there's so many of them. That's dog suit, look at that. Yeah. You're very happy, fine. Can I just explain that for our readers? Yeah, yes, we should explain it. There's about six or seven dogs swimming in one pool.

And Emily says, that dog soup. Now that is a good joke. And I want you to know that that's a good joke. Thank you for the acknowledgement. My biggest champion, Frank. Well, I remember when Absolute Radio asked me to do a radio show. I said, I don't do it on my own because I need someone to talk to one here. And they said, okay, well, we'll leave you to find someone.

And on the walk back, I actually found you in the park. And we weren't that. We knew each of it, but we weren't super close. Well, I knew you through, we should say actually, because I never made that clear, but we met through Jonathan Ross and Jane Goldman, because Jane was my childhood best friend. And I remember you and David...

You were part of the salon. I was part of the salon, the 90s salon. And I remember you and David would come around. And I just thought you were so funny and you seemed so happy. Like I got this sense of you as being just an incredible sort of sense of positive energy. And I thought, I did think, I really wish he was my friend. Right. I do remember thinking that.

Yeah. But it's interesting that. Because I called you up, I knew immediately or I wanted to do it. And it was two things. It was because you're funny. But also, and perhaps, if I'm going to be honest, more importantly. Yeah. I also thought you made me more funny.

Oh, I love that. And the reason I thought that is because you get more of my references than most people. If I'm with someone and I throw in a gag and they don't get it, I kind of think, well, I don't want to cast my pearls before swine. Yeah. So I sort of closed down a bit. Whereas you encourage me, you wagging me on, maybe not deliberately. And that has that worked out. Yeah.

Yeah, and we've been doing it 10 years now. Yeah, well, it's a joy, isn't it? Well, I love it. I love to talk about this. I know. We're both on the same. This is like watching tennis, there are two people standing on the same side of the net.

And no one on the other. Although, I do want to say, just to balance out strident gate. Yeah. I think you're like the equivalent of the ghost of Christmas, past, present and future, I think. You are in my life, so you turn up and you just dispense wisdom and advice

and love and support. Obviously, I'd rather be funny. Plantitudes between the two. But you are funny. I'd be a monster. But everyone don't, would you? Would you honestly? Oh, I don't.

You know what, possibly I would. Possibly I would. You'd rather be a funny monster than a kind... Bloke, it wasn't funny. Yeah. Would you go monster? Oh God. That's how I never have to make that choice.

You know my friend, I say a friend, sitting once in the last eight years. Dennis Leary, my kind of friend. Dennis Leary phoned me up and he was a comedian and film star now. Yeah. And he'd move to... He's got the cone of shame that dog. Oh, yeah, what a shame. I'm sorry he's got the cone of shame.

What happened? Oh. Running with the other dogs? Yeah. It's kind of quite a cool accessory though. Yeah. It's cute though. How long will it be on?

Oh, it's okay. Oh, just a one day only. Okay. See ya. But I think they are that I gave to that dog's neck. neck brace thing shows that I am capable of incincerity. What were you genuinely thinking? Oh I thought, my first thought, my first thought was if you were throwing snacks to this dog,

it's going to be much easy now for him to catch them because he's got a cone on his head. I didn't want to say that to that lady. No, so Dennis Leary said to me that everyone he knew was in therapy. And he said, I think it's a dangerous thing for a comedian. Because I said, I think we are wired wrongly. And that's what makes us comedians. He said, and those people go in and they put your wire incorrect. And then you're not funny anymore. Oh, yeah.

And he said, I know people go when they're in distress. He said, but what would you rather be happy or funny? And I said, funny. And he said, well, exactly. So we can go this way. Should we go that way? I'm a film crew or something. He's going to spring this on me.

that it actually ends with a 40 minutes of stand to my local residents. We should say this like 10 million people. Oh yeah, this is your word down here, isn't it? Yeah. I'm a little bit anxious. Why? We've just walked past a tree with a sign on it since this dog is lost. And it was definitely a picture of peanut.

Oh no. Do you think the dog's dropped? What if I'm suddenly dragged to the ground by two uniforms? by two uniformed policemen. Waiting outside your house. Yeah, this whole thing was a setup. I've been framed. So, I wanted to say as well,

I loved your Johnny Cash thing bank for Sky, which I don't know if when this goes out, I'm sure it will still be on catch up, but... Yeah, it'll be on Catchup forever. Yeah. But yeah, I thought because it was on Sky Arts, which has got the word art in it, that I should make it more than just bang bang gag gag but then I read a review

said talking about Skinner's play for laughs script I thought it was a comedy don't don't read reviews you told me that you know why I never used to read reviews and I've started I've started doing it I think and I'm sure this will be proved wrong I feel that they they are My recovery time has reduced considerably. Oh, really? So when I'm upset. From the dance of the review?

Yeah, because there was a time I'd get a review, and it would live with me for, you know, days, weeks, if it was a bad one. That's why I stopped reading them. But now I seem to be, they still upset me a bad one. But I think it's probably just being old and your memory can't hold. Is that success, though, Frank? I mean, is it easy?

No, because when I was red hot was when I was at my most sensitive about those things. Really? I'm not, look, I would be wrong to say I don't care if, you know, if people, if I read anything bad and I'm still wary of it. But I've noticed that it doesn't hurt like it used to. And that's obviously a good thing. Is that a shift in perspective, which is to do with your kind of personal life changing? Or do you think that's a bit obvious? I don't know what it is.

I think it's my, I have a sort of a strange confidence in my own abilities, which is mixed with, you know, your standard performer insecurity. And I think it's quite often to have that insecurity mixed with a level of self-belief, which is almost psychotic. Such of the high level of my reviews of myself. that other people's reviews they're never as negative about me as I am positive about me

and I know that sounds weird but you know I how do you get like that though because that's a bit of a superpower because don't you think that's the thing that most people stops them achieving or doing what they really want to with their lives is the sense that they'll be judged

or others will think badly of them or it won't be received well? I think it can be So I had a friend who decided he's going to be a comic. So he said, I'm going to get to Edinburgh and do a few gigs, you know, free gigs. So I went with him and he did this gig, this be a place where it's full of students. And it was a very, very tough gig. And he went on and completely, I mean, it was awful.

And loads of people were rolling up balls of paper and throwing them at it. And when he left the stage, there must have been a hundred balls of paper that had just been bouncing off him for these ten minutes. And he came back and sat next to me. And I didn't say anything. And he said, that was all right. And I was taken aback. And I thought it was a joke at first. And then I realized he did think it had gone all right.

And then I thought, you'll never make it as a comic. Really? Because as a comic, you have to hate that expression. experience so much and feel those balls of paper as if they were Kung Fu death stars hitting you. Right. You just never want that to happen again. This is where I used to live with David Badell in that very, very top far.

Oh really? John Colshaw lives there now. Oh yeah. I don't know if he lives there. It's a nice place, Frank. I don't know if he lives there as me or as David Badeel. Is he in the top one? Do you have that very top one?

Offs those in the window. Yeah. Sorry, I thought it's a bottle, the deck, but it. Yeah. Yeah. He, um, I went to his flat. It's very weird going into the flat. Back to your old back, yeah.

But it's a different, obviously it's been call shored. The flat. What does that involve that place? Is that like feng shui? Well, I opened the front door, and there, confronting me on the wall, was an enormous framed, signed photograph of the red arrow. Now that wouldn't have happened in my day.

It was a, I don't know why it had a real effect on me. Why? In it kind of a who? Who? But, you know, it's great. It's the idea that you'd go to the trouble of going to the framers and saying, hello. Who are the red arrows? The whole thing about them is they're anonymity. They're a bit stig-esque, aren't they?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, if they change the red arrows, You wouldn't know, would you? No one just threw a Red Arrow's gig, thinking, Oh, Paul Kendrix isn't flying. Do they make an announcement? Like in the theatre? Today.

The understudy? Yeah. Are we allowed to mention your Edinburgh play? This will go out just before it, I think. Well, I wrote a play because somebody asked me to. They're not because. Yeah. Somebody, I find, and this is a weakness in me,

that if somebody asked me to do something, then I really get down to it. And it's to do with, you know, operating on... It's to do with that moment when you deliver. I delivered it a month early. And it's to do with just getting those rony points makes me feel good about myself. Whereas if you're doing it for yourself, you know, get that.

That's true, yeah. But there's also that thing that you just throw yourself wholeheartedly. If you're doing something, you're just... You're not a half-mast type of person. Yeah, so I really, really enjoyed doing it, I must say. But you're not going to act in it? I'm not in it, no.

It's young people in it. Are you going to be sitting in the front row with the glasses? I'm going to stand at the back with a walking stick, like those old ballet masters in the day gar paintings, watching and giving... No, I see you more of an Arthur Miller with a black polo neck. Oh, yeah. Right, that's what I'm going to be.

We're getting near your home now. Yes. And I think this has been my favourite ever walk. Don't put that in. You'll alienate. What about David Badeal? Well, exactly. Oh, yeah.

Okay. I see what I would say about this podcast is I was once skipping. And I was skipping for about 10 minutes. It's a fitness thing I have. And I thought suddenly occurred to me, do I actually need the skipping rope? I could just jump up and down for 10 minutes. and it would be exactly the same.

I'm slightly feeling that about peanut. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.