Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Frank Skinner Returns!

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

He's back, and this time he has a dog - and an MBE! Today, Emily and Raymond head for a North London stroll with the legendary Frank Skinner and his dog Poppy. Frank chats about sharing his bedroom with an owl, what it means to be capable of kindness and how life with a dog has made his family feel more complete. 30 Years Of Dirt is playing at the Gielgud Theatre in London for 14 nights only from 5th to 17th February 2024, followed by a UK and Ireland tour throughout Spring 2024 - for more information and tickets visit frankskinnerlive.com Listen to Emily's first walk with Frank from June 2018 Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Walking The Dog is a Goalhanger Podcast brought to you by Petplan: visit petplan.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Walking the dog is sponsored by Pet Plan, who pay 97% of all the claims they receive. Pet Insurance can be a confusing business, but I think ultimately it's all about the quality of the vet fee cover provided. Pet Plan cover things other insurers don't and can pay your vet directly, so you get to spend your cash on other essentials. No, Raymond, that doesn't include dog biscuits. Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet Plan is a trading name of Allian's Insurance PLC. But he said to me, Frank, what would you rather be? Funny or happy? And I said, well, funny, obviously.

This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I took a North London stroll with someone who's very close to my heart. Not just because I do a show on Absolute Radio with him, but because he's hands down, one of the funniest, most brilliant people I've ever known. It's the legendary Frank Skinner. Frank hasn't had a dog since childhood, but during lockdown, he and his partner, Martin Cath and Sun Buzz got an adorable cavapoo called Poppy. And I think it's fair to say Frank has officially entered his dog era. He's Poppy obsessed.

And I've actually noticed a lot of dog-like qualities in Frank. He's fiercely loyal, endlessly entertaining, and genuinely once danced with joy watching sausages being cooked. I really hope you enjoy my chat with Frank. And I also urge you to go and see his show 30 Years of Dirt at London's Gilgud Theatre from February 5th to the 17th. because it's honestly a thing of genius. I loved it. So go get tickets at frankskinellive live.com. You can also hear Frank on his brilliant Frankskinner poetry podcast and on

our Saturday morning radio show on Absolute. Okay, enough of me. Let's hand over to the wonderful man himself. Here's Frank and Poppy and Raymond. Have you got poo bags? Of course. Okay, I've got way. You're going to lock up. Well done. Yeah, I'm not sure of cats in, but I'll lock up anyway. Come on, follow Frank and Poppy. Poppy. Oh, we're going to pass David Bediel's house. We are.

Poppy, she might not do it today because we've already been out this morning, but she generally poos outside David's. Right, Poppy. Are you taking Poppy off the lead? Oh God, the joy of having a dog is letting it off the lead. Okay, look. Let's let you off as well. So Frank, I am so thrilled to have you on this podcast.

Frank Skinner, NBE, who is with his beautiful doll Poppy? Can you formally introduce us to Poppy? Yes, Poppy is a cavapoo, which is despite the price tag, what in the old days we would have called a mongrel, in that she's half Cavalier King Charles Spaniel which is painful to me as I would have like to think I would have been a roundhead during the English Civil War and part poodle

I mean I think she's really beautiful she's got sort of darkness around her eyes a bit like Robert Smith from the Cure that makes them sparkle more I haven't done that it came came with the day She's a full-on Disney dog, isn't she? She's really lovely, I think, to look at. And her relationship with Ray, how would you describe it?

Because they've had previous... I think from a distance, Ray can look like a shadow. Ray's small and dark and compact. And I always think of him as very much keeping himself to his self. Yes, I think that's... I don't know if one can truly know. You might. He's unknowable.

Yeah. Whereas Poppy's a bit more, here I am. And you got Poppy. Was it a sort of lockdown thing? Yes, we bought a lockdown dog in direct defiance of government instructions. What happened was our family unit was me and my partner, Kath, and our child boss, who was nine at the the time and Buzz wanted a dog and I was quite keen because I'd grown up with dogs. I was actually raised by dogs in moorland in the West Midlands and never actually saw a human

until I was at least 12. But Kath was absolutely dead against getting a dog. Absolutely not. And then she phoned me one day. Wouldn't I say phone me? We were in the same. We're in the house. So Kath found me up and said that our neighbour had bought a cover poo. It was one of three sisters and another woman who we knew who lived a couple of streets away had bought the second of the sisters. Did I think that we should buy the third sister? And I said, I know what you mean, but you absolutely categorically do not want a dog and you've said that many times. And she said, no, I like the sisters thing now. And I said, no, I'm not following this. If you don't want a dog, the fact that it's two sisters live nearby, what does

that change? And at that point, Kat's sister was moving into our road, or about to. And she said, nothing's a nice thing. My sister's moved in, and then we get a dog with sisters who live locally. It was utter nonsense. It sort of looked like logic from, if you squinted a bit, but it had no logic. So I said, why don't you leave it 24 hours? You know, because you're an anti-dog. And when you've calmed a little with the sisters thing, you probably won't want it. And she said, we'll lose it if we don't get it now. We've got to put down a thousand pounds. This is for a mongrel, remember, half cavalier, King Charles, half poodle. We've got to put down a thousand pounds as a deposit.

I'm trying to remember it's about three grand this dog three grand for it a lockdown they all went up apparently because everyone was thinking it'd be good to have a dog because we never go out and then they eventually remembered oh yeah we do when there isn't a pandemic anyway we got the dog we went and collected it

from Ipswich it was the last one to go so she was in a cage with her mom with her mom looking a bit oh god nearly there and so we took a chihuahua oh it's a pug lovely that's embarrassing yeah I'll just say again that was a chihuahua yeah so so we got it we drove her back I'd never I had a female dog before and I think for the first time I truly understood the whole controversy about pronouns in the 21st century because when someone I'm out walking

with her and someone says he's a nice dog I go she it really annoys me and it matters it matters to me people know When when you were growing up you had dogs, but not dogs in this sense, I don't feel. Like I don't sense that you had much of an emotional relationship with them, or is that unfair? I think we had an emotional relationship. What we had was very little sense of owner responsibility. So we had, I can think of three different dogs we had in my youth, in my childhood. We didn't have a lead.

We never had a dog lead. Because they were never taken for walks. They were released into the night and would come back the next morning, looking like they'd lived. And then I never remember buying a tin of dog food. What did they eat? They ate what we ate. Or rather they ate what we didn't eat.

The first one was a dog called Tiny. That's the one I remember first of all. Our Keats dog originally. and that looked a bit like a sheep dog but had several mixes and then we got a wippy called cowl and there was an idea that we'd have two dogs at the same time but tiny never recovered from us getting a second dog and pined away oh yes I think you told me once she was ill with jealousy yes I think that was true It was a bit like Girls of the Playboy Mansion

that you want to be the dog you know what I mean? I don't mean that they're obviously and then we got Shep who was a Staffordshire bull terrier more or less. Yeah. Generally we just let them out and the butcher

complained to me that our dog was sitting outside the shop barking for bones most days. But that's a dog's that you would see like 10 dogs together. You know, you see dog walkers now? Yeah. You'd see that but without the dog walker. They'd form packs. And they didn't have an appropriate adult. No. Well, we used, I'm sounding breathless here because we are actually ascending. Yes, we are. We used a method popular in the

80s and 90s for football managers of zonal marking. And zonal marking is you're not given a man to mark, you're given an area of the pitch. And whoever goes into it, that's your responsibility. And if you saw a dog doing something, to know, having sex or attacking someone, then it would be your responsibility. you'd look after that dog.

And someone else would be looking after your dog wherever that was. Did your parents, so they didn't have a sense of the dogs being family members in a, really? I don't know that we had that much sense of the family members being family members. I think they would love the dogs. It's just that they weren't fost over in those days in that part of the world. Your brother, because you had Arkeith, Art Terry and Arnora. Yeah. And Art Terry, he had quite a few animals, didn't he?

Yes, well, he, and bear in mind these were different times. But he used to do things, he used to go bird nesting, which is when you take eggs out of bird's nests and blow them. He put an hole in each end and blow the insides out. And he had a lovely display box made out of an old train set carton. And he was really a city boy who wanted to be a country boy. So various pets we had in the house included an owl, a jackdor, and a rat, all of which he'd caught in the wild and then brought back to the house.

So the owl was on top of the wardrobe. The owl was on top of the wardrobe? Yeah. In a cage I would say that was snog for an owl. Did you sleep in the bedroom with the owl? Yes, and we'd get other owls would sit on the trees out. So we don't want to say out. We weren't in the country.

We're in the black country. But there were trees in our road, and they would sit in those trees, and they would call to our owl, and it would call back from the bedroom. There's a floor in the whole arrangement in that you don't want anything nocturnal in your bedroom because they are clearly going to be a disturbance. But the jackdaw, my brother used to bathe it on the hearth side in the washing up bowl. And there'd be water, I mean on the ceiling and the walls. Incredibly very flustered birds, the jackdaws. Jack Doth. But he assured me that it would learn to speak eventually, but it left before that.

Is there a part of you, when you think about, I suppose, the way we indulge our dogs and the way dogs are treated now, is there a part of you that thinks of, like, your dad, thinking, what the hell are you doing spending that kind of money? Well, my dad, because he actually was from the countryside in County Durham, he had that countryside attitude to animals, which, let's call it on sentimental, rather than use the sea word, cruel. He was on sentiment. He did hair coursing and things like that, and he used to pouch. He would knit nets from balls of string. in a rumple stilt-skin manner and then cover rabbit holes that had been spotted.

We'd had to go outside the town for this. And then he'd bring back rabbits to sell. Yeah. He had a no-nonsense attitude to animals, so he wouldn't have... I mean, we never ever went to a vet for any of those. What if the animal was ill? Well, you know. You're going to make an omnis.

But vet seemed like something that middle class people would do. I don't know, in case your listeners are not aware of Hampstead, it's quite a sort of heighty, tight area. And I was on the heath with the dog and with my partner, and there was people feeding the docks on the pond. And of course it was hamster, they weren't giving them bread. as they'd read on the RSPB website that that was bad for dogs. They were giving them some sort of dried fruit.

So Poppy raced over. She was very little then and started chomping out of this bag. And the guy said, oh wow, your dog loves raisins. and that was at the mention of raisins, Poppy starts barking. Poppy! So, yeah, he said, your dog loves raisins. And Kath went, oh my God. And I said, what is it?

And it turns out raisins are dog kryptonite. If dogs eat raisins, they're dead. So we went to the vet and said, we think the dogs just had a load of raisins. And she was in scrubs and stuff. and said, oh my God, okay, we're going to sort it out. Don't worry, just sit down and took the dog in the back room. And I always know when they take the dog in the back room at the vet,

what they're going to come out with is a bill as well as a dog. Anyway, they went and they gave the dog stuff to make it sick. And then she came out. We were anxious. I'll be honest. And the vet emerged from the back room after about half an hour and said, I think one of the most hamstered things that was ever said, she said, great news, it's goji berries. And yeah, the people had said raisins as a sort of a catch-all phrase, but they were in fact giving the dogs goji berries, which the vet assured us was actually very good for dogs now that we'd

flushed them out and she'd been through this enforced vomiting. But... Look at this big old thing. Yeah, there's a big... What's that, Frank? Poppy's a little uneasy with the very large dogs. That looks like a man. And not just a man, it looks like one of those sort of...

It's a bit salt and pepper, I still got it, Italian man. Yes, I can... In his 50s. I can see that. I don't want any dog that if it goes mad, I won't be able to physically... to physically handle. Now I feel like that. I don't want to feel...

I think you'd be all right with Ray. I think with Ray you could probably take the edge of its wild rage with one of those plastic tennis rackets they used to electrify flights. Poppies, I would say she's quite... Do you want to walk more, Poppy? Quite a nervy dog. But I think nerviness often comes with warm heart. and kindness. So, you know. I think she's got a very kind soul. It makes me feel good that I've

got a sort of part poodle thing. Obviously a lot of men do feel that they need to have a dog that represents their inner mailedness. Because of my ultra confidence, I don't fall into that trap. Well, you're an interesting combination because I would say you've got, character energy as the youth would say right but I wouldn't describe you as an alpha male no I would say I'm testosterone intolerance sometimes men come up to me in the street often like middle-aged men and start talking about stuff like this woe rubbish and I find it really horrible and I just what I want to do is a sort of Will Smith slap because I don't I don't want to

buy into their world by clenching my fist. Take my wife's name out your Godham. I want to humiliate them as well as physically home. I want it to be the kind of attack that Scarlett O'Hara might have used, been gone with the wind. But no, I don't like it. I don't. Do you think that's something people get wrong about you sometimes, who don't know you well? Probably, yeah. I think I probably brought it on myself with talking about football. and ladies over the years that people think I'm a bit of an oik. I think I've got some oik in me. But it's set in impenetrable courts.

Janet wanted to say something. I don't know what. Janet says. Wait. Are we going too quickly? No, I just want to find out where. What was Janet going to say? That's what on your podcast I would call hamstered at moss.

It sounded very like a sort of, and now on Radio 4, today's play, Janet wants to say something. Yes, exactly. Why don't you could be a regular programme in which Janet, whoever she is, talks about the world that week. And there'll be more from Janet wants to say something next Tuesday. stay on Radio 4. The award goes to Janet wants to say something. Thank you and I think this is a great idea.

Yeah. Do you find that interaction with people? Do you like that? Do you know what to me? When people come up and say, oh hi Frank? Oh I like all that, yeah. Do you? That's about that's about

the level of intimacy I'm comfortable with. It's selfie level of intimacy. I would say, no, I've always liked that. And when people moan about it, I mean celebs, I always think, oh, shot your face. I don't believe it. I don't believe that people find it annoying.

I think I'd better not admit that this makes me feel proud and successful. Do you think it's disingenuous most of the time? Yeah, I do. Because, yeah, it does make me feel proud and successful. Pride is a sin, of course. And even when you get bad stuff in the newspapers, you know, I always thought this is how famous I am, that I'm actually in here getting this.

And I say, and obviously it sounds sort of terrible, but it only sounds terrible because so many people lie about it. and talk about how humble they are and that they don't need all that kind of stuff in their lives. Well, I always remember you saying that you were staying in a hotel. You didn't understand why celebrities would eat breakfast in their room. No, I know. There was a period.

When I first got famous, I wouldn't holiday abroad because I just couldn't cope with not being recognised. Obviously, that's slightly exaggerated, but not without truth. I can't name, but a comedian said to me, we had to film something in town, a photo shoot in town. And I said, let's get the tube. And he said, I can't get the tube. I'll be mobbed. And I remember thinking, but I am much more famous than you.

And I get the tube all the time. I think I honestly grow up. But I'm interested in how you deal with encounters with people, I suppose, which happened with dogs. mainly because I'm slightly obsessed with your how your dad was quite wary with strangers. He had an interesting way of dealing with them. Well my dad used to have salt in his jacket pocket just in the pocket you know salt cell in the cellar and he always used to say if ever someone's coming up and you realize things are going wrong, you just put your hand in your pocket and then don't make a big violent gesture, just very casually throw salt

straight into their eyes. I've never done he. And I'm not, I don't know if he ever did, but he did have the salt in the pocket. But he came from a much harder time. You know, he grew up in the Depression in the Northeast and all that. And I think there were people stopping people to steal the lunch they were taking to work. So it was a bit more dog-eat-dog, or at least dog-eat-pasty. But he also used to say, when people asked you for the time, he'd say that's how they get you. Well, he came in one night with his hand badly swollen, and he said that a man had asked him the time, and he'd knocked him over a garden walk, recognising that it was a ruse and a sort of preamble to a mogging. I think this bloat was like about 55 perfectly respectable chap in the

street, you know, not an obvious hudler. But like I say, if you've grown up through that and the war and all that, I guess it makes you different. I always think it's interesting that you're, you speak very warmly and you're very accepting of your parents. In a way, I always think it's interesting that you're, you're way that I suppose a lot of people tend not to these days. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of of well I inherited this and I had this issue and you know and I hands up I'm one of those. Well my mother was an epitome of kindness and selflessness. I mean that is when people talk about love without any sort of conditions that was what you got. I honestly, I'm If I'd have shot seven people in a McDonald's, my mom would still have been bringing me

cake at the prison. I'm sure of that. And my dad was a, you know, he could be a difficult and even violent man. But he had a tremendous passion for music, for having a laugh, for football, for the Roman Catholic Church, all of which have been central strands to my life. life. I've felt tremendous love from them and love always feels better when it's set in poverty, I think. It just gives it that little sparkle amidst the gloom. What qualities do you think you've got from your mum and what have you got from your dad? Well, I can't say that I've inherited

selflessness and kindness, really. I think I'm capable of kindness, but it's more of a display than a instinctive thing. I remember I read Tom Jones when I was at, not the singer, the novel by Henry Fielding, 18th century. Has Tom Jones written a book? If he's got to have, he had to have gone for it's not unusual.

What would he have gone for? I think it'd been great if he'd have. called it it's unusual because his life has been unusual. Actually it is very unusual. What if it turns as it turns out it is unusual if he'd called it that. Tom Jones is a bit of a rascal, the character in the book, but he aspires to being a good-natured man. That's the phrase that Fielding uses over and over. And that's what I aspire to being to being a good-natured man I think I sometimes in the work context I sometimes find myself and have found myself in the past certainly as the person

who cares the most in the room and that's always a difficult place to be I think can be exasperating but I've mellowed so Sometimes though it's interesting though, I think those working relationships, and I would say this because we've worked together for 15 years now, but you know it's like in relationships and you think this person's... These are the bits I like on Radio 4 when you can hear the gravel under our feet. What are they called again Frank? Those people paid to do that. There's a job title. Yeah, the Foley. Foley people. Yeah, and they do things like for this they wouldn't actually use gravel. I think for walking through snow for example they use a corn meal

and I think a pestle I realise now I don't know which is the pestle and which is the mortar The pestle is the rod I like that you've gone for pestle The bulbous rod Is it isn't it pestle? Can you not say the bulbous rod? I think I can say that

I really prefer it if you didn't I was just pointing out Rod you were coming over the bridge of the hill. He likes to be called the bulbus as his standing adjective. So I would have gone for Pessel. Oh, maybe it is Pescel. I'm frightened because it's so adjacent to Pizzle. Oh, you're perfectly comfortable with the bulbous rod. Anyway, that's how they do walking through snow, because walking through snow apparently doesn't sound like walking through snow.

And they use marbles in glasses instead of ice because ice doesn't sound like ice. Oh yes. The folia operators. Oh, do you know what I've noticed? I love pop. Poppy loves to chase a ball. She's got a ball here which is about a third of a ball remaining ball. It's the most tragic thing.

Go on off you go. She'll still chase it. Go on. Go on, love. Oh, it's hard to kick half a ball. I like it. It proves we've got an actual dog. I like her bark. Yeah. Go so far.

I like... This is a treat for me, Frank, because Ray, as you know, has never uttered a sound. Well, when people stand outside our front window, the dog goes... The pre-bark, the pre-bark warm-up. What's this? There's a... Yeah, there is a tree trunk which people have drawn really quite nice faces on. It's beautiful though, isn't it?

I wouldn't even call them graffiti that. They're actually quite subtle and... It's very goji berries area. Yes, it is. It's probably done in the due half. Goji berries so as not to damage the trunk. But I think that's not to damage the trunk. But I think that's a very...

It's interesting, I was going to say, when you work with people, I wonder sometimes is it more a case of finding the right people to work with? You know, it's like with relationships when you say, oh, I feel too much this way or I feel too much this way. And then you think, well, maybe there's someone out there who won't make you feel those things. Well, I'd say I'd stay, I've stayed friends with all the good people. Really? I think I once did TFI Friday and Chris Evans was known as a bit of a tyrant in those days and it was the last minute rehearsal before he went live on air to I don't know how many it was 3 million views and he was just trying out this little sketch they were doing and he reached out

and he said hold on where's the soda siphon and somebody said, oh sorry, I'll get it. And he said, we're on air in four minutes. It needs to be here. And everybody started looking at me, rolling their eyes and stuff. And I thought, there's no one noticed that he's right. That this person had a job of doing it. This bloke's about to be live on air for whatever he was, two or three hours.

He's trying this out because he wants to get it right. And somebody couldn't be bothered to make sure of the soda. in the right place. And I thought that's a fair summary often of when you hear about monstrous celebrities that you should always try and unpick the person who's telling you about it. And then he said to me, I always want to say, yeah, but what did you do? What level of incompetence did you subject him to, to drive him to this? I think there are monsters. And I think I was a difficult man to work with when I was in my glory days at times. But I think people who basically, I used to give this speech which everyone hated me for, in which I'd say, I've got friends back in the

West Midlands who were bright, articulate, sharp, industrious, conscientious people. And they work in factories now and on the bins. And if they'd have been in the right place to the right kind of family, they'd be doing this job, a job that everyone wants. And I don't resent the fact that you got lucky and got that opportunity, but recognising as a privilege, take it seriously, and give it 100%. And that always went badly. Did it? Of course it did. I. I did. I I did feel like that at times. I certainly, having put in 15 years, I've always felt valued and appreciated.

And I guess respected. So you can't have a working relationship for that length of time. You know, I snapped at you. You might have got irritated with me over the years. Not that frequently, to be honest. No. But at no point, you know, that feeling you get

when you think I'm not appreciated here I've never ever felt that. No, but that is the case. And the case of that is, A, you're very good, I know I can count on you. I know if there's a fire in the studio and I decide that we should carry on,

you'll carry on, albeit in breathing equipment. But that's... We should say this is the radio show that we do on absolute. Hello, doggy. Frank Skinner show, unsurprisingly. And it's our 15th year this year.

And I think I've realized something, which I don't think I've ever told you this, but... Because when I started out, I had very little broadcast experience. I wasn't very good. And I was female in what was essentially quite a male-dominated field. It still is. And I think what terrified me was how much space you gave me. Well, when I knew you before that, we were always in very tough company.

And we were often in the company of largely male celebrities who were great raconteurs, very funny, loud, abrasive. But I think it was harder for a woman to cope in that. because you didn't always, when you started your anecdote, sometimes they continued on to their next one. Yeah. And I think I thought, God, if this woman, who is still hilarious and fascinating in this company, was actually given a bit of space and a proper chance to be,

I think she'd be amazing. and I think I've been proved right in there. What a lovely thing to say. I know there's probably people throwing up as they listen to this, but it's true. I would say that was a feminist act, but I don't know if you feel entirely comfortable with being the label of feminist for you.

Like I say, I was doing it very much because I thought it would be beneficial for the show. I wasn't doing it as an act of philanthropy to give this pole girl a chance. It wasn't that. I just, you know, sense that you had a specialist about you. Well, I think you were early to the party when you've worked with women, you know,

that you've just viewed them as performers rather than, you know, if you find someone, funny they're funny it's not well I'd hear something about that I when I was doing panel shows let's say room 101 which I did for like seven series and then Danny Cohen who was the boss of the BBC said right you have to have a woman on a panel show you can't you can't do it from now on that's the rule and I thought Well, I've always followed that rule. I wish you hadn't made it a rule now.

But also, there was one episode of Room 101 when we had three white men on you. And it was because someone pulled out the last minute and that's how it went. And it was a good show and that, but it feels different. And for all this talk about, oh, you know, diversity, you meet these white guys who say,

you know, we can't get work anymore and all that. It feels better. A show just feels better. If you've got that sort of representation, it feels like a nicer place to be. And a sort of a richer atmosphere. Yeah. Yeah, I think rules that, you know, are good, but it's nice if you can get to those places without them. Walking the dog is sponsored by Pet Plan. As some of you may know, I'm fussy when it comes to my dog. which is why I never went back to that groomer who gave him a mullet.

But I'm fussiest of all when it comes to his health, and that's why I've always insured him with Pet Plan. I've always found them so easy to deal with, and they cover things other insurers don't, which is probably why they're the UK's number one pet insurer. Your number one as well, Raymond? Calm down. Terms, conditions and excesses apply. Pet Plan is a trading name of Allian's Insurance PLC.

You know, as we're on the Heath and in a very poetic setting, you can feel where I'm going. We're at one with nature. I feel this is very appropriate. This is my kind of nature. I like my nature, but you know there's a Sainsbury's local. No more than five minutes. And there's a nice, clean bit of tarmac to walk on. Yes.

I want to discuss your fabulous poetry podcast, which has been so phenomenally successful. I feel really proud of you. because I think it was quite a risky move when you decided to do that. Well, I thought it would be so obscure that even if it failed, it wouldn't be rather that it was criticised. It would be more that no one had noticed it had happened. And so I sort of thought it would slide by and maybe twice a year, someone on a train would say, I'll listen to your poetry podcast.

But yeah, suddenly it was getting like five-star reviews in the times and stuff like that. I think why I loved it when I first heard it was I realised that I'd never heard poetry, or if I'm honest, even literature, discussed in that sort of conversational, chatty, crucially normal way. people tend to do a phone voice whenever they're talking about those subjects. Yes. And I think with popular culture people are very comfortable talking about films in a chatty way or succession or whatever or music. Well I remember I said to Bewer who financed the podcast, the company that also own absolute radio. I said, look I'm passionate about football and I'm passionate about poetry.

And I don't see why they should be discussed in different ways. And that was it really. You got to be careful if you know that voice when people read poetry. And they're going to, oh, no, all right, gale, good. Calm down. I should say we're on top of Parliament Hill, which is something of a landmark in these parts. Puppie's met a friend, Frank. Poppy's met a wippy. But yeah, I feel like there was one, I think it was Shelley.

I remember you opened it and you started saying, well, I remember the first time I heard Shelley and it was Mick Jag at her. Yeah. And I thought, oh, okay, I'm in now. You know what I mean? If you'd have started with a look, Shelley was born. I would have thought, no, I'm out. But I think that's an important point because it's all about not seeing poetry as,

in a sealed container somewhere, I've seen it all over the place and part of the world and part of life. I was a kid watching the Rolling Stones live at Hyde Park on the telly and Mick Jagger holds a book in his hands very dramatically and says, he is not dead, he doth not sleep, he hath awakened from the dream of life. Even then, I think, unless I've elaborated, I thought, oh God, that's an interesting idea. So you're not going into this sort of terrible void. You're coming out, life is that, and then you're going somewhere special. But he was reading Shelley, and it's what Shelley had written about Keats, who just died. And Keats had died at 25, And Brian Jones, the Rolling Stones guitarist, that just died age 27.

So it was all popular culture and poetry all mixed up together. Well, Poppy wants to go that way. Poppy's doing the... No, she wants to go that way because my sister-in-law lives down there. She's got a back gate onto the heath. But we're not doing it. She'll give him. So it was actually exactly how poetry should be used, I think, is that

that Mick wanted to say how they felt, because they'd sacked Brian Jones. A lot of people think that Brian Jones was a rolling stone when he died, but they'd sacked him shortly before because of erratic behavior and some habits that they felt didn't suit the professionalism of the thing. Do you think having Poppy has been,

makes you, feel, I always think dogs feel like the full stop on a family. I do think of Poppy, not exactly as a family member, which would be a bit freaky, but I see her as a sort of a completion of our family. Because there's just me, Kath and Boss. And we went on holiday, not long after we had Poppy, and we got out the car, we spilled out of the car. And I don't think three people can spill.

But four just makes it enough. And I also think that if you've got any trouble at home, having someone in the homestead who is basically coldly indifferent is a great place to hide, if you know what I mean, a great place to go to. If you think poppy's indifferent, imagine what Terry's owl is like. You don't get much from an owl, do you? Terry's owl was, there was always a sense of brooding wisdom.

You'd get nothing, nothing back from that owl. Did the owl have a name, by the way? No. I think Terry would have regarded that as a frippery to name them. I know what you mean about dogs. Someone, I can't remember where it was, but someone said that dogs are for children essentially because they're the gods of frolic.

And I like that idea because I always think it's quite a good test if people have a sense of the absurd. Yes. I mean I can't say that I feel about my dog the way I feel about my child.

That would not be correct. We walked the Thames path the four of us recently and Poppy likes to swim so she got in the river and this cop will come up and said excuse me, but they're tipping quite a lot of raw sewage into this area. And I think it's quite bad for a dog. We don't let our dog go in here anymore. And I said, she loves to swim

though. And they said, yes, but you know, I'm sure you wouldn't want anything terrible to happen. And I said, well, we can always get another one. And I only said that just to put in perspective, you know, but it is it is true But I know what you mean Because someone said to me when I got Ray Who as you know was sort of Let's be honest

An element of him being a slight Grief and bereavement plaster Which I think is no bad thing No I agree It's like when I said to my therapist Do you think Ray's a child substitute And you went Yeah probably, that's all right isn't it?

Yeah And it was like oh yeah okay And you know what it says on the Animals at War Monument They had no choice. Ray was brought in, brought in as a grief counselor. All he wanted to do was to chase a ball. He had no choice, right?

No choice. I remember the first time I saw that monument. He had no choice. Animals go to war. And to choose as a caption, they had no choice. The first time I saw it from the boss, I thought, well then why do we sell? their courage. They were impelled. But I, you know, I remember I used to say when we first got Poppy,

I used to say to you, I don't feel the love yet. Yeah, I remember you said to me, when does the love happen in? Yeah. And I thought, all right, black eye, please. And then you said, no, when will I feel the love? And I said, well, it's a reciprocal relationship. When you give it, you'll guess it. I sense there was a moment when you you got it? Well I don't remember I didn't have a sort of road to Damascus experience but I remember slowly becoming aware of the glow and why do you think that was partly to do with the joy that she brings buzz as well your son for a start of when we got Poppy I was interviewed shortly afterwards by a time journalist and he said I hear you've got a dog and I said yeah and he said now I've

just interviewed a dog psychologist and he said that when a dog enters a home it latches onto the person that it perceives to have all the power and sticks with them and Poppy has absolutely done that with Kath which is I I absolutely agree with her assessment. As her assessment of how the family works. And she honestly would do anything for Kath. Kath was out next door talking to the neighbour yesterday and Poppy was running up and down the wall between our houses.

Not barking but going, ooh! So I think the dog version of Billy Fury's half-like. of paradise that says so near yet so far away. She just wanted to be with Kat. You could hear Kath, but she couldn't have the contact. And in the end where Bos had to lift her over the wall. Look, come on Ray. Look at his little black beauty, Ryan. Yeah. Come on Ray. We're going to grab a tea to take with us. Frank, what would you like? I just tea would be great for me. Just I'll have a tea as well. Shall we sit down here? Yeah, I'll grab Ray. Hang on.

Do you think David Badele would get a dog, Frank? No, he's very feline. He's one of the cat people, isn't he? I'm actually, in later life, I've become allergic to cats. And so is Kath and so is boss. So it's an absolute no-no for us. When we did this podcast before, a few years back, you said something to me,

and I couldn't really give you an answer. you said to me, what do you think is my worst flaw? Or what would you describe as a fault of mine? And I kind of almost vomited when you asked me that because that's a level of honesty that I feel slightly uncomfortable with. Yeah, I can say that. I've been thinking about that question on a very regular basis ever since that moment. Right.

And you may well view this as a cop-out, but something occurred to me. which is that when you're friendly with a comic, I think you have to accept that their character bugs, if you like, are sort of so much part of their features. They're part of their design. So in a way, their flaws form the bedrock of their comedy. So if I took away the things that maybe I found challenging about you. I wouldn't have the funny stuff.

Here's an example. Your refusal to sort of abide by the social contract, which I find excruciating sometimes, but also things you've done make me laugh on a weekly basis when I remember them. I just think of emails you've sent, where everyone else is dancing around a subject. You know, every quarter we get the figures. and obviously they go sometimes they're stable generally I was a very good mate I say but they might say

no real news but everything's stable and we're still continuing to grow everything's fine across the board and we'll all reply thank you great thanks for letting us know you will say well I for one won't sleep tonight followed by

hold my hand someone Well, so I mean, I think it's important not to use that as an excuse for being abrasive. I'm friends with an American comic called Dennis Leary. And I don't know if I told you this on the last podcast, but he went from being just a comic, a very brilliant comic, to being a film star. And he moved from New York to L.A. some of the time to film. And he said to me, he phoned me up and he said,

I said, what's it like? What's Hollywood like? He said, everyone I'm working with has got an analyst. He said, I didn't know anyone in New York who had one. And I said, oh, that's, I suppose that's to be expected. Are you going to get one? He said, but don't you see, you and I, there's something wrong with our wiring and that makes us comedians

and if we let someone in to put that wiring right we will be funny anymore and he said some of these people they are quite tortured people and they've gone and it's you know it's made them better but he said to me Frank what would you rather be funny or happy and I said well funny obviously

And I guess that's someday old. But then you are someone who, Kath describes you as having a lot of sort of high, naturally high serotonin levels. Do you think that's true? Your default setting is sort of mostly happy? I think I'm probably 80% cork. So I remain buoyant through some, you know, dark times. usual dark times, parents dying and all those things you know about. Of course.

But I've never despaired. Have you not? No. And that is a blessing. I mean, she bases my high serotonin levels on, you know that oven doors have a window often. And when she first came around my flat, or one of the first times, She came into the room and I was doing a little dance in front of the oven watching sausages cooking. She had joy of anticipation and that was when she said I think you might have high serotonin level.

But you always like that even let's say because you know now you haven't had money worries for a while. you know, a lot of those, what is it they call the basic pyramid of needs, are met, or you've met yourself, I should add. So when you were, let's say, broke, not sure what you wanted to do with your life, were you as happy? Would you still be doing the sausage dance then? I think I was, or certainly not far off. You know, I was interviewed by Michael Parkinson.

And the idea was that I'd go on. I knew what was coming. They were going to ask me about my battle with the bottle. But the camera, I knew that I could feel the asphyxiation of the camera tightening. You know, the camera used to go in for the close-up to see if there was any tears. And he said, what was like, you know, so drink was a terrible thing in your life. I said, no, drink was a brilliant thing in my life. I said, if it had been a terrible thing, I wouldn't have got so ensnared in me.

But in fact, it was a series of glorious carefree adventures, which sober, I don't quite have the personality to pull off. I said, but it was brilliant. I wish I could continue with it, but it was making me ill. Some people are lucky enough to be able to drink forever. And I said, no, really, it was, you know, I've never experienced that same white heat of happiness that I did when I was drinking. And he was saying, but it, you know, it made you very ill, didn't it? And I said, eventually, but for most of it, and he was starting to get exasperated.

And it culminated in, they had an Olympic romew. on the show with me. I said to him... Oh, Frank? What's this dog called? Wilson. Oh, Wilson's a nice name. Is you're talking season? No, he doesn't have seasons, yeah. He's permanently autumn, winter. Nice to meet you, Wilson.

So I turned to Matthew Pinson, the Olympic Rower. They have three people on at the same time in the later Parkinson. I said, did you find that when you were very focused? And Parkinson said, are you talking to him or doing the interview? I said, well, why is he there if I can't talk to him? He said, are you doing the interview? I said, well, why not just get me on there? He's got to sit there.

So it ought to do not go that well with Parkinson. But that is, that sort of just nailed very neatly, an example of, the bog and the feature with you. But it is a fair point. You know, and I think in the 70s, Parky was, it was a bit of a man about town, quite fashion, you know, fancy car and all that.

And I was talking to Roy Slow Talker Walker, who used to host the catchphrase in the early day. And he said to me, he was at the BBC once with Eric Morecam. He said, And like he said, he was saying, you know, Parky was really, really fancied himself and was very cool. He said, we got out of our Rolls Royces and we walked towards the lift. And the doors opened.

And Parkinson was there. He said, in a full length black leather overcoat and a black leather, a large black leather cap. And he said, the doors open to reveal him. And Eric Morecambe said, hello, Parky. Have you come as a wallet? And I think he needed a little bit of bubble bursting. Frank, I'm contractually obliged to mention, but I would mention this anyway, that your show, 30 years of dirt you've just sold out at the Edinburgh Festival.

I went to see it, and it's so brilliant. Do you know what I loved when I came to see that show at The Moth, which was this very trendy club. Too trendy for the likes of us, one would have thought. I hope that's not unfair, but you know, it's the young people. No, I think I, as I said, I'm taking the coolness down at this club, a bit like when people accidentally put warm food in the fridge. No, but what I liked was I found myself sitting there feeling,

it's quite difficult watching you because I'm also scrutinising the face of every audience member. So am I, dear. I know, but I feel like. one of the I'm more like the you're the skater I'm the Russian ice skating coach oh yeah staring down at the judges and what I loved and what really heartened me and I suppose I just felt quite proud of you was seeing how how the young people were kind of responding to you like all these young people and I thought oh you're getting it you're discovering him and I really loved that and I thought that's interesting that I'm not sure every

comic would be able to transcend that generational divide. But I think you do. Why do you think that is? Well, I think there's a theory that older comics are unappealing to younger. I mean, that's why you don't get many old comics on the telly. You don't get anyone my age, really, hardly ever on the telly doing comedy. We're doing documentaries, you know what I mean? So I think there is a feeling that it's probably somebody.

to do with the human face when you get to my age. You know, people at home thinking, I'm eating, they don't really want that on the tell. You know, I mock myself for doing some vintage references, but I like to think there's enough accessibility for all, as it were. But I never, I can only see, from where I stand in the spotlight, I can only use the see the first three or four rows. And that is often where the older people head

so they can see and hear me. But when, for example, you do Edinburgh now, compared with when you first went over 30 years ago, wasn't it now, you, that level of nerves and anticipation you must have felt, going on stage for the first time thinking, well, this is all my money and it's going on this gig. if this doesn't work out, I'm a bit screwed.

Presumably, as there's less riding on it now, does that change how you feel backstage? Does it increase or decrease the nerves? Or do you feel much more in a relaxed head space? Well, the honest answer to that, though it might sound a little airy-fairy, is the priority is so much what the show is, how I perform it and how the audience respond.

that all those things seem very secondary. I don't need to do Edinburgh anymore. And I probably wouldn't be completely confident that I could give a thorough answer to why I did it, especially for a month. People were saying to me, but you're supposed to come in for three nights at the playhouse and then go home.

That's what comics at that level do. But I wanted to be there, and I wanted to do the show over and over and over in front of those audiences. And I also think the thing with me is that people when they get older, often they say, I like doing the shows, but oh God, can't cope with motorway travel, motorway services, hotels. But I love all that part of it. I think the love of the shows will probably go first for me.

And I'll have to just do motoring and holdings. the days. But I, you know, I love getting at a motorway services at 3am with a support act and a tour manager and having three crispy creams. But you know what that is? It's dancing with the sausages. I think it probably is. I think we're going to have to, I think I see a play coming. Another radio four drama. Dancing with the sausage. With the sausages. That would be the, you know, the American version of Strictly's dancing with the stuff. That'll be the German version. Dancing with sausages.

Yes, with bradwurst. I am, no, do you know what I mean? I can see, sometimes we'll get sent something. Someone will send us something into the radio show. Think of an example, Frank. A tonnex tea cake. Tonnix tea cake, very good. We've got that recently.

And Frank will say, oh, we've got tunics. Oh, and I think you're a man of property. You've done all right for you. But it's, I think you have never lost that. almost childish glee. It's like I can't believe I'm in this position. No, I think I am an enthusiast certainly and I do get very excited about things happening to me which I, you know, think I am blessed to be experiencing. That has never gone away and I think although I hated working in factories and that a lot of the time, I think having a rubbish job makes a good job

and in fact a brilliant job be even more brilliant in contrast. Is that difficult as a parent because you're thinking, well I know this was the making of me and it's made me appreciate it, but I don't, I want my son to always be happy. So where does, how do you, how does that work? I think that must be quite tough as a parent. Yeah, I think always happy is only accessible to the simpleton. My dad was worried that I'd have no money and nowhere to live and I'm worried that

Bos will be a NEPO baby and won't really appreciate things. So parents always find stuff to worry about no matter how completely different they are. I mean, I think parental is about letting go from very soon on. At least Ray never leaves me. He's trapped. No. What is it they said on the memorial? They had no choice.

Exactly. Exactly. Although in fairness, that could have been said of my childhood. They had no choice when we were carted around to Madame Jojo's at three in the morning. No, it's probably true of most of us, I suppose. In a quick summary, I was very much drifting around fairly purposelessly. My headmaster said that he feared I might be. a tramp, which is the word of the time.

He could imagine me becoming a tramp. And I said, okay. And then I said, you haven't got any ten pence for a couple of times. No, I didn't. So I was very aimless and drinking a lot and all that. And then I discovered comedy and everything, every light came on in the house, if you like. And I thought this is so,

is so it. I found it, an experience which a lot of people don't have. And I would say for 25 years, everything in my life was second to that and quite a distant second. And I gave as much as I could to that. And it, you know, it was good for me and I was very respectful of it and worked very hard as hard as I could. And then when I reached the point where I thought that I'd met this woman who I loved so much that I would like some concrete manifestation of that love, i.e., a person made of that love, I thought, well, then I have to do a deal. And the deal would be that I'm going to have to give a lot less to my career, because

you've only got so much to give. And so I made that deal. And I've never regretted it. So, I mean, one could argue that, you know, the career has suffered for it. But that seems a small price to pay for the joy it's brought. But of course, eventually, if I live on, there'll be a point where I'm saying,

you never call me, etc., etc. But this stage and the stage where you are together is so, for me at least, so brilliant and so fulfilling that I'm hoping that when he never calls me, I'll think, oh, now I can read that book. I wasn't able to read, and I can learn old English and do stuff like that. Sorry, Poppy's seen a cat.

All right, all right, all right, all right. All right, Poppy, all right. I'm glad she was on the lead for that beer. Can I just say? That was very enlightened West Bromwich. All right, all right, all right. The way you dealt with that, I got a little glimmer then of you breaking up a fight.

All right, all right, mate. Come on, lads. Nobody wants to get into trouble. Frank, David Bredilson, I think some building work, and I'm just saying they're sitting in his window with the radio on. What if he isn't having building work? What if we find he's got squatters? You might just be the person to give this.

You look like somebody well known, but I could be wrong. Okay, well. Don't worry. So if you need a dog walk, I just promote business. I got to do. Okay, that's far off. Is that a schnauzer? No, he's a shih Tzu.

Okay, lovely. There's a lady here, brilliant business. She does a lot of walking in this. I am a dog walker, but I'm not promoting that for myself, but she does the GPS collar. Everything that you need, they will match with their service. So you need any help, do you reach out? Cheers, okay.

I hope you have a lovely day. Thank you, you too. I thought that was, do know, those cupets you put under your old? I know. Can I say hello? You say all the right thing. I'm the chlamour, not really. Really, wow.

And did you say a chit-su? Yeah, shih Tzu. Is he cross or mixed? He's an imperial shih Tzu. Gosh, does that mean his special breed? I'd like to think so. He's your baby, isn't he? He is really, he's a child's obstitute.

I've got a chihuahua at home that's like, you know, you can pull the legs off. Oh, don't do that. No, I think that's a daddy long. I think you'll think, you know. after that. Nice to meet you, bye-bye. Sorry, just admire your dog. Oh, thank you.

Nobody ever admires my dog. It's unusual. I've never seen a dog like that. Raymond, he's called. Lovely to meet you. Oh, we're getting back to your house. I've really loved this walk. Good.

And it really gives me a happy heart seeing you with Poppy. Because I feel you've got the love with her now. Well, I, although I live next to Hampstead Heath, which is one of the most beautiful places in London, I never used to go on it much, because I think something about a grey-haired man walking about the heat on his own, which makes me think of something dark and a little on savoury might be going on. But when you've got a dog, it seems to legitimise. People are not threatened by me. walking along with a cavapoo. I never knew about this, but I see people on the Heath,

usually older people admittedly, and I think a dog operates as an anti-loanliness advice, a device. And I don't mean the dog solves the loneliness. I mean, they talk to every other dog owner they pass, and it becomes this mobile community, which everyone who's got a dog, It's like a ticket to that community. And that's a really nice thing. I mean, I personally listen to audio books as a way of avoiding it, but I like it for the others. Frank, will you say goodbye to Ray?

Oh, well, Ray, goodbye. It's been emotional. We love you, Frank. I love that Ray stopped with a centre party after all these years. Still got the curtains, like an 80s footballer. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed.

And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.