Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Graeme Hall Returns!

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

This week Ray and Emily went for a walk in the Cotswolds with the Dogfather, Graeme Hall. Graeme comes to see Ray in person for a one-to-one session. They also discuss Graeme’s new book and live show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I was coming out of a service station last week and a lady spotted me and I've never had a reaction quite like this. She shouted very loudly, Graham Hall. Small pause. I have a schnauzer! And I just wish I was quick enough to come up with the answers because the options are, A, don't tell everyone they'll all want one. B, you think you're special, I once met a lady with three schnauzers. I couldn't think of any of those at the moment. This week on Walking the Dog, I decided to take Raymond back to school. Mature student, I know, and see how he fared under the forensic eye of Britain's most celebrated dog trainer, dogs behaving very badly presenter, Graham Hall. Now, last time I chatted to Graham for this podcast, we couldn't do it in person due to lockdown.

But he assured me he was dying to meet Raymond in real life for a one-to-one session. So he could offer some, I mean, he called it gentle advice. I call it bite of the reality sandwich. So Raymond and I pop to the Cotswolds where Graham is based for our walk slash terrifying exam. And Graham wasn't hard to find because he drives a white Land Rover with a number plate dog, which at some point I intend to steal off him. Graham is best known, of course, for the wonderful dogs behaving very badly on Channel 5. He's also written to fabulous books recently, all dogs great and small,

and perfectly imperfect puppy. Graham is adorable. He's so charismatic and warm and very unlike that traditional notion of the dog trainer as a sort of instructor in SAS are you tough enough? Instead, he teaches through encouragement and positivity and crucially, he's a good laugh and he genuinely has some strange, magical affinity with dogs.

Raymond was literally a lovesick puppy around him. I mean, I say puppy, Raymond's actually a 35-year-old man in dog years still living with his mum, but, you know, we're all a work in progress. I really hope you enjoy my chat with Graham and do go and see him live while you can. His shows are packed with funny stories and practical advice and he'll be answering all your dog-related questions. He's playing all over the country for the next few months

and you can get tickets at grahamhall live.com. I'm going to hand over to the man himself now. Please remember to follow us, rate and review. Without further ado, here's Graham and Raymond. Hello, Ray Ray. Come here, hello. You're cute, are you? You're even littler in real life. He's a good boy. Should we go for a walk? Come on.

I think he really likes you already, Graham. Come on, mate. Yay! What do you think so far? He's pretty good, didn't he? Off lead as well. I don't know he makes of the Cotswolds, but... You're going to discover that Raymond treats walking like he's browsing around a shopping centre and he's going, oh, there's a sail on and Zahar off up in there. Yeah. He sniffs a lot, Graham.

Well he will be here. He's used to London, isn't he? Why is he so slow, Graham? Well, because of what you just said. He's just hit the Haberdashery department. Not that I would imagine Havadashry is that interesting, but it might be. Raymond! See? Yeah, there you go. One word from you, and he does what you want.

He's coming. Raymond! Come on, boy! Yay! Well, he's moving. I might put the lead on because it speeds him up a bit. Oh, you're all right, let him get. He's happy. I suppose the point about this is this is the reason there's no such thing as Raymond racing. Greyhounds, they're a different thing.

Come on, Ray, Ray, good boy, that's yes, you can do it. Oh, now we're moving. Goodbye! Well, I'm so thrilled to be here. Without further ado, without further ado, without a little, further ado I'm going to officially introduce the podcast this is the second time this wonderful man has come on my podcast the first time was on Zoom because of pandemic related reasons so he promised me we could meet up IRL

IRL and he could finally meet Raymond I am of course with the very wonderful dog father Mr Graham Hall hello you're all right I'm really good I'm so happy we come to visit you. I won't be specific about the exact location, but we're in the beautiful Cotswolds. We're in a mysterious location in the Cotswolds, where I live. And it's stunning, Graham. It's good, isn't it? People often ask me around. If you're from Yorkshire, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're just so great, right, how come you live here? And I don't, I skip the obvious answer, which is about natural beauty in all the rest of me. I simply say, because I'm on missionary duties, spreading the Yorkshire word.

Can you call him Graham? Come on Raymond, do keep up, boy! Good Lord! In fairness to him, he's only got little legs. Is it that or is it a slight element of disobedience and stubbornness? Well, there is a bit of that. It's sort of like, I'll get there when it suits me, really. How do we hurry him up, Graham?

We carry on, that's what we do. Come on. Because the game he's played at the minute, he's like, no, I think you'll wait. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. And then we hang around and we go, come on Raymond, come on, Roman. Come on, Raymond, come on, remember. Then he goes, okay, you may proceed.

So I'm here to talk to Graham, partly so that he can judge Ray. He doesn't judge. No. But I do feel a bit like I'm about to, I'm in front of the flash dance panel and you've got your clipboard. And you're going to see what you think of Ray's behaviour. What have you observed so far? Well, talking of observation, is that him, that little dot in the distance? We are walking quite quick, you know.

And you've brought the whitest shoes in the world to the Gottswolds. It's country here, you know. We're not in London now, dear. Ah, dear, tell you. I don't come to be insulted. I come here for my dog's lonely. Where do you normally go? That's the standard answer, isn't it?

Yeah. Hello, mate. He's finally caught us up. You say pause, Graham. He looks like he's got little the boot hands on. Little what? Lebutan heels. He looks like he's got high heels on. What's a Lebutan? You'll find out. It's time. We are also Graham here. I'm here so that you can

look at Raymond and maybe tell me ways in which there's always room for improvement, let's face it. And I want to talk to you because so many people got dogs. I think over three million pets people got during the pandemic and that's right. I imagine you've been a busy old boy. Well, yeah. We went from roughly 10 million dogs before the lockdowns to about 12 million now. And most of that increase has gone from people

who've not had dogs before. So lots of people who need lots of information, really, and a bit of help. And that was the idea behind the book. It's so good, but we're going to talk lots about the book. And I'm sure, I mean, I read it, and I'm not going to lie, there was a lot of new information in there. Even though Raymond is now five.

Yes. But there you go. Yeah. But I want to talk first. I want to catch up with you really because obviously everyone will know you from your hugely successful show. Dogs behaving very badly. Notice I said that in a slight Yorkshire action and you said it in a very well. I went posh. That's funny. It's like the end of Greece. Let's do a podcast where you're talking broad Yorkshire and I'm doing posh. Where's he gone? Come on. Oh, you see, he's off like a little rocket now, Lucy, because we carried on walking and we've been walking quite quickly. And he's now gone, oh my God, I've got left behind, I need to hurry. Look at that.

It's like a flying carpet. Well, that proves the point. He can shift when he needs to. Yeah. Is that something you come across a lot with dogs, that sort of slight, I'll do what I want? Yeah. And, you know, in general, he's a lovely little dog. You haven't got any major problems here.

He's never going to be on dogs behaving very badly, is he? But sometimes that kind of I'll do what I want, I call the shots does lead to problems. You know, sometimes it leads to a bit of aggression maybe or all sorts of things, you know. Well, the main issues I have with Ray, Graham, and these are actually subjects, which I think you cover really well on your show and also in perfectly imperfect puppy and your previous book, which I also loved. Thank you. All dogs great and small. Oh, yes. So my two issues with Ray are, as you can see, a little bit dawdling on the walks.

Yes. Not fabulous. It gets distracted. Yeah. So a bit slow, gets distracted, but other dogs, he's not great. Oh really? Well, I tell you what, he's a bit trust no one. He's fine with very big dogs because they largely ignore him. and he's fine with very small dogs.

What he hates are those medium-sized dogs. Oh, that's interesting. Because they want to play with him and he's frightened that... So first things first, a bit slow, gets distracted. Be like me, really. Secondly, a bit scared of dogs. Not so much like me. would make my job really tricky that wouldn't it?

I'd love to help you, but I'm terrified to your dog. So little dogs are okay. That's interesting because sometimes dogs are a bit funny with little dogs. Terriers, they're a bit feisty maybe, you know, big dogs are a bit imposing. I reckon the medium-sized dogs are probably the most active ones then. Probably board a collies. That kind of dog, you know? On the go, on the go, on the go.

So I think what's happening there is that he just doesn't like being bothered like that It just puts him out of sorts, you know. So how do you fix it? Well, get him used to it in stages really. Yeah. Yeah, I'd be taking him to a place. Well, you can perhaps see a dog like that in the distance

running around. Keep round with you. You'll probably stay with you anyway, actually, I think, because he won't want to be running over there, will he? Your demean is really important at that stage. Because if you're beginning to look anxious, he will too. You see, this is what Graham does, is that he's a little bit sneaky because you go to him about your dog, and what you actually end up getting is a bit of therapy for yourself.

Well, it's true, isn't it? It's all about that interaction between, you know, in this case, a dog and you. So you can't just look at one side and go, well, it's all Raymond's fault. Raymond's the problem. All the other dogs are problem. You go, okay, well, yes, there's an element of that. also okay so what are you doing what do you look like perfectly natural to get anxious if you know he's going to react you know a lot of the time not always but

I'm starting to think a lot of the issues that owner see and dogs are issues it's a bit like your parents when you say oh that thing really wound me up about my dad yeah if you are really honest with yourself and examine yourself it's probably because you see it in yourself yeah that's true and I think we often there is that thing isn't it you get like your dog or your dog gets like you and we're up and choose a dog that's a bit like us so give you a good example so I know somebody who's got Paterdale Terrier and the Paterdale Terry winds her up and she winds the Paterdale Terrier up and the sound

when you listen to it is very similar so it'll start off with with with the lady telling off the dog and it all sounds the same in the end so it ends up like this it's like oh wait will you pack it in I've told you before I don't know You've just turned into your dog, haven't it? So that's often the way, you know? So if you get an anxious dog, it's not always going to be because you're anxious, but it's certainly not going to help if you don't look the part.

So the ways I think of it is, if he's beginning to get a bit anxious, a bit nervous about a situation, he looks at you because they read our body language and our faces, yeah? If he's looking at you thinking, yeah, she's anxious too, there's no way that's going to reassure him. Graham, I've never really seen him like this with anyone before.

It's kind of like his soul can sing openly with you. Oh, that's a nice thing to say. I think, you know, sometimes what happens is when you're a little cute dog, you get one or two things. You either get people who don't get dogs and never say hello to you, understandable, or you get people who do the opposite. Hello, hello, ooh, do, do, do. And hands are in, they're fluffing him off,

and he's like, actually, we've hardly met. and take me out of dinner. So, but what I did with him was like, oh no, mate, you're right. A bit normal, you know, didn't pick him up straight away, let him come to me, you know. And when I did pick him up, I'm not just sticking my face in his. I'm sideways on letting him have a little sniff at the side of my face. And he's like, oh, yeah, this is okay.

I quite like him. I'll have a bit more. But you say that, Gwen, but I do think you've got a natural gift. And do you think some people, do you think that dogs definitely, relate better to some people than others and why is that? I think they do and I you see I didn't grow up with dogs which is kind of interesting I guess and then live with one or two dogs with with girlfriends and got used to and thought maybe there's something going on here but I remember

taking the lead of a friend's dog once so let me have a little go with this dog and it was a Labrador that was pulling and pretty quickly even I didn't know what I was doing then just seemed to work so I don't think it's magic but I do think that some of us maybe just have that natural sort of neck you know staying calm is pretty good you know calm but firm all those old cliches you know calm and assertive and all that stuff it does actually work well I want to remind people just to bring them up to speed if anyone didn't listen to Graham part one please do and also you came to relatively late in life you're calling yeah because you started off you worked for

for Wheatabix, which is fabulous for a long time. And then you got two Rotties, didn't you? Axel and Gordon. That's it. And then you decided, I'm quite good at this dog training thing. I might give it a go. That's essentially it, isn't it? Yeah, it's like, you know, I seem to have something here.

Somebody said to me actually, why don't you, why don't you be a dog training? Because I was planning on doing something else, being a management consultant, actually. Very different thing. And I thought, well, I'll give it a go, you know. And I think one of the differences is that that focus on what the owners are doing as well, you know, that we've touched on before. You can't just look at a dog in isolation and go, the problem's all about the dog. So, okay. Often what I hear is things like he's okay with my husband, not so much with me, or vice versa, of course.

He's thinking, okay, well, there's going to be something here then, isn't it? One of you doing something wrong. Yeah. And then if you look at that, you can often identify it. It's like, oh, it's your tone of voice. or it's the way you flap your arms around, you know? Or maybe it's the way you're stroking him and revving him up. You know, it's all that kind of thing.

Maybe it's a body language thing. You know, are you smiling when you're pleased with him? Because they don't know otherwise, do they? Some of us have a concentration face that looks like a grimace. That doesn't help. Hello, mate. It's nice, isn't it? Hello?

Ooh, he's done a little shake-off. Now, he's got a bit of water on his fur, because it's not the driest here, but I don't think that was drying himself off. Shake-off is something that happens when they calm down. In human terms, a shake-offs like a kind of, whew. So he got himself quite distance from us there, looked up, realized that he's like, oh, blimey, I'm going to get lost, ran to us. When he came here, he did a shake-off.

So a shake-off is a dog's way of kind of going, few, okay, nice, okay, I'm safe, I'm all right, I'm okay. So there are times when I'm maybe working with the dog or do something. They do a shake-off and I think, oh, right. Well, if you've just gone few, you must have been quite tense for the last couple of minutes. Yes, it's like a reboot, isn't it? It's an emotional reboot. And we're okay, yeah. So yes, so it's, they can't speak to us, you know.

I'm pretty good at picking it when a dog's tense, but even I miss it. But sometimes the shake-off tells me that they had been tense and now they've taken a breather, you know. I think partly his reason for walking behind, is sort of nerves in a way that he sort of thinks, if I'm lost through the door, I won't get punched first. Well, yeah, there's a bit of that. I mean, you see, an old-fashioned way saying this would be, well, we're in front, we're leading, he's following, he's behind us,

that's the natural order of things. The truth is, even if you go a long way back to wolves, which is probably 15,000 years ago in his ancestry, they don't always lead from the front. So all of that stuff's a bit old-fashioned. fashion but if you're a bit of a nervy dog and you keep the people in front of you you can see them all the time going once you're out the front you've lost sight you get nervous where they got where they go so he was staying

behind until just now we've been walking for what 20 25 minutes I should think and he's like no no it's okay then they're not gonna they're not gonna abandon me else I'll hang out the front for a bit hello who's a good lad so tell me Your life has been something of a whirlwind, I would imagine, in the last year, because things were sort of taking off for you quite a lot when we last spoke. So when we first had lockdowns in 2020, we were all due to be produced in the next series of dogs we hear very badly. That got cancelled, of course, like lots of other things. So like everybody else, I suppose, I'm employing, was, where am I going to get paid next?

Because, you know, self-employed like anyone. But it very quickly turned into this thing where people getting new puppies. Lots of people needed a bit of advice. People were sat watching the telly, of course. So the reruns of dogs behaving badly became quite popular, I guess. So, yeah, things have really taken off. We've had a couple of million people watching dogs behaving very badly live, which is amazing, really.

A couple of books. Dogfather Live is the tour that you're doing now. I'm going to struggle with puffing it. I think this is really stupid. Let me get my breath, though. When the lockdowns first started, I came walking all these footpaths and bridalways and really, I'd only just moved here. And I realised that there's not much flat in the cost walls. You're either going down a hill or you're going up a hill and there ain't much in between.

So, yeah, Dogfather Live and you can find it on, it's Graham Hall, live.com, right? What's it about? Well, first half, we're going to talk about dog behaviour, loads of stories from the show. Got some loads of clips of the show that I'll talk us through. And really explain how I do what I do. So if you've ever wondered, how does that guy do it?

Come to the show and I'll tell you. But the second part is even better. Because I don't know what's going to happen in the second part. It's a live Q&A. So come to the show, ask you questions, and I'll do my best to answer them. So I'm really walking onto the stage in the second half not knowing what might be happening in the next hour.

But that's great, because I'm really happy for people to just ask me any question, you know? Yeah, you're quite a natural extrovert, Graham, aren't you? Would you say that's true? I think that's probably true. I think I always have been, you know? I think you're one way or the other, aren't you, generally? So, yeah, well, I quite like bouncing off people.

I'm, you know, to use a very old cliche, I'm a people person. And so I've ended up in a job that's what kind of ideal really. I've always said that I'm not aiming what I do at dog trainers and people are really, really into dogs, people who goes across and that. No problem with that. But really the people who come to me are just ordinary people who have dogs. I learnt a very important thing from reading your book.

Apparently, you say, enough is a word we don't. use enough with our dogs it turns out yeah you're right I think there's no right and wrong but there are there are certainly words and and ways of delivering and that aren't helpful right so often when you let's see your dogs barking too much the temptation is oh no stop pack it in da da da da da da da da and the sound of that's going up isn't it you know oh no pack it ain't you know all of that all that does is fuel the fire and for the longest time I used to say to people it doesn't really matter what the word is it's all about the sound but then I twigged one day I was

working with a client and he actually said what if I change it to enough and I thought that'll work not because of the word because of the sound yeah it's not unimpossible to say enough with an upwards inflection right you would never go enough sounds crazy isn't it but you're gonna deliver it in that enough to do I mean it not negotiable so it's a great word Raymond no don't do it now he's been a good boy stick around and the other thing. Graham also said it's a really good idea to give your dog a two-syllable name because dogs can't speak a tonal language don't they? They do so um I mean if you really want to give your

dog a one-syllable name just make sure it doesn't sound like something that you might be using as a command so for example if you've got a dog called kneel you might want to not say heel for your walking command yeah see I would because I quite like those ironic nails I mean, says the woman whose dog is called Raymond? Well, there you are. Two syllables, man. So the reason for two syllables is it's very distinct, is it's very clear if you're in the park. So my two Rossies famously were Axel and Gordon.

You know, Axel's a bit stronger, isn't it? It doesn't sound like anything else. It rings out, Axel, it's like, do-do, oh, that's me. Yeah. So it's a little tweak, but if you're thinking about an aim for a dog, yeah, just think about that. I think when you're going to puppy, There's a lot to think about.

I chatted to a fella yesterday. I was in London and somebody recognised me on the tube. Can you imagine this? Somebody on the tube spoke to me. Now, that never happens, right? Turns out he wasn't from London either. But he recognised. He said, oh, I'm going to get a Rockviler puppy.

Oh, good for you. I love Rockweiler. I said, you know, I had him in his past. Have you got an aim for him? And he said, Hector. Right? Oh, that's quite good. Hector, like that.

Hector's house, great, big lummocks of a dog. And he said, Hector the protector. I'm like oh hang on careful what you wish for yeah I said I think Hector's good if you're thinking Hector's house if you're old enough or you know all that kind of thing but but Hector the just don't put that on your dog too much it's a it's a bit like the old what you put out to the universe thing good boy come on how are you finding you talked about seeing that guy on the tube and I'm interested obviously I imagine there's been a lot more focus on you you probably get recognized more and how are you

finding that oh it's okay you know people generally speaking people are lovely and I'm always happy to chat if I've got a moment but there are funny ones I was coming out of a service station last week and a lady spotted me and I've never had a reaction quite like this she shouted very loudly Graham Hall small pause I have a schnauzer and I just wish I was quick enough to come up with the answers because the options are a don't tell everyone they'll all want one B you think you're special I once met a lady with three schnauzers and I can't remember what the third one is but they'd have done I couldn't think of any of those at the moment so yeah so I live in this

world where where funny things happen or well if you've got the right sense of here but funny things happen you know he's off in front now where them all I have a Shih Tzu Yeah, little shih Tzu. Raymond, come here, your little shih Tzu. I am. There's the trailer. So, yeah, but it's interesting, isn't it?

Because even though it's lovely and it's nice to be recognised for what you do, and sometimes there are moments when it's difficult because people don't know what's going on in your life. So you might be thinking, oh, I'm feeling a bit down today. or I've had some sad news about a friend or whatever. Yeah. But your persona is capable, smile. Yeah, you've really got a... It's not that you put on an axe,

but you switch into a different mode. And, you know, I think that's not unique to people like me. Or let's say celebrities in general. I struggle calling myself that. But, you know, if you're a police officer in uniform on the street, people expect a certain kind of thing from you, don't they? They expect you to be down.

it's not allowed you know so I think there are times when clearly that could be a problem but you do sometimes have to step up a bit you know um but you know dogs and dog people always lift me um because you end up talking about the dogs dogs do funny things just do you know you don't have to be a stand-up comedian to pull any comedy at what happens with dogs you know you see it on the show all the time they um people say things like the lady was dressing up a little dog used to go to the pageants and she spent a lot of money on dresses and that

you know and this was up in Doncaster and she said it's it's not as though I dress him up every day right I just said no because that'd be weird and you can have a bit of a chuckle you know so there are days aren't there when you think oh really I you know I've got this private one-to-one

book let's say which these days I get very little time to do I really could have done without this but you get there you knock on the door you do the profession hi hi nice to me and how or later you've forgotten that you were miserable on the way there you know because dogs just do that to you and you still you don't have a dog living with you at the moment no that's right um because you're basically going around sorting out everyone else's dogs you're like mary poppins in that respect yes that's really kind of right yeah a bit like a nanny You're right. The irony of it is that for a long time, you know, singles, so, living in a place, funny enough, living in a place where I can't have dogs, but it really

didn't matter because I couldn't have a dog of my own because I'm spending the whole week on the road doing lots of different things, you know. So, yeah, very ironic. But, you know, I was visiting my old dog with my ex, that's fine. I met somebody else now. So, and she's dog person? Dog person, got three of them. I feel so relieved. I don't think it would work otherwise, is it? But yeah, and there are three dogs. So all old ones.

So it's quite interesting from my point of view. A deaf dog, right? Old boy who's a boxer who's 11 years old and he's deaf. Every now and again, he forgets that he's 11 years old and he just turns into a boxer puppy, which is boxes all over, isn't it? But that's quite an interesting challenge. Can I say she, she's basically got the trainer living in. Yeah.

Ah, but there's a downside. Which is when we go out and about with the three dogs, they've got to be well-behaved. It's so true. So I'm forever. You know when you get a couple and one's teaching the other how to drive? And it's like, you can't tell me well, we're going to have to go get a driving instructor. We're almost at that point. I'm like, hey, slack lead.

Come on. J-shape leave. Like, don't sense up. But you see, I felt that when I brought Ray today. I thought, oh God, I hope Ray behaves himself. Oh, he's great. hasn't let me down he's lovely he doesn't the other thing Graham is he doesn't bark what what is that a bit weird it's a breed thing really I mean

obviously the shit who's out there that do buy but funny of just this morning I was looking at I was looking at our boxer and I was thinking you don't back very much at all very rare you know he's bouncy and all that but he doesn't bar the boxes normally bark a lot not so much the mastiff generally don't when they do it's quite a deep bark you know about it yeah but the little Patadale Terrible Yeah, well now. She'll back for almost no reason, you know. So it depends from breed to breed really.

So I think the fact he's quite, you know, thank you blessings really. The only thing he does is sometimes he lets out a strange sort of tubaka growl. If I'm on the sofa and he wants to get up, that's quite common. It's like a territorial... Didn't we talk about this last time? Yeah, we did. And I said, what do you do? And you said, I'll pick him up and I put him on the sofa.

him up and I put him on the sofa and here we are you down the line you're still doing it aren't you I might be so Graham what is the thing you find most with the most common problem that people get because I know jumping up is a big thing with puppies isn't it yeah it is do you know in in terms of a big issue one of the biggest things that happens with puppies is they get to teenage age and people don't expect it. So five months in thereabouts, five, six months old, you had this puppy that was really obedient, you did all the early train, everything's going really well and suddenly like a human teenager they do the dog equivalent of like, me, yeah, they don't

want to comply, you know, it takes 13 times to call them back and all like those things. And often at that point people start to panic, you know, it's like maybe we can't give this dog what they need we've got this all wrong and sadly that's a time when lots of dogs get rehomed so a big part of the book was was to talk through that teenage stage you know what you can do about that essentially stick to your guns keep doing the right things keep praising the right behaviors and unlike teenagers they come out of it you know it's a Nirvana years isn't it is yeah so keep on keep on you know you'll be fine but if you if you give up at that point you'll never

know will you When I see you with dog owners saying, well, maybe it's because you do that, and they tense up and get a bit defensive and say, no, no, no, no, no. I think, right, you do do that. You're on the right thing, no, you're right. It is an interesting thing in life, isn't it? It's the thing that riles you the most is probably the thing you're doing, isn't it? So I've caught myself at times going to, God, it's very rare for me to just dislike somebody.

But you know, every now and again you make something you think, well, I don't like you. And I caught myself the other day thinking, I don't like him because he's very rare. really judgmental and I'm like that's me being judgmental so I think you just need that self-awareness you know when I ask why I don't like someone it is normally because it's stuff I struggle with in myself like I'll say it just comes in and noisy and takes over you're a bit like me then yeah yeah well like do you know I think we all are I think that's the truth you know there's the there's the thing about opposites attract isn't there

And so the opposite of that, if you'll excuse the repetition, is that sometimes when you're two alike, you just bounce off each other in a bad way, you know? So do you think with dogs, it's interesting, because Raymond, I would say, is, well, tell me what you're, what you make of Raymond personality wise so far. He's a pretty chilled out guy, actually, is what I'm seeing. He's like, hello, you're all right.

I'll take you as I find you, he's fine. I'll have a little plod, you know. He's a wee bit on the nervy side. But to be honest, he's not. never been here before he's never met me so that's kind of normal he's a lovely little lad ain't he so but he's not I wouldn't say he's a boisterous extrovert would you know I wouldn't have said that no he's a he's a quiet plodder and yeah a lot of people would describe me as relatively noisy

you're quite a bubbly sort of person so that's not him but you know that can work really well so one of the things I cover off in perfectly imperfect puppies that when you're looking for a dog think first about Well, think about money, right? Boring, but it just costs a bit of money. But when you drill down a bit further, and think about the character of the dog that you want, and it's not always going to be that you have to have a dog that's just like you.

Sometimes you do want a bit of that difference, you know. So if you're a person who's likely to be a bit anxious or nervous, actually a calm, steady plodder of a dog's not a bad idea. For example, the opposite might be like a working breed border collie. born on a farm, he's like, go, go, go, go, go, go all the time. Well, there's a fine line to some extent, yeah, that's not going to be a good match with somebody who's very sedentary. But actually, if you're both a bit neurotic,

that's not going to be good either. So it's just finding that balance, you know. It's very much like human relationships. If you're both exactly the same, there's no sort of dovetail effect, you know? So again, it comes back to that title perfectly imperfect. You'll end up with a puppy who's imperfect because they're never perfect. It never works out of anything, but perfectly imperfect for you. Oh, this will be interesting, Graham.

Yeah, what we've got a dog coming? We've got a dog and you're all going to see. I can keep him off lead, can't I? I think he's all right, didn't he? But isn't it interesting already? I'm building it into a big thing. That's right. So you see, what I do, I go, I clocked then before you did and I said nothing.

I kept talking, right? So I'm like, hey, up there's two people there. I don't know. Maybe they haven't got a dog, actually. Here's the thing you see I've seen him coming from a distance I've got there's two people there interesting information

we might have to take some action if we get nearer and he starts to kick off but you've gone oh my god oh my god there's people and you've even imagined a dog that doesn't exist you're getting anxious

about imaginary dog heavily meanwhile if you look at Raymond he's like hello mate blood blood blood blood blood blood blood blood he's fine tell you as I said once on the telly Hello. As I said, once on the telly,

I might not have a problem with your dog, but I might have a problem with you. I tell you what we do a lot. We go, this is going to be awful. And then it is, and then we pat ourselves on the back, because we were right, it was awful, and it'll be awful next time and the time after that. Do you know what I mean?

And it's like, okay, this might be a problem. In fact, you know, the honest truth is, it might be awful, but let's not go in with that frame of mind. You know what I mean? So it's always like, okay, what can I do? Right, so can I do anything to make life easier for myself? Can we give a, in the case of we've got a dog coming towards us, let's say, can we give ourselves more distance?

So where we are now, we're on like a tarmac sort of single lane road, aren't we? But there are big wide verges either side. So could we walk over on the verge? Will he react a bit less? If he doesn't react, can we reward him? Absolutely. Will we get more of it?

Will that take the pressure off you? Yep. we'll that give you a chance to act a bit more confidently. Would that reassure him in future? Yes, mum's got it. He doesn't have to react. See what I mean? So you look at it and you think, okay, this might be a problem.

What can I do to mitigate that? Okay, and can we get through this? Now when you get to the end, you were in a situation where instead of saying, I knew it'd be awful and it was, he said, well, that was a bit of a challenge. But, hey, we did okay there. So one of the things, Graham, with pandemic puppies, is people obviously nervous about leaving dogs alone. It's an interesting thing.

I mean, it's a real thing, separation anxiety, so, you know, I wouldn't want to say otherwise, but it did get big up in the media. You know, as soon as people were starting to go back to the office, everybody lashed onto it, oh, we're going to have a massive problem with separation anxiety. And it's almost a case of the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. Because what then happened was people,

went, oh, today's the day, I'm going to be awful. So they'll be there at the front door. The dog's like, well, this is unusual. And they're like, it's okay, darling, everything's okay. I'll be back late. It's okay. You know, and the dog's thinking, well, I'm a slightly perturred, but you look terrified. Right?

So there's clearly something going wrong here. And then, of course, you know, it's bound to make them anxious. So there are things that you can do in terms of building it open. I mean, if you've got the time, just pop out for a minute or two, literally, more than that back in again and when you come back try and just be a bit normal I go I come back it's all parts of normal life it's fine yeah that's the message and it's the body language really that conveys that hi mate I'm back right I'll sit the catalogue see in a minute you know come on Raymond right

so instead of now here's the thing so he doesn't want to come back I think he's fed up now but we've decided we're gonna turn this way so he's like does a standoff now yeah he stood there where stood here So one of us is going to give in. Now I really don't want him to go his direction because there's a busy road over there, right? So the tendency is to run towards him. Let's not do that. Let's call him so you can see us and we walk the opposite way. So I try? Yeah. Call it and then just go. This is worse than the flash dance panel. I'm so strict. Raymond! Raymond! Now go. Come on. Don't mess about. So you've, it's like fair warning. You're looking at us. We're off this way. Don't look back.

You can't help yourself, can't you? Is he coming? Is he coming? Is he coming? Slowly but surely. He's now twice the distance he was, because he's like, no, no, no, they'll give up, they'll give up. Don't slow down, don't slow down, right? Because he's now gone, oh my God, they're not going to stop.

This is just ridiculous, but she always stops. I always get my own way, see what I mean? So we're going, no, no, we're going this way. You see it? Here he comes. And now. Oh my God, it worked. Raymond, come on.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Now I've just injected a bit of that in to speed him up, right? So you see what would ordinarily have happened, understandably, is he would have gone, no, no, I don't want to go, you'd have gone to him, he gets his own way again. So your walk becomes a series of pauses where the dog goes, now you can stop right now. So I really want to come and see you on tour, Graham,

because I'm very excited about this. And it's, what made you want to do it? Well, it's a natural extension of the other things I've done, I suppose. I've always sort of had been speaking to little groups of people, you know, way before I was on the telly, I'd run a seminar, maybe 20 people, a bit of a difference between that and the theatre, you might say. But the principle's the same, really. You're helping a number of people at the same time.

And I just thought we could have some fun in a theatre. There's, you know, the way I do things is, I always think if you watch the telly or you come to the theatre and you walk away thinking, well, that was a bit of fun, I quite enjoyed that, but I learnt something too, great and that really is what the theatre is all about I think it'd be quite an entertaining show but I guarantee you'll walk away thinking I never knew that come come. Okay Graham we're going to do a loyalty test now who's he going to come

to? Oh that'll be interesting yeah go on then you stand that side I'll stand this side Raymond! Come on Ray! Come on Ray! Yeah good boy he nearly went to the producer that's funny yeah good boy come on hey oh oh good boy hello Hello! Hey! Who's the daddy? Ha ha ha ha! He ran to me! There you go, and he's done a shake off now because he's got back. Good boy! You go to your mum there? I've never encountered such disloyalty in my life!

He's just walked away from you again! Oh that's funny! Do you know what happened there? If you analyse that moment, right? So he's coming to me, he's gone halfway and he's looking at you, right? You're scowling at him going, I've never encouraged his disloyalty mother. He's gone, oh blime it. I don't know what's up with her, but she has come to me. happy I'll go back to this for you he's smiling. Lovely walk this isn't it? A better class of walking the Cotswolds, yeah.

It's only spoilt by that railway that goes across there but we do get a better class of train to Paddington here than anywhere else. Here's the thing and this is what I think probably separates you, and I won't name any names, but a lot of the sort of the traditional dog behaviourists is that you're funny and you've got to say that you're funny and you've got to say that of humour and I think for me I would never want to expose my dog to anybody who didn't have a sense of humour. No I think you're right. It's a funny it's you you're all right. A lot of traditional dog behaviourist and trainers have just been very lacking in humour over the years. Well let's think about somebody who's long gone Barbara Woodhouse. You don't think about Barbara Woodhouse and think oh how I laughed oh my signs. Now she was terrifying frankly

a vision in tweed. It's the other thing we've got in common really. But dogs are funny and dog people get it. You know, how often do dog people meet in a park and just laugh about something naughty that their dog did? It's just funny. So it seems to me it always has that there's a bit of disconnects, you know. Not all dog trainers are humanists, of course not. But we have got this reputation of being a bit serious and a bit, you know, a bit imposing if you like. But dog people aren't like that, you know.

So I think maybe I've struck a chord with that, you know, he's not always a dog trainer, but he's got a sense of here's a question Graham yeah why do we love dogs so much because maybe because they don't speak actually most of the times you've fallen out with somebody because of something they said and now I think what it is with dogs is we love that connection with this other creature and they don't speak our language and we don't speak theirs but there is that unspoken there's a bond isn't that we always talk about that and I think that's really enriching you know and I think that's it you know in a nutshell they look at us

they're cute they furry they make funny noises and we love to think that we know exactly what they're saying yeah and that's great so it's like having a baby but without the 20 odd years of putting them up really and feeding them yeah but at least babies eventually get to the stage where you don't have to pick up their poo well yeah that's true you just got to pick up the rest of the mess and the lives they make says the guy who's not got any of his own but but yeah so no no I mean you know if you really must have a baby go ahead and all that but oh no a dog's a lot easier

well I've loved our walk in the Cotswls with you Graham and I want to know honestly Just a quick appraisal of Ray, room for improvement, areas we can better. Well, in a nutshell, as we would say in Yorkshire, he's alright. And the secret there is in the intonation. What you need to understand is that in Yorkshire there's alright, which means not very good, very good, excellent, and above that there's alright. Is that praise? Hey, there's a level above it which he didn't quite attain, which is a bit of alright.

That's special. Oh Raymond you're not a bit of alright. You're all right though, aren't you? Hey? There you go. He likes being called all right, don't you? Do you think he's reasonably well behaved? He's very well behaved.

No, it is. See, you're doing that dog mum thing now, aren't you? Please tell me my dog's well, please tell me you like him. Do you know, when people meet me often for the first time, they say, we've got this little problem with our dog, right? And you go, okay, what is it? Well, now listen, he's really good on the lead. on the lead. He's brilliant. He comes back when you call him. He's not aggressive. He's great

with kids. He's all right in the car because I've seen your program. Darnie, daddy. It's like, for goodness sake, tell me what the problem is. And it's because we don't want people to think badly of our dogs, you know. He's very sensitive, it's Tyson. We want to admit our dogs are badly behaved. Well, it's because we love him. We want everybody else to love them, don't we in a nutshell? Go on, off you go. Go on. No, no, not me. Go on. No, no, not me. Go on. Keep going. Keep going. A, see, he does love you. So the most exciting thing that's ever happened is about to happen.

I'm only going to get into Graham's white range rover. No, Land Rover. I'm not that posh. With the number plate dog. Good, isn't it? Yeah, it's good, but does it mean that people flag you over on the motorway and say, I've got a bit of a boisterous lab in the back? Yeah, it really does. And it's a bit of a problem, I'll be honest. I can't go anywhere and notice. I literally could have a bright red Ferrari and I would be less obvious than I am in that car.

Come on, Ray, get a grip. Well, Graham, Raymond and I have absolutely loved our walk with you. I've learnt so much about him, about dogs and it's always a pleasure. you're such an incredibly charming, lovely chat. Oh, well, thank you very much. It's been my pleasure. Lovely to meet you finally, Raymond. You're lovely, aren't you?

Oh, look after yourself. Good lad. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.