Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Isy Suttie

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

This week Emily and Ray went for a stroll with Isy Suttie in Crystal Palace Park. They chatted about Isy’s childhood in Matlock, when she fell in love with her partner, Elis James and her latest novel, Jane Is Trying. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I used to sort of be really scared of meeting kids if that makes any sense. I remember asking like a three-year-old, do you know how steam engines work? Because I was trying to think, I was like, what do three-year-olds want to talk about? And I sort of feel the same about dogs. This week on Walking the Dog, I went for a stroll with the fabulously talented comedian, actor and writer Izzy City. Now, Izzy doesn't have a dog herself. In fact, she's actually not a big fan of dogs. So I was determined to see if my dog Raymond could win her over.

Come on, everybody loves Raymond. Izzy took us to London's Crystal Palace Park, where we had the loveliest chat about her childhood in Matlock, how she knew she wanted to perform from a really early age, and why she just adores doing stand-up. We also chatted about her acting roles and everything from Peep Show to Man Down, and she told me the sweetest story about falling in love with her partner,

the stand-up and radio broadcaster Ellis James. Izzy's also a brilliant writer. I just read her latest novel, Jane is Trying, which I totally loved. It's a really funny, beautifully written story about relationships, families, and just struggling to navigate life, really. So do order a copy now because you won't put it down. I had the best time with Izzy. She's got this incredibly kind and just good-natured energy, but she's also hilarious. And best of all, she ended up falling kind of in love with Raymond.

I really hope you enjoy our chat. Remember to rate review and subscribe. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the woman herself. Here's Izzy and Raymond. Mind if I get a bottle of water. Come on. I'm just going to get one. Let's go.

What do you think so far? Well, actually, I don't feel like he's a dog. I hope that doesn't sound... He's like a new creature. Like half dog, half upholstery. He's like. He's very cat-like as well, isn't he? Yeah, he is, yeah.

But he's not, I sometimes find cats can be a bit arched, and I don't feel like he's like that. I know it's early days, but... You say that, he's arching his back, and we know what that means. He's doing a poo. What a lovely little ray poo. I'm really proud of his poos, actually, like you? I'm sure, I would be.

Let's go in this cafe, Zee. Should we get some... I'll get you some water. That's my phone. They're being got rid of instantly. Who are they? I'm just in the middle of recording a podcast in the Crystal Palace. Can I call you back, please?

Sorry, this is Jonathan Raw, saying the world doesn't need any more podcasts. Say hello from me. When will you people stop? Okay, is that enough? Okay, have you got all that? Thank you. I'll call you later. Hi.

Let's grab a water. Yes, mask. Oh, Izzy, let me get it. Yeah, I'm glad you like him, is he? Oh, I do. I mean, okay, I'm going to redo my definition of him. A quarter dog, a quarter upholstery, and I mean like a valance, you know, that goes around the bed. A quarter baby, human baby.

And a quarter cat. Love that description of him. So you're quite scared of dogs, aren't you? Yeah. I was trying to think about, I was listening to John Bradley's brilliant episode, and he's scared of dogs, isn't he? And I thought he responded very well to Ray. And when I was listening to it, I was thinking,

what is it that's made me scared of dogs? Because he had an incident with his grandma, where there was a big dog, wasn't there blocking their way? And I thought, did I have something like that? And it's possible that I did, and I can't remember it. I think I feel a bit weird about the slob of things. You know when people kiss their dogs and stuff? Yes, I know.

But Ray doesn't really do slobber. No, I can see that. Hello. Where should we go, Izzy? I think we should go round this spix. It's quite a nice pool. I sometimes run around. Let's go here.

Come on, Ray. Give us you a smile. Oh, he loves you. Oh, he loves you. Well, you know, I've raised him to be very codependent. That's the way anything should be raised. Children, dogs, everything. You've got to get something back.

I'm going to introduce you formally. I'm really excited. I love this woman. And I'm so thrilled she agreed to do this. I'm with the very fabulous comic, actor, writer, musician, all-round superhuman. Izzy Suttie? Or Izzy Suttie?

Now, I say it in a sort of Matlock Act. I like the accent. I like the way... But I know it's spelled sattie, but I like to put an accent on it. I know, I like that. I think it's a schwa. That's what the er-s sound is in phonetics. It's called shua. I think it's sutty.

The problem with growing up in Matlock and it being sotty, which everyone said, is I got a lot of sotty and sweet jokes, especially as they say Izzy, Wizzy, let's get busy on the Sotty show. So it was like a double whammy. You're, um, I-S-Y, aren't you? This is a thing which I like that you're ISY. Well, thanks. To me, it was really logical because my name's Isabel.

I just took off the O'Bell and put on a Y. There was a short period where I wanted to be called IJ, because my middle name's Jane. I think I've read a lot of American books like Sweet Valley Highland. I want to be called IJ. It sounds like an international visa form. It doesn't work, is it? So you went through, Izzy.

I like Izzy. Yeah. And there was a period as well with it spelled I double Z-I, and then I decided that was ridiculous. And then, so for me, it's logical the spelling of it, because I haven't added a letter to my name that isn't there unless it's completely necessary, are you the Y?

But I do get called ISSI a lot, like ISSI-Miyaki. Well, let's, do you want to set the scene for us? We've come, I've come to see you in Crystal Palace. Yeah, we're in Crystal Palace Park, which is massive. and we're walking along a it's like a dust track isn't it it's white a white stone track around it it feels like there should be a pond to our left but there isn't just an expanse of grass and we can see crystal palace transmitter oh i j i spotted that did you did you e are yeah imagine i just always call you that now i love it if only you called me i jay

So we're in Crystal Palace and taught me through, this is your manor, isn't it? This is my manner, yeah. This is, like a lot of people know this part. When you say you live in Crystal Palace, they're like, oh yeah, Crystal Palace, the dinosaurs. Because there are these stone dinosaurs that are quite famous, which we could probably walk past if you want. And the really annoying thing about the dinosaurs is you can't really go near them. They're across water. It's for the best, though.

Yeah, probably. This park, Ije, really appeals to him. Well, the thing is he are. He is leaping, isn't he, with joy? Yeah. Which is what my rabbit used to do. And there's actually a name for it when rabbits do it. I can't remember the name of it, but it's called calypsing or something like that

when all their feet leave the ground at the same time. And it means they're so full of joy. My rabbit clover used to do it, which is the only real pet I've ever had, Clover. Well, I want to talk about your childhood pets, because we should establish you and your fiancé. Yeah. You and your fiancé, your forever fiancé, Ellis. Yeah.

You don't have any pets, do you? We don't have any pets. We live in a split-level mazenet, and I know it's called that because we're going to be putting it on the market soon. I used to call it a flat. May I suggest duplex? Can I say parquet flooring? Can I say it's got parquet flooring, but just covered with dirty carpet, and they'll never find out until we leave. There's no parquet flooring.

So that's no reason, I guess, not to have like a goldfish or something, but we are going to move or we are going to get a garden. And then we've promised my daughter that we'll get a rabbit or a cat. So we went through your pets. Did you have, you mentioned rabbits? So I had clover. That was my rabbit. And I remember that we got her from a family friend.

And I was probably about 10. And this is quite disgusting, but I'm going to tell you the full story. I don't care anymore. Now I'm IJ, I just don't care about people knowing this is true. So basically, my dad, bless him, Bill converted a chest of drawers into a rabbit hutch. So he took off the doors. It wasn't just a chest of drawers. It was a kind of Welsh dresser with drawers in the top and then cupboards at the bottom.

He took off the cupboard fronts and put wire across. So it was a hutch essentially with drawers at the top. and storage above the drawers so we could put all her hay and her food and stuff in the storage bit and then she lived in the hutch and it was my duty to clean the hutch out which I didn't ever do so I was a real fair weather owner and I used to love playing with her and I used to put her on my chest and zip up my cardigan so that just her head was poking out I bet Ray would like this and I'd lie on the sofa on my back and she'd just go to sleep and it was so lovely and I still remember that sensation of like stroking her fur between her eyes and down her ears and she used to fall asleep and her head just fitted perfectly in my palm and it was so lovely but I did not want to do any of the boring stuff so I never cleaned out the hutch and I never fed her so dad used to get him from work every day

exactly the same time and he used to put his head around the door and say he was Scottish Has anybody fed that bun and no, I used to go, no. And then he used to go and feed her and she hated Dad for some reason. She used to try and bite his fingers so he would get her food out of these drawers that he'd lovingly converted. And he was so dutiful. But she didn't like him. He got nothing. And so you had the experience of pet ownership, but you didn't, you weren't a dog or a cat family.

No, I don't think we were. I think perhaps if mum had bred rabbits as a child actually in Scotland and he had a little Scotty dog who he adored when he was younger and there were loads of photos of it. It was a boy I can't maybe call Jock. He was white and I think dad probably would have liked to get a dog but I don't know. Mum is not really a dog person although my grandma, her mum did have a big a black Labrador called Judy. So when I was growing up, I did have contact with a dog, but for some reason,

I have got this innate fear of them. And I can't really pin it down to one specific incident. But I think it might be, you know that thing of like, before I had kids, I didn't know if I'd ever have kids. And then I met Ellis and thought, oh, we'll give it a go. I used to sort of be really scared of meeting kids

if that makes any sense because I used to think they would just think I was a twat and I used to sort of and used to try to make small talk with them

because I'd be like I remember asking like a three year old do you know how steam engines work because I was trying to think I was like what do the three year olds

want to talk about and I sort of feel the same about dogs I feel like what do I do I don't know and I think maybe it's just literally

not having spent any time with them and it's like anything isn't it it's like if you said would you like to try windsurfing I'd go

I haven't got the first clue about it I know what you mean there is something quite incredibly sort of upsetting actually let's go down here and I'll show you the dinosaurs yeah what about

about being rejected by a child or a dog or a dog no absolutely if you meet a kid and I've had that where they go I don't like that lady or something which happens quite a lot Or the dog.

It happens to be too much. I don't you know. I think I haven't done anything. I'm innocent. I'm an innocent woman. Do you have this thing where sometimes, so when my kids were babies, people just touch them without asking you.

And it's like, oh, okay. I don't really mind it that much, but especially sort of old lady. Oh, hello? And you know, Betty's got red hair. Like, have you dyed her hair? And I'm like, no, she's two months old. Like, why would I?

Do you, people, like that guy just stroke rate, do you have a feeling of being protected over him when people do that on invited? I do. I mean, it's, you know, I feel ridiculous comparing that to a kid, but it's a dog. No, I think it's really similar. I still think it's sometimes, because he pulls a lot of focus socially. Yeah. It's like I'm going out of Justin Bieber and I've lost him in the crowd.

It's like he's just been swallowed up into a sea of fan girls. and I've lost him. You're just another person queuing up to stroke him. That's what I'm really impressed you've come today because a mutual friend of ours, lovely Amanda, had actually warned me and said, she's not 100% enthusiasm. I mean, like she did it in such a nice way.

That said if I don't want to offend you. She can be a little nervous around dogs. And I said it's fine, I promise. Raise. But. I get it actually. I think maybe it needs to be rephrased as I don't like big dogs. But you see, I did this episode of Peep Show where my character was,

and my heart sank when I read these stage directions. It was like worse than if they said she has to be naked. It said that I had to like basically be in the park with Mark and a dog comes along and Dobby has to like, essentially like a sort of play wrestle with the dog and get as close to it as possible roll around. And you see the character of Dobby was actually quite different from me and I, that is exactly the kind of thing that Dobby would do. But I was just kind of like, oh my God. So I went to talk to the producer and I was like, and it was the first time I'd had to voice this fear of dogs because I'd been able to have,

I'd been avoiding them without really thinking about it if that makes sense. I hadn't really, I wasn't really aware that I had this fear of dogs until I read this script and was like, I just, I feel like I can't do this. It is actually a problem. So I went to the producer and I said, look, this is the situation and he was really lovely and said, look, the dog handler will bring three dogs and to sort of make things more tense,

there were some reporters there that day doing interviews with people which they never normally were. So I felt like there were like more people on set than normal and I was just like, okay, is he? Come on, for God say. And I can be quite hard on myself. I was like, Jesus Christ, you know, you're in your 30.

There is no incident to pin this on. Like there is with John Bradley, whose episode I listened to and he talks about this moment with his grandma, where there's this big dog blocking their way. And I was like,

that is completely logical that you end up with this fear of dogs because of that. I haven't got an incident like that that I can remember. And I was like, just grow up, just do it. So in the morning,

they showed me these three dogs. The first one. So they showed me this first one. I did it one by one. You know, I didn't see them all at the same time. It would make quite a good game show, actually, wouldn't it?

So they showed me the first one and I looked at it and it looked very sweet but I was just like it's too big so I said I'm sorry I just don't feel capable of doing it can you show me the next one which I thought would be smaller and they were like that's the smallest one. And if they'd done it the other way round it would have been better because I would have been like okay that's really small when it's the first one and it was such a sweet dog and they were all so lovely and supported they were like is you can definitely do this it's absolutely fine you know the dog because being on camera before, you know, he's not going to... And I did manage to kind of roll around a bit.

I couldn't kiss it. I couldn't go near it. It's bum. I was like suddenly aware of all the revolting aspects of dogs, like poo and saliva and stuff. It's really odd. And then I sort of managed to do a bit. and I don't think it was brilliant, but I did manage under the pressure of basically a crew going,

come on, you can do this. It's basically the size of a rat. But I did genuinely find it very hard and I was shaking and I felt really weird afterwards. I know. There's a real phobia there, isn't there? Yeah, I think there is. It's odd. And no one made me do anything I didn't want to do. And if I'd said, actually, I'm sorry, you're going to have to get a body double. Just shoot her from behind. They would have absolutely done that. Like they weren't going, you absolutely have to do this or you're not. But I said, no, I want to do it. Because actually, I thought that it would make me overcome my fear. You know, my sister's really scared of spiders. And she went on a court.

I think at London Zoo. So how do they work? It's with exposure. Is it therapy? Yes, it's exposure therapy, essentially, I suppose. And she said that they build up to letting a spider crawl on their hands, basically. So I think they show them the spiders, and then they probably build up to bigger ones and stuff. At the end, you're supposed to let the spider go into your hand.

Ice cream. Is he? Yeah, all right. Hang on, sure. Yeah. Does we eat ice cream? Oh, yeah. He'll have a lick.

But I don't. He's quite restrained really. Is he, what would you like? I think I'd like, oh my God. I think I'll just have a single cone. Oh, well, a waffle cone. It's 50p more, is that all right? Thank you.

I'll have a waffle cone, please. Hello, no, can I have one waffle cone for my friend? And I would like just a regular 99. Would you like any toppings on that? Strawberry chocolate? Oh, yeah, chocolate, please. She would like chocolate. Thank you. There you go.

I'm one of those people who I can't ever ignore an ice cream, man. Bye-bye. No, I know. You like that? Yeah, I'm a bit like, you know Prince Phillips' advice to everyone was apparently, if you get the chance to go to the toilet, always go to the toilet. Hmm. And I feel that way about ice cream.

buns. That's brilliant advice. I know. Do you think it's because with royal engagements, maybe they have to go for long periods without going for a way? Oh I love that advice. Mmm, too. Come on, Ray. So let's go back again. It's going well with Reg. We've got our ice creams. Beautiful sunny day here. I want to go back to IJ Jr. in Matlock. You didn't grow up in Matlock did you? Well I moved there when I was six so I sort of do consider it the place I grew up really I was born in Hull and then moved to Chesson in Hertfordshire when I was to then move to Matlock when I was six so I do really consider it in my hometown yeah yeah I sort of feel like now I got some insight into

your childhood because I read your first book we're going to talk about Jane's Trine which I've just read which a spoiler right is absolutely brilliant but the actual one was your was it was sort of like it was it was fully autobiographical I guess the elements I felt was semi-autobiographical because some names have been and situations had to change yeah I didn't really like having to do that because it was kind of about my 20s wasn't it in dating and stuff and I had this quandary constantly where I'd put stuff in about guys and then be like oh god you know I would worry I don't know if you felt like this as well that people I knew would read it

So I became frustrated actually with having to change things. And yeah, I enjoyed writing it, but I felt it. I was really loved writing a novel next because I could put in real people, but just change their gender or a few physical aspects of them and then they wouldn't recognise themselves, I hope. Although the mum in Jane is trying, which is the novel, is quite similar to my mum, and I was really nervous when she read it.

But luckily, she liked it. And she's always very honest, mum. She will just say if she thinks something isn't great that I've done, which is actually brilliant, as long as she likes the things. Oh, look at the birth, is he? I wonder what they are. Are they more hens? I went on this course once about how to identify bird calls.

Did you go through a phase in your life? Was that shortly after your sister's spider course? Like between us we're doing every single course in London on. Oh, he doesn't mind though, does he? Come on, Ray. So, yeah, so your parents, your dad was a scientist. My dad was a scientist. was a specialist in lead and lead recycling

and that was his area. So he used to be a broad lot when I was growing up in America and Romania and places. And my mum had been a nurse and then did lots of different jobs when we were little but mainly didn't work that much really. You have a sister? Yeah.

You have a sister. I have a sister who's four years younger than me. with the fear of spiders a worse fear of spiders than me and I've got a pretty bad fear of spiders and I get the sense that you didn't have one of those

I've got to get out of here you people are dragging me down experiences as a kid like you were pretty happy as a kid and had I just get the sense there was a nice family vibe you had growing up

yeah that's true I did really want to get out though I did want to get out of Matlock I hate to say because I love it and now write about it all the time and then want to move back there. But because I think as a teenager, wherever you are, you'd probably go, this is boring. But also, I just wanted to get to London and do performing. That was my, that was all that mattered.

So I felt like I wanted to get to, at the very least a city and probably London. And I actually moved out when I was 17 into my best friend's house, which was only 10. and it's down the road. And did you, as a kid, most people I speak to who've been successful in performing, there is that thing of feeling different, isn't there, and slightly other and not quite like they're part of the gang? Yes, I did feel like that really. And I went to youth theatre from a really young age, and I always just used to feel really

shy. And like, when I was at home, I would think, I can do it, I can do this audition. And then as soon as I got in a big group, I just wouldn't be able to do it. And I'd always be on the back row and stuff like that. So I just don't think I was very confident. I used to write all these songs, so that was like my escapism. And I couldn't imagine a single day going by without me playing the guitar back then. I wrote so many songs.

And I'm so glad I had that. But I felt quite angsty. And yes, I did feel like a misfit, really. I had two really good friends who I'm still friends with. but I wasn't part of like a big group. You know, when you see those girls who are kind of, they seem so sorted and they're probably not inside, are they? But I wasn't one of those.

I was on the tennis courts with all the other weirdos, with, had Doc Martins that someone had, we've got really, really stoned, and someone had got a pair of shears, garden shears, and cut the soles up from the bottom. So they'd cut the toes off. so my toaster cup but then also we cut the soles up

so they were completely uneven on the bottom so when I walked it was just like there was no level stuff like that I mean did you have I'm thinking maybe I did more to lime gauze

bit of goss stuff yeah I did and I remember going I went to a gig once I wrote a lot of songs that were like nothing is real and stuff like that Nothing is real? Yeah, nothing is real.

How did it go? Can you sing me a ball of nothing is real? Nothing is real for the world cries out and still we all are dying. Nothing is real. Something, something. Although we're trying, dying, crying. Something like, still the world is trying, the world is trying. I love that. It's got a bit of a Howard Jones, early 80s vibe to it.

But you know, Izzy, I think it's really interesting. because I basically, I wasn't quite in the pretty team because I wasn't rich enough or tall enough or cool enough or pretty enough, but I tried. And it's one of the biggest regrets of my life that I spent too long sort of with my fingertips on the windowsill ledge, being constantly reminded

of why I wasn't good enough. And actually, there were some incredible friends I had in the weirdos set. Yeah. Which is where, frankly, my natural... home was. Yeah. And I sort of, it's so interesting that you think actually looking back, I think those things

that make you feel a bit strange can be channeled often and certainly have in your case into what makes you slightly stand out. I agree. I think you have to go through that phase of hating them. I don't see any way around it. And I think it's really easy for you to have that regret. But you probably couldn't have lived it in a different way. Yeah.

Because if you'd been, instead of having your fingertips on the window, turning around to everyone in the room and going, hey, you're my guys, you would have found something else to rail against or something else to try and change. Because I think teenage years in the time that you are really tested. It's really grim. And it's easy to forget how I used to try and change my personality. I used to think, I feel like if I, I felt like I never knew how to, like,

communicate with popular girls. And my mum said to me once, just say I like your then whatever anything I like your ring I like your skirt I like you to do that I like your hair I like your top I know imagine it's so sweet if I just come up to you and said I like your shoes yeah well I do that now so I have a rule and I did this other day if I'm walking along and it's a dress now if I see a woman or a man I'd do it to a man too anyone in a dress that I love have to really love the dress I will stop them and say I love your dress because I think if you've put a dress

on and you I think it's a lovely thing and I will always do it I did it in Cardiff station about a week ago I ran up to this woman in a silk dress and I said I absolutely love your dress I love the colours of it and she was like thank you and she stopped in her tracks and Ellis was like oh my god And I said, no, I have this rule now, I will always do that. Do you talk about that forever? You know, I love that, isn't it? It's very putting good energy out. I like that man's outfit.

It's very... Go and tell him then. I don't know. He won't believe him. No, it's... He looks like... You know, this is an Italian football manager. Yeah.

He's a bit sopranos. Because he's got a whole track suit on it that's matching, and that's actually really hard to pull off, isn't it? Don't you think? And it also, it could have come. cost a tenor and it could have cost a grand and I just wouldn't know. But I, it makes me, I find stories like that, sort of heartbreaking but also oddly reassuring in a way because you realise that,

you know, I mean, you wanted to belong, didn't you? And that's sort of all everyone wants is someone to say, I like you, essentially. And when you're a kid, there's no way of saying that, is there. There's no way of saying, you know, will you be my friend? will you like me? I know. Yeah, absolutely. And the same with relationships.

Like I remember, I had my first boyfriend when I was eight and he was 10. No, sorry, I was 10 and he was eight. And that was my first kiss. That was, we Frenchied behind the canteen. He was eight and I was 10. I know. But the way I got him to kiss me was to go up to him and go out to him and go,

I love you, do you love me? Because I didn't understand. And I think it's the same with friends when you're young. It's like, please be my friend. It's like everything's, you want that. assurance don't you that you're not alone I suppose which is what we want later in life as well through friends or family or lovers or whatever I think it's a lot simpler when you're younger yeah or pets and and do you think when you

would go up to those girls and say oh I like your dress or how did it go sometimes it was fine but sometimes they were a bit confused and I remember going to ballet and saying to someone I like your ring and she was like oh you know because it It would just come out of the blue. It wasn't like a natural thing. I was just because mum had told me that was the way to make friends. And I also remember this as well. When we moved from Chesent to Matlock, which was quite a long way,

when I was six, we moved in the summer holidays and I had no friends. And it was with all the internet, obviously. And we put a sign in the window saying six-year-old girl needs children to play with, please knock at the door. And no one knocked at all for the whole six weeks. weeks and I used to look out of the window and just look at all these kids walking past and oh is he no one knocked but was your sit were you close to your sister um yeah we're like we're quite different we've got on them really well she's got a brilliant sense of humour

um she works in the financial sector and her is very different from me but I think we've both got this love of order and thoroughness and I quite like the satisfaction. I quite like stand up and I quite like writing. And I like acting as well for this reason actually in the way that you do a job and then it's done. And when you write a stand-up show, it's finished. And you can say, I did that and now it's done and I'm moving on. Certainly the same with the book. Same with the show really.

But the reason I like stand-up and writing is because it's kind of very essential. a solo thing. Go this way. And I think she's got the same thing. I think she quite, she's good with numbers and she quite likes that thing of like, right, that goes there, that's that, that's that sum and that's finished. And yeah, they're both quite anal. So I'm trying to say.

Yeah, I think so. I actually had lunch with my accountant yesterday who's really lovely. And my friend, Polly, and he was saying that. I am the most organized person, like, especially compared to Ellis, because he's got the same accountant. He basically delivers his receipts about once every five years in a sock, you know. And I have got an Excel sheet with every single pay slip, national insurance, equity pension, VAT, total paid, date.

And my accountant was, yeah. I mean, he couldn't really say you are the most, because he's got some discretion. but I was like, am I the most organised client you got? And he sort of had a glint at his eye light. I was saying, actually, I don't think I need to send you that Excel sheet. So I think my sister and I both have got that. We take great pleasure from like ordering things. Wow, that's amazing.

This is, Izzy's impressed by Ray's water bottle. I wonder if that's partly to do with. I always think people who have a parent who is sciencey or, Do you know what I mean, Matthew or that way inclined, that doesn't feel such an unnatural way to be, does it? I mean, it's absolutely a brilliant way to be. I'm really jealous. But I sometimes think I could lighten up a bit. In other way, when I say that I've had lunch with my accountant, where it makes me sound like Robbie Williams or something.

It was literally that we were in the same area, and we really love him and he's like an uncle to us. Yeah, no, I do not what you mean? Yeah, but sometimes I think, like, even yesterday I was like, I don't think I need to do this Excel sheet. And I said to them, why can't I just let it go? Like, why can't I just, why can't? I really actually love doing it. It's quite chaotic in a way that the arts industry using it in its loosest term, isn't it? Like being freelance and stuff.

And I sometimes wonder if it's a way of kind of exerting control over some element of it. And also things can, you can get off of things last minute, can you? And you can kind of, whereas somehow it's going like, right, I'm going to make a cup of tea and I'm going to do my account. I quite, yeah, I quite like it. Look, he's looking at you, is he? It's like he's waiting for a story. Do you think he, like, how much not, like, do you think he understands you and do you, like, if he read him a story, would he, like... When you say, if you...

So, you were saying that was interesting that you wanted to, you felt that needs to sort of, you know, to go to the big city, essentially. And was that because I get the impression you... always wanted to perform. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, it just happened, whereas you always felt this is what I want to do. Yeah, no, it was the opposite. Like, it was absolutely always the focus. I can't ever remember wanting to do anything else, anything else. Apart from, I jumped off a bridge for a £1 bet when I was 13 into a river and broke my uncle. And I wanted to be a tennis champion for about two weeks after that because I lay on the sofa watching Wimbledon because I only really wanted to be a tennis player because I

wanted to make people laugh on the court between shots. Then I realised I couldn't play tennis and went back to the original plan. Like, that is the only time I've deviated from it. Performing was your thing, Izzy, wasn't it? Always. And writing. I used to write little sketches and the songs and stuff. But from a really, really young age, from whenever I can remember, it was just, I want to be a star. IJ. is going to be a star. And what did your parents think of this?

And they were very supportive, but they had to make sure that I worked hard at it. Like, they, I don't think they would have liked it if I'd not know. what I wanted to do and then suddenly gone I'm going to be an actress but I haven't done any acting but I fancy that at kind of 17 I worked I went to youth theatre I was in school plays I really was addicted to it and I think they were quite worried that I wouldn't have an income and I did a secretarial course I took a year out because I didn't get in 20 drama schools I was forced to take a year out and I just stayed in Matlock and did plays and did a secretarial course but just gave up after a couple of months. I just wanted to do

plays, amateur plays, local youth theatres, this thing at Dowie Playhouse, like a community theatre thing. I would do absolutely anything that I could do. I just wanted to perform and write songs and perform the songs. And so I think they could see that I was really

serious and I worked really hard at college. I was like, did extra tap lessons. I was always on time. I was so scared of getting kicked out at drama school because they used to kick people out if they were late and if they, and I was in sort of 9 to 5.30 every day and all my other mates at uni were kind of like, oh, I had eight hours of lectures this week

and I'd be like, I've just done, you know, a full day in that extra rehearsal. I just loved it. I did love it. And I went to a really musical theatre drama school, I went to Guildford School of Acting and it's quite kind of tits and teeth. But I left without an agent,

and I left, you know, some people in my year had got agents, and I didn't. And I just applied the old Excel sheet regime to PCR production and casting report which I got every week. My mum would get those. Really? Well she'd get them and she'd read them out

and she'd go, oh what about this? My sister was like, no mum, you're not Italian, you're not 25. Yeah, exactly. Can you play the heart? Yeah. So you'd get the part for you to buy it. I'd get PCR and then I would just send out

for anything that was remotely within my remit and then I would also send out 50 CDs a week to agents. And then it was before the internet really was being used so I used to send up paper CDs and then every day these returned CVs and photos would plonk onto the welcome mat and we had a wall in the kitchen because we were all actors with I don't think any of us had agents all in our very early 20s we had this wall

in the kitchen with the best rejection letters we used to pin them up and draw like horrible pictures on them and write horrible it was brilliant it was like really cathartic but I was just like absolutely always putting every single feeler out. It was like... You're quite a grafter, aren't you? Yeah. I think it's interesting because sometimes women get discouraged from saying they're ambitious,

but I like to encourage women to embrace that side of themselves. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? It feels like we have to apologise for it. Did you ever feel that? No. And believe me, I felt like I've had to apologise for a lot in my life. That sounds really...

What I mean is like any woman, I've kind of gone, was thinner. I wish I hadn't, I wish I hadn't slept with that guy. I don't mean that I've gone around kind of going, I can do anything I want at all. I saw, you know, and I suffer for imposter syndrome like most comics do at times and sort of go, I shouldn't be doing this gig, I'm not, but I have never ever, ever wavered from what I want to do and I've always work really hard and I've always said I work really, really hard and I prepare really thoroughly as well.

Yeah. Yeah, I just can't. But I think, again, I could probably let a bit of that go. Maybe in a way it's me kind of going trying to cling on to some control, but I'd rather be like that than rock up to something and be like, oh, I haven't learned my lines. I haven't...

I can see that in you, actually. It's a slightly more forensic quality, which I like. A lot of people do it in secret, but they don't fess up to it. Yeah, that's true. It's almost seen as like, It's cooler, isn't it, to be like, and same with exams.

Like, were there those people at your school who were like, I haven't done any revision, I'm just going to, and then you find out that they did absolutely loads. Yeah, that was me. Really? You see, I believed them and didn't. I always maintain I would have got an A for A level English language instead of a B if we haven't spent all night

on the phone to boys we'd met at Centre Parks from Wellington College. We're called Ed and Marius, and we were like, stayed at my best mate's house the night before our English language A level and we were like, let's ring Ed and Maris it was supposed to be revising. And just stayed on the phone to them all night and then did our

high levels. My mum's always like, you would have got an A if it hadn't been for Ed and Marius. Tell me, we need to talk about your fabulous book. But to bring us up to that point, I just want to know with comedy,

you went straight into, well, I say you went straight into, But you started doing stand-up, didn't you? And that's, I always think people that do that are so balzy. Well, I, so, yeah, I graduated and did all the PCR stuff. And then had been doing the songs. So when I was at college, I started to do, I suppose, comedy songs, which happened kind of by accident.

I just did what I thought was a reasonably serious song, but in a French accent, and made everyone laugh. And that was such a brilliant feeling. That was the first time I'd made people laugh with a thing that I'd written. But when I graduated, I didn't do stand-up for two years. I was just doing theatre and education and kind of fringe theatre and stuff and lots of jobs like cleaning, working in course centres and stuff, bar jobs. And then I started going out with another stand-up

and then I saw loads and loads of stand-up suddenly. So I was going to gigs almost every night of the week. And watching his set change and watching him read different rooms and stuff, and then I at that point I'd thought about performing a double act with my friend before then but and I think I probably would have gone down the character comedy route if I hadn't started going out with John and because of going out with him and then suddenly being in the immersed in the world of stand-up I was like I'm going to I'm going to try stand-up so before that I was watching these character comedy nights that were amazing but I'm

quite pleased that I went the route that I did rather than doing a double act, because I think I am probably better on my own on stage. You know, I've been doing stand-up for 19 years, which I can't believe. And I started doing stand-up again. I sort of stopped in 2016, because I had a very young child who I didn't really want to be away from at night, then had another kid in 2019, and now I'm just going, right, I wanted to start doing a few gigs again. And I've put down the guitar, which is the first time I performed without the guitar since about 2004. and the other night I was like, I'm not going to take it.

I'm just going to do new material without, and it was an absolute revelation. I had to, me and Ellis had to practice how I'd hold the mic because I don't ever hold the mic. I'm just behind it with the guitar. That's a bit of an element of it being a safety blanket in a way. I was thinking this earlier, certainly physically. I feel like, because you've got the guitar in front of you,

you can lean on it, you can kind of finger pick under stories, or you can, so I think so, maybe in a less straightforward way than kind of are the songs, but certainly physically, and perhaps, you know, like, if you end on a song, you know you're going to get around of applause, even if it hasn't gone that well. And believe me, they've done plenty of gigs where, you know, like uni gigs, especially, where I've died hard, but you still know that if you end on a song, people will automatically clap. So there was something quite, I felt like I was on the edge of a cliff.

I was like, I'm not going to do a song at the end. Oh, my God, oh, my God. And I'm going to do a gig tonight and I'm not, I emailed him on the way here and said, I don't think I'm going to bring the guitar. But I just had this feeling of if the room's big, I feel like a certain responsibility to play a song. It's a new material night. So I don't think I will. I'm going to try and do 20 minutes of new.

So it never ends that excitement. And I don't think you should lose that. I think you can tell stand-ups who've kind of lost that joy at discovering whether a joke works or not. And I imagine, France, Frank is a bit like this, that he will dissect something. And if it doesn't quite work, he'll go, if I swap that word around it, it'll work. And, you know, that is the joy of it. There's a mathematical element to it.

Most stand-ups really adore that, I think. But at the beginning, you do just, I think you just have to want to do it enough to endure those deaths. I think that's all. You just get addicted to it. And then the fact that you've died on stage becomes less relevant than what, what you can learn from having died. Does it become easier since, as most people will know, you know, obviously your TV work has been really celebrated now.

And when you played Dobby and Peep Show, is that 2005? Maybe a bit late in 2008. Yeah, 2007. Yeah, it doesn't it. So when you played Dobby and Peep Show, obviously that kind of broke you in terms of being a name, I suppose, and getting recognised a lot. Does that, how does that affect your work now and your stand-up specifically?

You know, do you think that it gives you an easier, not an easier time, but when you walk into a room, is it nice in a way that everyone's like, oh, it's, is it? Maybe. Like, I feel like now it doesn't really have that much effect. And I suppose it's because Peep Show feels like quite a long time ago. And I feel like now I'm used to the feeling like, when I first was on Peep Show, it didn't make, it actually, I feel like it made it harder and easy at the same time. I started getting booked to do slots I wasn't quite ready for

because of Peep Show. So I'd be closing gigs that I just wasn't really ready to close. I wasn't good enough. And that was a bit of an odd feeling. If you were on after and getting paid more than someone better than you, but who had less of a profile at that time, I just felt guilty and weird about it. But generally, I mean, I think I felt like maybe early on,

I felt like I should address it, but then I just don't know. I'm like, God, I'm just me. I don't really think about it. What's weird is? If people come up to you, Izzy, a lot and still say, do you get called Dobby and things? Sill? Yeah, a bit, but I really like, now more I get, they come up and like, they might say, oh, I like, or like, man down or something.

Or, oh, my radio, if I ever get my radio show, I'm like, oh, my God, thank you. That means so much, because I work so hard on it. But yeah, like, yeah, not as much as... I don't get people coming up saying Dobby as much as I did when it was on. It's quite nice sometimes, but especially as when I used to go out in East London, it was sometimes a bit like... It's if you're drunk and you feel like you can't relax because someone might be listening to what you're saying and stuff.

Yes, that's true. I always remember that when my dad was dying, I came home on the train from Derby to London. and oh there's a rat how does you feel about rats? I don't really like rats Can we move? Can we move?

God, no I mean, who likes rats? Where is it? Don't worry, it went under that It went towards the pond We don't like rats Me and Ray No, well I don't Can I be in your not liking rats club

Please So my dad was My dad was very ill My dad was dying I was coming back to London And I had like a really long conversation with my sister that contained lots of private stuff and then and this actually happened more than once at that time I think my guard was really down and so it happened twice on the train

back to London on the separate occasions and it happened in a cafe that I was talking to people about dad and then someone who'd been sitting there for a while and heard the whole conversation was like, are you, is he? Oh, can I get a selfie? And then I was like, fuck, God, I've just said stuff that I wouldn't even say to. So that was the worst being recognised, period, if you know what I mean. Because I'm quite bad at, you know you meet like,

so it's quite odd the level of, God, I don't want to say fame, but being known that I've got. Yeah. because it's not every day and also sometimes people look at you and you can see that they've sort of clocked you but they don't come up and but it's quite a nice level

and I feel really satisfied with this level and I definitely wouldn't really want it to go much higher than this whereas I always think people like Madonna or like Beyonce or something they must have to be so guarded all the time if they were on a train which they probably wouldn't be in a private jet or something

but you know or even you know the Beckham has probably go first class on a train you can't talk about anything. It's exhausting. It must be, I would just hate it. You must have such a small circle of people you can trust. And I just would hate to live like that. Well, I wanted to say actually, I remember, Izzy, you sent me,

I'd met you a few times. We met through Frank Skinner, who's a mutual friend of ours, and you sent me a really lovely message when my dad died, I think. And you just said, oh, I just heard and I understand and if you want to talk. And I just thought it was so lovely. I thought, God, what a compassionate thing to do. And I really wanted to thank you for that. Oh, thanks.

Well, God, it's fine and it still stands. It doesn't, my dad died on Boxing Day 2011 and I can't believe that's nearly 10 years ago. I don't think it really... I remember someone well-meaning saying to me about three months after Dad had died, do you still think about it every day or are you able to get on with things? And it was like, oh my God, that's like,

he's like in my blood. He's in my... He's sort of with me all the time. The idea that I would have a day where it didn't cross my... Do you know what I mean? But they haven't been through it. And I think it still stands. I don't think it...

It's a... weird thing isn't it it changes as time goes on perhaps but then sometimes I feel like still as shocked as I did the day it happened oh thank you he's good with kids actually because he's he's not really like a dog are you she put him on the ground and you can see him this is Raymond he's very gentle do you want to touch his fur he's very soft oh I'm sitting down very well very well very well Do you like him? Yeah, you could take him all even really.

You know. That's a standard. It's all right. You've had better dogs. Oh, it's nice to meet you. What's your name? What's your name, darling? Ruth.

What a great name? Bye, thank you for a lesson. Bye, thank you for a lesson. Bye, Rufus. Bye, Rufus. Bye. Nice to meet you. Come on, Raymond.

I want to talk about Jane's Tramie's And it's so brilliant, Izzy, and I absolutely loved it. It's one of those books that you just race through it. It's so funny, and you're so gifted at character. One of the reasons I loved it is because she's complicated, but not in the sort of traditional way that women are expected to be, if I'm honest, in a lot of literature, which is kind of like, oh, you're so kooky, or you're saying,

Whereas it's like, no, she's just a real person. And you haven't tried to airbrush her, you know. Yeah, good. I really wanted that to be the case. I read two books about how to write a novel before I wrote the novel and then thought, I've got to stop reading books about how to write novels and just write the bloody novel. Yes, that can be a full-time job, Con. It's like I'd written one book that was sort of in a sense a bit like a novel, wasn't it, the actual one?

It wasn't a novel, but it had a... beginning, middle and then. And I was like, I actually learned some really, really good stuff, especially for a book called Take Off Your Pants by Libby Hawker, which is an American book about how to write. And it's very, very basically explain it's so good. And she just uses Pocahontas and things like that as illustrations. No bullshit. It was brilliant. And so, but one of the main things that I picked up from these two books about how to write a novel was, not to be scared of making the main character flawed. And I think that previously, whenever I'd written anything, including lots of pilot scripts and things.

The main character was always kind of, maybe a little bit, kind of, what am I doing with my life? But essentially lovable and kind and all that. And I thought, I'm actually going to make her. She's probably going to be a bit annoying at times. And that was so liberating. And it felt like she was more real.

Because actually, we are all quite complicated, aren't we? And I think in some ways, you know, she's got OCD, she's got health anxiety. She's also pretty confident at her job, a bit arrogant about her copywriting. But the point of which she's incredibly stubborn as well in terms of inflexible. I've made my mind up about something. But it just felt like a real family I was reading about, you know, and her life felt real.

And when I wrote the book, I imagined going back to my old mum and dad's house when I was writing Jane's environment and stuff. So when I used to go back, I didn't feel like Jane is when she goes back. My mum and dad didn't Molly coddle me like I think they do. But the layout of the house is exactly the same and it was really lovely to remember my parents' old house and how it was when I was writing it. Your characters are real people and they're funny, you know.

And I always think comics, people who've done this for a living, 10,000 hours, they, in some ways, they've slightly got a head start on everyone else, frankly, because you've just, you command language, but also you understand the choices you make. I mean, you're going to make choices about. I think that, I think that doing Edinburgh really helps with that, because you're kind of face with a blank canvas and you think, what should I do an Edinburgh show about, and then you have to make decisions quite quickly because of the deadline, hang it on something, and just do it.

Well, I want everyone to buy your book because honestly, it's just brilliant. It's one of those books, like I say, that you just feel so immersed in it. And I don't really sad when it ended. I hope you write another one. Oh, thanks. I want to know what happens to her. I think she'll be all right. I feel like, thank you.

I've just read a book call, a bit of a stretch by Chris Atkins, who it's brilliant. It's about his time in one's with prison. he's a documentary maker who got imprisoned for sort of fraud to do with acquiring money to make a documentary. And it's diaries of his time inside. And I love reading. I read all the time. I'm reading Liam Williams' book, Homes and Experiences as well, which is fantastic. Yeah, but I don't, I, Jay, I don't want to promote that.

Hey, but listen. Sorry, my point is going to be. Then the other day I thought, maybe, because I was reading the prison book, I thought, I thought, maybe Jane should go to prison. Like, maybe it should be something really. weird because mum bless her because she liked it as I say I mean when I was in the sound

of music mum was like you were adequate like she's always really honest oh it was that at school well I was 16 that was a Matlock Operatic Society you were adequate we're going to let you go because you've got a gig tonight but I need to ask you before

we go about Ellis just very briefly you're so suited and you seem such a lovely couple What is it, tell me about when you met him and why, why does it work? We met at a gig in Barnstapal and he was late. He was comparing.

He's a, well, he doesn't do stand up as much now. He is a broadcaster. You know on our son's birth certificate, he put his profession as a broadcaster and then he walked around behind the guy's computer to check that he'd written on broadcast. I was like, what has happened to you? Anyway, he's got a show on five live with John Robbins. He does lots of other bits and bobs, doesn't he? He does a brilliant shit.

And he does a podcast called The Social Distance Sports Bar as well. So, yeah, when we met, we were doing a lot of stand-up and we met at a gig, he was late, and he'd spilt Ribena all down himself in the car. He was absolutely covered. Look, I just thought, this guy is great. He had this cagool covered in Ribina, and he left it behind, and I smelt it.

I haven't thought about this since. And it smelt really strongly of his aftershave. And I loved it. And then he came back. I think I might have sent him a message on Facebook saying, I've got your cagool, and he came back to get it. But then his relationship status on Facebook said, in a relationship.

So I was like, okay, he's in a relationship, fine. You know, that's that. And then, but we kept Facebook messaging each other. Just sort of nothing, you know, just sort of, hi, how's it going? Oh, he did a gig near Matlock, blah, blah, blah. And then I did a gig in Cardiff. And he lives in Cardiff. and then we sort of got together.

But then there was a thing of like, he lives in Cardiff, I live in London. It was very innocent. It was very lovely. We spent a lot of time on the phone to each other. And it felt like we were like teenagers. We just couldn't stop talking on the phone. And then he moved to London quite quickly, I guess.

But he went to Australia as soon as we met for three months. That would have made me very sick. It was grim. So I went weirdly, I don't really like getting abroad, but I went for two weeks to do Sydney Arts Festival first. Then we were back for something like nine days. And then he went for three and a half months to Melbourne and then a tour of the Outback doing stand-up.

And we used to Skype each other every day. I felt like love sick. I felt like sick all the time because I wasn't with him. I felt like, yeah. And I almost can't listen to me. music that I used to listen to a song by Dizzy Rascal, which I still love, but it reminds me so much of Missing Ellis that it's almost too much to bear to listen to it. So yeah, that was in 2010. You don't seem like arguers. No, but I think, yeah, I think lockdowns, like, I definitely

didn't I'm I'm I think I'm an extrovert although I like a bit of time on my own I can't be with people all the time but I don't need much time on my own it's just like a little top-up of self yeah but he doesn't really need people to be honest does he not know so when we were locked down that was you know at times I think it was hard because I wanted to chat and I wanted and then I also got bored of him because I would have got bored of anyone who I was living with because it's just one person I think I need to see lots of different people

and he just literally needed a book and didn't really need me. What would he say about you, Is he? I'm interested. If someone said, oh, what's the thing with Izzy? I think he'd say that I... Yeah, I know what you mean. I think he'd say that I chat too much at night because I think he's always winding down at night

and that's like my time to get going. So I often try and start quite deep chats at like 11.30pm. and he's like no more chatting. He actually says, no more chatting. And then he just won't reply. Well, I think he'd say that I'm kind. I think it's say that I'm a bit of a warrior. Like I think as I've got older,

I think it's also being apparent to young children and all the logistics that that comes with as well as the emotional stuff. I think that has perhaps made me a bit more quick to snap. Yeah. we still have a lot of fun and we try and have a lot of fun as a family because I think that I really can't remember doing things like all singing songs

together when I was a kid so I try and sort of have as much fun as possible all four of us do you see yourself in your kids a lot yeah and so my son is only two so it's hard to tell at this stage I suppose but but Betty is

six and yeah she's she's funny and she is I think probably going to go into performing but maybe not and I'm not certainly not going to push it but yeah I and we look alike which I think makes makes difference I don't let you down Ray we've got to let us you go soon I often ask people on this before I let them go if I liberate them I'm interested in what makes people cry and sort of the last time they cried so oh yeah okay cry? Was it when you were told that I was bringing a dog today?

Because it's all right? No. No it wasn't. It must have been a TV thing. Because I cry quite easily. A lot of people say they cry more easily since they become parents almost. Just sort of getting upset by news. Oh, I know when it was. I was, yeah. I went to a wedding last week and I told you not go to your ex's wedding. No, exactly. He didn't invite me.

I still went. I wore a white dress. It was the only one in the wardrobe. I went to a wedding last week that was absolutely fantastic. But the day before I said to my daughter that the child minder was picking her up and taking her home, who she adores. but I think she just finds it a bit harder since lockdown to she wants the routine of us being there in the evenings and so she started hysterically crying and was like

please don't go mommy please I beg of you please don't mind you go I don't mind you go on the evening for work but I feel really abandoned why can't kids come please don't go and I couldn't calm her down and then it was and then I cried then because I just felt so guilty and so sad

and like I was letting her down but you know what I think that I think she will have seen that it upset you and she doesn't understand about work and things but I think that's so lovely that she has that kind of bond with you

and yeah I agree like I think and also I really don't go out that that like I go now I've started gigging again

I'm like it's tricky because I want because I need I really do love seeing people regardless of COVID like it would be like this

anyway but I think also I am a bit starved of it it's weird isn't it because you think oh we've been locked down for so long I've got to make up

for lost time but really I mean how long does it take to make up for lost time if you go out every night for two weeks surely then you've

made up for I think anyway for me but stuff like I go around and watch Married at First Site, Australia, at my friends. And throughout lockdown, we did it in her garden and dragged her TV to like the door of her summer house thing at the end of her garden and drank cans of G&T and Et Malteseers in sleeping bags. And it was like so brilliant. And now I can go in her house and watch it. And we only do it about once a

month. But it's stuff like that. I was also crying because I was thinking, I'm not going to be able to watch Married at First Sight anymore. No, I've started gigging again. I'm not. Oh, it's Brilliant. I get a good vibe about your family set up. I think it sounds lovely. And you know what? I'm so glad that we took way out today because... I know you're not a fan, but I feel it's been quite good.

Oh, I think it has been good. Do you know what I've learned? Are that all dogs are not the same? And maybe it's to do with me getting to know the dog and then making a decision. I don't have to love them if I don't feel like I don't, but I do love him. And Lizzie loves you. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.