Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - James Middleton (Part Two)

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Join Emily, Mabel, Isla, Luna, Inca and Nala for the second part of our walk with James Middleton in Berkshire!James tells us about how his dog Ella helped him in the hardest time of his life and how she also led him to meet his wife Alizée. We also chat about that time which we all dread - losing a pet. James tells us how he coped with losing his beloved Ella and the gifts that she gave him throughout her life. … and we got to meet James’ tractor! To be honest, we never wanted to leave the farm! As a content warning, this podcast contains discussion of suicidal feelings. If you need support with you mental heath you can find support and resources with Samaritans and Mind. Follow James on Instagram @jmidy James' brilliant new book about the dog who changed his life is out now. Buy your copy of Meet Ella here!Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Really hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with James Middleton. If you haven't heard part one, do go back and give it a listen, and I really urge you to read his brilliant new book, Meet Ella, the Dog Who Saved My Life. Also, just to give you a brief content warning, this part of my chat with James does contain some discussion of suicidal feelings. So there will be links in the podcast description for anyone who needs support with their mental health. Thanks so much for listening to Walking the Dog, by the way. We so love having you on our walk.

so do subscribe to us so you can hear us every week. I'm going to hand over now to the man himself. Here's James and Zulu and Inca and Luna and Mabel and Nala and Isla. Ila. I want to talk also, obviously, James, about some of the tougher times you experience because you write about that really movingly in your book and I think it will be immensely helpful to anyone who's experienced those feelings which so many people have.

and just to put it in context really you know on the outside of course everyone must be looking at you thinking look at this man this wonderful glamorous privilege life he has but inside something's not right is it it was a really challenging time

that because I think that was you're exactly right it was on the outside I sort of looked and acted as if everything was fine but meanwhile inside it was sort of everything was collapsing and I I lost sort of sense of who I was and each day and month or week that went on I was sort of getting that little bit worse and it is like almost somebody just turning on a dimmer switch or a you know a colour switch and slowly all the colour in everything that you sort of once saw beauty in is is being dimmed and it turns to black and

white or oh no very smelly pond ila really james was just talking about a really hard time in his life this is what dogs are doing for you know and you're talking about all the colour's gone and james do you want to describe what the hell is on your dog or green bits is it algae no there's a very smelly pond in here and I think they've and it's low on water so it I think it's the concentrated smelly stuff that you get in the bottom of a pond oh I look forward to smelling that come on but no I think and yeah the just things that I used to get enjoyment from I wasn't getting any enjoyment for or I was sort of struggling to see the purpose in what life was for and what the things that I was working hard for or what what what was working hard for what

was I working hard for and so what did you stop enjoying for example just so anything from a simple to music or seeing friends or going to the pub or you know going on a bike ride you would sort of start it and then you're like what am i doing i don't want to do this anymore like i it is really difficult to explain and that's where you know writing actually really helped me so i wrote a lot when i was in that state because i was trying to figure it out myself how I was feeling and I couldn't understand. And the more I wrote, the more it sort of I unraveled, I suppose, how I wasn't right. But I didn't want anyone to know.

I didn't want to sort of, so I masked it, I covered it up and I just thought it would go away. If I just cover it up and blah, then it might go. And I think, you know, in anything like that, the more you try to cover something up, the more it bruise and the intenser it gets when it comes back. So for me, I think I tried to convince myself that I was fine. And actually it was getting what I didn't know at the time,

but I sort of since know it was depression. And it came a point when the depression overtook me and I lost control of it and we all have mental health we have mental health and same way we have physical health and there was a point when the depression took over who I was and my identity and so therefore I lost myself I lost James as I knew myself to be and I didn't have the tools to figure out how to get him back so I was sort of living this life of pretending to be who I thought I was and that was a fast and downward spiral but the the one individual that was

always there that did sort of keep me happy and did give me a glimpse of hope was Ella because like these dogs have just jumped in the pool in that smelly pond that they she was herself every day like she didn't worry about yesterday she didn't think oh my god tomorrow What have I got on? Each day is they're living the moment, they're enjoying it at that time. And I, through her, was able to enjoy those moments

with her and through her. Although I tried to disguise my feelings, or my sort of this, what was happening, I think it was really obvious to all those that were close to me, my friends, my family, and they became more and more concerned. But the more and more concerned, but the more and more concerned and perhaps the more they reached out, the more I retracted. And it's really challenging, you know, depression is challenging for those that are going through it.

But it's also really challenging for the families surrounding it because in my experience, I'm saying this is the same for everybody because everybody's journey can be slightly different. But it was my family that were the hardest to talk to because they knew me so well. And I felt ashamed. I felt embarrassed. I felt I'd let them down. There's a huge amount of different thoughts and feelings I had towards it. So I sort of wanted to maybe protect them from my own feelings. I don't know what it was, but I can't put my finger on why. But then that made me retract more and more.

Ella was by my side at all of that time. I'm very fortunate that she was because I stopped sleeping. I lost a lot of weight. I couldn't eat because food just got stuck. I had such bad anxiety that it would just sit in my throat and I was restless. I would sit down, I would get up, I would walk around, I couldn't watch a film, I couldn't turn my mind off. And that, you know, led me to thinking that there wasn't a way out.

I was having suicidal thoughts and I you know and again at the time I was thinking you know what does this mean I didn't understand why I was feeling like this how I could feel like this I was so privileged in my upbringing and everything that I've had I've been fortunate enough but so I didn't feel like I was able to have depression I didn't think I was you know um entitled to be taken seriously if I was to be told I had depression or if I said I had depression and there was one night I I couldn't sleep and I was confined by the four walls of my flat and I needed space and I went up onto the roof and I if it wasn't for Ella sitting at the bottom of the skylight I don't know if I'd be here today I

was I couldn't work out what to do with her she was she kept on as I walked past I would catch her eyes and I didn't want her to be left alone and what she needed me and I needed her and there's this sort of mutual respect in that and so eventually I realized it was in this is in November I was cold it was a cold evening and I was suddenly I realized I was freezing cold and climbed back down and I had scared myself and I realized that there was something fundamentally wrong and that I couldn't just sweep it under the carpet and I went to work the next day and I just couldn't get out of the car and I mess with my our doctor and asked and she couldn't pick up that she didn't pick up and sort of you know but she sent me a text

message saying all okay and I just replied saying no it's not nothing it's not okay and I didn't know why. And that was a huge turning point in, I think, finally admitting that something had consumed me and that, as I said, I had scared myself to the point that there was only two ways out. And I was lucky enough that I did pick up my phone and ask for that help. And I think the first thing I learned was there's not a quick fit. and there's not an overnight solution and but that's what I wanted I wanted it to go away now I was just done I was fed up with feeling like this and it's a feeling

of not feeling anything at all it's having absolutely it's like having no taste buds or having no sense of anything so I went to go and see see somebody in that initial person wasn't wasn't right I didn't they didn't I didn't feel like connected with them and and again I was reminded it's a process it's not necessarily that everyone there's one you know one doctor will or one sort of doctor will fix everybody it's is you got to find the right person who you can connect with and be able to unravel everything and and and that's what I did but if I was told sort of you know that in well from that point to where I was not

short, not long after, I would never would have believed. I think it's the not seeing a way out and not knowing that, you know, and you've got to put in the time and the F and the energy. And it did continue to, it didn't just get better straight away. It stayed bad for a while. I continue to not be able to eat or sleep. But I think just that initial thing of saying I'm not okay was, probably enough to make me feel like things are going to be okay. Your therapist, who sounds an incredible man, incidentally. Dr. Pereira, he's, he's, I connected with him and I remember when I went to go and see him, I didn't ask, I do have this habit of not asking if I can bring Ella with me.

And I also figured that if I'd just say, can I bring Ella? people didn't always know who Ella is and automatically assume that Ella is a dog or a friend. Well maybe it's your partner, right? Exactly. And so they said, of course. So I brought Ella and one of those lost in translation things. But I sort of, I walked all the way to Borough Market where his practice was and hoping I was going to be turned around.

But fortunately I was. and Ella was made to feel very welcome and I just spoke and spoke and spoke and I had all of these questions in my mind and the questions that I was being asked were not the questions that I was wanting to answer. That's how it works. Unravel and this is exactly that. It was starting to unravel and you know I was being asked a lot about my childhood and I was asked a lot about my school and it was quite quickly then that he's thought that

I might have ADD or ADHD and send me off to get tested and that came back as a big tick. Big tick and you know my parents were concerned because I was being given these labels and they didn't want to, you know, I love labels. Personally I think labels are fantastic because it helps you understand and I appreciate that for them, you know, being labels as seen as a negative but actually that's a generational thing. I think. For me, being labelled as someone who had ADHD meant that I had had labels all my life, which was lazy, oversensitive, unreliable, chaotic, disorganised, a hot mess.

You name it, I had it, a train wreck. And then suddenly, I thought, oh, I'm okay with the label. I prefer this label. Yeah. That's how I see it. Actually, it made sense. made and he gave me this book about ADD specifically and just said look take a

highlighter and take this back and then next see you which in a week's time or so you know bring it back with you and we can go through the bits that you've highlighted and why they and why you feel like they reflect you I had to go to WXM S and buy another highlight I've highlighted the whole bloody book and it was just sort of like you know being dyslexic reading is not my favorite hobby so I was sort of of you know engaged in this book because it's like this has been written about me I was like every page I was turning so how do they know that's that's how I interpretate these things and there were these little glimitses of as things were being unpicked that

although yes I had a you know a great education and I had a great childhood and very privileged I you know and that's where this sort of square peg in society's expectations view sort of round whole sort of analogy comes in because of course it's going to hurt. If your edges are trying to be shaved off, you're feeling like you're not right in, but actually the best thing that Sasaki could do is to become a square hole. Because then it can accept a triangle, it can accept a round peg, it can accept a diamond shape, any shape will fit through. Whereas if you just have a shape that only one shape can fit through that, it's never,

going to work. So I started to sort of understand I think a lot more and once that happened and the unpicking of my clinical depression and the time it took for me to get my head over that and ultimately a lot of the work that my sister and and William were doing in mental health and the access to understanding and information around it. I started to I think I understand myself a bit more and I could see over the horizon just that a little bit further along there is James is over there I'm nearly there to finding him again. Does it feel like a relief that you know I know you had your parents in on the sessions and well I think that was the final key for me well piece for me to as I said just to find who I was again reconnecting with my family was that final piece.

And I'm very fortunate that they were patient in, you know, they were not giving up on me, they weren't saying, you know, putting me under pressure. When the timing was right, they got involved and asked questions and learnt about it. And just sit in your family kitchen and tell them that you're suicidal as a challenge because do you then sit and have dinner afterwards? afterwards do you go and play a game of cards but to be in a room with someone that you've learned over the year over the year or over a process of time to talk about how you feel and then be able to say to them that's how you feel no doors can be slammed no you know wires can get crossed

or you're in a clinical environment you're in an environment which you can share that whereas sometimes in your home you can't share that in the format of which you might mean it or you say in a way that doesn't really sum up how you actually mean it to say because you're trying to protect them from perhaps the truth in it and and that was massively healing for everyone I think because we all learned something from it we all learned a way of being able to express and explain and you know so we brought our already close family even closer in a way and I think that that's something that I look back on it now and although I never wish depression on anybody I think for me it was I'd lost who I was and that journey

to where I am now was enabling me to figure out who I was again and what made me tick and well how do you not reached and it's heartbreaking but incredibly, I think it's amazing that you're talking this openly because people will find us so helpful, James, because the worst thing you can do is to continue masking. And I think you would have had a different future, perhaps, but it would have not involved the authentic James, you know? I'd always been hiding something and I feel, I think the skills that I've learned now to manage myself and manage my mental health have been invaluable. I think I didn't have those skills or

those assets before or that armour to protect myself from myself. And so I one of my coping mechanisms is to talk about it. I find it you know I I do hope that others get something from it to and that if I can go on to help somebody then And I'm, you know, that is for me just fantastic. And it's also for me, a way of keeping on top of it. And also, I wonder if for you, you know, it's tough for everyone. But I think what must have been quite complicated for you to unpick was the fact that in addition to how you were feeling, there was probably, you were kind of self-shaming yourself

in terms of, well, I've got everything. Why have I got the right to feel like this? Do you know what you mean? No, I definitely felt that and I felt that up until I suppose spoke publicly for the first time. I wrote an article in The Daily Mail and I was absolutely terrified about the prospect of this article coming out because I was in a sort of shortened version revealing myself. And we all know what the sort of Daily Mail comments can sometimes be like and it's, slightly challenging environment to be in. That's Dante's seventh circle of hell.

But I was being honest. But I was overwhelmed with the amount of support I had. I think, you know, people in the street were just coming up to me and saying, I just want to say thank you, you know, for you've helped my brother or you've helped, you know, this friend or you've helped me, you know, that sort of thing. I had letters, I had notes being written. I think as well, Jane, people would make assumptions about you because they know nothing about you. And they would just think of you as posh and privileged and hobb-robbing with posh privileged people.

And it's quite comforting to put people in a box like that. Perhaps. I think that will always exist. I don't think one can go about changing it. But you can change your perception on how you think about it. So I don't go around doing things in the hope that people will like it. I go about doing things that I know I love and enjoy, and I'm confident enough in some instances to share those.

I think it's interesting though because actually one thing that's clearly true of you is that actually that whole society world, you could have said, all right, you know, you're fabulously well-connected, you're, you know, very handsome, as my mother said, charming young man. Not in a creepy way she didn't say, I mean. I know what that meant charming. But, you know, you could have sort of been living a different life, couldn't you? You could have been hobnobbing with, you know, in a system.

I wouldn't be James. I would be someone else. I want to talk about something lovely, which is how you met your wife. Thank you for that, coughing. Inka. That means, what about me? You haven't talked enough about me. Basically.

I want to talk about how you met Elyze via Ella. I mean, it's because of Ella that you met your wife. That's right, isn't it? It's just this sort of old saying that sort of the hard you look, the harder it is to find. And I certainly at that point, I would fast forward a little bit. I was on the really good road of recovery from my mental health. I'd sort of found myself again. and I was in the process of starting a new company and I was ready to sort of take on the world again.

And the last thing I wanted to do at that time was cause any instability or play with my emotions or I was vulnerable perhaps still. And I didn't want to fall in love. So I sort of made the silent pact with myself that, you know, just no dating for now. Get you moving again. And I was in this bar in South Kensington called the South Kensington Club and on the terrace. And Ella was with me and Ella was very well behaved and would always sit by the table. And at one point she got up and just wandered over to this other table where there was this girl with a back to me with a long blonde hair. And I just watched her and she then went to sat down and she waited and waited and

Elyze put her hand on and started giving Ella some far so I figured okay she's all right but I'd been waiting for a little bit of time and a waiter hadn't come to take an order. So I picked up the menu and I went out over to the bar to go and order at the bar. And while I passed I just said to this table with Elyze was out with a friend, I'm so sorry I hope Ella isn't bothering you. And she looked up and this beautiful woman looks back in me and in charming French accent goes, no, not at all, but we're still waiting for some drinks.

Could we have a Pinot Noir and a Sauvignon Blanc? Sort of stood there for a second being like, okay, what do I do now? So I just said, okay. And she thought I was the waiter. So she had just sort of thought that I was. I came over to actually ask her for what she'd like to order and just checking that this dog was not bothering her. So I went in and ordered her drinks and walked back and the waiter came and put the drinks down on her table, brought me my drink and Ella was still sat with Elise giving her attention.

I was really sort of caught my eye. I was like, I needed to go, I was off, I was going away the next day and needed to get back home. I was like, what have I got to lose? So I wrote a little note to her. I wrote something along the lines of, and it's in the book, but I might be barking up the wrong tree, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Be perhaps lovely to go for a drink,

and I signed up for myself and Ella and left my number and went and paid their bill, gave it to the waiter, made sure of the two, which one he was meant to give the note and... Yeah, that could have been awkward. I walked out and I sort of walked out the door and I was like, oh shit, what have I done?

What have I done? It's like, okay, just keep walking. And I was like, that is so embarrassing, James. What have I done? I was like, okay, well, the worst thing that's going to happen is he's just not going to say anything. I've lost nothing because I didn't know who she was. So I... And luckily, that evening, my phone pings and I get this message.

the relief. Thank you so much for buying our drinks. And I'll be delighted to meet you and see Ella again. There's been a reply. And here we are, living on our farm with our one-year-old boy in a go. You too. It was really was the perfect match, wasn't it? And there's a story you tell in the book, which I really love,

which tells you a lot about her, that I get the sense that, you know, she had this quite peripatetic childhood because her father was a diplomat and she was travelling the world a bit. So she's not, she wasn't really that aware of you in terms of the public perception of you. And I get the sense you quite like that, didn't you? Well, I think Elisa was, actually, she laughed because of all of her friends. She came over to study and to get a masters here in, well, in London. and she was the worst at English amongst all of her friends. And so the least likely person to end up with an English person was her.

Let alone one who's uncle to the future king. So she didn't read the English papers or follow the English news. She was following sort of world news, I suppose. And so she was aware as to who the royal family was, but she had no idea that Catherine had a little brother called James. And she was delighted that, you know, the royal wedding that she got a day off, that there was a bank holiday, more so than meaning that she could go and watch the wedding. And so there was no reason for her to know who I was.

Did you have to have that thing of saying, look, I've got something to tell you? I think it unraveled itself naturally without it being, I think, you know, a mutual friend that we realised somewhere along the way. And it, but it, it, we had our time to get to know each other. And we'd worked out quite early on that we were potentially quite a good match. We loved a lot of the same things. We enjoyed the same outdoor pursuits. And I love the idea of, you talk about in the book when I think you come back here,

you were at your parents' place. And she, you know, you've been dating for a while, so she was staying over. And she comes into the kitchen and your sister Catherine and brother-in-law William were there. And I think your Charlotte and George, your niece and nephew were there. Alise walks in cool as a cucumber wearing a tousel there on one of your shirts. Yeah, I didn't think she quite knew that everyone was in the kitchen at the time she came down. But Elise is herself. She's not, she doesn't change for people.

She is this most wonderful person. and... Authentic, she sounds. Very authentic and... You know, she says things how she feels. And I love that about her because I know exactly where I stand. Most of our arguments are actually due to translation errors than anything else. So we laugh at that because it's like, well, no, I meant that.

But that word means this. No, it doesn't. Well, you had a slight translation fail at your wedding. in France. Yes, that's true. Because you, what did you think you were saying and what did you end up saying James Bondleton? I thought I was saying welcome, but I ended up saying bugger basically to everyone.

Yeah, I thought I would do a part of my speech in French which perhaps was a nice idea but I should have maybe just practised a pronunciation a little bit better. And I won't repeat what I did say in French. For me, it was meeting a liege was almost, I felt like it was too good to be true. And I went on to, you know, fall in love with her. And I was sort of thinking how quickly is too quickly to fall in love with someone. And we were two people who were not looking to enter a new relationship. And I think because we weren't actively looking, we weren't chasing anything.

Yeah. we inadvertently gave ourselves an unfiltered version of ourselves and I think that gave us the opportunity to fall in love with each other quite quickly it's one of those you know when I was reading about your journey and where you'd come from and I'm I was so rooting for you and so happy that that's how things had worked out And then you went and made me cry all over again because by this time Ella was nearing the end of her natural life really wasn't she? We should say also you didn't just have Ella by this stage

because you'd acquired a whole host of other dogs. Yes, no, not acquired. They were organised pregnancies and planned litters. Yeah, we're living in London. We eventually moved in with each other and moved to Battersea, which was close to the park because I was living in a flat with no garden with four dogs at the time. And so we moved to Battersea where we had access to the park and a little garden. And then COVID happened and we were about to buy a house, but that whole deal collapsed.

And so we ended up moving with mum and dad thinking it was going to be for a couple of weeks, a couple of months maybe. And yeah, COVID takes over much more than anyone thought. And we ended up there moving up to Scotland for four months. Remote working was working. And we go off on adventures over the weekends. And we concluded that actually maybe rather than looking for a house in London, what about looking for a house in the countryside?

And not long after that, my mother calls up to say that the house we're in now. It was just coming on the market and it could be perfect for us. It was certainly perfect for her because it was five minutes down the road. And so we actually packed up and in the time when we could travel, we travel back down and went to have a look at it and we did fall in love with it. And so we put in an offer and fortunately for us it was accepted. And in the same year that we brought the house, we then got married. and it's a 16th century farmhouse

with pretty much every single beam on the ground floor every doorway I have to duck to go through can I go and see what it looks like well we can see from yeah we can see let's see let's see where is it showing you what's that James that thing there that's a bird scorer for so we have chickens and to stop the chicken stop other birds steaming the chicken food is a spinner.

Are we going to see the chickens? There might be some... Oh, look, they're on strike. We've got to talk to their publicist. Yeah, we've got a couple of eggs. There's more in... There's one in there. Oh, there's eggs.

Hello, chicken. Hello, darling. Are the dogs okay with the chickens? Yeah, absolutely. Come on. Is that your place there, James? Yes. So that's a little boy in the go.

So lovely. Come on. Oh, these are proper birds. Can you explain the difference with these birds, James? I'm really sorry I don't understand. So these are cream leg bars. They lay pale blue and pale green eggs. And there's one here, which is, he looks like the sort of Disney version of a cockerel.

He's the cockerel. He's a lovely boy. He's... I wouldn't mess with him. He keeps his girls with him and close, and if you annoy him, he'll come after you. So he rules the route? He's in charge, definitely. How long do they live Cockrell's generally, do you think?

Will he live long? I hope so. I really like him, James. I think seven or so years, maybe a bit more. Hello Cockrell! Come on a good girl. One, two, three. We're missing one.

James, can I just say, if you ever need a dog sitter? They're often hiding underneath another one or amongst another one. Come on. We'll head down to the bees down there. Oh, James has got bees. well. Do we need suits? No, we won't go too close but we'll go close enough. You should be able to see some flying. I'm really sorry to bring this up but as I said you had to end up saying goodbye to Ella which was obviously heartbreaking and

you write so movingly about it and I think it will be really helpful to people who've ever experienced that or indeed all of us who have pets will experience it, we sort of a live in slight denial about it and we don't really have a proper grieving ritual around the loss of a pet, the way we do with humans. You know, we sort of cart it off to a vet and pretend it hasn't happened and someone suggested they'll get a new one. But these animals are companions, they're part of the family and in your case, she was the most important sort of little beating heart in your life for a long period. I was very fortunate. I was very fortunate. her passed away at 15 and that's a good innings so I knew she was going to die

of something and that time was near you know I remember for the last like four Christmases I was thinking this could be her last Christmas or you know this could be my last birthday with her that sort of thing was for on my mind since maybe she was 12-ish but no matter how prepared you think you are mentally you are for the fact that they're going to leave you is never enough to sort of help you get through that at the time when they do go and for me it was mabel had just had this litter of puppies and they're all going after their new homes and their last vaccinations and ella would come to the vets and with the pups and i just was chatting to the vet saying you know i'm not sure something up with ella i can't put my

finger on it. And he just said, you know, why do we take some blood and that will sort of lives in a little bit more about what's going on inside and, you know, see if we see something. And I, you know, he contacted me back not long after once the blood results came back and I straight away knew. I just, the way that he sounded on the phone was that it was not good news. So I, and the prognosis was that she really realistically only had a couple of weeks left. And I, although I knew that sort of comment or that day was coming, I didn't know how to process it. Heather was still looking fine.

She was still walking. She was still being herself. There was just something not quite right. And she did start to go down downhill after that. And thinking I only had a few weeks left, I was in pieces. I couldn't process it. I just didn't know what to do. But fortunately Ella lived another nearly five months on.

I was so fortunate to her that she was able to give me that extra time to be able to process it all. And I wanted to do everything with her, you know, that we love to do. So we went off the late district. We went to some of her favourite slash my favourite places in London that we used to always go together. We went, we did so many things to try and, you know, create another memory. And I remember we walked to the pub, not far from here. and it was one afternoon and I just noticed that she was starting to wobble a little bit.

She was not as steady on her feet and I picked her up and started carrying her and I was had her over my shoulders and and Alizio says to me, James, turn around and turn around and she gets out her phone and takes a picture. It's now the front cover of my book. but what you can't tell in that photo is that I've actually got tears in my eyes because it was that sort of sense that she was you know this was her body failing she she was this war that she's done hundreds of times is now she can't really do anymore and it's probably going to be the last time that she does that and and then this sort of realization that she had carried me throughout her whole life and then this last sort of

the last moments that she's sort of asking me to carry her. And so all those little things that we just used to do every day, they were slowly becoming the last time we'll do that together. And that was hard, but I think I felt this sense of, all I could keep on saying was thank you to her. I was because everything I was had now and at that time was because of her. The fact that I refound myself and living happily married was just incredible. And I remember thinking, I wish that our future child or children would have had an opportunity to meet her. And that's when I started writing a lot of things down. But it was actually.

a week after, just over a week after she passed away, that we actually found out that my wife was pregnant. And I was in floods of tears with all the emotions with what that instills, but a lot of it because Ella was so close, yet would never have an opportunity to meet him. But then Elizze says, well, actually, of course she's met him. Like, if dogs can sniff out cancer, low blood sugar, you know, the amazing things that dogs can do nowadays.

Not nowadays that they can do that we're only just beginning to sort of to utilize and enhance. She would have known that Elishe was pregnant. Hormonal difference and changes. And a few things were making sense. She was spending a lot more time with Elise than she used to because she was always with me. But actually she was, and so she'd met in a go before we. even knew Inigo was was going to be in a go. I think that was my last little thing of she's she didn't give me that she didn't give

us in a go but she gave me that that perfect timing of being able to say goodbye and you know the night that she left was the morning of I knew there's that fine line between you know allowing a dog to die but equally not suffering and I was speaking to the vet regularly and we agreed that you know it was maybe sort of the right time so he said let's wait till the following morning and he was going to come over and um maybe she even knew that or sensed that and she had held on and and I've got this wonderful photo of her sat on her bed I was having to carry her in and out And all the dogs are sat there. Ila, who was still a little puppy at the time,

her head resting on Ella's. And she looks in her eyes and she looks peaceful. She looks relaxed. So that night, knowing it would be her last, I stayed up with her. I wanted to cuddle her all night. So I stayed downstairs and her breathing got slower and I noticed that she was changing.

And this dog that would normally fight was dying. And it was a huge mix of emotions because I was going back to that very first day of picking her up in the kitchen at eight weeks old. And then that whole journey that we had gone through from, you know, that I've gone through with her from university. You know, the most transformative years of my life. Sorry, Jason. It's making me cry. been with this special, special girl and I couldn't, I couldn't believe how much we had done together. And I was just saying to her, it's okay, you can go. You know, I don't need any more

from you. You've given me everything, every single inch of your being. And it's okay to go. I'll be okay. You've set me off on the right path. Elizzo will look after me. You know, the rest of the other dogs have you know you've ingrained your spirit and your will in them so you'll live on and and she did she took a last breath and i she breathed in and never breathed out um and i waited and i waited and she had gone and and that was an amazing feeling or experience I can't, you know, she changed almost immediately. Something left her. So she was there in physical sense, but not in a Ella had left.

How I knew Ella. You know, once her eyes had gone and they weren't to open again. And so, you know, the emotions are huge at the time. And then it's then that I sort of want to start writing about. I wanted to make sure I remembered all of these things that I was going there in my mind and never wanted to forget them. And then that week later to find out that Liseo was pregnant was just another sort of like wave of emotions. But it was sort of in that point that I said to, you know, I wanted to write everything for Inigo so that Inigo knew who this dog was that introduced me to his mother and the reason for him being. alive today is all thanks to this dog.

So I was... And the reason in some ways that you're still here today, James. And very much the reason I'm still here today. And you know what? Imagine what Ella would think of us now, two grown adults sitting here crying in a field because of her. But what an incredible legacy to still be, you know, remembered and thought of in that way. And I think the thing is that everybody has their own Ella in their love.

in their lives. Ella was, she was everything that I needed her to be. Yeah. And, and more. And I'll never have another Ella,

and I don't want to have another Ella. I have other dogs that are not replicas of Ella. They're just, they, they do something different. I won't have another dog that will change my life as much as Ella has done. For sure.

But my dogs are no more special than anybody else's. I think, you know, we just have to allow them like we're learning with all the things that they can do. Embrace them. I've got a question to ask you, James, and it's a difficult one

to answer, but I am really worried about Raymond. Like, I can't hear you talk like, oh my God, I can't imagine. I have nightmares about it. Do you think it's if you're able to lifestyle-wise, it is

a good idea to get another dog or other dogs. When you've had a dog, I suppose specifically in your situation, and as it was with me, he was sort of a grief support dog in some ways when I lost my family. And people have said to me, well, what he represents is so huge that the loss of him becomes more than just the loss of him. Well, that's how I understand that, because I think for me, the writing,

the loss of Ella wasn't just the loss of Ella, the dog. Ella, the dog. It was what she represented. All the things that we're, you know, her transforming my life, saving my life, putting me on that right path. It was also the closure or the ending of that segment of my life. Yeah. My advice is I would encourage anybody to have another dog.

You know, and I don't think that means that Raymond would be any less loved or be displaced or be felt, you know, like he's being replaced. There's only one Raymond, there's only one Ella. Each dog has their own character and they learn to adapt and, you know, in a lot of scenarios I've seen when somebody's has got another dog, you know, has got an elderly dog and another dog joins in, actually that elderly dog becomes younger because they get a new lease of life. They're not, you know, they, it unlocks another bit of them that, you know, was always there. It's just a format of unlocking it.

It's like when the old men have the midlife crisis and they get the young girl. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if I agree with that one, but maybe. Come on. And losing a dog, you'll never just get another dog to replace another dog. It's a very different, very different experience. We should say Ella is buried here on this. harm somewhere, isn't she? Which I love. Yes and no. She's actually...

Ella's actually buried up my parents with my other dogs that are buried up there. So we have a lovely little cemetery. Ella has spent a large amount of her life there and I want her to be company with the other dogs. James, do you know what? What a thoroughly nice individual you are.

Well, thank you. How do you find out handle compliments? Are you to get a bit embarrassed by them? I wouldn't say, I don't know how you respond to them. My parents have done a good job, maybe. I feel like they have taught me well in terms of empathy. I think you've also done a lot of hard work on yourself. I have learned to be confident in my own skin and understand and what makes me happy.

Dogs certainly make me happy. So I put myself in that format where I look to do things that make me and dogs happy. How are you at saying no to things? I'm getting better. Are you? It's a difficult thing to... Hey look, here look.

I have a load of these bait hives. I call it all they're called bait hives. They're one. wild beehives, which if there's a swarm from my bees that go out, it makes a new home for them. A bees more benign than wasps generally? The difference with wasps and bees is that bees have a barb on the end of their stinger. And so when a bee stings, it is the end of their life. Whereas a wasp can sting multiple times.

So a bee has to be really concerned or worried or threatened to activate that stinging instinct because it will ultimately kill them. Bye bees. I love those bees. These bees were hoot. That's a healy. That might be, that might. Oh, God. That's a Chinook.

So, James, can I tell you something? Bye-bye, Chinook. In your book, you mentioned the Queen. briefly and I think it's a really lovely tribute to her. She comes across as such a lovely sort of generous woman and I love just in terms of you bonded with her a bit over your relationship with dogs and she allowed you, I think you brought Ella up didn't you to stay. Yes, I was fortunate enough to have spent a bit of time with the late majesty and I, you know, was very grateful for that time to spend with such an incredible person.

and fortunately was allowed to bring Ella along with me and I think the fantastic thing about dogs is they are I don't care who you are, what you do. Which is why she loved them so much, maybe. I think, but they also, you know, in any scenario, they're conversation breakers. You know, you can be walking in a park in London or in a mountain in Cumberer and the dogs will initiate a conversation of people that would presumably have just walked by each other, barely acknowledging each other,

whereas dogs are that excuse to stop and have a chat or to say hi, whether you have a dog or not, they initiate a conversation, and that's fantastic. And Ella went walkabout, didn't she? She ended up in the royal kitchens. And the Queen found such a classy way of letting you know that she knew about this, didn't she? she nothing nothing escaped her no I thought we got away with it or she Ella got away with it but turns out nope I went into she's tilly Tilly's had a bit of surgery can I just say Tilly is not a supermodel tilly is a tractor yes

the Tilly's had a little bit of surgery she blew her head gasket working this summer on the hay and so was this the tractor that I was given for my 18th 30th So we should say most 18-year-old boys, and their dad says to them, what do you want for your birthday, they will generally say a car. In fact, you were given that option. Not James Middleton. He wanted a dilapidated old tractor, which he called Tilly. Oh, Tim's so cool. Isn't that amazing?

Oh, I love your tractor. And I don't find myself saying that to people very often. I have to say. Well, one day it will be in a go. And, well, I've learned a lot from, you know, as I was rebuilding my life, I also rebuilt Tilly. Wow. And... It's beautiful.

These are the guinea fowl. I mean, there's just a never-ending supply of animals here. Isn't there? Guinea fow, bees, cockcrawls, dog. sheep? And hopefully we'll get some cows next year. That's the dream. What's that noise?

What noise? I don't know. Oh, it might be my boots. It's just squeaky boots. It's quite warm day and I underestimated how warm it's going to be. And my feet have got a bit hot in wellies. So it's actually, I think them just squeaking from the inside because they got a bit hot. I can exclusively reveal James Middleton has squeaky feet.

But apart from that, He's great. Do you find James, because one thing I love about dogs is, and since getting a dog I've really loved, is just they're very good socially. Like if I'm going to something and I'm feeling in a slightly introverted mood or I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and I don't really want to go up and make conversation with people, they're a great social ramp. people come to you and the conversation always starts on a very positive level they certainly break the ice in a way

that not many other conversations can break the ice because you know you can make eye contact with a dog you don't have to make it with an individual you can get down to the dog's level and start chatting but I think also they're an excuse to you know if you're not comfortable in an environment you can say no one's going to argue by saying I've got to take the dog out

i.e it's in the dog's best interest if I you know they need to go out for her to the loo or I haven't fed them that I need to get back so there that ability to take your way take you away from something that you're not perhaps comfortable in and and I certainly had that with Ella where she was my reason to be able to escape but without having to reveal it's actually me that was wanting escape and the conversation starters are you know you you can go walk the same route to work

a hundred times and not smile at anybody. You have a dog, pretty much smile at everyone. Well, everyone will smile at you because they want to say hi to the dog. And there's no pressure in, you know, my favourite subject is dogs. So if someone's willing to talk to me about dogs, then I'm absolutely delighted to engage in a conversation with them. And I want to also mention, you know, you have, again as a result of Ella, you've started your very own dog food company. Called James and Ella.

Now I think I learnt while I was in depression, I recognised how much my dogs were giving me, and particularly Ella, and I wanted to give back to them. And when you really look at how best you can give back to a dog, well, it's all about the, starts with their diet. And I think when I did the research into the food that I was feeding at the time, I was slightly horrified by it. I was conned into really good marketing and branding more so than I was into perhaps what was really good for her. And so I started to make my own food.

And then I developed, well I found this process called freeze drying where it keeps something raw, but room temperature stable. Do you remember in chemistry learning about when something goes from a solid to a gas, missing out the liquid phase, called sublimation. So it's a process called sublimation that removes water without using heat. So from a microbiological level, it's still class as raw, but it's room temperature stable. And then it's one of those wonderful things I started to feed the dogs. I saw huge difference in their skin, code activity levels. And people started to ask me, what are you feeding? Can I have some?

And then it got to the size where I was making enough to then figure, okay, I need to set up a proper kitchen. We're going to need a bigger boat. Yeah. And so I started to make it. And then that was sort of how I went on the path of doing what I'm doing now, which is dog food. So.

Well, I'm going to report back. I think Ray is going to be. all over it. I love feedback. Do you want raise review? Please do. So we're going to have to leave you because I frankly want to move in. But you've got enough on your plate here with 50,000 dogs, 72,000 hens and 200,000 bees.

And we haven't even started on the sheet. But after this journey you've been through and it really was a journey, what a beautiful idyllic life you've created. for yourself and your family here? I'm really lucky, you know, I've got a very supportive family and now a family of my own with Elise. And we share the same passion and drive for what we want an environment to grow our family, build our family and for Inigo to grow up in.

And so, we both work hard and we both put a lot of time and effort into the things that we enjoy. And we get pleasures from the... from the small things in life and so for us you know a lovely weekend for us is putting in a rucksack the dogs on the lead and going for a walk and that's that costs nothing you know the the enjoyment that you get from that is is is free James can I tell you what else you've done what else today is done it sold me on you I'm a big J-Midi fan now Thank you.

Can I tell you what else it's really sold me on? The Spaniel. Don't be deceived. One Spaniel is as much work as two Golden Retrievers. Oh, I'm just, I get it. They're small but mighty. But I wouldn't want them any other way. I love them so much, their energy, their character.

And yes, Golden Retrievers too. I love. Can you smell them now, by the way? They've dried up a bit. I can smell it from here. What, do they smell of fond? James, it's been so lovely chatting to you. I'm sorry you didn't get to meet Raymond,

but you are going to meet him soon, and I can't wait for that. I want to say, congratulations on writing that book. I really honestly cannot recommend it enough. It's so kind of heartbreaking, but also really uplifting. Thank you.

I honestly urge people to go and get it immediately because it's a beautiful brilliant book. All right then. Well, we're going to love with you and leave you. Am I allowed to hug you? Of course. Why not? Thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Did you enjoy it, Jamie D? I did. No, I did. It's sort of, I love the concept of going on a walk and chatting. Bye, James. Bye. Now, we're going to have to do a bit of a sound of music like the Von Traps. and say goodbye to all of these dogs.

Girls, hub, Mabel, Ayla, girls, hop, hop, hup. Lulu. Good girls. I love you all. Hey, baby. She doesn't want you to go. Do you think they know I'm going? It's okay, I'm moving in.

I really hope you enjoyed that. episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed and do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.