Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Jamie Demetriou

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

This week Emily goes for a walk with comedy actor and writer Jamie Demetriou. They chat about his childhood with his Greek Cypriot dad, wanting to perform from a young age and the award-winning Stath Lets Flats. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You know when you're walking down the street and you see something mad, like a guy who's using a kind of whole tree branch as a walking stick or something, more often than not, I'd get closer to it and realise it was my dad. Like, what? Is there ever going to be an instance where I see a lunatic and it doesn't turn out to be you? This week on Walking the Dog, I went for a stroll with the award-winning comedy actor and writer Jamie Dimitru. Jamie recently won three BAFTAs for his hugely successful Channel 4 sitcom, Stafflet's Flats. which charts the misadventures of a fabulous Leonette,

but kind of immensely lovable Lessing's agent. And you'll also probably know Jamie for his very memorable appearance in Fleabag. We met in East London for our walk with my dog Raymond, and Jamie fell hopelessly in love with Ray at first sight. I think he might have even said at one point, look at the way he drinks water. Jamie struck me as very humble and sweet nature, despite all this showbiz fanfare currently around him.

And I got the sense that was partly down to this quite strong, sense of family he has, his sister Natasha co-stars in his show, which is essentially all an affectionate nod to his experiences growing up with his Greek Cypriot dad. We talked a lot about his childhood and wanting to perform from a very young age, how he gets his comic inspiration, as well as coping with pressure and the benefits of therapy. Jamie's a lovely person to spend the afternoon with, and how many triple BAFTA winners do you know that offer to pick up poo? I loved our walk and I really hope you do too. I'll shut up now. I'll shut up now. so you can listen to Jamie yourself.

Please remember to rate review and subscribe if you liked it. Here's Jamie and Ray Ray. How old? I don't think that's any of your business, Jamie. I'm a woman who's... I've been around a while. We're both aware I'm a bit old. No, Ray is four in December.

Right. Are we recording, by the way? Oh, right. Yeah, keep it quite casual. No, I'm asking if we're recording is the most casual there is. I mean, I hate to say it and I mean it positively, but your dog is a barbershop floor. If I was to, if I was just passing, I'd be like, why are people having their haircut in the street?

And then why are people walking that person's haircut? That to me is... Jamie, can you look at how the size of his wee? Oh my god, you'd think that a wee monster was crying and it was one of its tears. It's just, well, it's... Well, assuming the weird monster is like one millimeter tall. We all would love to. Yay.

Thanks for saying that about the show. Thank you. Oh, he was sweet. Yeah, that's so. I never know what to do. So I'm very excited today because I'm a huge fan of this man's. And the train's about to go past, just to ruin my info, which is the only bit where I get formal. This is walking the dog. the dog and I'm with a very wonderful Jamie Dmitriou.

Did I say that right? You say it properly, Demetriu. You just, you nailed it, yeah. Are you sure? Yeah. You sound quite polite. No, to deviate from that would be to get it wrong. I think if you were to do one sort of, one letter or, I don't know, I don't know if there's intonation in my name, but I think you just did it exactly as I would. And do you want to talk us through, we're in your manner, Jamie? Well, it's my manner as of about six years. We're in London fields, the much besmirched London fields throughout lockdown.

I mean, I wasn't in London for most of, well, for all of lockdown, actually. Why was her? Well, so I was in America about two weeks before lockdown. And it was around the time that COVID had sort of been seen as a bit of a joke. really taking it seriously here as I was neither was I so I went out to I was in LA and and every kind of meeting I had people were taking it more and more seriously as the sort of days went on sort of people like running a mile if you went to shake their hand or or kind of at dinner being like this is serious so by the time I came back to flew back to London I oh yes please

can we just point out that was a dog Jamie said that too not oh yeah yeah yeah yeah half a different Oh, Jesus, please. Oh, I think he's interested in my dog. Oh, that is a coat and a half. Again, dog. That's the play position. I love that. Roe Ray. Are you going to come this way?

Do you want to take the leaves? Did Ray drink in the end? Yes, he did. Several doggies. One muzzle, of course. As far as dogs are concerned, I'm kind of new to the team. A lot of be of sausage dogs. Sausage dogs in this area?

Yes, indeed. Cute. Yeah, chocolate as well. My friend had a sausage dog called tofu when I was growing up. It was one of the first dogs I was kind of introduced to. And I think it was around the time my parents got dogs for the first time, which was when I was about 26, they got two beach on freezers. Yeah.

Who? Look. You know, you have some friends from, say, school or work, or work from a long time ago that you might bump into in the street. And you're like, oh, hey, how are you? And then you realize you never really knew them. That's kind of how I feel about my parents' dogs. I don't really like, there are dogs that I love, but I love them in a way,

but we sort of have nothing, we have no memories to share. It's sort of like, do you remember when I was in one room and you were in the other one? Because you don't have a dog I don't I was actually taking my girlfriend's dog for a walk yesterday Jack Russell called Daisy who I'm

who sort of saved me during lockdown as did her sort of adopted brother Dougal who's a cockapoo So your girlfriend's a dog fan Does that mean Do you think you might get one?

It's kind of It's difficult with your work Isn't it? Is she in the same business? Does she travel or she? She doesn't travel no She is in food and food photography and things like that. You don't want to walk.

You just want to observe that leaf for a second, I understand. Sometimes he does this, Jamie. He just stands there. Can I ask you something? Yes, please. I'll try not to do this too often, but staff lets flat, your character, who, well, I'm not the only one obsessed by him, we all are.

Can you give us, how would he react to Ray, do you think? Um, I mean, I think that he's... He, him with animals is sort of like, his head sort of goes triangle. He doesn't really know what to do. What is he? It's sort of, I don't know. And what, and is it, and it's not definitely just hair.

There is sort of body in between the hair, is there? And in among, so it's not, because from what I can see, we're sort of looking at kind of hair with a nose. And don't get me wrong, I've known some people who, my uncle's sort of not far off hair. He doesn't really have a nose. Well, he does. He's just not very good at smelling things.

Something like that, maybe. Oh, Ray. He's comfortable with his emotions, isn't he? Right, yeah. But I actually think that that's the, that's, you've sort of uncovered the whole foundation of the reason for doing it was kind of like a wide boy who is broody and is sort of quite happy to let you know exactly oh we've got a frozen doggy right i'm going to pick you up because you're being

very silly well i want to get on to this character because obviously and we will um who's won you this hall of baffters and i want to start with your childhood though okay big Why do you get it? Why do you say it like that? I just think the whole, I don't know, I think I'm always slightly taken aback by the idea of someone, a sort of smart person wanting to talk to me and record it full stop. Let alone, there alone delving into a sort of, I don't know, the background, but I'm very up for it if you want to know. Well, I know you grew up in North London. Is that where you were born in...

I was born... Barnet? I was born in Great Missenden. And then I think I moved to Friam Barnett, sort of North Finchley Free and Barnet when I was like... Like 0.1 months old. My dad's a chef. but he had me quite old.

He was nearly 50. And yeah, nearly 50. And he'd sort of done most of his chefing years by that point. So when I was little, he was kind of, he worked in a restaurant in Crouch End for a few years. My memories of it are a lot of kind of just sort of calamari smell knocking me out. Is it true? that George Michael worked for your dad briefly.

I mean, we were watching TV, and George Michael came up. And I don't really know what a lot of my dad's opinions are on pop culture, other than... Denzel Washington, fantastic actor. And you go, what film of us do you like? The one way he performs as an actor. But George Michael. So George Michael was on TV, and my dad went, ugh.

And I was like, oh, there's an opinion. Do you not like George Michael? Because, you know, Greek people tend to love any sort of Greek success story. And he was like, always bloody singing and winging when he's washing the dishes. And I was like, well, that's an astute guess observation. Why do you think that? And he was like, because he used to do it. Because he used to wash dishes in my dad's kitchen.

And my dad saw him on TV singing and didn't think to go, he used to work for me. He just, he just, I don't even think he acknowledged that he was famous. He was just like, oh, that guy who washes dishes badly is on telly again. And did your mum work at all? Was she a homemaker or what was that? My mum had a plethora of jobs, whatever she could squeeze in to try and make some money while she was looking after us. We were quite needy. She was a children's entertainer.

Was she? She was a nanny. She did a course learning how to be a, reflexologist and then of course I have to be a reflexology teacher. All that might be in the same course, I'm not sure. So she was a masseuse. She sort of did a bit of everything. She used to be a clown at my parties and then sort of my friends parties.

So I'm like, what the hell are you doing? How did you feel about that? Are you embarrassed? No, I loved it. Did you love it? Loved it. She was, she was, I mean, yeah, she was so great. She was the mum that everyone wanted to be the chaperin on school trips and stuff.

She's got a very sort of childlike energy. She loves sort of, she loves looking off to kids. She loves dogs, she loves, just sort of, she said she loves innocence. She just can't be bothered to be sort of arguing with people. And do you think that's interesting that she was sort of, you know, those people that sort of fill the space in a room and make it, I fill it with a nice fun energy for people. I wonder if that's, you know, you and your sister are obviously performers.

Do you think that comes from her? Or do you think that's just something you're born with? I mean, my mum says that she wanted to act when she was younger, but she's also very like, oh, you know, she's like, but, you know, whatever was meant to be, bead. And then my dad's got an amazing singing voice and he's kind of a natural storyteller, even though stories don't necessarily tend to make sense.

They have a lot of life and energy to them. But I think that it's funny thinking about being a performer, I suppose comedy has sort of become, I always wanted to be an actor growing up. Did you? Yeah, from the age of like five, my mum said she heard me crying in the back of the car and asked what was wrong.

And I said, I just want to be an actor at five. I think it's, I mean, that is a first world problem, not getting apart when you're five. But I think ultimately, me and Tash, you know, obviously have to occasionally sort of go, why, I call TACC, a lot of people call TASH. Like, why the hell, why did we both end up doing this? What, like, what was it that made that be the case? And I think we were both just constantly sort of trying to, I don't know, put words to observations and trying to kind of articulate why things were funny to each other. the whole time. So you and your sister, is it just the two of you? Yes, yeah. My dad had three

children in a previous marriage, but he got married very young. I think he was married about 18 and I think he had three kids by the time he was 21, 22. Really? Yeah. He has a mad story, but he, so yeah, me and Tash are, Tash is my only first sibling, yeah. I mean we, we, I think it was just sort of there was so much to observe there was so much sort of weirdness occurring that I kind of think I'd call it a coping mechanism

but that sort of implies there was like dangers afoot it was like it was just like it was like okay let's it was just a way of kind of processing everything you know my dad's from like a completely different world has had a very surreal life and as a result this exuberant

quite a specific character has emerged. And he, you know, I mean, he's nearly 80. He moved to the UK. Yeah, he moved to the UK kind of against, almost against his will when he was like 12. And he still has a thicker Greek accent than most people I know who live in Cyprus. I mean, he hasn't shaken it. And he was 12 when he came here. Why do you think that is?

I think it's because kitchens and chefs, you know, especially around the time he became a chef, which basically was as soon as he arrived, or like he'd washed dishes. Hello. Hello. This is a cute one, Jamie, isn't it? Yes, indeed.

You just said just now, well, you know, that your sister and you were sort of exposed to kind of colorful characters. I suppose. But you know, I would say a lot of people are, but they don't see that as material. They don't store that away as material. Perhaps. Yeah, that's a good point. I don't know. If I'm completely honest, I think the reason it's kind of difficult to introspect about or analysed is that we weren't sort of in kind of like a writer's room then being like, Right, okay, let's nail these things. We were just, I mean, as most people do, like you say, most people will see something mad, observe it, discuss it, laugh about it.

You know, I think I can honestly say hand on heart that I, the idea of ever being able to do what I'm doing now professionally, I mean, it was beyond possibility. Like it really, really. Yeah, I just, I never knew. I never knew anyone. Did you know actors or performers? Absolutely not. It took me going to, I went to Bristol University, fluked, like through an administrative error I shouldn't have got in.

But I went there and it took me going there to learn that the National Youth Theatre in London even existed. I didn't even like people were like, so you like, NYT, you're like, how, like, how has your sort of, how have you tried to push your career? I was like, I sang a song at Christmas to my family. No, I actually, I was a member of Chicken Shed Theatre Company growing up. When you were a kid. But that, you know, that wasn't, that was a kind of, you know, that was more like life lessons. My dad sort of like, you know, it's not his responsibility to know.

Neither is it my mum's, I think, to know, like, right, this is, you know, he's had a really hard life. It's like, why is it his responsibility to be like, hang on, my son just said he wants to act. My daughter just said she wants to act. how can I get them into the West End? It's like it's hard. It's like it's near impossible. He's got enough stuff to work out. He's working a million hours a day.

But it just so happened that a few people were having dinner at his restaurant and they mentioned that they were starting a kind of mini theatre company where kids could come once a week and join. He was like, oh, my son, my daughter wants to, blah, blah, blah. And we ended up going there and I was there for 15 years. But that said, it never occurred to me. that it could actually be a career. I mean, you can dream.

And I'd probably say it, be like, I'm going to be an actor when I've got hair on my chin. But I never believed it at all. I mean, I'm still kind of like squinting. Were you funny, though, Jamie as a kid? Do people always say, oh, Jamie, you know, you know how people stand out is the funny one in a group of friends? Was that your role, would you say,

with your mates growing up? Maybe not. Maybe not. I definitely wanted to be. I don't know. I was definitely, me and my sister's party trick, as it appears to still be today, is telling stories about my dad. And we do the voices and stuff like that. And I think people generally into that. Actually, in my year six school play, I played one of the dinner ladies from our school, Mrs Evans. And I remember that actually, you know, that being the earliest iteration of a kind of tight ten.

The closest I came to a sort of slick five down at a working men's club. You know, I sort of was wearing a rainbow-colored wig and I did a Scottish accent. Quite broad. Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, it wasn't the niche punk shit that I get down with these. days but it ticked a box. You know I was trying to appeal to the masses. I was like, I want your parents to like this. I want your parents to like this. Yeah. I want the man in the

street to be able to clock this through the window and say, I've enjoyed my evening. But yeah, I think that's the earliest memory I have of being like, oh, that went down quite well. Yeah. But comedy wasn't like, I always just knew I wanted to, I think I just didn't, I just wasn't. I just that aware of what my options were so I was just like acting please one ticket to the acting I wanted to go to drama school didn't really even know what that meant I just had heard people say it really yeah I auditioned for two years but we you know I didn't really was this after Bristol pre yeah yeah as soon as I left so I did a I did a I'll try and tell the quickest version of this this is at school after after school and which was school this was in

Barnet was it in Compton, didn't go to college. I went to Chicken Shed started running a BTX national diploma and I was like, I just go to Chicken Shed full time for a couple of years. Great, which I did do. And it was full on.

It was like, you know, I do like 60 shows at Christmas of this show they did. And then the plan was always to go to drama school afterwards, but I was so ill-equipped. Like, I didn't know anything about classics or kind of you know or even like contemporary theatre I hadn't really been to the theatre that much but when I found out how much it cost to audition for drama schools I was like oh my god I'm going to have to take a gap year to work to pay for the auditions which I did

and didn't get a call back anywhere and so did another gap year working to pay for the auditions Because, you know, at the time, they were like 50 pounds in audition, which, you know, my parents gave me a bit towards, but ultimately that's a lot, you know, that was a lot of money for us. And were they sort of supportive? I'm presumed they were, but were they thinking, do you think if you hadn't have been successful, relatively young, which you have been,

do you think there would have been a point where they'd have said, come on, this is getting... Definitely, but they would have been right to if it hadn't, you know. My dad was... My dad was just sort of panic suggesting career pods for me to begin with. Electricity. Is that a job? But he, because he was just like, you know, he would go to his cafe where he played cars and they'd go, oh my son wants to do the acting and they go, he's going to die. don't you can't make him if he's acting as dead is you're going to get a disease like just like people

were like you can't and so he just panicked for me but at the same time he also wanted to kind of nurture so he was sort of i mean now he can't get enough of it does he like the fact that you're successful isn't that sweet yeah he's very i mean he half gets it i think he knows it's he knows it's thumbs up not thumbs down and that's enough for him it's like and it's good he calls me Tash, my sister was saying to me the other day that she's like, I've just realized, you know, anytime dad calls me and he says, got any good news for me? She's like, I could have just been saying yes every year and just every time he called. Because usually we're just like literally nothing new.

It's been one day and blah, blah, blah. And she's like, he doesn't need to know the fact. He just needs to know that the news is good. She could go, yeah, I just got a bin. And he go, oh, you're kidding. When? When? What time?

Do you have to read? Can I see it? Send you around some photos. He just wants to know that all's good. But, you know, like, I mean, so, as you mentioned, I was very lucky to have some award success recently. And my mom said that he, like, nearly hit the roof. He was so, they watched it on telly. as did I because there was no ceremony.

That was weird. Yeah. And she said that he was like, I've got to call everyone. I've got to call everyone afterwards. And she was like, okay, and she went, all right, I'll leave you to it. And then she came back in and she was like, do you want me to write down what's happened so that when you tell people you know. So she left him to kind of call relatives and whatever.

But she left him like a piece of paper being like, you know, the name. movie awards, how many of the world, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said he came back, she came back into the room, papers just screwed up on the floor and he's been like, and he went to, he's now living in the age of the Hollywood time. Well, not that, but that sort of stuff. Just like whatever's sort of comes to his, whatever comes to his head. So, I mean, I don't want to, I feel like I'm the greyhound racing to get out of the gates, wanting to make that connection. into staff flats. You leave drama school.

Well, I didn't go to drama school. Oh, you didn't? You went to Bristol. Well, my sister persuaded when I was auditioning for the second time. I mean, thank you for thinking I went to drama school. I did. Do you know, but you are very technical. Physical comedy seems a big part of what you do, I think. Would you not?

I think I stumbled into that being the case, maybe, yeah. I definitely have an inherent lack of coordination, and I think I just lean into it. I'm a very wobbly boy and I kind of think I've been like well I'm rubbish at sports I've really I'm like bad at computer games I'm sort of bad at like a lot of stereotypically

masculine stuff like that and I think that I was like right I've got to make a virtue of sort of having a horrible running style and just be like that's just okay I'm gonna call I'm gonna call that out

before you can take the mick out of me for it I'm just going to be that kind of thing. You look like you would be the good looking guy in the class who... You're looking a bit shocked. You look like you would be... I'm just getting ready to correct you. Really? Is that not your... No, I don't think so.

I don't know. It's important... How could I imagine if I agreed? Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah, no, I was a catch. I am a catch. Oh, really? Yeah, I'm sure you...

I like asking people. Because I just think it's interesting. Do you think you're good looking? I mean, there's a war zone going on in my head, working out how to answer that question. Do I think I'm... I probably think I'm... I think with regards to that,

I'm probably a glass half empty and full of too much Greek hair. You can't drink that water. Yeah, I don't know. It is an interesting question to be asked, actually. Because why shouldn't I be able to answer that? That's, you know, I think that... Well, I think increasingly women are encouraged to be positive

about how they view themselves aesthetically. And I just don't see why men shouldn't be either, I suppose. Yeah, that's so interesting. I think we're probably divided up into two categories. Those guys like, yeah, no, that's the thing. I'm a catch. looking bloat you know what i mean like that's the thing that's why i got tats because it's like i want more of what's already there like how can i add to this how can i draw attention to this

whereas i don't look i'm not being like no i'm a monster i mean i probably i don't know i have no idea what i think in that sense it probably changes day to day it's whatever i last saw when i looked in the mirror and i think when i looked in the mirror today i thought oh my god i ate too much during lockdown. Because do you know what funnily enough for staff and talking physical comedy when I because I mean you know you talk about the period pre and I hope you can hear the waft of my quotation fingers on the podcast here before I was famous. Yeah you look very long when I said that. I said I'm afraid we have to do a boring bit before you're famous and you looked really panicked as if I think it was almost like oh I don't

want people to think I think that of myself. Yeah I mean that's that's I. I'm I mean, you're getting to the core of me, Emily. I don't, but not, I think that you're right. It's more, it's less, I don't want, I don't want to be that. Because I, I don't mind being anything as long as the, the, the work is like, I suppose. Yeah. Like, as long, you know, everything's, as long as it's for the right reasons, et cetera. But yeah, I mean, building, building up to making the show was a long, long,

time. I mean, I got the, we made a short for it when I was 24. That was just like a little online thing. And Channel 4 gave me a script commission to write it. And I'm like, oh my God. I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to buy a house. It was like, it took about five, six years before it was commissioned for a series. And I was rewriting that pilot for all that time. In the meantime, sort of doing acting jobs and things like that. But by the time it came around to actually making it, I mean, I wrapped on series one when I was 30. So it was a long time. But by the time it came around to writing it, I was like, oh my God, we're actually going to have to put this on camera. I need to work out how I want to look. And I'd been writing and just eating stuff for six years. I was like,

how do I want this character to actually look? And it was about, I sort of had this sort of about nine weeks before shooting. And I was like, I sort of want him when he trips over and does the physical comedy stuff to kind of look like just like someone chucking a pile of bones into a room. So the character that you play, Jamie, Staff, who will describe in more detail.

But something he does is he has a curious vernacular, doesn't he? And I describe it, I'm going to ask how you describe it. But I tell you how I describe it. When you tell me about your dad, I think he was from an older generation where you learnt English from an even older generation and from newsreels and in quite a formal way. I think that that's probably half of the DNA

and the other half is, I suppose, it's just, I kind of think that a big part, a lot of people, when people ask me about the language and stuff like that, I think I owe a lot of it to kind of reality TV. and people I went to school with and yeah I think that there's a desperate

climb that people have to try and sound from another world kind of thing from like a sort of more moneyed background and they'll either take one word I mean I was definitely you know I can do it because I was probably this person for a long time I probably still am

they'll hear like a word like accomplished and be like right that's my word for the year and I'm going to apply that to anything good. So this cereal is actually very exquisite, accomplished and deliberate. Or, you know, so using things in the wrong way, but then, but also it's like, you know, when you see those like talking heads in the first episode of any series of The Apprentice, it's like, you know, people really, they don't really question whether or not it's right. they just sort of go head first into it, you know.

It's like, I'm going to give you a deal that you try to refuse, and I guarantee we're losing and refusing, and you're cruising out of the tube station. And like, but most people around, apart from the cameraman who's like that, what is he talking about? Most of the people around are going like, very good. Wow, all those words rhyme. I wish I'd said that.

Exactly, like, man, I need to work one out. It's kind of like films, it's films and TV. It's like what, like my dad, a lot of the stuff my dad picks up, like, I remember me and my sister finding it hilarious growing up when he started adding man to things at the end, like with a little sort of cool nod. Like, hey, Jamie, man, we're going out today, man. Where did you get that? And it's like he's probably heard someone say it on like a cop drama.

Like, like, yeah, listen man, I know you're stealing kind of thing. It's like, ah, I like the way this fits in my mouth too kind of thing. And like, you know, even like in arguments and stuff, it's like people can be sort of lost in like a whirlwind of fury and still be like, cut the shit, all right? You know what you've been doing. And you've been doing it to me, my whole life. I love things like that, things like adding like my whole life or like, Or like just putting, one of my favorite things is putting tonight at the end of stuff. Just to sort of make it seem like cool in American.

Me and my friend Andrew have this list of like stuff that you add to kind of make things cool. It's like Coca-Cola at the end of things or like sneakers or New York City or kind of, I don't know. Well, it's also that idea of like when you go on holiday and you see in the market, there are those t-shirts and it's like New York City 1989 or something with a star and you're like why did he pick that year

because you thought someone would think hey that's what I want as a brand is the concept of being in New York City in 1989 Oh yeah totally Keep rolling L.A. or something Keep rolling L.A. Are they suggesting L.A. should keep rolling

or is it just like they're telling you where the keep rolling is taking place? True stars. True stars. Oh my god, you should be a costume designer. You know, you talk about it like I got this commission. That must have been, you were acting a lot and you were doing very well, weren't you? Because you went to Edinburgh initially with a review show and you got great reviews, didn't you? At uni, we were sort of, we did like, I did a sketch show a year.

I didn't know what Edinburgh was when I went up to Bristol and I got asked. I was like, do you want to come to Edinburgh this summer? I was like, what, for a month? To do what? They were like comedy. I was like, why don't we do it not on summer holidays? I like to relax on my summer holidays. And then I ended up going to Edinburgh for three years

with a student sketch troupe, really getting into it and meeting some of the funniest people in the world. I mean, Ellie White, who's also in staff, she plays Katia and she's my sister's double-act partner now, actually. Now has been forever. We were in a sketch troupe together. with Charlotte Ritchie, who's also in Sassi, who plays Harriet in episode three of series two,

and a few other pals. Just like loads of people who it was like, oh my God, I love what you do in a way I can't even describe. It's like that, you know, like your favourite show when you're little. What were yours? Like, you know, things like South Park,

The Simpsons, friends, you know, things that were like, everyone come to the couch now or you're going to jail kind of thing. It was like, it's just a fact that we're watching this and it's perfect. It's like I started to realize that those people at the fringe were my equivalent of that as I got older. You know, Tim Key, who I listened to your episode, was an absolute hero of mine. You know, so many people who are in staff, actually. The cast is basically made up of people I saw at the fringe in 2009 and went,

how can I see more of them and see them on TV and just be close to. to what they're doing in any shape or form kind of thing. So I went up, I went up, did a solo show, I left uni and was just like, what the hell do I do? And I booked a venue at the fringe without really having a show. It was like, if I book it, then I don't have a choice.

And it turned out that my brain wasn't as strict as that. And I arrived at the fringe and I had 10 minutes of material. I was like, right, I've sorted it out. But what happened, I went and I had a free venue, and I was like, do you know what? People aren't paying. I'll work it out, hopefully, crapping myself, trying to pretend I was fine. But then I'd get people to, like, open for me, do 10 minutes, and then I'd come on and do my 15 minutes, which was mainly kind of improvised. And I'd work it out and sort of feel my way around it.

But then a friend was like, my friend was working as a runner for a production company from uni. And she was like, I've slipped your show into their itinerary. How's it looking? Is it good? She was just like temping there. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She was like, look, they're coming. You had, like, work the show out.

And I just didn't sleep for like four nights. Every show, I, like, picked up a wig on the way there to try out a new character. And I was like, I was like, oh my God, you know. And by the time the Friday came around, I had an hour. And I mean, just, I think that this is kind of been, it was a big milestone for me because it kind of made me realize how much can, how much, how much a moment can do, I suppose. And it was like, the show went really well. And it had that freshness about it. And it felt like, because I'd literally just come up with everything and I was just like, oh, I'm just going to throw everything at this. And that kind of felt like the first kind of moment that I was like, oh, I'm really, really going to try hard at this. And then so I did, I sort of like, I carried on kind of changing the show for a month. And yeah, then the next year I took up kind of a fully fleshed out show. And then after that, presumably, Edinburgh gave you exposure in terms of,

because you got a lot of work in sort of high profile shows, the kind of shows that everyone would want to be in, really, didn't you? A lot, well, I was, Robert Popper got me. got me on to swing he'd seen the blaps my my the shorts I did with Channel 4 and he got me on as a swing reader for Friday night dinner so swing reader is someone who reads in for all the kind of like one-line parts or any actors that can't make it kind of thing but usually they just the idea is you just go and just read in one voice and just you're basically there just fill it in but I was like oh my god oh my god I have to give every single character a

backstory and and an accent and a kind of the and I'd sort of stay up late reading furiously reading and trying to work out what to do for all. because I thought that was what was expected of me, by the way. That wasn't like, I'm going to go above and beyond thing. I was like, oh, that's what you. It's like, hey, so who's Phil? Phil, who says, can I, can you pass me the bread? Like, where's he come from?

Like, what are his parents like? So I went in and did that. And I think the, like, whatever execs were there were just sort of like, I mean, this guy does a lot more work than he's paid for. And then sort of, I just, I was, I started doing that like twice a week on different shows. so I'd come in, I'd do all the other people's lines and whichever kind of like two-line part I did that I'd sort of got a laugh in the room with

they'd be like, oh let's just give him that and he can come in and do it for a day. So my first sort of like 20 jobs were that, basically. And then I started getting five lines and then maybe like an episode guest and then I got the occasional kind of like four-episode part and then staff came about. But you see that's interesting to me

because that's not, that was, wasn't by chance, that was because you really worked at that. And I know you've said, oh, well, I did it because, you know, I didn't know any better. But the fact is you worked five times as hard, which is why you stood out. I think that, I don't know, for me anyway, I think hard work is always accidental. You can't, like, you can't go, right, today I'm going to work hard. You have to, Well, for me, again, for me, you have to sort of just really want something or be passionate about it and then find yourself incidentally doing hard work. You know, I find I get writers block really badly and really easily.

And it's because if I try and, I always apply the same logic to sleep. When I can't sleep, I have to get into a position in bed where I shouldn't be able to sleep. Like with my head sort of like hanging off, do you know what I mean? Yeah, like my head like hanging off the mattress. with like my arm tucked under the mattress and then I'm just like and then I'm just out because it's like you trick your your brain's like you go like oh I'm never going to be able to get to sleep like this and your brain goes oh yeah well look at this you're out it's like it's the same with hard work it's like if you go right I'm going to do hard work your brain goes no I'm not if I if someone

was to be like do you want to do you want to go out tonight I've got the best evening imaginable plan my brain goes tell you what this be a good night to do some work I'm like oh You've won. Was it three BAFTAs you just won? Yeah. It's weird. It's weird to hear. The adorable pause.

There was a lot of pressure. It was a kind of go big or go home thing, really, wasn't it? Did you have a sense of not wanting to compromise over any aspect of it? I think to an extent, yeah. I mean, I'm not like, I think there's a difference between compromise and collaboration. and I think that I am I'm up for whatever is a good idea kind of thing but there are definitely kind of I suppose there are kind of there are rules in my head that I can't articulate that are tonal or or

sensibility based or almost just like aesthetic textural like things that Things that like I can't explain why, but they just are the case kind of thing. There are there are like certain guidelines. Like for example, I don't like, you know, a bit of a mission statement was, I think I've said this before, a bit of a mission statement was a lot of sitcoms are full of people making very smart jokes and no one's laughing at them in the world. what if we make a show where everyone's making stupid jokes and everyone's laughing at them? Because that feels truthful to me. Like, you know, if you want to sort of listen into any sort of like table at a pub or a cafe and everyone's laughing,

you listen to what they're saying. It's like, I tell you what, bloody school, more like poo. No, because I hated school. And everyone's like that. Oh my God. Jason is the funniest person I've ever met in my life. That felt like a kind of a bit of truth, which, you know, it's the foundation of the show is kind of comedy. Everyone's trying to be funny all the time in it.

The characters are trying to be funny all the time. So that was a bit of a, I suppose, a rule to an extent. You know, I'm always looking for intonation to sound natural and for the jokes to be coming from character versus kind of cleverness. I think there's a tendency sometimes to write a stupid character, but they're just. folks are actually quite smart, you know, as in like you're they're sort of quite neat. Yeah. And I like the kind of fragmented nature of like someone trying to really trying to say something intelligent and failing, you know. Tell me about doing Fleabag because yeah, was that where you first, I suppose that was

a sense of people thinking, oh my God, it's you? Like that brought into a very... Fleabag was an amazing thing for me, you know. And, you know, even just watching Phoebe work and see, you know, she's a real amazing force on set, you know, and watching that kind of authored, you know, delivery of a concept was like, just like a revelation actually. And to see someone so in charge.

But while being like just such, a lovely presence as well, you know. It did wonders. I mean, I kind of think that it's very difficult to commission. There's not a huge amount of money in comedy and it's very difficult for schedulers to commission a show, you know, especially with someone people don't know in it. And I think, I imagine staff probably was given a helping hand in its commission by my part in Fleabag and how wild it went. I mean, that's, you know, that's conjecture. But I, I, I, I, I often think it was around the same time that the series got commissioned was after it came out and yeah. How do you find phone?

I don't find it if I'm honest. I really don't. I mean, you know, I get the occasional, well these days social distance selfie. But I think staff's viewing figures are very low. They actually are. And that's not self-deprecating. It's like, you know, it feels, it sounds like it's, I'm talking, I'm talking stats and admin. It's like, it's not, it's not like on the radar in the same way a lot of things are.

So I do get to live quite a nice kind of, you know, I'm just sort of bobbing around. But you get the occasional person and that's lovely. I don't know a problem with that. The only thing I have a problem with, which I'm sure everyone says to you, is just like an impersonal shoving of a phone in your face, which kind of feels like an extension of social media kind of short mind to, that you're like, oh man, what is this photo documenting? Do you have like a bird watching sheet and you're just ticking it off? What are you going to tell your friends when you show them that photo?

Look what I saw. Look what I saw. This person is like you might as well just show them a photo of me on Google Images. If I'm not in a rush and someone says something nice about the show, it's so lovely. And I want to be like, thanks so much, what's your name? Yeah. You know, I'm not saying like I want to like have a, you know, a sit down coffee. And if the person's like feeling uncomfortable or whatever, that's fine.

I'm not like going to be like, no, talk to me. But there is something about the phone coming out before the question. You're like, oh my God, what's happened? My idea of what I do is built on my understanding of my own experience of being fan as a teenager, I suppose, and like an obsessive kind of, you know, oh my God, the office, oh my God, under partridge, oh my God. You know, Dave Chappelle, oh my God, this, that, you know, things that, like, you know, when you're, like, a sponge as a teenager and things mean, like, an apocalyptic amount to you. Like, you can't sleep because you don't know what to do with how you feel about this thing that you love, kind of thing. And I think that, like, you know, with social media and stuff and that kind of lack of separation between you and, like, I enjoyed the separation between me and the thing.

And when I see that, that magic kind of being broken down, I'm kind of like I know how I feel about people that I really admire and seeing them kind of incessantly tweet all day I don't feel like angry with them but I do feel like I'm losing a bit of my

my like teenage years because I'm kind of like oh I liked it's not you know people can do what they want obviously but for my it was just I loved the magic I loved being able to sit at home being like what the hell is Matthew Perry up to right now

I imagine he's with some gold. I imagine he's got some gold with him. You know, and I was, and you know, maybe that's unhealthy. Maybe, and you know, the truth is maybe that is unhealthy. And maybe it's useful to kind of be able to see people as a person and not, like, hold them on this pedestal. But anytime that kind of wall gets broken down a bit more, I'm like, oh man.

But, you know, I'm a slave to it also. Like, I find I get really distracted. I have to put my phone. in my letter box and lock it and turn all the Wi-Fi off in my flat in order to really be able to focus on work. Like even this morning, I was like, how many times have I clicked on just an internet page that I don't need to look at? I need to just leave the house and leave all my stuff apart from some cue cards and just write on those. I want no access to any of, like, but also like what an impossible obstacle course life has become where you have like a kind of access to every question you want answering in the world in your pocket.

Any sort of like, and even if the question is, hmm, do I want to look at odd plastic surgery right now? Yeah, I think I might do. Well, let's just check to see if I enjoy it when I look at it. Turned out I did want to look at that. And that and that, that sentence has replaced boredom. Instead of bored now, I am Googling what someone, looked like when they were 11. Do you suffer from anxiety of them?

I mean, yeah. Yeah. I don't, I think I'm probably wrong, but I'm of the opinion that most people probably, I think if you're not, then what the hell is going on? Like how, like give me some of what you've got. I mean, it will manifest, surely it'll just manifest itself somewhere else. I think, well, everything is just a kind of quest for clarity, isn't it? Yeah.

So yeah, definitely in a big way. I was a very tense school. I had a stomach ulcer at 13. Just really, just like, furiously worried about everything and how I was coming across and, you know, just loads of attractive qualities like that. Why do you think you felt like that?

Do you think all teenagers do? Or do you think you felt it more, a bit more? No, I do not know. Maybe it's kind of big boy syndrome. It's kind of tall and quite overweight and was like quite aware that like if my friends were play fighting and I got involved in the play fight, someone could die. You're like, sorry about my body everyone. Being at gigs and being on the front row and sort of people and sort of seeing like someone smaller behind me's expression and me being like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'll just leave. Don't worry. I don't even, I only know like 12 of this band songs, well they've actually only released 12 songs. Right, well, you know,

life's full of experiences and I'll show, I'll leave because if I go one step back, I'm inevitably just going to be blocking someone else. So let's just get out of here. Right, so that makes you slightly fearful of taking up space. And I think it's interesting that when you do character comedy, you're inhabiting another space. You know, you're not coming on stage. There is a difference with that, isn't there? Because you're not saying, ladies and gentlemen this is my view on the world your sort of um it's more of an acting performance what I'm saying is I think it's probably more suitable for people who are a bit more

introverted than loud in the house your type of comedy perhaps I mean I wouldn't necessarily I think you're probably right I wouldn't necessarily call myself an introvert I feel like I feel quite confident like in in social situations and stuff like that But I think I probably think a lot about what I'm going to say before I say it. How's that been like feeling a sort of hot property, I suppose, in America?

Because presumably that's... People want... are interested in you now, aren't they? You're having meetings in... I think that you... Oh, God. I mean, obviously I'm just becoming tongue. type. A wise actor once told me that you've got to get your shit right where you come from before you start flitting off to LA and stuff like that. And this was like a few years ago

and I was like, right, yeah, I need to lay in. I need to really sort of nail staten. Stop sort of looking over the fence kind of thing and just like if it feels, go on the, go on the kind of merit of a project, Do stuff on the merit of a project, not on the, necessarily the size or like the otherness of it. Yes. Yeah. I suppose. Like, it's, yeah. I mean.

When you do series three then? I hope so. I hope so. I'm really pleased for your dad. This must be so exciting for him. And is your mom still around. She is. Yes.

Yes. Yes. They live together, strangely. Oh, are they still together? No. They broke up while my mom was pregnant with me. but they still live together. Yeah, I think...

How did that feel when you and your sister were growing up then? Was that a bit old? Well, it was all we really knew. I suppose it's looking back on it where you're like, whoa. But they kind of... I think they were both just like, I don't want to be the one who doesn't live with the kids.

And then that kind of just stuck, and now they're kind of like, what am I going to do? You're looking for a flat. I think we're all right kind of thing. They're lovely. You know, they were... We could have had it a whole lot worse as far as far as well as well.

as support is concerned. You know, I'm not academic. They weren't, there wasn't a huge push to be academic and that stuff, which, you know, which I was always like, oh, about, but I kind of feel like, I'm like, well, whatever school I went to or experience I had, it led to me being able to do something that I really, really wanted to do with my life that I never thought I'd be able to do. So, who used to say what the correct journey is and what you need to be, to be. in this position. Maybe it's the things that I don't know that allowed me to write a really

stupid group of people successfully. I think the thing that people tend to have in common like you is that produce something like you which feels real and authentic is that there's no sort of shame about who they are. I suppose when something's your life kind of day and day out, like, and not even just at home, you know, more often than not, you know when you're walking down the street and you see something mad like a guy who's using a kind of whole tree branch as a walking stick or something, more often than not, I'd get closer to it and realise it was my dad. And that's a verbatim example. You know, like, I remember once, I can't remember if I said this on a podcast before, but I

remember once, I was walking down the street with my friend and we saw a car driving with no driver inside it. And I was like, oh my God. Look, look. Look, look, look, look, there's no one in the car. There is no one in the car and it's driving. And then as it passed us and got closer to us, I looked inside and I saw my dad was driving with the seat, fully reclined back, like with his eyes like looking terrified. And I was like, what?

And then we were really close and I ran back to my house. I was like, what the hell are you doing? He went, I've got a new car and I didn't know how to get the bloody seat up. That's why I didn't recognize the car because it was new. It's like, what? Is there ever going to be an instance where I see a lunatic and it doesn't turn out to be you? Oh, you can see him run now, Jamie. He's had a little quest.

Come on, show Jimmy you run. Show Jamie how you run. Is that as satisfying every day to see? I mean, I can't imagine getting bored of that visual and that. Do you know, he's a real, he's my equivalent of an antidepressant. Do you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, I mean, I've, my girlfriend. friends dogs I just I like tell them my my secrets unlike as in like I I

need I properly like to talk to them about how I'm feeling remind me with your dog situation so they had the be shot they've got the be shorts I was I was probably quite I was probably quite offhand about the be shons I love the be shons I just they just you know there are some dogs that just are like it's not it's not rude they're just like I don't want to acknowledge you you. And these are the ones your parents got recently. These are my mum and dad's dogs who they, I mean, absorb. Like they, they want them to be part of them. They love them so much and they give them so much joy. I actually think my parents' dogs, and they're actually my parents and

my sister's dog, they, those dogs love my parents and my sister so much. It's like they've got no love left for anyone else. It's like they are, and I'm like that's fine. But my, uh, so do they still live with your parents? They sort of split their time between them and Tash's house. Yeah. But my girlfriend's dogs, my girlfriend's, are Daisy and Dougal, and they are lovely. I spent all the lockdown with them. Come on, Ray, Jamie needs to go to the toilet.

It's not all about you? It sort of is all about him, and I'm fine with that. I'd happily rupture a bladder over that dog. Why did you move around here, Jamie? To East London. All my friends around here. Yeah. And yeah, that was a big old pool.

And yeah, I didn't move out until I was, well, I went to uni and I got back when I was like 23, 24. And then I live with my parents for about a year. Come on, Ray. And it just seemed like everyone was here. So there's no kind of like, but now I love it. I really love it. I've actually lived in three different flats around this area. I've done a lot of flat viewings.

Toilets? The one for boys is around the outside. Do you like the way I said that, like I was offering your Bendix mint after the... Yeah, someone walking around with a steel train, toilets, toilets, Jamie. Toilets. Are we good to toilets? Anyone, toilets, toilets? Right, we should... Where are you going now? Can we walk you anywhere? Yeah, I was just going to pop home to get ready. Do you, when do you lose your temper? What makes you angry?

And how does it manifest itself? Um, I mean... I think I'm a... an inward facing anger person. Like, I probably get quite angry with myself. But also, I think my friends would suggest that I do quite a lot of kind of passionate rants about things that probably don't really matter. Look, we've seen that in something before. We've seen it before, and they know that.

are, they're resting on their laurels. But that's not real anger. I mean, real anger, I think I'm just more stressed than angry, if I'm honest. Do you cry when you get overwhelmed? It depends what level we're talking. Any level, really? I think... Some men don't cry at all, do they?

Oh, I definitely cry. I'm trying to think of a time where I've cried when I've been... I remember on the first day of shooting series two, I had been so busy trying to get rewrites done. Oh, come on. Oh, I've been, oh, there you go. You can't tell when he's cocking his leg because he's so beautifully hairy. There you go. I'd been so busy trying to get rewrites done that we hadn't been able to get me any rehearsal time.

So I literally hadn't spoken as the character for about two years. or a year and a half or something and I arrived on set and started doing it and I just my muscle memory was just gone to what he's like and how to improvises him and and and what to do and stuff or it felt like it was anyway I actually think the first day of shooting was the sleepy tour from series two which I'm sort of quite happy with now but at the time it felt like I no idea what I was doing and I just I couldn't between takes it was like a little break for a cry yeah thanks very much like I just I was like what This is because the thing with filming is it's like you don't get a second chance. It's like what you get on camera is what's going to sort of, you know, you're going to have to sort of stand by forever

because people align you with your work in a way that you can't really control. So yeah, I'd say that I'm, I get quite a bit teary when I'm overwhelmed. Sure, why not? Would you say that's in your family, culturally, from your dad's side? I definitely have like, There are certain parts of me that aren't typically Greek. And there are certain parts of me that definitely are. I love olive oil. I'm very broody. Are you? Do you want loads of kids?

It's about loads, but I definitely, when I think about, like staff, when I think about having a child, my bones just don't exist anymore. I just sort of become kind of flesh and a couple of ideas for sketches. That's sort of why I am without bones. How are you, Jamie, at saying no, because I think that's something you might have to learn. Do you know what to me? How have you gleaned that correctly?

I mean, literally two nights ago, I had a really long, serious chat with my girlfriend about just this. Sort of being like, yeah, I think you can say no was said about 14 times with a little encore of stop saying yes. But you did this podcast anyway, so I appreciate you. Yeah, it definitely wasn't about this. This has been so lovely. I think that the not being able to say no thing is born out of a kind of knowledge that seizing opportunities is what's got me where I am.

So it's going to take a while for that to wear off. Maybe it will never wear off. But work-wise, obviously there are some things. Like, I'm not someone, I'm not necessarily very comfortable with being myself on telly. So that is kind of like a frequent know if I'm ever asked to sort of be kind of host sort of thing. I'm like, I just can't. I don't, I'd be squirming. My sister is born for that.

She's amazing of that sort of stuff. She has no, you know, she loves it. But I'm, I just sort of, I'm, I feel too self-conscious. Yeah. Yeah, I sort of, I think it's partly, if you're playing a character and people don't like the character, that, that's sort of like a deflection. If you're being yourself and they don't like you, I don't really know where to put that. Just sort of like, okay, sorry. Sorry, shit.

But this has been so lovely. It was a very, very immediate, yes, I love this podcast. and yeah. Well, I'm so thrilled. I ask everyone this question at the end. You got away without me asking you whether you had therapy. Yes. You have?

Well, therapy? Yeah. I have therapy. Do you? What do you find it helpful? I think it's just kind of good to hear what your stupid thoughts sound like out loud. It took me a long time to realize that as long as the, therapist isn't obstructing your thought processes. It's kind of okay, it's kind of good just to be

able to talk. I think you go into therapy hoping it's going to save you like a prayer, like please, can I have this for Christmas kind of thing? But it's about you just kind of like being able to work stuff out for yourself in front of someone and then kind of giving you a nudge in different directions. And sometimes you can have one of these thoughts that's never kind of made it to your vocal cords and giving it the room to, it just disappears instantly because you're like, oh my God, I've just heard it and it makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't even make grammatical sense. It's not, it's not even, I mean, I don't, is it even, are they words? I don't know. It's like, I don't know what the hell I was talking about. Fine. Okay, that one. Don't need to worry about that

anymore. Kind of thing. So that, that's, that's what it does for me. And it's probably, I always say, It makes me feel like I still burn the house down sometimes, but each time I understand more where the fire started. So it stops that happening in the same place next time. Yeah, yeah, that's a great way of putting it. Should we probably, should we get to your house? So goodbye. Jamie, thank you so much for coming on.

Bye-bye, smorgasbord. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe. on iTunes.