Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Jess Fostekew (Part One)

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

This week Emily and Ray take a walk with the brilliant Jess Fostekew, comedian, writer and all-round powerhouse of warmth and wit.Jess is best known for her acclaimed live stand-up, as well as her appearances on QI, Live at the Apollo, and more. She chats to Emily about growing up in Dorset, how comedy became her social currency, and why she swapped a promising career in law (complete with a very posh law degree) for the world of stand-up, a decision that’s since earned her a devoted following and a Comedy Award nomination.It’s a funny, thoughtful and joy-filled chat with one of the most effortlessly likeable voices in British comedy, and someone who handled Ray’s rather unathletic walking speed with saintly patience.You can catch Jess on tour in her brand new show Iconic Breath, running from February to May 2026. For tickets and dates, head to plosive.co.uk.Follow Emily:Instagram: @emilyrebeccadeanX: @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

That's their form of therapy. Yeah, one-off, as well as therapy. Please do also do the therapy, comedians. But yes, for crying out loud. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a North London stroll with the brilliant comedian at Jess Foster Q. Jess is well known for her hugely successful live stand-up shows,

as well as her numerous TV appearances on everything from QI to Live at the Apollo, and my favourite Celebrity University Challenge. and we had the loveliest chat about her childhood growing up in Dorset, how comedy became a currency for her with her friends when she was growing up, and why she'd initially planned to be a lawyer. She even nabbed herself a posh law degree, so if anyone ever sues me, I know who I'm calling.

But fortunately for all of us, she decided on a career in comedy and has won legions of fans and a comedy award nomination for her genius comic insights. Ray and I love Jess. She's such a fabulous person to go for a walk with, mainly because she's hilarious, but also she's so warm and open and easygoing. And also, despite being one of the fittest people I've ever met, she very patiently tolerated Ray's painfully slow snail's pace, which is more than could be said for me. If you want to catch Jess live, and I really urge you to, the good news is you can get tickets to see her in her show, iconic breath, which will be touring in 2026 from February right through to May. To book tickets go to plosive.co.uk. Really hope you enjoy our chat.

I'll hand over to the woman herself. Here's Jess and Ray. Jess, who are these big boys? I know, very impressive, very handsome. Ray's a bit fearful of the big boys. Don't blame him actually. I'm a bit like that. Yeah.

I give them a wide birth chance. Yeah, you don't want you. You've got to stay clear of the big boys. That's rule number one. So what did mum teach you? No big boys. Do you know I had a friend who did have a rule that she would never go anywhere near a man who wore brown shoes?

She said brown shoes bastard. As if it was something we all knew. And we met at university and I thought, maybe I didn't know that. Maybe everyone else knew about brown shoes bastard. Were they dark brown or that? Any brown? Bastard.

Yeah. I tell you what I have a slight problem with are those pale jeans and what I call Karamak coloured shoes. Oh, cow. With a square toe? No, thank you. Come along, Ray. So, we should say we're in hamster teeth, on hamster teeth,

and you don't have a dog, but you are one of my favourite kind of guests, guess because you brought a dog with you anyway. I've brought a friend's dog, Mabel. I must remember to parent Mabel and not just walk away. And Mabel is beautiful. Is she a cavalier, King Charles? King Charles Spaniel, yeah. And she's a beautiful sort of russet colour.

Yeah, she is. And she seems to be getting one all right with Ray. Oh, let's get, there was some horny-handed sons of toil doing some work. We had, um, oh, I did. One of the dogs I've had was a golden retriever called Bracken that was a similar colour to Mabel named because of the... And who was Bracken? Was that your dog? No.

So Bracken was... I've got lots of half siblings who are much younger than me. Oh, how did you? My sister Hattie, who's 26, has cerebral palsy. And Bracken was a sort of assistance dog, but that we underused to the point where he lost all his skills. when he first arrived he could do things like help her take a sock off and stuff like that and then yeah yeah then I mean he lost all this his bit his best party trick was if you said he'd only do it once but if you said good morning bracket he'd go what morning he spoke human but just the good morning he could

only say good morning and then if you went bracken good morning he just look at you like what the hell do you think I am I'm doing it twice. Jess, I'm really sorry that he does this sometimes. He's seized up. Social anxiety. It is social anxiety. They call it stubborn Shih Tzu syndrome.

I have it myself, but let's not lie. Stubborn. I've snort laughed. First snort laughed. What about when the vet tells you that and you have to keep a straight base? I see. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that what you're doing, Ray? Come on, Ray. Look at this. Okay. It's... What's to do with? I think it could. It's either social anxiety.

Look, he's just refusing now. So this is why I have his little pouch. Oh, I see. And so any... What's going to do? Is he scared or knackard? Oh, look. It's way straight.

His little legs out. He's like a platypus. He's like a platypus. Let's get away from the noisiest men in North London. Yes. And that's saying something, considering the Gallagher brothers, look here. Yes, look, there's some big old boys again. Oh, gorgeous.

They look old. They look old and wise and gentle. Oh, what lovely colourings. Yeah, beautiful dogs. I love those black and white dogs. Yeah. They're like something in the 1940s. Yeah, that looks like a sort of collie Dalmatian mix.

Can you get that? Can you have any cross? What's the biggest and the smallest? Can you have any cross of dogs? Oh, do you know my favourite cross? I had one of these when I had one of these when I had Greg Davis on the podcast. Yeah.

And he didn't have a dog, but he made a request. We got one from a dog, a rehoming charity, for him to have a date with, a blind date with. Yeah. And we were given, for the day, a rotten shepherd. A rotten shepherd. Rottweiler German Shepherd.

God, what a combo. What a, like, mighty combination, Mabel's flirting. Oh, Jess, look at this classic. Oh, I don't doubt. see it. There's going to at least be of some. She's up for that. Classic. Classic down to live. She dealt with that very well actually. Rebel. Robles start walking again on the path. He just didn't like the asphalt. Did, no. Too scrunchy. Too scratchy. So Jess, I'm so thrilled. Thanks for having this podcast. Well, I just noticed that gentle flex about Greg

Davis having done it. I'm afraid I can't get you on Taskmaster. So I'm throwing that in there. I can just get you on other podcasts. I'm happy with that. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay, great. So you've very kindly brought along the wonderful Mabel today. And you don't have a dog. No.

But did you grow up with dogs? Yes. Ah. I had a dog called Poppy. We got her in, as a golden retriever, got her and I was about four, I think. And she was lovely. And yes, years later. well lots of things probably had quite a roller coaster of a time she was very loved but she

she seemed a very calm dog yeah and then at my I think seventh birthday party someone let off a party popper and she bolted and we could not find it for two weeks when we did she'd been run over and she'd needed her hip replace and so she was fine but that was like the big drama in the time that she was with us and then years later after that when I was about 11 my parents separated and then I got told the classic line that poppy's going to live on a farm but great news another six or seven years after that we were reunited because the farm was imaginary she'd gone to live with the dad of my dad's secretary who was his secret girlfriend so she was fine all along she'd just gone to live

with dad's new girlfriend's dad was it we had some good news i got her back in my life as an old lady yeah My God. Yeah, fun isn't it? And everybody's friends. Yeah, so poppy lived to a ripe old age. Did you want to know about that? Yeah, she had a secret boyfriend. Don't worry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody's happy. Yeah. Yeah. And this was growing up in, was it Swanage you grew up in? Yeah, in Dorset. Yeah, because my best friend has a place there, so I spent a lot of time there. This way, Mabel. This way.

Mabel. So. Come on then. So what was it like growing up in Swanage? Lovely, very beautiful, quite sleepy. It's a lot more going on there now than there was when I was growing up there. The sort of pinnacle of excitement was a bit of local Amdram when I was growing up. What was it like?

I don't think I appreciated it, if I'm honest. Really? No, I was desperate to get out. I think if you grow up somewhere kind of sleepy and idyllic, you know, you just want the great, you know, I only applied to universities and big stuff. cities I you know I we all passed our driving test I passed my driving test first time by first lesson on my 17th birthday you know passed it three months later I just we all just wanted to escape as if it was some kind of prison I

look back now and think you're twit like you grow up in paradise yeah it is exceptionally beautiful I don't think I'd be as happy now living in London if I didn't have so many connections there to regularly need to be back there by the sea I think if you grew up by the sea you do feel a bit maybe this is not very science-based but you're called back you're called back to the sea no I understand that I really miss the sea and your parents your dad was a wine salesman yeah he was which I kind of love yeah so it started off I think you know it's just the only job he could get his dad got him into there's a company

called grants of St James is in the 80s my dad's very clever but he's sort of he's not start a finisher so he didn't sort of apply himself academically So his dad ended up needing to get him a job. And he was sort of, when I was little, he was like a, you know, sort of a Mondeo driving salesman for selling various wines for big wine companies to supermarkets and stuff. And then, yeah, for about 15 years, he worked for Merritt, Tennessee, from, like Merritt and Chandon, basically.

And so I had a really funny thing. There's a kid when we were all sort of pinching booze from our parents' cabinets, you know. the slops of something unnamed. Some Lambresco type de. Yeah, some horrible kind of liqueur that had been gifted for a Christmas by, you know, if someone's stepdad's client. And I'm turning up with chate ennifty,

yeah, you know, I was turning up with them. How amazing. Yeah, with champagne. And actually, because we had access to it, we were like, oh, it tastes like diesel, we didn't like it. Again, as an adult, got very different opinions. And what did your mum do?

So she was a nurse when I was very, little and then she moved into she sort of transitioned into initially like just working the care side of a residential school for young people and children with autism but became head of care in that school and then went on to like working managerial positions in the care side of specialist schools sorry Mabel's just met a friend Mabel, who's this? Have you met to a nice friend? What a very smart haircut.

This dog has got us about... And a very independent energy. No humans, oh, there's their human. Oh, look, that dog's voted with his feet. How embarrassing? Sorry, Mabel. He's got a sort of Anna Wintel haircut. Yeah, really smart.

Come on. Clean edges. I like that, do you know what? I like somebody with a parent in one of the caring professions. Yeah. I think it's a, I don't know why. I think there's a sort of an empathy, training that you get. Yeah. Well, definitely compared to a parent in the sales profession.

No shade at your dad. No shade. Hey, we can, I think Keith doesn't mind a bit of shade. We can throw a bit of shade. Oh, he's not a Keith, is he? He's Keith, yeah. It's my favourite. Keith. I love Keith. Yeah, Keith and Nicky, my mum and dad. Come on, stubborn Shih Tzu again. You've stalled. You're stalled. Why are you doing this? Um, so... He's so lovely. What was it like in sort of, it's very hard to, I know, be objective about your own home, because you don't know any different, but how would you, looking back now, what would you say the sort of energy and atmosphere was like? Was comedy a currency in your house? Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't say it was noisy or loud. That's an only child until I was a teenager. And I was left to my own devices a lot. So I think, because everyone just worked. My mom worked shift. You know, my dad worked away. So I think I think I kind of. of grew up quite quickly but I think that gave me a lot of space for and I suppose you know people talk about it in an idealising way now to like leave children room for getting

bored to be creative and I had an abundance of that I would say dad is very funny and his mum was very funny my nana his mum so that was it humour is definitely like a very important part of foster cunis I would say yeah and then quite a naughty humour yeah yeah yeah Um, some of that, I would say some of my dad's era of comedy as an aged well. He would be fine with me. They didn't know, they didn't know. They didn't know. But yes, quite a sort of cheeky, self-deprecating, very silly type of comedy in my house.

But like, um, yeah, it was joyful to be around. sort of laughter in that way and I think you know it covers a myriad of other things that are harder to discuss if everyone's being funny all the time but actually it's still yeah it's pretty joyful and I think it's useful I think to have that yeah if you get I don't know I think if you're in any way not socially powerful at school right you're gonna try and walk now yes I can see that yes you can be funny you can again you it's just so useful it's such a handy thing God, this is pretty. Isn't it lovely?

Jess. How far do you live from here then? Miles. I'm in South East London. So Greenwich should be my equivalent part to this. It's so lovely of you to come over here today. My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

You love having you up north. Yeah. And I do love it up here. So only children in my experience often have quite a sophisticated, I mean it's a terrible generalisation. Yeah, yeah. I'm here for it if you're about to do a compliment. I tend to think weird because they're hanging out with that I didn't say that okay I tend to think

hanging out with adults a lot yeah I always find when I talk to them you know friends young kids who are only children they're just they're just that they've just got the edge on that sort of a little bit more sophisticated um yeah not running around with buckets on their head quite so much. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do know what you mean. I think there's yeah, there's a light and shade to that, if you know what I mean. I definitely was a very classic only child in a sense I was very comfortable, like oddly comfortable in the company of adults compared to kids. And it does. I think it gives you good chat, you know, the upsides were things like, I got served pretty young. You know, I think I presented as very

mature by my mid-teens but I don't know it definitely it definitely didn't equip me you spend most of your life at school yeah you know and it didn't really equip me for that thank God there was like an ability to be funny eventually to sort of win me into some friendship groups I love these benches we've just got to a bench and there's one of those it's a lovely memorial bench isn't it don't you think that's a lovely thing to do for someone yeah we've just done one actually for my Nana in Dorset yeah a stone one amazing where at Dielston up near Swanage where she used to do dolphin watching

and it's really cool they've like they've repurposed like slate that was going to be thrown away and turned it into this really pretty stone bench they're sitting together that's so lovely it's lovely yeah and you can go and sit there and it says Irene Greenway dolphin watcher. It's so perfect. I mean she was so many things. She had like about 15 grandkids and four kids and she was a math genius but yeah she um she did also watch dolphins and I love it that's what it says on her plaque. That was her main thing. Dolphin watcher what a lovely episode. She did decoding in the Second World War but what we've remembered on there is that

she also watched dolphins as a voluntary position. I love her. Yeah I love her. I talk about her in my new show she's really fun. Some sort of Hedy Lamar type. She's a woman. She's extraordinary. Yeah, she was. Up on the bench. So I'm getting a little image. Yeah. I'm getting an image of little Jess, and I think I rather like her.

Oh, thank you. That's kind. Is she, is little Jess? I often think, it's interesting. When you think about yourself as a kid, to think, if you were one of your friend's parents and someone said, what's Jess like? Yeah.

What would they have said? Oh. Oh. I think I was all right. I think I was a pretty good kid. I think I was really compliant. Were you? Yeah.

So, yeah, my son's an only child, and I've gone out of my way to socialise him. Yeah. Like you would with dogs to get him used to other dogs. In a way that I don't think parents have only children cared about in the 80s. They just sort of wasn't on their list. But like I've really smooched him in. to the company of other kids so that he has able to make friends with people his own age.

So whereas I think people would have said yes, classic only child about me and I don't think they'd say that. I don't think they say that about him. Right. He sort of thrives on the company of other children more than adults. Whereas I think I'd, they'd have probably thought, nice, she's nice, she does what you've asked, a bit weird. So were you quite a happy, sort of go lucky kid then and was it was it sort of obvious from a young age to everyone that maybe comedy might be a feature in your life heavily I would say I don't know if I was happy go lucky I think I was I don't know it's tricky I remember I remember saying to a therapist once yeah really happy childhood perfect child and she said describe your bedroom for me and I thought

I'd drawn all over the walls and she's like okay hang on so I don't know if it's it's happy and lucky. I think I was relatively unobserved. So I think there was a lot like going on. But yes, the answer to the second bit is, I think it was very obvious very quickly that that I was probably going to be some kind of show off. Yes. I really enjoy doing, it's very little. I used to do impressions of Tommy Cooper for my family. And then when I was a bit older, I used to do impressions of shooting stars and Vic and everything that Vic and Bob did. or French and Saunders, I'd do impressions of that, even with no context, really.

And I think back now and think, what's an annoying child? Constantly doing impressions of people off the telly, but yeah. And I don't know. I think if you don't, if you just let a child get on with it in quite an extreme way, like with me,

where you had an awful lot of time on your tod, they probably are going to have some kind of career that involves needing a disproportionate amount, of appreciation from strangers. So I'm trying, again, to go the other way with my kid, flood him with attention so that fingers crossed, he gets a nice coding job, something secure. He does a bit of, load of maths, load of, you know,

really stable, boring, not Canadian life than him. He doesn't end up craving validation like the rest of us who go into this world. Yeah. But, you know, I remember, I can't remember if you were talking on a podcast or if I read it, but, You're talking about being in a school play and how it was a really defining moment for you. Yeah.

And you were, am I right thinking it was grotesque henchman? Yeah, it was something like that. It was, yeah, exactly. It was, I went for the main part. There was a good, you know, a goody and a baddy main part. And I went for both desperate to be in it. And my friend Maya got the villain. And I got her sort of henchman, yeah.

Well, it's an androgynous kind of hench. Hensperson. I don't know if it was even a human. It was called grovel. Okay. And it was very like, oh, it was called Ozzy and the Swartz. It was a new play for kids at the time. And you were held sort of 11 or something.

Yeah, 10 or 11. And I at the time, I couldn't believe that people were laughing and had people stopping us in the supermarket and saying to my mum, she should go to Rada and I didn't know what that word meant, but my mum was like, she could tell my mum was quite chaffed. It was really felt amazing. I look back now and I now realise Grovel was 100% an impression. of Rick Mail. I was so influenced by I loved him. I loved Bottom and Blackadder and

yeah I think but actually Grovel was quite derivative character actually that I have to row back on and say I clearly didn't have identified my comedic voice at this point. Can I just say I've moved on a lot comedic least yeah thank you I have moved on I've actually yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's very powerful isn't it that sense of suddenly receiving laughter. Yeah, it is so powerful. Do you remember that feeling, Jess, and thinking, oh, I like this? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, thinking I love this. I think, I remember I had, there was a school play once and I auditioned for Titania. Oh, wow. And then I ended up with Bottom and I cried. Oh, but you know, and I said to my parents, I can't play Bottom, I'm so embarrassed. And my dad said, no, it's a much better part.

better part because it's funny. You can be funny. Buy some more puck all day. You don't want to be boring old Titania. But it really taught me that because I was, Tatania had a flower crown and a pretty dress and purple eye shadow badly applied and I, and I had these horrible unflattering trousers and I was short and I felt a bit dumpy and I had this belt with a cardboard sword on that. I like the sand of this kid. Where's the belt with the cardboard sword? I don't know why. I didn't even know a bottom knee did a sword, but I just...

And do you know what? Yeah. I felt really depressed and then when I went on and people started laughing. Yeah. Not because I was going to, it's a funny part. Yeah. And I remember that sense and I wonder if that's how you felt of just feeling quite liberated and like, oh I see.

Sometimes it's much better not to be the objectified, pretty elegant one. Oh God, it's such a good point, isn't it? I think your currency, it's a little girl, is so, I mean, it wasn't so simple. You knew it would be useful to be clever. You knew it would be, I definitely knew that. Sorry, you're a me too lab for me. Oh, gorgeous. Oh, long face though.

That's a mixture of things. It's a bit of me. Yeah. Come on. Not to you. No, I wasn't saying, come on to you. Come on, Jess. Hurry up, finish your story.

It was taking a long time that story. Jess. Jess, left your story over there. Yeah, what were you saying that's interesting? Yeah, about little girls. Oh, I think little girls are kind of, you know that your currency, from so young, you know, that part of your currency is going to be,

how good looking you are, your appearance, in one way or another, is it pleasant? You know, when you're that young, it's not about being attractive, but it is so obviously part of it. And actually, it probably is, if you get a laugh being, not necessarily a grotesque character,

but like something, the value of which has got nothing to do with appearance, the appearance is part of what's funny, like you were saying, you realise there's a whole new power in that, and it's really freeing. I think every little girl should be made to play bottom or grotesque henchman. Well, do you know what I mean? In the same way that, like, kind of, I guess, encouraged to do ugly sports as well, or sports where you lose your exercise where you lose,

you must stop thinking about what you look like, or you're not going to be doing it. Those types of things that take you out of your, that concern. Yeah. It's a really... That's such a good thing to stick on the curriculum. Yeah. Play someone where the...

Yeah. Because of those messages really get driven home and unless you have an experience like either of us had... Yeah. Which, you know, was against my will. I didn't want to do that. Same. I mean, I'd gone for the... Yeah.

You went for the equivalent of Titania as well. And then just that experience of having your expectations completely wrong-footed like that. And you think, oh, I wouldn't play Titania again ever. to Tanya again ever if you paid me yeah um yeah it's really interesting isn't it yeah it is so you were very you were very academic jess right you because you ended up and I love this fact about you did law yeah was it at LSE yeah what waste I did really enjoy it I hated the first year and then I loved the second two years because you could sort of just focus on stuff you're interested in and I was interested in

loads of it, I just wasn't interested in the, in the first year you had to do with a really kind of contractee, propertyy, dry, arid stuff, but I actually loved that degree at that university for the second and third year or because it became quite, I got, I really was interested, still am interested, really interested in sort of criminology and sentencing and I guess different theories around law, you know, applications of feminism in law and stuff like that I'm still really fascinated by. This is Mabel. We've met some little people here at meeting the dogs. Yes, she's friendly.

It's sticks! Cool walking sticks. Is that nice, Mabel? So that was rather lovely, wasn't it? That was a bit gorgeous, wasn't it? You know, that's one of the things I love about having a dog, Jess. Because you get those little encounters where if I didn't have Raymond, I wouldn't have spoken to those. No.

No, it is lovely. It draws strangers in, doesn't it? isn't it? It's a lovely bit of engagement. And is someone who hasn't got a dog in modern times but is hoping to get one ASAP? Are you? Yeah. Does your son want one?

Yes. And my partner, but we've got very ancient cats that must first perish because they wouldn't handle it. They're real old, creaky old, creaky old guys. It's like having to get rid of the first, the star to hospital, isn't it? Yes, exactly. Yes, we all need, yes, the second marriage is going to involve a dog for sure. But what are the rules now?

Because it feels quite free and easy in this park. easy in this park perhaps because we're in such a universally lovely park yeah but do you I are you meant to ask these days if you give it if you can give someone's dog a big snuggle or is the dog meant to wear a uniform that says don't touch oh they have like scarce and they basically have all different like identity per take you get all their different flags or and then also say anxious or don't touch or scared of dogs not a dog dog do you know what I I do notice when parents say is it okay, say to the child, ask if you can stroke it. I always

really respect that as good parenting. Okay, good. Just because I think that's sort of, just for the kids safety as well, you know, some dogs aren't great with kids. I absolutely love the idea of Raymond even attempting harm human. Sometimes you'll get, even a newborn, I sometimes, I mean, Raymond's going to be the shy one. It makes me laugh sometimes when you're getting, I'm sorry, Sorry, I'm frightened of dogs. Really? Really? That one.

Come on, Ray. So the law thing, yeah. That fascinates me, Jess. Because I can sort of see you as being a bit of a don't fuck with me fellas at the boardroom. Really? Pinstripe skirts. I really do wonder if I've missed my calling. I think I'd have a much nicer house.

I don't know if I had gone that way. I've got a really weird, unprovable theory. first choice of university was Bristol and I didn't get I did they didn't even give me an offer I was predicted LSC is much better now yeah it's just overtaking all the others this this very recently just become number one isn't it oh it is very cool oh I heard that Roman yeah but I've got this really weird feeling that if I had gone to Bristol and done law I'd have been a lawyer really yeah why do you think that is I

It's just like this very overwhelming sense. I don't know what to base it. I think it's because the vast majority of people in my life I'd never have met. I'm so glad that you didn't because that would be such a loss to all of us. You're too funny. I think you would have found it difficult. Yeah.

Well, I think what stopped me in the end was I realised it would have to be the only thing you want to do to succeed in it, much like being a comedian, to be honest. have fallen head over heels in love with it and with nothing else you would have to have been all the eggs in that basket and at that age you know in undergrad you know finishing that 21 there was so many baskets I couldn't bear the idea of having all eggs in one and was it always clear that you were the sort of funny one in lectures or at university that actually there was this thing that was sort of inside you

when you were kind of a bit in denial about it, about the comedy stuff? Or did it happen after university? Yeah, I think it did. Yeah, I think it did. Yeah, I think actually in life as a stand like me, I just never considered it. Really?

I didn't even know that really, beyond, like, I'd say I was aware that you could be a comedy actor, you know, like those people who are, I was saying before, you know, the Rick Mao and Dawn French, and, you know, I was aware that you could be really funny in things and acting. And I knew really my dream would be to do that. But I also, I don't think I was, I wasn't brought up in a world where you aspired to that kind of thing as an actual job.

You know, it's a sort of thing you might enjoy as a hobby. But it took me years into adulthood to think, I could. No one's stopping me trying. It was always I paying my own way and I'm not asking anyone for anything. I could see what happens. it was more tentative rather than like a kind of entitled, I've got this, I could do whatever I want to do.

It wasn't that, it was a more creeping, slow-growing confidence in the thing. And I suppose also the idea of being a comedian is very different now. People now see it as quite a glamorous aspiration or cool job. Whereas I don't think back then it was seen much more as a kind of alternative.

Very few people made it, bit weird. Yeah, not many women doing it comparatively, load all of that, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, I started 18 years ago. Right. And it was a really different. It's very different. It didn't feel so glossy as it is now. No, no.

Did you, so do you remember your first gig, Jess? Did you just say, fuck it, I'm just going to give this a go? Well, yes, I had friends who I was doing improvised stuff and bits of acting, and I was in an improv group with people who've gone on to an enormous thing. I was in an amazing long-form improv group with Sarah Pasco, Carriad Lloyd, Gemma Whelan from Game of Thrones. Oh, I love all those three women. Incredible. And Paul Foxcroft.

Loads of really talented people. And Sarah Pasco had started stand-up, basically. And just sort of trying a hand at it. And I think, you know, I sort of saw her doing that and thought, well, that looks fun. And maybe it would help me. get more acting work, you know, might help me get an agent. Had you decided to act at that point? Yeah, well, I decided to give it a go.

Yes, but there wasn't anywhere near it being able to be my job. And then, I literally tried it once and was like, okay, all in. It was so nice to find a creative outlet that felt like the harder you work, the better you'll do, that felt meritocratic, unlike acting. And it didn't feel like it had anything to do with what you look like. it didn't feel like it had anything to do with anything other than you could work hard and do better and there aren't many types of creative job where that's the case there's generally a lot more luck and buzz and connections involved in almost every other way in than stand up where you actually

if you write your socks off and just go out every night yeah you know had the energy for it then as well i was in my early 20s you just go out and yeah and do more than one gig a night if you can and just build those hours up on stage. And as you said, crucially, I mean, my mum was an actor, so she used to say very dramatically with a cigarette, a painter can paint, a writer can write, but an actor, we cannot act without a help of others. It was all this kind of.

But actually, it's interesting what you're saying, because you're right, you have the dignity of still being able to do your job as a comic. No one can stop you doing it. You're always going to be able to find a gig where even if it's working for free, but doing acting, you are dependent on. other people aren't you yeah totally I mean I love acting still but you need to get the auditions then you need then a load of other things are at play yeah when it

comes to whether you get that casting or not so now it's interesting because you get you just you make it they come or they don't you know yeah and you hope that over the years more people come than don't yeah and there's ceilings on other stuff you know the other work that comes to being a stand-up like you know the radio and telly and anything else where people are or aren't choosing you for a thing but actually the actual work of stand-up you just keep making it's great I love that yeah I like that let's go and get a coffee show you and get a coffee Mabel come on Ray

I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week. Thank you.