Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - John Bradley

Episode Date: April 27, 2017

Emily takes her Shih-Tzu puppy Ray out with Game of Thrones star John Bradley to help him conquer his dog fear. They talk about starring in one of the most successful TV shows ever made, why he doesn���t drink, and a plane journey with David Beckham. They also have an encounter with some hungry pugs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There was a moment where the dog jumped up to get her sandwich and she went, oh no. She said, oh no, you're not having this. It was like a really awful boyfriend that turned up. Oh, no. Oh, no, you don't want my sandwich now. Hi, welcome to Walking the Dog with Emily Dean. This is episode five, and I know I keep saying this, but it's so brilliant getting your feedback. So please remember to rate and review and subscribe on iTunes.

So this week I went out with the actor John Bradley from Game of Thrones, which is back. By the way, the new season starts on July the 17 on Sky Atlantic, which is super exciting. So here's the thing. John's a bit scared of dogs. I don't know how he copes with those direwolves. Anyway, I decided to try a bit of exposure therapy, so I took him out for a walk with my puppy Raymond, who is a little shih Tzu. That's not me being horrible about him. That's his breed. So this is Walking the Dog, and I'm Emily Dean, and I'm here with John Bradley from Game of Thrones, who you might know better as Sanwal Tarly in Game of Thrones.

Hello. Hi, John. And it's like we're in a chat show, but it's in a massive park. Yeah. We're in Morkloe Park in Highgate. Yeah, it's gone alfresco. It's beautiful here. Normally, I've heard a couple of these,

and normally you go to the places where people live and interview them with their dogs. Yeah. I don't live here. Yeah. And I've not got a dog. So... Why are you doing this show?

Pardon me breaking from the form so dramatically. But yeah, this is... this is your manner, isn't? This is Highgate. This is your neck of the woods. Yeah, and you're from Manchester. I'm telling you where you're from. But you're from Manchester, but I thought it would be really good because I know you've had a few bad run-ins with dogs,

and I thought you could meet my dog Ray, who's a Shih Tzu, and we could take him out, because I want you to overcome your fear. Yeah, I must say he's a sweetheart. And I would say that I'm not sure that meeting the nicest dog in the world is going to make me go over my problem, because the next one I meet isn't going to be the nicest dog in the world. Well, do you want to describe what Ray's like for everyone? Ray?

Where is he a Shih Tzu? Yeah. Ray is... I saw a couple of photographs of Ray before I met him, but they weren't scale drawings or anything. They weren't to scale. Then I met him, and I couldn't believe how small he was. He's absolutely adorable.

He's like a slipper that one of those... That one of Regvarnie's conquests had wears to the door and on the buses with a nightie. He's an adorable, fluffy... Basically, he's everything that I'd ever wanted to meet in a dog because he's the only dog in my life I've never felt slightly threatened by. And he's so small and so fluffy and so cute. Yeah.

That he's basically... I would say the only animals that might be scared of him, possibly earwigs. Yeah. Here's a way of distancing myself from millennials. He's got a Jimmy Edwards mustache and Bernard Ingram eyebrows. Even I'm struggling with those references, John. You got me. So let's walk up here fast and you're going to tell me why you're frightened of dogs.

I think I remember we used to live in a block of flats until I was about four years old. And in the afternoons my grand used to come around and look after me. And, you know, we'd play games, we'd watch telling, she'd read to me. And then at some point in the afternoon we'd have a walk out to the shops. It's my favourite bit because I got a bag of roosters out of it usually. And we came out of our flat and immediately as you left our flat, there was a flight of stairs going down to the front door of the flats. And there was a truly, I think by any standards,

but if you're three years old, it changes the game completely. By any standards, there was a terrifying dog at the bottom of the stairs who was snarling up at us and barking really, really loud and basically had something against the idea of us walking down the stairs and going out of the door. I don't know what it was, but he just wasn't going to let us pass and he wasn't going to stop barking. As soon as our little faces appeared at the top of the stairs,

he'd be off. So we just had to run back inside and we were kind of trapped in the flat all day. We felt a bit like Rapunzel. I think that's where it come from. I mean, it took me a long time to get over it and I'd go around to people's houses where they had dogs.

And no matter how kind of friendly the dog, I was always... You see, Ray, Ray is quite an easy dog to avoid. All you basically do is lift your foot up six inches and he shoots under your foot. So are you feeling less frightened? I mean, in fairness.

In fairness, Ray is a very good one. And I think by exposure therapy, it doesn't pay to be exposed to the most placid of dogs. I'm not really learning anything. But look at those two fighty pugs here. I'm actually going to pick Ray up. Yeah, do.

Those dogs look a bit cray-cray. I mean, they look lovely. They're quite full on. They're really cute, but I just think they're quite boisterous. I think that with Ray, you've got to go a bit all of a twist. Ray's a bit all of a twist, and you've got to perfect it, kind of protective. from all them roustabouts in Fagin's gang and all the other boisterous dogs.

No, no, no, no, no. Come on, go to me. See that? Well, what happened there? This woman has two pugs and the pugs jumped up and started eating a total stranger's sandwiches. Sandwiches? And what I loved about it was that the woman whose sandwiches were being eaten didn't do what I would have done, which is say, oh, don't worry, it's no problem. She went, No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

There was a moment where the dog jumped up to get her sandwich and she went, oh no, no, you're not having this. It was like a really awful boyfriend to turn up. Oh, no. Oh, no, you don't want my sandwich now. So we should say as well, so we've got Ray, just to set the scene. Yeah. And we're in Waterloo Park in Highgate.

Beautiful Waterloo Park. It's really, really nice. Yeah. And it's 20 acres. And it was one of those places that it was apparently built as a garden for the gardenless. Oh, really? Yeah. What a lovely idea.

What a lovely charitable idea. And we're meant to be walking, Ray, but I'm actually holding him like a baby because he's too lazy and he doesn't like walking. Well, no, we just got a couple of sandwich-fixated dogs. We don't want to let Ray loose on them. So what do you make of Ray? What's your impression of him? I'm such a fan of Ray. There's something very human about Ray that I think is quite easy to negotiate.

Whereas those two, lout, back there. They were, they're what I'd call animals. They're like disgusting animals, hell bent on taking people's lunches, route from under their nose. But there's something very human about Ray. And, you know, if any animal, you know, decides to walk 20 yards and have a rest, basically I'm on side. Okay, well, this is all good news.

Basically, he's well on my way to changing my views on dogs. Having said that. He's a particularly good one. All I'm going to kind of concede is the fact that not all dogs are horrendous. Not all men, not all dogs? All of them except Ray are pretty horrendous. So John, talk me through... Well, Ray doesn't like dogs, can we just say at this stage?

Ray's firmly on our side. That's what I mean about him being human. When you say our side, I love dogs, which is what I have a dog dog car. Oh, yeah, you're right. When I say Ray's on our side, I meant mine and Ray's side. Okay. I like dogs, but I'm scared of dogs. And I wish I liked them.

was one of those men who could confidently walk into somebody's house and pick a dog up and like wrestle with it and stroke it really aggressively and then instant bond develops between you and the dog like there's a trust there instantly yeah but i i've always gone to do that then as soon as he charges towards me i've bottled it i've always bottled it and just thought maybe that's not for me because i never know it's the same with horses it's the same with any animals no when people say if you get a big old dog they say if you're going to stroke it you're going to stroke it really hard but really get your fingers in so you can feel it because otherwise they won't feel it.

Same with horses. When you make a horse go, you're supposed to kick it. But I just never quite know how to gauge what they mean by firm. And I'm stroking it very gingerly with the tips of my fingers. And they're going, no, stroke it harder. I'm going to be a little bit harder.

No, harder. He won't be able to feel it. Sorry. Is he all right? Yeah. Does he swallowed something? Ray is eating some, I don't know, he's eating some flowers or something.

It was flowers or excrement, one of the two. Oh, my autobiography. Talking of your autobiography, you're in Game of Thrones, which is obviously one of the most successful TV shows never made. And I think it sort of happened really suddenly for you, didn't it? You just won't come out of drama school when you got the part? I came out of drama. I auditioned when I was still at drama school for the first round,

and I was just finishing off my final show of the final term, and I got the audition for this thing. And I didn't really get the kind of magnitude of it because I'd never heard of the books at that stage. So I didn't really know what kind of bigger deal. It was all I knew that it was HBO. And I associated HBO with kind of very high benchmarks of telly over the last kind of 10, 20 years, but it wasn't.

So I knew that it was going to be, I knew that it was going to be a thing that had a lot of kind of credibility to it. But I would have been nervous no matter what it was for. And then of course you said... That woman wasn't talking to it. us, by the way. What did she say? Get down now? Yeah, she was talking to her. Like James Brown. Her daughter's, her child is on the... Yeah, her child's got the cheek to be on a climbing frame.

She's saying, get down. That's what it's for. So yeah, so you've got the call? So I, yeah, I got the call. And it's this, you know, whenever something happens like that, there's an instant celebration. And you think, oh, fantastic, I've got this. I've got my first job. No matter what happens. after this, I can say that I'm a working actor for the next few months. Fantastic. Really, really pleased. Really kind of celebratory and everybody was getting into it saying, heard you got this thing, tutors, you know, fantastic. And then that lasted for a while. Those kind of endorphins kicked around for a bit. But after a while, that settles down and you suddenly got the hand on your shoulder that says,

you've got a job to do now. And these people who have cast Sean Bean and Mark Addy and Lena Heady in this show, think that you can do this job based on two, three-minute auditions, and you think you better not let them down. Did you feel a sense of imposter syndrome, which people often say they get, you know, when something incredible like that happens to you, that you feel actually, should I be, while have I got this job? Yeah, I think that that's quite a natural thing to think, just because it's, He's got some fans.

Sorry, John, they're not interested in the dog. No, that's right. Sorry, he's really cute. He is, isn't he? He's too lazy to walk. Yeah, we've got a show for him around. I'll see if we'll walk. Hang on.

So you go for, you take the dog out for a walk and you're holding. Yeah, we take the dog out so we can have a walk. I need the exercise, apparently. He is a Shih Tzu. And he's about three months old now. Yeah. Oh, it's really nice to meet you. Thank you. Come on, Ray.

So yeah, so I was going to ask you, John, so what was it like your first day set on Game of Thrones, sorry, your first day on set on Game of Thrones, and when you met, well, your people you're going to be working with, and did you, was it good fun, or were you really scared? Literally, my one memory of that first day is just how much much my ignorance was exposed, I think, because I went to a very, really good drama school in Manchester that was very kind of theatre-centric. So it trained you very, very well for the theatre,

but didn't really expose you to much kind of camera technique or camera training or anything like that. I think we had three hours camera training in the three years that I was at drama school. It may have changed now, but that was the kind of ratio. Three hours, you know, when you consider that we did three hours training at drama school and my fourth hour in front of a camera was on Game of Thrones oh thank you she's only really young yeah she's a shih Tzu she's three months he's she I'm calling her she yes it's a boy it's a bloke yeah it's a boy okay I've got two little girls at her so I've got two little dashy so oh nice I'm used to saying she's oh that's right oh

gorgeous oh thank you thank you Cheers. Having the dogs great for meeting people, but they don't all put a crimping your anecdotes. We were talking, oh, there's a, we just saw two lads running across the park because I'm from Manchester, I'm very skeptical about runners. I'm instantly quite suspicious. I think a crime's happened. I don't think they're running for their health benefits.

So tell me, so when you first met Kit, I'm thinking more about the sort of, what was it like meeting everyone and were you nervous and? Yeah, really nervous, but, but yeah, it was all that thing about. about feeling like a bit of a fraud. And yeah, as I was saying on my first day, I just didn't know how a day's filming worked even because I went to this drama school that was very heavily leaning towards theatrical training.

And when I got the call sheet, for the first call sheet I'd ever got, I saw the scene that we had to do, I read it, I saw that it was maybe two and a half pages. So I thought, oh, we'll have this done by lunchtime. I thought they'll set four or five cameras. up like a studio. That was the only thing I knew about. I knew that in studios they set cameras up, pointed them a certain way and then you just did it. That's the way I thought this kind

of telly worked. So I was there wondering what am I going to do with my afternoon? And it turns out that we still hadn't finished the scene after a 15 hour day. It was a complete education for me on that first day. And that's when you start to feel that, oh no, they've backed the wrong horse here. What were you, you mean? Yeah, because... But do you think, Everyone was feeling like that, presumably, because had Kit done... Kit had done two plays. I should say in case anyone doesn't watch Game of Thrones, firstly what's wrong with you.

And secondly, that's Kit Harrington, who plays John Snow, who is... How would you describe your character as Samuel Tarley and your sort of relationship with him? He's the... Well, he's the out-and-out-dashing male hero. And I'm the kind of the trope of the bookish, but very loyal. best friend. And yeah, I'd like to think

that a kind of real life relationship that was cultivated between me and Kit does lend itself to a certain chemistry on screen. So you two became good friends early on? We became good friends very, very early on, yeah. I think that

I had to get over Manchester working class chips on shoulders, I think. Did you? Yeah, just because I go over that a little bit at university at drama school but you just think you know what are we going to talk about I don't know what to talk about with people from that background

and when you say that background is he from quite a posh family kit yeah I think his family are actually nobility kit may even have a title so I don't know what people with titles talk about they won't be interesting to stuff that I talk about but it turns out that I needn't have worried about all that because it's mainly people, working class people.

Would you describe yourself as working class? Yeah, definitely. My mum has worked for a long time because you've been quite ill. She's been on kind of disability things for a while. And my dad works at... I think we should take that pick Ray up just because there's a big dog not on the lead. There's a right bruiser coming up here. He used to sort of...

What would you describe him as? He's Tom Hardy of dogs. Yeah, he is. He's more the brand... He is. He's exactly the same colour as the sofas they used to give away on bull's eye. He's a huge dog. He's that kind of eighties couch brown. So sorry, you were saying your mom hasn't been well-on. Yeah, my mum's had really bad arthritis for a while and she's found, you know, getting about quite difficult.

My dad still works. My dad works at kind of flight services at the airport, so catering for flights and stuff. Yeah, a really kind of working class background on an estate called Within Shore in Manchester. Which, at the time it was built, it was the biggest council of the state in Europe, I think. And I think it's been knocked off the top spot by somewhere else now, which has infuriated the locals. And do you think, and so when you first were doing

sort of scenes together and stuff, Yeah. I think that's almost a bit, do you think it's a bit like they call it sort of trenches, those relationships that you make in the army? Yeah, that's a really good point. I think that they... Regardless of class or background or anything like that.

I think the friendships that you make with people when you're both scared and uncertain and, and, you know, you adopt roles where you can be kind of pillars for each other to cling on to. I think they're the friendships that last because that's when you see people at their most vulnerable. Yeah. I think.

And it worked. It worked very quickly because there's a scene in that first episode that I'm in where John and Sam are cleaning tables and they talk about girls. So there was that scene. That was a really nice scene between two people and that came much later in the production. That wasn't in the first draft of that episode. They wrote that episode and gave us a script. And then as they noticed how Kit and myself were getting on and the chemistry that was emerging, they gave us this extra scene to do. which doesn't really add anything to the plot, but it does really cement their relationship.

It's a really nice scene for them too as they start to explore each other and they start to establish common ground. And it was nice that they had sufficient faith in the chemistry between me and Kit as friends first and then actors second. They thought that just seeing two people talking in the middle of all the action,

so many scenes in Game of Thrones happened with just two people, talking. People remember the big epic scale battles and things. And did you, presumably you had some kind of laughs as well when you were on set, did you? Yeah. That's bonding as well. Stuff that has become, has identified itself as a laugh since. Like what? Well, there was once, there's, in the Castle Black set there's a, there is, because of course for the uninitiated,

Castle Black houses the Knights Watch who was supposed to protect the west of... The funny Tong Twister coming up the rest of Westeros from the threat... I see your role as, you know, like in those really expensive private estates, they're always security vans patrolling around. Exactly that. You're like the fantasy world version of those.

Yeah, exactly. Just designed to keep unsavories out. Yeah. And so our... is located at the wall. John's sorry, the cutest dog in the world. A little white, it looks like a Maltese. And him and Ray are just getting to know each other, aren't they? They're really getting, yeah. He's, oh, Ray's not letting him walk.

Oh, I'm going on a minute. Oh, it's all gone sour. Ray literally sad to have lost him. He wasn't quick enough, was he? And the Maltese is now cocked his leg as a final insult. As a final insult, yeah. Come on, Ray. And he's off.

Plenty more fish in the sea, and that's why I think you're going to win up with at your size. So go on. Yeah, so Castle Black, our location, is at the wall. And to get from Castle Black to the top of the wall, in the logic of the show, there's a lift. Now, the wall's about 700 feet high. In the set, because the first hundred feet of the wall is like real stone quarry face, there's an actual genuine working lift that takes actors up a certain height, and then they come back down

and it's as if they come from the top of the wall. And one day the lift got stuck. The lift got stuck with me and kit inside. About 100 feet in the air. Just because you're filming Game of Thrillong doesn't make the experience of getting stuck in a lift any less traumatic, really. And the thing about it was,

we were up there 100 feet in the air thinking, you know, basically giggling about it, thinking on the scrapes we get into. Oh, the scrapes we get into. What about, yeah, this is, this is an anecdote. This is going to be the way it's happened. And we're nudging each other and kind of making little jokes. Then we looked down through the floor of the lift, because the floor of the lift was just like a cage.

Yeah. There was no wood. You could see through the floor of the lift to see every single crew member standing in the courtyard looking up at us, absolutely terrified. Absolutely terrified. And they were looking at us thinking, we can't. What can we do? We've shot far too much. to replace these now. It's going to cost us a fortune.

If that lift drops, on the bottom of the lift drops out, it's a hefty insurance payout. But the thing is that we were having such a laugh about it until we saw how terrified everybody else was. We were looking out onto the courtyard, and then we just suddenly, of all the things you want to see at that moment, we saw the set medic come into the courtyard and kind of wend her way through the crowd to the front. We thought, oh no, I reckon we're in slightly more trouble here than we thought we were

10 seconds ago. Sometimes no matter how unique your circumstances, kind of mundanity can really come to the roofing. It's where Game of Thrones meets only fools and horses. So you live in Manchester still, but presumably, so your life has changed, like in what way? Your life has changed a lot. Presumably you get a lot better class of airline seat now, I presume. The fact is that people come up to you and say, oh, Game of Thrones must have completely changed your life. And you think, well, not really, because that kind of implies a life that I wanted to be completely changed before Game of Thrones. And I didn't really. There's a lot about my life that I really liked.

And I've managed to keep hold of a lot of that. I just thought, I thought first class was you've got a little bit more leg room and you maybe could get an extra bag of peanuts if there was any spare, if you asked nicely. The first time I went first class was one of the most. most memorable experiences of my life. Yes, because I was going first class. But also, I remember this so vividly. It's like a film that I can play in my mind. And where were you going? Were you going? I was going to, uh, L.A. and then San Diego for the first Comic Con I did. First Game of Thrones. Yeah, for 2013. Thank you very much. Age Bureau of Payne. Yeah, thank you very much. Draining every last drop out of it, Manchester style. I was on my own in

the first class compartment and I said, it looks like I've got first class all to myself. What could be better than that. Well, I'll tell you what could be better than that. What actually happened next? I was sat there reading or something. A figure passed me walking down the aisle. He turned this man to put something in the overhead locker and it was literally a cinematic tilt up. I started at his feet, tattooed arms came into the equation and he was wearing quite a fitted white t-shirt so I could see that he was, you know that thing where you can tell somebody is somebody before you know they are? Yeah. Like I could tell that this man was somebody. So I went up his body, a bit of tattoo poking out of the neck of his t-shirt, bang up to the face, lock onto the face,

and it was David Beckham. Oh, wow. I couldn't, I just couldn't believe it. And how long's the flight? It's about 11 hours. Right. So it's just him? The entire family were there. He was there and Victoria were there and all the kids were there. You got all of them. And yeah, all of them, all of them all in one place. So what I like is that you've gone into such forensic detail over what David Beckham was wearing. Oh, it wouldn't be a white t-shirt when Victoria Beckham was sitting there. Oh, yeah, I know.

I know. To be fair, I only noticed her later because I just couldn't take my eyes off him. Because you're a Man United fan. A huge Man United fan. And also a Man United fan when he was at the very peak of his powers as well. Kind of late 90s and early 2000s. And so I just thought, I feel. I felt like I really did feel like a kind of man on the inside.

It turns out I was the only person in the cabin that wasn't part of that group. Right. So I thought, oh God, what happens now? And I was reading an NME special about the Stone Roses, I remember. I was reading that. And I know that David's a fan of the Stone Roses. So I was kind of reading it at a strange angle, kind of opening it in his direction so you can see what I was reading, hoping he'd say, can I bavillende your magazine? Nothing.

Nothing. Also preying deep down that he watched Game of Thrones, but, you know, I think he does now. I'm not sure he did them. Oh, I hope he does. Maybe you'll hear this. So anyway, so they all settle down. And I was just thinking, if you told me when I was 10 years old, that I would be two feet away from my hero, you know, in however many years' time, I just wouldn't have been able to believe it. Yeah. And when you experience people who have huge public profiles, when you have the privilege of experiencing them, kind of domesticated, if you know what I mean. Okay, yeah.

You see them in a very privileged position where you actually don't see them how the world sees them. Because he's not going to put on a show for me, for one person. He's in his family. I'm kind of an interloper into that family. And you just get a slightly more of a... a measure of them. Yeah.

And like, I have to say, I was so bold over by him as a dad. Why? What was he like? There was a girl. Oh, Harper, a little girl, yeah. He was probably about three then. Yeah, okay. She was being a little bit restless. Okay.

Just a little bit restless. Well, I'd be restless if I was there with David Beck. I was the one getting restless. And there was a moment where he was trying to pacify her, and he had her on his knee. and he was saying, now be good. You're really going to have to be good now.

You're going to have to be good. We're going to take off in a minute. And it wasn't really working. And then I heard him say, no, you're going to have to be good. Otherwise, the man will come and tell you to get off. I felt like saying, David, you're the man.

How can David Beck, when are you not the man? And what I liked about that was that's exactly the same tactic that my dad used on me. This mythical figure of the man. going to come storming down the plane and bust a few heads. No matter how globally is, he doesn't have as much respect in that family as some mythical man who works for British Airways. Like he could go up in my estimation anymore.

I just saw him as a dad and not a global icon and he's a brilliant dad and a very nice man. I think that's the thing is when you see someone off duty, and I think when you're aware that there's a kind of an... I'm really sorry about it. Ray, it's like going out of someone who smokes 40 a day. Because he just stopped and tried to eat a cigarette. And now he smells of fags. Smell him, he smells of fags.

Oh my God. He really does. That's horrible. It's like going out of Mickey Rourke or something. That's such a lovely story, John, because I love things like that. And I think you're right. And I think seeing people as they are when they're not kind of on display like that and just getting an insight into them as real people.

Yeah. Because you realize that's who they are. Because I think that that's what they are. Because I think that that's a mistake, not a mistake, but that's a confusion that a lot of people have. And I remember my dad, when I first started to act and stuff, I think that when I went to drama school, my dad expected me to come out speaking like Eddie Redmayne or something.

It expected me to be quite posh when I came out of drama school. And he was confused as to why I wasn't, like why I was still basically me. Yeah. And he used to say things like, do you know that Ian McKellen? I go, yes, Dad. He said, you know what, in real life he's really interesting. Like in real life, he tells a story, it's just got a voice you want to listen to for hours. I thought, where have you encountered Ian McKellen in real life?

He said, oh, I saw him on Parking. Right. He's thinking, that's not real life, Dad. The difference between being on display at all and not being on display at all. Yes. Because you're not acting doesn't mean that you're not putting on some kind of performance. For example, I found myself for a while when I met people, especially when you're associated with one character, especially if that character is an extreme, like Sam's kind of extremely nice. Yeah. You find yourself going around being quite surly with people just to show that you've got some rain.

Yeah. Do you think that because I think your character Sam is a... If anyone, again, doesn't watch Game with Friends, he's very nice, he's a very good person, he's kind, he's... Does that feel like a bit of an albatross around your neck sometimes? Yeah, it really does. I think that people see you and they associate you with that. And therefore, they think that makes you more accessible to them. I didn't mean that in a kind of...

No, no, no, I know. What I mean, I suppose, by that is... It's a bit like, you know, David Tennant when he was Doctor Who, I remember he always used to say, when you have an encounter with someone, when you're playing a character, a huge kind of iconic character like that, if you have an encounter with someone

and you're too busy to have a photo taken or you can't ruin the time, then that's ruining the character for them. Oh, yeah. So there's more of a sense of responsibility when you're playing, in a way, like a character in Game of Australia. Yeah, if somebody says to me,

you're exactly like your character. What they mean by that is you seem very nice in person. Yeah. But what I take that to mean is you've got no skill as an actor. Oh, John. I take that to mean as you play,

you just play yourself in that, don't you? The glass isn't half full, is it, John, someone stole it? I take that as criticism on some strange, delicate ego level. I say, no, it's acting. Thank you very much. So you don't drink, do you? No, I don't.

And why is that? It's a lot of things. The most immediate reason that I don't drink is that I really don't like the taste of any of it. Okay. At all. But I never buy that because no one likes the taste. There's been a lot of drink in my family, in my dad's side. before I was born and his dad drank.

My dad stopped drinking because I was born. And my dad told me a story that when he was at a very low ebb with his drinking, I don't know how religious he was at the time, but he prayed for a girlfriend and a son when he was at a really low ebb. And he said, if I have a girlfriend and a son, I'd be able to sort myself out and I'll never be the same again. Wow. I'll never be the same again.

And I was born about 18 months later and he met my mom. Now, I'm not saying that that's evidence of anything, because it really isn't, but the story is true. And so it's difficult to believe that people have the kind of self-esteem issues that I've had in my life when they're brought up to believe that they're basically a direct gift from the Almighty. And that was something that made me feel very special. So when he had you, he never drunk after that? Once or twice. And was he an alcoholic, your dad?

I think he probably was. But that's kind of, it's almost helped in a way the fact that he now knows that if he was to drink again it would be the start of a very steep kind of downward spiral. Yeah. So he just doesn't touch it at all and he doesn't miss it at all.

And I think he just thinks that it was a lot of wasted time. So would you ever drink, no? No. No. Is that it for life now? Yeah, I think so. I don't think that I've, I don't think that I've missed out on anything. In fact, I, I, and also, I'm lucky to have a group of friends that don't really need it to, they don't need a kind of chemical boost for atmosphere.

You know what I mean? They all seem to be really nice and, and no. What about the game of phones a lot? Do they drink? Yeah, they do, they do drink socially. And, and I've, I've found my place in that, really. I found my place and now they just don't bother asking me anymore. They don't say anymore.

But, you know, saying that you don't like the taste of it is quite a handy way of getting out of any further questions. Because they say, you know. Well, that's why I picked you up on it. Yeah. Because I know when people say, oh, I don't like the taste of it. I always think, well, no one likes the taste of alcohol. No one likes the taste of cigarettes.

I mean, I'm not advocating. I'm not saying, come on, you need to get over this. Yeah. For some reason, we do push the hell on through because you want to be cool, you want to fit in. And I think that's interesting. I think people that reach, you know, you're what, 28? Yeah. And I think people that reach this point in life and do it in a very sociable job and a very kind of cool show.

Yeah. You're socialising. You're a member of Soho House. All that stuff that goes hand in hand with drinking and socialising. It takes a strength of character, I think, to say no. Yeah. I don't mind if people say, I'm on cool and square because I'm just having a diet. Well, that's genuine rebellion now to not do that.

It's the same way that, you know, kind of 50 years ago, if you had a tattoo, you were seeing as somebody who's saying, right, I'm never going to be a part of society. I'm marking myself out as somebody who doesn't subscribe to society. And I'm going to wear that as a badge of honour. Now, one of my best friends, he's a, I think he's a rep for a cleaning. chemicals company or something, married with a young wife and a mortgage, he's got two tattoo sleeves. And you think you're about as far away from a kind of alternative lifestyle as you can imagine. Well, tattoos are about as alternative as beards now.

Yeah, exactly. I say, now I feel really bad because you have a beard. Well, yeah. But in fairness, yours isn't a hipster beard. It's a fantasy beard. Oh, well, thanks very much for what kind of easy to say. I, yeah, but that's the thing. what was seen to be accoutrements of the rebellious,

it's become so mainstream that genuine rebels find it hard to find a way of rebelling. And my way of rebellion is to drink Diet Coke and go home at 10. Because I think the expectation of you to stay out until 3 o'clock drinking, what's that I think called Lefroid, whatever it's called, I just think that the pressure on you to do that and to live that lifestyle becomes so part of the mainstream. And I've seen people drinking whiskey. And every time I've tasted whiskey,

it's like the reaction that you get when you taste whiskey when you were about four. When you just can't believe how anybody can possibly drink that. Well, that's because it is like you drinking it at four, I guess, isn't it? Yeah, I've got a very immature mouth. It's an interesting kind of fame you've got, isn't it? Because on the one hand, you've got... Yeah.

You can sort of walk down the street. Yeah. Without being completely hassled. Yeah. But then Barack Obama knows who you are. Yeah. He watches the show, doesn't he? That's really weird.

It does seem to be... That is the flattering thing, though, when you think about it, the fact that, you know, Mr. Obama watches it, and I got invited to... I like how respectful you are, Mr. Obama. What, I'm supposed to call him? Barak? I can't call him, Barack. He's such a casual prez, he was.

No, he was. He's a Barack, isn't he? Yes, no, he is. Mr. Obama. Mr. B. Mr. B. O. Did David Cameron watch it? Did David Cameron watch it?

A few of us got invited to a reception at number 10 a couple of years ago. Oh, I'm sorry for your loss. How was that? Going to number 10? It was, it was another one of those moments that you think, you know, shouldn't really be happening or can't really be happening. I didn't go to drama school and then say, why do you, when in the enrolment, they say, why do you want to come to? drama school and I said I want to be inside number 10 in five years. So who was that? It was, well, some very exciting people for me because of my kind of

cultural references. I don't, I very ready to get excited when I go to comic con and Tom Cruise is there. I got excited because Ronnie Corbett was there. You know when a face comes out of your childhood and you suddenly encounter them in reality, I couldn't quite believe it. It was another David Beckham moment really. David Beckham and Ronnie Corbett are my two poster boys. Well, it's interesting because I suppose your sister's a lot older, isn't she? So... Yeah, my sister's 13 years older than me.

Yeah. So it's almost like, I think you have a lot of the cultural reference points of a generation X. Yeah, I think so too. Rather than a millennial. I think that also is a result of staying in a lot. My sister, I talk about stuff from my sister's generation that she doesn't understand because you were never in. It's nice the way it's worked out though, because you'd think that because there's that gap between me and my sister that I've kind of been conned out of having a sibling. But luckily enough, you know, my nephew's only four years younger than I am, which means that I've kind of got a sibling role, but from a slightly kind of convoluted way around.

So we're so close. We're as close as brothers are, I think. Some people say that when you become famous, it's not you that changes, it's the people around you. Do you think anyone is different with you? It's weird, it's weird that. Because I think that that works for people who are slightly more casual acquaintances. Okay, yeah. Casual acquaintances will text you for the first time in years and say, how are you doing?

Would you like a drink? I watch your show and I really like it. Right. With my closest friends, or my closest friends from pre-game of Thrones, I genuinely think, this may be unfriend. This may be unfair, but I genuinely think that they're trying so hard not to change. Yeah. That it's actually becoming really quite stubborn and dark.

What do you mean? Because, well, this is the thing that I have people from high school that I've not spoken to, getting in touch and saying I really like the show, congratulations, you know, blah blah, blah. Three of my best best friends from childhood and uni, I've never seen an episode. of it and I've pretended for years that it's fine but I just I am a little bit hurt by it they I think that they don't want to watch it because then they'll like it and then they think that they'll make them one of those people as in a false new frame yeah as in people who turn up and just want to talk about that and

they come up it's the excuses I mean they come up with excuses like I was enjoying it and then you came on and ruined it they say to you? And I go, what do you mean? Well, they say, well, don't take offense. I went, well, you know, if I do take offense, it'll be on my terms. And then they go, no, no, you ruin it because I'm really, I've really bought into it. And then you come on and you take me out of it.

Right. But you destroy it and I think, oh, come off it. I don't believe it. It sounds like an actor making up excuses for why he's not learned his lines. But do you think, actually, John, thinking about that, I can, can sort of see from the outside that that is perhaps, perhaps, that is them just, as you say, trying to almost oddly reassure you that we're not interested in that. We don't care that you're an actor, we don't buy into that. And I appreciate that it might, it's a very

convoluted way of essentially saying we like the real you. Yeah, and I guess so. I've always been so cool about it. I've always said, no, it's fine. Don't worry about it. I think he shows a lack of faith in me that I think I'll change if suddenly they start to say they like what I do. Trust me to know the difference between you and Johnny come late Liz. Ray's met a little dog. It looks like a Jack Russell maybe. Little Jack Russell and this is what happens to Ray. Have you noticed? Yeah. Well I think he seems very keen and then when they go he gets over it alarmingly quickly. He seems to recover.

He seemed to recover alarmingly quickly. John, tell me about what you were like as a little boy. I knew that I wanted to be a performer before I really knew that it was a job. Because we weren't from a very kind of, we were from quite a lowbrow family really. We didn't go to the theatre really. We didn't even watch dramas on telly.

We watched comedies mainly, like sitcoms. And so I remember watching things like Faulty Towers and they made me feel so happy that I thought, I want to do whatever that guy is doing. Whatever that is. Whatever that's called, I want to do that and I want to make people feel the way he's making me feel. And so were you sort of putting on shows

and, you know, were you an extrovert? Well, I used to try and surprise them. I'd go out into the hall like I was just going for a drink or something. And then apparently, I say apparently, I remember this. I used to come back in in like my mum, like a costume that I'd made for myself. What was the costume? By one of my mum's coats and like and her, but basically my mum's clothes. Basically now I think about it, I just used to dress up in my mum's clothes.

It was never any of my dad's clothes. I used to dress up and come in and I used to say to them, I used to be in the hall and I used to say, can you announce me? So I'd want them to say, ladies and gentlemen, will you please welcome? John. And then I'd burst in like I was coming on stage and I'd stand there and I'd soak up the applause. And then I'd have nothing. I'd have nothing to say. So your act was opening the door? It's not like that I came in and did a show. I just wanted the adulation of the entrance.

But what I like as well is that you've given yourself a stage name like Madonna, which is a one word stage. Oh yeah, I know. It's John. It's not unusual. It's Don. I know. You into, oh, Madonna, see ya, John.

But never did I think, and even when I was at drama school doing plays and things, I never thought that I'd be doing quite serious drama on screen. And you're a drummer, aren't you as well? Yeah, which. You were on Bring the Noise? I wasn't bringing the noise. Yeah. That was one thing that I wanted to keep.

Not a secret. Oh, sorry. But I was quite, no, no, not going on bring the noise. I was going to say, you want to. Don't bring the noise. I, uh, for heaven's sake. Yeah, the drumming was something that I just wanted to keep to myself. I didn't want it to be part of my CV.

I didn't really want to open it up. And I think it was because I just wanted to keep some things that were quite, that I had quite a pure connection with. Right, okay. And drumming's one of them because I do think... You didn't want to go on to, you know, celebrity stars in their eyes. star in their eyes as Phil Collins. No, exactly that.

Just that kind of thing. Or people. In the air tonight? Because whenever anyone does anything, Phil Collins, they only do in the air. That's what I did on Bring the Noise. That's not forget. It was, yeah.

Oh, no, how embarrassing? It's what I did on bring the noise, yeah. You don't want to be doing something like, in the air tonight on the TV program. Who on earth would want to be doing something like that? I've really put my foot on it. I'm so sorry. Oh, that's right.

But I do like to keep something very, that are quite close to me. And drumings a bit like that, like that as well drumming's not like playing the guitar where it's a kind of academic thing where you can read books about it and practice your scales so drumming's just a really instinctive thing it's a very instinctive thing and it's a very physical thing so talk me to it you've got season seven of game of throne season seven's on in a few months yeah later than usual and have you got quite a big you've got a big part in this on I can't well I can't you can't say I can't really say so much but I think that I think that the thing about Sam is

You know, if he's still around at this stage, you do suspect that there is going to be a point to keeping him around. You know what I mean? I see, I'm taking that as a spoiler alert. No. Don't take that as a spoiler alert. Don't take that as anything. This is the glory of it.

I don't know. Jim Broadbent's in this. He is in this one, yeah. And that's a huge compliment and a huge testament to the reach of the show and how proper actors are taking it seriously. as an acting job which can be quite difficult for fantasy things to be taken seriously as drama and i think since day one game of thrones has shown that you know you can do drama in the fantasy genre there's actually very serious psychological drama you've got one more series then after this and

then is that it for good game of throat i think so so how do you feel about that are you nervous so it's it's coming it's going to come to an end and i think that'd be easier for actors that had had huge careers. Yeah. Or just on anything else of note really, then arrived at Game of Thrones as part of their career because there's a before and there's an after. Yeah.

But for me, there's... So if you're Charles Dance, this was one stop-off in a long career. In a long career. But for me, there's no before. I've never been a professional actor and not being in Game of Thrones. It's exciting though, right? It is exciting.

Should we sit on this bench, John? Yeah. So before we finish, John? I wanted to, in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't bring this up earlier because I didn't want the whole podcast to be about this. Yeah. But I thought we should just chat a bit

about how you and I, well, you and I used to date, didn't we? We did. Yeah. Oh, that was you. Yeah, no, we did. And we're really good friends now. Yeah. I wanted to just sort of talk about that

because we split up a couple of years ago. Yeah. And when we went out, there was a big age gap there still is and it's one of those weird things where we ended on really good terms and yeah you know it's nice to know that it can be like this and I think and I think that when we when we were going out together and and you know immediately after we knew that we wanted to be part of each other's lives and and you know we there was never there was never it was a very short not very

short relationship but a very kind of intensive relationship but you know what I think John for me anyway I remember reading Alan de Botton oh yeah on this because I love him as you know yeah and he once said something he was talking about he says you can't be friends with exes he says it's a really bad idea and the reason for that is that you know you're basically you're not acquiring a friend you're acquiring a torturer and what's interesting is I sort of agree with him but I think in everyone's life that's true, but there's normally one exception. Yeah. And I think you're my exception.

But I think certainly in the case of us, I felt, yeah, we've really managed to make it work, haven't we? And for me, it was because I think in the aftermath of the breakup, you behaved so classily. Like you went off social media and you just really kept your head down. I just think that because I've never made any bones about or any excuses for the fact that it was my fault. It was completely my fault and I think if it's your fault, you have to demonstrate that you've, that you're atoning for it.

We had, you know, discussions about it and a lot of people try and wriggle out of guilt. But I really put myself through the wringer with guilt. Good. No, no, I did. How brilliant to hear. But I think it was quite a cleansing. You know, I love, the producers are looking so awesome. looking so awkward now.

One has got his head in his hands virtually, and the elder just can't even maintain eye contact. Sitting here with two people talking about why they broke up. Yeah. But, you know, I like that. But it's, I think that I found that quite a cleansing thing, and I've always reacted to guilt like that. I believe in suffering.

I really, I do. And I was going up to people who, and explained everything. And then they'd been friends, they went, yeah, well, maybe. I was like, no, no, no, no, maybe about it. I've been despicable. And as a result... You weren't that bad.

Well, but it was... I've had people do much worse to me and not even apologise. Well... You know, I remember when we were dating, it was interesting insight to me as well about millennials get a really bad press. Yeah. And I'm glad I dated a millennial because that made me realize how much I liked them. And how I think, interesting me, when we were going out,

there was an age gap and there still is that hasn't changed but there was an age gap and I was aware that what was weird is that not my close circle of friends because they're all great but when we would go to events we went to the baffirs once we sat on this table with these people from the radio times who were very nice but there were some people there and they were all kind of middle age they're all in their four seasonings and all of them were quite suspicious and a bit where did you meet while you two together I felt they were sort of suggesting that I was with you because you were on telly and And it was just a bit odd. And what's weird is your friends, like Kit Harrington and Gwen, your friend,

and all of your Game of Thrones friend were just so lovely. And it was not an issue, our age, which I thought was interesting. No, it wasn't an issue. And I do think that that comes from a certain confidence that millennials have. They just don't question, and they're so accepted of stuff. And they believe in people. and they believe that people don't have quite as much subtext and ulterior motives. And I think that they, and also I think that they were just very happy for me as well.

Because they could tell by the way I was talking about you that I was happy. And they knew that happiness for me then was a kind of quite a hard thing to come by at the time. Do you think also it's because they maybe view relationships in a slightly different way. so they view relationships. They're much more open-minded. I don't want to be slagging off Generation X's and Baby Boomers because I'm one of you and I love you. And I suspect you've got dogs

and you're listening to this podcast. So I don't want to alienate you, point one. And also, but I think what it is to do with is just, it was just nice for me to feel, there were different reactions. But I think, you know, sometimes people react to you and it was surprising to me, just a different sort of reaction.

that we had. But you know, look, the important thing is I'm just so happy that we've managed to stay. But it was nice, it was nice to say to those people. It was nice that when those people were asking that question about us, those people at the Bafters, that we were able to, you know, answer them honestly. Oh, I seem to remember we just got a cab and left because he found them really irritated. Yeah, we did, but that comes from a security of, because we knew the reasons why we were together. We didn't have to prove it to anybody else. Don't know what I mean?

Yeah. If there was any kind of if there was any kind of strangeness going on then you'd feel the need to explain yourself away but because we knew that we were together for as right a reason as you can ever be with someone Yeah.

We just felt that we, you know, we knew the truth and so we didn't really care about anybody else. Well, I see it as one of those lovely things that, like I say, it's very rare and I think it's very, it's quite unusual to stay friends with an ex just because I'm not sure you should return to the crime scene. But I think it's an example for me anyway of how if things are handled really well,

it's possible. Yeah, definitely. If, if that, you know, well, the thing that helped, I think, was we had a period of time after where there was no kind of contact at all. I think that's a great thing to do. I think that it'd be quite tempting for me as the guilty part. to keep sending emails and trying to phone you up and checking in to see how you are and seeing what the lay of the land is. But I just thought, no, she's, Em's going to be angry and she's got the right to be angry. And because it was my fault, I have surrendered my right to have any influence about how this works out. I've given, the ball is completely in her court and I have to respect any way that she wants to react.

You know, you either have the rights to the story or you don't. And the injured party always has the rights to the story and has the right to work out how it carries on in the future. And I think that was... Well, I'm glad I've got the rights to the story because I'm planning on writing a movie. And HBO are interested. Are you up for it?

Oh, playing myself as self. As himself? Don Bradley? Yeah, yeah. What do you think? I like it. Can I have editorial on it? You haven't seen the script yet?

No. I hope you enjoyed walking the dog. Thank you for listening. And don't forget to subscribe on iTunes. Otherwise, no treats for you.