Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - John Robins (Part One)

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

This week Emily and Ray head to the Buckinghamshire countryside for a walk with comedian, podcaster and writer John Robins.John is best known for his award-winning stand-up and his long-running partnership with fellow comedian Elis James, as well as his brilliantly competitive turn on Taskmaster. On the walk, he chats to Emily about his childhood growing up near Bristol, his time at Oxford where he briefly considered becoming a poet, and his early days in comedy, including sharing a flat with Jon Richardson and Russell Howard.They also talk about John’s powerful and deeply personal new memoir Thirst: 12 Drinks That Changed My Life, which explores his relationship with alcohol and his journey into recovery and sobriety. It’s a beautifully written, funny and moving read, and is out on May 7th, available to pre-order now. It’s a thoughtful, honest and very funny conversation, with John bravely navigating both the countryside and the realities of dog ownership, while Ray does his best to win him over.Follow Emily:Instagram X Walking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Could we throw him ahead? And when we catch up, just pick him up and throw him... Like an American football. He's about that size. I think you've been a really gross love, Ray. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I headed to Buckingham shirt to take a walk with comedian, podcaster and writer John Robbins. Now, I won't lie, John's initial response when I asked him if he'd come on Walking the Dog was, oh Lord, that will put my anti-dog agenda to the test.

But he seemed very reassured once I pointed out that Raymond isn't actually a dog. He's basically a very strange silent e-wock. So John is obviously best known for his work as an award-winning comedian and his long-running partnership with fellow comic Ellis James across radio and podcasting and who can forget his fabulously over-competitive stint on Taskmaster. But he's also had a really interesting life, which I couldn't wait to chat to him about, From his childhood growing up near Bristol to his experiences at Oxford University,

where he briefly entertained the idea of being a poet, to his move into stand-up comedy, which at one point saw him sharing a flat for John Richardson and Russell Howard. We also chatted about John's new memoir, Thirst, 12 drinks that changed my life, which tells the story of his addiction to alcohol and the journey he's taken into recovery and sobriety. It's one of those books you genuinely run. won't be able to put down, mainly because it's so compelling and beautifully written, but it's also brilliantly funny. So I cannot recommend it enough. It's out on May the 7th, so do make sure to pre-order your copy now. Ray and I had a lovely time with John walking

through the Buckinghamshire countryside, and even though John was slightly horrified by some of the tasks involved in dog ownership, he literally had to avert his eyes when he saw me picking up one of Raymond's poos. I'd like to think, that Raymond worked his magic and John is now at least 13% more tolerant of dogs. And Raymond is quietly confident he can get this man up to 100% with repeated exposure. So all I can say is brace yourself, John. Really hope you enjoy our chat. Here's John and Ray, Ray.

Come on, Ray. Oh, John, already I'm loving this walk. It's sunny. I'm in this beautiful village. And you don't seem to hate Ray, which is good. He's very docile. It's sort of like a non-existent dog. It's like he's not there. But that's your dream dog in many ways.

Yeah. Yeah, sort of an invisible dog who's not there who doesn't make any noise or exist. That's my dream dog. Well, there you go. But maybe a picture of a dog. One of the loveliest starts I've had to an interview, because you welcomed us in. You made us coffee.

Yeah. Not only coffee, but you not only made us coffee, but you said, do you want it to go? That's an expecting Starbucks, John. Well, I got my keepy cups, thousands of keepy cups, because it's good for the environment. Yeah. What you do is every time you forget your keepy cup, you buy another one. Same with tote bags and bags for life. Yeah.

So I've probably got a thousand bags. for life, a thousand tote bags and a thousand high metal and high plastic containing keepy cups and that's going to get us through all this I think and we should say we're in we're allowed to say where we are we're in Buckinghamshire okay and Buckinghamshire it seems pretty idyllic here it's very Cranford it's very he was on 300 a year mr Darcy do you know what I mean it's got that vibe about it which I love Yeah, and I'm not, is it one of the home counties? Yes, I think it is.

Is it? What are the home counties? I call them the potions. Because I guess I'm now sort of part of the problem, but I'm keen to stress I'm not from the home counties. No, you're a Bristol boy, aren't you? Yeah. Well, there's another dog coming out of the house. Now I think you'd be a bit funny with those dogs because that's a big boy.

Oh, it's big dog country around here. Is it? Which is why, I mean, everyone always tells me I should just say, I should be a bit of you. always tells me I should get a cat. I see you as a cat person. Big cat guy. I can see you a cat guy. But I just don't know.

I've only ever seen two or three cats. I've lived here 10 years. I've probably seen quarter of a million dogs. Oh, John? Two or three cats. Quarter of a million dogs. Easily, easily quarter of a million dogs. Do you know, I'd buy that book if you called it that?

Really? Yeah. So Ray's not really doing much walking at the minute. Well, that's because I'm worried he's going to stop and we haven't got to... I mean, look, this is how he will walk. I need to take him off the loop. He will do this every second, John. It will drive you mad.

It's like a slug. Yeah. Yeah, it's one way of describing him. Look. He looks and moves and has the hair of a sloth. He really is like a sloth. It's extraordinary how sloth-like he is. Yeah.

He's really nothing like a dog. Do you see why that's why I was carrying him? Yeah, we need to pick him up or put him on wheels. Do you get it? It was a politeness thing. Can he drive? Has he got his own transport? Oh he's doing a poo-poo.

Oh God, it's all the worst thing in the world. Is the poo-poo? It's just God. Jesus Christ. Can I just say, John Robbins is actually walking away from me. Well, yeah, I think that's something that's something that unites the human races that we all walk away from excrement. Stay me.

Don, look away now. And you're now going to carry that for what, an hour? John. Can you imagine that? Imagine saying I'm going to hold excrement in a bag for two hours a day for the rest of this animal's life. Yeah, but you know what? People always say to me how... I see people swinging it around.

Jesus Christ. Awful, awful business. It is a lot. an awful business but at least you picked it up are you going to sling that in a hedge now like no for the rest of them do i'm not i'm so responsible with my dogs you're going to are you going to leave that on the buy a bin and accidentally on purpose forget to pick it up on your way back you hate it when people do that the weirdest thing i saw once was some people coming out of some woods holding bulging dog poop bags with no dog yeah right maybe they would

See, John, do you see... Yeah, you've got to pick him up, I think. Come on, Ray. Do you know what Ray has taught me? You are? Do you know what I think Ray has taught me? Is... And it's one of the things, I think, because he's a slow dog,

I've had to move at his face. It's like sort of navigating a difficult partner or something. Do you know what I mean? Could we throw him ahead? And when we catch up, just pick him up and throw him... like an American football he's about that size I think you're going to really gross love Ray well we need to discuss because when I asked you because I'd read your brilliant book which we're going to discuss first and I was genuinely blown away by it John thank you and I messaged you

to tell you that I'm not just saying that for the purposes of the podcast but when I asked if you'd come on I did acknowledge the elephant in the room I said I know you don't like dogs. No. And you didn't, you didn't lie and say, no, don't be silly. I love them because that's not your way. You were on. You said, yeah, well, we'll see. And I said, I think Ray might change your mind. I mean, I think a lot of what, a lot of what I don't like about dogs is stuff I don't like about a percentage of dog owners, e.g. leaving plastic bags of dog shit in the hedge or in a beautiful area or a place we're about to walk past on the railings of a school playground. Yeah. And so that obviously is awful. I don't though I have changed my sort of

outlook on this. I don't like noise and I don't like sudden noise. But a neighbour of mine, So it was almost my worst nightmare that a neighbour would get a loud dog that was sort of barking all day while they were out. And my neighbour, one of my neighbours did get one. And they were sort of training it up and doing that thing where you let it bark. So it would bark from like six in the morning. And luckily this came at a point of my life when I was sort of looking at my way of reacting to the world. Yeah. And I was like, either this becomes your worst nightmare, or you just accept it. And, you know, the dog's not going to bark any less if you're annoyed about it.

So you might as well just accept it. So I was like, okay, let's see this as a spiritual exercise. Luckily, another neighbour got so annoyed that she eventually had to get rid of the dog. But, and I felt really bad because, you know, it's like, kid crying on an airplane. No one, you know, no one wants that, but that's life, isn't it? Kids cry, dogs bark. And this person wasn't doing anything to like make the dog bark. It's just a stage you have to go through, I guess, in the puppy bit. Yeah. But you would never get anything like that from a cat.

No, this is true. Well, then that's why, I mean, I'm not great with noise. I really don't like sudden noise, like sudden impact noise. Yeah. And I'm not great with incestant dog barking. But that's why I got a dog who wasn't going to present me with that issue. Yeah. Yeah, so when you were growing up, this is in Stormbury, isn't it?

Yes. And just outside Bristol, is it? Yeah. And it was originally, before you were, Before your parents divorced it was they were together obviously and it was you and your sister and you didn't have it wasn't an animal household. Four cats. Oh you had the cats. I'm not saying I don't count the cats but it wasn't a doggy household. He always had four cats so whenever a cat died it would be replaced. The glory is was George who was a ginger cat who lost half his

We think he got bitten by a fox. Really? Prisca and Coco, who had two Siamese, that we found out when we looked at their certificates were half-sisters and they were inseparable for their whole lives. And Prisca died and two weeks later Coco walked out into the road, the road she'd lived by for ten years. We think it was a... she took her own life. Honestly, she'd just meowed out and meowed and meowed as soon as Prisker died. And Kitty, who was my cat, who was a sort of a mix of Russian blue and tabby, the most beautiful flex of ginger in a sort of blue-grey coat.

And then that was when I moved out. So always had four cats. And I was thinking about this the other day. When my, after my dad left, some friends or friends of a friend, had a dog that needed a home. It was a black lab called Wellington. I would have been about eight. Yeah.

And I was just begging my mum to let me have this dog. And I think she thought it was like too much responsibility for her, obviously. She's a single mum with two kids and four cats and three jobs. And we didn't get it. And then about four years later, when we moved him with my stepdad, he had a black dog. And it was the most docile. relatively thick dog you could imagine but I think maybe just being in a house I didn't really enjoy living in with a dog it became to it came to sort of represent I was going to

say I wondered changes in my life that I wasn't particularly keen on and just all the stuff with dogs you know this they do smell and they do bark and they dribble and they and in a way that cats seem to sort of be a bit more I don't know clean more self-sufficient and also I think whenever I meet a dog I listened to a song the other day he's talking about how when you look into a dog's eyes it's sometimes you see a human looking back at you yeah I've never had that experience it's like they have no interior monologue whereas cats are like all interior monologue and I think I'm a bit like that he's coming over to you John I think

getting out of the way of the car. Oh yeah. I think he also I think he's drawn to you because he can sense your slight disapproval. Yeah I do have a bit of that. Would you like your coffee? Oh yes I'd love it. Thank you so much. I have to press the little button. Ray, follow John, come on. Well I'm still holding out hope for you and Ray. I mean I don't dislike him. That's really good. There's nothing to dislike about him really. He's very um, But on the dog scale, would you say you find him less difficult to be around than some other dogs? Oh yeah. That would be really nice compliment to go home with.

Yeah, definitely. And also, like I've known people in the past with dogs where my sister's got three dogs and their golden retrievers. How do you find them? Not for me, but then you become the sort of, you become the problem because, you know, they have to be. moved from room to room to avoid you. And I think that's very interesting, John, because that did occur to me as well. I hope you don't mind me kind of leaping to that conclusion.

When I read your book, you know, just when you write about your childhood home and the house felt like it was sometimes a difficult place for you to be in when you were growing up. And as soon as you talked about your step-down, You talked about your stepdad having a dog. I thought, yeah, that dog came to represent a lot, I imagine, for you.

Yeah, and I think when I was alone in the house, I felt very calm and relaxed. And I sort of looked forward to those moments where I could, you know, I just felt like I could breathe. Yeah. And taking the dog for a walk was a big part of when I got to be on my own. When he was taking the dog to walk, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

So when the dog wasn't around that represented piece for you. Yeah. I get it totally. But you know the cats would be around but you wouldn't know. They might jump on your bed or they might be asleep in the garden. Yeah. Well, we'll see how it goes with Ray. But I was saying to you earlier in your kitchen, he's the only dog that David

Dale will be around. David Badil's not a dog fan. In fact, he's a self-styled cat man now. Well, he's got a lot of sort of, he's got a little cat industry, hasn't he? With, is it a TV show and a podcast or? Cat industry. He's sort of, Frank Skinner was saying, do we have to just call him catman forever now? He's on a show called Catman. Does that mean what? That's what we actually, as his friends, have to call him. He's cat man. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm so thrilled in spite of, I'm not going to call it hatred of dogs, because it doesn't feel from how you've explained it to me, it just feels like maybe a slight weariness around dogs. Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I don't hate dogs. No. I don't want to be counsel for God's saying. I don't like, I think I don't like things that are, I don't like sort of neediness.

It was nice knowing you, John. Here's your coffee. I won't be in touch again. But when you walk into a house and a dog just runs and jumps up and it dominates the room and people are holding onto their mugs because it's wagging its tail

and you think it's too big for this space. This needs to be in a sort of aircraft hangar with loads of stuff. Not in a two up, too down. Like, you know, when inevitably, because TV's just got bigger and bigger. Everyone has TVs, but you can't actually appreciate

because you can't sit far back enough for the resolution to work. It's like a dog on a farm makes sense, like a big dog running around a farm yard. But a sort of like a Labrador in a small flat or a small, it's too much, man, get out of my grill. Yeah, I know what you mean. Well, that's partly the reason why I get a small dog

Because I knew when I was fast forward into picking up poos, I thought, I don't want, I know. But I see these Labrador poos, I always say it's like picking up Greg Davis's poo. Yeah, but imagine not having to pick up any poo. Like, surely that's the goal, that's the dream. It's like how much poo do you end up living with? How much poo do you want to pick up in your life? Zero. But, you know, praise be to those. who do and dispose of it in an appropriate manner like you well we don't know yet

you've you've still got it on you we don't know whether this is sort of going to be I'm going to find well my producer will verify I'm very vigilant good stuff about it's my it's my worst thing John I can't bear it's when they hang it from a tree they're mad absolutely mad what's the point that's that's excrement you've just put up on on plastic why would you do that to actually chuck it in the woods yeah yeah yeah So I mentioned your book and that was why, well, I wanted to talk to you anyway, because I've been wanting to get you on this podcast for ages. Because I did your podcast with Ellis. Yes.

How do you cope? How do you cope? Which I loved doing that show with you guys. And yeah, I was really impressed by you, I think, and the way you, I remember you asked me a question. and I said, God, no one's ever asked me that. It was about the book I'd written at the time. And you said, see Ellis? See Ellis?

I asked those questions. Yeah, that sounds like the sort of thing I would say. And Ellis went, all right, John, I know. It was a very Ellison John moment. But I do think, I mean, what I like about interviewing people is, because there's so many podcasts and ways to sort of consume people's stories now, it's nice to be able to try and ask someone something they've not been asked before. Yeah.

Well, don't expect that today. You know, we'll see. No, but it's nice to do the research and to think about, like if someone's gone to the trouble of making a documentary or writing a book, like you have to engage with that at some level people are sometimes shot when I interview them

and they say supervets said to me oh did you read it aren't yeah yeah yeah he said oh loads of people don't bother reading it but I mean it's it can be we're quite old school reading the books John we can be quite heavy going at times

like we've got a new series of how do you cope coming out well it'll be out now by the time you hear this and you're reading the book from Kelsey Waghorn who survived the volcano eruption on White Island in New Zealand. Wow. And reading Esther Gay's book about her daughter, Brianna, being murdered.

And you're like, whew, I need to have a go on my crosswords for a bit. Yeah. And all of these books stack up for each series. And I have to sort of pace myself. But I do think someone's going to share their real sort of difficult moments you need to well yeah I read your book with um I read your interview read come here Mary I listen to your interview with Amanda Knox and

you know that's an example of something which I could sort of hear it was it was I found it very affecting as a listener so you know immersing yourself in her experience like that that was the hardest one and that was actually when I realised I needed to take a bit of a break. Really? After that, after recording a few more for that series, I found that whole story so disturbing. Yes. Because what it says about us is kind of disturbing as well. Yeah, and what it said about me, because I remember that case, like around the time I think I was at uni, and I remember looking at a photo of her and thinking, yeah, she did it. And always having assumed

that. Not looking into any details, not reading up about it, just I'd seen a photo where she looked a bit kind of cold and was giving the side eye in court and I thought, well, she's guilty. And then when you actually dig into what she went through, you realise it wasn't just a huge, it wasn't just the system who carried out an enormous miscarriage of justice. It was me. And millions of people like me, especially men. because the idea of a, you know, a sexual, attractive, 18-year-old student is like threatening in a way. I'm threatened by that because part of me is like, why isn't that in my world? Right, right.

So you want to sort of win. And I was sort of going back to 18, 19-year-old me and thinking, God, man, the way you thought about her probably spoke of quite messed up ways that you thought about women in general because of what the 90s did to you. And now we've got in-cell culture, which is obviously different, but it's very interesting that what you're saying is you kind of see where that gets shaped. Totally, totally. The idea that I guess when you're growing up as a young lad that sex is something owed to, to you and if you're not getting it, it must be being withheld from you.

There must be some injustice there. So it was interesting hearing one of these guys, these HS tiki toky whatever his name is. And these guys, the Manosphere guys, one of the things they get angry about is women wearing makeup. They say they're liars, they're liars. They wear makeup. They lie to you, bro.

They lie to you, you wake up. So is that based on the same thing, do you think, this idea of being scammed or cheated by women, I guess? Well, I think it goes back hundreds and thousands of years. You know, women are either saintly, virgin, sort of pious, sort of god-fearing goddesses of perfection or their horse. You know, that's been throughout art, male. art that's the those are the two options for women and it wasn't until women started writing and you know telling their own stories that you're like oh it's actually a person it's actually like a human being that exists and has an interior landscape and

hopes and dreams and regrets and and a body that they have ownership of so to say that a woman wearing makeup is sort of cheating you, it's just part of that tradition of like the succubus or the sort of she's going to trick you out of something. You know, she's going to hand you the apple. Yeah, well, it's great. That you're going to eat from the apple and be condemned. And luring you Odysseus to his fate, good thing, you know, it's all that, isn't it? It might just be because she likes the way it makes her look. I mean, that's another option. She might just like makeup. Come on, Roe, we can't keep stopping. I'll carry him, John, because... I don't mind stopping it, yeah? I'll stop. I

here for the rest of my life. Do you know I feel really peaceful here? It's the best. Do you feel what peaceful when you come here? 100%. This is where I, this is my walk, this is where I go. Oh I love it here. We're just in this beautiful, it's this expansive field and it's just so tranquil here. And you're only 20 minutes drive from High Wycombe. I mean he had to ruin it. He had to add in. There's a Benson's for Beds and a Dreamland on the same industrial estate. We're not... We're not doing a mattress within half an hour. This is a lovely podcast moment, John.

So yes, let's talk about your book, because handily for me, and I tend to go through people's life, relatively chronologically, but handily for me, you sort of done that in your book. And obviously, the conceit you've used is instead of 12 drinks. isn't it and I love the way you've structured that. 12 very significant alcoholic drinks in your life and when you're talking about your childhood as you say you grew up with your parents your parents got divorced and there's one of the moments that I think really struck me early on was I guess you're about seven or

eight and you say you're with a friend and you say I do three things that an alcoholic would do with relation to booze. There's a bottle of wine on the counter. Firstly, I love about alcohol. Yeah, this was when I was around at a friend in my mum's house and I'd say this was one of the first significant interactions I had with alcohol. My dad had left maybe a year earlier and it's an afternoon.

And we were watching a film or something, and one of my mum's friends poured themselves a glass of wine. And we were in the living room and the bottle was in the kitchen. And I just couldn't stop thinking about it there. And I'd always sort of remembered this story as like a lot of the drinks in the book, I'd sort of not really paid enough attention to how significant they were. I'd always thought, oh, doesn't you remember that time you nick that wine? As opposed to going, it's quite odd for a seven-year-old to be sat watching a film. My stepmother is an alien.

And thinking about wine in another room. And yeah, I did three things which in the book I described two of them as alcoholic. One of them is alcoholic. I told a lie. I said I was going to the toilet. and I didn't, I went into the kitchen. I drank from the bottle, poured myself a glass and then mixed it with orange juice to conceal it,

which is another alcoholic trait, is hiding your drinking, and drank on my own. And I guess that's an alcoholic trait, because lots of people drink on their own, doesn't make you an alcoholic, but I was suddenly like, wow you did three quite quite alcoholic things at seven yeah and it was really helpful for me to go back through life to put alcohol in the context of someone who realized they were an alcoholic only

when they stopped drinking yeah because it wasn't until I stopped drinking I actually learnt what an alcoholic is and I think that was probably kept me drinking for a lot longer was the assumption that you know an alcoholic wouldn't be able to hold down a job they yeah you know probably wouldn't get out of bed or leave their house they'd be drinking in the morning they'd have sort of gone to ruin whereas my ruin was a more I mean I did lose work and I did lose relationships but I had a job and a house and it was more a sort of interior ruin Brianie Gordon said something

amazing in her book. Yes. Which is called glorious rock bottoms. Yeah. She said that the vast majority of the impact of my drinking happened inside my own head. And I was like, wow, yeah, that's so true. Yeah. So now, you know, this where we're walking now is such an important part of my head because whenever I get stressed or dead, down or my sort of interior voice gets too angry or critical. I just come out anywhere like this, none of it fucking matters. I mean, literally, what does that tree care about my life?

What does that red kite care? I mean, it doesn't matter. And this is sort of where we're meant to live. We should wake up in the morning and see something like this, not our phone or the news or turn on the rest is politics, which is what I do. and then you're like immediately within two minutes of getting up you're kind of in that oh bloody hell it's all fucked and we're all oh god and the mad people are in charge and this person's getting more likes than me and my thing isn't and no one's listening blah blah blah blah

you're like no I should be opening my window and seeing green and hearing the birds and being part of a cycle of birth and death and growth yeah that reminds me I'm pretty insignificant an awful lot of what I think is important is actually quite insignificant. I'm going to die. I'm going to be, you know, rotting down one day just like these leaves and, you know, those, I mean, it's just, ah, I can't get enough of this. I'm with you, John, and I definitely, I, do you know that was partly why I got a dog because I got a dog after my family died. and I think I realised that when I was outside with him, it was a way of allowing me to feel part of the world but not trapped in it. Yeah, yeah.

Do you know what I mean? I felt trapped so much of the time. You know, going into situations where I'd have to mask and put on a brave face and be happy and whatever. Whereas here it was like, oh yeah, this is real. But it doesn't feel Truman Show real. It feels genuinely real. And also it probably hasn't changed much in forever. Yeah.

Like I imagine if we were stepped out of a time machine and went back a thousand years ago, this would look 99% the same. And it's a reminder to me that no matter how much we abuse the world, the world will win. I love that. Because when we talk about the end of the world, we don't mean the end of the world. We mean the end of people. Come on, Ray. So the atmosphere in your home,

I want to just go back to, you know, what sort of built up, we've mentioned this moment, which looking back, you can only see that in perspective. You're like, yeah, I can read about that moment. And that feels hugely significant, that moment with the wine,

the point when you lied, the point when you concealed it. And going back, we've said already, your parents had split up. And I had this sense of, your sister was eight years older so you're almost feeling a bit like you're not an only child

but you were very much on your own a lot of the time in your own thoughts, weren't you? Yeah and I think she would I mean she was an only child for the first eight years of her life. You know we both have times in our life when that's the experience

if your sibling is much older or much younger than you there's sort of three childhoods going on. There's theirs yours and the two of you at the same time. Yeah. And there was relatively little time when it was like the three of us or the four of us before my dad left together.

So yeah, it was, I did, I've always had a very interior experience of the world. And whether that comes from like playing alone or isolating or sort of hiding in my room as a teenager. I still have that now, so I've lived alone for 10 years pretty much. And I was thinking the other day, I just never ever felt lonely in that time. Because I'm always talking to someone in my head, whether it's me or an audience or doing like an interview. And that can be quite tiring. And that's definitely a sort of head you might want to escape and like alcohol is quite a useful way to switch it off. Yeah. But it's probably also, like I was quite conscious in the book of being aware that a lot of the inadverted

commas bad stuff that happened or difficult times are the reason why I do what I do and why I like the person I am now. So all of that rehearsing and sort of hypervigilance and being in my own head means that when I'm on a podcast with Ellis, or when I'm doing stand-up and something happens, I can think very quickly in prose, because I'm constantly drafting in my head what I think about things. So that's, you know, in a party, it's a nightmare, because I'm thinking that person doesn't like me.

What if they remember that thing I said 10 years ago? What would I say to them? I'd say, look, I'm really sorry. I was just trying to make a joke and it went wrong, but I've tried working on myself and I'm not really that person anymore. Or how would you speak to that girl? What would you say to her? Would you say, do you want to drink?

Would you say, you know, I like your hair looks nice? So all of that which makes being around people difficult, when someone shout something out in an audience or Ellis says something on the show, the word that is just about is there. You've put in the 10,000 hours. A billion hours. Like all the hours. There isn't an hour.

Like, apart from when I'm asleep. So that's something I can be grateful for. And that means, you know, when we're looking at our past for reasons why things are the way they are, that can often become quite a sort of self-lacerating, depressing experience. Like I'm so messed up and it's because A, B, and C, well, actually, you know, flip that. Well, I'm quite happy. I like who I am. I like my job.

That's because I read a lot and I hunkered down in my room and I, and I rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and overthought and felt very intensely about things well its perspective it's what Amanda Knox said in your interview about I could either choose to look at the locked door or I could look outside 100% you know and it was interesting when you talked about your dad and I really

God you're really focusing on the dads I've never ever like spoken about my family I have to go into detail. No, it's fine, because I have, and I did a, I did a Q&A for a rehab centre last week. And I'd not done any live stuff about the book before. And the first question the guy asked was about my dad and my stepdad. And my immediate thought was to go into like, I don't talk about that. Got it.

Bat it off. And then he went, it's in the book. And I was like, fuck, yeah. Shit. Yeah, it's quite a lot, isn't it? So it's fine to ask a way. I just have to like. I understand that.

And I appreciate you giving me a heads up. I can see that totally. But I suppose there was just something I identified with personally. And maybe that is. It's interesting. I am quite interested in relationships with dads because I had a tricky one. And my dad left when I was about,

I guess I was about 12. He went to live in New Zealand. He just left. Oh, really? And that was the thing I connected with when I read your book. Just that sense of a dad leaving. especially to another country.

I had this sense, John, of like, God, that reflects really badly on me, doesn't it? Like, he's gone to fucking New Zealand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and I, it was only as I got older and had a lot of therapy that I thought, oh God, this is, of course this has left some sort of a scar. I've forgiven him for doing that,

because, you know, probably was, I see that he was a human being now. He wasn't perfect, you know, for whatever reason he wanted to go there. But I wonder, what impact do you think that has? or knew just the departing dad I suppose well my dad left Canada when I was would have been six yeah it's difficult because I can answer that question as an adult and I can answer that question as a child yes and I think what's very important to me about

the therapy I have is that though both those voices are in play and you can be compassion to both of them. Yeah. So like the child would say, you know, I miss my dad and dad's stuff always makes me cry and why did he, why could he not move down the road? Why could he not move to the next town? Why could he not move to the next county? Why could he not move to Scotland?

France. Okay, there's a bit of a push. Portugal? I'll know, like literally one of the furthest places it's possible to be. be. I'm going to give me New Zealand. My dad hated me more John. But then the adult voice goes probably for the best really. He was quite difficult guy. It would have been enormously stressful to have him in your life once a week or twice a week. Your mum would have had a complete collapse if she was having to deal with the input he made into your young brain at that age.

So, yeah, you can both miss someone and realise it was for the best at the same time. But I think I've always been looking for dads. Freddie Mercury. Freddie Mercury. Ed and Senna. Roll dull. In case anyone doesn't know, John is obsessed with Queen. It's been a big part of his life.

And in fact, when I went on your podcast, I really liked it because there was a song that really helped me through grief. And I knew you would be one of the few people that wouldn't judge me. You know, people, even with more songs where you lost your fucking sister and parents. And oh my God, that song is awful. How can you like that? And I knew, I felt very emotionally safe telling you this, because I knew, because it was Queen. Fat bottom girls. How did you know?

It was friends will be friends. Oh, yeah. And I said, I apologise. And I said, John, I know it's slightly cheesy and it's not like Bohemian Rhapsody. And you were like, no. And you started telling me all these facts about it and why it was an important song. Queen fan club members in the video.

Really jealous of them when I was a kid. Oh, Sean. They got to be near Freddie Mercury. But back to your mum and dad, your mum does seem like a very constant, stable, loving presence in your life. Yeah, she's been very supportive. Well, sort of never questioned what I did. Yeah.

So, you know, from even when she was painting my nails purple before I went into sixth form. Yeah. Like, never said, you might get a bit of stick for this. She was like, yeah, sure. And when I said I was going to do stand-up, there was never like, well, do you need a plan B or what if this doesn't work out? You know, I'd just come back from uni. I'd a degree in English at Oxford. and I was like working at a book shop and said I'm like I'm going to quit because now defunct borders.

You know I'm going to quit because I want to, one of my shifts clashes with an open mic night that I'm not getting paid any money for. She didn't go, I think that's a bad idea. Right. You know, my dad had he been around, he were like, now he ain't doing that. That's mad. And it is mad. And I guess if I had kids, I would think, think that was mad but you know it's sort of there's a quote that I put in a we made her like years ago a photo album for a birthday and it's one of those ones you can order online and and put I put lots of quotes in from her favorite books and one of them was there are two things a parent can give their child one is roots the other is wings yeah you're like oh that's nice yeah I like that's I feel that.

But it's difficult because, you know, there's been difficult men in her life. The difficult men in her life and the ones difficult men in my life are the same. So I guess I've always been... Yes, I can see that's complicated, isn't it, for you? I imagine. And you write very honestly, as you say, just about your...

Just how that's difficult anyway for a young kid when things change like that, because you're dealing with your dad going and leaving and I know from personal experience that's that's a really tricky thing to process and then your mum gets together with your stepdad and you're moving into his house with his dog and there's a really there's a bit that really moved me in this John where you perform a sort of goodbye ceremony to your old childhood home actually made me cry a bit I don't know why yeah it was just mad I know I found it very moving

It was incredibly dramatic and gothic this ceremony, wasn't it? It's too much for, I think it was 11 or 12. I didn't like some semi or something. Yeah, it's like a suburban, like semi-detached house on a very... It's like my last night at Pemberley. Yeah, yeah, a very nondescript road and I pulled up the carpet, wrote the lyrics to Days of Our Lives by Queen on the floorboards, wrote to the next owner saying, please look at

after my house and then wiped the walls with my tears and blood whilst holding a twig from the magnolia tree and a shard of brick from the wall. It's like, yeah, you're going to be an alcoholic, mate, because that is absolutely nuts. And whatever is going on in your head, you need to shut that up. What do you think that was about looking back on that? Well, like... Well, do you think that was a part of you saying, I don't have a good feeling about what's happening? I think maybe kids are more comfortable with the idea of magic.

Interesting. And that's why we like having them, because they remind us of when we were more comfortable with fantasy and magic and... Yeah. And the importance of things. And I wonder if, like, my life is... like my life has come a bit more back to that in sobriety. I've, you know, I just could not do it without some level of spirituality

or some level of like spiritual experience or communion with the world. So even the way I feel walking here now in the woods and in the trees, there's a childlike quality to that. The way kids notice things. Like you turn around and they're just sort of staring at a beetle. Yeah. Well, that's a better way of engaging with life than not noticing it. It's kind of a more Buddhist way of engaging with life, isn't it?

The way kids engage. Noticing things is so important. That's what I like about Ray. I'm going to give it a bit of a hard sell for a couple of minutes. What's Ray noticing exactly? Well, I'll tell you what I like about Ray is that I notice the things that I find inspiring about him are the fact that he notices a lot of detail. So he'll just be sniffing

and he just gets obsessed by one blade of grass or something. And I like that. He's in the present. He's in that moment. When he lies down, it does look like he's been run over. John? He's like the whole, he just like... Ray! It's like someone split open a bag of sand. What's John saying about you?

He's mad. They're cute but mad. Ray, we want John to like you. be likable he looks like you put him in the microwave if you had a bad back like heat up one of those little um sort of lumber things full of porridge oats or whatever they're you see will my producer i've got to be honest i don't think he's naturally a massive dog person but i think he's really grown to love ray he has to he's got no choice come on ray where's your friend john where's john there he is john won't like that he's very clever that's a bit stupid

I just like the way you went, I mean, you'd have to be completely out of your mind to hate Ray. Oh, this is progress. But you would, wouldn't you? I mean, what is there to hate? It's like a big mop. Ray? Like a mop that's lost its stick.

John says he quite likes you, Ray. Hmm. I love the way you say, I don't know. Okay. Sit here and goes, hmm. Hmm. Come on, Ray.

I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.