Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Josh Widdicombe

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

Emily takes her dog Raymond out for a walk in East London’s Victoria Park with comic and Last Leg star Josh Widdicombe. They talk about how fatherhood is a lot less stressful than he imagined, his hatred of confrontation, why he wishes he could bottle some of Rob Beckett’s enthusiasm and his new TV show with James Acaster, Hypothetical.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We could take him off the lead for a bit. Yeah, let's do it. You want to do that? Because there's a lovely open space here, Josh. Now, Josh will throw the... This is his little toy. Oh, yeah. Oh, look at his eyes.

I've got such a bad throw. That was about two metres. This week, on Walking the Dog, I went out with comic and star of the last leg, Josh Whitacom. Josh is a cat owner, but he was keen to meet my dog, Raymond. So he headed out to the beautiful Victoria Park,

which is near his home in East London. We talked about his fabulous actress grandmother, why he hates confrontation, and why he never watches himself on TV. I had a really lovely morning with Josh. He was hilarious company, incredibly unspoilt by success, but also really curious about the world around him.

Well, except for when it came to picking up dog poo, you can catch Josh on his new Dave show hypothetical with James Acaster, which is absolutely brilliant, by the way, and it starts this Wednesday, the 6th of Feb and also if you want to see him on his tour bit much later this year go to josh whittickham.com I really hope you enjoy this and remember to rate review and subscribe here's Josh shall I lead do you want to take Raymond yes please how old's Raymond then Raymond is two he's two years old what a name what do you think of him Josh oh love him I'm a big

fan of dogs with human names Oh, really? Yeah, I think that's a real... I think if we were to have a dog, I'd definitely... There's something that makes me... I don't know, laugh about just a dog with a human's name. It's much more... It's much more fun, isn't it?

Raymond's absolutely done me there. Gone the wrong way around me. You know what? Oh, is he doing a wee, Josh? Yeah, I'm good point. No. Oh, look, it's tiny. Do you see?

Tiny wee. Tiny dog, though, to be fair. Yeah, he's a really small dog. Well, I think he likes you. I should introduce the podcast, Josh. Yeah, sorry. So, um... Do I press a button or something?

This is fine, right? What, on the lead? Yeah, if he goes too far. No, you'll do really well. He's on an extendable lead. Yeah. I like the way you're doing it. What would you do?

You're sort of for holding it. I'm quite Victorian, aren't I? You look like, you know when those Victorian people... I say like you're around in that time. A bit of weak observation comedy there. But you know when they take out of the perambulator for the Sunday stroll? You're holding it in quite a formal way. Yeah, I am, aren't I?

Which I like. It's the lack of, I can't remember the last time I held a dog on a lead, if I'm honest. Look at him, go. He's really enjoying it, isn't it? He loves it. So do you go out every day? Yeah, I do. I take him out in the morning and in the evening.

He doesn't need much exercise, but he loves it. Must be nice. So, this is walking the dog. Yeah. I'm really excited. I'm really excited actually. Are you? Yeah, really looking forward to it. Well, I'm with the very wonderful Josh Whittaker, who I'm a huge fan of. Thank you.

And we're with my dog Raymond, who's a Shih Tzu. Yep. Because Josh, you're not a dog owner. I'm not a dog owner. No. Raymond's, I don't know what word I can use on a podcast, but I think we could get it across. Oh, you're having a comfort break? Comfort break. That's what you call it. Does, um...

I'm getting the poo bags out of. Are you totally dead to this as a grim thing to do as a dog owner? Oh, I see. You mean am I anaesthetised to picking up poo? Well, you've got a baby, haven't you? Yeah, and I'm pretty dead to that. Not the baby. The poo.

I felt nothing when that child was worn, nothing. Yeah. Are you okay with baby poo? Yeah, I don't even think about it now. Right, I'm going to pick it up. So, there we go. easy isn't it it's not bad is it

also tiny dog tiny poo yeah notice you didn't offer yeah that on a t-shirt is it not offer I didn't offer it no feel bad now so you have two cats two cats

and what are your cats called Eddie and Beryl great names yeah they're strong names yeah they're pretty aloof to be honest as cats tend to be yeah

I would definitely enjoy having a dog but give it a few years. Why? Just because having a baby's enough is taking over a bit, it takes over, obviously. Yeah. It's quite all-consuming, it turns out. Before, just before, like the month before Rose was due,

yeah. We'd be walking around the park where I suddenly got really into the idea of getting a dog. I don't know whether that's some kind of weird. Oh, really? Yeah. I was just always going, we need to get a dog. Maybe it was like a last minute. panic. Or maybe it was some kind of hormones thing. Well, I think there's probably a sensible idea

to wait a bit. I think you're right. Do you know what? I was, nothing prepared me for quite how much work it was. I bet. Did you feel that about fatherhood? No, because I, do you know what, I was fully prepped for it to be apocalyptic, kind of. I'd had enough, you see these people going and pretty laissez-faire and you're like, you're going to get a shock. But I was like, I was ready for it to be bad. And actually, in terms of the tiredness, it was the opposite of what I thought it would be. In the, it's the nights that I thought it would be like trying to work in the day. Yeah.

But you can get through anything in the day, really, when you're tired. Yeah. It's the nights. And actually, to be honest, I've stopped drinking so much, or stopped drinking completely for the last month. and so I'm actually less tired now that I've got a baby because I'm not hung over. Yeah, I saw you mentioned that. Was it on the last leg you were saying you'd stop drinking?

Yeah. Yeah. Why was that? That is a series of reasons. One, I couldn't for much longer deal with that awful feeling of what did I do last night, if you know what I mean. I don't know how much you'd, if you're a drinker. I don't know if I've had that since I was about 20.

Do you not? God, that's the... I don't know anyone that doesn't have that. Not like... I don't mean like waking up in a bin. Like... Well, it's just waking up and like... Working up in a hotel room with a tiger.

No, no, more like just waking up and like going... No, waking up and thinking, what did I say. It's just Saturday night for Josh. Yeah. No, it's stuff like, you know, you wouldn't remember conversations properly and you'd think, oh God, I hope I didn't say anything stupid. Right. and also so a combination of that

and then I stopped for a bit and I realised so much more productive I know that's a really boring thing to say but like no it's true your day is just you're like where have all these hours come from well actually Sarah Milliken who I interviewed on this podcast

she said exactly that to me she said partly her reason for not drinking is that she doesn't have the time she doesn't have the time to devote to feeling shit for the morning and writing off four hours one Tuesday

and I don't drink for that reason do you drink not at all that's not healthy word it that was a bit Yoda wasn't it I liked it it was like you

you were sort of Italian and you've googled for asking me that question and I really appreciate the effort Josh no worries yeah no I've sort of stopped drinking, I mean, instead of, you know, weddings and bar mitters and funerals essentially.

Yeah, the big three. Just to be polite, I think. Right, yeah. But I've stopped enjoying alcohol and I think it's for exactly that. I have that sense, but then I'm not older than you. And I think when you get to your 40s, it is that sense of, I haven't got much time, actually. And I don't know how much of it I want to spend just lying in bed feeling shit. Yeah, so I don't know if I've stopped forever in the same that you can't just, I think if you think,

I'm going to stop forever. It's too vast, isn't it? It's too scary. Is it? Well, I think you just take it, you know, take it a day at a time, really. You know. I like, most people say that about giving up drink, whereas you'll say that about clinging onto it, I think.

Oh, do you think? I don't want to give it up completely. No, no. I tell you what I don't want to do is make any big pronouncements that will come out and bite me on the ass. Yeah, yeah. Oh, look at that one, Josh. Oh, that's a nice dog, isn't it?

It's a nice dog, isn't it? I'd much prefer a small dog, though. Do you? Yeah. Why's that? Because I think that, A, cuter by definition of being small, and B, you know, when you go to someone's house, they've got a big dog and it's a bit much. Do you have that? Your new tour.

Yeah, that is the only thing. But that wasn't me getting it in. We will get on to that. It can get a bit too overly physical. I don't think Raymond's ever going to take me down. No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. And also there's that sort of the genital examination at the door.

Yeah. You know. And you have to be polite and pretend it's amazing fun when they've got their legs on your shoulders. And you're like, this is totally unacceptable. Yeah, I don't really like it when dogs, when their limbs look human. Yeah. You know, when they sort of leap up and I think, oh, you're like a really skinny, weird man. You know what I mean?

And I like that about Raymond. There's no doubt that Raymond's a dog. Do you know what I mean? You see, I think your daughter would like Raymond. Yeah, totally. Do you think so? Well, she chases the cats and they don't buy into it. They've got one of those...

So they've got a cat flap, but you know where they're like chipped, so they can go through the cat flap, but no one else can't. And they'll go through, and she can't work out what's going on at all because then she can't get through the cat flap. Hello, Raymond. Come on, Ray. So Josh, talk me through. your pet situation when you were growing up?

Because you were born in... Devon. I was born in London, actually. You're born in London. Then when did you move to Devon? Moved to Bristol, I was six months. Bristol? And then moved to Devon when I was three and a half. And why was that? The reason I was born in London was that my parents were living with my grand who lived in Ealing at that point.

Right. And then we moved to Bristol. And then I've got half brothers and half sisters from my dad's first marriage. Oh, right. lived in Cornwall so I think it was more to be near them and also my mum really into horses so wanted to live in the country so she could have horses so that was the reason and then my grand moved down yeah with us and kind of we bought a house and she had half of it and we had half of it is she the one who was an actress yes she was an actress so she was in the first ever soap on radio

Mrs Dale's diary oh yes I've heard of it yeah so it was like I don't know when that would be probably the 50s? Probably the 50s, yeah. Yeah. So she was Gwen Dale, the daughter of Mrs. Dale. I think the whole thing, the premise of the soap was that Mrs. Dale was like, each episode would start with Mrs. Dale writing her diary entry for that day, if you see what I mean. Quite a neat little premise. Yeah. And I'd maybe they should bring it back. And maybe that'll be my thing. I'll bring back Mrs. Dale's diary. Adrian Moll was a rip-off. Yeah, Sue Townsend. What are you thinking?

So she was in that and she kind of knew everyone in that sense if you'd be watching TV and she'd go, he is awful or vile man. Or she'd like people, depending. Mainly hate. You know what the acting world is like.

Well, I love those. Which way should we go, Josh? I'd go left. I haven't even told the listeners where we are, by the way. Well, you tell us where we are. We're in Victoria Park, it's my local park. And it's so beautiful. It's really nice.

You know, I'm saying one of the most underrated parks in London. And that's a boring thing to say by stand by it. No, Josh, I agree there's fountains and beautiful cafes. The other side of it, it's really lovely, kind of. And it's big as well. And it's really well tended. Yeah, they've got some sign-up saying they're one best parking somewhere or something. So they're really, um, they go for it.

Yeah. We're about to see the Chinese pagoda around the corner. Wow. Ray, how do you feel about that? Yeah? Do you like a Chinese pagoda? Come on. Yeah, so anyway, your grandmother, the reason I like the sound of her is I grew up in quite a theatrical family.

And we always used to, my sister and I would call, if you walked into the dining room when my parents' friends were around, we call it the P-Super, because of the cigarette smoke and noise. And it was always kind of, well, they've offered me a who. It's hardly a hamlet, but it pays the bills. It was lots of RSC people. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like those people. I do. Like, I know obviously they get a bit of a bad rep,

but like my grand would smoke a lot. So, yeah, her house was a bit of a pea super. And do you know what? If ever I smell like cigarettes in a bin, I remember my grand, isn't that a weird thing? Because whenever you'd use her bin, it would like stink of cigarettes. So that's a real, like, nostalgic smell for me.

I love this. That'd be one of my desert island smells. I love the thought of you, sort of having a nostalgic moment, weeping silently, over a load of old fag butts outside the smoking area. So, yeah, so you moved to Devon. Did you have pets ever? Yes, so we had a dog. Oh, did you, Josh?

We had Jack Russell called Scrapper. Scrapper? He was pretty brutal, pretty attacking. Yeah. Nice dog. Then she lost an arm. By the time as a teenager she was one eye. And then the other eye went bad as well.

I think she basically ended up being a blind dog. Right. And we had a cat as well called Wilger. What's it called? Wilger, which I think is a type of potato. Oh, Raymond stopped and I just carried on. That is awful dogmanship. Come on, maybe.

She was a nice cat. She died by having a heart attack and falling in a heart attack and falling into my dad's arms. Oh, really? Isn't that a sweet story? Or awful story, depending. By the way, that's not the Chinese pagoda I haven't made. Oh, it's lovely, though.

Here we go. Standoff. Are they Westies? Hello. Yeah. Does Raymond fight back? No. Hello.

Hello. Hey, how's it going? Oh. What are these dogs? Are they Westies? They are, yeah. They're lovely. Nice dogs.

Yeah, they're. One's more angry than the other, isn't it? No, she's just jealous all the time. Yeah. She's jealous. Yes. Oh, well, it's very nice to meet you. Say bye, Raymond.

Cheers. Nice to meet you. Bye. Bye. So I'm going back. We'll go back to Devon. Yeah. And you've got a rather sad story of both one animal going blind and the other having a heart attack.

Yeah. I mean, they both had a good innings. Oh, good. Yeah, they were both like, I'd gone to university by the time the cat died. So that cat must have been 15 at least. Yeah. So don't worry. And.

What were you like at school, Josh? Were you... A bit of a non-event, really. Like, you know the kids that are neither the cool kids nor the uncool kids? Like, totally cruising along in mid-table, Everton. I was very mid-table in every way, if that makes sense. And were you... Such a boring origin story.

I don't know. I genuinely don't know. I thought that when you asked Matt Ford that. I thought... Oh, on the podcast? Yeah. And I thought, I wonder what my answer to that question is. And I still don't...

I haven't got any of that, like... And then I said this joke. And I thought, everything's fallen into place. This is what I'm going to do at all. That's not... I was very into comedy, though. Yeah. Raymond loves bins.

He really does. Really loves bins. Like me with cigarette bins. What I was going to say, like you? Reminds him of what a bit of... his relatives, the smell of poo. So I didn't... You didn't have that sort of...

No, not at all. Well, it's sort of that moment that people talk about. Well, Matt Lucas talked about it on his podcast about making teachers laugh at school... Not making teachers, I'm not making teachers, doing impressions of his teachers at school and all the boys laughing. And he thought, oh, this is a thing I've got.

Yeah. This is a currency. It's that notion that comedy could potentially be a currency for you. Yeah, and it's just what I didn't have that, but what I did have was, and I don't think I realised at the time, but I was far more into comedy

than everyone else, I think, without realising that other people weren't into it, if you know what I mean? Yeah. So there was loads, I'd watch all of the, I mean, obviously everyone thinks that their youth is when everything was the best on TV and music and all that.

But like, you know, it felt like every Friday it would be like, The Farr Show and Father Ted and shooting stars and TFI Friday and then fantasy football. And it felt like this kind of infinite amount of brilliant comedy was out there that I was really into. And I wonder whether that kind of shaped me into wanting to do it more than my own kind of school experience or anything like that, if you know what I mean. So you weren't sort of one of those people. You know, in the sort of, you know, the kid at the family gathering who has, well, I always call it the look at me, Jean.

Oh. You know, those people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had it a bit, if I'm honest. You did. Well, I remember I found a letter years later. My mother had written. And she said, Emily is a dreadful show off.

And I thought, at first I was like, how dare you? And then I thought, yeah, I was. And would someone have said that about you? I think maybe to an extent. But I don't think, I think maybe at primary age, I went to a very small primary school. There's four people in my year. So there was only 40 people in the school. And I think I was probably quite a big fish in a small pond at that point.

And I was the lead in the school player, I was Robin Hood. So, you know, you can't boast about it at all. You can't argue the credits. You can't argue the credits at the end of the day. You don't get that unless you can do it, right? I think once I went to a big school, I kind of disappeared. So I think I was much more of a show off. You see a documentary on Spandau Ballet, right, or something.

And it'll be like Martin and Gary Kemp going, well, we were always doing shows for our parents. And I think everyone was doing that. Interesting, yeah. It's just that when you've then become a performer, you like to use that to kind of join the dots a bit? Yeah. I don't know if that's true, though.

That's an interesting point. I wonder, you know, it's like when you hear people say, well I always knew I was going to do something different. Yeah. And you think, well, everyone sort of thinks that they're different to a degree. I totally agree. I think it's, you know. It's a kind of revisionism, isn't it?

Totally, yeah, exactly. I think everyone in their life is like, you know, you're looking for those patterns, aren't you, I suppose? Raymond's just, um... Here comes to me. Oh, there's a nice lady we met before. Hello. Hello. Oh, Raymond.

Now, very cool around other dogs, isn't he? He's really good. He's got the confidence of the never knocked back. Of the never knocked back? Yeah, he's sort of like the David Beckham of the dog world. Have you had him, have you like gone to training and stuff? Yeah, I went to dog class. I went to puppy training classes.

Yeah. But I took him when he was a bit too old. And I didn't, I made a mistake. And I took him when he was, he was about nine months. And so I lied about his age when I was. Amazing. And we had to go around the class saying how old our dogs were. Like one of those Nigerian footballers that pretends they're younger than they are to get big transfer.

They say they're like 22 and they're 50 or something. Those are my favourite footballing stories. Yeah, I love that. So you lied to get him into the class? I lied to get him into the class and then I had to. And then I told the lie and I thought, oh no, this is like one of those horrible Hollywood movie stars who's trapped forever. like how is it? Oops.

What a lovely dog. Hello, what kind of dog is this? She's a staffie. She's a staffie. I love staffies. Hello. She's very friendly. She's very friendly. Look at that, Josh.

What Raymond does is run up to another dog and then just stand there and kind of go, this is me. Take me as I am. Isn't that what you do, Josh, for a living? Yeah, I suppose it is.

Yeah, it's not far. Good attitude, right? Is this path of the course in terms of speaking to other dog owners? Yeah, and you know what? When I did the podcast with Lee Mack, he said to me, well, I didn't know dog walking was going to involve quite so many conversations with people.

He was really taken aback by that. And it was interesting to me, because I suppose someone like you, I mean, we just had a guy come up and he recognised you and I can see how sometimes, you know, people, he was really polite and I'm sure the majority of attention you get is nice, but it is a scrutiny that you do have more scrutiny than most people.

Yeah, I don't think, I'm surprised at actually the sociable side of dog walking. I presumed it was a solo activity, if you know what I mean. No, people are really, that's part of it, I think. And do you have the same walkers that you'll bump into? Yeah. You get the regulars. It's like the regulars in the Queen Vic. I see myself as the Ethel.

That was an actress, my grand new, Gretchen Franklin. There you go. There was an amazing episode of EastEnders, wasn't there? Where it was like just Dot and Ethel. That was like this kind of iconic episode. I think I read about it. It only existed because they'd run out of budget, so they needed to just shoot an episode with just the two of them.

Like they couldn't do a full episode, so they were like, we're going to have to just write one. these two characters. And they sold it as a sort of Samuel Beckett play. Yeah, exactly. So Josh, so after, you went to university. Yeah. And... Manchester. You did... Linguistics. Yeah. What does that involve then? Not much. It's a study of language and like as a concept. I mean, I won't lie. I kind of drifted into it, mainly because I wanted to move to Manchester because I liked a lot of the music from Manchester. I bought into the kind of myth that Manchester's created around itself, if you know

what I mean? Yeah. And I loved Manchester. It was brilliant. And I kind of just drifted into the degree because I think I lived in a time when you could drift into a degree and it wouldn't cost you 40 grand or whatever. Yeah. And I was all right English language at A level, so I just ended up doing it. Do you know what? You just drift, really, don't you? At that age? And I think it's quite a good age to drift. Yeah. You don't need to have made up any decisions by then. Did your mum work for a Dalling Kindersley?

Yeah. So she was a kind of freelance editor of... Oh, she wasn't freelance for when I was younger, but she became freelance. What's he doing? He's smelling wee and poo. Oh, those are his two favourite flavours. Is that duck poo? Oh, yeah, I'm not sure.

Look at this one. Hello. Hello. Hello. No, it's all right. That's like the you of the dog world, Josh. It is, isn't it? What's the name of this dog? It's a cavapoo. Cabapoo? Yeah.

Is it a puppy? She's 21 months. 21 months, okay. What's her name? Molly. Molly. This is Raymond. Hello, Raymond. I think you look like Molly, Josh. Yeah, it's not far off.

But that's no bad thing, because I think I look like Ray. You do. We got the same hair. Did you think about that before you got right? Absolutely. Did you? Yeah, it's very important. So, yeah, the reason I brought up your parents was that your mum worked it for Daulding Kindersley and your dad.

Yeah, Damon Charles and like all that kind of. So she'd like edit those books like, referencey books like gardening and horses and stuff like that. And your dad was? Various things, really. He was a builder for quite a while when I was a kid. Then he was basically house husband for a bit, you know, jack of all trades, really. The reason I mentioned your parents' professions then is because I just wondered how going to university, I think it's changed now in that more people, that feels like the norm.

Whereas I was the generation before you, and going to university wasn't what everyone did. And I wondered, was there a sense of that was what you'd do, that was kind of expected of you? I don't think there was no academic pressure from my parents. They weren't like, you do this, then you do this at all. Thank God. Yeah. But I wanted to go just because I thought, like, obviously my older brothers and sisters are gone, and I just thought it looked really, really fun.

And a brilliant thing to do with three years of your life. Yeah. Which it was, really. It was great. I think a lot of comedians get into comedy because it's the closest you think you can get to being a student again. Yes, I can see that. Do you know what I mean? You're like, and it's not because actually, if I had a 9 to 5 job,

I'd work a lot less. But there's something in your mind that thinks, if I'm a stand-up comedian, you know, I can sit around and watch Homes Under the Hammer or whatever. I haven't watched a Homes Under the Hammering. Not a full one, anyway. I've watched 20 minutes now and again. So when you went to university and you did your degree

and then you didn't do comedy while you, you were at university, was it afterwards? Because you started... Yeah, I started when I was 25, I think, or 24, 2010. No, 2008. So 24, or just before I was 25 I started. And so I left uni, got a job at Waterstones for a year. Classic post-uny job.

You're classic. Classic, loved it, actually. Did you? Or looking back, I did. I don't know whether I did at the time, but I certainly... It's a fun way... That is a total still being...

student job if you know what I mean like it's a halfway house isn't it yeah if we cross there you get the big part of the park come on Raymond but you did some other jobs which I'm obsessed by one of your jobs I know which one it's going to be well you say what it is job is that right you want to elaborate on what the job was so I've worked for a year at John Brown publishing as a kind of editorial assistant which is the equivalent of what we've been TV, we called a runner, I suppose. Yeah. But on, uh, Dora the Explorer, primarily, but also, I did a bit on Angelina Ballerina as well.

But I tend to, I tend to do, Dora's the headline, really. And, um, so I'd write all the stories. Oh, look, Josh. How does this work with crossing road? It's all right. Thank you. You just have to go a bit officious. Do you?

Come on, Raymond. Police, please stop at the Zebral Crossing. Here we go. There you go. We've crossed into the other area of Josh's Park now. The bigger area. Yeah. And so,

so you've basically watched an episode of Dora the Explorer. Have you ever watched it? Yes, because my godchildren, I think, used to watch it. Yeah, it's quite a big deal. Yeah. I don't know if it's still a thing. But you'd watch an episode, and then you'd kind of turn that into the story for the magazine,

and then you'd do stuff like you'd write puzzles and stuff like that. Good little gig, to be honest. It was first year I moved to London. What a nice job to get. What can I say? Often I've heard you tell this story on Graham Norton and rather serially in front of people like this, Mark Ruffalo. Who was it? Was it Mark Ruffalo?

Yeah, I loved Mark Ruffalo. He was great, wasn't he? Yeah, I really liked him. But what I've heard you tell this story, but can I say I'm coming at it? Careful of this dog, he looks a bit aggressive. Pull the extender, Josh. How do I pull the extender? Just push on it.

So if you want to control it, you can stop it. Do you see? Oh, I see. Yeah. Quite useful. Oh, I see. I'm questioning there whether you're afraid of the dog or the owner, because he looked pretty. He looked a bit Brian Harvey. He looked a bit Millwall, didn't he?

He did look a bit. No one liked to look. No one likes us, we don't care. Oh, yeah. He looked like he did care. So the reason I'm particularly interested is my first job, when I left university, was the Fun Day Times. Was it? Wow. I worked for the Fun Day Times.

Oh, wow. That's amazing. So I did similar things. And what was great was that sometimes, this was obviously the days before people were texting so often, she'd have phone calls catching up with old friends. Yeah. And somehow it turned out that because Funday Times can be misheard and sounds like Sunday Times, there was people were thinking at one point that I was 22 years old and deputy editor of Sunday Times. What an awkward conversation to have. I never corrected them, Josh. Of course not.

So could I ask what is in the Fund Day? I remember it. The Fund Day Times was cartoons and puzzles. Yeah. Very much your arena. Of course, yeah. Your area. And we had Banana Man. Oh, I loved Banana Man.

Eric. And we also worked with Darlene Kindersley a lot. Oh, did you? Actually, yeah. So we do a spread of, you know, something like the inside of a car or how of the human body. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And asked him you broke in a lot. I thought you were going to say, we did feature on interiors.

How to make the most of lamps. I loved it. It's weird, because those jobs that you have when you leave university, you don't realize how much kind of cultural capital they'll be in your conversations coming up. Do you know what I mean? Because there's, the amount of times it's like what did you do before you did this.

But when you're doing it, you don't realize that that's going to be like such a big part of your life. Did I have any other jobs? Oh yeah, I did. You worked for The Guardian, didn't you? I worked for The Guardian, didn't I? Yeah. I wasn't very good at that. Were you not? No, it was rubbish.

I was like a sub-editor. So your only job is to check spellings and make sure things are right. And I was in charge of the kind of the front of the sport and football websites. And there was a day, and there was two big FA Cup upsets. I think Chelsea and Liverpool both lost to lower division teams. And I got both scores the wrong way around. And I thought this isn't for me, really. So when did you do your first gig, Josh?

2008. Oh, yeah, you were saying honestly. And why did you decide, what happened to make you decide you were going to do stand-up? I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to write comedy. And like, I remember because my brother and me would write stuff together. Henry's now like, he's a big wheel and comedy runs Macfess in Mahan the Festival, which is like the, I'd say the best comedy festival there is.

And we wanted to get into comedy. And I think it's just, there's just a feeling that to get into comedy, you stand-up is a shortcut it felt like if you know what I mean yeah to write because it's a way of people seeing you rather than just sending off emails that it's just gonna we all know how many emails get ignored so I never thought I want to be a stand-up I kind of I suppose the words drifted again isn't it but what makes you do that drift into something that scary well that's what I was gonna say because well I tell you what I did yeah I thought the only way to make myself do this was be to do

one of those courses where you kind of learn how to be a stand-up a bit. You don't really learn how to be. It was really good because it wasn't, this is what you do, this is how you hold the mic. It was just like getting your confidence up. So it was all just improv games and stuff like that. And like go and write your own material and there's no like this is what you do,

this isn't what you do. And it was just a way of making myself do it really. I think now there's so many like gigs where there's like 20 people on. Everyone's doing five minutes and it's totally. oversubscribed and I started just before that kind of boom in stand-up the kind of McIntyre's Road show led boom what was your first gig then do you remember yeah it was laughing horse Earl's court and it was above a pub and it was people I don't know maybe 20 I'd like to say did you feel sick when they said and

Josh Whitaker I can't it's just that I don't think there'd ever be something I'd do again that would be that terrifying really it's It went well, I've said this before, but I think if it had gone badly, I just think I'd given up. And I actually think, like, there's loads of people that would have been top comedians that probably just got unlucky with their first gig and just thought, well, this isn't for me. Because I had a good gig, it makes you go, genuinely, I remember the next day, I remember

I had a dentist appointment. And I remember lying there at the dentist appointment thinking, this is it, I'm going to be a standard comedian. I thought, well, I've had a good gig, I must be good at this. And then you don't realise that it's absolutely such a long way to get there. Really? Yeah. I was talking to Acaster about when we're on the open mic scene.

This is James. James Acaster, when we're on the open mic scene together. And like, it's very easy to be nostalgic about it. But it was pretty brutal what you do to your life to get there. You're like, you know, five or six nights a week. I tell you what happened, really, is that, so I was in quite a long-term relationship. when I started comedy. And then that kind of fell apart

because I was doing too much stand-up. And had you met her at university? Yeah, I'd met at university. And then once that fell apart, you're like, well, I mean, in now, aren't I, for a penny, in for a pound? But do you know what you mean? Like, well, I've paid the price. I've got to get the prize or whatever.

So I might as well try and make this work. Because the narrative, of that particular story if it was a movie. It would have been a terrible movie if you'd go on and then we broke up and then I just... Yeah, nothing ever happened really.

I got nothing out of it. It was the biggest mistake ever made. But actually, we weren't suited at all so it was win-win. I'm interested in what you say about comedy because when I talk to Frank Skinner I always say to him there's something that separates you

and most comics from other people, I suppose. which is that you're willing to take that risk, essentially, which is most people, I mean, they have actual anxiety nightmares about the idea. That is, that's something that features a lot, being on stage and something having a mic put in front of you and having to... Yeah, totally.

And do you know what? So at uni, we do like seminars and stuff, and it'd be like talking in front of ten people, and I remember I'd go bright red in the face and my voice you know that thing where people's voice goes like your voice like wavers because you're too nervous

and you're like well I had the opposite of the ability to perform so I don't know why I then managed to do it if you know what I mean there are two types of comics I always think there's the sort of you know like Rod Gilbert talks a lot doesn't hear about his anxiety and shyness and I always feel performing

for people like that is interesting because it's a release and it's almost like you've got an inner extrovert that wants to come out and that's the channel for it and then you get the I guess the more Frank Skinner's sort of Rob Beckett types who are a bit more like alright you know do you know what I mean yeah I would say yeah but I would say Rod I would put with maybe more Gary Shandling well do you know what when I started out so I knew Rod a bit because Rod knew my brother and he also knew Ellis James, who was quite close to, still am, to be honest. And Rod, like, is someone that, I'm sure he'd, you know, it's not a secret that he would, you know, he takes it seriously.

Yeah. And he, like, suffers for it, if you know what I mean. And that's, you know, that's the reason, one of the reasons he's so good. He's like, that show, his award-winning Mintz Pie show, which I saw in Edinburgh in 2008. You say that's your best ever... Best ever stand-up show I've ever seen. Straight stand-up. Yeah.

You see that and you go, blimey, is that what it takes to be that good? But then you meet Beckett and you're like, bloody hell he ain't got a care in the world, does he? And he's amazing. So it's different people, isn't it? Well, Rob's... Beckett, when he did this podcast, said...

Yeah. He said, I walk into a room and I just think, everyone loves me. It's great. I walk in and I think, yeah, why wouldn't they like me? I've got some views. But I love Rob. No, but I love that. I found that really infectious and I thought, you know what, be more Rob Beckett sometime?

Rob Beckett. I was talking to Ramesh about, God, we were like going, oh God, I don't know about this tour that we'd do it. Like, oh God, I hope it's good, whatever. And we're just like, God, I wish I was Rob Beckett. I know. Do you know what I mean? He's just got, it's a positivity. There's just something about his attitude to life, which I think is good. I mean, I hope he never hears me say that. We'll edit it. I want to talk as well about after you started getting into comedy, and then you did, I mean, the last leg was sort of your kind of hit me baby one more time, breakthrough moment, wasn't it?

But you done, panel shows. I think it was. But I think, yeah, it was a fluke, obviously, the last leg, in the sense of it wasn't meant to be anything. It was meant to be a show that we did for 10 days during the Paralympics. I think that's why it was a success because there's no pressure on it. You know, you see these shows where it's like, this is going to be the big thing.

And people wanted it to fail. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But no one wanted it to fail because no one knew it existed. So it gave us a chance to kind of find our feet. No pun intended. With it. And like, it became what it was.

because you've never commissioned it. It's an awful idea for a TV show. It's a terrible idea. Like three guys, two comedians and a guy that's never been on TV before, talk about the news for a bit and then bring on a guest and then they kind of finish on a big thing.

It's not a format in any way, but that's kind of why it works because it's just kind of found out what it is by doing, if you know what I mean. I've noticed one of the most, when you put your name into Google, One of the things that comes up most frequently is... Disabled.

It says, yeah, it says Josh Whittaker disability. Disability. People trying to find out what your disability is. Yeah. But you don't have one. No. I was kind of brought in as the man in the street, I suppose. So I get some treats out.

Look how excited he is. Yeah. So how many treats do we go with? A few. Well, give him one because he's got such a tight... Look, he's sitting already. Sit. And what do I do?

Raymond sit. Oh. Look what he's done, Josh. Oh, he's put it on the floor? While he's eating the treat. There he is. So he has to bite it into about a million pieces. Last leg we were talking about.

So, yeah, the success of it. And, yeah, the disability thing. So people often say, what's his disability? Yeah, and I think because I was just brought in as the bloke in the street, that's what my role was. It'd be interesting if people started watching the show now, whether they'd say it's a show about disability, if you know what I mean. Or whether, I often forget that, I know that's such a lame thing to say,

but I forget that Adam and Alex are disabled. Particularly with Alex, like, you go, oh, no, of course we can't do that or whatever, because you just forget about it, you know what I mean, so you spend so much time with them. But I think that's the strength of the show for me is that, and again, it's not sort of virtue signalling, but it's just that sense that it's a great TV show and it's kind of irrelevant. I think if we were still, you know, that was the main drive, it would be over by now.

Yeah, of course, yeah. Yeah, I know I'd be bored of it. But it is a brilliant show, and it's also, because it's live... I think that's the... I think the live element is so different. There's nothing else on really like that. I mean, loose women,

but you know, like, you know what I mean? In terms of, like, live comedy show, Very few things that are... Do you think as a stand-up that prepares you for... I think the best bits of the last leg when it goes wrong, that's the advantage of it being live. Yeah. Like when we had Chris O'Dowd,

I know people go on about the one where he was on and he was... Was he... He'd had what my mother used to say. He'd had a few cocktails. He'd had a few cocktails. But, you know, if that hadn't been a live show... Where should we go, Josh? I don't want to go near the skateboard park.

No, no, of course not. Raymond wasn't like to... Raymond's not like skateboarding. I don't think you should be putting your own tastes on to Raymond. Blaming Raymond for your own. You know when people do that with children? We don't like that shop because they were rude to us, weren't they, darling? So Raymond doesn't like skateboarding.

You know what? We could take him off the lead for a bit. Yeah, let's do it. Do you want to do that? Yeah. Because there's a lovely open space here, Josh. Nice, isn't it? It feels summary today. Now Josh will throw the... This is his little toy.

Oh, yeah. Oh, look at his eyes. I've got such a bad throw. That was about two metres. Sorry, yeah. Yeah, no, we're talking about the last leg. And just how it's been a huge success for you. And you've done sort of, you know, mock the week and eight out of ten cats.

And that's how, I suppose, you built up your TV hours. That's what's amazing about, Alex, is that I do think, like, with those shows on TV, it's hours doing it that makes you confident and good on them, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Do you prepare a lot? Are you quite... We work Wednesday to Friday on the last leg. But do you personally prepare, Josh?

Like, are you one of those people... You know, someone like Frank Skinner, I would say he approaches... And actually, Jimmy Carls like this as well. I would say they approach it in quite a disciplined, methodical way. Yeah, I'd say that is correct. Do you remember when you'd go into an exam? And it would be like there's going to be three questions coming up about five subjects, right? And people would be like, I've revised the three I think it's going to be.

And I think that's madness. You've got to be prepared that it can't go wrong. Obviously it can go wrong. But you don't want to be in a position where you think, I wish I'd prepped for this. It's definitely that was stand-up. Yeah. Like I'm writing the stand-up at the moment. You go, it's just hard work.

I'm really obsessed with blur. I remember like they did a South Bank show when I was a teenager and I must have watched that out ten times and I remember Alex James saying like I always used to think you had to be a genius but you just got to work really hard and I think that's definitely the case with comedy I think you've got to be funny obviously but yeah

I think I don't I think it's 85% of it is hard work and it's not just like hard work but it's like doing that work well in the sense that you go you know when you when you're on the open mic circuit you'd see people and they'd be like oh you got just gig every night and then you'd see them six months apart and they'd have gigged every night but they'd still be doing the same stuff that's not quite working right and you're like well you're not learning from the gigs you've got a kind of there's no point gigging if

you're not going to try and make it better the next time if you know what I mean so it's about just being really self-critical and working really hard I think The self-criticism is interesting. Do you think you need a slight rhinoceros hide to be a comic? I haven't got that, so no. Have you not? But I do stuff like I haven't read a review in five or six years. I don't read Twitter.

I would never Google myself. I don't read Chortle. So I just totally shut myself off from that area of it. And would you describe yourself as a sensitive person? Yes, very sensitive to those kind of things, I think. I don't enjoy criticism. And I remember talking to a comic and he was like, if you read the good ones, you should read the bad ones.

And I thought, why? Why make your life worse? Yeah. Why do you want to torture yourself like that? Also, the thing with the reviews or comments on Twitter, maybe this is wrong, but I don't know anyone of my friends that goes, tell you what made that bit better. When I read that review and they pointed out exactly what I should have done with it,

like, I think like either my peers or me would be the people that might be able to fix the bit and I know when a bit's not working. Well it's that weird thing. I've written a book recently and Mike, someone said to me recently, so, have you had any feedback?

Because you know, you're sending the content. And I said, well, it's written now. I don't want feedback. Yeah. I want sales. Do you know what I mean? It's like, what is the point in someone saying to me, I loved it, but I thought, great.

My friend went for an interview for a job recently. and he didn't get it and his agent said, I've emailed them for any feedback and I'm like, I don't want that. I don't want to know how I failed in the interview. Like, why do I want to do that? Do you lose your temper, Josh ever?

I think I probably do. Over what? Just like the great injustices in the world. No, what do I lose my temper over? I tell you what I lose my temper over, I think. When you feel like when I've got too much on, I just, and it gets all on top of me, and I struggle with that. And how do you, how does that manifest itself when you struggle with it?

Do you get grumpy? Yeah, and I just like, I get angry, I lash out, not lash out physically, but like you're just in a bad mood. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Never with like, I, you know, I just, I find it mad when people, people are like rude to like, I'm sure there's going to be, you know, someone listening to this going, well, he was actually very rude to me on a bus once or something. But like, people are rude at work or whatever, and you're like,

particularly in TV, you're like, we are in such a lucky position. Because when you're the performer on a show, let's be honest, you can claim you're under a lot more pressure than other people. You're not. And you're not working the same hours as the production team. The production team is a thankless task. So you should kind of treat that with respect. shouldn't you, I think.

Did you ever have a period where you checked in with yourself, or do you check in with yourself and say, oh, hang on, Josh, that's a bit, you know, you're sounding a bit like a bloke on TV there. Do you know what I mean? What do you mean? Well, you know, that thing, I think I've done it with myself, where not that I do your job,

but just things where I check myself. Oh, where you feel like... If I take something for granted or I say, I don't know, handing someone a water bottle because you're going on air and not saying thank you all. Interesting, yeah. There's people that you get close enough to that you'll argue, do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like when, I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying. So the last, the guy that produced the last leg for quite a lot at the start for about four years, Ben Wicks, who's... I know him. Yeah, brilliant, Ben. Love loved him, but our relationship reached a point where we could argue, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And that's very different from snapping at someone because they've brought you sweet potato man. instead of creamy mash.

But we could argue because in the same way that you can argue with a partner much easier than you can argue with a stranger. Yeah. You know, it's like bands, isn't it? Would argue amongst each other

because they're close to each other. Who was I talking to? Presumably you've seen the Bross documentary. Yeah. And they were saying, I was saying about how I like... Oh, here we go. Oh, is that little Chihuahua, Josh?

Yeah. Hello. Raymond's straight over to do his standing stock still. Yeah. It's interesting the way he does. He loves it. It's almost like he just kind of, and then he's happy to be sniffed. Yeah. He's like a supermodel really. He's just saying, look, this is my thing, is to be watched and looked at.

But he runs to them to stop. It's a bit, check me out. Yeah, it really is. It's like, so this is happening. Ray's broken another heart. Yeah. I don't mean to boast, Josh, but he's some... He's absolutely. But he knows he's it, do you know what I mean? He think he'll at and he is. Yeah. Josh, go on, you were saying about the creative tent, the Bross documentary. Oh, no, just, you know the bit where they're arguing?

Which bit is that? Well, the bit where they're arguing in the recording, in the practice room. Yes, about the, yeah. And my friend who was a musician was like, that's when he didn't like them, because he was like, all the poor other session musicians that having to put up with this.

shit when it's their day-to-day job. And I didn't really think of it like that. Do you know what I mean? It's interesting, yeah. Also, you know when they have the argument before they gone this morning? That was in the dressing room, which I used to use every week

for the last leg. It was quite exciting. And there's a bit where it cuts to outside, and they're in Star 10, that's what the dressing room was called. You've had people like John Cleese, Ricky Chavez, on your show, and what excites you is seeing your dressing room on the first document. But they cut to outside the door and the star is peeling off the door. And it's obviously they've thought that's a good little shock.

I think they peeled it off. No, I peeled that off. I peeled that off when it was locked outside my dressing room waiting to get in. So I want to talk about some more of your TV work because I really love Josh. Oh, thank you. Your sitcom, which is on Netflix. If anyone hasn't seen it. Yeah, I didn't know this until recently.

I think the first two series are on. Netflix. Who cares? It's so brilliant. And I think what I like about it is that I think it's like really densely written. Yeah. It's all meat. There's no connecting tissue.

You know, sometimes things feel flabby. Whereas I said this to Leah Mac about not going out. Yeah. Every joke. There's so much in it. I think that's a stand-up thing where you're afraid of not having jokes. It's got to be tight, isn't it? What's the point in going 30 seconds without a joke when you could have a joke?

Well, Frank Skinner always says, why do people talk on the radio and not say funny things? He said, how could you just talk and be happy with that? He said, imagine doing a whole link and not having said one funny thing and sitting back and thinking, oh, that was all right. I think, Frank, if I was to write a list of things that have stuck with me as kind of lessons and stuff like that,

I think Frank Skinner said more perceptive things than anyone I've ever encountered. So Josh, I loved. And did you feel that was very much putting yourself, I suppose, centre stage in that Seinfeld way. I found that the most stressful thing I've done. Did you? Why? For that reason? A, it was by a distance the most work you can do. It's amazing that you can spend six months, you know, crafting something.

It takes so long, and it's six weeks recording it, and then it's edited, and you're like, then you can just turn up and do a last leg. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It was so, so tough. It's so much tougher to get, because when you do stand-up,

it's just a string of jokes shove together, really. You find links, but it doesn't have to hold together. There's no plot that needs to hold together. Writing something like that, it's just so much tougher. So much more kind of... I've got so much respect for people that can do that. But are you proud of it, Josh, now? Yeah.

You don't understand it. I don't. Tell me why. I don't know what I'm proud. I don't... I think when you do anything, I know this sounds like I'm fudging the question, you can just see the things you don't like about it. Oh good, that's reassuring, because I always feel that. Yeah.

Like, do you think that's natural to hate you? things that you're not hate, it's exactly... Yeah, that you've done. Yeah. Oh, is it? I was thinking this the other day, I was saying I don't like, I don't think I like any of my previous stand-up tours. Do you ever think people are lying when they say they like things?

Yeah. Oh, all the time. But that's because I often am. No, I mean, it takes... I've said I like things that I've not even seen. Have you? Yeah. Are you an honest person?

Are you an honest person? What? In the sense of would I take a friend aside and say I think that thing you did wasn't very good? Yeah. No. I don't see what the... Why would you do that? Because I'd hate them to do it to me.

Do you hate confrontation? Oh, more than anything in the world. What would you do if a friend upset you? Uh, would you... Probably not deal with it. Probably... It depends how they upset me. Would you tell Rose your partner and say, I'm really upset with the

than... Oh yeah, I'd talk about it for hours and hours and hours and hours, but I would be the opposite of proactive about it. What's that? Like, I just wouldn't deal with the situation. If someone says to you, Josh, I'm really upset with you, something you did and I need to talk to you, do you, does your heart sink and do you feel frightened? I can't remember the last time I had a confrontation, do you know what I mean? Like with a mate? It's horrible, isn't it? I don't know if I ever have with a mate, mate. I don't know if it's a, I mean, it's so bloody, cliched isn't it but I don't know if it's a man thing that most of my friends we're not talking about the things that would lead to confrontation if you know

what I mean yeah our friendships aren't built on the things that would make you confrontational because you're talking about things do you know what I mean rather than each other rather than this is a nice dog what's it what it breed is this I'm so bad at dog breeds like what is this dog actually. Go on do your thing moment. Walk up, stop. Oh, it's a schnauzer. A lovely dogs. Hello. So nice, aren't they? Beautiful. See, I'd say today it's really pushed me towards the thought of getting a dog. Has it? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can at the moment, but I mean, it's very idyllic. I'm sure if it had been raining today, it would have pushed me away from that idea.

I want to ask you about your new series, which I've, which is out very soon. Yeah. that on the 8th, I think. Oh, is it the 6? Feb the 6th. It's the Wednesday. And it's called Hypothetical. Yes. And I've really enjoyed it, Josh. Cheers. I'm glad. I'm so glad.

I know you don't believe that now, given what we've just said. You think I'm mine. I'll take it. No, I've really loved it. So it's you, if you want to describe what it is, it's you and James Acaster as sort of hosts. Your co-hosts. You're co-hosts.

No, we're co-hosting. You're co-host. But I do the kind of, the furniture, I suppose. Yeah. And James is, where his tight. is the arbiter of hypotheticals. He's basically, so it's basically hypothetical questions that we've set to comedians.

And then James kind of makes the rules and we play out their answer with them and then give them a score on how we think they did. It came about because basically I'm really, really obsessed with that kind of conversation. I love it. So the kind of conversation, how much to do this is a,

I could do that kind of conversation all day. And I still do. And now it's a bit weird because it feels like I'm trying do my show. So it will be like hypothetical questions. So the first round is like, how would you deal with this hypothetical situation? Or they have something like, you know,

if you were going to start a cult, what would your cult be about? Yes. Which is a nice idea, because it's kind of, you know. And it's freeing, I think, for the comedians. There's no prep. You don't know what you're going to be asked. And everyone's kind of chipping in.

It's no prep. We wanted to create something which people want to do. to come on. Well, that's it. I look at that and I think that feels like a conversation. There's no desks, there's no buzzers. Yeah. There's no sense of besting other people. No. Can imagine being a woman in that and not feeling sort of squeezed out, quite honestly? Totally. And, you know, the Guardian's like annual article about the panel shows dead that they'll do. I don't... They do. They do it. And they'll swap every six months that we would stand up dead. They're basically trying to really hit into my revenue streams.

But I think the panel shows just, it's just morphing into something a bit more. And I think Taskmaster's kind of done this, really. Were you the champion of all champions, by the way? I am the champion of champions, yeah. I'm beat Beckett by a point. I love the way you said that in a sort of, yeah, I am the champion of all champions. Beat Rob by a point, which was glorious. Yeah.

But it's becoming less hopefully about people preparing jokes and doing it and more about it being a conversation and being a cooperative show and something that people want to come on. I think the best panel show is, would I lie to you? And I think the reason for that is because it's a game that you get lost in. And it gives you a reason to be there. And you go, oh, if you put these six people in a room and they played that game, they'd enjoy it.

Yeah. But I don't think you'd ever put six people in a room and... There's a picture of the transport minister here. This is fun. Can we play that thing? Do you know what I mean? Exchange singers about... You'd never do like they think it's all over in your own time, would you?

But hypothetical, it feels like a game that you could play if we were all sat in a dressing room and someone said, what would your... You know, if you had to... So there's one with Rochene where it's like if you had to... You've got 48 hours to have a selfie with Nicholas Cage, otherwise you die. Now everyone's going to have a view on how you do that. That's a fun thing how'd you do that?

And that's what we wanted. Do you know what I mean? What I like also is it feels like the people that you want to book are my generation and my friends. And it feels we really liked that feeling. I imagine you were looking up to... I don't know who you were looking up to, but, you know, the people you were, you know, like Jack D or maybe people like Frank. Or Harry Hill or whatever, yeah.

And then you think, oh, I'm one of them. Yeah. Like, that must have hit you at some point. I mean, got a while back. Yeah, you kind of do. It's amazing that. But, you know, that kind of feeling that you're never there, are you? I think that was one of the great realisations I had from seeing people that I thought were at the top.

you never feel safe. Do you think not? I don't think so. You never feel like I can do what I want now because I'm Jerry Seinfeld or whatever. Do you think Jerry Seinfeld feels that? I don't know. I've used them as an example

because I didn't want to name a British comic that might listen to this. Everyone even at the top, I'm sure there's people that would look at me and go, I've got it made. You know, what a great situation. you're in. But I'm thinking, bloody hell, what if the last

leg gets cancelled, hypothetical doesn't get recommissioned? How are we going to pay my mortgage? And there's no answer to that, really. But do you know what I mean? That's what keeps you creating things. Totally. Presumably the minute you think, I'm all right, that's, I suppose,

let's say you win the lottery. Yeah. I think that sense of not having any purpose, not having anything to get you up in the morning, that's a tough situation to be. being on me. Yeah, totally. It's something Christmas goes on too long, isn't it?

You know, when people will go, like, there's this guy, and he's like 23, and he sold an app for 10 million pounds, and you go, oh, well, I'd retire. And then you go, but then I, the reason Alan Sugar hasn't retired is because he's got the mentality that got

him in that position, and he's not going to lose that, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. That is, where you get the same with comics in that if you've worked hard enough to get in the position you're in you're not going to retire because you enjoy what you do you the reason you've got to where you got is because you love doing it really yeah so that's why you've committed to it so much well it's interesting that you're saying that because you're you're going on tour later this year yeah october yeah so in october and your tour is called bit much bit much which was interesting

because when I interviewed Matt Ford for this podcast and I said, what do you most fear people saying about you when you close the door and leave? And I'm going to ask you that question, so think about your answer. And when I said it to Matt, he said, well, what do you mean? What do you mean? I said, well, imagine they're saying, I like Matt,

but he's a bit, and he said, much. We'll get back to your tour in a minute. But what do you worry most? Like I worry most, for example, if I leave and I close the door, I imagine and fear that people are saying, oh gosh, she does never stop talking. She's so loud. What do you think people might say about you? Do you know what? I think it's dependent on the situation. Okay.

Because I think you're different people in different situations. Does that make sense? Yeah. So in a professional situation. and maybe this is going back to that thing of what we were saying earlier about being nice in that situation is I would absolutely hate to people

to think that I was difficult to work with or a diva or something like that that would cripple me but I don't think they would think that of you so what do you think they would say about you I think in a work situation they might say joction is a bit finicky

I think I go round and round worrying about things that would get annoying. No, I don't think I am a control freak at all, actually. Not at all, but if there's something that I'm worrying about, I'll keep bringing it up, and I'll just be a bit annoying about it, if that makes sense. Obsessive? Yeah, obsessive about things that don't matter.

In a social situation, too gossipy. 100%. Can you be trusted to keep secrets? Yes, I can. Totally. I'm sitting on a great one at the moment. But, no, I'm all right with keeping. secrets but if there's something that's public domain or

when I go into my agent's office they'll be like oh you must have something funny about some comic or whatever Ray spotted two crows Josh I don't think they're nice friends for you no it's not his bag is it he preferred to be smelled by a dog

yeah you're like a nice furry friendly type and they're a bit oligox I don't like them They're not pleasant. Yeah, so I think that's definitely my fear. Bit gossip. That'll be your next talk. Bit gossipy.

So are you looking forward to that, Josh? Because how many dates do you do? So that's 37 because I'm doing it in quite as quick a session. But then there'll be another leg next year or maybe two, depending on stuff. And you have to work it around your TV stuff, I presume, as well. Yeah. I am looking forward to it because I haven't done it in a while. and I was really burned out with stand-up at the end of last one. Were you?

I'd had it with stand-up. Why? Because I'd done it for 10 years. Yeah. And I just needed a break, and now I'm really enjoying it again. So I am looking forward to it, but I'm sure by the end of it I'll be bored out of my... No. I'm so easily bored.

That's why... Are you? Yeah, that's why I did quite loads of different things. I can't stand the idea of... doing the same thing every week. Oh, so what's that? He looks like he... He's a lovely golden...

Golden retriever? Is he a Labrador? Is he a Labrador? You know what he looks like? I'm going to go for what he is. I think he's a cross between a Labrador and a German Shepherd or something.

I mean, you tell me, I need to learn a dog breeds. But he's lovely. He's... He's golden coloured. He looks like he could belong to the Whedekon family. He could.

I look like a lot of dogs. Do people think you're, Later to Anne Whittaker. Yeah, and when I met her... Was she on the last leg? No, I met her filmed a little thing with her to promote Josh series two, bizarrely. And I walked in and she said, I knew this day would come. Did she throw herself into your arms then?

Oh Josh, I really enjoyed today with you. I've had a lovely time. Have you? Yeah, really nice. Have you felt about the dog walk then? I really feel it's... Oh, it's calming. It's meditative, right?

Really? What I find interesting about dog walking is I love the idea of it when your life is in quite a nice state. But the moment I'm on deadline or my life's in flux, it's another thing that I would have to fit into my day. That's how I feel about it. Is that a fair thing to say? I think that's true. But then I think it's sort of a bit of an interesting thing, isn't it? because, oddly, making time for it, I suppose it's like exercise or, you know, it's like making time for it is what makes you better able to face those things, strangely.

Oh, I know what I was going to ask you, Josh. Do you cry? Yeah. Are you a cryer? Yeah, I think I am, yeah. Not all the time. But, yeah, I'm not someone who goes, you know, those people that go, I haven't cried in eight years. You know, that kind of weird? but like weird stuff like end of films or something and not even the ones you'd expect

or like Edinburgh shows or something but not like not all the time I'm not no I'm not that isn't like something I'd I'm not emotionally on edge I don't think but I don't think I'm emotionally unavailable either no

are you someone that people would go to for advice do you think Hope not. That would be the last thing I need. Would I be someone who... Nah. What kind of advice? Okay, let's say relationship.

No, relationship advice. I don't know. No, I don't think so. Yeah, I mean, maybe like, to an extent, but I don't think I'd be the first port of call. Do you know what I mean? But I don't think it would be bananas to come to me. It would be like, fine.

It would be an acceptable chat, although I don't think you'd seek me out. But if I was there. I'd love if you had a therapy business. An acceptable chat, but you wouldn't see me out. You wouldn't see me out. But you know. What's your relationship with fame like?

Because, you know, some people say... I'm fine with it. Yeah. I don't think that... I'm not tortured by it in any way. Do you know what I mean? Like some people are. I certainly don't want it

in the sense of God, I hope they take a photo of me or anything like that. Someone famous that I know sent me a text once which I don't think they intended it to be so funny but I'm afraid it was because it said it was describing

how they'd been recognised by someone on the tube and they ended it by saying loathe fame I suppose the reason that it's funny and that other people found that funny is I think it sounded, I didn't buy that. I don't buy that. Because if you loathe something, there is a way out.

Well, quite, yeah. And I also think, for instance, you said Lee Mac earlier. Yeah. Le Mac is one of the biggest comedians in Britain. He's super famous. But he doesn't... You never think of Lee Mac. accepting his work, do you know what I mean?

No. And I do, I mean, you can, as a comedian, it's one of the things you can do where, if you don't court it, it's fine. No one's, your life is your own. That's totally a choice. And I do think comedy is certainly one of the ones where it's of no advantage, really.

I can see in being an actor, it can be helpful to be a, to act like a star. But in comedy, people want the opposite of a start. No one wants a comedian who's outwardly living this show biz lifestyle because comedy's not about having a wonderful life, is it? It's about, you know, frustration. Yeah, exactly. So I don't think in comedy it's as big a thing

if you don't want it to be. I'm getting near to the end now, I can see, is that the cafe over there? that the cafe over there? It's just there. It's just there. I've really enjoyed today, Josh. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. It's been much, much more pleasant weather than I'd anticipated when I woke up. Were you worried about the rain? Were you thinking I'm going to have to cancel this? Do you know what? No, it wasn't the rain. I was thinking you've got a really seasonal job here. You've got a job that in summer must feel like the greatest job in the world and in winter. I bet booking it's much easier in summer.

They're queuing up. You've been really good with Ray, Josh. Well, it's, you know, after the initial holding it up too high, I've realised it's quite a cash job really, isn't it? Yeah, you were holding it up a bit like a sort of... It's a bit penny farthing, wasn't it? Well, I've loved chatting to you today. Yeah, it's been really fun, really pleasant.

I think you're... I've always admired you, and I think you're a really talented comic, and also just really likeable. Well, that's where I've tricked you because it's all hard work, pretending to be those things. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.