Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Kate Lawler (Part Two)

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Meet us back in North London with Kate Lawler and her dogs Baxter and Shirley.Kate tells us about the reality of coming out as the winner of Big Brother and dealing with the white heat of fame, how she takes her dogs on European summer holidays and what it is like to prepare to lose a beloved pet. Shirley also makes a run for it towards the end of the podcast...Follow Kate on instagram @TheKateLawler You can buy a copy of Kate’s book Maybe Baby here!Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of my chat with a fabulous Kate Lawler. If you haven't listened to Part 1 yet, get on it immediately, as I think you'll really love it. And also, I'd be thrilled if you subscribe to us at Walking the Dog. Here's Kate and Baxter and Shirley and Ray-Way. Kate Lawler, I think you're rather fabulous. I have to tell you. Oh, thanks. Do you think I'm as fabulous as my dogs?

Because I think they're fabulous. I really do. How are you with compliments? I don't really Yeah I don't know Who was it someone the other day I was out on Saturday night And my friend Maria was just like

I just want to say Kate That I love you And I'm so pleased you're here And she's got this friend Who is there for her 50th birthday She was like Anna Kate did so much For my daughter

Who had cystic fibrosis She's still with us thankfully But her daughter was quite poorly When she was a kid And I used to do lots of charity stuff Anyway she was trying to pay me a compliment And I was like Anyway de Maria

She was like babe I'm trying to pay you a compliment I just hate it I get really uncomfortable. Where's that from, do you think? I don't know. The slightly, you were talking about your background. And it says, you know, I get the sense that your dad was quite, no nonsense in terms of manners.

And come on, let's get on with it. He still is. He's like patriarch. Like, what I say goes, listen, listen, we're all going to have a chat. And if we're, oh, we're not all going to chat about it. It's all going to go under the carpet. No one's going to, everyone's going to pretend it didn't happen. And I'm the only one that argues back with him because we're both talking.

are both stubborn. But he's my dad's like my best mate. I'm very close to both parents, but me and my dad had like a bond. Like we're going and watch the cricket lords next week together. We do it every year. We go and watch a cricket match. We know when I come up with brother, I was just like taking all his advice, all his financial advice. No, you don't want to do this. Like I'll always phone my dad if I'm in trouble or I need help. He's just like, I don't know. Maybe it's him that's the whole like, don't take compliments very well. Don't be silly. Don't be Silly. He's a bit like that, isn't he? How was fame for you, Kate, when you first experienced it

and how has it changed for you? Because presumably it's quite shocking initially. What a shock to the system? Going into Big Brother, no one knows who you are apart from your friends and your family, coming out, going to that same Henry's Bar in Bromley, going back there for a bottle of Blossom Hill Roseae, like the week after Big Brother,

that exact same bar you were in nine weeks ago and absolutely everyone knowing who you were, are getting mobbed and not being able to talk I didn't spend any time with my friends not that I'm complaining because actually you know people voted for me to win a reality TV show and I won 70,000 pounds I can't really you know complain about everybody coming up to me and talking to me about the experience and saying I voted for you can I can I have a photo and stuff like that but I did struggle actually presumably I'm just going to pick up Ray so come on Rui-Ree-Ree

Oh Ray can you see why he needs a pram. If this boggy was big enough okay you could Yeah, I can. I'm going to get him a pram. So you know what? He definitely fit underneath. We put him underneath? Give it a go. Yeah, look.

Maximum kilos under here, 13. Oh, mate, we're sorted. Look at that. Rui-way. Get into the basket. Whoa! Oh, he loves it. Do you think he likes it?

Here go, buddy. He's that comfy. Wee. Come on, Raymond. Let's go. Do I look crazy? Okay. This is hilarious.

Where's his head? Ray. Oh, he's sat looking to the right. Oh my gosh. He loves it. He's the perfect size. See, if Shirley was smaller, she could go underneath, not that she wants to. Wee.

Good doggies. Oh, he's got out. Oh, right. Okay. Come on then. Oh, we were talking about fame. So is it quite heady and a bit intoxicating initially? It was a new experience for me.

Like, I'd never experienced anything like it. I think some people kind of quite like it. I didn't mind it. It was very odd being asked for an autograph because I didn't know what to write. I was like, oh, I've never signed my name before. It was a bit weird. But that's how long ago it was.

People were asking for autographs, not selfies. But it was just strange because I'd go to the gym and I felt like people were staring at me exercise and I always felt like the gym was quite a nice place to be on your own and do your own little thing. I didn't really like going to the gym. gym much because I felt like I was being watched, which is ironic because I was on a TV show where

everyone was watching me. But that's the problem though, isn't it? It's quite a nefarious kind of fame to deal with because presumably that's what people counter you with. Every time you say, oh, this is a struggle or I'm not liking this, does that get thrown in your face of, well, you know, if you will do a show like that? Of course. I didn't actually speak out at the time. Oh, look, a little mouse. Did you see that? Oh, where? Look at Shirley. Oh my gosh, is that a squirrel or is that a mouse or is it a rat?

She's going to kill it. Or they're rats. There's three of them. They can't be squirrels. They're too small. What are they? Their little tails are really thin. Whatever they are, it's funny how context is everything.

So in the woods, adorable. Absolutely. I'm near my house. Dead to me. In your own house, crying. Yeah. No, we've got to get my... Look, there they are.

Oh, they're little field mice, aren't they? Yeah, they're teeny. Goodbye little mouse. I know where to bring a mouse. Oh my goodness, look, there's another one. Actually, that's a rat. Look at Shirley's stalking it. Oh, my gosh.

I don't think of rats liking the woods. Oh, gosh. I always think the woods are a bit too picturesque for the rats. She killed a rat the second day I adopted her. That's a lovely story, Kay. She shook it to death in front of me, and I'd had her for two days, and I thought, what have I adopted? I was so traumatized by that experience. She honestly, we were in the park, second day got her, I let her off her lean, and she sprinted after this, what I thought was a squirrel.

So she was shaking it in her mouth and I was like, drop it! Drop it now! And she dropped it, but she hadn't actually killed it. She'd more or less punctured its lungs and so it just went on its back and I ran over and I saw it and it wasn't a squirrel. It was a rat which took its last breath in front of me. And I was so upset. I rung my husband and I was like, babe, crying. and he was like, what's happened?

And I said, Shirley's... And he was like, he thought she died. He was like, you're such an idiot. Look, there it is. Come on, Ray. During that... I call it that sort of white heat period of fame that people get. Where it kind of really peaks, you know.

Find it. And did you get any advice from anyone who was helpful or useful to you in any way? Did anyone... I remember Brian Dowling, who won Big Brother too. Getting in touch saying, you've got to go with my... You've got to be with my agent.

She's the best agent. Don't worry about any other agents. And I was like, I need an agent. I found that bizarre as well. Because people in my series, the big brother, already had agents. And they were asking me when I was in the series

if I had an agent. I said, where I need an agent for? And do you find, Kate, that generally, this sort of public response is quite good to you now? Yeah, I guess, you know, I haven't got that level of fame where, I'm in the news all the time. I can just, like, walk down the street.

quite a nice place to be because I'm still working, you know, in radio and podcasting and I work with brands and do bits of TV and DJ. I do a little bit of everything, which is really nice, but I go unrecognised. So I don't get stopped really, you know, just before you arrived outside this lady, went, Oh, Baxter, I'm so pleased he's doing well. And it just, honestly, when he was poorly, I didn't realise how many people loved my dogs and it actually makes me feel so, it was so heartwarming. outpouring of love he got when he had pancreatitis and I just I couldn't

believe how many people like the amount of strangers who have stopped me on the streets going oh god he's so so glad he's still with us he gave us all a big scare it's really nice so that sort of level it's not I'm you know I like where I am now I did struggle with the whole like intensity of the first year after Big Brother because it was just so you couldn't do anything without being stopped and it kind of very much made you feel like you weren't spending time with the people you were going out with because you had to talk to other people. I felt like I had a duty to because they'd voted for me to win.

You see what I mean? And it was quite nice talking to people, but then obviously it calms down. And now I think I have quite a nice, I have an easy time. I don't, you know, I'm not famous for doing something really bad. So I don't get, you know, abuse on social media. The trolling on social media is, it's getting worse. Thankfully, I've got a really nice community. And occasionally I'll get the odd.

message or comment on a post and if i do it's usually from somebody who has zero followers who follows nobody and has never done a post and they haven't even got a profile picture yeah i'm like what get a life block move on yeah i used to kind of engage with it a little bit and reply and be all sassy it's really difficult that isn't it because i think it's so tempting to give the people that are nice air time don't give the yeah don't give the idiots who have got no life who have got nothing better to do with their time and to make up fake accounts. Do you know I had someone described it in a great way to me once, which is if you think of your life as a tapestry,

don't let those people feature on the tapestry of your life. And the minute you engage with them, they're there. Their little embroidery mark is there forever because you've engaged. You've let them in. And keep your tapestry clean of people like that. It's such a great way of looking at it. And you do feel better for it. I actually think if the moment you're getting involved in an argument online,

somebody you've never met, who you don't care about, and you would never have the courage to come up to you and say, oh my gosh, what are you wearing? Eat a burger. You're too thin. You're this, you're that. We say that. A woman just came up to me, and as you may recall, Kate Lawl, what did you say to my daughter? What is that? And I said.

I thought it was a handbag at first, and you said, nice to meet you too. What you really wanted to say is, I won't say what you want to. We have a bleeping function, it's fine. What you really wanted to say was. Oh, do you know what was nice there? That was really sweet. There was a woman there with baseball cap, a bit of a Kate Laura, millennial yummy mum, the blonde hair, the baseball cap.

I'm seeing it all. Three kids. And she looked over, and what was great was that she gave Kate the, oh, you know, my pain, sympathetic look. And then she looked in the pram and saw the dog, and I saw her face for. And I just say, you don't have a clue what it's like. I wanted to go back and shout. No, she does. She does.

Pervious. Everyone looks into the pram. Yeah. Oh, no, mum. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm absolutely fine. He's 13 and a half, babe's. It's even better.

Oh, dear. Yeah, it's a funny one. But, like, the hatred that, you know, some people get, oh, I feel sorry for them, but I have a pretty. nice community of online mates who are really kind and I think now don't you think news outlets because papers are kind of dying breed but news outlets aren't as mean anymore you know how like years ago heat would be skinny shaming everyone and fat shaming everyone and now I don't found an interesting way around it I don't

necessarily mean heat back what news outlets do now they do something even more evil I think which is they let the comments do the work all of them. They stir the pot. So what they'll say, they'll put a picture and they'll say showing off her curves. Yeah, showing off her curves or showing off her washboard abs in bikini selfie on holiday. There you go. She looked or she looked fabulously casual and relaxed if someone's got an uniron shirt or something. People are like getting rid of the comments. Yeah. And the news outlets are thinking to themselves, why would we do that? Yeah. People come online just to read the comments.

It's like that on Instagram now. My husband, his algorithm is so messed up. He gets served for these videos where he knows that he's being shown this video because there'll be funny comments that are really quite mean. They're trying to be funny. And some of them are funny, but some of them are really like,

like some people put stuff up knowing that they're going to get trolled with these comments because they know that they're going to get more. It's crazy that people would do that. But they do. They're like, oh, I might get loads of comments. comments on this that are, whether they're negative or positive, it's a win for me. They know. It's a crazy world we live in, isn't it? Kate, who in your sort of long career in entertainment now, which presumably back then,

you never would have thought was going to be the case necessarily. It's not like you felt presumably you were destined for this kind of life or career. Who in this lengthy career you've had in the entertainment world, who has been... someone you've met and you've thought, you know, people say never make your heroes. Is there anyone you've met and you thought, oh God, I'm so glad I've met them. They were everything I hoped and more. It's a strange one. I know that I've met a great deal of people, but one of my earliest memories of meeting somebody and thinking, wow, you're so famous, yet you're so lovely.

And down to where there was Matt Damon. It was my first ever interview of a celebrity. It was for Rise and it was doing a film. I think it was pretty much first-born movie. And he, at the end, was like, great to meet you, Kate. And I was like, he bloody remembered my name and everything. Like, what a pro. What a professional.

He was so lovely. I was probably asking him the worst questions, because I didn't have a clue what I was doing. But he was wonderful and charismatic and friendly and really kind to me because it was my first, I told him it was my first one, and I was shitting it a little bit. He was like, great job, Kate.

That was what he said at the end. He went, great job, Kate. And I was like, oh gosh, you're great. And then I met Keanu Reeves. It was a complete prick and it ruined it all. What a knobby was. Jeez. But to be fair, I asked him an awful question. I think I said who was the best kisser.

Oh, God. Imagine asking an A-List movie star who had to kiss two other women in a movie, two women in a movie. Imagine asking that person who was the best kisser. What an idiot. I was 22. Oh, why did I say that? He was like, come on, what a ridiculous question.

I was like, you're right, Keani. It was a ridiculous question. Oh, he was very rude. It's interesting that, isn't it? But I don't blame him. I asked hideous questions. You never forget those moments. I remember meeting Jim Carrey.

Stop it! Yeah, and do you know what? I had a crush on him for so many years. Okay, I was never that invested in the way that other people were. Were you not? And then when I met him, because it was very embarrassing, it's a lengthy story, but. I won't go into all the details of it.

But basically, so my childhood best friend is Jane Goldman, who's married to Jonathan Ross. So we've invented as we're 11. So her kids are my god kids. It's one of those, which just explains to you the rather strange reason why I had the key to Jonathan Ross's dressing room. And he was at the BBC when he had that chat show. And the two dressing rooms looked exactly the same. The star dressing room and Jonathan's on the other side of the building.

Oh, my gosh, you didn't. I let myself into the dressing room. And I'm sitting there. This was after the show, which Jim Carrey had been on, I opened booze, I think it was champagne, I started eating chocolates. I took my heels off. And then Jim Carrey walked in. Oh my gosh, this is the best story.

I said, do you want to drink? And it hadn't even occurred to me that this was his fucking dressing room. And there's a weird woman in there with her shoes off eating his chocolate and his free booze, drinking his booze. And he was so charming. And then just started chatting to me. Did you not find out? Yeah, because Jonathan then came in about 10 minutes later and went,

him, what are you doing? And I went, oh my God, it was like suddenly drawn on it. And he was laughing. But you know what? He was so classy about it. Yeah. And then when are you going, what are you doing? This is Jim Carrey's dressing room.

He just looked horrified. And then he made the connection what would happen, I think. But he didn't save me, the bastard. He said it was hilarious. He loved it. Oh my goodness. I'm really pleased. We shouldn't be shocked, but we are.

Listen, Kate, Lawler. Sounded a bit aggressive. Listen to me, Kate, Laura. I've got an aggressive sounding surname, don't I? Lawla. It's just so an gnaut. I hate my last name. You're a very, very lovely person to go for a walk with, I think.

You've got a very good energy. Oh, thanks. So are you. It's been fun. Don't you think it's been fun? Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. And Baxter's been on his best behaviour as always. And I really think our dogs get on quite well because...

Well, they're all doing their own thing. They're not worried about each other. Although Shirley's trying to kill right now as she's approaching another animal. What's she going for? What is it? Oh, it's a squirrel. Raymond does just like hanging at the back. Baxter's the sort of the emperor and he's enjoying it.

They're like the last three remaining ones in the Big Brother house. where everyone's like, I don't quite know how they've lasted this long. It's all a bit strange. But you know what? And they're all very different. And they wouldn't particularly choose to hang out together. They're the last three housemates. But they've made it work.

Yeah, they have. And they've all got their own fans. And some will much prefer Ramondo to Shirley. Others will be hating Baxter. Lazy. Look at him. He's not getting my vote. I'm not voting for Shirley.

She's an absolute troublemaker. All she's done is barked this entire series. Shirley. Come on Shirley. She absolutely loves going off and her own. It's just been great. Don't you think dog walking is the best form of exercise? I've always said it's my meditation.

Yeah, me too. I can't meditate. I can't just lay down on my bed and deep breath and we'll do all that. I really do enjoy. Dog walking solo. Dog walking solo or dog walking with somebody. I get stuff out of both. Do you know what I mean?

If you're on your own, you really can do that kind of taking all the smells, taking all the sounds, taking all the sights. Shirley, find it. And then if you're with someone, you just gas. Well, I meet a friend sometimes for a coffee or something. Yeah. And again, if you're feeling, I don't really want to have too intense a chap for whatever reason, it's really nice having the dogs as a slight distraction.

Of course. Because I think sometimes when you meet up with people, you sit down and it's like press play. right you're on you know whereas it's lovely having the dogs because you feel like oh I can just be a bit more of a supporting character rather than the main character for a bit and Shirley definitely has main character syndrome oh she really does all about you isn't it Shirley Baxter's managed to remain clean and I think higher gen I can I know now what he's going to do you see that bog of eternal stench he's about to walk through and then he'll require a bath just like Shirley would come along Baxter I love the bog of eternal stench that's what Shirley runs in every every day. Remind me how old Baxter is again. He'll be 14 in November. And so this is really good to know. I think exercise is still good then is it? Do you know what?

If I don't take him for a walk one day, the next day he really struggles. It's like his legs are seizing up. I think I have to keep him going. We take them on holiday with us every year. We do a road trip around Europe. We've done it. This will be the fifth year running. We've done it. We drive with the dogs through France. Last year we did Belgium, Switzerland, Italy and France we went to the Matterhorn, we went to Zermat in Switzerland which was one of the most beautiful the most beautiful road trip we've done today. Shirley was swimming in the in lake margiore we took them on cable cars up the mountains we did hikes, we got dog backpacks so we can put them on our backs when it gets a bit too much and this year we're driving to Plymouth and we're getting on the ferry to santander we're taking the car on the ferry and we're staying in a dog friendly cabin overnight so it's

24-hour ferry. So my husband and I, the toddler and the dogs, will all be in the same cabin. There's only a few dog-friendly cabins on this ferry. So if you don't get one of those, your dog has to be in a kennel outside. Oh no, you couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. I think that's going to break my heart if I see it. Baxter, come on darling. You're going to come with us. He's coming. Do you know what he does? He tries his luck. I think he thinks if I stop, she's going to get the biscuits out. So yeah, I'm so excited to take him. I feel like he's got one summer. I don't think he'll be here after night. I think, do you know, he could surprise us all,

but I feel like he slowed down so much and I don't know, what do you do if their legs stop working? Oh, Baxter, come on my darling. All right, your trick worked, find it. Ray, you are so greedy. He's licking his lips. Oh, I hate it when he licks his lips.

It's gross, Kate. His tongue looks like. It's gross when he licks his lips. The greed of the man. So yeah, we're taking back to Spain this summer. I'm going to start off in San Sebastian. We're going to drive across the Pyrenees. We're going to go south of France.

And we're going to drive up. Three week road trip. Someone actually messaged DM to my husband the other day saying, you are the worst example of a dad, dragging your dogs around Europe. And they don't want to be there. I'm like dragging our dogs around Europe. They're laughing.

They're having their time in their lives. They are having last year. If you just seen, he was swimming, he was doing his hydrostite. We've got dog life jackets for them. He was in the lake doing his hydrotherapy for free every day. He loved it. They were on the beach running around, chasing.

Like, they have the best time, and we make sure that they have their downtime. We don't drag them around Europe. When we pack our car up, we've got a roof box, and then we've got the suitcases in the back, and we've got the dogs on a dog bed with their harnesses, and they have got blankets and pillows. They're like living the life of luxury, and then... Why's the producers trying? Why did you cry? I just have seen you out back son this holiday.

Okay. Oh, babe, don't. Just to interrupt the producer, who's quite a fabulous, but quite a shadowy figure generally on this podcast. You'll make me cry. The producer has burst into tears at the thought of Baxter on his holiday.

It is sweet, though, makes me want to cry. Because after he had pancreatitis, when I had to leave him at the vet overnight, I said to them, what, can I take him home? And they said, no, he needs to be on a trip overnight. He's got to have fluids. And I said, can I just take him home and bring him back in the morning and they were like no he has to stay here and I said who's

going to be here with him she said well someone will come in at midnight and give him his meds and then someone will come in at eight and I was like I have to stay with him they were like we can't allow you to do that I thought about transferring him to a pet hospital and I was like what if he dies? I went home that night and I was like he's not coming home I was convinced he was going to die and my husband just kept saying he's going to give us one more summer and so this summer if this is his last summer will be the best one yet well don't keep talking about last summers, the producers not being able to do her job. And may I say, well, I'm...

I can't believe you're crying. It's so sweet. Isn't he the best, though? It is sweet, but can I just add, and a slightly more bitter... She's never cried over Raymond. Kate, you've got it in one. You're livid. I mean, Raymond, all sorts has been said and done about Raymond on this podcast.

I've been very deeply touching. Tributes have been paid. Stone cold as ice, this one. But look at Baxter. Baxter turned her into a wreck. He looks like a 90 year old. Like he looks 90. I'm so prepared for him now.

Like that whole pancreatitis thing, when he wouldn't come home with us and he was at the vet that night, I was just like, this is how it's gonna feel when he goes, this is how it's gonna feel. Baxter, find it. Come here, come here.

Right, Shirley, you leave the way, nervous. Someone actually asked me the other day if her name was nervous. Come on, Shirley. You're all right, Faye. Do you need a Kleenex? Bless her. So you look at Kate Lawler.

You're the one who looks after everyone in the group, aren't you? I do feel like I do that. Are you? Yeah, I do feel like I look after people. But also, I need looking off. No, no, no, I'm always, do you know what it is? My friend, actually, we're in Barcelona for my friend's Hendo in June. And Barcelona happens to have the worst weather when we were there.

We were in a nightclub, and it was an open-air nightclub. And then there was a thunderstorm, and it was lightning. and everyone was sheltering around the sides. And I said, we've got to make a run for it. We've got to get out of here before a thousand people leave this club when it closes. So we made a run. And I made sure everyone got in taxis before me. And I know when we got back to the hotel.

I was like, you're so like, you get in that cab, you get in that cab. Don't worry about me. I'll see you back at the hotel. But I was. I'm quite organised when it comes to anything like the bit of drama. I always want to make sure everyone's okay. Yes, I see that. But I can't look after myself.

Kate, we're going to let you go. It's so nice to do this. Any point soon, because you've got to pick your lovely daughter up. I have. I'm going to ask you one question before we let you go. Oh, goodness me. Which is, I often ask people this. What do you most hope people would say about you when you go out of the room?

And what do you most fear? Oh, I think what everyone probably most hopes and fears. Well, let's start with the good one first. Well, I'd like to think people when I leave a room say, she's nice than I thought she was going to be. I think people have an expectation sometimes when you've been on telly or you've in the public eye that you might be a bit of stuck up. I don't know.

I've had that before. Some people are like, oh, I thought you were going to be really up your own arms. I couldn't care if anyone says anything about my appearance. It really doesn't bother me. I get criticised for being slim. But I wouldn't like it if they said, gosh, she's a bit irritating. Yeah. But I know that I am.

That's the thing. You can't, no, not everyone can be liked. What about you, Emily? What about me? What do you, what do you hope people say about you when you, when you leave a room? What would be the nicest thing someone could say about you? And the worst.

Mine's changed over the years. I think I would have once hoped people would have said, oh, she's really funny or she's really charismatic. Yeah. And now I know this sounds a bit, like the thing you're meant to say, but I genuinely think with age I've realised I really want people to say I'm decent. Yeah. And I don't mean as in I'm a sort, because that ship is out. I just mean that I'm, I'm trustworthy. Yes. And I'm kind and decent. Those things really matter to me.

But I think any normal decent human being, any kind person would want that. You know, I mean, if you're an asshole, then you don't care what people think of you. I've never. I don't notice that. Whenever I meet someone who's a complete dick, they're always like, I don't help people think of me. And that's because you're a knob and that's why you don't care because you know everyone thinks that and everyone knows that. Everyone knows you're a brick. What I'd most like people to say about me is, Shirley! No, that's not what I want them to say.

I'd like people to say if they told me something, they could trust me to keep, to hold that secret. Yeah. That's a big one. Trust. Trust. Come on, Shirley! Shirley! leave me. She's obsessed with me to the point where it's unhealthy obsession. So she'd never

leave me. Right now she's probably running around the woods trying to find me. I'm so late for nurseery pick up. Shirley! Shirley! Shirley! Good girl! Oh thank God. Come on. Right. We just lost Shirley. Panic over. Kate. Shirley, where have you been? You've been having adventures? I hope you have fun. We've had the best time with you. Thank you so much for being so brilliant on this podcast. Oh it's been really lovely. I love this podcast. It's a great thing to do to walk with people and find out more about why people love dogs. They're the best thing ever. I know all animals are great, but dogs are just, there's nothing quite like it. The fact that you can have such a strong emotional bond with a dog when you don't even speak the same language,

you're not even the same species. And they just, and they and they reciprocate that love as well, that bond. You know what I mean? Kate Lawler, thank you so much. Have you enjoyed meeting Raymond? He's amazing. He really is the most interesting looking dog. I love him. Bye, Kay.

Bye, guys. Nice to meet you. I hope to do it again someday. Bye, Baxter. Bye, Shirley. Come on Square. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed.

And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.