Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Katherine Ryan (Part Two)

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

We're back with Katherine Ryan, along with her dogs Meg, Manny and Cardi B - this time we're safely out of the mud in her back garden.Katherine tells us about what it was like to film her own reality show, attachment parenting and the benefits of coyote vests.You can listen to the first part of our walk here!Katherine will be on tour with Battleaxe in 2024 and 2025. You can find tickets here!You can listen to Katherine's podcast Telling Everybody Everything wherever you get your podcasts. Katherine's reality show Parental Guidance is available here on UKTV PlayListen to Emily and Ray's first walk with Katherine from May 2017 hereFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Really hope you enjoy part two of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Catherine Ryan. Do remember to listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and we'd love it if you subscribe to Walking the Dog. Here's Catherine and Manny and Megan and Cardi B and Ray Ray. People often ask you, when did you know that you were funny? And I think in some ways, I don't know if that's the right question to ask a comedian because what I've discovered increasingly is that anyone who makes a decent living out of it, it wasn't a conscious decision.

Is that kind of how it happened for you, that it was just increasingly present in your life, that comedy was just always part of who you were and what you wanted to do? I mean, I think it's different for boys and girls. I think that it's been said before, and I concur that it doesn't make you popular as a young woman to be funny

and people don't really like it the same way that it's rewarded in young men. And it alienates you more than anything else. And you long to be quiet and gentle and pretty, or else I definitely did. I didn't want to have this thing that made people look at me in the way that they did, like disappointed and confused. And then I tried to be pretty and I worked. I did okay at that for a while as any 21-year-old young woman with access to hair, die in a spray tan, we'll tell you. And when I worked at Hooters, the girls there actually thought

I was really funny. And I had a tribe of girlfriends who always thought I was really funny. And even Bobby, early doors before I thought it even mattered, was like, you're really funny. And for some reason, I took that compliment to heart. I thought, oh, that's even better than being called pretty or thin or the things that I thought would feel really good. When Bobby thought I was funny, I thought it was great. probably because it's an asset that doesn't appreciate the way your youth does or the way being pretty does. I thought it was cool. Catherine met her husband Bobby when you were how old?

15. You were 15 and first love, now reunited. That's really interesting. I never knew that, though, that was something he said to you and I love that. I love that he got you because I just find it very reassuring that he didn't say that you're hot. obviously thought you were hot, but that he got you, that he didn't see that as a problem or if only she'd just shut up a bit. Yeah.

She looks great. I had boyfriends like that too, though. Did you? Who saw it as a liability, certainly after Bobby. I dated this boy who was a hockey player, ice hockey player. And he was a very straight-laced family. They were just a nice family. And they were not funny.

And they thought they were. My God. And anything I said. around that dinner table was met with very stern and confused looks. And my boyfriend would often say to me, like, why do you talk like that? Why are you like that? You don't have to say that. It's really embarrassing when you talk like that or when you, I can't even remember

an example where he would have said it, but he said it a lot. And it made me feel like, oh, I know, I agree. I don't know why I'm like this. I wish that I wasn't. Because I thought that it was a liability. I agreed for a while. And then when I started to get successful in this country, I was with a boyfriend who was really dumb. I don't know if he thought I was funny even. He was really dumb. Like one of the dumbest people I've ever met and his family was dumb. Oh, was his family dumb? And he really hated that I started getting successful and he would shout and scream about it and he needed to be seen to be a gentleman. So he'd carry my clothes. Like when I first did live at the Apollo, he was carrying my garment bag and I kept trying to get it back from him. I was like, I'll carry it. And he was like, no, no, no.

I'll carry it so that he could be seen to be carrying it, but I knew I'd get in trouble for him carrying it. And as soon as we got to my dressing room, we slammed the door. He was like, I should be the one with people carrying my shit to dressing rooms. And I should be like, it was really obvious on the table that this guy was a loser,

but I dated him for a while. And why do you think you didn't see it and everyone, do you think everyone around you saw it? And you didn't? Yeah, I did too. Everyone did. I just thought that the more of a prick he was, I felt like if I could turn it around,

And this makes me a narcissist. I've learned like I'm the bad guy in this scenario is that I was codependent and I couldn't let go of him. And I felt like, all right, yes, I've screwed up by dating this guy. But everyone watch. If I can turn this around and make him a good guy, then I won't have been wrong in the first place. And the more obnoxious and outlandish and controlling and everything else that he was, I was like, all right. But one more week of my good work on him and I can make him, you know, every time he cheated

on me. I was like, all right, I got a lot of work to do, but I'm going to bring him around. One day it all just melted away. One day I was like, it was great because I had a, I brought him to couples therapy because, again, I was working on him. And my therapist was so smart because she said, don't bring him in to talk to me because he won't respond to me very well. But I work sometimes in group therapy with like a mummy, like I'm daddy and this guy is mummy because this guy's like really gentle and he is a man so he's someone that I think your partner will not feel threatened by whereas your partner I can tell from hearing about him like hates women and won't respond well to me being confrontational I've a really not confrontational

therapist but like you know she says it as it is and she's like he will not respond to that so we went to see this gentle man therapist and I watched this again bringing it back to being in a theatrical family I watched what I viewed as a play this lovely tableau of my boyfriend lying and crying and creating this false narrative and getting sympathy for himself and the therapist sitting and taking it and being like, oh, really? And were you clear with this boyfriend that you didn't want him to sleep with other women? And I was like, yes. And then I thought, well, that's me. The therapist is me, just taking all this bullshit and he's him. And now I can see it from a third-party perspective that this guy's lying and he's pandering and

solicitous and he's a joke. And then I just left him like days after. I was like, oh. So it worked. Oh my gosh, it worked. And the therapist knew what she was doing as well. You had to show, don't tell. That's exactly what she did. And it was great. You don't you just had a baby when your career started taking off? How old was Violet when you did your first gig? Your first gig as a mom, basically. It was about three weeks. She was three weeks when I did my, yeah. But I wasn't really known. I was still just doing gigs and doing competitions. That was Latitude Festival. She was three weeks and I was on a new act competition

for Off the Curb with who was it? Like Doc Brown and Josh Whittacom presumably Rob Beckett and that whole crew, we all kind of started together, Ramesh and Sarah Pascoe. We're like a school class where we've always been on the same journey. Tom Allen was started with us. When you went on eight out of 10 cats,

like 2012 that kind of time wasn't it? Yeah. You did really well on that. And that was such a key moment, wasn't it? Like, the phone started ringing after that. Yeah. Eight out of ten cats was this star maker at the time. It was an interesting period in television that I feel badly that comedians don't have access to today.

Is that you'd go on mock the week or you'd go in eight out of ten cats and it could change your career. People would buy tour tickets based off a performance that they'd go on eight out of ten cats. tickets based off a performance that they saw on those shows. Right now, I think it's a little bit diluted. They're looking to social media and influencers. And you can go on television. And if you don't perform so well, you'll just be forgotten. I don't know, there's so much television.

I don't really know what's happened to that star system. I think Addison Cresswell, who was the boss of Off the Curb, which is the big agency that represents. obviously Jonathan Ross and Rob Beckett and Ramesh and Rosie Jones and Judy Love and who else, who else, everyone, Ellen Carr. Michael McIntyre. Yeah, Michael McIntyre, everyone. They're great. Addison was really genius because he had this system where he was like, okay, you'll go on tour and you'll go on Jonathan Ross and sell the tour tickets, and then he go on Michael McIntyre's Roadshow, and then he go on, and he had this system of just making stars.

And I got in right at the end of it. I went on 8 out of 10 cats, which, you know, which is Jimmy Carr's show. It's not off the curb. Do you remember first meeting Jimmy? Was he nice to you? I met him in an office. And he and I tell this story very differently. So you go in and you have sort of an audition at the Zepetron offices near Shepard's Bush. It's like a tryout if it's. Yeah, try out for eight out of ten cats. And it's just in a boardroom and you have two other comedians beside you on your team and two others opposite you. And then you have someone posing as Jimmy, just a producer.

and they do Jimmy's role and you try to do your jokes and you basically play the game. You do a mock show and there's an audience of just people from the office who are marking you and just decide if you're good or not. And it's weird because it's quite a sterile environment to do. Were you really nervous? No, you don't get nervous. I don't get nervous. Even then I was excited but I wasn't nervous.

And it's funny in the beginning stages of things. You have the boys usually kind of peacocking around and being like, like, oh yeah, I'm going to show off and get on. And they almost try to psych you out. I don't know if they do it knowingly or if it's part of their, you know, process. But I did very well. And Ruth Phillips was in charge then as she is now. And she was really gunning for me.

She was like, oh, you did really well. We're going to bring you back for another run through. And this time Jimmy's going to be real Jimmy. I was like, ooh, okay. And I still wasn't nervous. I was really excited. And I loved that. You know, you call it nervous, call it excited, call whatever you want.

It was like, oh, it's a chance. I loved these opportunities. I loved the pressure of this thing is coming up and I get to write jokes for it. And then I get to perform those jokes and I know they're going to be really funny. And I hope that everyone else thinks they're funny. I like that process. And I did well again. Jimmy left.

I think I did really, really well. When I left that room, Ruth Phillips was like, yes, you did great. And then I think I got booked that afternoon. She called Mage and right away. and got me booked. So then I always tell that story as Jimmy would have okayed me to be on the show.

I think that's how that works or he certainly didn't stand in the way. I said Jimmy gave me the opportunity to be on eight out of ten cats. And then Jimmy says, no, I thought you weren't strong enough but they put you on anyway. But that's Jimmy's way.

He always has to have the joke answer or maybe it's true. But that's our language of love, I think. Well, behind your back, he's always said how brilliant he thinks you are. He's always, um... That's what I love about Jim. Such a big supporter of yours.

He doesn't say nice things to your face and he will only say them behind your back. I love that about Jimmy. Do you? Yeah, Jimmy loves us both. We're Jimmy's like sisters. We're Jimmy's big brothers, you and me. Yeah, but which one's earwig?

Me. I'm earwig. I'm Jack. No, no, it's me. No, he's great. And Jimmy gets it. Jimmy's survived a lot of like potentially cancelable events and jokes

and the tax thing. And Jimmy's just so authentically funny. I feel really, really lucky to know him. And people I think are figuring out how nice Jimmy is now, which could hurt the brand. Well, I think people might be figuring out how nice you are. Because...

Finally. Fucking idiots. This is the thing I think that Jimmy and I share and comment. First of all, Jimmy said to me, one day when we were working on your face of mind. He said, you know, you'll always work because you always have the right attitude. You're always in the right mood. And I thought to myself, yeah, yeah. What does you mean by that? I'm always, I've got energy for work. I'm never complaining about

anything. Jimmy and I are alike. Never complain, never explain. We just like, we never lose sight of the gratitude that we have, I think, to be in this industry. And if you book Jimmy for anything, I love this about Jimmy. I've seen him do little smaller, panel shows. You know, Jimmy's off selling like 1.2 million tour tickets on the biggest world tour ever, ever, that anyone has ever done right now. He sold 1.2 million tour tickets for just this tour. And he'll still come on and do a favor, you know, do a little panel show for someone that he doesn't really have to do. He'll go on Celeb Juice, which I love. But Jimmy's huge. He doesn't have to do that. And he does it. And not only will he show up,

he'll be the funniest person. He can count on him. He came on this election special we did for Channel 4, which was absolutely bombing because the conservatives came out so strong in the early polls. And then we had nowhere to go. There was no jeopardy. And we still had to be on television for nine hours. And Jimmy showed up in the middle of the night, like hour five, with all these gags, while people were crying. And Jimmy was funny. He's always funny.

I get the sense you've quite consciously almost used him as a bit of a role model, like professionally. Yeah. But do you say that's true? Definitely. as glamorous as Jimmy is almost. And we love to work. And I think we're self-made. And we never forget how lucky we are to do this job.

A lot of creatives are quite chaotic. I feel like you've brought more of a business sense to your career. You had like a proper five, 10-year plan? I definitely didn't, but I just have mental health, I think. Jimmy has pretty robust mental health too, I think. And the reason that we can act mean is I don't think mean people are comfortable acting mean because they don't want to be caught out. And there are these comedians who are on stage like, I'm such a nice family man.

And then they don't do reality shows because they don't want to be caught out acting like the asshole that they are. I think the longer you stay in this industry, though, people surely have got a, like word gets around. And that's what I love about the comedy industry. They sort of do their own gatekeeping. Like, you find out fast if somebody is disliked. You're very well liked, though, I think. Well, I think so. I think...

I like that you've got the confidence to say, I think so. Yeah, I think people do like me, though. Because you can tell if someone's successful, like, there are all these little WhatsApp groups and the sleeper cells, like, slagging them off for their success and for how they're handling their success. success and do other things. But then there are people that when something good happens for them, you just genuinely wish them well. And I feel that way about so many people, but I quite

enjoy slagging off the ones who we don't like too. And I think I'm self-aware enough to know if I'm in the don't like group. I want to chat about your reality show, which I absolutely loved. I'm glad you said that, because we're probably going to do series two. And we need some secondary characters. I couldn't stop watching it. I'm a big fan of UK TV plays one of my faves. Me too. I want it all the time. They've got great content. Can we spread the word, please?

Outsiders, original taskmaster was on UK TV. Fine, but it's no parental guidance. It's brilliant. So it's Catherine and Bobby, and the whole family, you basically let cameras into your house. And as you'd expect with Catherine Ryan, it's pretty no holds barred. I haven't even heard your review of this show. You've always been a big fan of the Kardashians. Was that what appealed to you about doing the show?

I feel like my podcast is very, what's called telling everybody everything. So I tell everybody everything. Just like my mom growing up, I always give people full disclosure. I feel like my language of love is intimacy, and I want people to tell me their secrets. And they do because I tell everybody everything. I meet strangers at the park or in the soft plate, and they come up to me and they're like, well, my dad's sick. And I love that.

I love jumping over all that small talk and feeling like I have a community of friends. And that's what I find with people. If you give them a lot of yourself, they'll give it back to you. And it's just a shortcut. And then I put a lot on social media. And I just thought, why wouldn't we have an immersive docu-series where we're visiting families, but also I'm opening up my family in a different way. We were a little bit cautious of filming kids too much.

And Bobby, again, is not. He's quite a natural, but he's not a seasoned professional like I am. So he was a bit like, what? We're going to have cameras where? But he eventually was fine with it. Violet, I think, was the standout star, though. She was the real Chloe Kardashian. I would say to Violet, because she's almost 15.

Surely Vanity is going to come into play at some point. They're very good. their duty of care at W Network and UKTV is so high when they're dealing with minors. There's all this sign-off that's required, but then also they want to talk through what being on television means with a psychologist or a therapist, a licensed therapist would talk to Violet and go, are you sure you want to do this and do you know what it means? Your friends might be able to see it or ridicule you for it or screen grab some of it or it might mean this and this. And they do that not just with

children. I think with anyone who's not a professional. They talk to you about the exposure and how social media might react, et cetera. And they spoke to Violet about all those things. And she was like, yeah, it's fine. And I emailed the school and I said, just so you know, Violet's going to be on the show. And there might be some blowback. There was none. I just think in this day and age, kids are self-published.

They're all on social media. Violet didn't give a shit. And I offered, oh, do you want me to do your hair, your makeup? You're going to be on TV today. She's like, I don't care. She would just walk into the room, totally not a scrap of makeup. jogging buttoms, just acting like herself. And she's so the opposite of like a stage school kid.

I think that was what was so charming about her. She didn't care. And she was just totally, totally herself. She was completely authentic, which is actually the key to those shows. And I think Bobby was as well. I mean, I knew you were obviously going to be. And Fred, you know, he does Fred. No.

They sent us if I could just tell you, who was it? This health and safety people, whomever, compliance sent us a list of slams about Fred that we had set and they said I'll get it out for you and they said are you sure you want to say all these things about your two-year-old son? How many do you have now? You have Violet, you have Fred, you have Fenner. And Fenna is she is an angel. She'll put a foot down, you know, when she wants something. She makes sure that she's understood. But oh my gosh, she is the light of our lives. She sleeps the best. She's never sick, she never cries, she's potty trained early.

She pushes Fred to do things so people will see what Fennon can do, even physically. She's like an athlete, she golfs. And people will say, oh, she's learned to do that. So she golfs. How old is she? 15 months. Fred, it's a good lesson for Bobby actually because Bobby wanted, he imagined that he would have this athletic footballer son who would like golf with him and Fred is not that.

Fred cannot be interested. like me when you throw a ball. It's like Ray when you throw a ball. He's like, what do you want me to do with that? How dare you? I'm coordinated micro penis. Is there anything else you want to say about him? He doesn't. In fact, I think goalhung who make this podcast are going to send us a list of things you've said about Ray today. Fred slams. Can we hear about, so what Fred Slams was the list they sent you? Here we go. I got this message from compliance. just could you check with Catherine that she's happy with the below. She's, of course, seen all the episodes, but it'd be good to know if she's checked over the list

and still doesn't have an issue with the mentions of Fred. Okay, episode one. Fred is a high-maintenance guy. Episode two. Fred's got a lot of energy and needs rugby and friends. Episode three, a mention of Fred's rage in reference to terrible twos, nothing else. Episode three, Fred is warming up to my mom, and that's amazing because I didn't think it would happen. Fred is the type of man, like many men.

You come on too strong, you get in his face, he won't text you back. You act like you don't care that Fred exists, and he will come to you. And that's very cleverly how my mom played it. Episode four. I've carried that on with Fred. I go, Fred, you're a strong boy, you're a smart boy, you're a soft boy, you're a gentle boy, you're a sharing boy. And admittedly, he doesn't like the soft stuff.

He's like, why is my mom roasting me with all these slams about me being gentle and lovely and sweet? What's he doing now? Fred's outside with his executive assistant, doing some type of of construction work. No one taught him to do that. Go into the toy shop, all the girl things about being a princess and also a cleaner. He doesn't want any of it. Boys' toys are very, I'm going to save the world, I'm going to be a builder. I run all the emergency services. I'm going to be a shark at the same time. I never envisaged myself as the mother of a boy.

I didn't really know anything about boys. I have sisters. Boys are not an interest of mine. It's tough raising a boy though. I used to rally against the patriarchy and now I'm a factory for the straightest, whitest man I've ever met. I don't even think these are slams. These are fine. Bobby and I are in agreement that while Fred is a really funny, good time guy, if we had another boy or another Fred, it might be the end of us. There you go. Not too bad. But that's how our family is. We love Fred. But now he's an artist. He's a nice guy. But it was a lot of work. I mean, it was a lot of hours. And the kids got a little bit annoyed after a while. So I think they want to do a second series.

But I'd want to take it more in a direction of like, this time, we looked at other families and how they parent. I think this time I'd like to look at other marriages, like how to be the perfect wife. And then I could go along meeting like wives who are bad. Not bad, but like, you know, wives in like compromising position where I wouldn't want to be that wife. You know, different shapes of families, like a thruple or like a wife

who's like one of those trad moms on TikTok. Yeah. Because I still don't really know how to be a wife, how to be the right wife because I never wanted to be one. just like I never wanted to have a boy, but now I have one and I love him. I love being a wife, but I'm like, am I the husband in this family? What am I doing? So I think marriages are really interesting to me, because how do you make them last for like 60 years?

I don't know. How? How have you made this marriage lost? For five years? I'm running off sheer momentum from the elopement and the kids. Five years is easy. Everyone's still in love after five years. Really? That's good.

Unless you're really doomed. Like Bobby's first marriage lasted, I think, 10 months or something. Like a real, he is a Kardashian honorary. But then it's interesting as well that with the kids, you banged them out, didn't you? Yeah, because I was old. In medical terms, I suppose. In medical terms, geriatric.

But you always talk about how you sleep separately. And is that attachment parenting care? It's part of it, yeah. So we respond to our, what are all these migrating birds doing? You know what it is? Our dogs are so small that I think birds see them as rabbits. Do you know, as a result of you, I'm absolutely neurotic and paranoid about birds of prey. Do you have a coyote vest?

I'm sorry. And to you? It didn't go with what I was wearing today. I'm wearing a Prada jumper that you gave me. I'm not going to put coyote vest on. Well, I have a spare coyote vest for Ray if he wants one. It is a little vest with spikes all over it. Tell me about attachment parenting.

Oh, yes. Was that conscious then, or did you just start doing it? It felt instinctive. It definitely felt instinctive when Violet was small. That, like, why would I let her cry alone and just realize that I'm not coming and give up? Like, I still think that's crazy. Although, I know a lot of families use the cry-it-out mess.

or sleep training, they call it, because they need their kids to sleep through the night, because they need to sleep for the night, because they're on the checkout at Morrison's in the morning, or they're a nurse. And if they're not rested, people start to die. You know what I mean? Like, okay, so that's important. And I think the best thing that a baby can have is a calm and peaceful caregiver. So if you really need eight hours of sleep at night, then by all means, let your child cry in their bed, they're safe. But I do think it gives them mental health issues later on. I do think so. Like, how can it not? I think a baby's brain is doing a lot of interesting things and drawing a lot of conclusions and it writes on the canvas of who they are.

But again, if you're going to be a nightmare in the day and you're going to be abusive in the day, I think that's worse. So fine, let them cry at night. Because we need artists. We need comedians. Like, we need people with mental health issues. But my children, I don't know. I just can't do it. We can't do it. But we're from a privileged perspective where like I can be a little bit tired. That's okay. And I have a babysitter and I have Bobby at home and I can sometimes have a nap in the day. It's fine. But last night I was up no fewer than 30 times because everyone's sick. Everyone's sick. They can't breathe so they just wake up all the time. How do you express anger? I just don't get angry that often. I certainly get frustrated

in the night. My children are too old to call like a name under my breath. They'll understand it. Like, I used to be like, you fucking bastard. And I'd say it in a nice way. I'd be like, you, I'd be singing, you are my sunshine, but I'd do it to the words,

would be like, you fucking bastard. My only bastard. And Fred didn't know. Don't ever take my bastard. And that would just make me feel better. And then I'd kind of laugh to myself and I'd be in a good mood again. But I'm lucky.

Again, that I have Violet. Violet's a teenager, and I know how fleeting the infancy is, and it won't last forever. But I think I don't get angry very often. I really don't. I don't have, like, rouse with anyone in the house. Once I got angry, I went to your house. That's when I was really angry. Yes, I was really glad you came to my house.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for dropping everything, which I think was an imminent interview with Claire Balding. How did that go? I was fine. Great. And it's good. I think there are certain friends who train each other almost to be, like, I don't ask for things often.

Because there are some people who are really needy and want to complain about the same problem, but they don't actually want to solve it. And I just phase those people out. I'm like, you got too many problems and I have a family. But then you have friends who are like, I don't need anything from anyone. Like, I suffer from hyper independence almost as a, like, fault. I will never ask anyone for anything. So when I do reach out, then I'm lucky that I have friends who are like, oh, shit.

Like, if I call anyone on the telephone, on the app of my phone, titled phone, people think that something's really wrong. They're like, oh my gosh, and they always answer because they never call anyone. And I was very lucky that you made space for me that day because I was pissed off. But I haven't really been crossed since that day.

It's like we had an incident earlier with that guy in retrospect, not unreasonably. It was unreasonable, Emily. And there's a woman on the bus who's like that. She's in this neighborhood. I take the bus. because I'm a man of the people. I like that you take the bus.

Yeah, I love taking the bus. When people are rich and famous like you, I think sometimes they stop getting the bus, not because they don't want to get the bus or the tube, because sometimes it's more convenient. Yeah. It's the idea of how it will be perceived. See, this is why I think I might have something wrong with me,

because I don't care. But there's a woman who gets on the bus, and she's old, and you can be a nice old lady or a mean old lady, and she's a mean old lady. So she's a bitch, and she's old, and she gets on the bus, and she demands this one seat that she, I love her.

And it's not even like a disabled seat. It's like a different seat, but she's like, this is my seat. And then she doesn't let anyone make any noise. And she really snipes at people. And I'm not even talking about music blaring on the phone. Like, she'll snipe at Fred if he's crying. She'll snipe at Fred. She's just really rude to everyone.

And I said to her one day, like, why don't you drive your limousine to where you're going? And she was like, what? And I said, why don't you drive your limousine to where you're fucking going? And she was like, Well, I have a right to take the bus like anyone else. I said, exactly. It's a public bus. Like, it's a bus.

So if you want full silence and if you want your own special seat, drive your limousine or you don't have a limousine, then shut the fuck up. Because that's the Erica Jane that I am. I said that to an old lady. But it took like 10 times of me witnessing her be rude to say that. And what did she say? Nothing.

Yeah. So the exponential meanness that she was in. and acting on everyone all the time. Like, she was being mean to, like, 20 people every day, and I was mean to that lady once. Yeah. So I feel, like, justified in everything that I said. You Lance the Boyle.

Mm. Lance the Boyle. Should have been the name of my next tour. Can you tell me, before we leave you in peace, can you please tell me about your next tour? I'm going to come and see it. It's called Battleax. In honor of the woman on the bus.

In Battleax. Why is it called Battleax? Well, really, because my friend Andrew Johnston, who is a queer comedian, living in Los Angeles and one of my oldest friends. He has picked out many tour names for me, like Nature's Candy. And then when I started dressing really glamorously, he was like, kitten, yes, he calls me kitten. He's like, this is it.

Like, this is how you have to dress. He always really makes me feel motivated to be more and more glamorous. And then he said to me, just out of the blue, he said, you should call your next show battle acts. And I went, yeah. And then I thought about it. And it's a weapon of war, but it's also a derogatory term for older women who are opinionated. And I just like reclaiming derogatory terms about women. I think it's cool to be an

older lady who's opinionated. Battleax. It's cool. It's cool word. I don't want you to give anything away. But is Bobby Kay going to feature in it? Yeah, I think I always have to talk about my life and try to hold a mirror up to people who come to see me. And as I evolve and my life changes, I think my audience, probably their lives change too in it. I reflect culture. A lot of the time I'm going to talk about celebrity things, talk a bit about my own life, try to bring back some spice I think that we're missing. Like, I really love roasting celebrities. And I think people are prepared for that to happen again. And I got people in my sights who I love, my favorite are like good people who've done nothing wrong. Like Stacey Solomon, I'm so sick of watching her glue shit together and like

calling it something that it's not. And Emma Stone really rubbed me the wrong way at the Oscars too for crying and for being like, oh, my dress, the zipper, I was absolutely horrified on behalf of everyone at Louis Vuitton. I was like, bitch, you have been gifted that dress as a loan. Why would you highlight the broken zipper? And everyone loves Emma Stone, so it's about time. And she dated Andrew Garfield, which is inexcusable. Well, Catherine, can I come and see you in Battlelux? Yes. So many places are already sold out and the tour doesn't even start to the autumn. So that's been very uplifting. There is a show in St. Albans near here that I hope they add one to because that one sold out right

away because of all my friends that I make on the bus. And I've got some palladium dates that you should come to because that's always fun. And I'm always telling people that Taylor Swift might make an appearance just because I feel like that gives ticket sales a real boost. She's definitely not coming. Does she know about you? She must do. She does. I've met Taylor Swift at the NME Awards. And Lena Dunham told me that Taylor Swift even knows about my Taylor Swift jokes and thought they were funny. And it takes a true, you know, woman who knows herself to be able to also laugh at herself.

So I appreciate them. And I might even talk about Taylor Swift on the tour. I've got so many, like, hypotheses at the minute. It's interesting to me that men, by and large, don't seem to want to have sex with Taylor Swift. Yeah. And they want to have sex with Beyonce, and they want to have sex with Rihanna.

Boys that? I don't know. And I'm going to explore it further in, Battle X. And they get outraged by the number of boyfriends that she has because they're like sexy, high-powered, amazing, nice boyfriends. But like Kevin from Accounts, who's got the baldness you earlier described, is like, I wouldn't fuck Taylor's.

Oh, that's why it's not happening, Kev. It's interesting. Catherine Warren, thank you so much. Thank you. I love you, I miss you. I'm happy that we could get together in a professional setting, such as this wonderful podcast. So goodbye, please, Catherine, for the podcast.

Bye, bye, Ray. Bye. We love you, Catherine. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.