Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Krishnan Guru-Murthy (Part One)

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

Join Emily and Raymond in Kew with one of the nation’s most respected news presenters - Krishnan Guru-Murphy. Krishnan is a journalist and the lead presenter of Channel 4 News - and we were thrilled to meet him and his chihuahua - Chubby Chops! Chubby is very sweet boy with a very self sufficient and independent spirit… he and Ray didn’t exactly hit it off - but that’s what you get when you put two introvert dogs together! We had such a fascinating walk with Krishnan - finding out all about his childhood in a medical family - and how his passion for performing led him away from following in his father’s footsteps to become a doctor. There are so many interesting facets to Krishnan - and we found out that there is a lot more to him than just being the king of news… You can watch Ways To Change the World on YouTube here - or you can find it on all podcast platforms.Follow @krishgm on InstagramSee more of Krishnan’s work on Channel 4 News hereFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I mean, I don't want to offend anyone with Labradors, but, you know, a dog that will eat stones is just not really my kind of dog. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I headed to South West London to Picture SQ to take a stroll with Channel 4 News presenter and journalist, Krishna Guru Murphy. Now, I'm not quite sure what kind of a dog I expected one of our nation's most respected news presenters to have, but I was leaning perhaps towards a solid, hardworking Labrador. What I wasn't expecting to see Krishna arrive with was an adorable little chihuahua called chubby chops, who he is clearly utterly obsessed with. But then one of the things I loved about Krishna was realising just how many interesting facets there are to him behind that very composed person we see on the news. We had a fascinating chat talking about his early years growing up as the son of a radiologist, who seemed certain to follow in his dad's medical footsteps,

but who clearly had this passion for performing he wanted to explore. Krishnan is obviously immensely articulate and impressive, but there's also this playful, slightly of reverence side to him that I really warmed to, one in fact that we all got to see a bit more of when he appeared on Strictly Come Dancing, which it seems like his son has finally forgiven him for doing. He also presents a brilliant Channel 4 News podcast called Ways to Change the World, which features very revealing in-depth chats with everyone from Arnold Schwarzenegger to Tim Peek. And it's a fantastic listen, so do get involved if you haven't already.

Ray Ray and I loved our walk with Krishna and I really hope you do too. I'll stop talking now and hand over to the man himself. Here's Krishna and Chubby Chau. and Ray Ray. I'm recording from now. Okay, how's that? 1, 2, 3, 4.5. You're happy?

Yeah. Can I just say, this is the first time. I've been doing this podcast a long time that I've ever had anyone so professional that they've done their own sound show and said, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Oh, well, you know, it's when you do your own podcast,

isn't it? You get used to it. I think you'll find it's when you're the king of news. Krishnan, I've got to say you had me at hello, and it's not you that had me it's your dog. This is chubby, chubby chops actually. We didn't name him, but when we went to get him from the breeder, the breeder had called him chubby chops because he was the biggest in the litter. And he's quite a big chihuahua as you can see. She said, well, what do you want to call

him? And the kids said, well, no, that's his name. And they were like, what do you mean? She said, well, he's already got a name. You've named him. So that's his name. So they refused to rename him. So he's been chubby chops over since. Do you know, Chubby Chops? He's a bit scared, I think, of your dog. Yes, because as you... He's hiding behind me. My dog is a giant slavering Doberman.

You are actually bigger than this dog. So my dog is called Raymond. Raymond. Very sweet. Raymond, can you meet Chubby Chops? I hope Raymond is not fat-shaming Chubby Chobby Chops. It's not being fat-phobic. Chubby Chobby Chops is actually got a little.

lovely physique, may I say. Yeah, no, he's not really. I mean, he's a bit overweight, I have to say, but he's not massive. Come on. Let's follow Krishna. Let's go this way. Do you know, already, I'm loving you, Christianin, because I love the fact that you have the confidence to have a dog like chubby chops. Well, I mean, I have actually carried him around in a handbag. Did you? And I've cycled around with him in a basket. But he doesn't really like that. I mean, in truth, he's not really my dog, but I do walk around with him a lot. Talk me through when you got him then.

You, it was, because you were never really a dog person. I was very much not a dog person. If I was the villain of the family, you know, I used to make them all cry and say, no, we'll never have a dog. I didn't actually make my wife cry very early on in our marriage by saying, just forget it, we will never have a dog. get it out of your head. And that was brave.

She thought I was terrible. She thought I was terrible. But no, it was when the kids were little, my daughter was seven, she desperately wanted a dog and they would ask a lot and I would always say no and they would never understand why. And I think I didn't really understand why either at the time. But one day we just kind of changed our minds and we thought, okay, fine, this will be the distraction and glue in the family that we all need. So we went out and got him.

And it was always going to be a chihuahua because my wife got Jasmine, our daughter, our oldest daughter, a little toy chihuahua when she was nine months old and she took him everywhere with her for three or four years and he was called Rufus. And so that, you know, a chihuahua and Jasmine was like, like that was always going to be a thing. I like Jasmine because you know what she kept it very

classic and traditional with Rufus. Yes. And then here we are with chubby chops. Yeah. Oh chubby you're so sweet. But that's the thing I would not have pictured you with chubby chops because I, and this is you know wrong with me. I would have thought I always like to guess the dogs people will have and I I would have thought classic classic Labrador. No. I mean, we did actually have a Labrador when I was a teenager briefly But no, I'm not a Labrador person really I mean, I don't want to offend anyone with Labrador's

But, you know, a dog that will eat stones Is just not really my kind of dog Keep up with Chubby Chops Chubby's clever and quite funny And that's kind of my thing You know, he's a bit, he sort of rules the roost So adorable For example, if I try and take you onto the bridge down

he won't why because he doesn't like the bridge it's noisy and full of the see he knows where he's going oh chubby will you pick him up then we're going to go this way anyway let's go down the steps rye and chubby come on guys he doesn't like the bridge because it's noisy and it vibrates a lot when lorries go over it so he kind of shakes with terror my ray is quite fearful of the world in general yeah he's quite anxious well if you're only that big then you would be yeah I think so. Well, that's why he's, I can see, Christianan. He's immediately relaxed and his tail's going, because he met Chubby and he thought, oh no, this is one of my people. Which way are we going? So I should see. We're going to go down here onto the towpath. This is where the Banksy has just been removed. So I should say we're in sort of Q area. Yeah. And I had no idea.

So if you remember last year, Banksie went around London doing various animals and this was the goat. I think it was the first one. The owners of this building have just had it cut out of the wall. And we're not quite sure whether it's because they want to go and flog it and make loads of money or whether it's really because they're renovating this building and they're going to put it back, which is what everyone's hoping. But it doesn't really look like it because they've bricked it all over. So who knows?

But yeah, we've had crowds standing there for the last few months as people come and admire the goat. Wow, it's amazing, isn't it? I'm sure they would sell it on. They'd be crazy not to it. It seems kind of a shame, though, in some ways, you know, because I think it's sort of against the whole spirit of Banksy in a way. Yeah, he put it there for us. Yeah.

Wow. But I think they go, well, actually it's ours. It's our property. So we'll have it. This is such a beautiful area, Krishna. Why do you live in this part of the world? Well, you're going to get, soon the sense that I have very little say over anything in my life.

We moved here when the kids were very little and my wife didn't want to live in Notting Hill anymore which is where we were. Take him off now. And she wanted to live somewhere green and not quite, you know, she wanted to go to the country really but I couldn't because of work and I didn't really want to go to the country full on But Cues are sort of an ice in between. It's green and close to the town.

And it's got a tube station. And you grew up in... Well, it was Liverpool. You were born in, was it? And then you moved to Lancashire? I was born in Liverpool, grew up in Lancashire. We moved to Lancashire when I was about four. And lived in the countryside, in sort of big houses in villages in East Lancashire.

Until I was 18. and then I got my first job and moved out. And I lived in Scotland for a bit and then went to university in Oxford and then moved to London in 1990. What was it? 1992. Can I mean if I'm wrong on this, but I read that you lived in a Gothic folly at one point?

Yeah, I mean, it was a huge vanity project built by a guy in the 20s. And it was a lovely house, sort of Gothic, not massive, but I mean, it looked massive. It looked a bit like a castle. Wow. It was a beautiful old house in four acres of very nice gardens. And this was with your folks who, your dad was a consultant radiologist.

Yeah. Also, Krishnan, I believe. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, he is. I mean, actually, to be honest, he's not really. He kind of made that up because where he comes from in South India, you just have one name and two initials.

And your first initial is the village from which the family originates. then your second initial is your father's name and then you have a name. So all his siblings had the same initials and then a name. But when he came to this country he had to invent a first name and a surname. And so he called himself Christian and Guru Murphy. And Guru Murphy his name became his surname.

So our names were all a bit of a nonsense. But I think no, I think actually technically it's correct that he changed his name at some point in time legally. And I'm not sure whether I was Krishna before him, whether he might have changed his name legally after me. So he kind of looked like a guy who only knew one name.

And it strikes me, I mean, his origin story is so interesting, isn't it? Because he came from pretty humble beginnings. Very humble beginnings, yeah. I mean, he was... He didn't have shoes, did he? He was an orphan, and, you know, the family, the brothers and sister brought each other up. and he went to medical school and became a doctor and then came to the country. And yeah, so he made a big quantum leap from where he started.

And your mum, she also could have gone to medical school. Well, she did go to medical school, but then she quit. Right. To become a homemaker. She went to university very young. I think that's 16 and got married at 17. And then stayed on for a couple of years attempting to finish her medical degree, but was, I think, distracted by being married

and ended up giving up and coming to this country and never quite finished. Tried a couple of times, but never quite did it. Oh, no, good. They're getting to know each other, yeah? Oh, it's really cute. And you've got a sister and a brother, haven't you? That's right, yeah.

And I'm getting the sense, because they're both our achievers as well. And was it a sort of a family where you were sort of encouraged to work hard and yeah yeah i mean yeah i think you know it's the immigrant mentality of you come here you're going to make the most of your opportunities education is everything so you sacrifice everything to give your kids the best education possible and all the opportunities you possibly can so we had music lessons and you know drama and all those sort of anything we kind of wanted to do and yeah you know we were pushed i suppose to do well i mean we were we were we were pushed you know we were but also allowed to do whatever we wanted.

So that's why we ended up doing sort of strange things like journalism and TV and politics. Who was the disciplinarian, your mum or your dad? I'm not sure either of them were really disciplinarians to be honest. And they would swap. I think that's the best thing to do, isn't it? You've got to swap around good cop, bad cop, if you're parenting. Because I think a simple role is to, to, to, to, to, to, you know. dimensional and you define your relationship too easily.

So no, I mean, I think they would each encourage one day and then push the other, be exasperated one day and best friends, the next sort of thing. I'm always interested in the role you play with your siblings. I think three is always quite interesting because there's always somebody who's the, I suppose, the show off baby spice. Was that you? Well, I don't know. I mean, the dynamics of our three are slightly different to a normal three.

I think because for seven years it was just me and my sister, Gita. And then my brother came along. Oh, right, because he's younger. So when he arrived, he was very, like, we were very excited to have a baby brother. Yeah. And kind of looked after him quite a lot. And he, I suppose, has been the glue in the family generally. Like, he's the one who everybody always gets on with.

So that's that sort of the easy relationship And because I suppose we're an Indian family I was also Although I was the second I was the first boy So that introduces a different dynamic In the way that you get treated

So What is that dynamic? I don't know The thing is with our sort of Indian culture It's very pick and mix It's always been very pick and mix with us mum and dad was sort of very easy going in some ways, but then would also try and sort of say,

well, this is the way things would have been done in India. But I suppose by default, their sort of innate patriarchal system would come out in the way that they were treated us. I would quite often get treated like the oldest, I suppose, when we were relatively young, much to my sister's annoyance. And she didn't, you know, and also, But that's not in every way.

I mean, in all the traditional ways of sort of teenage battles, she fought them first. And I benefited from it. So she had all the rouse about... She hacked through the undergrowth with the machete. Yeah, can you go to the pub? Can you go to nightclubs? Can you have a boyfriend?

All those sorts of things. And then I came along and went, well, yeah, fine. I'm going to the pub now. And this was in the days when kids used to routinely break the law and go out in the pubs doesn't really happen anymore no your children would never have done that

but all those sort of teenage battles that were sort of very quite western really in a way and she was very much the oldest but in other ways I suppose I had the confidence of being oops there we are is this the first poo of the day

Krishna? No it's not okay I mean I think you can tell because it's so tiny I'm going to call that an exclusive come on Ray Do you know we're so lucky, Krishnan, because we have dogs that do very delicate small poos. That is true.

And I've said this before, but when I've had seen Great Danes, it is literally like Greg Davis cleaning up after him or someone. I don't have that in me. Yeah, that is another reason why small dogs definitely rule. Now, if I was on my own, I would now be doing something very embarrassing. Go on. I carry wet wipes in my poo bags. So that we can clean him up afterwards. But I'll do that in a bit.

Well, no, because he might do another one. I do that with Ray. Right, yeah. Why do we do that? I don't know anyone else that does that. I always clean him up after. Well, I just don't like the idea of it not. I mean, like, you wouldn't, would you?

You wouldn't, so why should he? Making a lot of assumptions about my hygiene, Krishnan. Were you popular? Yes and no, I suppose. I mean, not, I wasn't, you know, one of the cool football boys at school, but I kind of made up for it by being into drama and debating and had my own thing going on. So I had my own sort of crowd and... Were you the sort of dead poet society? No, because I wasn't sort of, I wasn't sort of that serious.

But I suppose you just have to find your, you know, other ways to kind of... fit in and get on with your crowd. I very much had my group of friends, and they were, they straddled other groups, other crowds, which I wasn't really part of. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't the one everybody wants to be friends with. I wasn't the coolest kid in school.

But I wasn't the opposite of that either. Obviously, as you say, you had this talent for performing, which was evident from quite a young age. At one point, you auditioned for this film, Madam Susatka, didn't you? Yeah. I mean, I didn't go and find it. It kind of came and found me. I was in the Manchester Youth Theatre when I was 15.

And a casting agent went to Manchester Youth Theatre and said, do you know any young Asian actors who could play the piano and maybe roll the skate? Could you play the piano? And I could play the piano. And I didn't roll the skate, but I did skateboard. And so they put me in touch and I did a couple of screen tests and auditions and got to the last two and got very excited and thought I was going to be a movie star because it was a big film. It was huge. I remember it was Shirley MacLean.

Dame Peggy Ashcroft, Shirley MacLean, Twiggy, directed by John Schlesinger, who was, you know, famous director. And in retrospect, the film didn't actually do as well as it should have done because it didn't get a distribution deal. but it was very exciting and it didn't have a royal premiere I remember it but I didn't get the part and he did I got to the last two I think

and I met the kid who got it at that final audition which was a music audition where we had to play the piano as well and it was Naveen Chowdrey who whatever happened to him eh did you tell him then when you seen him

oh you stole my part Well, the funny thing was that he got the part and then about half a year later I got a job in telly. By the time the film came out, I was asked to interview him. So I interviewed, well, not interview him, but I sort of cover it as an opening. And so I ended up sort of having to do an item about this. And we've met over the years actually because he ended up living near me in Labrott Grove. And it's funny how our lives are sort of, our paths are sort of crossed. When that happened and you found out you didn't get the part,

what was your reaction to that? Because a lot of people would have felt very disappointed. They would take that very personally, because, you know, rejection is the hardest part of that job. How did you take it? Do you think looking back, it sounds like you're quite resilient? I didn't really take it badly because it wasn't something I had pursued. It was a bizarre thing that had come to me

where I thought, yeah, this would be absolutely amazing if it happened, but obviously these things don't happen to kids who grew up in Lancashire who were supposed to be doctors. And I was in the middle of my A-levels, and so it was just kind of, well, you know, I never believed it was really going to happen. You know, I always thought, well, that would be amazing.

But I didn't kind of take anything for granted, and I didn't really invest a huge amount of belief in it. So when it didn't happen, it was fine. And then it was bizarre that a few months after that I got my first job in TV and my life changed course anyway. There was kind of, you know, and this happens a lot in families, particularly medical families, that there's the assumption that you'll carry on in that field as well. Yes, I mean, I don't think we were ever sort of harangued into it. But it was all we, you know, we grew up with doctors as kind of my parents' only friends.

knowing about what my dad was doing and my mum was going to be a doctor, her father was a doctor, it was kind of all we knew. And we, you know, we didn't know anything about business or other professions or trades. And again, being an immigrant family, it was all about safety. So it was like it was sort of, you've got to do something that is sort of secure. You've got to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer or an accountant. And so doctorate, it kind of was until something slightly more suited to me and perhaps a little bit more exciting to me at the time came along. You applied to Oxford, didn't you? And you initially applied to do medicine, then you changed that to PPE. And was that as a result of you thinking, actually, I'd quite like to work in

telly? Yeah, I mean, I was always going to be a doctor. I'd got a place at medical school. Imagine how different your life would be now, Krishna. Yeah, bizarrely, although I'd have probably, you know, probably ended up living summer like this anyway, wouldn't I? Yeah, I mean, that's what I was going to do. And then it was the week before my A-level results that I got my job in TV. And that's when everything changed course. But for the first couple of months of doing the job, I still thought this was just a bit of fun I was going to have for a year before going to medical school and getting on with the rest of my life. And it was only after I'd done it for a little bit that I thought, actually, this is what I want to do, it's great.

So I changed my degree then from medicine to PPE. Do you know what I like about chubby chops? There's a quiet dignity. Yes. Do you know what I mean, Krishnan? No, I do. I mean, he's quite self-sufficient in some ways. Whereas Ray is a lot more needy.

Chubby chops? Do you like Raymond? What I don't understand about dogs is that they quite often just sort of coexist alongside each other. They don't really interact. Well, I've always said, It's a bit like as far as maybe stand-up comics can go with friendship with each other. Yes. In that they will coexist and they kind of respect and admire each other.

But don't steal my light. No, there's no chatting going on. I quite like a dog's friendship, though. And they don't really play. He's got some friends who live around the corner who he goes for walk with a lot. Krishna's so proud. He has got friends. But again, I mean, they don't really interact very much.

There's only one dog who is one of my best friends from childhood's dog who bizarrely shares the same birthday as him. And they actually play. Where were we? We're just talking about Oxford. And I'm interested, my dad worked for the BBC for a long time in documentaries. And there were all these guys slightly older than you that would sort of come up. And they were so fiercely intelligent.

There's a guy called Lawrence Reese, who was like head of history. And I, they all, a lot of them did PPE at Oxford. And it's interesting, isn't it? That when I hear PPE at Oxford, I think, oh my God, like your career was mapped out for you. You were so super bright and focused and driven. And yet I'm interested in you because there's also this like showbiz side to you as well. Yeah, and I sort of stumbled into PPU because I was. interested in politics, nor was. But I've never planned to do it. You know, I literally decided to do

PPE in the space of a couple of weeks. And I kind of thought it was the only job, it was the only degree I could do while holding down a job at the BBC. Because I worked all the way through university. And I thought it would be useful. Did you just, did you just get offered all those jobs? Like, you know, I mean, there weren't many very young people like me doing current affairs or youth programmes. I mean, I started off in youth TV and then I did a bit of sort of current affairs and the ethnic minority programs but essentially making serious current affairs I was going off to Kashmir and Sri Lanka and India and did you interview Benazir Bhutto? Yeah. That's incredible Krishna. I interviewed the Sri

Lankan president and Benazir Bhutto and covered the elections. How old were you? 19, 20, you know. Did it not occur to you this is really exceptional? Not really. I mean the whole thing was exceptional. The whole thing was bizarre because you know you could You know, I had no reference points for what was normal in the media. I didn't know anyone in the media. I had never imagined I would be working in the media. This was something other people did. I was just a kind of fairly normal kid from Lancashire in an immigrant family

who was expected to go off and be a doctor, suddenly finding myself doing something bizarre and fun, which gave me access to politicians and people in power and showbiz people. And it was all amazing. So I had no sense of sort of, this is really, really bizarre. I mean, now I do, because I can now see how unusual it was. But at the time, it was all just...

You must have been quite fearless, though. A lot of people would be very intimidated. Yeah. No, I think, well, I had that confidence of an 18, 19-year-old who kind of thought they could do anything, you know. What did your mom and dad say when you were doing all this? Are they proud? Or was there a sense of them thinking, yeah, okay, this is all good,

but, you know, let's get back. on track with the medicine. Yeah, I mean, they were very encouraging. But I don't think, again, anybody ever really believed it would be my life. We thought it was just something that was happening for a bit. People on TV come and go and the series would probably be asked and then it would all be over and then maybe I'd go off and get back on the road to being a doctor. So at first, it wasn't something anybody took very seriously.

It was all just a bit of fun. So it was all quite exciting. And it was only when I sort of stuck at it for a while. that I suppose they started getting slightly nervous going, well, are you really going to do this? Is there really a career in this? You know, isn't it a bit stupid? Isn't it very insecure?

There aren't really many answers to that because yes, it is insecure and a slightly crazy industry. Raymond, this one wants to smell you. It was only when I was 28 and I got the job on Channel 4 News that they stopped saying, it's not too late to be a doctor. I love them. Which they used to...

No, Chubby, we're not going that way. Did they still say that to you, Krishna? No, they... You know, all through my twenties, they would say, this is a bit stupid, isn't it? Why don't you go back to medical school? Because I bought a flat by then, and I remember my dad even sort of offering

to pay the mortgage and was going, look, don't worry, you know, we'll source it all out, but, you know, why don't you go and do a proper job? They must be so proud when they saw you on the news, though. Yes and no. I mean, my dad was very political and was really interested in it.

I mean, that's probably why we were all interested in that world as well. And so he could understand what we were excited by. Where's Chubby gone? Chubby, Chubby. So he could understand what we were getting a kick out of. And my mum could understand as well in terms of performance and showbiz and being on TV and all that kind of thing. So, you know, they understood, but I never really got the sense they were particularly

proud until later on. I think when I was doing sort of more serious stuff and they would get more and more people talking to them about what we were doing or what I was doing, I think that's when they thought, yeah, I mean, it is pretty good what he does. I get the sense, if you'll forgive me for being so personal, that you were raised in quite, a functional home, like emotionally functional, because you don't seem, there's kind of nothing needy about your energy. Do you know what I mean? That some performers do have that, inevitably, is what draws some performers to that industry. And some people are looking to fill a hole,

and I don't get that sense with you. Why do you think that is? Why are you so normal, Christian? Why is your damage? I'm not sure. Well, I'm not sure. Well, I'm not. I was always so normal. I mean, I think I could have gone the other way and could have been more showboos. I mean, you know, when I was in children's TV and then doing Saturday night TV on the lottery on BBC One and all that kind of stuff. It was really good fun and I enjoyed it. And I suppose had I been an actor, I could have gone down that road of a different kind of approach to life. But journalism is so grounding, really, in all sorts of ways because you're spending a lot of time with people who are a lot less fortunate. than you all over the world.

So, you know, you can't really be a wanker. You know, because, you know, you're really seeing the bad side of life a lot of the time. Well, I suppose you could, though. You could say I'm going to be an old school remote anchor who's entirely studio-based and has a team of PAs and makeup artists and whatever. And I'm not going to do any on the road stuff. I'm not leaving the studio. Yeah.

You've chosen not to do that. and stay quite hands-on. I mean, I never had a time where I was just in the studio. I've always spent time out on the road as well, reporting and doing proper journalism, if you like. And I've just been lucky in that all the jobs that I've done and all the programs I've worked on demanded that. You know, news round, which was the great training ground for me

when I was a student, but where I sort of first did, I suppose, really big news stories. was set up that way as well, you know, with two presenters, and one would present and the other would report. And then you would swap over the next week. I'm still reeling from when I was a student, my student job presenting news round. I went to Australia, Krishna, okay?

So, and then, you know, and Channel 4 News was the same. So I've always kind of had that thing of sort of, you know, to be honest, being a full-time studio-based presenter is so boring. But being a full-time correspondent is really, really demanding and disastrous for your family life and very, very hard. And so, yeah, I'm very lucky that I kind of get to do a little bit of both. My dad said to me, because he worked in TV, I don't mind who you end up with as long as it's not a foreign correspondent.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, they were all on their fifth marriage. As you say, you joined Channel 4 News. Was it 98? Yes. What was your working relationship with John Snow like originally? Because were you thinking, okay, this guy's a bit of a legend? I mean, yes, it's hard to remember back, to be honest, because we were there a long time and our relationship changed over the years, obviously.

But I think when I first went, you know, I really admired Channel 4 News. Yeah. And, you know, I admired the way Channel 4 News was very much out there and that you would see John out on the road, you know, war zones and disasters. What's that, Krishna? Geese, honking geese. They're so big, aren't they? They are. They're huge. Do you ever get worried about birds attacking cubby? Not normally, but last week, it was my 20th anniversary and Lisa and I went to a country house hotel and we took him for a walk in the garden and there was a group of people doing one of those falconry

displays. And we were all thinking, I'm not sure about this. And then And as we walked there, this bird started flying towards us. And I started thinking, is he about to swoop? And we were kind of ready to sort of grab him. And it didn't. It turned around and went back. But then one of the people from the school came over and went, we've got some big birds here.

I think this is not the place for a dog that size. But generally, no. I mean, that's the only time. And bizarrely cats represented more of a threat to him than birds. Oh, baby, look at chubby. He's been attacked a couple of times by Katz. Chalb's, where are you going? Did a TV executive say to you once,

you have to decide who you want to be? Do you want to be Bruce Volscyth? Or Jeremy Paxman, yes. I had a very bizarre six months where I was presenting the National Lottery Live show on BBC One with Anthea Turner. You know, prime time, massive audiences. At the same time as working on news nights.

So I would do two or three days a week on news news. night and then sort of one and a half two days a week on the lottery show and it was a very odd time I mean I was having a great time because I loved not being pigeonholed but yeah the head of news called me in and sort of said take a decision what's it going to be you can't do both really and you chose news yeah and I can't because I just felt well news is what I'm really good at and I can probably get to the top of this tree but I won't get to the top of entertainment because I could see that there were people who were just much better at it than me. I really hope you loved part one of this week's Walking the Dog.

If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.