Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Larry and George Lamb

Episode Date: October 12, 2017

Emily goes out for a walk on Hampstead Heath with her Shih-Tzu puppy Raymond and guests Larry Lamb and his son George Lamb. They talk about the secret to being a good dad, the power of therapy, Jeremy Corbyn, what it feels like when you're told you're handsome, and George's secret message to Larry when he was in I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ray's actually, he just decided to lie down. He just thinks it looks like we're in long grass, we should say. And I think Ray thinks this looks like a really nice comfy bag. On walking the dog this week, I went out with actor Larry Lamb and his son George Lamb for a stroll on Hampstead He. The lambs are dogless, so he took out Raymond, my Shih Tzu, or my right little Shih Tzu, as I've started to call him, who regular listeners might actually be familiar with. It was a really beautiful sunny autumn day.

The lambs had such a lovely father and sun dynamic. I sort of wanted them to adopt me. I suggested it, and it went very quiet. You might call it the silence of the lambs. Yes, I got that in. You can catch their show Britain by Bike on Channel 5 right now. It's two gorgeous lambs on tour.

What more could you want? Owen, can you please remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes because you'll make a crazy dog lady really happy. Leave your bag. Leave your bag. Do you think so, Larry? I think he's looking for funny.

Right, we're nearly ready. So we've got Ray, I've got the poo bags. I've got the treats. You've got the treats. What about Larry Lamb? What's he got? He's got a little bit of life in him and if we get going soon he might not fall asleep on the way. Are you going to take Ray, George? What's he called Ray? Raymond.

Yes, Raymond. I wanted like an old man's name. Glad you wore your box fresh trainers for the Walker in the Heath. I don't have any other thoughts, George, obviously. Might we swap sides? And that can get my good ear to you. Oh yeah, okay, good. So shall I go in the middle?

You go in the middle. Ham sandwich. And I don't know how to root my. The proverbial lamb. We know the way. This is home turf. I walk this every weekend twice. Did you, Larry?

I should introduce this. I should say this is walking the dog. I'm Emily Dean. I'm here with Larry Lamb. Renaissance man. And I'm going to go national treasure. National treasure. Well, there you go.

That's a bit of a sort of a... Take it, mate. Just take it. Take it. Be happy of it. You haven't heard yours yet. No. I like the Renaissance man.

that's good. I think he is. Yeah, so do I. And then we've got George Lamb, your son. Yeah, it's son of. Yeah. Lamb the younger. Fabulous presenter, broadcaster, DJ, best dressed man in Britain. Once, I tell you, it's a struggle to try and hit those heights again. Well, I'm going to call George the people's George Clooney. I'll take it. Do you like that? Yeah, absolutely. Happy with that, Larry? Yeah, exactly. I thought the other George Clooney was the people's George Clooney. He certainly got most of them after him, aren't they?

I did the BAFTAs once. I was doing the red carpet. And there's these guys called Heckler Spray. Oh, yeah. And they used to do, so they do like a commentary over the top of actually what was going on. And I was the people's Robert Patterson. That was it.

But I'm happy to grow into the people's George Clooney. I love that. So we're here with my dog Raymond because the lambs are dogless. And is there a reason for that? Yeah, I would never allow him a dog. Why not, Larry? People don't like them.

Come on, man. Larry! You just killed Santa? No, I didn't. You're not a dog fan. No, no, I've lived with dogs a lot in the past. And I suppose, I'm not somebody that has to have a dog living with them. That's it.

So I can live with them, I can live without them. I've lived with them and I can live without them. How about that? That's it. Your game's a good game. At the moment, I don't live with them. Raymond just stops walking. Raymond, yeah, he does sometimes.

He gets a bit frightened. Okay, come. It's all right, Ray, come on. Oh, actually, George, have you got the treats? Yes. If you hold out a treat for him? Yeah. Let's get Dad to hold out a treat for him, Dad.

I think this is probably a thing, I remember Connie when she had her little Shih Tzu next door. She's forever stopping in the park, walking around here. Well, they are. Give the Shih Tzu the treat. Here you go. Look. Look. Hang on, I want to get it on film, mate.

Hang on. It's a little doggy treat. You like that. Here he is. Animal lover, Larry Lamb. You can give it to it. Yes, Raymond, take it. Go on, mate.

Yeah, you're right. Shih Tzu's do have that Mariah Carey tendency. Well, they're just like, right, that's it. They get very showbiz. Yeah. And so, George, you never had a dog. I do. My step-mom had dogs when I was growing up,

I was growing up so I had two I'm going to do you know what I'm think I'm going to carry him yeah really that's what Connie had to do in the end they got a push chair with a little seat in it they used to wheel the dog round wheel the dog round the park yeah that's going to be me soon yeah there you go come on Raymond no one will think I'm the mad lady of Hampst there's plenty of them around here and yeah I had dogs when I was a kid yeah and then I briefly I got a dog called Charlie Murphy who was lovely yeah but he was he was a spring of spaniel and We lived in London. And he was a she as well.

And he was a she, yeah, he was a she, yeah, that's true. And you call him Charlie? He's a dog lover, don't forget. Am I, you right? Yeah, the dog called Charlie Murphy that was a girl and he's forgotten. I used to tell my mum off all the time for calling it a he, and now I've turned into my mum, that's wicked. Charlie Murphy's alive and well, but she lives back on the farm

where she came from because basically I was doing an hour a day, walk with her, the dog walker was doing two hours. and my flatmate was doing an hour and it still wasn't enough for her so no it's a thing it's a big commitment isn't it yeah I think that's one of the things that deters me really I mean I sort of basically like them but you can't it's bad enough in having kids and having to devote your life to looking after looking after kids oh the old truth serum's kicking in looking after kids is enough I always think so I grew up in a slightly theatrical showbiz background did you yeah and I sort of tend to think it's It's a bit, the suitcase in the hall, I always called my background. Like travelling people. You can't take on anything else, right? Yeah.

You can't take anything else on, right? You start talking to families like that and a dog. Oh, look, hang on a minute. Okay, so we're going off here for three weeks. What are we going to do with a dog? We'll spend all the money we're going to earn, putting it in a kennels. Well, my mum would always say things like that. She was like, well, we can't get a dog.

I mean, and what if Trevor Nunn calls? And my sister would say Trevor Nunn's not going to call. And then they had a row, right? Why not? What's your mama turn? Yeah. What's her name? Yeah.

We'll talk about this later. This is your podcast, Larry. That's all right. This is your moment. So I want to, I'm really fascinated by you two. Like, majorly fascinated. Because I think you've got such a lovely relationship. And I want to know how you manage it.

And I know you've talked before about how George you've, you know, it's been quite a conscious thing, hasn't it? Well, his mum stopped me bullying him. I was bullied and dominated by my father, who was an interesting, intelligent, some ways fascinating man, but he had no idea how to father, because he'd been mishandled by a father who'd probably been mishandled by a father. And I met George's mum and fell madly in love with her. And about a year and a half after we met, George was born.

And we stayed together for about three years, but there was this horrendous... I was exhibiting bullying behaviour in the park one day. And she just pulled me and she said, look, if you want to repeat performance of what you've got with your dad, that's the way to do it. And I just stopped dead. Because from that moment on, it was completely honest. And because with kids, they only get honesty. If you're in any way dishonest with them, everything's cast.

everything's cast into doubt. This person that loves them is being nasty to them, something's wrong. They can't understand it. And so I'd been brought up literally in a war zone with these two people that were my parents, going at each other from the day I was conceived. And I sort of thought, OK, I don't want this for him.

So I better stop. And so, you know, 30-odd years down the line, we have this extraordinary relationship. It's so lovely. I know. And what was your experience of that, George? Like growing up was your dad, did you always think of your dad as like a cool dad, like one of the cool dads? Like, you know, I, like all little boys, I kind of, you know, worshipped my dad and looked up to this man and thought he was Superman.

But he met Superman and realised I wasn't. Well, it wasn't Larry in Superman. Yeah, but he wasn't Superman in Superman. Exactly. That was it. He didn't even get to wear the suit. He didn't know Superman. I was born in the same.

hospital with Superman's son that's how dad got the job really yeah something like that no well the third one yeah the third one yeah he's met someone everyone it's a big moment right oh yeah snowdell yeah oh schnoodle yeah yeah yeah of my dad like everybody else and saw him as this big you know kind of amazing superhero character and you know dad was traveling a lot when i was young and he was around We spent time together and we did lots of cool stuff, but my mum was the one who was doing all the disciplining. Was she? Was she the disciplinarian then? Yeah, she's Scottish and she's hardcore.

And she instilled a lot of, you know, a lot of the values that make George the interesting and likable character that he is because she's a, you know, she's a very, very powerful influence on anybody. And that's what I wasn't. I was sort of like this kind of big old dad. But she was really the backbone of the thing, you know, even though we weren't together. And you two sound like you've kept a nice relationship. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. When I was, I went off to school from like 11 to 16. And then when I came back, I came back to live with dad for a couple of years. Yeah. And that was a really, because that was the first, you know, me coming back as a, you know, on my way to being an adult. And so the dynamic changes completely. You know, I was adamant. I was going to come back to London.

I'd had enough of being away. And, you know, just started to get interested in clubbing and, you know, wanting to go out and that kind of thing. Or you can see it on the horizon anyway. And I knew mum would have just, you know, mum was going to try and be on lockdown and dad would let me have a bit of a kind of free pass. Well, you're smart.

You'd worked out what was going to work best for you in that scenario. And we, every Friday, I'd have a, I'd have a, Friday's off from like 11 and I'd come back and just hang with Dad all day. Really? Because he wasn't working like he did with having a bad patch at work. When was that? So that was pre-Gavin and Stacey and EastEnders. Pre what I'm calling Larry Lamb 2.0. Exactly.

There you go. Which was the resurgence. Well, there was a point with Dad hit 50 for all actors, you know, at 50. Well, men anyway, I'm sure women, it happens much earlier. But, you know, at 50, you kind of everybody gets knocked down the pecking order a bit, you know, because the parts aren't there for you. So, you know, if you were playing the leading role, now you're playing the dad.

If you were playing the dad, you're now playing the uncle, you know, and down it goes. And then at the same time, the reality TV thing kicked off. And so all the budgets for drama, went out of drama and went into reality TV. And so there was no work around, you know. And that for me, actually, was the kind of, like the bit where I realized that dad was just a guy, you know?

Really? Yeah. And he, you know, I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, you know, he had, like most, like a lot of men going through that whole thing, you know, like he had a bit of a breakdown. And I remember, like, I remember Dad lying in bed being, like, you know, in tears and me lying next to him, like, you know, holding this great big guy who was my hero and kind of, and he lost loads of weight and just kind of holding him and thinking like, shit, he's just a dude, like he's just a bloke and he's doing his best. you know, and... But then that's amazing that I think your dad was able to be vulnerable with you. Absolutely.

And you know what your dad was saying earlier, what I was saying earlier about, that honesty with children and being honest all the time, whether it's, I've met a new partner. Do you know what I mean? Whether or not I'm not going to be with your mum, just tell them the truth.

Because they don't cope with it. There's so many people get them tied up in knots telling lies. Yeah. Children basically will cope with everything as long as it's not dividing their lawyers. If somebody's dead, they'll deal with the reality.

They won't like it, right? But don't get them involved in a situation where they're defending mum and dad, right? Well, you had that when your mum left, didn't you? Yeah. Because your dad slightly turned you against your mum. Yeah. Or try to, anyway, yeah. And so, you know, what came out of his mum and I living apart

was a situation where implicit in the arrangement was, was no slagging off. I like that. Larry's made it so much seven. Yeah, no slagging off. Which must have been quite difficult for my mum. Because what they said is the therapist of it. No, there's the rules. Yeah, my rules, no slagging off. No slagging off. He had a big route. It was always on the phone. He never... You and George's mum? Yep. He was never exposed to rucks at all. So he was, he wasn't around. Larry's picking up a face, George. Come on, me and you and rain.

So I... You can't walk to us as a dog really isn't amming. it. So that really is what happened. We just didn't, we had our fights and there were a lot of them, but we did them out of the way of him. And we never, ever started each running the other one down, you know? I was always, Daddy, if Daddy was on the phone, his daddy's on the phone, not that bastard father of yours on the phone, none of that was going on. Yeah. And the same thing with me vis-à-vis her. It was always Mama, you know? Well, Jimmy Carr has a thing. He always says you've got to, in relationships, whether you stay together or you split up or whatever, you have to keep your side of the street

clean. Yeah, you better believe it. The relationship, it might stop, you know, you might not be living together anymore, but you are linked through that child forever. That's it. Like it or lump it, and all these poor souls that get involved with these great battles, and what they don't, they just don't seem to understand, all you need to do, do is hoist the flag of truce, go and sit in a cupboard somewhere and discuss the terms of the truth, put a show on for the kids and the kids will buy it, hook line and sinker. Yeah, of course they will. Because they want to.

Yeah, exactly. And it suits everyone and you know, and you'll have a much more peaceful life as you get older. Ray's a very small dog. He needs to go very slowly. This needs to become more of an amboy. Well, we need to talk about this because the reason that Larry Lime is charging ahead is because he's Britain's healthiest most active man, currently. Would you say that's true? He's definitely...

You're 70, Larry. He's got to be in the top kind of 10 percentile for active 70-year-olds, for sure. But it's incredible. And you work out every day, don't you? I do some exercises every day. I'd hardly call it a workout. What about you, George?

How old are you now if it's on a rude question? I'm 38 in December. Okay. And I was... always until I'd say probably about two years ago I was always pretty you know athletic and fit and on it and I fell out of love with running a couple of years ago and that was kind of tough and I also I was a kickboxer for years and I kind of got a bit carried away and started going into competitions and having fights and doing all sorts

of stuff and I got quite badly hurt and found myself a little bit out of my depth in one in the last one and that's kind of like soured that whole thing so simultaneously the two things that kept me really active kind of stopped and i so yeah so i'm trying to figure out what the next move is i've been doing yoga quite a lot recently well i've got another tip which is get a dog yeah because honestly this why i like walking the dog is because i'm not plugging my show here but i like doing it because it forces me to get out of the house like it's good for your mental health as well have to go in the morning have to go in the evening have to do a larry lamb high Larry's taking it.

Look at Larry go. And we should say, I don't even know if I said we're in Kenwood, which is kind of your manner, really. We're in the heat now. In the heat, aren't we? Yeah. And you guys just did this show, which is out, coming out very soon. Yeah.

It's called Britain by bike. By bike. It's on every Friday night. It's on Channel 5. Yeah. And we went off around. So Dad turned 70. We turned 70 on Sunday.

Congratulations, Larry. Thank you. Did this rate your party? Well, we had a bit of a party on loose women today. Are you two on that loose women? You're on it all the time. I know, it's such a good vibe. Do you like doing it?

I think it's Dad's natural habitat. And so, yeah, so we went off around four national parks. We were trying to think of what to do for Dad's 70th. For his 60th, we went to the Himalayas and went walking. Wow. And in the foothills of the Himalayas, which was just incredible. and if you, not if you, you, you, if you can make the time to go and visit the Himalayas because it's really magical.

It's incredible, isn't it? And I think when you see mountains that are 8,000 metres high, it really gives you some perspective on quite how inconsequential we are in the big scheme of things. He's enjoying it, I think. He likes it, but it's just quite tough for him. I know, but it's good for him. Imagine the pace he's going. Just for the record, guys, at best, Ray is like,

nine inches top of head to ground, you know, probably the best. Probably about, not much more than nine inches head to tail. Yeah. Yeah. He weighs like what kind of. Scale wise, I reckon he's like one 50th of me. And weight wise, he's like he's a Kardashian bottom, I think. Right. Okay.

Not even. Not even. He's a cheek. He's one Kardashian cheek. He's on, it's kind of like Jurassic Park with him running between your legs. Yeah. It's like that scene where the big dinosaurs and their feet go boom, boom, boom, on the floor.

This is lovely for him. Yeah, so anyway, so you went to... We went to Lachlomen and the Trossacks. We went to the Yorkshire Dales. Hey, you went with sheep dogs as well, which I saw. We went, we went and trained this. We went to meet a sheep dog trainer called Sean. And we trained, we trained the sheep dog.

And then we took us to market the next day and sold her. And it was, um, oh, we've got some dogs coming up here, guys. It was amazing. It was, the best bit of the whole trip was going and meeting and meeting. and dad's just having off road. I know he's going to get. Larry Lime is stopping

to get some water from the fountain. That's a good picture. Can you hear it? Animal. The producer just got the sound effect of Larry. So you had the sheep dogs? That was in Yorkshire.

In Yorkshire. But just hanging out with all these people so often you go to places, you have a little bit of chit chat in the cafe or whatever. But really, really, how far do you immerse yourselves in other cultures and other, you know, that aren't the other side of the world?

you know and the answer for me anyway is very little and actually you know the luxury of this job is we got to go out and hang for a day with lobster fishermen we got to go and work sheepdogs for a day with a sheep dog trainer we got to you know what do we do we ride up a mountain with a with a professional cyclist yeah we went we went and drove a great big steamer on the lock kill foil and you had an electric bike you did yeah yeah I did a normal boy yeah I was very lucky they said to me rather embarrassed they were. Would you consider riding an electric bike? I said I would consider that an absolute treat. But how nice for you guys to be able to do that and work

together? Yeah. Yeah. And is that happening because I was going to say actually Larry your career resurgence with these vendors and with Gavin and Stacey did it sort of coincide in a way with when George was starting to get a lot of work on TV and well George George, it sort of coincided with George. What was going on was George was doing lots of work. And I suddenly started to do things that weren't acting. There were all sorts of people were very interested in putting us together. The problem was we were running two different schedules.

We weren't essentially a team at that point. So we missed out on a few things. We did one thing that didn't work out quite as well as it might have. And then, of course, we've... But how nice it used to have. run into your son in green rooms and say oh should you know the kerpo dad literally that's how it was it was weird i'd turn up at a award ceremony and and yeah because at that point he was still kind of half living in france a little bit so we weren't you know

living in each other's pockets and uh literally i'd turn up at things and be like oh this my dad cool dad you know between us we know a lot for a lot of people yeah and do you look at george now larry and feel quite proud very proud in terms of in terms of in terms of of his overall take on the world in terms of the person he is, you know, what he does for a living as far as Humpherson is not exactly the most important criteria. It's who he is in the world, you know. Well also, I know, because George, you had a bit of a, I'm not going to say a midlife crisis. It was pre-mid. It was pre-mid, wasn't it? It was existential, existential crisis. You had a moment, didn't you, a few years back? Yeah. And what happened there?

I'd been, you know, I'd been like happily, I bought into the whole, you know, brought into the whole game and I, you know, and I'd worked pretty hard and I'd taken all the opportunities that'd been afforded me and done pretty well quite early on in my life. You know, we all kind of, you know, we all set out and we chase the same things, these kind of these kind of, I know, whatever they are, like perceived wants, basically. Yeah. And I chased after them and I got them. But, you know, I was doing what most young men did, certainly of my generation, which was run after, you know, power and money and, you know, perceived success. And then I got it, maybe not to the nth degree, but, you know, I had all the trappings you get with, you know, kind of fame and fortune and all the rest of it.

So I had a nice, you know, big house and a flash car and, you know, like adoring, you know, fans or whatever. And, like, and it just wasn't making me happy. I got all this stuff and that bit where you kind of you think when I get to X I'll be happy and I got to X and I wasn't happy

and I remember ringing Dad and just been like Dad I don't know what's going on I've done kind of what I was meant to do I've got all this stuff and why weren't you happy? Well because I didn't there was no real purpose

you know and I think if you don't have purpose then the whole thing's pointless you know it's absolutely the job I do is great and it's really what a lucky thing to do the job that I do but if it doesn't have any purpose and there's no direction to it

and it's not kind of leading to anything and you're basically just kind of getting caught up in this cycle of kind of fame. Going up here, Larry. And Larry, what did you think when George said that to you? What was your response? Well, the difference between George's upbringing and mine in terms of gradual development was when I left Britain, age 20, almost 21. Was this when you went to Canada?

When I went to Germany. Well, when I went to Germany, yeah. Well, when I went to Germany, I went to Germany to be an encyclopedia salesman. And I was, A, looking for an adventure, but B, most importantly, looking for a life. You know, I had no life. I was just a sort of character that had evolved from this warlike state that I'd been raised in. And I thought, okay, there's got to be something better than this. going on. This is not doing it for me and I remember to get out to Germany I'd

been hired and they said well you can drive out and we'll buy your ticket I thought I don't want to take my car out there I'm gonna leave it here and I'll chance me luck and I bought a ticket and a plane ticket to fly to Frankfurt I'd never had never been on a proper aeroplane before and I got on that plane I sat on that plane I sat on here and as it took off, I thought, right, goodbye, you're out of there. Yeah. And that is it. I'm not having anything to do with any of that nonsense ever again.

Right. And it took me, you know, nine going ten years to come back. And I only came back because I'd become an actor. And somebody said to me, well, you know, being an English actor in New York is all right. If you're here and you've already had a big, you're already discovered. but you're trying to make your way, it's not the same. And they just said, look, I think it would be a very, it was Jeremy Brett, who I was working with.

And he said to me, he said, you know, you would work in England. He said, here, you're going to struggle. And that was it. I literally, I went down the road, I bought a ticket. I flew back. I arrived back here. I'd never, as I say, no intention of ever doing that. I remember getting on the top of a, you could, back in those days,

you could get a double deck of red bus from the airport. into the West London Air Eritorm and lost the road. Yeah. And I sat up on the front of that bus like I was a tourist in my own country, you know? Yeah. Just watching it all. I went away and I came back on my own terms.

That's what happened. And George's done his thing a different way. But the key thing is there was nobody. Nobody really even knew where I was. I was gone. I would have occasional correspondence with my mum. my dad but that was it and certainly absolutely nobody having anything to do with my life or how it ran or what i was doing in it whereas george has always had these two overbearing bossy parents

breathing down his neck but not dominant since the since the day since the day he was born that's the difference yeah but on a on a positive note but then you do you do You know, do you think as a parent, if you, the intention is to give your kids roots and wings, do you look at George and think you've done that? Yeah. Well, between his mum and I, I do. I think with George, talking about you like you're not here, it's like a school interview. I'm a couple of steps behind.

I know you are. I know. Kind of like dog porter. Like a surrendered wife following us. Yeah. But I read something. I think it was a TV controller. Hello.

Hello? Oh, hello gorgeous. This is a nice, this is a Labrador retriever. Lovely. Lovely. Oh, absolutely beautiful. Do you want to say hello? There's a whipet and I think it's a great wippets, is it?

Italian great, Italian. Oh, beautiful. Oh, beautiful. That's Barack Obama's dog, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, not his actual dog. I'm not suggesting you've stolen it. But yeah, I was saying about George, I think you're someone who,

someone who, and I read this, I think it was a controller or someone said about you, like you own a room. So you have a lot of presents. Because people talk about your looks a lot. You know, when I say, oh, I'm seeing George and Larry Lamb and, you know, there's a lot of fan waving at Larry and then oh, Larry Lamb, and then you get the same about George. But I think sometimes if I were you, George, I think, does that get a bit irritating sometimes? There's more to me than fan waving. fan waving. But do you think, does that genuinely sometimes annoy you? Or do you like it?

The female attention? I think the downsides of, you know, being, you know, reasonably good looking are far, far tinier than the upsides, basically. You know, like life's not that difficult if you're handsome, you know? So they tell us. Yeah. Well, you know, we're doing all right. We're out in a park with a beautiful lady, being interviewed, you know.

Exactly. In the middle of the afternoon, not having been at work any time recently. What did you do today? I went on the telly. Oh, did you? Yeah, and I came home and I did a radio interview. God, it was hard. So you don't get that sense, although having said that,

if it was a woman that someone was saying, oh yeah, George Lammy's really good looking, that would be seen as reductive, wouldn't it, somehow? That would be seen as inappropriate and rude, but I like that you own that, though, that you say, yeah, well, I'm handsome. Yeah, but like, whatever, you have to know what you're good. Like, I feel like finally, as I'm getting nearly 40, I know what I'm good at. Like, I know what I'm good at in life, in business, in relationships.

And what is that? I think it's hard to accept as well that people find you handsome. Do you know what I mean? Why, Larry? What is you getting on it? Yeah, well, I think they, you know, I mean, for you, I'm talking about you. Like, when I was a kid, God almighty, talk about ugly duck then. George wasn't an ugly duckling though, was he?

He went through teenage pudding on the face, you know what I mean? Teenage face pudding. But I certainly wasn't... The difference between George and me is that George's mum is a stunner. Yeah, well, I can only imagine. Well, you know, it's not very nice about your poor, your mum, is it? My mum was good looking, right? But your mum was a stunner.

Yeah. mum's dead and yours isn't yeah keep it like mate but you know what's interesting so Larry I had an incident which I think you'll enjoy when I first met George about was it about five six years ago George probably yeah and we were in a private members club in London London's glitter in London yeah and we just got sat at a table together quite randomly and I do a radio show with Frank Skinner and George listened to it and we just were chatting and we really got on And the guy I'd gone there with reacted really strangely because George and I were chatting.

I should say in a completely platonic, just friendly way. I'm a fan of your radio show. We just got on. It was nothing, sort of, no funny business. Such a shame that people think that it has to all be funny business. Ray's actually just decided to lie down. He just thinks it looks like we're in long grass, we should say. And I think Ray thinks this looks like a really nice comfy bed.

Well, I think he thinks he's met somebody that's got longer hair than he has. He's just... very big. Ray's met someone. Anyway, do carry on to... Yeah, so anyway, you might have to pick him up, George. I'm sorry, if you don't mind. I think he's just tired.

He's had enough. So, Larry, yeah, this guy, when I left, I said to George, look, I'm going now. And he said, oh, yeah, we should have a coffee or, again, in a completely innocent, nice way. And it suddenly occurred to me that men are quite intimidated by George. Do you notice that? Well, you know, if you're six or five, you tend to be quite intimidating anyway. and you're six foot five and you kind of look like a Greek god, then people aren't just intimidated, but a lot of men start getting,

I think the expression is jealous. Well, they get jealous. So me and my friend, sorry, Larry, had this thing we worked out, which is George once called me and I had, I think, I can't remember, it was where I was working. And I said, oh, I must ring him back and I had missed call, George Lamb, it said, on the screen. So my friend said, take a screenshot of that and put that as your screenings. so that if any man is ever messing you around, you just put your phone on the table and it says

one missed call, George Lamb. Very good. That's very good. And we decided we were going to send it as a service out to women whose partners are treating them badly, the one missed call from George Lamb screenshot. What do you think, Larry? Yeah, well, what you could work the best way to do it really is put four missed calls from George Lamb.

That's much better. In fact, let's sort that out today. I'm going to market it. It's going to make us all. a lot of money. Yeah. It's brilliant. Larry, I really loved your book as well. Thank you. I read your book. Thank you. And I loved it because I thought you were really honest. And I think it's hard, as you were saying earlier, to be vulnerable sometimes about things that have happened to you. But it was, some of the stories really made me quite sad and I found it really

moving. There was a story about your mum with this teapot and I can't go out of my head where your dad. eye open eye he basically pulled a teapot on her head yeah well they're the sort of stunts victorian men pulled yeah you know you wanted to make you like you wanted to pull us pull a sort of tantrum just get a you know a victorian man to show you know particularly working class probably the middle classes or the upper class was just as good yeah but boy you had you had plenty of training for it yeah my my grandfather his father was this really belligerent man who was he was less than five foot tall. I was taller than him when I was 11 and he was a drinker, he was a beer drinker and he'd been known like in a real, a real like high bait, high, real

anger trip to pull every moving thing down out of the living room and throw it all on the fire, all of it, curtains, anything, ornaments, clock, whatever there was, throw it all on the fire, that sort of thing, right? You know, you're going to make a statement, mate. You want to make statements? Watch this, right? That was the attitude. I am the boss and I will do whatever I want to do

to make sure you understand you mean nothing. Bullion. I mean real bullying. And he did it. You know, that's what he did. And that's what my father was brought up with. But that's what's interesting is patterns, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

You know that Philip Larkin quote? I really like which is that man hands down misery to man whatever yeah and you think actually what you've done perhaps is stop that you know what I mean that's quite an amazing achievement his mum stopped it George's mum his mum his mum's if she hadn't said what she said on that day yeah I'm sure it had trampled on through and ruined everything and we would not be here having this interview today I'm absolutely convinced do you ever feel you know we try so hard don't we we know those patterns from our parents do you ever feel it in you sometimes do you ever think oh that's my old man inside me i can feel it i spent a long long time going to an amazing old shrink

and uh and talking all of that through that home that whole father thing do you like do you think therapy's good what were you going to say george i was going to say uh there's definitely like everybody there's a lot of dad's dad coming through him you know when he went in the job jungle, we had to write a letter to, you know, the loved one gets to write a letter in. And I was trying to use code to say that I had seen a lot of, and the character in Gavin and Stacey is called Mick Shipman. Yeah. And I was like, and his dad was called Ron. I was like, I've seen loads of Ron, which was a big surprise. I didn't, I didn't expect to see him, hoping I'll bump into Mick soon and, yeah, mix are better, you know, mix, mix a bunch of guy. And he didn't get it.

You don't get it, Larry? No, because it was mixing up codes, right? If he'd have said, I've seen a lot of Mick, I haven't seen enough of Mick and I've seen too much of Archie, I'd have got it immediately. Because Archie was your Eastender's character. He was mixing them up. My fault.

Right. Because afterwards when he explained to me, I thought, how do I know? And that's what it was, just obviously on the... That's amazing that you did that, though, George, that you were thinking... I tried to not let my dad to have a meltdown. I'm in public on television, yeah. No, because I think that took guts, though. No, but that is actually to have that relationship.

Yeah. Where you could sort of run the risk of him saying, what the hell were you doing that for? You should have just been sending me a message saying, brilliant. Yeah, but that's not, I mean, you know, we're not here just to pat each other on the back. You're here to keep each other in check. See, that's what he gets from his mum. Get the best out of each other.

You know, he gets that from his mum. My job is not to be there to tell people they're great all the time or everything's perfect. all the time. Just as yours isn't, if we're going to have a friendship, a relationship, whatever, you know. Yeah, so that's interesting. And did you feel, Larry, when you came out of the jungle, because I remember seeing you with that canoe moment,

and I thought, wow, this is incredible. But did you feel, do you come out and did you just feel, it's hard, though, doing that, isn't it? It's wonderful. Did you love it? It's one of the most important things I think I've ever done. Really? Yep.

Why? We went to see a film made by Bruce Parry the other night. which is basically making us understand where we've all come from, where some people have managed to stay and have a wonderful life with nothing that we feel we have to have. Yeah. Right? You have no phone, you have no internet, you have no books, you have no means of writing,

you have no means of reading, you have nothing at all that interrupts just the general life that you have. You have a minimum of food, right, which you have to share with everybody. else and the effort of getting the food is a communal thing, okay? That's basically returning to that. What they do is they mix it up with those stunts, which turn it into a competition, but you need that competition to earn the food. So you've got a bit of a mix up in there, but as I watched the film, I thought,

watching those people sitting around touching each other for no other reason than they were close and sitting in that jungle there with those boys sitting with our arms round each other just like literally cuddling each other just for no other reason that we were close and there was nothing else to think about yeah I was never bored ever once bored ever never hungry right it was an extraordinary thing to go through really yeah would you recommend would you do it George? Dad's a big advocate of it. This is never say never. I'd quite like to go and live in the jungle. I'd like to go maybe live in a camp and you know try that life so I'm not necessarily sure I want to

do it on television. Yeah I'm also you know I'm all for facing my fears and all the rest of it but I'm not like wild about like creepy crawlies and all the rest of it. Yeah but that's what people worry about too much you know it's like the thing the thing you have to remember which is what I twigs straight away there is no way that anything that's going to be very dangerous is going to be allowed in the frame because it's telly right forget it forget it i think also it's different when you're a 70-year-old guy yes yeah you know naturally all the stuff you know everything starts to slow down and you start to you know kind of worry that you're not as confident as you used to be and literally as we say this a load of

young boys come running over like cascading over the hill yes boys and uh doing cross country and I think it was a really amazing challenge for dad to go and do all of that stuff you know to go and push himself and he came back you know he literally left and we were weeping saying like my dad my don't let him I was I remember the last thing I said was don't let him do anything you don't want to do and then and then he came back and he was like a different man he lost about 10 years I think so George your dad had therapy just have you you had therapy? Lots. Have you? Yeah, lots, lots. What do you think of it? I think it should be mandatory for kids growing up. I think it's absolutely, absolutely crazy that, you know, they

teach us all of this stuff in school, much of, most of which is, you know, a lot of which is very important, but they teach you absolutely nothing about how your mind works and how your how your spirit works and I think that's really sad because you know we then you know you fill these kids up with loads of knowledge that's supposedly the important stuff and you push them out into the world and of course you know the world's a big bad tough place and there's it's full of complexities and it becomes tough and then you don't actually have the toolkit there to deal with it you know and I think it's really sad that there's a huge stigma around it and I think it's really sad it's really expensive as well but I think it's great that you got to

are saying this because I think if more men admit to it you know I think women are much more will readily say I'm in therapy you know whereas in my experience I've often had particularly doing this show actually sometimes men will say oh well isn't that just where you blame other people all the time for what happened to you and I and I always say no that's the opposite of therapy it's taking responsibility for your own impulses and and making sure that you don't continue patterns like we were talking about you know I spent my whole life, continue, you know, doing like so many people, just do the same thing over and over and over and over.

And then you're doing, repeating stuff that your dad's done, that his is a repetition of somebody else's stuff. So now I'm repeating third-hand stuff and it just seems crazy to me. You know, and I was very lucky that I'd, you know, made enough money that I could go and, you know, I went three days a week for six months. And, and it was wicked. It was the best, it's the best thing I've ever done. Really? Yeah, totally. And being onto yourself, you know, you start seeing the same patterns re-emerging the same thing happening yeah and now having the tools to be like oh all right i see what's happening here well that's the thing you catch yourself don't you yeah you sort of thing you know oh we're getting right back up to the house now we're

getting back up to kenwood ray you're going to walk again now on the home stretch Raymond so i want to ask you something which is you've talked about class before larry and how would you say you it was working class background yeah class is huge you know you're defined by the way you live really aren't you? Yeah. Not just the way you speak. You know, you might think you're working class, but really what you are is of working class origins. You know, you were raised as a working class boy. I think I either read or heard you saying something once, Larry, about how you speak, you're kind of multilingual, aren't you? You speak like bits of German and French. Yeah, I speak French. Most people say very well. And I can certainly handle.

reasonably simple, you know, reasonable date-to-day situations in German, Italian, Spanish. But I remember you saying once someone was surprised and sort of expressed surprise, you said, oh, how come you speak all those languages? Exactly, exactly. And what's that about, do you think? Well, I mean, you know, it is the primary badge of who you are and where you're from in this country. You know, it's like you open your mouth and people start. They've got you pegged.

Where are you from? Right? And there is, there's no doubt about it. There's an element of negative amongst certain members of society towards those who don't speak the same as them. And it cuts both ways, up and down.

Do you think that still goes on? Yeah. 100%. Do you? Without doubt. Absolutely. That's what runs the world. Certainly runs this country.

And, you know, I'd just be more. making a show for the BBC and I've been going around, you know, looking at, looking at society, really, and I've been going around the country talking to people from all different kind of backgrounds. And, and the one, you know, you know, of course, you go and do these things and everybody's like, right, what's the take home? What did you learn? What did you learn? And actually, what I've learned is, I think by and large, we're just products of our environment. Yeah. You know, like I, if you'd have asked me when I was 30 years old about, you know, like my life and my achievements and all the rest of it.

Yeah. I would have told you that it was all my doing. I'd been, I was the guy. I'd made it all happen. I'd, you know, I'd be, I'd made myself a success and so on and so forth. Now, pushing 40, if you asked me, you know, how I had that bit of success, you know, I'm a white middle class guy born in one of the richest countries in the world with, you know, middle class parents who, or, you know, parents who live a middle class lifestyle, you know, who

access to other professional people who have jobs who can give you a work placement or whatever you know this this whole thing is was was handed to me on a plate really yeah right it was my whether or not I took the opportunities that's a different story but you know in reality compared to a guy growing up in the slums in Delhi like like I had everything are you both do you both vote Labor yeah yeah yeah very definitely and I think Jeremy Corb What do you both think of Jeremy Corbyn? I think he's amazing.

Yeah. I've gradually been taken by Jeremy Corbyn. He's real. He cares about people. And the first time in my lifetime, we've got a senior, significant politician who, as far as I can see it, actually, I don't want to be damning about. He's the first major politician who seems to be, he doesn't care about moving his career forward. He cares about looking after.

the majority of the people. And that is so refreshing and it makes, it's such a different take on it because most people and not, I don't blame them, you know, we're all at it, I've been at it, you know, like, I'll look after me and then once I'm sorted, I'll take care of everybody else, you know. Because you're just looking at this guy and you're like, whoa, he's got no agenda other than to look out for the majority of the people and for people who are, you know, like, you know, our society should be judged on how we look after the poor and most vulnerable in the community, right? That's a, how we, how we look after them should be the measure of success. And frankly,

certainly all of the governments that I've grown up in, they don't give a shit about poor people, whichever side they're on. And this guy, he does. Like, whether or not he's the, you know, he'll have loads of bad points and he'll make loads of mistakes and all the rest of it. I don't think he's the Messiah, but like, it's so refreshing that there's a guy out there who's like, I care and I'm going to put everybody, you know, I'm going to put the poor people first. and the majority first. So that sounds like I can hear you saying that, standing at Electon, addressing a room full of 3,000 people.

Is it coming? Do you think... So would you go into politics? I don't know if I... I don't know necessarily if politics is that... Politics is another world. If you want to be a politician, go into politics. If you don't want to be a politician, right and get dragged into that.

I don't know necessarily politics. One day I've got some notion in my head I might quite like to run for mayor of London. The two of you in the dream ticket. Larry, come on. I'm a lot. I'm much more interested in doing things at a local level than trying to run a country.

No, but really, decentralised autonomous communities that's the way to go forward. You know, just dealing with what you know and not getting into this vast arena. The problem is when you get into politics, whether they will admit to it or not, you're dealing with unbelievably huge egos. Yeah, well, you're used to that in the same news.

Yeah, but not like that. Not like that. Really? No, the average actor does not really want to be the president of the world, right? You might want to play it. You might want to play it. wants to be the Prime Minister

and actually figures they could run the world, right? Yeah. Right. That's the difference. I think. I think everyone needs to spend an hour a week with the lambs. Listen, we're... Because I just feel very invigorated now.

I just think you need an hour with the lambs. Listen, we're here, we're in Hampstead Heath. We're here. We're up on Twitter. And I wore my feminist jumper because I heard Larry say he was a feminist once. Yeah. So is he. Absolutely.

We're both feminists. You're both feminists? Yeah, very definitely. I got brought up by women. We were talking about this yesterday. If we're going to sort stuff out, then we need more women in senior positions in everything. Yeah. And like the guys have had a good crack at it.

It's not worked. And actually, let's put some people in charge who actually instinctively nurture, you know? And they want to look after the baby. They want to look after the planet. it and and it's such a sadness that seemingly if you want to get on in this kind of man's world as a woman you have to go and behave you have to bring out the masculine in you know in order in order to well i was talking about this recently on a podcast with someone and i was talking about how i feel women in my generation in their 40s we had we were very much taught that you know

your role models were people like madonna and it was be tough don't cry if you have to cry at work go outside all that stuff whereas i i feel really hopeful when i see this this younger generation of women who sort of millennials and women in their 20s and I think they're less like that they're much more they'll talk more honestly and openly and authentically about their vulnerabilities and actually everyone should do that really absolutely and that's it it's all about being honest just be honest so okay guys we're coming to the end of it we're getting to the cafe and I'm going to have a cup of tea we said I've had a really nice time with you likewise I really enjoy chatting to you I know I can't compete with the loose women Larry

I know, look, it's like we're on our own wavelength here, three of us, having a chat, right? There's no sense of any competition with anybody. You know, this has been a lovely... And you're very smart because you never say who your favourite loose women is. You better believe it. But I know you're not... We're personally, perfectly honest, I don't have a favourite. You know what I mean?

And that's the interesting thing. The dynamic changes as the mix changes. Yeah. So, Larry, am I turning you around to the dog now? What do you think of Raymond? Oh, we've got a dog with us. Yeah, you've forgotten about the dog. We should end the podcast now.

Well, I'm local, so don't be a stranger. No, don't be a stranger. Bye, George. Don't be a stranger. Thank you. Bye, Ray. Ray, say goodbye to George and Larry. Bye-bye, Ray.

Hope you love the lambs as much as I did. Please remember to rate review and subscribe on iTunes. So today's doggy thought for the day is that sometimes life can throw you a bit of a messy, dirty problem to deal with. So remember what to do, pop it in a bag, throw it in the bin, and move on to the next patch of shiny new grass.