Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Lee Mack

Episode Date: November 3, 2017

Emily goes out to Bushy Park in London with comic Lee Mack and a rescue dog from The Dog’s Trust - a beautiful 3 year old collie cross called Livvy. Lee talks about growing up in a pub, meeting his wife Tara, becoming a comic, having ADHD and his first job as a stable boy for Red Rum. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the bit that I'm struggling with. I'm not picking that up. Is anyone who's going to pick that up? Hi, I'm Emily Dean and this is Walking the Dog. This week I went out with Comic Lee Mack. Now, Lee doesn't have a dog, so we took out a rescue from Dog's Trust. It was a three-year-old Collie Cross called Livy,

who was so lovely. I would have taken her home myself, but she had better hair than me, so it would never have worked. Lee was an absolute dream to spend the morning with, Although I have a shave next time, love. And I think he really bonded with Livy, except for the bit where she crouched down to do her business,

and he screamed and said, call the police. I hope you like it. That genuinely happened. If you do, please rate, review and subscribe. And for more rehoming info, go to dogstrust.org. Right, have you got Livy? I've got Livy. That's an unusual lead, isn't it?

Because... What breed is that? Schnauzer. It's lovely. Oh, come on then. I should introduce the podcast, Lee. Do we start now? Is this officially started? Well, that's what you're meant to do.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's start. So this is Walking the Dog. I'm Emily Dean and I'm with Lee Mack. And we haven't got Lee Mack's dog today because you don't have a dog. No, I don't have a dog. Does everyone else on this show have a dog?

I mean, it helps. Am I the first without a dog? I think Larry Lamb and George Lamb didn't have a dog. Well, they're probably because the dog would keep chasing after them, surely. Well, because they're so handsome. I thought it was because they were handsome. No, no, no, because they're called... No, I get it, I get it.

Is it going to be like, this the whole way? We're going to have to explain it all. We should say, we borrowed a dog today from the dog's Trust, and she's called Livy, and she's a collie cross, I think. She is. I say that because the woman who's just handed it over to me has told me this. And do you know what? I've been walking this dog now for five minutes. And how are you finding it? three people have spoken to me already.

Well this is the thing. It's a magnet for chat, isn't it? It really is. Now, I wonder how, maybe we should avoid the... There's a way out here. The cattle, what do they call cattle grid? Cattle grids. Do people stop and like to chat?

It's a way of communicating with... It's the way humans like to talk is through the medium of a dog. But that's... I like that. Does that not appeal to you then? I'm quite confident. I'll go to stranger and sniff their bum myself. I don't need a dog to get involved. Well, here's another dog.

Oh, another dog. dog. Yeah? This is a, I like to guess the breed. That's a great day. That's a cavalier. Oh, a cavalier, sorry. King Charles.

Not a great day. No, I'm sorry. Embarrassed yourself there. Embarrassed myself, madly. Can we say where we are, Lee? Are we allowed to say it? Well, no, I just mean, aren't we allowed because I don't want to give away your local.

We are in Bushy Park. Yeah. Which is not a lot of people know about Bushy Park, even though it's massive. It's really beautiful. It's very near Hampton Court Palace. Yeah. I think probably at some point was owned by Henry the 8th. everything was, wasn't it?

Well, he was the king, wasn't he? Yeah. And I had been known to do a bit of running in here. Oh, do you? I like to do a little. Do you work out? Yeah, I mean, you can probably tell by just looking at me the answer to that question, Emily. I work out, I do a bit of running.

You don't need to ask. And also, Mo Farrah does a bit of running in here. Really? Yeah. Yeah, we often go running together, me and Mo. We need to chat for about three seconds and he's gone. Then he's off? No, then he's off.

So we decided, I'm really glad you agreed to do this? Because I know you don't have dogs, do you? Well, no. I have had. dogs but I don't have a dog. Why don't you have a dog now? Well, shall I take my history with pets? Yeah, go on. So I've got three children and a wife. Yeah. And that's enough. I basically, when I was seven, we got a dog that lived until I was 21 years old. So it lived for 14 years and I can't remember much pre-7, who can. So you could say, up until the age of 21, I pretty much, all I remember is having

this dog. Now the dog died. What was the dog called? Sheba. Yeah. And then when I was about 25, me and my then girlfriend, our wife, we got a cat. And that lasted 19 and a half years. So I worked out either day that I basically

have had two pets for 33 and a half years. Two pets for 33 and a half years. I don't rush into things. Do you think, were you upset when your dog died? I'm sad. Oh yeah, it was very sad. But she'd had a good leg. I was very sad.

He'd had a good, I mean, she'd had a good life. No, she was a husky, well it's half husky and half of them canals. Oh, they're beautiful. I like those. And it was back in the 70s when we got her. Did she stink of cigarette smoke? All dogs in the 70s. Well, I had no choice because my mum smoked like a trooper, but also we grew up in a pub.

We grew up in a pub and so did the dog. Yeah. So the dog just turned up on the doorstep one day. And my dad fed it some pies that we used to sell in the pub. And then we decided to keep it. And a few months later, it gave birth to seven puppies. Not because of the pies. Yeah.

So what happened to the puppies? The dog's penis was involved, I believe. What happened to the puppies? What happened to the puppies? We gave them away and we kept one called Jason. Oh, that's that strange name for a dog, isn't it? Yeah, it's very odd, especially given that my brother was called Rover. Boom, old school.

Anyway, so the dog, we decided to keep Jason, but Jason chewed everything up. Actually, no, there was another dog. I forgot about the other dog. Shane. Oh, really? Now, Shane's an interesting story. Yeah, go on. Shane was an Alsatian and kept attacking us,

like really pecking out us and really just nipping us. And the dog kept biting us. So my only memory of this was that my mum was in a telephone box. It got hit by a car, right? Oh, no. And it survived. My mum handed me over to the vet. And the vet says, yeah, we've had a look at Shane.

And the angels have come. I want to know if he wants to come and live with him in heaven. So, okay, thanks, thanks, you know, thanks for letting me know sort of thing. I was quite an advanced seven-year-old. And it turns out many years later, that wasn't a vet. That was her mate, right? And she had decided, enough is enough. First of all, he's barking my kids, and now he's been it by a car.

That is terrible. Let's give him away. But she didn't want to tell me that, so she pretended he was dead. So she just gave him away. So we never got that dog back. Then we got Sheba. Yeah. Sheba was until I was about 21.

Now this is a Jack Russell approaching us, I think. Yeah, that's the nippy dogs, aren't they, the Jack Russell? So what do you make of Livy? I really like Livy. We should say, because with the dogs trust, she's being, I believe she's with the dogs trust because her last family were allergic to her. Right.

The allergies. Okay, I noticed you didn't check that with me before we came out. As it happens, I haven't got any allergies, but I just said that's a bit remiss of you, Emily. I'm trying to get, you see, we are auditioning for dogs? Are you? Do you think you'll get one? I think so.

Because you've got three kids, as we said. Do the kids really want one? Do they? Yeah, and it would be nice to have a dog. My wife really wants a dog because the cats aren't giving enough love. I pointed this out to Matt Lucas on the dog podcast that they're selfish bastards cats. That's the problem.

Yeah, but I just, everyone says that, but that doesn't come into it to me. Really? I don't buy a dog because of its selflessness. I don't want, it's interesting, we've got a dog that looks like lassie today because you want a dog that's going to rescue you from a well. I want just something that we can stroke

regardless of his selfish attitude. The highlights are great. That's not highlight, surely that's natural. It looks like highlights. Hey, look at this, Lee. What's going on? Oh yeah, we've been approached by one of these crazy bicycles where will you do it with your arms, not your legs? It's unusual.

Hello. Hi. But anyway, she's growing. I really like her. She's got a nice disposition. I'm going to ask the dog's trust lady. Is Livy fully grown? She's fully grown.

So she's a cross between what I call a lassy dog. Yeah. And what? She's quite small. She's a colleague. cross? I mean, if she ran for help, it would take a while. But when I... When I asked if you wanted to do this...

You'd have started to death out that well while the time she gets back. You said, I want a mongrel. And I said to you, I don't know if you can really say that anymore. They call them crossbreeds now. No, crossbreed is surely when you cross a pedigree dog with a pedigree drug. Mixed breed. A mongrel is just lots of different. Can we say mongrel?

Can we say mongrel? Why don't we say mongrel anymore? No one does. Times have changed, Liz. Even dogs have a former political cratiness, do they? Okay, it's not a mongrel then, it's a crossbreed. So I was going to say when I first encountered you, you were standing in for Frank for his radio show. This was probably about 10 years ago maybe,

but I can remember the producer at the time, came, well, she's still the producer, but she kind of lost her shizzle a bit. And she said, look, just focus you too. And you came into the studio, you picked up a non-working phone. and started pressing buttons and having a sort of imaginary conversation, you sort of swiveling around on the chair.

I am. You pretended to type. I mean, it was lunacy. Well, I have been, we've had this conversation before, haven't we? I have been diagnosed unofficially with ADHD. Yeah. I say unofficially because it was for a book I was doing. So it wasn't sort of a proper session, as it were.

It was more of a sort of overview of my general attitude. And does that feel, does that feel accurate to you? Well, now that I've read a bit about it, Yeah, all the symptoms she described of ADHD, I thought, yeah, I've got that. I love that. But then you're quite a focus person, aren't you? Because you're a grafter as well. Well, you're raising a point, Emily, because I said that to her.

I said, I'm not. I work really hard. I focus. Someone's say too much when I'm doing my sitcom. She said, ah, classic ADHD, you're all over the place or you're hyperfocused. And at this point, I'm thinking, yeah. If I said I like eating tangerines, you go, ah, yeah, classic ADHD, that. You know, whatever I say, you're just saying, but to refer to her, that is, having done a little bit more reading now about the subject, it is true.

You're hyperfocus all over the shop. Because I think I've got it a little bit. I think you might be the first person to say, of course you've got it. Oh, you've definitely. Someone, I definitely have. Definitely. Because when I'm in an anecdote, you seem to drift off like it's not interested. It's got to be a condition.

It's got to be right. That cannot be my anecdote. Someone once described it as having too many tabs open on my own. browser yeah so what happens is I'm just on one tab and I just have to open the other one and then do you have too many tabs open on your browser yeah so I what you're my literal browser I'm a bit old-school I can't open more than one tab on a Commodore 64 but but the but the principle is I struggle with I can't go to a supermarket without feeling nauseous so if I look at all that

information on a shelf I prefer the good old days when there was just what they felt like there was less options yes I know I Now it's like... Is that part of the condition then? Just too much information, too much to take in. I feel like I can't choose something and still have looked at them all. And that's a lot of information to take in, isn't it? Yeah.

I mean, I'm talking to everything. So if I want to go and buy some oranges, I'll say, well, I can't look at the oranges. I'll have to sit all the conditioners. So I'll be there all day. Looking at every aisle and every bit of information. Taking it all in. I'm not, I don't walk out until I've memorized every barcode.

Talking to which, you know, my mum. works at quicksave, you don't know that, of course you don't, but she did. My mum, when she worked at Quick Save. This is before the pub, was it? This was after the pub. Yeah. She worked in a supermarket and they didn't have the beep-beep thing. You just had to remember the price of everything. It wasn't even priced on the food. You had to just know. That's extraordinary. She spent weeks like it was a degree. She had to spend weeks and weeks training for minimum wage. It's unbelievable. But then don't you think there probably has been a I think that people have lost retention.

Well, you wouldn't be able to do that now. People wouldn't. She'd be on some programme or something now. You don't have to concentrate anything there, do you? Yeah. You know, you set your sat nav and you start daydreaming until you get there. I mean, I do concentrate on the roads, but what I'm saying is you don't, you don't know anymore where you are. You just press a button.

Get in your car. When you get out, you're in Bernley, aren't you? Well, Frank Skinner has a rule, which is the no Google thing, which is that if you know it, you're not allowed to Google it. So if you're trying to remember someone's name, for example, someone famous and you know it, you can only Google it if it's a fresh piece of information. If you can't remember a person's name, how are you Googling it?

Well, you know, you could say the lead singer in the band or whatever. Do you know what I mean? I thought you were just going to type in Google, name everyone that's ever lived. I just start going through it. Oh my God. Oh my God, yes, let's move away. Oh my God. Yeah, they do attack it this time of year.

Oh my God. We've just come across loads of deer. Can we just explain what happened? Yeah, they're camouflage. Lee, this is extraordinary. The producer just pointed, basically we're walking along and how many deer would you say there are Lee? I would say at least 40 or 50 there's about 50 deer. Everything's okay. Are they okay these guys? I mean... Yeah, they're lying down. They haven't just... They're not sinking if that's what you're worried about.

No, I'm more... It's not muddy. No, but what they do is they, they suddenly jump out of you, don't this? We don't have another Benton situation. You've seen that video. Yes, okay, let's... That was extraordinary. I wasn't expected. You seem very kind. harm about it Lee? Well, they call me the deer man. So um... That's just me fee. The stags attack people. Do they? Yeah. Occasionally. So you have to keep away from you don't want to get... You see all these idiots like going up to them trying to stroke them and do selfies and things. Oh, I just took a picture. No, but actually going up to them and putting their children on their backs and things. No, you shouldn't do that.

So tell me, so you grew up in Southport? Correct. And your parents, they didn't own a pub always. They wouldn't own a pub when you were born, did they? That was something they did when you were kind of like... So when we were about... They worked in bars and things and then decided to get their own pub. I say their own pub. We didn't own it, but they were the managers. And we went to Rochdale. This is you and your brother, yeah.

Me and my brother and my mum and dad. And we worked at a pub called the Dog and Partridge. I said we, my mum and dad ran it. Yeah. We didn't do anything. Actually, I said, to lie, we did do something. We bottled up for 50 pia. Did he?

Every certainly more. We had to put all the bottles in the right. crates to give back to the brewery. I used to get paid 50 pence for three hours work. I know, pretty bad, isn't it? Even in the 70s. And then I used to go and spend it all immediately on 10 packets of football cards. That was a lot of bubblegum. There's a bubblegum in every card. I used to come back. I could hardly speak my mouth. That's why my mum let me do it. I'll spend about four hours trying to chew it. And yeah, so we grew up in Rochester, in the dog and partridge. Yeah. The dog connection there.

Lovely. I really appreciate that, Lee. Thanks. You've really done your prep. You're known for that and I appreciate it. Yeah, I knew this was coming up so I asked my mum and dad to get. Oh look, there's a two pugs. That is a, I think that's a French Poodle. No, those two are... That's a French Poodle, isn't it? No, that's a French Poodle, is it?

No. Boston Terrier, we're both of all right. Boston Terrier, that's what I meant. What did you say, nearly? I said French Poodle, he said Boston Terrier. Wrong country, wrong dog. Thanks. And is that a pug? Oh.

Oh, that's French Bulldog. We're doing terribly here. Oh, French Pud. What's a French Pudel then? That's just a poodle, isn't it? She's a cross and she's a cross. She's a Griffin. Oh, is that Brussels Griffin?

Yeah, my friend's got that. Beautiful. Well, I've, I've had this dog for 20 minutes. I've just taken it out for the day. Oh. She's called Livy and she's from the Dogs Trust. She's like a rescue dog. Yeah, we were sort of auditioning her to see if she bates the grade.

He's Randy. Hi, nice to meet you. Ethel, Bethel, back there. It's an absolute chat magnet this dog thing. It really is it, but do you not like that aspect of it? I like this part with the solitude. So I come running in here and people say, oh, what you should do?

Because this is the birthplace, this park of the park run. You know the famous park run? The 5K park run. It's all over the country now. It's started here in bushy park. And everyone says, why don't you do the bushy park run? Because that's the whole point of running is that you're on your own, right? Do you like solitude then?

Well, I don't crave it like some sort of sociopath. I just like the idea of certain things are for solitude. So dog walking to me, I would associate with solitude and not about chatting. Right. You got to remember that I do like, that's my job chatting, isn't it? But do you find if you're at home with your wife and kids, do you sometimes think, oh, okay, I just need to be on my own for like an hour? Like that's quite a male thing traditionally, isn't it?

That man cave thing. A little bit. A little bit. I've got a little bit that good on. Not much. I'm all right with, you know, being around my wife and children. Yeah, but even people you love sometimes. It's just that space thing. So tell me about the pub because I'm interested. So they... So I grew up in a pub from about the age of seven. So about, I don't know, let's say nine or ten. And then we were in Rochdale.

Then my dad and mum got a new pub, brand new pub that's been built in Blackburn, called the Centurion. And was this when you were sort of, you know, the king of your group in a way? Because you invite people back there and say... Well, this is the thing. We lived on it. It was a pretty bleak councillest state back in the 70s and 80s, you know. But we were lucky enough to live... You see, when it comes in Andy, I'll play the...

I grew up on a council estate card. But the reality is we grew up in a pub on a council estate. It's not quite the same thing because we were quite wealthy. Depends what I'm talking to and what I'm after. But I get this sense of your family being like real bon vivors and turn the music up and keep the party going. Oh yeah, yeah. They were party animals.

I mean, they were, and this is in the days that pubs used to close in the afternoon, by the law of the land, said you had to close your pub at three o'clock and not open it till six. And so people like my mum and dad used to do what is famously known as the locking. Yeah. So you were allowed to keep you, because you weren't, it wasn't illegal to have people around for drinks. Just couldn't sell it to them.

Yeah. I think they did sell it to them. But they used to just shut the doors and all the windows, get it all darkened there, and then just carry on drinking all afternoon. It was a big, boozy culture that I grew up. And do you drink now? I've not had a drink now for 10 months.

That's great and how do you feel? Sober. Why was that? Well I did a play at the beginning of the year for six months. Oh yes I remember. And when you've got my, or should I say, R type of, like the ADHD brain, repetition, I think, is part of it. So I get into repetitive cycles about things. So if I, for example, came home, because every night in a play you're saying the same words every night, you get the same train to work.

Everything is repeated to the point where you're passing people in the corridor at exactly the same time in the play because they're on the way onto the stage as you're coming off it. And if I had gone home at the end of a day like that and had a glass of wine, that would have been part of the repetition. So the next night I'd have had a glass of wine every night after the show. Or maybe half a bottle. Who knows? Who knows?

Maybe a bottle. But it would have been repeated, a repeated cycle. So because I didn't drink for the first few days, that got repeated every night. Does that make sense? No, that really does. It's the best time to stop drinking is when you're doing something repetitive, because you actually repetitively drink. So it's the opposite that you're repetitively don't drink.

So I did about five, six months of not drinking. Then I thought, I don't miss it at all, so I'm sticking on it. That's great, though. Did you drink when you were younger? Like, were you put off because your parents owned a pub? And did you see them drink and think... I mean, I'm not suggesting they were alcoholics, but they ran... Oh, they definitely, they were drinkers, you know.

They were the whole culture of what I grew up in with growing up in a pub. On a council estate, particularly because it's like a close-knit community. Everybody knows everyone. It was just one big house of chaos of constant. It was a bit of a rough pub as well. I looked back and I didn't think it at the time, but I looked back and my dad was constantly trying to split up fights and get chucked people out at the pub. And, you know, it was just, it was chaos.

But, you know, quite sort of funny chaos in a weird way. But I was going to say, did you ever feel vulnerable or like I don't feel safe here? Oh no, no, no, I always felt safe. It was, you just get used to your own, whatever your upbringing is. You think of it as the norm. It's only now I'm a parrot, I look back and think, I don't think I've got what my kids growing up in a pub. But they probably says more about modern parenting than it does about them. Does that make sense?

Do you think so? What do you mean you're more neurotic as a modern thing? Yeah, we're definitely all, in a lot of ways, for good reasons, you know. We now decide it's not a good idea of a seven-year-old. your own smokes, them kind of things. Well, my, I used to say, I had my first example of just me then when I was about 10, and I was saying, oh, what about when your grandmother leaves your cigarettes in the doll's house so your parents don't find them?

And then my mom was like, no. That was my first just me then. Alcohol has been a massive part of my life. But also, I, you know, I've never drank heavily, heavily, like, you know, I've heard Frank Skinner talking about his drinking, I've read his books. And he was a different level. I am not waking up in the morning and taking sherry from under the bed. Well, you're also not waking up on a central reservation.

No, exactly. You know, so I'm not that kind of drinker, but I have very mixed feelings about it. I mean, I've recently, probably about a year ago, become ambassador for alcohol concern. Oh, really? I had to speak in the House of Parliament. It was terrified. Yeah, it was really terrifying. I didn't, I thought I was totally out of my depth because I thought, we know perhaps what I'm talking about.

The attitude we have in this country towards drinking is very similar to the attitude we had towards smoking in the 70s and 80s. We thought nothing of being able to use cigarette advertising on sporting events like motor racing or snooker. It used to be the Embassy World Championships and all this kind of stuff. And then until someone said,

yeah, that's probably not a good idea, is it? And the idea of not being able to smoke in pubs. At the time, there was a real mixed feeling. I mean, I was a non-smoker, but I remember thinking, what about Civil Liberties? What about, why got your smoke in a pub? Now, I think we all agree. It was just nothing but a good idea, don't we?

We all go. Absolutely. Even smokers think that, I think. Yeah, and so I mean, I'm not really taught about this with anyone, so you could say it's a world exclusive, haven't I? You know, if you want to really hype up this whole thing to make it more profound than it actually is. I refused to do my last series of my sitcom

because it ended up on, Dave, UK TV, you know, constantly sponsored by alcohol brands. So I just refused to write anymore. I said, I'm not going to do any more until we have an agreement that says it won't be on anymore. I'm not spending 10 months a year helping to just fuel the alcohol industry. Yeah. And so after a battle that seemed to go on for a long, long time, I was even going to change the name of it at one point. So I thought, we had an existing agreement, you say.

We can't not. Yeah. It's a long, boring story. but the upshot is if I make them we're sort of legally obliged to sell it to them so I just said well okay then I'm just not making any more full stop and so what happened then I they won't they relented eventually that's brilliant though did you feel great about that I felt great yeah because I've never really been involved in a sort of a big making a big stance like this yeah like campaigning campaign and yeah I've never really I didn't I held out I just thought yeah

perhaps if I hold out so I was sort of willing to give it up because I just thought I love doing the show but I'm not I can't bear to spend 10 months a year watching it sorry I can't spend 10 months of year watching it how do you think it is for us I cause to spend 10 months of year working on it to watch to watch it being like an advert for booze can I take that out that quote I can't bear to spend 10 months of Lee mac on not going out I can't spend 10 months of year but watching so then what was interesting is well I say interesting slightly traumatic is that you went on a holiday with your parents because you obviously had these quite posh holidays. You really haven't read the book, haven't you?

Yeah, I loved that book. So you're the one? Did you read it for this? No, I've read it anyway. Wow, I'm impressed. I'm a fan of yours, Lee. I can remember something about you going on holiday. About you going on holiday and then your dad basically never came back.

I know. So you and a brother when your mum went to, was it in Spain or something? It was Spain, it was, believe it or not, back in the 80s. We went to Pondins as kids on holiday and they decided that they wanted to push this brand because it was big, holiday camps were big in this country. Yeah. And they decided that they wanted to push pontons to further afield and make it a holiday.

You could go to abroad but still go to pontins. So you know what you're getting? You know what they called it? Pontinental. I mean, how brilliant is that? Pontinental. Can you imagine the person in the meeting? I've come up with it, dear.

It's one of those classic ones, where you come up with the name first and go, we've got to do something with it. It's a bit like I had a sitcom idea once called Wife's Too Short. And I've no idea what it's about, but that's enough to go. That would have been a nice part for me. That's perfect for you, isn't it? Wife's too short.

So you went on this holiday to Pontinental in Spain? Pontinental, yeah. And then everything was fine. Everything was fine for the first two weeks. And then on the last day, they had a big row, and my dad went off. A bit drunk somewhere, down to the bar or summer. Then the next morning we woke up. Time to get on the plane and come back home.

And my dad wasn't there. My mum said, oh, go and look by the pool. he'd be asleep on one of the sunbeds or something. But he hadn't. He just decided he couldn't cope with going back and running a pub. He just went off. Then he came back off the holiday. Now, obviously, we've seen him since.

No longer with us, but he came back a few weeks later. But he just basically cracked under the pressure. And what was the pressure, though, New? Oh, it was the pressure of his own married life that perhaps things weren't obviously going well. And then on top of that, it's not easy running a pub. It's quite hard work, you know. It's literally my idea of hell having grown up in a pub.

It's long hours, it's hard work, it's boozy. I mean, it's a very intense life running a pub. And what did he say when he came back? Did he say, I'm sorry? Or did you not discuss it? He's always a joke. I think he probably said something like, well, you lot got back quick. No, I don't know.

So that's where you get it from. Yeah, yeah. Obviously an odd way to end a marriage, but had he come back on the right day, I think they wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway. It was just the spark that lit the fire. And so then you and your brother, your brother went to live with your dad

and you went to live with your mum. Is that right the way? Correct, yes. Why was that? You just thought it made sense because you wanted to stay in... My brother was more settled at his school. He was doing very well, much brighter than me.

He was established there. I had only just started secondary school so it was not a big shift for me to move. move. My mum wanted to go back to her hometown, so it was just natural for me to go back. It was natural for him to go back as well, but he just decided he wanted to carry on his schooling there, and so he decided to live there. I mean, again, things that you think of now, I look back, they just go pretty mad, right? And then I have to talk to you about pontins. Yes.

Because I love this period in your life. So then I go and work at Pontins. You'd think I'd have had enough of Pontings by now, We should say at this point that prior to Pontins, was this prior to Pontins, I think? Lee also did the strangest job in the world, didn't you? Stable boy with Red Rum? Yes, I was a stable boy. So the first, I basically came, so I do my O levels.

I fail them all, because at this point I've started messing about thinking, it'd be great to be a comedian, I'll start doing it now. So all I was interested in was larking around at school, messing about, failed everything. I leave school at 15, virtually no qualifications, and I'm at home. I literally walked into the door, thought, right, now what, I've just been thrown out of college? What am I going to do the rest of my life? I put the television on. Horse racing was on. And I thought, well, do that then. Because I don't just had a sort of vague interest, but not enough to want to do it as a job.

But I went, I'm going to do my life, tell on. I'll do that. I mean, if you could, if Babe Station had been on, I'd end up doing that. You'd be sitting here now going, I'm waiting for your call. So I, as Look would have it, my hometown had probably, in fact, definitely the world's most famous race off, certainly in this country, which was Red Rum. And he was still alive at this point. He'd retired, but he was still, you know. Well, also, Lee, that was peak celebrity time for the horse, because horses were sort of red carpet celebrities in the 70s and 80s.

Without a doubt. Yeah, well this was mid-80s. Yeah. So I rang them up and now I used to be very skinny. Yeah. And quite small. But not small enough and skinny enough to say the following lie, which was I rang. You want to say, can I learn to be a jockey at your stables to which Ginger McCain's wife, Beryl, who was the... It's a big birdly. Oh, you met her?

Oh, you've been the heron that's just flowed past. She's actually very skinny and small. But anyway. So I rang up and said, I want to be a jockey, but I've never ridden a horse in my life. Yeah. She said, well, how heavy are you? And I said, seven and a half stone. Now, I was very skinny and very light as a 15, whatever I was, then 16. However, I was not seven and a half stone.

But I was probably only about nine stone or something like that. Yeah. And I turned up, she took one look at me and went, you're not seven and a half stone, are you? Well, maybe not. And I worked there for a year. And what was red rom like? Was he nice? Oh, a lovely fella, yeah.

Still stays Dutch. He was brilliant. He really was. I know nothing about horses. I spent a year with him and I'm still non the wiser. Do you ride now? No. Last time I rode was Frank in Bulgaria.

Oh yeah, he didn't like him. He wasn't happy about that. No. He wanted to be a cowboy and then he went out and decided he didn't want to be one. Well, I think he wanted to be a cowboy until he had to ride. Yeah. Red Run was famously stabled at a horse with no gallops. It just, it was at the back of a second-hand car lot.

And he ended up being trained on the beach. And they say that the reason why he became, one of the reasons he became good was he always had a sore foot. And that's why he wasn't great to begin with. Then he trained him on the beach and the salt, sea salt water did him some magical good or something on his foot. Oh, really? And that's part of the reason he suddenly became this amazing. If you can hear noises by the day, that's a children's adventure play.

Oh, I thought you can hear noise about that. That's Lee trying to tell an anecdote about a horse. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's panicking him in anecdote. It's a sea-salted, salted sea salt with his salty horse. Lee's telling one of his one shamanic notes about the horse. Red Rub said to me, he said... This is when Lee has to work clean.

He talks about Red Rock. Come on, Livy. This way. Am I doing this, right? I hope I'm... He likes to keep it tight. I was like to keep it tight. Right. What do you think that's about?

What, keeping the lead tight? Well, I've got theory on that. Are you a control freak? Yeah, I think I am. Yeah. How does that manifest itself? Well, I like to be in control. In your everyday life?

Yeah, just like I drive everywhere. I tell you it manifests itself. Yeah. I did a hundred and twenty-nine-eight tour and the tour manager sat in the back and I drove. And that's quite unusual. Because I thought, I don't want him driving my car. And do you know what? People mocked me from my control freecary. Yeah.

There was one moment where I thought I've got to let go with this. I swear this is true. I was at a hotel in UK. castle, the tour manager says, well, I'll go and get the car from the car park. Because the rule was, he drove the car when I wasn't in it, but when I was in it, I drove the car, which was 99% of the time, we travelled together. And then he got the car from the basement of the hotel for me, and he brought it to the front. And because we had to drive one mile to the theatre, and it was pouring with rain.

I said, I was just stay in the car and I jumped in the passenger seat. It was the only time he drove me. He crashed the car. We did something like 20,000 miles on that tour. He drove it once with me in the passenger seat and the car crashed. Now, am I in control free or am I just correct? That's the way to look at it. Do you think possibly? That was making him nervous.

Yeah. That might be part of it. He'd entered a performance anxiety. Well, he wasn't his fault actually because a car hit us from behind and he shunted the car in front. So it was just, could say bad luck, but I do remember when we stopped at the traffic lights, me thinking, you're a tad close to that car in front. And when it was shunted from behind, I was proved correct when we smashed into the one in front. Now, is that a control freak? Probably.

I think you are, but I don't necessarily think it's a negative thing. Because I know when you work on not going out, you have to... You're the sort of showrunner, aren't you? But you control every aspect of it. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I'm 50 next year and I've worked... I have this new philosophy. A bit too late. Maybe you can end his title.

I'm 50 next year. And I... I should have burst into a round of a pause, like on the chat show. Just put on loads of... I'll do little voices now, you can edit in later. He said he's 50, no way. Honestly, he did that fella just... 50.

He doesn't forget over 34. And I spent my life thinking, you know, if you're a control freak, you've got to let go of that. Yeah. And you've got to put all your energies into learning to not be in a control freak. Now I'm 50, completely opposite. I now realise I'm not going to change. I put all my energies,

in being in control. Right. All the energies. So instead of reading the book like How to Not Be a Control Free, I'd read a book called How to Control Everything. I think it's called Mind Camp. But you know what I mean?

How's that working out for you? It's great. It's much more relaxing. Because you just accept yourself. You just go, that's what I'm like. It's really relaxing for the people around you as well. No, but the good thing is I don't care. Because I'm reading another book

or how to not care what people think about you or anything. How to Be Selfish. I call McKenna. It's a hypnotic thing. But yeah, so you learn to just go with it. So now, I can spend all my energies reading books about, like, you're not in control when you're flying, so I don't fly.

Do you never fly? I haven't done for a while. You're like Dennis Birdcamp? Yeah, definitely, or without the skill. And I just think, well, why, why? You can spend months going for psychotherapy reading books or spend months driving long distances. It's easier to drive that it is to learn not to be scared of flying.

But then do you also believe that, like, amazing experiences like outside of your comfort zone as well. So like think of all the places in the world that you'll never get to see because you won't fly. But think of all the places, amazing places that you don't get to see because you do fly. I bet you don't go to places in Britain as much as I do. I bet you don't go to northern France as much as I do. So you're missing out just as much as me because you're not going, you're looking too far over the horizon and not enough in your own back garden.

Well I suppose that's an interesting way of looking at it. Listen if I said to you discover every part of this park every square inch of it, Yeah. Spend you the rest of your life in this part. Lee? That's me. Okay. So I need to talk to you about when you were at Pompter.

I know. I remember the theme of the dogs just looking up going, I'm not getting a looking, am I? Do you know, a remarkable number of dogs don't bark I've discovered doing this podcast? Russell Howard's got a barker. What's he got? Big barker. So, yeah, you were at Pondins. Pontins.

And I get the feeling that that's when, well, that was your first experience of proper stand-up in a way, wasn't it? Well, yeah, I always sort of count my first proper gig as 1995 in Surbiton. That was going to a proper comedy club and I was in the gong show bit. Yeah. For people that hadn't done it before, you know. But the actual first proper attempt, I suppose, is 1988. What happened was I was the sort of blue coat that didn't entertain. Everyone else had a skill.

Singers and dancers. I was just the bloke who spoke to people and did a few sports things in the daytime and stuff. the non-performer, as it were. And I thought, I didn't mind having to go at this. Because I'd had one eye at that point of thinking, it'd be great to be a comedian, but not really a punting. I didn't really watch the comedians thinking, that's what I want to do.

I was more into, you know, alternative comedy. I started to boom at that point, and I was massively into Ben Elton. You know, I thought these other comics were great, but it wasn't what I wanted to. To be honest, it was such a dream to want to be a comic. It felt like saying I want to be an astronaut. It's all good saying it, but it felt a million miles from ever been able to do it.

Especially, don't forget, in the 80s, you know, there was no, the sort of what we call alternative comedy was based very much in London. It was a very oxbridge thing, you know, it was very, there was working men's clubs up north, and there was the sort of alternative boom in London. And so that wasn't an option to do that. But do you think that gives you oddly a kind of fearlessness in a way, that you don't think, oh, well, I can't do that because I'm not good enough, because it just seems so ludicrous that that would happen to you,

that you... Give it a go? Yeah. Well, what happened was the host of the night, the entertainments manager. He was coming to the end of his... He sort of had enough of being an entertainment manager, I think. And every week he'd get up in front of quite a rowdy crowd.

It was the adult bar. And he just had enough a bit of that sort of boozy environment. And the show was a little bit... They called it the naughty but nice show. So the dancers in the main ballroom on a Friday night for the families would do a dance routine. But in the naughty book nice show, they'd do the can-can. So it was pretty tame.

And you dated one of the dancers. I did date one of the dancers. Which is my favourite fact about you. The guy who was the magician, the kid's magician, did an adult show. But when I say adult, we're talking like putting a handker on his hand. And when he pulls a handker where he's sticking two fingers up at the audience as a show. It's that kind of level. It's not that strong.

Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, so I went on stage and I was drunk because I was nervous. Because he said, can you replace me and bring. all you've got to do is introduce and walk on and say, Les and gentlemen, please welcome the cancans. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Don't do anything other than that. But I'd had a future drink and I thought, well, God, I'll try that.

So I did summer season. And then I like after you leave pontons, because that's when you meet your other half. But then you met Tara when you were students. So then I go, I decide that I want to be a comedian and I don't know how to do that. Because as I say, there's no comedy clubs near where I'm living at the time. So what I do is I go and think,

If I travel the world, I'll be all... Oh no, I'll tell what I do. I end up living in London. I see a show at the comedy store with people I didn't know who they were at the time. Livy's having a sniff. It was Steve Coogan and Eddie Isard and all on the same bill.

I thought it was like a magical night. I thought, right, I'm going to do this. I want to be a comedian. But I still didn't have the guts to do it, so instead I went... Now the dog's doing a poo. Let's stop the anecdote. That's okay, because you know what?

Well, I tell you what happens? What happens now? The dogs do the poo bags? Does anyone got the number four? the number for the police or anything. I don't know how to cope with. This is the bit that I'm struggling with. I'm not picking that up. Is anyone who are going to pick that up? Yeah.

Oh my God. I can just see leaves. We're about it. Actually, there it is. So, oh my God. This is the bit I don't get. Being a dog owner. How does it work? Is the poo thing? The plastic bag over your hand is fine. But it's the texture, right?

Really? Look, if I bought your dog poo for a present, and I said, guess what's in there? And you were feeling it. And I said, it's dog poo. poo you wouldn't go, oh, that doesn't matter, my hands touching paper. You go, that's disgusting, because you'd be feeling it with your fingers. Yeah, but you used to have to pick up red rums poo. Let me tell you a story about red rum poo. My boss said to me on my first day working at the stables pick up that poo in the in the stable, right? So I walked off. He says, where you go?

I said, I'm going to get a shovel. He said, no, no, no, you'll be here all day. You're a stable boy. You can get rid of that idea. What you do is when a horse poos, you get your hands underneath it you hold onto a bit of hay and straw underneath and you just throw it straight in the in the in the in the skip all the all the first all the muck and fertiliser stuff so I scooped it up with my hands and threw it in now later on in the day that same day the yard dog called Tramp yeah he was a mangy old dog he did a poo in the middle of the yard and the boss said Lee pick that up now I had a problem here because I thought right is this a test isn't it he's already he's already tested him in the

the morning I told me to pick it up with my hands so I thought I had to make a judgment call yeah I had everyone looking at me that's how it felt anyway I bent down and I picked it up with my hands anyway what are you doing and I went picking it up you went not with your hands but you said yeah but that's different horses are clean dogs are disgusting and I've never forgotten those words but then you would change your children's nappies well definitely not I mean 13 trust me if you weren't a nappy at 13 you really want them changing themselves No, I changed nappies, but that's different altogether.

Should I tell you the difference? Yeah. Humans. What do you mean? They're human beings. Yeah. Part of my DNA. Okay.

I couldn't pick up your baby's poo. Really? Just your. Just me specifically. Just yours. Because it would be like Damien. I just, I don't know, I kind of woman who's baby poo would smell of chardonnay and of rusk. You know what I mean?

Strangest compliments I've never had. So I want to talk about Tara. because I really like your wife, not in a creepy way. Yeah. But I just get very good vibes off her, and she's just something so gentle but funny. Yeah, she is. I don't know.

She kind of had me at hello when I met her. And do you think... I'm about above my average? No. But do you think that that's been really helpful? Having her all that time so that you met her, you know, you know everything about her was completely pure in terms of her feelings for you?

You mean pre-comedy? Yeah. Free fame and money. what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. It was like broke students, aren't you? Oh yeah, we met. So I was at this point gone back to, if I went back to university, I might be able to become

a stand-up comedian. I didn't quite know how that was going to happen, but I thought at least I'll be mixing in the right circles to be a stand-up comedian. Yeah. I'd be more likely to say to someone I'd like to be a comedian in a university than I would work in at the Biscuit Factory. Yeah. I'd feel more comfortable saying it because it was an artie type course.

And Tara was doing English and history, and I did film and television. It was actually called drama film and television, but I always conveniently miss out of the word drama and just say film and television. I'm slightly... Well, drama's a bit more... There's a connotation with drama that I don't feel comfortable with.

I understand that. Because it was... Film sounds a bit sort of New York. New York, exactly. It sounds like I live in a sort of loft warehouse conversion. Exposed brick maybe. Yeah, and I want to do some stuff about... Everything's in black and white.

Richard I, Oiradi Glasses? That's right. The whole look. Drama says leggings and desperation. That's my autobiography. What it is, if you're a stand-up comedian that did drama, there's a sense that you learnt to become a stand-up comedian from doing drama when actually it was a theoretical degree. There was very little practice. And actually, I turned up realising very quickly this was not going to teach me to be a stand-up comedian.

So I just set up a comedy club at the college. So actually, it did help me a lot, but not for the drama reasons. Yeah. And if anyone has seen my sitcom, you'll know that the drama didn't massively how much effective. on me. Well, you say that, but I think my theory about stand-ups and comics is that they find it very easy

to act because it's so much easier than stand-up. And I sort of think... Yeah, I think that's true, actually. You know, that's the hardest of all those disciplines in terms of performing. I personally think it's nothing harder. So I think to just go on and say lines that someone else has written for you is easy compared to that. Yes, to a degree. I think it's... It's all about the right answer to them.

I'm not dismissing lines. actors but i'm not sure is writing a series of a sitcom oh hello oh that's a nice dog writing a series of a see again your bloodshot eyes what he had a very bloodshot eyes he's a dog i don't think he's given up the drinking the man of the dog the dog so tell me about tara so tara we met at yeah we met at college and did you really fancy her when you first saw her well you know I think yes so Lancasterian doesn't like talking about it do you know what I i i don't know what I like to pretend I remember the immediate moment. We were friends for a while so it was it was yeah obviously I fancied her because I wouldn't have ended up I don't believe that anyone who ends up

with somebody doesn't fancy them from the beginning yeah but it was more we sure the flat first put it that way as flat mates right there was three bedrooms the small bedroom the middle bedroom and the big bedroom this sounds like the start of a Goldilocks story right well Goldie looks X X X X on the adult channel so and there was me Tara and a girl called Becky and we drew we couldn't afford none of us could afford to pay more for the big room it was a much bigger room but none of us could afford to pay more for it

I'm losing the romance right so what we decided was to draw straws about who had the rooms right listen there's a point of this we drew straws for who had the rooms now I drew the little room Tara drew the middle room

Becky drew the big room Becky's there for 24 hours and she has to go away for two weeks for whatever reason holiday or something now me and Tara in there. Should we start heading back by the way? Let me know if I'm boring you. And then Tarry. You don't get this on parking here.

Mid-ad anecdote. Richard Burton in the middle of his anecdote. That's when I, me and Elizabeth. All right, should we get going back? Yeah, go on. No, I'm just aware that you're going to go. There's a relevant point to this. So I've got the little room, Tara's got the middle room,

Becky's got the big room. Becky goes away. Meanwhile, me and Torre get together and are now a couple. Lovely. You made your move one night. And then she left me to tell Becky. That's quite a hard thing to tell someone, right? Well, she's suddenly living with a couple.

Tell me by it. If I'm telling you. And then, and then, and then, Becky comes back and I have to tell her. Tara goes out, very kind of her. And this is how I said it to her. I said, look, you know that I'm in the middle little room and Tara's got the middle room and you got the big room. She said, well, I'm in the middle room.

She went, oh, Tara swapped with you. And I went, no, we're both in the middle room. She went, you're going to share the middle room? And then I did the sign, you know, with the finger and the fist. Oh, you didn't. And she went, oh, I get it. That's how we ended up together. It wasn't an economical decision.

But yeah, we ended up together. And you've been together for how long now? We've now been together for somewhere between, A year and 30 years, I'm not sure, but there's somewhere between. No, we've been together for, do you know what? I worked out of the day. It's about 20 years? Well, here's a thing. I'm 50 next year. You look right.

Oh, thanks, you, mate. Very good. Cheers. And there will be a point next year at some point where I will have been with Tara longer in my life than not being with her. Because it'll be over 25 years. Do you see what I mean? That's really nice, though. And I will find out the date.

I'm the kind of person that will actually put an hour on it. So I'll work out to the hour because I remember the first time we kissed and roughly what time it was. When was the first time you kissed? The first time we kissed he said, I can remember. When was it? It was 27th of December. Oh, pissed up after Christmas.

Of course. 27th of December, 1993. And we used to do that thing that you do in the first flushes of romance. We used to celebrate every 27th, every month. Yeah. Now we barely look at each other on our anniversary. Happy anniversary, I knew. We have a firm shake at hand there.

Are you quite romantic? Very romantic. Are you? Do I look romantic? I've got to be honest, I can't imagine. Can't imagine me being romantic? Well, I just can't imagine you sort of doing the red roses in the heart-shaped chocolate box. I think you'd show your love. What is this? 984?

I think, oh he's cute. Oh my God, it's happening again. Oh, Livy's doing a poo. Oh, no, it's not. She's just sniffing something. Yeah, so anyway, so Tara. So Tara, yeah, no, I think I'm romantic. Are you? I had to think so.

I mean, we all like to think we're romantic, don't we? Would I be romantic in another person's eyes? I don't know. I mean, we have our romantic sessions, as we call them. Like Holiday Mondays at Easter Sunday. You make them sound so romantic calling them sessions. Look, romance is a little bit like, you know, I'm not a big fan of public,

statements of love for other people. I've always found them a bit odd. Really? Like what sort of thing? Well, the idea that, you know, even wedding speeches, when a man gets up and says that proclaims how much he loves this woman, that's a lovely thought, but you don't need to tell us, you just need to tell her, right? I don't get why we have to share. It's like when you see people, I mean, no one likes to see people having sex in a car part, do they? Well, that's where you're... I say nobody. The majority don't. There's a market for that kind of stuff. The idea of public proclamations of love.

and affection. Yeah. It's between you and the person you love, isn't it? You don't need to tell the third party unless it's... So do you find presumably things like when people post things on Facebook or Twitter or me and my bay with hearts? Oh, well, I mean, I don't do social media, but if I did, that would send me insane, yeah. Just to go, yeah, I mean, why are you telling me?

I have no relationship with you? Why am I being told about your love for that person when I don't have any feelings towards you as a person? No, if I see a man get up at a wedding and say how much he loves his wife and how much he desires his wife and how much he, what he means to her, I think, save it for later on, mate. Do you? Yeah, I just think I don't, I don't, I'm, you're telling the wrong person. Does that make sense? It does, but I think why.

Put it this way. If they got up and said the opposite, now that would be a gripping speech, wouldn't it? That would be interesting. It's a given that you love her. You're telling us something we already know. We're at your wedding. But if they got up and said, I think she might be pregnant

than I was forced into this, then I'd go, now we've got a speech on her house. Because this is not what I was expecting. Or I've ended up with her because I was kind of too scared to leave her. You know, she's beautiful looking, the best looking woman I've ever been with,

has she got a personality to match? Well, you can't have everything. You know, if you said something like that, then I would be going, come on, this is a speech. But just to just list how wonderful another human being is. to somebody else.

Why do you think people feel the need to do that then? Because I think it might be that they struggle to say it on an intimate level. Right. I think they say this is pretty much if the wife's crying and looking emotional, it suggests it's the first time she's heard this. And I would be worried as the father to go, well, you've not told her this. Why are you doing it through us?

I'm not your agent. Just go straight to the woman and tell her. So when a man proclaims his love for a woman in a public situation, I want to see that woman go raising her eyebrows as if to say, heard it because if she doesn't it means he's not saying it enough and that is what I said at my wedding speech I don't find that hard to believe you're not on social media are you and why is that to be honest with you I just there's a guy called Pete who works with my local chippy he tells me everything I get it all from him so if I'm going on tour I tell Peter he tells a few

people but no seriously why what about it doesn't appeal to you do you know what I I found it really interesting that question. How quickly we've gone from why are you on Twitter to why are you not on Twitter? The default position should be that we're not on it. I should be asking you why you're on it. Yeah. How did that change so quickly?

Why am I not? I haven't considered why I'm not on Twitter. In the same way, I haven't considered why I haven't learned to juggle. Bad example. I have learned to do. But you probably have considered it because I would imagine.

I have actually. I have a really bad example. I haven't learned to juggle. The only thing I've picked is the one thing I've learned to do. I get the sense that you don't really need affirmation from others in the way that I think perhaps some performers do. The idea that people will pretend they're doing it because they are, it's a good way to communicate. For example, I'm going on tour and I want people to know I'm going on tour. That's a more palatable way they can tell themselves it's good to be on Twitter to get a message out to people about what they're doing.

But that's not the reality. The reality is they want people to tell them how great they are. that's it. That's the predominant reason why most people go on social media. In the same way is that you could say well that's the reason you're going on stage, right? You're going for affirmation.

You want people to tell you how great you are. Well what I say is, yeah, but so therefore I've got that covered. And actually personally, I'm more into the writing. So I actually am a bit of a reluctant performer. I prefer the writing of a joke. Once I know the joke works, I get very little out of it.

So the first night they're last. at this new joke I think that's brilliant maybe even the second night because it proves it wasn't a fluke the first night by the fourth night I want to cut me on Tongue out rather than say it again because I know it works so I'm not particularly bothered about saying it again it's also that strange thing with stand-ups isn't there where you're all buying into the artifice to a degree which is I'm pretending that I'm standing here and I've just had this thought and you're pretending even though you sort of know that I've this is the 15th night

that I've done that in the last month so well it's interesting You said earlier that you said you said the hardest thing in the world is to do stand-up. And I'm not convinced about that. Well, to be fair, you didn't say the hardest thing in the world. You didn't include brain surgery, did you? You said the hardest thing. I think the hardest type of performing is stand-up comedy. Yeah.

That probably says more about the other types of performing that it does stand-up comedy. How easy it is to live it out of doing this. Put it one way. I mean, panel games get a lot of criticism. I sort of rightly so. There's too many of them. I get that. I know because I'm all of them.

But the truth of the matter is, I know more people that can do stand-up that can do panel games. I mean, people criticise the small pool of people that are on panel games. Again, it's probably a fair point. There's not, there's a lot of people... Well, let's just face it.

The main problem is most panel games are generic. Yes. And it's not... Although it's interesting with, would I lie to you, which obviously you're the... Are you team captain? Are you allowed to score me there?

I'm the team captain, yeah. But would I lie to you is that one of those panel games that's sort of... You'd be hard-pressed to meet anyone who doesn't like that show. because it's interesting. I think it's quite modern because it's got good energy,

it's quite warm, and it doesn't have that sense of everyone pitted against each other. Do you know what I mean? Well, I think it massively helps that we're playing a game. I mean, you can remember that there are very few panel games

where you can actually play along at home. You're actually watching people perform comedy, aren't you? Yeah. You know, even something as great as have I got news for you is, it's not a real quiz, you're not at home trying to get the answers right because it isn't a question and answers thing it's a it's a start of a topic of conversation to be funny about yeah and it's brilliant

it's absolutely brilliant but what I lie to you is that the old school type of panel game where you can actually play along and say whether you think it's truth or rely at home and so to some degree you are engaged in the game which of course was all panel games back in the day wasn't it it was give us a clue and call my bluff and yeah all these shows the point is they're play along at home. And I think if you went back to those days and said, predominantly what would be on television were games that you can't play along with at home, they'd probably find that very hard to pitch because they'd say, well, what's the point then if you can't play along at home? It's just replaced stand-up in a way as a form of getting jokes across, isn't it?

So that's why personally I would allow to you, because it is a game. It's not replacing stand-up on TV. So that's kind of returning to slightly, like an older style idea of a panel show, which is kind of warm and then I think not going out has that as well in a way. Well yeah it's got I suppose because it's in a studio as well

it feels traditional which is what everyone tells me it's an old-fashioned traditional sitcom which is often used as a negative well I don't know Lee because I think you know how hard you work on that show because you're always going on about it

but I know you really put so much energy and time and thought into writing those gags because you have that idea it's got to deliver and it's sort of got to be a gags per minute thing. And it really does though because I think it's one of the funniest shows

on telly because you just, you know, you realise how lazy a lot of sort of sitcoms are. But, um, well, congratulations because it's now, isn't it one of the longest, it's the longest running sitcom or nearly? I genuinely thought you congratulations this is the longest walk I've ever had at the top. Hey, I've got a question for you. Yeah. You might not like it because I don't know if you like talking about feelings very much. I probably won't like it. No, but it's about crying. Do you cry, Lee?

I've been known to cry, yeah. When did you last cry? I genuinely can't remember the last time I cried. I'm not saying I haven't cried recently. I just, if you ask me when the last time I laughed, I'd struggle with that answer as well, especially today. I actually don't remember the crying one. When you've got three kids, it's extremely hard not to get weepy

about every news item that's obviously. because you have an affinity I definitely think you have an affinity with you know much more when you've got your own children you feel something guttural about it where you just whenever you see anybody on the news item in dire straits you automatically imagine your child being that child and it's absolutely heartbreaking that's not to say that before I had children I didn't have any empathy for humanity but I've definitely had more since children you're do you get you like a mood swings person or are you quite sort of stable because I think you

strike me as quite as stable as comics go. I think I agree with that. I think I've now, as the years have gone on, and the more comics I've got to know. You see, when I started out in comedy, one of my big things was I wanted to be like these people on stage before I was a comedian. Because I assumed that to be a comedian, you wouldn't be able to stand on that stage unless you were the most grounded, sorted, well-adjusted human being on the planet. Because otherwise, how could you have the confidence to stand there if you had any insecurities or doubts or, you know, you'd You almost like you had a secret about the meaning of life to be able to stand up there and do this. Had I known what comedians were like then, I would have got up on stage straight away instead of waiting five, six years to then do it,

because they're all bonkers. I mean, they're all absolutely full of insecurity more than your average person who's not a comedian. You see what I mean? There is definitely a massive amount of neurotic sort of... I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I think I am in answer to your question fairly not swingy with my moods. My wife would disagree probably, but... Do you have a bad temper? I don't think so.

I mean, we all say that, don't we? No, I've got a bad temper. Have you? I've never seen it. No, I'm quite, I'm relatively sunny-natured, but you wouldn't want to cross me, Lee? Wouldn't I? What, you mean, like, with what? There's a quote, which I find interesting. Is it this way?

That's not a good quote. No, hang on. That's just a direction. Wow. Have you got that above your mantelpiece, embroidered from your nun? That's my old nun used to say, is it this way? Well, that's quite profound in some way. It is quite profound.

Oh, look. She said her. She was trying to get out of the toilet. Lee, there's some horses. Oh, look at that. They might sense that you're a fellow horse person. Yeah, so what I was going to say to you, my interesting observation, which wasn't, is it this way, was that I can't remember who said it.

They're always misattributed these quotes. Instagram, right? And then Marlon Monroe said everything. But people say it was F. Scott Fitzgerald and he said that's a sign of good parenting is that the child has no desire to be famous. What do you think of that? Yeah, probably some truth in it. I had a, I suppose I had a bit of a chaotic upbringing, but I, see, I believe that I haven't got the desire to be famous. Of course, I would say that because it feels a lot more grounded to say that and they go, think about me as I'm desperate to be famous. No one would, it's not, it's never bled. black and white there is it doesn't have to be one or the other but it is I do feel that I mean

I was out with a good comedian mate of my Stuart Francis he thinks there are two tip types of comedians those that need to perform and those that want to perform and I'm definitely I wish put it one way I wish there was a third bracket because I think I'm in the if I have to perform I will bracket but well certainly with stand-up that's why I only go out on the road every four or five years I don't have this I've heard people saying this you know being a stand-up comedian on stage is better than having sex And I think, or maybe I'm just looking at I'm having really good sex, because I don't, I, and it's similar, actually it's only about one seven four years, but it is for 129 consecutive nights where we do it. But I don't have that absolute, what I have that burning desire to do is think of jokes, write them down and, and see if they work.

Right. Like test myself. And when I find out they do, I'm happy. It's like, oh, it worked, that challenge of writing, it's quite hard writing a joke. So to write one that works is a good feeling that you achieve something. I can only describe it as I'm the kind of person that the challenge of climbing Everest would be just can I climb it, not actually reaching the top. So I'm the kind of person with 10 metres to go, would happily go, should we go back down?

But you've not reached the top yet. Surely you want to reach the top. I just wanted to know I can. And it's only 10 metres away, so I know I can, so let's go. That would really annoy the aggress of the group, though, right? It strikes me that you're not interested in fame for fame's sake. I can never imagine you pitching up on some reality show or... Well, I did...

What I tend to do now is you're right. I wouldn't appear on reality show, but what I have started to do is... Written's worst drivers. No, no. But what I would do now, which I never used to do, is the rules of change. I now will definitely go on programmes

because it would mean the world to my kids, even if I know it's a really bad idea to go on it. Because, you know, the idea of them enjoying me being on the telly, they don't watch not going out. They want to see me. Robot Wars, that's what they want to see me on. Or the voice of an animated character, which I might be doing, which will make their day. Really? Yeah, I might be in the voice of a dog.

You're going to be a dog now, Lee. I know. How do you feel, by the way, spending some time with Livy, like I think it's, partly the reason I got a dog was because I'm an orphan like you. You're right. Keep it light. We should point out that you mean my parents aren't alive anymore as opposed to I don't remember my parents and I was in an orphan. That's what you mean. No, but when I lost and I lost my sister and I was going to say something to you actually.

Yeah, let's keep it like. And I will keep it like, but I need to say this to you leave. Yes. I think it was a year after my sister died and I was at the comedy awards. Yeah. And I remember you came over to me and it just felt a bit surreal and a bit weird the whole evening. Yeah. And I remember I got this kind of, I didn't really know you that well.

And it was the first thing you said to me. You just said it was terrible. And everyone was too embarrassed to mention it. Right. And I remember you weren't. weren't and you just came over and you just said it. Yeah, well it seems like that. I talked about that. A lot of people I said, I can't believe in this.

Let's be honest, very fake environment. You know, showbiz thing and I felt slightly overwhelmed by how weird I felt there. And it felt very unreal and a bit strange. And you just came over and you just won an award, I think. You were with Tara and you didn't. I just said oh and you just went, oh my God, that's awful what happened to your sister. I'm so sorry. I was so like welling up at how lovely that was that you did that.

That's nice to know. I have to be honest and say that if I hadn't had just ignored you and gone out. But I won luckily, so we both won in a way. But it was really nice. My brother died and I had a similar thing where people, it's an interesting one because, I mean, people meant well. There wasn't any harm meant me, but he died during the recording of Would I Lie to You? And I went to work and I think someone had said this in a good way, but it's a bit like Chinese whispers. Someone said in a nice way, we might not want to talk to lead too much about it.

And that had been interpreted by someone incorrectly as we're not allowed to mention it at all. And the problem with that is that then people don't know what to say because they can't say, hey, how are you? Because they know, you know when you know somebody's really ill and you struggle with that first line because you can't say, hey, how are you? Because you know the answer to that?

The answer is not well. And it's such a natural thing to say, hey, how are you, or how are you doing or how are you? That if you take that away from the conversation, it's very hard to start to say the first thing, isn't it? You just go, hello? and you just stare at it, don't you? So I got a lot of that, hello, and then just staring at me.

All right. Yep. You can't say anything because you go, well, if I can't mention the big news, what else is left? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's interesting that, isn't it? And I think people strike. Try saying to someone, right, by the way, his head's fallen off. Yeah.

He's going to be holding it under his arm, but you're not allowed to mention it. Yeah. Not wearing your hat today. Oh, God! But we don't really have any dialogue around grief or anything, so people don't know what to say. want to say the wrong thing. It goes back to that thing of public exclamations of love and things.

Certainly in the world we live in showbiz. No one wants to burst the happy bubble. And that is why anybody says anything remotely controversial in a meeting or anything. You're seeing as really hard work or difficult. When actually it says more about the world we're living, which is plastered in fake happiness. You know, a constant smile all the time about, hey, how are you? great love the show let's talk about this show that we're doing together that joke

you see yeah it's really interesting really like it just wondered if we could just snip it out possibly everyone's tense about being nice and as soon as you go no no that's a great joke we're keeping it in he's difficult because you're punctuating the fake varnish of yeah of happiness that is there all the time you know no one's I mean you know we've been to some showbys parties together yeah you know in any normal party I'm allowed to pee in the plant pot right and yeah and yeah at the parties we go to. No, no. Everything's sheened with a veneer of perfection, isn't it?

I was going to say, you have actually got a really good reputation, Lee. Oh, have I, good. Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard anything, anyone say he's difficult or he's... Funny. But some people have a reputation for being hard to work with it. Yeah, no, there's a... Sometimes it's true that people are difficult, but it is also true that we live in a world that has permanent...

I'll give you an example what I'm talking about. There's somebody I know who works in... This is the right way, isn't it? I keep feeling we're going back the other way. Yeah, yeah, we're going to write here. There's someone I know in the world of TV works behind the camera. Right.

Always laughing and smiling and happy. Someone cracks a joke, they laugh a lot, right? Yeah. And I said to this comedian, does it bother you that every time you crack a joke, that person laughs like it's the funniest thing they've ever heard? Yeah. I said, do you not find it a bit false?

Like, they're not really... They're sort of pretending they think you're funny. To which this person said, oh, I know it's fake. But I'm happy. I'm happy with that fakeness. I don't mind that they're putting an effort on. As long as they're laughing, it doesn't matter that it's fake. In the same way is that when you go to LA and the service is unbelievably good

because they've got a false smile on, they say, how are you today? You know, and it's all very nice and big white teeth smiling back at you. If you said to an American, I'm telling my anecdote, you're waving at a dog. This is what happens when you have a dogley. You know, I've got a reputation for me not difficult to work with. If you said to an American, you know your waitresses that are smiling, go, hello, sir, how are you today? You know they're false?

An American would say to you, I don't care. The whole point, as long as they're smiling and doing the service, I don't care how false they are. In fact, I like them to be false and happy and smiling. That's the difference between Americans and British, and that is why, let me tell you, why they can do comedy roasts and they work and we can't, because they're punctuating the, false veneer of smiling that we don't have.

We're punctuating nothing. We go around saying, all right, you're fat. So, comedy roast don't work. Do you get what I'm saying? We're already doing that every minute of the day with each other. Yeah, that's really interesting, because for them, that's like a release, isn't it? Yeah.

We don't need that release now. We don't need release because we spend our life saying things like, finally, that brawl doesn't fit, does it? And you say. I tell you. I'm talking about the one that I were. Do you get nervous when you're doing stand-up still? Or did you ever get nervous?

Because I know you've said something about this, haven't you, that you think if someone gets unbelievably nervous, maybe it's not the job for them? Well, there is a thing about... There's an old thing about stand-up that says that if you're not nervous, you should be nervous. It shows you're a good performer. I believe that is a thing that has been invented by comedians

to make themselves feel better about being nervous. There's three ways of being. absolute confidence, are completely sure of yourself. That is the best way to be. Second best way to be is nervous, so at least you've got some energy in you and it matters to you.

And the third way is absolute apathy. And what happens is I've gone on stage with apathy and it's always been a disaster. Really? I've gone on with nerves and it's been okay and I've gone on with absolute confidence and it's been the best. It's not the best way to be,

but it's definitely better than being apathetic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never been the type that's been throwing up in the toilet before and. But there are comics like that, aren't they? Oh, I just don't know. Why? Why do? You must really love being on stage, right? So the point you'd vomit before you go on.

The reward is so great. Yeah, I like being on stage, but I don't love it that much where I'd vomit before and. I just, the problem with stand-up is that you really can, particularly in the last few years, because of how big it's grown, is how important you think you are. I mean, it's pretty hard not to think that anyway.

If you've spent years, the most of it all comedians, in common is that they're terrified of getting up in the first place. The very first time they do stand up, almost all of them are terrified. They all think they're going to fail, and to be fair, most do. So the ones that survive and don't and carry on doing it think, I must be special then, almost Christlike. Maybe I've been put on this earth to give a message.

Maybe I better try and change the world because this, and he goes, can I just say, you're just like Ken Dodd? It's all you're doing for a living. You're getting up, you're lighting in the low for an hour and half of their day-to-day jobs, going, that's it. Stop thinking that you're here to change the world. Because I'm not saying, don't know. I mean, I think if you do do that,

if you're doing it for the right reasons, it's very worthwhile. If you're trying to do a charity gig for the Bristol Slapsdict Festival, then I think you are Christ-like, a bit like I'm doing tonight. There are a certain... Yeah, there's a breed, isn't there?

There's a breed that genuinely believe that they have been put on the earth to change things. Perhaps in a way. way that they're not capable of doing. You know what? I wanted to ask you, Lou, you've had therapy, haven't you? Because you had therapy for the book. I have to be, I have to be honest.

I only had therapy for the book. So what I did was I wrote my autobiography. And it was pointed out to me that it's not the most personal book. Because as you pointed out, I don't really do the displays of emotion very well. So the book was quite a lot about how you're getting cold folded in comedy. You know, there's like 47 consecutive pages about our structure sitcoms. So it's the person says, yeah, you might want to write a bit more about. your mum. So I thought, well the best way to do this is to go to a therapist. She reads the chapter

and after every chapter she interviews me and she can talk about that chapter and then I'll write it out like a sketch. Yes, it was a transcript. It was the genuine conversations we had. Was it? It was. Obviously I'd edited it for comedic purposes and also added my thoughts. So a lot of it is my thoughts, how I felt at the time or afterwards listening back to the trance to the recording. I thought it worked really well. It really made me laugh. As someone who's had a lot of therapy, I liked it as well because, and has ADHD, I liked it because your mind was racing in a way that actually does happen when you're talking to someone because you do feel slightly on edge when you're in a therapy situation, especially if you're new to it,

I think. But did you, how did you, I know you were doing it. It wasn't, well, she said to me, she said, look, I have to tell you now, this is not how you do therapy by reading someone's book and then interviewing them whilst it's been recorded for what is of comedic purposes. but she did point out some things that perhaps I hadn't thought about, like perhaps I've got ADHD. Yeah. What else? Perhaps I should turn up for these sessions with clothes on.

You know, they're not the usual thing. Perhaps I shouldn't be sitting there crying and masturbating at the same time. There's all sorts of little things I hadn't considered me. Perhaps you shouldn't use humour all the time to deflect. That's right. She did say that, but I didn't really go in that bit. Well, you know, Russell Howard said he had a bit of therapy, And that's basically what she said is he walked in and she made some reference to Guantanamo

and he immediately said something about, oh, orange isn't my colour. She said, well, why do you feel the need to make jokes all the time? That's quite weird, I suppose, for you because that's your thing, isn't it? And I think with the right therapist, you can still make jokes. Well, yeah, it's an interesting way. I mean, like Freud says there's no such a joke and that everything represents something else. And I suppose that is true, but, you know, you shouldn't always use comedy to deflect. You wouldn't say that to a singer, would you?

You go, my mother died, so I sang this fantastic ballad about her. A therapist wouldn't say, well, wasted your time there, didn't you? You've deflecting with a song? You know, I mean, go, oh yes, I turned my pain into an art form of a song. Well, I've done the same with a joke. Why is one worthy and the other's called deflection? Hello. Don't say hello to the dog.

I made a really good point. Woman in background laughs with a dog. Do you know what, Lee, I'm going to give you that point. That's the point. I've never thought of it like that. But I think you're right. It's about the art form of comedy is always, and has always been, even despite the fact that it's never been bigger than it is at the moment,

low rent. The more you go for laughs, the more low rent you are. Even in our world of comedy, the ones that go for the laughs are seeing as lower rent. Yeah. You've got to be going for somewhere else now, because it's seen as like, we just said, deflection, there's a fire in the distance. Look. Do you think it's my car?

Oh my gosh. What's happened? That's a proper fire. I hope it's a bonfire and an intentional fire. fire. Oh, is it in November the 5th yet? Oh yeah, we're getting there, that's rightly. Well, Lee, we're going back to the coffee shop.

Have you enjoyed our walk? I really have, and I've enjoyed Livis' company. Oh, thanks. Oh, I've got to go. It's 1252. I'm late. Come on. No, I have really enjoyed.

I've enjoyed your company. I've enjoyed the dogs. I would, for someone that is auditioning dogs, one to type, you know, for my family, she would pass the test. She's a lovely dog. She's placid. She's only done one defecation.

And let's be honest, I didn't have to pick it up. Someone else dealt with that. And would you go something like dogs trust, do you think, like a rescue dog? Oh, definitely, yeah. Because I always see it as like they're in prison. And I always think of them as the nice prisoners like Ronnie Barker in porridge. You know, I want a dog that's done the equivalent of fraud or something genteel, though. I don't want a dog that's in for GBH.

Can I go this way so I can go straight to my car so you can see my flash car on the way? Thank you so much, Lee. Thank you, Alan. And if we'd have had a chance to do a bit longer, I could have told you about my feelings. But I've just... Get in the car. I really hope you enjoyed that. Here's today's doggy thought.

Train your dog so they learn never to try and steal your lunch. They'll just make you feel so guilty. You can't enjoy it. Oh, and I just wanted to say a big thanks to the dog trust for loaning us Libby for the day, who was lovely. If you want to find out more info about them, go to dogstrust.org.org. And please remember to rate, review,

and subscribe on iTunes if you liked it. Because I like to read the reviews to my dog Raye every night. I mean, I'm not putting pressure on you, but if they aren't glowing, he has nightmares. Just FYI.