Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Mark Radcliffe (Part Two)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Emily and Ray are in Regent’s Park with Mark Radcliffe and his cavapoo Arlo! In this part of our chat, we find out some of the extraordinary encounters Mark has had throughout his broadcasting career - including a surreal experience in David Bowie’s dressing room… We find out why Mark turned down Strictly, how he approaches his partnership with Stuart Maconie and why Arlo is the perfect travelling companion. Mark’s brilliant book Et Tu Cavapoo: A Dog’s Life In Rome - which follows Mark’s three-month sojourn in Rome - told through both Mark and Arlo’s eyes! You can get your copy here!You can listen to Radcliffe and Maconie on BBC Radio 6 Music on Saturday and Sundays from 8-10am and The Folk Show on BBC Radio 2 on Wednesdays at 9pmYou can buy tickets for An Audience With Mark and Lard at http://markandlard.com/ Follow @themarkrad on X Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with the fabulous Mark Radcliffe and Arlo. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already and do order a copy of Mark's wonderful book, Et 2 Kabapoo about his travels around Rome with Arlo, because I promise you'll love it. I'd also love it if you gave us a like and a follow, so you can catch us every week. Here's Mark and Arlo and Ray Re. You've written your, as we'll call it, one of your autobiographies.

It makes it sound like the decline of all of the Roman Empire. Yeah, yeah. You write, and I found it fascinating, just reading about all the extraordinary encounters you'd had and not just with, oh, once I hung out with S Club 7, it's not the usual for her. I don't think I did. Did I?

If you did, you neglected to document that. I don't think that's made it into one of my many autobiographers. It was things like kind of giving David Bowie advice on his set list. I know. I know. So it's like really, yeah. Was he nice as you like him? Yeah, well, he was my big idol.

And it was, you know, it was my big island. It was my first big gig when I went to a big living in Bolton and got the bus into Manchester, went to see David Bowie doing Ziggy Stardust. And it was just like, this just blew my mind. So the idea that one time I'd be sitting backstage with him at the Hammersmith Odian, and he would be with me and Mark Riley in his dressing room.

and he had a handwritten set list. And he said, oh, he can't get this right. What do you think, lads? Said that, why, lads? What do you think of this? He said, shall I put heroes here after Zygi Stardust? Or shall I do it there after changes in life on Mars?

And it's like, how has this happened? How has this happened? You know, it was like an out-of-body experience because we were trying to keep calm and give him, he wanted someone to say, I'd do that if I were you. He just wanted someone. He was on his own there.

But we're having an out-of-body experience. I think, I bought Ziggie-star, me paper around money in Bolton and listened to it lying on my bed and he might as well have been from Mars for the closeness he was ever going to be to me and when I saw him live in concert and we were even in the same space it was amazing so to get to this connection is incredible is incredible still and you make a really interesting observation about people you've met like Nick Jagger and you know Kylie Minogue who I feel you were oddly quite good friends with yeah how you're sort of aware that they have to necessarily decide on their persona because it's kind of

exhausting meeting people all the time so it's like what am i going to be like so i'm not giving too much away i found that fascinating you were like well Mick jagger has a sort of i can't remember the word you use but it's like he's a bit regal or something or maybe that's not the right word he's um well i think these people are very most of the people are met who've been enormous stars, the McCartners and the Bowies and the Jaguys, very charming. Really? Very charming.

Not remotely trying to be cool. Bruce Springsteen. It's just really nice. I mean, what would be the point? They've proved everything a hundred times over many years ago. So I think they decide to do something. They sort of seem to have a genuine interest in doing that. They seem to do a really good job of it.

You know, there's never the sense that they're too cool to be bothered. But then do you think... I wonder if you bring out that's the best in them, you're very authentic I think and yeah I mean and I'm very interested in the music

I'm a comment of these things from really being a fan and I'm not sort of doing I'm not putting them as a notch on my celebrity bedpost you know I'm just I really love their music and I think and I think

hopefully that they would feel that you know that I'm coming at it from a fan but we've both got to sort of do a professional job of it you know I can't say well Bruce Springsteen it's great to meet you you're great I've always loved you what does he say to that you know yeah so does everyone I bought Bruce Springsteen there's a brewery in Manchester we were making a beer called Juice Springsteen so I gave him four cans of that said here try this well he took it away with him I don't know

whether he drank it he was very charming he was really nice really nice and Kate Bush you're one of the rare of the few people I know to have not only interviewed her but she invited you to her home. Yeah, I know. And so she, I mean, she's absolutely lovely, you know. And, like, you know, people say she really kind of just normal. I says, no, she's anything but normal. But in a wonderful way, you know, she's not a mile.

He says, you know, she says people expect me to live in a kind of Gothic castle or something, and she doesn't. She lives, in that point, she's moved now in a nice country house near Reddy when she had a flat on the Thames where I went once. And she's really lovely, super smiley. but you know a mind goes all sorts of different directions very you can tell it's a really creative mind floating off in different directions but really charming and welcoming and not remotely I think that's the thing with all these people the really famous people when you mean

they're not remotely distant interesting they've decided to do this and they will be with you in the moment maybe the way they are because they've nothing to prove anymore maybe enacting in which case they do it very well. But they're not, you know, they're not difficult and distant in any way at all. Well, crucially, they're successful ones. So maybe that's a key kind of quality, a necessary quality. Well, I think that people just do it with good grace. So, like, you know, obviously none of those people who mentioned need to do any promotion of anything ever.

Right. So they decide to do it. They must think, well, okay, I've heard him or I know his background or like that, maybe that would be okay to talk about it, you know. And so they meet you at least halfway. Yeah. Yeah. Well, obviously, do you think you're quite charismatic?

I don't think that's for me to say. I don't feel so. I know I can make people laugh. I know that I can entertain. I know it can be a pain in the arson. But I mean, I think that anyone who says, I'm very charismatic, that's something really wrong with you, isn't there?

You can't bestow charisma on yourself, can you? Really? I wouldn't say, I mean, you know, it's easy to be disingenuous about these things. I mean, I've done enough on radio and TV and live to know that I can engage an audience. And I know that I can sort of tell a rambling anecdote and I can know more what I'm going to say than it looks like. I wish I was smart enough to think of the things that I cheat. people to think I've just thought of you know all those scripted out libs so I don't think I'm on it I know that I am able to engage an audience whether that's

charisma or not I don't know not for me to say how do you feel about compliments compliments well I think that while I was building a reputation if you like my stocking tray was self-down deprecation. And like the Mark and Lard thing, as I said, it didn't work on the breakfast show, but the Mark and Lard thing was very much based on Wichers 2-Wankers having a go. And there's still a bit of that. But I think that you can't really, having lasted as long as I do, pretend that you don't think you can do it. Because clearly you can do it. And you've been doing it for 30-odd years. And if you couldn't do it, they'd have got rid of you by now.

And so I'm not sure that that line of... So I'm aware of my own longevity and that I must have done something right for good periods of that or else wouldn't still be doing it. And I think it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise. So, you know, that whole, oh, what, little me act is probably wears a bit thin at the age of knocking on 70, don't it? Oh, Arles, you're so cute.

I get very good energy from Arlo. I'll get to where we go in, and then I'll see if he'll eat his lunch. I've got his biscuits, corn beef and a smattering of grated cheese in my bag. He's very key. Can I say that's such a Mark Radcliffe thing to say. When I knew I was going to interview you today, if I could have predicted anything,

I wouldn't necessarily predicted it, but it makes me very happy. Because I think that just feels peak Mark Radcliffe that. Corned beef? Yeah. Yeah. I like corn beef. It's like funny with corn beef.

He likes corn beef. and my children used to say, God, that dog food stinks. I said, this is human food, you know, corn beef. They've never had it. They've never had it. They've had scallops, you know, but they've never had corned beef.

Was that the one with the key or was that spam? No, well, both, I think. I think you can still get corned beef with a key mark. Well, I don't know. That sounds like it. I don't know. It still does, don't it's like sardines. Why are they?

The sardine tin's a bit of a design classic, isn't it? I love a sardine tin. Yeah. But it's almost impossible to get a key and open a tin of corn beef without half slicing one of your fingers off. So why it's still a thing? I've changed though. We get it in slices from waitros now. Or Aldi.

The Aldi corn beef is slightly inferior, but it's good value. He's not bothered. I've noticed while we've been on our walk, it's a really lovely response you get. You won't be aware of it, but I just noticed people looking at you and smiling. when they recognise you and it seems like a nice that seems lovely because it's like people are saying I like him I think that's where my life has been which is nice as we say you know I was never flavour of the month and so you know people like you know Chris Evans and

people you know people people who loads of people really really like them and but quite a lot of people really decide they don't and I've never been famous enough for people to people who don't like me just move on and don't bother it's usually people don't recognise me but they hear me talking and obviously I'm walking round a park and they'll think of my right pain of the arse now I said go to pass Mark Radcliffe in the park he was talking at the top of his voice

he never shut up poor woman who was with him she didn't get a word in edgeway they don't know we're doing a podcast they just think I'm a gobshite talking at you none ten to the dozen the thing about me yeah they're just thinking this man was just going and telling him his whole biography

I know, poor woman. Poor woman. Oh, listen to those screeches, Mark. Sound like goals. Yeah. If you think back to Little Mark in Bolton. Yeah. What do you think he would make of how your life is paned out and is panning out?

Do you think he'd think, wow, I wouldn't have thought that would happen? I think he'd think fair place. Well done, yeah. I mean, I did think that when I started working, it was like, as I said before, you're going to do a job, it better be something that you didn't hate. I thought if I could do a job that I enjoyed and I could maybe afford to buy a semi-detached house and a hatchback car, which then was quite a modest aspiration. Now you need a million pounds to do that. But it's like the, but I'm quite proud of myself, really, that I thought, I won't worry too much about money. I mean, I'm kind of university educated and it was unlikely ever to get really.

desperate but I was okay with not having a lot of material stuff if I could just do something with music and enjoy life really and not come back from a holiday and dread going back to work I thought well that would be a good way to live and obviously it's turned out considerably better than that but I'm still quite proud of myself of having had that state of mind at quite a young age yeah I can see that and are you someone who sort of makes things happen for your rather than waiting for the phone to ring? Well I mean the beautiful thing about where I am now is I'm not building a career so that like I only do things I want

to do I don't have to do anything so I do I do get offered things I get a lot of offered you offered strictly once I was offered strictly turn that down why did you turn it down I'd be terrible I mean and also I don't I'm not really competitive and so I get offered all these celebrity mastermind and all these sorts of things and I won't do it because also who's got the energy for the affair. I know. I always think like, what's the best thing that can happen? I'll get a trophy. I mean, it's the worst thing that can happen is you look an idiot. I mean, David Blunky was clearly an intelligent man. He got two, didn't he on the general knowledge round. You can

always get 12 questions you don't know the answers to. Yeah. Did he? Yeah. Why take the risk? Why risk it? Well, you could always do... It looks like a husky. Look at the big old husky. Is it a husky? Is it? Beautiful. Hello husky. See, it says in my book that all dogs, we're doing a podcast about dogs. It says all dogs are 99% DNA shared with wolves. Now with this husky, you can see it with Arlo your cat and Raymond, can you? Aski, you're so beautiful, my love. Gorgeous.

My love. My love. God. God. Oh God, I thought the dog was called God. Hello, my love. A beautiful animal. Beautiful.

You are so beautiful. You are so beautiful. You know white and grey and blue eyes. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Bye-bye, my love. Yeah, that's a beautiful. What a stummer.

I know. It's still quite a lot of poo to pick up, though, in it? Big dog. Yeah, big dog. I mean, big, don't you're letting... When I said, what a stutter, I hope she didn't think I was object to find her. Yes, how did it?

Do you know what? I'm not sure what the dog was called. Was it goss? Like Matt Goss. Ghost. Oh, ghost. Ghost. That makes sense. They all quite ghostly.

You see, I came down on the train with Arlo just curls up next to me. There's no trouble at all. Go in places with a massive dog. I can't be bothered. Ghost would be high maintenance, do you think? Yeah. Yeah, it's too much like I'll work, in it. And if you go away and you say, can you mind my dog for the afternoon?

Anyone will have Arlo? Because he sits on their couch and just wait until I get back. Or does he say, can you have my pack of huskies for the afternoon? Get lost. You're joking, aren't you? Well, that's the thing about Ray. As long as someone's got a silk cushion and patte, he's fine. Exactly.

Exactly. He's very low maintenance. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think dogs, I say in the book, really, dogs are incredibly well equipped and adjustable for this lad. Better than humans.

He's on the grass. You know, you're like, we didn't need anything. We could set off for London, put his lead on, and he's ready to go. Yeah. Didn't need anything. Yes, you make that point in the book, which I really love, and I've never really thought of that. He said, dogs just are ready to go always.

Yeah. the squirrel. I do say though, it seems to dogs are better suited to life than human. But they said to balance it off on the other hand, dogs can't drive so let's call it a draw. But they like being driven. But they like being driven. Well, he thinks cars are great because he says

he makes the point about, aren't cars great? You're just getting and go to sleep. There's the squirrels. What would happen if Arlo had access to that squirrel Mark? He's never caught one. Yeah. I actually don't know. Do you think he would eat it? I actually don't know. I don't know. Let's not find out

No, let's not find out There's a railing there anyway I don't know I mean presumably a squirrel Can you a pretty good scratch And a bit of a nip I think you definitely want a tetanus afterwards Yeah

Hello squirrel They look so cute Don't they? Do they bite? Yeah, they do I'm sure they would I'm sure they protect themselves So I don't know

We come in peace squirrel Well we Mark and Ray and I do Yeah I think I'll I think it probably who, I don't know, I think the wolf DNA would probably kick in. Do you think so? I do, actually.

I mean, he's so, there's something primal in him, isn't there? He's pulling, he's seen, he trots around on the lead, he's good on the lead, and now he's just straining at it. And there's something primal. All he can see is that. You say that? Can you see anything primal in Ray? No.

I can't really. I think the squirrels are pretty safe with Ray, aren't they? Oh, Mark. I feel you've been masculated him. It's your dog. It's not my fault. The squirrels are going to be okay with you. I think Arlo is just that tunnel vision on the squirrel and he can't think of anything else.

He's looking for them now. He knows they're in trees so he scans trees. He likes a forest walk and like at home I can let him off the lead but in a forest camp because he'd get a scent and he'd be gone. I love your show with Stuart McConey that you do. Stuart McConey that you do on the weekends. Saturday and Sunday, isn't it? And with that, I mean, obviously you had a long-term partnership with, well, let's call him large. Yeah, yeah.

That's, you know. Yeah. Your fault, Mark, if you are going to let your nickname be known, you will forever be known by. Exactly. And now you work with Stuart. And I was wondering, how do you, do you just sort of, is it a case of when you know, you know with those partnerships. You know, when you think, well, this is, this feels right.

This feels. Mark and I, you know, we were young and then we were sort of starting out in it. We didn't have kids or anything. And we sort of just hung out together. We were sort of best mates throughout. And it sort of grew really. And he was sort of the psychic who did bits. And his part grew and grew.

With Stuart, we started. We always started more off on more off on an equal footing, I guess. I don't think Stuart and I think of ourselves as a double act. We think of ourselves as two. solo acts we work together do you know what I mean I don't think it's the same thing really but I think that we always used to be a guest occasionally on our old night time show and we always found it easy to talk and funny and it always seemed to you know we still sort of make each other laugh and things it's a thing of

trust really it's a bit like I guess it's a bit like being a sort of trapeze at really You're going to trust the other guy or whoever's at the other end to hold on to you. Because you both go into it because at any point someone could say, well, that's a stupid thing to say. And it finishes because it is a stupid thing to say. But you've got to work with someone who picks that up and takes it then somewhere else and it keeps leading and connecting on. It's the improv thing, isn't it? It's the improv thing. And I think that is that because people say to me about that show, is it scripted?

I said, well, what do you think? I mean, how could it be? you go into a meeting and say, right, let's do a bid three links on route master buses this week. You know, and everybody said, well, that's really boring, isn't it? And it probably is. But so it's just, I think, having done it for long enough to have the confidence to let it roll, Frank could be the same. You know, he's like, none of us have got anything to prove which sounds arrogant. You know, people know who we are now.

Well, Frank has exactly that attitude. one of the things I love about working with him is is exactly what you're saying that he has, he really brings that spirit of you've got to feel sort of creatively safe. Yeah. In that you can't have people shutting things down or saying,

what on earth you're talking about? And again, Frank Skinner's got nothing to prove. Everybody knows, everybody knows Frank Skinner knows that he's properly funny. So he doesn't have to prove it every time he opens his mouth. And I think sometimes that makes people much more generous collaborators because they're not trying to be top dog in a sense,

even though effortlessly they often are. But I think that that's like, that's sort of what I'm saying about where I am now. I'm not trying to prove anything that I haven't proved for the last 30 years over and over again. We know what this means, Mark. There's a squirrel. See, what's that? Hello, where's the squirrel? Oh, hello.

That's it. Jumping up against the tree trunk, like that. Hello. Oh no how do you think this will end if you make it up the tree? Yeah, I know. And the squirrels just look down at him with disdain because they know he's not going to get there. Oh squirrel, don't worry. We come in peace. I think the squirrel's entirely unperturbed.

I think the squirrel's remotely worried. Have you ever interviewed anyone, Mark, and you've just thought, okay, this is going to be like crawling a hill of broken glass. This person is just shutting down or... I mean, we did have quite a famous... I'm reporting Stuart and I with Father John Misty, which went very badly. For reasons, for reasons I'm still at a loss to understand, we were fans and we wanted to have him on. And he just seemed disengaged.

I don't know whether he was, I think he might have been, shall we say drinking? Yeah. And he, I don't know, it just went badly. It was car crash, really, and Stuart was really incensed. I mean, and not unreasonably. And I was like, more, what's going on? So Stuart, we put a record in the middle of it, and Stuart said to him, look, if you don't want to do this, just go.

And he said, no, what are you talking about? You know, it's fine. And so we tried again, and it was just as bad. And so at the end of it, Stuart was really annoyed. I think Stuart left the room, and he wouldn't shake his eyes. and I think I was driving the desk that day and so I said yeah I shook his hand because I'm like do you know what I've had bloody cancer I don't care really let's just let it go it's fine but it was very strange and of course it was live on the

radio so everybody heard it and people like well what the hell was that about and I still I'm still not entirely sure although but not much really not you know I've had very few difficult I had so Jonathan Richmond was very difficult, which was a shame because I was a big fan of the modern lovers. What about when you went to an audience with Kylie Minogue? Well, yeah. And then you asked her some, which was no thought of your own. It wasn't.

No. What happened again? Well, Kylie Minogue became, not a friend, but well known to us. Because her career, people forget that people like Debbie By and Callie Minnard, they had periods where their career was kind of in the doldrums, really. And she came on our show and she did all the voice of our jingles. And that was around the time because she'd started working with Nick Cave and was working with deconstruction. Yeah, Manick Street, Street.

Yeah. And so then her career took off again. So she invited us to, as a sort of thank you, to go down to London weekend television to be on an audience with Kyla Minogue. You know, where you go in one of those things and Rusty Lee and Christopher Biggins ask questions, you know, say. And it's all planted, you know, fair enough, they're rehearsing the whole show. And they all ask the questions like, oh, Kylie, Australia's brilliant. isn't it? Is it always been brilliant or is it brilliant? You know the sort of thing. And we were supposed to be given a question and we didn't have one.

So we didn't think about it. It was a free bar. So obviously got hammered. And we went in there and she came over at one point in the show and said, oh, I see my two favourite men looking down at me there. And genuinely, we didn't know who she was talking about. We turned around and thought perhaps Hale and Pace had got in. But she said, oh, Mark and Lard, you wags, you know, funny. And she said, he's got a question for me, haven't you? And we said, no, because we didn't. Because someone had forgotten to give us. the question. So she said, oh, go you two, you're such a couple of wags. What's the question? We said, no, so Mark asked her a question to get out of it. I think he asked her about, it wasn't the question we were supposed to ask her. No, it definitely wasn't. What was it like

working with Nick Cave or something, which would have been, and he said to her, you were a mechanic in neighbours. Did you know what you were doing? Had you got a city and guilds in it? Or have you got, you know, you're winging it or something? I think he may have mentioned a trived dolomite and a sump. And she burst into tears and stormed off because she was so stressed. Did she? Yeah.

And it took a lot of persuasion. She was supposed to be on our show the next day. Because she thought, maybe she thought we were stitching her up. And you're taking the piss? Yeah, which we absolutely weren't. And we wouldn't have. But it was just not, no one had given us a question. So what happened afterwards?

Well, she did realise. And she, her plug her, you know, the person who was looking after her PR, was an old friend of ours. And we said, listen, you know us. We would not do this. This was an accident, not of our making. And eventually they're convinced her that that had been right.

And so she did come in the next day. We gave her a big bunch of flowers and said, listen, this is what happened. We absolutely, swear on our children's lives, we would not do that to you. We didn't know. We did not know. You were coming to us for a question,

so we didn't have a pre-prepared one. No, no. And so I think eventually she took it at face value. It's hard, though, Because you're always thinking has a bit of that warmth gone out of her eyes? That's what I would be worried. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but anyway, then she was soon up and off out of our echelons.

You know, she was global superstard and beckoned. Do you worry when things like that happen? I get very worried about offending people. I really don't want to offend anybody. I don't. I think it's difficult. But I mean, I think it's become much easier to offend people, isn't it? because people are so determined to be offended now.

Whereas really, in the old days, you can just take the piss of anybody and everybody took it in good measure. Whereas now, it seems to me quite a lot of people go out for the day, just hoping to be offended, then they can complain and write about it. Riding around on bikes with a GoPro camera on the head, just so that they can complain that someone's got in their way, do you know what I mean?

It's like rather than just saying, oh, well, you know, shit happens, don't it? Do you know what I mean? So, but I suppose everything changes and that's great, and we have to watch what we do, but you know I do think people are very quick to complain these days and everybody with social media has got an immediate voice haven't they and so that's great in some ways but I do think you know you can see these people who kind of go viral about the well not go viral they don't

go viral they've got 12 followers that's the thing in it but it's out there and in the other and those opinions that no one would have valued or noticed in the in the old days and to some ways that's better. What do you think of Ray? Do you know what? No, but I've decided that is the dog idea of friendship. It's a bit like, if you didn't mind me saying how men have friends, they sort of tolerate each other and don't really discuss emotions or anything like that.

A bit of that, I think, yeah. They go, all right, mate, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a bit, I think that's true. It's like a male fishing friendship. Yeah, I think that... Which I quite like sometimes. I think Bella has, like, good friends who she has long chats with. And I have people who say, all right, yeah, yeah, not bad, yeah.

And as Bella say, how come you didn't find out about X, Y, Z from them? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that happens quite a lot, yeah. Bella and you sound so beautifully suited. Well, she did the illustrations, didn't she feel? Yeah, we're very different. She's, you know, she still sounds incredibly posh to me. She's comes from Hampshire. I think people expect my wife to sound like a roadieful.

oasis or something and she's she's not what people expect and she's very very um you know she wouldn't want to she wouldn't want to do this she wouldn't want to go on stage she wouldn't want to be noticed she uh doesn't like any public attention really no she's very calm and very uh i don't know she's she's either quite wise or she's managed to convince me she is um which is sort of amounts to the same I suppose, doesn't it, really? What would she say are your most challenging qualities? That's an interesting question, isn't it? Snoring.

Isn't that somewhat inevitable? Once you get to a certain age in your mail? I think she thinks I'm impatient, so I'm really kind of bad to travel with and queues at airports and things like that. I'm really agitated and not. I'm really not a calm. traveller and so I just think she would think impatience and I don't know I think that I think

perhaps you would think I could be more romantic I don't think I'm naturally very romantic and prone to the big gesture you know but I think she thinks them all right, you know. So we still make it to the laugh, you know, I think that, and so, you know, and I'm good at earning a few quid. And I'm full of ideas, always full of ideas, some of them hairbrained. And so I don't think she, I don't think she could call me boring. I think one of the, I'll soon find out, I think one of the, I suppose, loveliest,

things, I think you've said, is just how that sense of not feeling you're working when you're, say, doing your radio show with Stuart McConey. And I think, really, that really is the absolute, that's a sign that you've absolutely found your thing. Isn't it? I suppose that's right. Yeah. I think that's true. And that show, perhaps more than anything else I've ever done, because Mark and Law was a bit like that, but we were still building and we were still kind of forging a reputation. Whereas if six music say, right, we've had enough. I mean, you know, I did last number of years and I enjoyed that. And then they said, right, we're having a change now.

And you're off. I said, yeah, okay, fine. You know, it's like I've done it for 20 or years. I mean, fine. Time to write book too. Et vu, Kamopapapu in Paris. Yeah. I mean, nothing lasts forever, does it?

And so I think that, you know, that's... We're going to cross, Mark. Yeah, okay. I think that's fine, you know. Oh, wait. There's a taxi company. me? You know, I think that that's fine for things to come to an end. I think that sometimes there's an art, isn't there, of knowing, of quitting while you're ahead, to use a cliche. And before it just

becomes sort of like scraping the barrel and dredging it out and it becomes a shadow of what it was that was great in the first. I think there's a knack to knowing when it's when it's enough. It's the Ricky Jervais's office. Yeah, which was just voted number of one program in the Sunday Times, wasn't it? Really? Of the last 25 years. Isn't that amazing?

After all these years, it's still... Yeah. Although the American one, and what was so clever was that, obviously it's sold to America, so the money's still rolling in, but he still kept, I suppose, that artistic and creative integrity

over his personal involvement in it. It's a work of genius, won't it? Yeah. It was a work of genius. Have you met him? I know, I've only... I have interviewed him, but it's been down the line.

So I feel like I'd like to know better. He's been on this podcast. Has it? Yeah. He's obsessed with dogs. Yeah. But then you know what, Mark? I think you're kind of obsessed with dogs. Oh, I am. Oh yeah. But I'm so I think that when I went to, you know, going through Frantin Italy, you realised

that people there seem to be kind of quite tolerant of dogs and quite like dog. The intense relationship seems to be a British thing. Do you think so? Yeah, between the Brits and their dogs. Do you mean the sort of emotional bond that we have? I mean, we're just so obsessed with our dogs, aren't we? Aren't we? I am. And... I feel like I love my dog more than a lot of humans.

Oh, without question. I love my dog more than some humans. I ought to love him more, I think. Do you ever find yourself doing things to your dog and thinking this is weird? I read my dog's stories sometimes. I read him some of your book. That's a bit weird. Was he impressed?

Not really. No, no. I was. Well, that's all right then, yeah. I'll settle for one out of two. I've disappointed greater percentages of audience than that in my time. So that's all right. I'll settle for 50%.

But no, it's... Do you do a dog voice, Mark? Do you do a dog voice? Well, I did the audio book for this. And he talks a bit quicker than me. He says, oh, we went past a load of old stones today. It was a load of rubbish. And, I mean, actually, I was channeling Paul Whitehouse doing that character in the fashion.

I'm cars, brilliant, isn't it, billion? Going to the park's brilliant. You can just walk on the grass and it's great. And I was sort of channeling that a bit, I think, when I did the voice. I hadn't really thought about it in a band. We did think about other people to do the voice of Arlo, but in the end we thought, well, it really is a conversation between me and me, even though I think it's a conversation

between me and him. And I genuinely do think it's a conversation between me and him because I genuinely do think I know what he's thinking. Yeah. And so to me, it's not a conversation. between me and me even though I've wrote both bits of it well I think it's such a beautiful book thank you very much and it really did inspire me to go traveling with my dog because we do we do a lot of staycations in the UK yeah mainly because I just worry about

I wouldn't take him on a plane and no you didn't you know you travel by car didn't yeah yeah but is Raymond a good traveler in the car well he loves the car yeah well you go then you think all dogs love the car because no a lot of them don't do they not no someone told the other dogs really hate electric cars that the buzz of the engines or the batteries really upsets them i don't know whether that's true or not oh no you've got this real lurcher quality when you sense a squirrel he's still he's still really really agitated isn't he do you think you like arlo in any way he's more handsome than me he's mellower than me and uh I think we're kind of attuned personality-wise without being the same.

Yes. You know, like all good double acts. Perhaps I'm his straight, ma'am. I don't know. I feel balanced with him, but I don't feel like I think he's more affectionate than me. Are you not very affectionate? No, I'm not. But you're not overly demonstrative?

I don't think I am really, no. I think maybe that's, I don't know why. Maybe if this is a terrible judgment. personalisation, please feel free to wrap me on the knuckles. But I wonder if that's quite a soft southern thing. Or maybe because I grew up in a... My mum was an actor and I grew up with theatre and TV people where everyone is darling, everyone is hugs.

And maybe are you not necessarily that kind of person? I don't think so really, no. Like I felt when I met you and I went to hug you in a very showbys way and you shook my hand and then I felt bad that I'd hugged you. Maybe I'd invade your space. He said... I know I'm very happy to hug people though that's great and I you know I do hug people I do hug you know people as a matter of course and like you know but um can we say

not an inappropriate way no yeah yeah of course not in a master chef way no no no oh god let's not get into all that but yeah um yeah I mean you know I don't think I'm I don't think I'm remotely cold but I don't think that I sort of like pro as I'm not prone to the big sloppy gesture I don't think. Well, I have to tell you, Mark Radcliffe, what a thoroughly lovely individual you are. I've loved our walk. Yeah, it's been great.

Have you enjoyed it? It's been great. Yeah, it's lovely. Thanks for having. It's been great. And Arlo, what a find. I mean, yeah. I think he's almost spoilt us.

We'd almost been nervous when he goes about getting another dog because I think is he, are we going to get another one as nice as Arlo? Are we going to get another Arlo? He's incredible. You know what? I would say about Arlo, he's got supermodel looks, but unusually a fabulous personality.

And let's be honest, the two things don't always go together. Yeah, absolutely right. He's got a zen like calm, except for when we see sprills, as you can testify. Everyone's got their cryptonite. Mark, congratulations on writing such a brilliant book. Et to Kevapoo, Kevich, I really recommend everyone reads, because it's just a thing of joy. Thank you so much.

Oh, that's great. Can I end by giving you a hug? Yes, of course. Come here. It's been great. Lovely to see you. Bye, Arlo. See you, Raymond.

Raymond's just sat on the pavement thinking, can we go home now? Can we get rid of these weird people? I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.