Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Matt Forde

Episode Date: December 28, 2018

Emily goes for a stroll with Matt Forde, along with Boost the Staffi and Gem the lurcher - two dogs that found a home with with Josie, the Dog’s Trust resident vet. Emily chats to Matt about his early years in Nottingham, his glass half full approach to life and she also persuades him to give us a burst of his legendary Donald Trump and Tony Blair impressions.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh my God. It's all going in the wash, isn't it? I suppose this is the reality of dog walking, isn't it? I know. I feel bad. He's got really nice shoes. Well, they've got them from TK. Max. This week on Walking the Dog, I went out for a stroll on Hampstead Heath

with the very wonderful comic Matt Ford. Matt loved the idea of working with the dog's trust, so we borrowed their dogs, Gem, a Lurcher, and Boost, a Staffie. I had a lovely time. with Matt. He's a very glass-half-full person, and a couple of hours with him feels like you've just had a shot of some fabulous sunshine and tequila. He even gave us a blast of his Tony Blair and a little bit of Donald Trump. You can catch Matt on Absolute Radio's rock and roll football every Saturday at 2pm, and he's on tour in 2019. For more info on that, please go to mattford.com. Also, do check out

at dogs trust.org.uk just to see some of the wonderful work that they do. And finally, rate review and subscribe. Here's Matt. I feel slightly nervous about being in control of a dog. Do you, Matt? Yeah, it's a big responsibility, isn't it? I don't imagine what it would be like to own one. I've lived with dogs before.

Have you? I've never owned one myself. Well, I was going to say we should introduce the dogs, but perhaps I should explain who I'm with. I'm with the very fabulous Matt Ford who I'm a big fan of I was going to describe you do you know I was going to call you a comic which you are

and I nearly said political comic and I stopped myself why you think it's too you think it slightly devalues me I do actually I've got to be honest I see you as someone with funny bones oh cheers mate I think you're naturally hilarious oh that's very kind

and when I say political comic I think bit smarmy crafted one-liners on a panel show. Yeah, a little bit... I mean, I can do that. I've got a pun for you about Brexit. Whereas I think of you as like, you're just funny in the room. Oh, cheers, right.

And it happens to be politics that you are interested in. Oh, that's very kind. I do try and be... You know, obviously that's the sort of comedy that I do live, but I do try and do other stuff. Because if you find all parts of life funny, it seems to just restrict yourself to one bit.

When you say political comedian, people do go, they think what you're really saying is a not very funny comedian. They're saying a, you know, a prick in a suit. Like you say, it's that kind of, well, and that was just the Environment Secretary. So, got any funny captions about this one, John? Brexit is like going to your aunt's house, all that sort of stuff. Oh, God, save me from this.

And that said, Brexit is like going to your nan's house. Should we introduce our dogs as well? Because we've got two dogs from the dogs trust today, Matt. We have beautiful dogs. I've got Boost. You've got Boost? Who is a staffy. And I have Gem, who is a lurcher.

And most beautiful, um, caramac coloured. Mine is, Gem is, is it Gem or Gem? Gem. Why don't you say Gem? You know why? Because of Gem Archer, who was in Oasis. And I always could never remember whether his name was Gem or Gem. But it's spelled Gem.

I don't think I've heard of anyone called Gem. Yeah. It's a very medieval. pronunciation. Yeah, yeah. So Matt actually was just talking to Josie, who is a vet for the Dogs Trust. She's like someone out of a rom-com with that sort of job. And these are her two dogs which were rehomes.

So, Matt, when I said we were doing this today, you were quite keen to have to work with the Dogs Trust or specifically, you know, dogs that have been rehomed because you didn't you use to sponsor one or you do one? I currently do sponsor a dog at the Dogs Trust, yeah, for the last year. last year, I was never, as a child, I was petrified of dogs. Seriously? Well, because I lived in a rough area, all the dogs were like, off the leash status dogs. So it was Rockweiler's Doberman, and they were all eating, you know, monosodium glutamate,

pumped full of tin food. You know, it was all like, they were rabid, mad beasts. And they were all biting people and jumping up and down. So it was my introduction to the world of dogs was brutal. And this is in Nottingham where you grew up. This was in Nottingham, yeah. And then my good friend John Richardson, who's a real lover of dogs, kind of got me into them.

And my girlfriend's a big dog lover. And actually, I'd never really experienced gentle dogs and cute dogs and small dogs, you know. So now, actually, I obviously was never a supporter of animal cruelty or anything like that, but I would never really consider myself that bothered about dogs and their rights and things. And actually, now, I think they're wonderful animals. And what dog is it? Well, it was a dog called Digby, but it's just been swapped to a new. dog which I thought meant that Digby had perhaps died but actually I think he has

genuinely been found the beginning back yeah he has found a new home I think he obviously you realise that a lot of the dogs have behavioural issues or whatever and probably some of them can't be it's very hard for them to find somewhere to live well it's also hard as dogs we've got a staffie and a lurcher today and people tend to there are real misconceptions about dogs, I think, certain breeds, you know. Staffies especially. Yeah, I think so. Actually, I want to talk about your

childhood, but I've taken us on to misconceptions, which means I have a question for you. Oh, God. Which is, what do you think is the biggest misconception about you? If people think staffies are aggressive and they're not, they're very gentle dogs, how do

how do people get you wrong? Because I'm going to tell you in a minute how I got you wrong. Oh, God. Well, I get two things I I think that I've noticed, and none of them really. bother me. One of them is people assume that I'm privately educated, which I think is very strange, but I think it's just because I wear a suit and talk about politics, and therefore people go, well, that's just what privately educate people do. Secondly, I think, judging by some of what I get on Twitter, and it's, you know, it's Twitter, say you have to take it with a

pinch of salt, but I think I've never considered myself to be particularly controversial or nasty or rude, but I think Twitter makes you realise that if you have any opinion, you really offend a lot of people. So sometimes when I meet people, they say, oh, I actually really nice or whatever, you know, thankfully. So I think sometimes people think because your politics are a particular way or because you're quite passionate about something, they assume that you're actually quite an unpleasant person.

And it's just a real lesson in life. I do a political show, I interview a lot of Tories. And people always say, you've got to stop having Tories on, because we really like them. And I'm not used to this feeling of seeing a conservative and feeling pleasantly about them. Humanising them. Humanising people, yeah.

So I tell you what I thought about it? Yeah, God, I'm worried. now, what are you going to say? Oh, God. When I first met you, I think I met you in Edinburgh. I want to say like four, maybe five, you know, five years ago. And I used to see you around at various places, and we had the same sort of management company. Yes.

I thought he's really laddie. Oh, really? Yeah. What, like a sort of football and beer? Yeah. And I thought... Yeah, I can see... I also thought you were really wealthy.

No way. Yeah. You're kidding. Yeah. And I thought he's probably got his dad's like a businessman. Do you know what I mean? Oh, that is so strange. Yeah.

So what would be... I saw you in sort of a mocked you to do with a swimming pool. No way. Yeah. That makes you sound like I was probably quite brash. No. I saw you as confident. But I think what was interesting is that what it often shows you,

and I'm fascinated by this, is this has everything to do with your misconceptions, nothing to do with the person. You project them on. to other people, don't you? Yeah, well, if I've reminded you of someone who was like that, then you think, oh well, he's like that prick I hated at school or whatever. Don't worry, this is a shit sandwich

because I'm getting to the bread now. And what I've now discovered, that was completely wrong. I got you so wrong. And I think... Can I ask, what made you think I was wealthy? Because I haven't got a posh accent. I think you carry yourself with a confidence.

Really? Yeah. It's so odd to that. I would project that because... And maybe because I'd perceived your politics to be centre, left or slightly, you know, right of left. I would have made assumptions based on that. I don't know it, but it was all my stuff. Wow.

Anyway, the point of me telling you this is that I think you're great and that's why I wanted you to do my podcast. Oh, I think you're great too, so this is very cool. Oh, how nice. So let's go back to Nottingham. Yes. And, oh, Booth's just going into the mud. You're brought up. It's your mum and your sister and you.

Yeah. And where's your dad at this point? So he's in Uganda. So him and my mum would split up and I think... He was genuinely in Uganda to be fair. But I think my mum said he's in Uganda as a way of not saying that, you know, we've split up or whatever. In a way, I think I was quite lucky because I only remember growing up with my mum and sister. So it wasn't like...

I think parents, I think families would go through divorce. I always thought it was harder for friends of mine because parents got divorced when they were used to having mum and dad both around. And then that norm is broken. Whereas if the norm is, you, your mum and your sister, then anything else is a weird sort of bonus. So then when I got to meet my dad and got to know him, then it was just like extra fun. And what was it like when you saw him that? How old were you when you saw your dad again?

I think maybe five or six. I remember being very excited. I remember the first time I clapped eyes on him, which is a very strange, obviously it felt normal at the time. But obviously it's quite odd to remember the day you make your dad. It's quite a cool thing. I was just so excited. You know, you find out you've got this extra family member that's your dad.

And obviously, we've written to each other and things like that. And then I just remember how thrilling in it was, really. I still remember sitting on the step on the streets. And the street I grew up on was very much like a... It's like the streets that are on the opening credits of Coronation Street. just rows to row terraced houses with yards out of the back that back onto yards

back onto another row of houses I just remember seeing him walking up the street I said I think I remember my mate's head I think that's your dad just sort of guessed it oddly it's funny the things you remember I remember I remember it's walking around Mark 1 the shop yeah

I think my sister wanted to buy something I can't really remember but I do remember specifically walking around Mark 1 in Nottingham That's quite a funny place to go for the reunion isn't it I think you're just kind of mooting about aren't you

And then obviously from then on it was very much weekend dad stuff every few months Burger King bowling the cinema that sort of stuff it was nice Did you still feel very much like it was a triumbrate

you know you your mum and your sister Oh yes yeah that's kind of the family unit You know I've talked to my dad about this And I think He's such a good bloke What does he do by the way again So he's now working out in He's out in Ethiopia

He works in public health. Booth just had some... Is that safe for dogs to drink puddles? He just had some muddy puddle, which I believe is a far and ball colour. Is that right? No way, you're kidding. I can never tell whether you're being serious or not.

It's true. But you're so much more sophisticated, so I would always defer to your knowledge. So go on. So he's now in Ethiopia. So he spent a year in Pakistan and now he's in Ethiopia, doing public health stuff.

So he's always worked in the NHS. And he's a very clever bloke. But it's more, and I've said this to him, and I don't think he takes offence at it. And I think he sort of, I mean, really, given how disastrous some people's relationships are with their parents, and particularly parents that weren't around, you know, could have...

I've counted myself very lucky. It's more like an uncle. I mean, he's definitely, you know, he is my dad, and I feel very, very close to him. But he never disciplined us. He was never there to tell us off. So he never went through the same formative experiences where he was a lot of,

authority figure. Obviously he's an authority figure because he's older than me and he's my dad and you have to recognise that, you know, not that I would be deferential but respectful of that. So really, it's just, I just think it's kind of, I think we got really lucky that we had a very, very good mum, who was a mum and a dad in very difficult circumstances. And then you get sort of like an extra dad. That's a lovely way to look at it though. Yeah, it's cool. And we all get on, which is good. I suppose if he was a permanent presence in your life and he made You know, he saw you throughout that period. As soon as he came back, he was back in your life, was he?

Or was he in, did he pop in and out? Well, he lived in Coventry and we lived in Notting. So he'd see each of the fairly regularly. Yeah. We meet up every Christmas now. And he's a good laugh. I've got a lot in common with him. He's very likable.

Not that I'm saying that about myself, but the way I feel about him, he's very likable and an open person and interested in lots of different things and can basically talk and get on. with anyone. Tell me about your mum then. Well she's an incredible person really because she was a nun she was a nun for I think it was like 15, 20 years before she had me, which obviously makes it sound like she was up to no good in the final year of the confident and got pregnant, you know,

but she left first and then she became a nurse and that's how she met my dad. Well when I interviewed you recently an absolute radio gig and I described her in a way that shocked it a bit, which I'll return to but we've just got a bit of a face off they've got such ferocious Gemies absolutely avoiding the Hello schnauzer They're like an old granddad

Hello Is it a friendly dog That was definitely a kind of dog A dog version of small man's syndrome Do you think so? Yeah because there was a bit of looking And then it was only when we walked off It started barking

I like the sound of your mum I interviewed you once about your mum and I described her as a nun who broke bad that's what I think of her yeah that's really funny she just decided she wants she there wasn't a life for her

yeah I think it's a fascinating insight because obviously you choose that life and it's vocational but it is very sparse and obviously a whole load of discipline and the way she'd describe it to me

was almost like it sounded like she'd been in prison for 15 years To some extent, I mean, she loved it, and she's travelled the world with it. She's been in America, as well as across the UK. So I think it had given her a lot, but in the end. The common could be a difficult place, really. I think there can be bullying and cliques there. I think people presume just because people are, well, maybe perhaps less so now,

but because people are religious and dedicated, that it's all very spiritual and nice, but it's harsh. So she left, and she retained Christianity. You brought up religious. Yeah, but not in a So there's an altar boy at a Church of England Church which was just the nearest one So we ended up going to this church in Stanton in Nottingham

that's still there I quite liked it in a way Because it'd make you feel good I mean I'm an atheist now so But the discipline of it is rewarding But I was an awful altar boy I was sick on the altar once And I just haven't had any breakfast

I puked all over the altar as a car kids. It's very embarrassing. And then obviously, as I suppose a lot of people do, once you start thinking for yourself a bit, it does become, I mean, that's a crucial point, I think, teens, as anyone who's religious, who doesn't find it in later life, if you're growing up with your parents, Christianity or any religion, once you start picking holes in it, I mean, there's something really thrilling about, you realise you're starting to think for yourself, but then the world does come crashing down a little bit. You stop believing in Santa. And then you stop believing in God and you think,

crick you all the things have been told. Better get into politics where you can trust people. But into politics, yeah, absolutely. I wonder, I wonder how much that I never thought before whether that came from there, whether that was a kind of substitute religion. Is it a replacement ideology in a way? Well, so I suppose it's a set of values, isn't it?

Do you remember being funny when you were growing up? Did you have a sense of holding a room, making people laugh? was a currency for you? Not very young. It was very nervous. Oh my God, there's like a... Oh my word. I don't think you've ever seen so many dogs together all in one place. Matt, what's...

Should we describe the scene? I thought it was almost like a fox on it. But there's so many different dogs. I would say there's about... How many would you say, Matt? This is going to kick off, isn't it? 15. Oh, this is going to be a fucking nightmare.

I mean, some of them are frolicking. Is that a dog fight? So there's about 20 dogs there? Would you say more, maybe, There's a whole load. What do we do? What's the protocol? What do the dogs just say about this? Oh, there's a couple of that poodle is, uh, it's all the small ones that are angry, isn't it? How dare you? We're getting a lot of attention over here.

Oh, did you? She wasn't talking to Matt, by the way. Where they go again? The Love Island Shih Tzu's. Oh, my God. He's really trying to pin her down, isn't he? No, they're both male. No way.

He's absolutely, you see. You normally has to walk around the corner. Oh, I thought they were trying to have sex. She's trying to fight. He can't talk about misread the signals. My God, what's that say about me? I like that poodle, because that's got, I call that astronaut's wife hair. You know the perm that the astronaut's wife always had?

You don't see it so much these days. Oh, the Samoids, the standout, stunner for me. What would you say? Oh, I like the little scruffy terrier type thing. I like scruffy dogs, I can see that. Little raggy. Oh, I tell you what was really nice then was when they were all really. running round, yeah.

Gem sort of stood close to me, almost from protection there. Well, that's how I read it anyway. Oh, didn't want to look. Do you know, Jen was very classy throughout that whole business, wasn't she? You didn't get involved in any of it. No. And she had a lot of them going round a bomb. The little ones were really mad for it, weren't they?

Yes. I was asking you about being funny and getting that sense of currency and holding the room. When were you first funny? I don't know. Oh my God, I got no idea. I mean, I was quite nervous as a primary school child. I was bullied quite a bit. I had a really bad X-ma on my face, which didn't help.

And we lived in an area. I think this really had quite an effect on me politically, oddly, rather than emotionally, perhaps, was that the people bullying us at school were also, like, bullying the rest of the community as well. And, like, we're getting burgled and things like that. And it was just the claustrophobia. of your home not being safe. But there'd be no respite.

I mean, also, it was a very happy place and everyone knew each other and there was that warm working class community. But there's an experience of crime and how, like, two or three families can really destroy an area. That's never really left me, and I just think, as a result, I was quite nervous.

And still now I'm hyper alert on a night out. Can always sense danger. I remember seeing Shane Meadow say, if you grew up in a rough area, You can always tell when a fight's going to start. And I can always spot it earlier than some of my friends. You can just sort of see the conditions starting to coalesce. So I'm very high-belo.

Did you ever have incidents then when you were sort of jumped by guys? Oh, God, yeah. Like on the park, people trying to beat you up. And then just the normal stuff that then people go through. I remember some guy pulling a knife on me on a night out. What did you do? Legged it. Pegged it up the road.

And there was a girl and a guy. and she was on my course at university and I was just screaming, he's got a knife, and then they then ran up the road with me and they lived on that street. And they were going to let me in and then her boyfriend changed mine and said, I don't want to need trouble in the house.

She's like, he's going to get stabbed. But this insane argument where this guy with the knife is literally coming at me and this bloke's not going to let me in his house to stop me getting stabbed. They eventually let me in. It was really bad luck, so I kept on their sofa that night

and then went back to my flat in the morning and I'd been burgled as well. Really bad luck. Yeah, it was really bad. So I wasn't really, I think, so that made me quite a nervous child really. And then it was sort of secondary school where I got a bit more confident. And then I remember realizing I could impersonate a few people, which was quite an easy way into showing off.

And then did a school talent show where I impersonate some of the teachers. And then from then on, kind of thought, oh, actually. But I wasn't some great show off as a kid, I don't think. It's interesting that, because when I interviewed Matt Lucas, That was his first inciting incident moment, I suppose, was impersonating teachers. Oh, wow. And I remember him saying he sat there and he said, I just remember there were these kids and I suddenly started and people were laughing.

And I thought, oh, this is good. I don't know. This is great. I can do this. It's interesting, isn't it, that sort of early foray into satire, you know, which is essentially what you're doing. Of course, yeah. You've got a real talent for that, though, Matt. fact that you're a good mimic and you're good at observation.

Did that make you think maybe I could do something with this? Or did you just like doing it and think, I'll be funny in the pub? From then on, I felt quite driven, oddly. So I did my first stunt gig when I was 16. We were pub in Nottingham. 16 is young. Yeah, and then dabbled a bit. I never really went at it, but it was always just doing it on the side.

I mean, obviously everyone can remember times at school where they were showing off and it went badly or whatever, you know. So I still occasionally memories will resurface of going too far. But I don't think, I really hope I wasn't that sort of kid. I remember going to, I remember auditioning for, it was the thing called the Central Junior Television Workshop and it provided so many people went through it, people like Vicki McClure and Andrew Schimm and people like that.

And auditioned and was dreadful because I was too nervous. But I remember being in the queue and all these kids were like, yeah, they'd like grade three tap. And I genuinely thought it went. I thought they were talking about furnishings, about kitchen. I had no idea. I just realised there's this whole world of that sort of kid. And obviously I was very different to them.

But you wanted to perform? Yeah, definitely comedy. Which surprises me, because you don't seem very damaged. And I think most people that want to perform, there is a little bit of damage there. I think there is. I think in a way that's become a cliche. And then I think as a result, it's attracted people who think, oh, well, I should do that then.

And also, I think that line of work damages people and life damages people along the way anyway. So if you don't go in damaged, it can sometimes come out damaged. I never saw it as therapy. I never thought, I've got to talk. And I don't really do that sort of comedy. I just really like showing off and making people in that arena. You know, I'm not some permanent,

although actually some of my friend say I do their head in, I'm a bit of a pest. just relentlessly wringing him up fast in about. So you did a stand-up gig at 16? Yeah, it wasn't very good. And it wasn't good? No, but I loved it.

I kind of knew. I knew I wasn't quite doing it right, but I sort of felt I was on the right track. But then you went into politics at 16. Is that right? I think I joined the Socialist Work Party when I was 14 and left when I was 14 and two weeks. I left after like a 40.

night. It was hell in there. Was it? Such angry people. And, and this is very relevant now given what's happening with labour and things. I'd come from, in that group of people, and I was by far the youngest, I'd do with people in the 30s and 40s, who, some of them were kind of working class, a couple of middle class people. I'd had by far, economically,

the tougher start. I was already to the right of them, and they couldn't see why some of them. from my background wouldn't be a full-on communist. So that was a really early lesson. And that's something that's kind of playing out out now where white working

class people really aren't that bothered about Corbyn, I don't think. It's funny that political thing, isn't it? Oh, Matt. Oh God, we're going through. Absolutely. I feel bad for you because you've got really nice clothes on. They're not... It's good exercise, isn't it? I can do a bit of a Jay-Z and just throw them away.

You know, he just throws them away after which wear. I threw a pair of trainers away once and it gave me such a pang of guilt. Did it? They were finished. What I did, I went to a shop and bought a new pair of trainers and just walked them out of the shop and then just put the others in the bin. I feel like I was such a decadent Western fool. Are you careful with money?

Yeah, I save a lot. I always pay my bills. Yeah. When I was a student, got myself into a lot of debt. Did you? Yeah, like credit card debt and stuff like that. So I'm really, if I go overdrawn now, I'm petrified. Quit.

Oh, Jesus. Come here. I'm a strangled poor, poor gem, sorry. Matt's gone into some... I was slipping all over the place. I was going to say Quicksand, but on the radio show I do with Frank Skinner, I think we did a texting, which was whatever happened to Quicksand.

Yeah, well, it was... It disappeared. It was so fashionable, and now... It's got our vogue now. I had a real fear of Quicksand as a kid, and I lived nowhere near the beach, but it just... It was in so many dramas and comics, and it felt like it must have been a...

God, this is really hard to walk across, isn't it? I've made a terrible choice. Right, what we need to do Let's get onto a nice hard path We need to get onto the path And then we need to try and do a ride This is so bad We're just going to have to go up this

Oh my God It's all going in the wash Isn't it? I suppose this is the reality Of dog walking, isn't it? I know I feel bad He's got really nice shoes

Well, they've got them from TK Max Talk about being good with money My biggest expense It's probably like eating and drinking out. That's my treat. Clothes is something that you wear out

and then have to replace. I don't, I'm not into clothes at all. I'm just like, I wear these until they go. Yeah. You know, to the holes in the shoes or to the gusset goes. I'm quite fascinated by that because having worked in fashion,

I think men often have that idea that I'm not affected by fashion, I just put things on. Yeah. And there is a rather brilliant speech in Devil Wears Prada. where she says, you think you're not affected by fashion. You think you're wearing that blue jumper.

That blue jumper is because four years ago, Saint Laurent showed that in his collection. Yes. That then filter. And it's this brilliant speech in the same way that when people say they're not affected by politics. Yes. You know, that sense that... Of course. Oh, I'm not voting.

Does that upset you? If someone says, I don't vote, there's no point. What do you think to that? I always feel, and I know I shouldn't, I just feel slightly less of them. I just think, if you can't be bothered... Do you know what I mean? And even in the sort of dull, normal political waters of the end of the new labour area,

you just think, how can you not give a toss-waters to your community or to your country? Yeah. I think that's really odd. Although oddly now, I kind of understand it because people are so exhausted with it all. Matt, look, what's happening? What boost?

What does boost for them do? Are they allowed in? Are they? Should we let them in, Matt? You let them in the water? Do you want to go in? Oh, man. Matt, you can throw a stick at the table.

I'm not going to throw it at the dog. We're going, right, so this is Hampstead Heath Pond and I don't want a dog drop. Yeah. But we went in here with Dynamo's dog. Wow. Yes. This is his favourite pond, so shall we take the lead off? And that's taking the lead off.

Yeah. Shall I take the lead off for Gem as well? Shall I? She won't go in there. I'm going to throw this in. Is it fair on the dog to throw it into the water? We're sort of making it do something, aren't we? This is like bullying, isn't it?

Right, here you go. Straight in there. Good dog. Wow. Wow, I'll tell you what, if it was warmer I'd have gone in. I love water. Should she throw it again, Matt? Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is great fun, isn't it?

Oh, there's another... She's legged off with it. Oh, don't take it. Bring it back. Why, God. Is she going to bring it? She's going to bring it. Oh, she's going to bring it.

Oh, hey up. Jenny's getting involved now. Aren't they gorgeous dogs? Aren't they lovely? You can hear that splashing. That's boost going. She's going in far. Look at that, man.

The water looks really clean. well, doesn't it? Oh, look at how swimming, man. Wow. So dogs don't have swimming, I was obviously stupid, didn't say, but they just instinctively can swim in a way that humans can't. I understand why those people go for those swims on Christmas Day and things. Yes, yeah, the people who live by the seaside.

Yeah. Why does she keep going up there? Keeps going up with a hill with it. It's protecting the high ground. She's a master of war strategy. It must have just been dog's blood, isn't it? They're fighting animals. See, when you say that war strategy,

do you think. Why I like spending time with you, Matt, is I think you're a bit like Wikipedia. Oh, God, inaccurate. No. I think you're passionate about history and you're passionate about what has happened as well and you're interested in those links as opposed to, for example, you know people that? Oh, I don't know that. I wasn't born. Yes. You would never say that. Yes, Matt, because you wouldn't do that with musical. You start when people say black and white films are boring or... Yeah.

I was in Johnny Cash as a kid. See, that's quite unusual. It's like, why into Johnny Cash? I was like, it sounds really good. Because that was the 80s, so... Yeah. Late 80s, early 90s, I was dragging into Johnny Cash before I got into Oasis.

Should we take her off the lead, Matt, do you think? Is that legally allowed? Yeah, I think so. Let's take a while. Okay, let her off, yeah. Okay, because I want to go back to you getting into politics. So you decided that... You joined a socialist worker party, but... I used to go, like, flyposting in Nottingham and stuff like that.

Going on marchers. When did you start working? for the Labour Party. Is that after university? So I started volunteering for a local Labour MP called Nick Palmer in Brockstow. And then that just opened up. I was like, oh my God, what I find really sad about a lot of the way that politics has conducted is that it seems like a very exclusive, closed community

where actually it's very open. Yeah. And to be fair, to all political parties, they're desperate for people to come and join them and get involved. And, you know, it is almost like joining a scout group or going to with Churchill, you know, it scratches that itch where you're part of a group of people that

I was going to say, you know, with the Labour Party broadly agreed the same thing. It turns out that was the case. You all want to make the world a better place. You've got a genuine you're involved in a pursuit that can actually affect it. I mean, that was what I just thought was incredible. And I worked for the Labour Party.

I was like, I've come from Stenton from a working class background, from a single-parent family, and I can get involved in this. this and like be a cog in a wheel that helps improve the country helps improve the world. It felt so open to me. And yet people think that it's this, you know, minority pursuit for people from a particular background. And to some extent, sadly, that's true because so many people from rarefied backgrounds end up

getting to the top of it. It is when you generally look at Tory cabinets, isn't it? It has been traditionally. I know there are attempts to change that, you know. I mean, even the Labour Party, you know, it's over-representation. of posh white lokes. Did you do politics at university? Do politics at university.

I was just totally obsessed. I mean, completely. Were you going to be an MP? No, I don't think so. What were you going to do then, being Alistair Campbell? I thought it was really inspirational to have a Labour government at that age.

I was 14 when they got elected. And obviously, it was... There's been a lot of revisionism about Blair because of Iraq. Yeah. But it was mega popular at the start. And it just felt like... I remember the 80s.

I remember... how crap life was. And the tone of politics and life at the time was very divisive, and certainly comes from the background that I came from, you know, people on benefits. And if you think the environment's bad now, I think it was a lot worse back then.

Matt, I'm sorry, but I've taken us down a funny way. I'm slightly worried that the ducks... I mean, at night, this would be the scariest place to be, wouldn't it? Hampstead Heath at night. How do we get Gem back? Can we get Jim? Gem! So well behaved.

Look at Jim on the hurdle. Just immediately. I legitly came. So, yeah, so I get that sense of you. You were passionate about it. Loved it. But you got into comedy. Why did you move into comedy then?

I remember, so I worked for the party, and then I worked as a political advisor in local government. I went to work. This is going to sound so boring, but I was so excited by it. After London got mayoral government elected, because you had old-style mayors across the UK, you know, the ceremonial chain-wearing mayors.

Well, there's a 70. child. Of course. I mean, I was obsessed by the mayor. The mayor would turn up in a car. Lord Mayor's show was like a huge deal. Oh, that's a massive thing in London. Huge. But, you could now have elected mayors, which was one individual elected by the whole city

to run it. And 12 cities outside of London decided to adopt that model. Stoke-on-Trump was one of it. And it had gone off massively. But I would always rather go to where it's tough and difficult. because that's where you've got most, you know, you learn more and you've got the most opportunity to actually do something, I think.

So I went to work for the elected mayor of Stoke, who, in very much a microcosm of what's happening now, he was centre-left. The local party was very, very hard left, and they were trying to get rid of him. And Stoke was the only city to have a referendum to adopt this new model of government, and then six years later have another referendum to get rid of it.

So I was working for him throughout this period where this referendum was going on. and it was absolute carnage. I mean, some of the things I saw, so much of it doesn't get reporting, it's incredible. So he was a phenomenal bloke called Mark Meredith. I still see him now, really inspirational bloke, tons of a young man, set up his own business, you know, done well,

goes into politics, been labour all his life, and he was gay, and he would get, so we'd go to public meetings, and literally thousands of people were turning up. But some people would be homophobic to him during the meetings and say, oh, have you got kids? Because then he was gay and didn't have children. and then people would laugh at him and stuff like this.

Not many people, but enough for it to really piss me off. It seems to me that you don't to take care of yourself, and that was something that you admired in others, that concept of justice as well. Yeah. What's kicking off? Oh, God, what do we do if he kicks off? You just said learning stick up yourself,

and I'm absolutely shat it at the moment of a dog. Oh, it's a magpie. I mean, it's so much different when you're the one walking the dog, because otherwise I just walk through here and dogs bark quite a minute. And now I feel really responsible for what you. Do you? I can't even killing magpies. Will you feel...

You don't want that on the podcast, do you? Look at that big white one. Oh my God. I mean, the size of some dogs. I mean, I admire people, but having them in the house. There's turds as well, like... It's like a polar bear's body bit with a dog's head. It looks like the ghost of a dog, isn't it?

A Russian wolf home. Wow. What's he called? Kubla. Kubla. Like Kubla Khan. Kubla. Kubla.

Kubez. Kubez. I'm like, I know. That's what she can. Like you play so far it? Kubla Khan. That was, uh, I don't want to say, a really ugly dog. What, Kubla?

Yeah, I wasn't into that at all. And it looked silly, so it was like good fun, but I was just like, there's something not wrong about. I almost felt sorry for it. for it. It looked like an experiment, didn't it? What if people have this conversation when they leave me? Come out of a lab. They're not going to have that conversation, are they? So you got into, you did your, you've done a stand at me, you left politics.

Yeah. Because you decided. So I would start doing a thing at Edinburgh with a good palomime John Richardson. That was it. And we would muck up, we did a show we just mucked about, that's like a panel show called On Heat, which was just a really, really. just an excuse for us to fart ass about for a month in Edinburgh. So I was using my annual leave to do that.

I just thought, this is so much more fun. It was more satisfying. It was a lot less stressful than working in politics. And I just thought, I need to get myself, if I can to a position where I can give up the day job. So I moved to London, started working as a lobbyist for a quango. I then got a job on Talk Sport doing overnight radio,

which meant I could jacking the day job and then basically concentrate on comedy, comedy writing and performing. Yeah. I was one of it's doing a radio show. So I was just very lucky that I didn't have to go through any hardship, giving up a day job and then scratching around. I was able to...

You could all support yourself? Transition, yes. And did you just think this is it now? I love this. Absolutely love it. I mean, every gig, I don't think there's any... I mean, obviously, like any job, there are times where you want to do it more than you don't.

You know, there are days when you think, oh, God, I wish I didn't have to do that tonight. But the moment you're on, I mean, it's such a phenomenal feeling. We did that gig the other week at the Palladium for Absolute Radio that we're both at. I'm at the Palladium and it's full and it's amazing. What an incredible rush of the novelty of it. Actually, I mean obviously that's like a novelty doing a gig like that. But even when it's like 10 or 15 people and a new material night,

the thrill of during the day thinking of something funny and then saying it that night and people laughing. It's incredible. And I went to see your gig recently, which is your tour, which I think is going to be happening in 2019. You're going to be continuing it. And it's called Brexit through the gift shop. That's right.

Honestly, I was blown away by how brilliant it was. It's a fantastic show. I'd heard it was good because Frank Skinner, who I do a radio show with, had seen it, I think, in Edinburgh. He had, and he was very, very kind, which meant a great deal. But, I mean, that's one of the things where I think sometimes in comedy and stuff like that, you have to be cool about stuff. And in life, you know, meet with triumph from disaster and treat the two impostors just the same. That's just a good rule for life, I think.

Sometimes, I mean, Frank's going to come into seeing me and then being so kind afterwards. Genuinely was like a moment because I'd idolized him for so long. And then obviously in comedy, you end up sometimes meeting or working with people that you grew up watching. and it's so surreal. I don't think you ever fully get used to it. There's always a party going, it's Frank Skinner. And he knows who I am,

and he's coming, he likes it. Was he a real hero of yours? Oh, massively. Massively. Fantasy Football League, I think, one of the best telly shows, and it had a real effect on me. And I think a lot of the stuff that me and John Richardson have done together,

we've always said at the back of my mind, fantasy football league is basically the thing you're trying to replicate, that great mix of two funny friends. and it's feeling very warm and welcoming. But really, two really funny people making a really funny telly show. You've met a lot of heroes because you met Tony Blair. You've interviewed him a few times.

I have, yeah. He doesn't get the best press, Tony Blair, does he? No. I always think, I mean, I totally understand why people disagree with him over Iraq, although he won an election after it with the majority that no Prime Minister since has been able to get near. I saw you interview Tony Blair. It was on your show on Spine, I know you interviewed him. for the political party, which is a podcast that you do. It's so funny, whenever you do your impression of him,

because he says, oh yes, my kids say, well, you do sound like that. It's one of my favourite moments, actually. Whenever I ask you to do those impressions, Matt, I am a bit naughty, I'll say do your trump. I know, in an office, it's awkward because you go, what? Do you have to just wheel it out, don't you? Do you?

Do you mind doing it? No, on the whole, no. The thing is, on the audio image, you don't get the feeling. walk. If we were going on a box, just telling you could describe maybe whether, which dogs we've got and where we're going now. Well, we have two delightful dogs, gem and boost. And walking around Hampstead Heath, I think, you know, what you realise,

firstly is that how refreshing it is to be outdoors, to be around, particularly in central London, have a sense of a green space. A man just walked past with a buggy Middle of a park in a Tony Blair impression or someone walks past It's like some of the most secluded land in London Yes it's right to come here and enjoy it

And I think that's the great thing about London You have of course the metropolis In the sense of architectural history And a lot of it Imperial and the rest of it On top of that these wonderful green spaces And yes it's right to protect them by the way And we did.

I don't know whether he did or not. Donald Trump's just come in. What do you think of Hampstead? Is this your first time in? What do you think of the UK? Well, I got to say, I think it's beautiful. And I got to say, it's very small compared to my garden. Very small, but it's beautiful.

Are there any dogs you don't particularly like Donald? Are you a dog fan? Because I know you think some of them are terrible people. Well, you know what? A lot of dogs are angry and they have a right to be because of what Hillary did. And whenever I hear people saying, a Doberman attack me or a rat whiter bit my child,

I said, well, it's probably a bomber's fault because they wouldn't be angry. They would not be angry if he had done a proper job. And you can't blame the doubt for that. I'm not even so that sounded like it. Oh, it really did. It's one of those awkward things. You know, sometimes I'll do it.

It's so good. And it won't sound like the person. When I saw your show, and I just thought it was so brilliant. And I loved it because I know that you are really passionate about politics as well. You know, and I don't get the sense of you just standing up there thinking, oh, this will work. Do you know what you mean? There is an element of you feeling involved and engaged. And I think you come across on stage as, I would say, a very unerotic performer.

A very what? Unerotic performer. I think it's just unerotic. I was like, well, I mean, and I would agree that that would be a good thing. I wouldn't want to be erotic. It's because you're still in Trump mode. Yeah, that's what it is. So you're thinking of...

I'm very erratic. Unerotic in that... You know, you've watched some people performing some comics and you feel it's great and you're on a ride. I would guess like Jim Carrey, it's like, oh my God, but it can be overwhelming sometimes in a great way, but it's like a roller coaster thing. I feel with you, I feel I get the best of both worlds

because it's funny and I feel taken on your journey, but I feel fundamentally you're not troubled and there's no darkness. No, I don't feel like we've got any darkness. You know, sometimes, I don't know if anyone else ever thinks this. Sometimes I just think, not the only normal person, but the most normal. I just think... Do you?

I think I don't really have... You know, any anxieties I have are ones that you would ordinarily have because of, you know, the night before recording something or, you know, before going on stage at Edinburgh thinking, oh god I hope this is finished you know the things that would that your environment would naturally make you nervous or anxious or worried about I don't really I don't feel like I've got any baggage or any do you get angry over though Matt you lose your temper oh watching football yeah livid men often say that oh man oh god yeah it's really

irrational and awful swear words do you think maybe football is a channel through which you can lose your temper oh and football There's a channel for a lot of things, yeah. I mean, there's no doubt that it's a forum that gives you a lot of hope, a lot of anger, a lot of joy, periods of intense delight. So have you ever got depressed? Have you ever gone through a phase when you thought, I'm not happy? No, I mean, obviously there are times where you feel better than others,

but I wouldn't, I just, I don't think it would be deeply disrespectful to people who have depression to say that about felt depressed. There are times I just think, you know, just the normal anxieties of life. The thing is you can never have it all at the same time, can you? You're always going to have some, if you're not worrying about your career, you're worrying about a relationship, or you're worrying about a family or whatever. So I'm very lucky that all the people I care about are fit and healthy, that I've got very good friends, very good relationship, very good family.

So then you just think, well... Well, I see you as kind of settling... You met your girlfriend a bit ago. Yeah. I mean, we won't say too much about her, because it's private, but I think you seem quite sorted and centered. Is that fair enough? I feel like it. I mean, I have to say as well, I think, compared to friends in comedy,

and a lot of them really suffer at all ends. There's some really anxious people out there, and I guess that's what you're driving at, I suppose. There's a lot of comedians that are quite. A lot of people that are... Life is very difficult for people. Why isn't it for you? I think I'm naturally optimistic. And I think...

This is going to sound so like choosing American. I think life is absolutely amazing. And obviously I would because I live in the West, right? But I didn't come from the privilege. The privilege that I had really was very lucky to have had a very good mother. And that really was better than any financial start in life. Yeah. The discipline and love of a good parenting is really the best start you can give a child.

That is the best. Because then everything else comes from that. And obviously you have bad luck, you have ups and downs or whatever. But I just think, I wake up and I was so excited. I can't... The worst part of the day for me is going to sleep. I'm like, I'm fucking hell, man. I know I've got to do it,

but get up tomorrow and do something else. And obviously there were days where you're hung over or you feel sick or whatever, and you have slightly less energy. But I just always feel like I've got loads of energy for stuff. Not necessarily physically. I couldn't run a mile now. Do you think... I could jog a mile, maybe.

You've got a lot of natural serotonin. Definitely. I just know that I would do my friend's heads in, really. I constantly wanted to do something. If you leave a room and your friends were talking about you... Yeah. You probably happily close that door and don't ever imagine what goes on, and you would assume, oh yeah, they're just saying, isn't Matt Gray?

Well, not necessarily that. I would think, but I would be comfortable with whatever my negatives were, I think. I know what my problems are. What do you think they would say your negatives are? If someone was talking and they said, the thing about Matt, he can be a bit... Much. I think that's what they'd say. It can be a bit much.

and sometimes a mate of mine, Johnny sometimes calls me a mitherer like if there is something doing my head in so the state of politics or whatever I will go on about it a bit not in a kind of student politics way but it will crop up in conversation

and that's probably a bad thing I'm loud I do generally pester people to watch and my girlfriend always says always showing me like Stuart Pierce's top 10 goals on YouTube for like, Paul Gascoid's crazy. She was like, it's really cool that you're into it,

and your energy definitely makes me more likely to get into it, but I'm not into it. And I have to sometimes appreciate that, that even though I'm really excited about something, not everyone feels the same way. And my enthusiasm might make them inclined to have a look, but they're not going to feel the same way that I do about it, about Oasis, about football,

and about certain political speeches. I mean, I will wake up, usually after a night out. of like an iPad that's flopped on my chest while I fall in sleep and it'll be, you know, Neil Kinnock's speech to the Labour bike conference.

I mean, literally, Tony Blair's 2006 speech, we're halfway through it. I like that. Because I think it subverts people's expectations. My favourite thing I ever did was reading a copy of Gandhi's My Experiments with Truth

while listening to Britney Spears' album and I was on a train in India. Great. And I thought, no, I like this because I can do both. Yes. I remember I had a lovely one. It was just almost a nice bit of wordplay.

I was reading Bird Song by Sebastian Fulks and Songbird by Oasis came off. I'm reading Bird song and I'm listening to Songbird. Yeah, and now you do, we should say you do a show, we're talking about football. Yeah. And you do a show called Rock and Roll Football on Absolute Radio. Oh, I love it so much. Which I love.

Oh, we need to put the dogs on the lead now. Gem. You want to call your dog, please, Matt. Gem! This is like a reality show. Benton. Come on. Yeah, so rock and roll football.

I was really excited when I heard you doing that show because I think you talk about football in a really intelligent, funny way. Oh, wow. When I listen to that show, I think, no, that's how football should be talked about. It's kind of insightful, but you're gently taking the piss as well a lot of the time.

Yeah, well, football culture is really funny. Yeah. One of the things that really makes me laugh about. In football, I think people miss a lot of the time. Well, it's the fantasy football league thing, isn't it? That made it really accessible. And really, when I hear people talk about tactics and that, I enjoy the insight, but it makes me very bored. I go to football to bounce around and see goals and see mates and be silly.

And that's the attraction, not sort of chin stroking about diamonds in midfield and, you know, playing three at the back and all that sort of thing. So that's the pleasure I get from it. And if you go to football regularly, one thing you realise is so many people have this view that football is basically hooliganism. Yeah. Most football fans are quite nerdy, quite bookish. There's a kleptomania involved in it. They're just people who, you know, there's a Star Wars. There's almost like a comic con.

They're those sorts of people. They want to get autographs. They want to get, you know, they're closer to Doctor Who fans and Star Wars fans than they are to like the EDL, really. Most of them are that way. But I'm interested in what you were saying, Russell Howard, that to me. I said, when do you get angry? And he said, oh, football. Yeah. But it's a bit like dogs to bring us back to the dogs.

I think dogs are useful to talk about the thing you don't want to talk about. Okay. So it becomes... Do you know what you mean? Everyone focuses on the baby or dog in the room. It's a great icebreaker. It's a great icebreaker. It's amazing. So my girlfriend comes from a Celtic family and her dad's a massive football fan.

You just find a Celtic. And just meeting your girlfriend's parents, obviously, for the first time. However wonderful they are, it's sort of slightly nerve-wrack in the first time. Yeah. But to be able to just talk about football all the time just immediately means there's no awkwardness. And you don't just have to talk about Celtic and Forest. You can talk about Marino getting fired.

Or, you know, and it allows you. What's great about, I think, and not just football but sport, allows you to explore, in the same way that literature does for people, allows you to explore moral questions. Should divers be punished? It's really about, are you comfortable with people who cheat getting away with it? Should the rules apply? How forceful should rules be? You know, really, without being standing like Ed Minaband,

like your views on VAR might well reflect your views on how predicated you are to, like, authoritarianism and things like that. Can we use that for the trail, please? You can learn a lot about, you know when people say, oh, if Suarez played for you, you wouldn't have a problem with him? I absolutely would. I would. I would. People never believe you in this. I hate players, Zah. There's talent's not an excuse to biting people and being racist. It drives me mad. And that's another thing.

People assume that all football fans basically are fine with, infidelity, biting, racism and all that, and they're not. And you sort of feel a certain amount of responsibility to show. Matt, I want to ask you, I'm going to take us for some coffees now. What do you think of political correctness? I know that's probably another hour and a half? You know what, in a weird way? I think in the last five or so years, the meaning has slightly changed.

So I think overall, I completely agree with it, because political correctness really is just another phrase of manners, in it? You know, it's right that you can't, yeah, exactly. It's right that you can't be offensive about people anymore. I think there's definitely a difference between political correctness and people wanting to be sensitive and wanting to be offended. Yeah. I'm not an offensive comic, so it's not really something.

Well, we'll be the judge of that. You're not. It's not a problem that I often have. This is lovely, isn't it? Isn't it nice? Do you know much about Kimwood? Nothing at all. I'm ashamed to say, I should have googled it, not mentioned it, and then made it look like I was really well read.

Oh, you know Kenwood, it's 1645, is that right? Do you want to shake some cake with you? I'll have a minute to buy. Oh, thank you. It seems like that we're here, yeah. Huh? I know. It's been recorded, mate. What's the gone, though? It's a bit annoyed with it. It's nice.

What's going, Matt? I've got the impression in that tea bar with that man, you see. I saw another little side to you, I haven't seen. Oh, what? Agie. No, not Aggie. I think you worry about upsetting people. Oh, God, yeah. Bloody hell. Are you a people, please, then?

I don't, not in a sycophantic way, but I would never like the idea that I'd upset someone. Yeah. Or that I made them feel bad. What I didn't know, it was, I felt like they were making us feel awkward for being in there. And you just didn't, you've set up a cafe, and we are buying stuff. I don't understand what the problem. This arrangement is one you've designed.

You know what I like about you, Matt, is when I asked you what makes you angry, I've discovered today, the only thing you've got angry about is the idea that maybe the cafe owner was just a bit off. He was a bit off there, won't he? And I like that.

But I can't be bothered with people being off with people. I've had such a lovely time with you. It's for a real pleasure. Gorgeous dogs, aren't they? Jim looked like she was smiling then. I don't want you to have to choose, but if you had to choose between the lurcher and the staffy. Other lurcher, Jim.

I would have done for the... the start. Okay. I think there's something about greyhounds and lurchers. There's like a grace, isn't they? They're such beautifully designed dogs. Look at the way they're sort of sat together, two little mates. Oh, that's like us. I think that's two little mates. You're a staffie and I'm a lurcher. How dare you? We'd be the other way around me. I'd be the staffie. I'm the sort of portly one. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that and do remember to rate review and subscribe on iTunes.