Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Matt Goss

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

This week is more of an ‘at home’ with the dog! Emily is joined by Matt Goss and his French Bulldog, Reggie. They discuss the highs and lows of fame, Matt’s relationship with his twin brother, Luke, how he restarted his life in America and his new album. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I've been on TV and radio and press two-thirds of my life. And when I have conversations like this, and I speak exactly the same whether I'm speaking to you or my brother or my stepfather or my managers, I say. Don't speak to me like you speak to Lou. I haven't got the energy. This week's Walking the Dog is more of a snuggling up in our respective homes with the dog. In my case, London, in his case, Las Vegas. I know. It's all gone so international. You may know him best as the frontman of the legendary bull.

Ross, but he's also the owner of an adorable French bulldog called Reggie. It's only Matt Goss. Matt's been written about a lot in his life, so I was dying to find out more about him as a person, and we had a really lovely chat. He's very honest about the highs and lows of fame. We talked about his relationship with his twin Luke, what it was like being catapulted into the spotlight at such a young age, and how he kind of restarted his whole life in America. We also touched on loss, his mum remarried in his childhood and his stepdad's kids Carolyn and Adam became his siblings. So Matt also spoke really movingly about the tragedy of Carolyn's death at the height of Bross's fame and how that profoundly affected him. We talked too about the recent

Bross Reunion documentary after the screaming stops, which if you haven't seen Do, as it's a fabulous watch, as well as his 11 years performing live in Las Vegas and his brand new album, which is out later this year, as well as his podcast, Conversations with Matt Goss. I really like Matt, and I'm not just saying that because he was on my wall when I was 17, or because he's got the cutest dog in the world. Oh, okay, Raymond, the second cutest dog in the world. So I hope you enjoy our chat as much as I did. And if you want to find out more information on Matt's album release and forthcoming live dates,

you can follow his updates on at Matt Goss on Twitter or Insta. I'll stop talking now and hand you over to the man himself. Here's Matt and Reggie. I'm fully charged in my robe, green juice and a bulldog. Well, I'm excited that Matt Goss is in a robe with some green juice. Can you tell me more, Matt? I'm just exactly that. I've got up, I've got my green juice and I've got my bulldog Reggie next to me

and I'm looking forward to having a good old chat with you. I should say, I always forget to do a formal intro on this and I get in trouble. So I'm going to, because this is walking the dog. It's not walking the dog because lockdown. It is at home with the dog. My guest is coming to me from Las Vegas. It's so glamorous. My guest is a singer, songwriter.

He sold 16 million records. I'm with Brostar and now I'm going to go Las Vegas royalty, Matt Goss. Ah, what a lovely intro. Did you like that? I was okay with a robe and green juice. I'm so thrilled you agreed. to do this and I have to say I've been waiting to talk to you since I was about 17. I won't tell you how long that's been. I will say to you, what took you so long?

I mean, for God's sake. Well, you know where I am, darling. I mean, you could have just reached out a lot quicker. We should start by asking you to introduce your dog. My dog is called Reggie and it was actually because I was, believe it not, I was actually friends with Reggie Craig for many, many years. And I would go, I saw him in prison and we, he would call me every morning and read me poetry. And it was, it was just one of those moments where I just thought, if I ever have a dog, I'm going to call him Reggie. So my last dog was called Alfie because of the original movie of Michael Kane.

Love that film. And then I, I was like, Reggie out because I thought maybe if I get two, I'll call him Reggie and Ronnie. But yeah, I love him to pieces. When I first got him, I wanted to flush him down the toilet because he just was destroying my house. And I just have this image of him. I just have this image of him when I come back home, like just him sitting on a rubble that was once my house

and with a flag, with a French bulldog flag, going, I ate your house. Well, Matt, I have to say, which part of him being named after Reggie Craig didn't indicate to you that you might not be the best. best behaved dog in every situation. Well, it was quite a nice chat when I spoke to him. But he's definitely got a side of him.

Anyone that's got French bulldogs out there, I mean, he's been a complete lifesaver for me. I love him. And he's genuinely my best mate. We're kind of both a bit codependent, which is fine by me. Something about bulldogs, I love. I've got a real soft spot from my English

bulldog before him and now I ever, a Frenchie. That was Alfie, wasn't it? Alfie was that pet in my life that changed my life. Like it was the first pet that I was solely responsible for. And, you know, my ex actually, she said to me, if he could climb up your ass and die, he would. We were that close. We're very close.

Very profound, by the way, that statement. Well, do you think, Matt, because I think I got a dog a few years ago. I got a Shih Tzu called Raymond. and I think it taught me how to look after something and it's kind of like a reciprocal love, isn't it? And it's really unconditional that love you get from an animal. Yeah, I think that he is giving me a sense of purpose

for that question during these times. He's two years old. And I look at him and I realize that he is solely dependent on me. He, you know, when I feed him, I love that we have this little routine. He sits in his little spot. all of his little, you know, problems, you know, with his eyes and his, and his, and his, in his ears and his paws. And you just get it sorted and you get him right. And I think there's this kind of sense between the two of you that they, you just, he completely trust me and I completely trust him.

And during these times, I have been extremely lonely at times. And you just, you just feel so, so much more complete when you just got this unconditional love. next year and you just, he becomes, they are, they are part of your family and you either get it or you don't. Well, I always say that I think when I've had gone through tough times, just waking up with my dog who looks so ridiculous, he just makes me laugh and it forces you to start the day with laughter. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because you can't help a lot and I've seen your dog, he would make me laugh. I wouldn't stop laughing with that place.

Thank you. Mine, you mean. It's so kind. We have a lot to talk about today, Matt Goss, because you've got a very busy year of projects coming up, which I'm very excited about. But we're going to start by going back in time a bit to Matt Goss, the early years. I want to know about your pets growing up,

because you had quite a few dogs, didn't you? Yeah, I mean, we grew up with dogs. I mean, it was just like our first dog I can remember was James. My mom loved Yorkshire Terriers. I'm terrible, but I'm not a massive fan of small dogs, but we had a dog called James, which is a Yorkshire Terrier. We had these two beautiful kind of mutts. They were, I guess they were staff mixes, I guess,

but they were beautiful staff labs, kind of, but they looked like Dalmatians, but muscular. And they're called Bill and Ben. And then we also had a goat, so called Mary. Hello, hello. I should say Matt Goss just dropped out, and I was really paranoid that I just laughed after he told me he had a pet goat called Mary,

and I thought he was so offended, he'd slammed the link and slammed the family down. No, I loved it. I love that you laughed at Mary, because, I mean, I think that's maybe why in the heavens, like Mary's having an instant karma. Tony and my stepfather would insist on milking her every morning and trying to make us have cornflakes with Mary's milk. And I can tell you, warm milk is not a fun experience. kid knowing it's just come out of the goat out of the back garden.

And this is when you and your brother, Lou, because it was the two of you originally, wasn't it, with your parents. And you moved around quite a lot when you're a kid, Matt, didn't you? And I wondered, what effect do you think that has on you as an adult? I think travel can be a lot of fun for a kid. But I think we, I think we did move just simply too much because you go into schools and you have to, you know, reintroduce yourself and you have to go through that awful kind of phase where you're, you know, you're the new kid. And it was, it was difficult. And I think, I definitely think now I have a sense that I really need home. I need home in my life, you know, and I need, and I think that's back in the UK, to be honest with

you. I think I want to be in a place where I don't have to. to continue to explain my life. And there's this beautiful kind of extended family that I have in the UK called the British Public. They just come up to me, they tell me stories. It's just, it's a very lovely place to be. I wondered, you know, obviously twins have a very close relationship, inevitably, but I feel like you and Luke

were just really bonded from such an early age, weren't you? Yeah, I think we've, you know, I think in some ways we long for those days. I mean, we're the closest we've been, been in a long, long time. But there was, in the beginning of our life, we were inseparable because, you know, you get this codependent thing that you have with your mother, because you go through, we were obviously, she separated from my father when we were five. And then me and my brother and my mother, we were kind of a unit. It was just we were a little tribe that we were very codependent.

And then the band happened. And it created all this strange. energy. I didn't know I was the lead singer of the band. I just thought I was in a band. I didn't realize it was there was a prestige to that or it was going to create discourse between my brother. And after watching the film, after the screaming stops, I realized there was a lot of discourse and possible animosity towards me. And it changed our relationship greatly. And we didn't speak properly, really. There was a time that we didn't actually speak to each other for three years. straight and it's heartbreaking for me. So I think, yeah, I mean, being a twin is a strange thing. I think there is a natural desire to pine for your own identity. And that can be problematic

because people assume if you break your wrist, I mean, I literally broke my wrist once and people would ask me, did Luke break his wrist? It's the strangest thing. It's like, people think that you're identical in every sense of the word. And we're frankly, we're very, very different people. also we had twins in my school growing up and I just remember they were almost like celebrities. Do you know what I mean by that? Like they got a lot of focus and attention because if you're shy and you, I don't know, I get the impression you were quite a shy kid. You know, it's a strange thing. First of the first part of your question, yes, you do get a lot

of attention. We were known as the Goss brothers or the Goss twins and so there is an immediacy about is that there's kind of a double trouble, a double trouble element. about being a twin. So you do have that. That's in your favour. So like if you mess with me, you miss with my brother and vice versa. There's definitely a sense that you constantly want your own identity because people kind of think that you're just this one person. And that could not be further from the truth.

Even now, me and my brother are almost polar opposites on what we like in pop culture, what we like in music, what we like in fashion. we are complete opposite ends of the spectrum. I sort of think when families you get assigned a role, you know, you almost get given your part and it's like, Matt is this one, Matt's, you know, whether it be the Joker, whether it be the rebellious one. And you can stick with that through life sometimes, without questioning that.

Did you have a sense of you having a defined role when you were a kid? I always felt like I was deeply connected to my mum. but not just as a mother. She was my best friend. My mum was deeply my best friend. And I think Luke was more out. Luke was just much more social than me in the beginning. Like he had the girlfriend before me.

And I used to watch him snogging Nicola in her MG while I was trying to practice my saxophone to the true solo by Spandau ballet. It's a bit of a sad scene in a movie, me looking longingly at my brother snogging, Nicola in her MG. And then I ended up meeting a beautiful girl called Cindy, who I lost my virginity, which is fantastic. But it was a, thank you. Yeah, it finally happened. No action since that day. But it was definitely, I feel in some ways it's been an apology.

I've kind of tried to downplay. Certainly being the singer of the band during that time, I felt like, how do I let my brother know that I don't want any more spotlight on me because I'm the seeing. I just, it was like a constant apology. It was quite exhausting and I found myself becoming a little subservient, I think, in some ways. And that was not fun because I'm not a subservient man. I am an opinionated person with things that I believe I understand. And if I don't understand them, then I'll ask. I actually find it quite joyful when I learn things and I don't know things. Were you a sort of natural performer and was Luke as well? No, I don't think we were. I think

that I was painfully shy. There's a side of me that's still very shy. I mean, I'm very confident as a man, but there's a side of me that actually prefers to just people watch and I do not need to be the centre of attention right now. It's just not who I am. I think that's why you don't see me and Luke in the UK unless we're working or we're just not those people. But I think that when I was at school, there was a teacher called Jane Roberts who just, she changed my life. She made me believe that I could do anything. And she, you know, I knew that I didn't want to be a rocket. So I didn't want to be a brain surgeon or build rockets.

And I remember on my physics exam, I just put my name at the top of it and dated it and walked up to the teacher, said, I'm not going to build rockets. And I walked out of the exam. I knew then that I didn't want to waste two hours. of my life doing something I knew categorically was not going to be in my future. But what Jane did, Jane Roberts did, is she allowed me to not feel strange about being very focused on what I loved. And I thought I was going to be an actor. But then when I did the production of cabaret, it involved singing and people said they like my voice. I didn't even know what that meant to be on. See that. I was like, what do you mean you like my voice?

And I then after that, I rapidly joined a band at 12 was my first band. And, um, you know, the time we were 17, we were signed. At our first offer, actually, for a record deal when we was 16 from Arista, which was Clive Davis, they passed on us the day they were meant to sign us. And then two years later, Sony came in. And two years from that, we were number one. Then you became Bross. You had some very interesting band names.

Yes, we did. Yes, we did. May I remind you of caviar? But as it was just, again, I genuinely meant that. It was such a dodgy name. But I love how dodgy it was because we had no idea what it was. We knew it was expensive and we couldn't afford it. So let's call it a Caviard.

I'm like, we named a band after fish eggs was definitely one of our final moments. But I love those moments because they're completely full of naivety and innocence. And then we were epitome. We had, we were. You had some of your names. It sounds like the sort of gladiators ready. Caviar, ice, gloss. Yeah, but when you're a kid, you want to be like, you want to be like the movie

trailer. Do you know what? And it was so funny. We went up, we did a gig once. And we went on stage and our name was ice. It still makes me laugh this story because we went on stage and our name was ice. And our manager introduced us to a bunch of. you know oh let's just say older people and we went out and he goes ladies and

gentlemen please welcome pulse two and we're like what the fuck pulse two we were called ice a minute ago and what happened to pulse one why were we why will we post two he like downgraded us before it even become a band he called us pulse two it was one of those moments where you were just we were just like what We're Pulse 2 now and um we're not even Pulse 1 guys we're not even we're not even Pulse 2.0 it's like it is yeah talk about like and I was that was going through my head I'm like who's Pulse one with a shit pulse too like we're like thanks thanks like you couldn't have then he was the manager that said I'm going to rent out Concord and you're

going to do a live gig on Concord. I don't know if you've ever been on Concord, but it's like there's not even enough room for a snare drum in the middle of those seats. So it would have been the only, it would have been the first single file gig of all time. But we had a manager when we used to bunk off school. We was, you know, 15 and he lived on a casual state. And we used to go to his house, have a cup of tea and you'd tell us he was going to rent Concord. And we believed him. So, but it's all part of the journey.

And it's, it's fun. You then went on to sign with Tom Watkins, who's no longer with us, I believe. But he, people will know that, you know, he was a legendary manager, wasn't he? He was one of those big managers who... I think he was an infamous manager. Infamous is a... Yeah, exactly. He was an infamous manager.

And it was... And again, that became quite infamous your deal, if I'm honest, didn't it? That people look back on that and think no act would sign that because the fact is your kids and, well, what's your choice? Do you want this deal and to be famous or do you want nothing? Is that sort of how it felt? No, it wasn't that at all. It was not that at all.

It was a deal with a management company. These are all things that we know now. Obviously, most of the people listening will understand basic things like net and gross. You know, but the reality is when somebody says to you, if you make a million bucks, you're going to, we take 20% and you take the rest. what they don't tell you is, is if you play Wembley Stadium like we did, and it does cost a million dollars. The gross profit is a million, so the commission is $200,000, and you are then in debt to your manager for almost a quarter of a million bucks because you just played a gig. And what we were trying to say to him, we are now officially a stadium band.

We're playing stadiums all over the world, but it's costing us money because we're not doing multiple stadiums. with like most stadium gigs is a night at Wembley Stadium, at night at the Tokyo Dome, and most people that tour know that first gig pays all the costs, the second gig is all profit. But you don't know these things. And what it was, he also had the same business manager as us. So we had his lawyer, which is conflict of interest,

now I know that. We had his accountant, which is also conflict of interest. We now know that. So when the people around you are basically team Tom and you're going out and you're doing 30 interviews a day and you're touring the world and you're grafting, your team is not looking out for your best interests. And it's just simply unfair.

It wasn't anything to do about being famous. It was all about positioning. So the positioning of that particularly delivery of information was, hey, we've got you, We've got everything covered guys. You're safe. We've got an accountant. We've got, we're Saffey's London boys. We know accountant was. Our parents didn't have accountants. We were living paycheck to paycheck. So we've got an accountant. We've got a business manager. We have a lawyer for you. It's all under one roof. So the positioning of information was that you were

safe. And by definition, we were not, we were not safe. And presumably, I mean, it's so interesting, Matt, with Bross, because I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but these bands, you know, there were bands that release music and you remember them fondly, but there was this thing about Broth. It was like a cultural phenomenon, you know, in that you influenced the way we all dressed. You influenced everything, the haircuts people had. It was, it just had this huge effect, didn't it? I do understand that Bross was cultural because every day of my life, it doesn't matter where in the world I am, people were reminisce about, like you say, like the Doc Martins, the 501s,

the white t-shirts, the bomber jackets, the biker jackets, the haircuts. It was a cultural, it definitely was a cultural thing. And it's nice to see Bross popping up in a lot of fashion magazines or the fashion, you know, iconic fashion publications now that we did influence fashion and music. And it was, I'm very, very proud of Ross. And I think that the fact that we lost a ton of money, you know, I always say this. I mean, the ramifications of that definitely changed my life and I would love to have been able to take care of my family in a different way back then but there's a very kind of like driven side of me that I you know I dusted myself off there were some there was a rough year where I you know I lost money lost my girl I lost lost my home I was kind of

exiled from my country that I loved with all of my heart and I just had to kind of I had a rough year in America the first year because I was just, I went from arguably one of the most famous men on the planet. And I said to my bodyguard at the time in America, I said, you have to go back to England because I'm not experiencing life the way I'm meant to. And I have to figure out if I've got what it takes to actually survive in this industry and in life. And it was a rough ride for a good year, a year and a half. And I blacked out in agoraphobia. I couldn't be around too many people.

I felt super vulnerable without, you know, your team, you know, your bodyguards. And people don't understand that. Like, it's a very, very, it really was, you know, there were four to 500 people everywhere, every home that we're in, every hotel we're in. And it got to the point where you just, you couldn't see past, I know, it was just, but I learnt so much from it and I feel blessed, you know, two years ago we played the O2 with my brother and sold it out at seven seconds. It's like, you know, I played for President Biden. It's, you know, my life has been extraordinary and it continues

to be. Did you have a chance to sort of catch up with it all? Was there a sense of, oh my God, this has happened so quickly suddenly, which was after when will I be famous, wasn't it, that everything exploded? I don't think when you're experiencing. in fame for the first time and you can't you think that you just assume that's what fame is that's how fame is invented and it and that's the pace that it all comes you don't think about any of the things that we're digesting now like it's real time so when I'm having lunch with Princess Diana I'm like wow it's Princess Diana but you know we're in a famous band and I guess that's what happens you know like you don't you know hanging out of the Rolling Stones in Kansas City and Keith

Richard says, what the fuck are you doing it? And it was like it was, you know, these are, and we end up playing table tennis before they go on gig, Ronnie, Ronnie would, wears, takes my jacket off my back and wears it on, where's it on stage for the show. And I get it back and they've all signed it. These are things that are in my life that I don't want to forget or downplay. And I think that's the thing that I've learned of late, that I don't want to kind of dumb down or dull my life because they're exciting, they're beautiful things.

things and we are all going to leave this planet. My life has been extraordinary and it's been difficult and I've had absurd loss in my life. You know, but during the whole, my sister was killed by a drunk driver. I mean, three people died that night and it was, you know, you still have to carry on and I have found a fortitude within me that wants to make my mother, although she's not here physically, um, I want to make her. her proud and I want to make myself proud. I want to look at myself in a mirror and I have felt very compromised lately in my personal life. To be very candid with you, I have felt very like my public life is an inconvenience to certainly the last person I was dating. I just felt like

my public life was an inconvenience because I don't want to post my relationship publicly and yes, I was in a relationship. And but I don't want to. it to be public unless I know that it will indeed keep me safe for the rest of my life. And it's something that is worth talking about as in that it's not going away. And I get a constant barrage of opinions about my personal life online and it's exhausted. At one point, you were written about, you know, next to the Royal Family. You and Luke were the most written about people, you know, and it's sort of endured. They're still interest in you.

And I think that might make me a bit paranoid, if I'm honest. If you acquire a certain level of fame, it does not go away. Simon Le Bonn, he's not in the charts right now, but like, you know immediately, right? You know his face. He's still a very, very famous, very talented man. It doesn't go away. And I think there's this real naivety that, you know, sometimes people come to, hey, you know, and they might think they're the first person to come up to you that day.

And that's never the case. The one thing that I own in my life that I don't want to. to change is my private life. And if I got married, then the whole world would know and I would be, I'd want to, I'd want to like shout at the top of my lungs. But it has to be exactly that. It has, it has to be something that I'm extremely proud and safe. And I know that I'm also protected, you know, because as well as, you know, you're looking out in a way you look out for the person that you're dating and you try and tell them, look, you know, you have to understand this is going to change a shape of us and indeed it has many many times for me.

I wanted to ask you Matt actually because I know you lost your sister and I'm I'm so sorry because I lost my sister actually about 10 years ago. I think I know this sounds weird but I sort of you always feel connected to people when they've gone through there because it's a very unique thing losing a sibling. It's I and looking at how you and your brother at the time just that you had to go on Wogan and you got this gold disc and I was so shocked that that that was the day after your sister died? Well, the crazy thing is that I actually look quite emotional watching the movie when I saw our faces and you could see that we were not quite there.

We were. You could see we were in pain. And as young kids, it was, you know, again, the delivery of information is so vital, even now. But the delivery of information back then was, you know, she'd want you to do it. And this is a big TV show. She wouldn't want you to miss out on it. out on it and and you know you're like okay and and then you do suffer for that I mean I'm you know you know it's like I'm not going to be an uncle you know I would I would long I long

to have my mother and my sister's advice about certain things in this time of my life and I do think loss shapes you in a way that I certainly and I think that all of the negative things that that happened I've I've learned from and I think I've grown. Like I don't, I never drink and drive. I don't really, I've never done a drug in my life or had a cigarette in my life. And I just really am conscious what I put in my body and how I live. Because of that event, it would be such a disrespectful act for me to ever put anyone else at harm or waste one second of my life. Because there's so many people listening that have lost people. We get to wake up tomorrow. And by definition, we should live in a place of gratitude and

live people up. I'm not trying to be all kumbaya. It's just how I, feel it just life feels better in a more compassionate and more loving place for me. I also felt, you know, and there's no perfect way for someone to find out, but it was like you'd got off a plane, hadn't you? And it was like, right, we're going to, you went to your mum's house, didn't you? Yeah, I mean, it's still a very, very painful memory for me because it was one of those moments when we were always, there's always be like five cars, everybody would go off in their own direction. We were for some reason in this very long limousine going, in a direction that was not where we lived.

And I said, what's happened? And then in the end, I just remember grabbing my manager by the scruff of his suit. And I said, tell me it's not mum. I just said, tell me it's not mum. And then I shouted it the third time, as closest to his face as I could get. And he said, it's not your mum.

And then that was it. Then there was silence in the car. So we waited for half an hour. And then we got to my mum's house. and there were 500 plus fans outside. And unlike the usual madness, they parted, it was like they parted a path, didn't say anything.

We walked in. And as soon as I saw my mum, I felt relief. And I said, who is it? And then she said, Carolyn died last night. I found it quite moving when you went, after you left Bross and after Bross was over, you went over to L.A. But you went through this period, a tough time.

you know, which you've been really honest and open about. And I couldn't help feeling, having experienced it myself, I couldn't help thinking that maybe that was delayed grief a bit. Well, I think is exactly that you hit the nail on my head. I think that you crack on with life when mum died. I just went, I was on stage within, I was back on stage within five days at Caesar's Palace. And it's a defense mechanism.

It's a way to not acknowledge quote unquote the grief. It's a way to sweep it all under the carpet. But if there's a hole in the, if there's a hole in the ground and you put the carpet over it or a rug over it, you're still going to fall into that hole. And now I've just pulled the carpet away and I'm very aware of that hole. Even now, there are times where you just go, oh, my God, I wish I was an uncle or I wish I could have that counsel from certainly the women in my life, my mother and my sister.

But yeah, I mean, I went to America and it was all just like, it all just kind of imploded. I just I remember just not knowing if I could physically make it. It was just too extreme for a young guy of 24 to, you know, coming out of being still being Uber famous. It wasn't like you suddenly the day you leave the country, you're not that person anymore. But there was a, unfortunately, there was a glee to when we lost the money and we,

and it was people don't remember. it now, but a lot of people have actually beautifully apologized to me. Editors of met newspapers and that have said, we didn't realize, you know, the headline Four Letter Fury at Bross Funeral. I mean, my brother, because one of the photographers laughed when my brother was coming out of the car into the church, and one of them laughed because he was crying. And he went, you know, fuck you. And then the headline in the next day was Four Letter Fury at Bross Funeral.

I mean, it's in such poor taste. I actually don't think that would happen anymore because I do believe that journalists also enjoy a good conversation. I think an interview is a conversation. And good journalists understand that. They don't do Q&As. They have a conversation with you. But I don't regret anything.

And I don't want people to think that my life has always been said. I've had some of those extremely beautiful moments. I want to obviously, after the screaming stop, so let's fast forward to that, because that came out a couple of years ago and it was just phenomenal, wasn't it? The reception you got to that because people absolutely loved it.

I think the thing that we thank you, I think the thing that I've experienced from people is that it's about dysfunction, really, let's be honest. It was the movies about dysfunction and find a way out of dysfunction. And I think that what I've heard from, I'm talking thousands of people, They're like, wow, you've made me realize that my family is not the only dysfunctional family.

It's really kind of reassuring. We had therapy. Honestly, me and my brother had therapy in front of the nation. And it was, I didn't know, and he didn't know the pain that we were in about our sister and our mother. Because it's always best foot forward, the show must go on mentality in this industry. And I think we made, we were very, very adamant that we did not want. a promo piece movie and we were like we do not want a shiny polished version of a movie because that wasn't our life was there anything that surprised you watching it you know just in terms of your

relationship because i felt it really made reminded me of how that thing of when it's a friend saying or maybe you should turn left to it you say okay and when it's a sibling you say well why don't you drive then you know it's just that dynamic isn't it's very different i i call those kind of conversation is table tennis. When you're saying, well, I, you know, I feel this way. Well, I feel this way. Well, I did that. Well, you did that. That's a table tennis conversation and it's, it's pointless. You know, some people listen to respond and then some people listen and then respond. And I would rather have a conversation with somebody that listens and then responds. So they digest what you're saying. You can then digest what they're saying. But a lot of, I will say a lot of conversation.

people that already have an answer before you've finished your point. So they're really not listening to you. You're playing ping pong. I feel I should make it absolutely clear that I am very much listening to Matt Goss at this point before responding. So there was also all the funny stuff that people picked up on. The Gossisms weren't there. There was, you know, the thing about the conkers and there's, you know. There was the conkers thing.

First of all, I think anyone watching that film knows that I would, I was, it was tongue in cheek. Yeah. It was tongue in cheek. Yeah, Luke said Rome wasn't built in a day. We don't have the time Rome had. That was one that was picked up on. But the thing is there was kind of like this piss take thing at the front of it. But in the end, the movie prevailed because people actually got it for what it was. And the movie way, way prevailed. It had about a week of kind of like that, the memes. And then it actually took on a life of its own and became a cultural, again, a cultural movie. I also felt my takeaway from that was that you get rewarded for being all.

There was a real sense of affection for you because you were kind of hanging everything out for everyone to see, you know, in. Yeah. And that just felt, I guess you were making yourself vulnerable. Vulnerability to me is extremely important. Vulnerability should be met with an immediacy. If you and I were married and you told me Matt I'm vulnerable, I feel vulnerable today. Stop this, man. It's not fair.

Come on. But if we, and you said to me, Matt, I feel vulnerable today. my life would stop at that moment and I'd be like, tell me why, but how can I help? There's an immediacy that must come along with vulnerability because it's the biggest compliment and biggest act of courage somebody can show you. They're letting you know that you can potentially be the person that can help with that moment and they're also honoring you. So on the other side of things, you know, being truthful is great because you don't have to remember the lies.

I've been on TV and radio and press my whole two thirds of my life. And when I have conversations like this, and I speak exactly the same whether I'm speaking to you or my brother or my stepfather or my manager, don't speak to me like you speak to Lou. I haven't got the energy. But it's, I think there is something really good about just being who you are and being authentic. And then you don't have to remember who you've been in the press or who, what you said that wasn't truthful.

I think as an entertainer, one thing I've learned in Vegas is that if you undress your soul and you put it out there and you're honest about your day, and I tell the audience, I'm pissed off today, it's going to be a good show. Well, I'm glad you've mentioned Vegas because let's get to that where you've been in Vegas for, you've been doing your, you've had your residencies there for, is it, it's over a decade now, Matt, isn't it? It's about 12 years, is it? 11 years, yeah.

11 years. And what made you make that move? always your dream? It was one of my grandfather, Harry, he used to say to me, go and play Vegas Sun and he used to call me Son and just, and it's been somewhere that I've always wanted to play and one of the heads of, or the directors of entertainment at the time at the Palms said to me, we want you at the casino and would you come in for a meeting with the owners of the casino and myself and I said, when? They went tomorrow. I'm like, he said, we'll fly you you in private jet the whole thing i'm like all right i'll be there tomorrow so i went had an incredible

meeting and i love my watches and he was wearing an aldermiles figae watch and i was like um we had we had a great appreciation for each each other style and it was great three days went by i went back to la and hadn't heard anything he and he ends up contact me and say listen i know you haven't heard from us but i I promise you that this is going to work. If it doesn't, I'm going to give you my ultimars. And I was like, I will be taking your watch if I don't get this gig. And he laughed and he said, I know. Anyway, next day he called me, he said, I've got good news and I've got bad news.

And he said, give me the bad news. He said, you're not getting my watch. Welcome to Las Vegas. And Vegas has taught me more as an entertainer than anywhere on earth because there's so much, there's so many choices. And there's so much variety. And then when, especially when you're on the strip and you're a headliner, you know, there's so much choice.

So to have to sustain a show four nights a week and put bums on seats, as they would say, for that many years. It's basically the equivalent of doing a Wembley every month. The truth is, it's not as glamorous at times as people would think, that an audience in Vegas, one third the audience has no, clue who you are. They've read a trip advisor and they're like, all right, then bloody entertain me then, you know, got their arms crossed, wearing their flip flops. And you're like, well, you're wearing flipflops in my showroom for? You know, and it's, but I give my audience a hard time.

I've learned the art of composure in front of any audience. And it's, it was remarkable within nine months of that being at the Palms. I was at Caesar's Palace and I did a seven year run at Caesar's. I don't know what the lifestyle's really like in Vegas. Do you, do people have an apartments or condos? No, I have a beautiful house. I'm on a golf course right now. I'm looking at the fairway mountains. And some of like, some of this God's country out here,

some of it's beautiful. And yes, there's the strip and it's crazy. But Vegas has got some of the most beautiful vistas of mountain. You know, it's just close to the, you know, the Hoover Dam, the Grand Canyon. And where do you take Reggie? Do you take him for walks near you? Well, he takes me for a walk, first of all. But I take him for a walk in my neighbourhood.

And sometimes we go up, there's this little kind of hike that I go up. He bombs up there. But I actually use, I walk religiously with Reggie because he is that moment where, you know, I can just, if I have to do business, even if I do business, I'll put my ear pods in and just me and Reggie will walk. And he gets so excited and he's just everything to me. Like he's the, you know, I box for what 20 years now and I hit the bag. It feels good and everything.

But walking with Reggie is the thing that really, really sets me up for my day. And I even go for like midnight walks as well, like late late walks with him. You know what I love about walking with a dog? Dogs have a happy heart. You know, they have a happy heart. I like that they're shameless though. They're just shameless. I had a couple of friends over the other day.

And it was like, it's really funny with people like, bulldogs are kind of notoriously flatulent. And I'm just sitting there. We're all watching a movie. And he's like, farting. And it's like, it's pretty bad. I'm not going to lie. It's pretty, it's like a brick wall hitting you in the face.

And it was one of those moments. And then what was pissing me off was, It's like my guests were looking at me in disgust. I'm like, this is not my arsehole. This is my dog. So we're watching the movie and it kept going, it was pretty bad. It ended up in an argument. I'm like, can you just guys back off?

Like, you're looking at me like, this is my dog's asshole and you're like looking at me that it's me. And it was like, but he's laying there. What I love the bay, what makes me laugh is that he has no clue. He's causing this disruption. He's just like, you know, you imagine if human beings were just like that and just didn't that care free we're like oh I'm sorry like it's like but it's like but the dogs if you ever look at your dog anyone listening when you the dog fart snakes just imagine how free that animal is right does not give a shit does not care

less about bills and has no idea what he's just done there's all that I would say on the they're shameless Reggie gives too many shits that's a problem he does he but they're shameless and it's funny. I've watched him. I've watched him and his ears don't even move when he farts. It doesn't, he could care less. I've heard you have an album out this year. You have a single coming out in spring and I'm hearing quite exciting things about this. Yeah, I mean, I know everybody's proud of their records, but I've, I've gone back to pop, like super like, Uber, like conscious of writing out and out like smash records, you know, and I really have been conscious of, and I've been throwing songs away. And I have a 10-track album that is every single song on

this album is a single. And it's, I'm so excited about it. And I've been keeping it under my hat and I don't want anyone to hear it until the videos are in place and everything's in place, the right team's in place. But it is such a good album. And I completely fill out. with music at the beginning of COVID. But I found my way back because I just wanted to get back. I love pop music. I love being on the radio and I love creating music that actually moves people commercially. And I think that's another thing that I don't feel ashamed of anymore. I feel like I love pop music and I love melodies that just get under your skin. You can't get, you can't get them out of your head. And it's been very liberating and to know the quality of record

that I have and some of the comparisons that the industry. my industry, are giving it are a remarkable. So I'm super excited. After this, I'm going to the studio to finish the last song on the album. And I'm making me feel guilty. I'm responsible. No, no, no. There isn't that last track on the album. That's going to be my thought, everyone. I was really the genuine looking forward to talk to you. I love what you do. I've heard the Ricky Jervais, the interview did. I love him. And he was very kind about the movie. and you know he you know I love after life what he did I think that shows I think it's arguably one of the most perfect pieces of drama and comedy of all time I think to be able to address

those subjects that he does that way you do cry and then five minutes you're laughing your ar stuff I think it's one of the finest pieces of writing I think it's phenomenal writing Like it is, it really, it really affected me. I think he's really, really shown that he has such an emotional intelligence and the understanding of grief and comedy that they can go in hand in hand. That is a real skill to make somebody laugh their ass off and, and cry, you know, 10 seconds later. And you know what? Loves dogs.

I love it. I love that we all love dogs. People who don't like dogs, something wrong with them, Matt. I don't trust them. I don't trust. I was going to say the same thing. I do, I always feel very weird. People that don't like dogs are serial killers.

But what do you mean by that? No, it's true that I'm in the same way. Like, how can you not love? Like, I mean, I'm not going to say that I'm not a cat person. But like, I think I'm just, I think I'm just a little bit selfish when it comes to, when I come home, I want to be like, yeah, I love you so much, dad. I love you. I love you.

I love you. Cats are like, yeah, feed me. I might give you a little bit of a stroke. I might come and see you in a minute. They're so aloof. Dog would put a ring on it. You know what? Dogs would put a ring on it.

Cats are fuck boys. But it's true that you come back and they're like, they sit down with you. They watch the TV. Yes. They're like, they hang out. They give you a bit of love. They know where they want to be. They're exactly where they want to be when you go to bed, which is with you.

Cats are like, hmm, you know what? I'm okay. I'm not really feeling you today. I don't need. Feed me and I'll talk you in a week. There are some cats that are super, super loving and super needy. But a majority of them are just like, I really fucking need you.

I just need you to feed me. And, you know, I like, thanks for, thanks for giving me a roof. They're drive-by merchants. I'm not having that drive-by. I'm sorry. No, they're fuck boys is what they are. I say to cats, buy me, buy me a drink at least. I know.

Buy me dinner. They're doing you a favour where dogs are like, like, thank you. I love you. You're the best in my dad. Do you have therapy, Matt? I went for therapy. Not now I don't, but I went for therapy after my mother,

or just before, actually twice I went, I suffered with panic attacks and it was debilitating for a couple of years. And I went to cognitive therapy to try and get to the root of the issue. Because again, I didn't really have a partner that was understanding. One second, I'm going to put a note on my door. What's the note going to say? It says, no recording, don't knock or ring the bell, because you're here, Reggie. He's about to lose his. I said, who's it, boy?

Who's it boy? Who is it? I wish you could see him. Who's it, boy, boy. Go on, who's it boy? Yeah. Oh, sorry. I'm just doing an interview.

Do you have a dog voice, Matt? Can I do my dog voice for you? You show me yours. I'll show you mine. Okay. This is how I speak to Raymond. You good boy, Raymond. Good boy.

You good boy, Raymond. Good boy. Okay. That was my dog voice. Matt's dog voice now. See, mine, obviously know his name is Reggie, but I call him bobbins, right? So I don't know why.

But I'm like, other bobbies. You have bobbies? Come here, bobbies. Come here, bobbys. Come here, boy. Come here, boy. Yes, yes. Well, I love your dog voice, Matt.

Just before I let you go, I have a couple of things. When did you last cry, Matt? This morning. What made you cry? I feel, I have felt lately that I have been troubled by a few things. I've recently come out of a relationship, partly because they wanted it to be public. and it was tumultuous is up and down and I'm like it has to be solid for a year where I know I'm safe and feel safe and it was it's troubling because that's what I was saying before so it was that I also miss my my family I haven't I've seen Luke twice in a year and half I've seen I've seen my dad in two years and I think it's okay like we talk about mental health and stuff and I think we have moments of mental health like it doesn't mean you're into the earlore. I think you just sometimes during these times feel a little detached from your

brain and you have these moments where you just have a little moments where you implode. You know, I'll have a shower and I'll just let a few tears out in the shower and just and feel good for the day. I think it's important for fellas especially as well to know that we are pressure cookers by definition. We build up all of this stuff and I think you have to let it out a little bit because I function with much more clarity and efficiency when I'm when I when I when I feel a little bit free from some of the things that are troubling me so I think I think my private life is troubling me currently because I want it to be amazing and happy and but I also want to allow to be me and frankly I felt myself dissolving

within wanting to make my partner or you know in my life happy but I'm not going to lose my private life for anybody so I think you know I'm not afraid to admit that it's it's it's been very frustrating because unless you've lived that world and you know exactly what comes with allowing you know too much of your life to be out there I think It will only have an adverse effect on what you really want. And that's a really solid, cerebral, full of love, full of sex, full of happiness, full of good food and wine and just and have a good time and a great friendship that happens to be a lover. But that can't happen if you continuously allow external opinions.

And, you know, because it's really a very, there's two very dangerous things out there. Bored people are very dangerous because they want to look at your life. And then the other thing is speculation. You know, speculation is very dangerous. Finally, I have found a place where I don't feel ashamed because I'm known or it shouldn't be an inconvenience for somebody. It's actually one of the most exciting ways to live. And I've always embraced fame.

And I think I'm very blessed. I'm not one of those complaining celebrities. I love being famous. It's a lot of fun. And there are moments about it. acknowledging that you are famous and you're not still asking when it's going to happen. I think we all know that you achieved that some years ago. Let me just stitch up my, hold on, never heard that one before.

Tell me Matt, we haven't mentioned your brilliant podcast, conversations with Matt Goss where you chat to people sort of about everything and everything, don't you? Yeah, it's been so diverse. We've had Douglas Smith, who is former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security at the White house with Obama. It was it was great talking to him and getting his perspective on American politics. I love politics. And then also how he felt about the state of the future of the country and stuff like that. So he's a very good friend of mine. And then we also spoken to a man called Dr. Dodie who set up the Center for Compassion at Stanford University with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. And my next guest is a he's a, he's a

great guess. Off the record. Can I say something off the record? Yeah, go on. I just did the karaoke thing with me and I'm talking on my next one. Can I just say, I might have just made an edit here because Matt will kill me if I don't make this edit because it'll get in trouble. But Matt has just told me something so exciting about

a forthcoming appearance, we'll call it, with Matt, you tease it. You're good at that. Yeah, it's going to be great. I'm not really good at teasing. I just get straight to the point. What do you most fear people would say about you, like when you leave the room, and what do you most hope they would say about you?

It's hard to use the word fear for me, but I would say I have an expression called have my back behind my back. If you are saying anything about me when I leave the room and that's negative, and then I come back in the room and not be a negative. I would way rather you just tell me to my face

because I'm a London boy and I can handle it. So it would be anything that was not favourable when you walked out of the room if you are with friends. If you're around people that are your friends, I think loyalty is freedom. You know why it's freedom is because if people know, people certainly know about me, that I don't want to talk shit about my mates because, and if they do, I will get up from the table, leave and say, I'm going to inform the person about what you're saying.

So what happens is it gives me freedom and then ironically, it gives the people around me freedom because they just know I don't want to hear it. When I leave this phone conversation now, what would you like me to say when I put the phone down? What would you like me to say? I really feel Matt Goss is... I feel like I hope that people understand there's an intelligence within my soul and that I'm conscious as a human and I listen. And really that's the main thing is that I'm just, I hope people know that I'm not represented by sound bites and there's a living, breathing person that has a big heart and is deeply connected to compassion and kindness and loyalty and all those beautiful old school values. and common courtesy. Those that's really who I would like to be to my friends and people that come within my circle. And I'm not, people will say, oh, you worried about, you know, people want to be around you because what you do. I am one of those people that immediately, if I'm comfortable around person, you're part of my family.

I'm going to tell you what I am going to say is Matt Goss is an absolute joy. Oh. I've so loved talking to you, Matt, and I love the look of your dog. And I really hope you have a lovely day with Reggie. And I'd like to say to you that, you know, you do this all the time. We do it, or both of us doing interviews all day long. I had a pretty rough start to my day and I'm going through stuff. I'm in the studio today and I need you to genuinely know this.

I'm not person for lip service. You have genuinely changed the mood of my spirit today. You've lifted my spirits today. and your accent and just, you know, being in the States, you just really made me, you've really changed the shape of me today. So thank you. And I said you nothing but loved. Can I just send a message to my 17-year-old self

because she wouldn't believe it? Matt, you're amazing. Can we say, I'm going to get my dog, Ray, to sort of wave virtually at Reggie. Bye, Reggie. We love you. My dog's just got his ass in my face. So hopefully you take that as a... As a display of love and affection.

I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.