Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Matt Lucas

Episode Date: October 19, 2017

Emily goes out for a stroll with comedian Matt Lucas and his two Labradors Milo and Hob - they talk about Matt’s childhood and the moment he realised he was going to be a comic, coming out, avoiding the red carpet, and why he’s not a fan of dogs on the bed! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

That was the unsuccessful follow-up to I kissed a girl. I kicked a poo. I kicked a poo and I liked it. This week on Walking the Dog, I went out for a West London stroll with comedian Matt Lucas and his two gorgeous Labrador's Hobb and Milo. We had a really nice afternoon in his local park and even though Matt's quite discreet he had on a baseball cap at an Arsenal Anorak, he's still got so much attention and love from people wanting to come and have a moment with him

and pay their respects. He's basically the Taj Mahal in his. human form, but much funnier. Oh and I should say Matt's book, The A to Z of Me, has just come out and it's really funny and touching. I recommend it highly. And he hasn't even paid me to say that? Can you even?

One last thing. Can you rate and review this podcast on iTunes just because I love you if you do? I'll still like you if you don't. You'll just get a hi instead of a hello! It really smells of dogs in here. I just noticed it. I don't, Matt. Well, you know, I just got a dog.

so my place is like the world's biggest animal toilet. I really. I got a shipsie. Oh that's nice. He's very cute. Come. Actually, I'll tell you what, I usually put the leads on at the end of the road. It's fine.

Do you, okay? Bye. Bye. See later. So we've got Hot, it's Hobb and Milo. Yeah, hello. That was Hobb banging his tail. Yeah, that's what he does.

Like Wagner against the dustin. Drop it, drop it. Good boy. Oh, ignoring. I forgot the poo bags. Oh, I've got one. No, I've got them actually. Have you got them?

Yeah, I sort of keep them in pocket actually. We're all good. Do you know what I love about Matt Lucas? He's always got a poo bag. Always. That's just for me, not, never mind the dog. That's for me, Matt. You haven't seen me for a while, but I need that. Oh, we need, I need to introduce the podcast.

Yeah. This is Walking the Dog. I'm with Matt Lucas. I'm Emily Dean. I'm with his two dogs. It's Hobb. That's hob there. That's Hobb there. And Milo.

And Milo, yeah. And Hobb is a... He's a Labrador with some German Shepherd in him, and he's eight and a half, and he barks nonstop. And Milo is 10 and a half, and he's a chocolate Labrador. But we're in a lovely area of London. London. West London.

And I would say, I'd describe where you live as very Richard Kursis. Yeah, it is a bit, isn't it? Although we're not in Notting Hill, but it is... No, that's true. We're not that far from there. No. It's lovely, yeah. I live in the US now.

I thought you did now. But this is where I am when I'm here. Yeah. So, for instance, no, don't eat petals, Milo. Milo, come. Good boy. And we'll put the leads on them now. Shall we?

Okay. Hobby, come. So you're saying you're in, you're in L.A. a lot of the time now, aren't you? Yeah, so I'm in L.A. a lot of the time. But the last year, I've been in Wales. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah, because you've been doing Doctor Who?

I want a hobby. Yeah. Well done, Milo. Milo come. My welcome. Good boy. So I've been doing Doctor Who. Yeah. And because I was going to be away from home for about a year, I brought the dogs back over from the States. And is that complicated at all, bringing them over, or is it okay? Well, all these people tell me these stories about how you can kind of say that they're a service dog or a compassion dog. There's some weird phrase. It's not that. Do you know the phrase I'm talking about? Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can take them on the plane for free.

Yes, yeah. No, mine dogs go in the hole. But I mean, they really have, they've been to America five years ago when I moved there. And a year ago they came back and they've been here for a year. And we're all going back in three weeks. So I don't take them back and forth very often. Let's go this way. He's going to. Well, because we're going, he thinks we're going to the park.

Hobbes charging ahead. I love it. I'll swap you. So, yeah. You know what, I'm going to have the old man of the sea. You have the young buck. Yeah. Come on.

I'm going to have you. I'm going to swap over it. Come here. go. So have you always had dogs now? No. No, never had dogs and my late partner really wanted a dog. So Milo was the dog we got together and Hobb was the dog he got shortly before he died and so I took him in. So yeah so these are my these are my dogs. Yes, so I never really planned on having dogs. Really? Were you a doggy person when you were growing up? You know I was terrified and in fact my

memories of being you know a child or a going on a play day to someone's house when I was sort of four or five, six years old and somewhere in Stammore, you know, with those corrugated glass windows on the front door and you'd ring the bell and you'd hear a dog barking and you'd see the paws of a giant dog up against the glass. And then I would just be sort of freaked out and terrified. And there would always be whoever's mum holding the dog back of having to shut the dog in a room because I was too afraid of dogs. Which, I mean, when you're small, dogs are enormous.

No, I'm not allergic to dogs. I am actually allergic to cats. Oh, are you? Which is a shame because cats are brilliant. I love cats. Selfish bastards, though, Matt. They are, but... You know?

That's fine. But I love cats. But unfortunately, I'm allergic to them. So I'm sort of getting a really strong idea of your childhood because I just finished reading your book, your new book, which is out. Yeah. It's called...

It's Little Me. Little Me. The A to Z of Matt Lucas. That's right. Because I thought, I'll do an autobiography, but I just didn't want to start at I was born, blah, blah, blah. So what I've done is that there's a chapter for every letter of the alphabet. Which I really like.

So B is for baldness and G is for gay and J is for Jewish and on like that. And then so I can really get into subjects and leave out the boring bits. Let's go right. Let's just walk around here. We'll just walk up and maybe we'll go by the canal. We're coinciding with the school kids coming out. I'm sure the labs are going to go down well. Maybe we'll go up near Little Venice.

Okay, oh lovely. But yeah, I really, really loved your book. You painted such a vivid picture of your childhood. And I had this sense of you as this little boy who just seemed sort of quite a lot of odds stacked against him in some ways. Yeah, lots of people have odds stacked against them. I don't have a monopoly on it. But yeah, there were things, you know, little challenges here and there.

I lost my hair when I was six. Yeah. And so that just kind of, that would give people a focus on me that I probably wouldn't have had. You think so, yeah. And there's just, you know, other things. But everyone's got their things to deal with, haven't they? But I thought, I remember when I was reading it and you were talking about how,

I didn't even thought of that matter, that actually back then losing your hair, they weren't, you say, there weren't bald role models. You couldn't go and get wigs easily, you know. There weren't many. Some children. Hello. Hello. A little dog, that's not a really nice.

He's a lovely dog. I'm mortally offended. Child called my dog a silly dog. Come on silly dog. Come on silly dog. But yeah, you told this story about having to, you know, you go to a wig and where do you go? There's like one shop or something, isn't there? Yeah, I got a wig on the National Health Service.

In fact, I got two, I got a spare one. And they didn't make wigs for children then. I don't even know if they do now. So I was given this kind of ladies buffin wig. and it was sort of about three times larger than my head. And I wore it more like a hat than a wig. And of course I had no eyebrows, so it just looked so incongruous. And I wore it for some of, I think in my last term or two at primary school,

you know, because the idea was that I would wear the wig at secondary school. That was the plan. But I wore it at primary school and it was just too hot, too itchy. And I just thought, what happens if I go to secondary school? school and then one day, three years in, it just falls off or blows off, then everyone will know and I'll look ridiculous. So I think I'd better just be me. And actually, I find that interesting that you were saying that, you know, you were sort of always used to having attention on you in some way, weren't you?

Yeah, I had it whether I liked it or not. Once my hair fell out because you could never, could never hide in the crowd really after that. Yeah. But then I suppose you turned that into a positive thing, you know? Well, it's sink or swim, isn't it? I mean... Yeah, exactly. You know, what are you going to do with that attention? Was the question I had to ask myself from a young age, you know.

But, you know, if you look at it, it was a cosmetic thing. But kids used to tell me that I had leukemia. And I thought maybe I do. And no one's told me. So sometimes I wondered if it was the beginning of the end, which is quite a strange childhood. The other thing that was quite weird was that everywhere where I went, kids would just say, you've got no hair, you've got no hair.

Younger kids, older kids, you got no hair. And it was a source of great amusement for people and fascination. And some people just thought it looked awful and some people said, oh, it's so cute. But it was very objectified, I think. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah. And did you, it sounds like with your parents, though, I think I met your mum years ago. I can't remember, but they, it seems like your childhood seems like what I was.

would describe coming from North London myself as your classic sort of North London middle-class childhood North West London middle-class Jewish childhood. It was until until that happened and that just was it was just slightly strange and then also the other thing that happened my parents split up and I write about this in the book but my dad went to prison and that was just a strange thing to have to deal with because it wasn't like I lived on a street where one in five people knew someone or their parents or brother or someone who's gone to prison. You know, I didn't live in that kind of part of town.

There was no template for that, yeah. No, I didn't really have a frame of reference for it other than the TV show Porridge. So I probably thought it was more fun than it was. And that was then also at your school, because that was you were at Haberdashers, I think, when that happened, won't you? I was. I was in my first year at Haberdashers where I was really struggling anyway, academically. So it was quite a lot was going on.

And I was studying for my bimitsvah as well at the time, which as any Jewish man or woman who's been through it will tell you, it is the most, well, it's the biggest event in your life. And it's a day when you're going to have so much attention lavished on you. And what no one really tells you is that if you were to make a mistake when you read from the Torah, you know, the Bible, in front of the congregation, It doesn't probably matter.

But no one gives you that sense at all. I mean, it is seen as a vitally important thing that you read immaculately, that you sing immaculately. And even though I was like, I like doing school plays and stuff, it was still for every Jewish kid, just untold stress.

Well, it was interesting because you also talk about what you sort of had a weird two-bomitzvah thing. Because you had one at home with your mum, and then your dad, you'd come out of prison by that point? He had, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just a different, it was a very different kind of, because I went to this, yeah, because I went to this private school,

and there was a lot of money going around, but we just didn't really have any, so it was a very different kind of more modest affair. And again, I didn't really have a frame of reference for that. I'd only been to really lavish ones. But, of course, that doesn't matter remotely. When you're a kid, it was just unusual. There seemed to be things about my life that are unusual.

But, you know, I write this thing in the book about my friend Michael, who has cerebral palsy. And, I mean, the challenges he faced at school and in life were far greater than any that I faced. It was important as well. Like I said, and I do say this during the book, that although I did have a kind of challenging childhood, that it wasn't, there are challenges and there are challenges, you know what I mean? And mine were challenges that could definitely be met and dealt with. Of course, but I think it's interesting, isn't it? Because it's your life and you don't know any other life.

No, you don't. And you've cope with it the best you can and you've made it turned your life into a quite extraordinary, incredible life. A kind of inspirational life, I would say. Why stop there? I've gone all Oprah on you. No, I do. I really do. But I relate to when you're talking about going to school.

I very much relate to being the sort of poorest kid in the posh school, which does sound very old, the world's smallest violin playing. Come on, I don't feel sorry for you. But what it teaches you, I think, is to, I always felt slightly other, for that reason, which isn't a huge thing, I know. But I felt different to everyone else, you know. It's that thing of, they'd come to my house. I remember lying and saying, oh, we've got 17 bedrooms.

Well, they were going to find out, Matt. Why did I lie? Well, it's an interesting thing that I've found since, you know, in adulthood is when I've encountered people who went to my school. Yes. I've learned that... Which way meant this way? We're by the canal. It's very lovely here.

It's lovely, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, let's cross over. I'm following Lucas here. Go on. I've learned that many people have come up to me and said, oh, I had a really hard time at school. And actually, we didn't have the money that everyone else seemed to have. And I struggled academically.

And I was like, oh, I thought I was the only one. Yeah. And actually, there were a lot more people. people who were struggling with it, but there was some kind of conspiratorial nature in the school that you just didn't talk about that, you know? Yeah. You had to put on a face that everything was hunky dory. But I was basically the stupidest person in a school of really clever people. Really?

Yeah. When you say stupid, I think you, it's a different kind of intelligence, isn't it? And you were a smart... Well, let's say it was one that hadn't developed yet. Yeah, I was just completely. completely out of my depth. But you had a performer's intelligence and you had a different kind of, yeah, exactly. I had, I had enough I learned in adulthood to get by.

Yeah. But I just, it wasn't easy to use the skills that I had in that environment particularly. And did you feel when you realised that you were funny and you could make people laugh, which I presume happened at a relatively young age? It kind of, yeah, I could kind of, I was indulged a bit, but there was this, there's definitely a moment. which happened when I was about... It was actually after I'd been doing school plays and stuff. It was actually there was a moment at a sleepover when I was about 15 or 16

where I just sat on a chair in the middle of the night. Everyone was in their sleeping bags and the kind of, you know, there was about 20 school friends and they said, oh Matt, you know, you're funny, make us laugh. And then I just did about an hour. Really? Yeah, about the school and about stuff like that. And everyone was in tears crying with laughter.

And I thought, oh, this is interesting. Because I didn't even know that anybody was going to ask me to be funny. Also doing impressions of people, teachers and teachers and pupils. And even then, funnily enough, doing impressions that were clearly not even accurate impressions. And that's some of, you know, if you look at like Dennis Waterman in Little Britain that we did or stuff we did in Rock Profile where we go out of our way to do impressions that are inaccurate. and yet somehow get away with them. Sorry, Milo's seen a squirrel and it's all kicking off.

He won't get that squirrel. Even if you took the lead off, that squirrel will... Really? Does he get... What's going on here? Because squirrels can go up trees and my dog can't. Oh, they're fast, yeah. He likes him, though. Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, so you realised that you were kind of...

You had funny bones. Well, I thought this is a good sensation. I discovered it as well as where everybody else seemed to discover it in that moment, that night. Yeah. And it was... Look at my dog. They love those squirrels. I'm going to let my dogs off the lead.

They're not going to get the squirrels. Should we let my little off the leaves? Yeah, yeah, let them off. They won't get the squirrels, don't worry. This is so exciting. I'm not a psychopath, there's no chance of them getting squirrels. Look, now that he's been left off the lead, he's got no interest. This is men all over, I tell you.

You won't get a squirrel, Milo. No, it's not going to happen. Oh, we've got a poo though. Come on, let's go and deal with the poo. This is, sorry, you can't see, but it's actually me that's done the poo. Yeah, so you, so that's interesting. So you had, that's interesting. that sense and you thought, right. But then presumably that's nice because you think, well,

I may not be academic, but I've got this in my locker now. And I know maybe this will be something. Yeah, and I think that's what happened. Oh, the other one's doing one now. Why don't I do the other poo? I might be able to fit them both in the same bag. You know what? I love that about you. Always, always thinking of the economy drive here. Yeah. Well, it's good for the environment. It's good for the environment. Oh, he's kicked it at us. It's fine, the other one. You had old... Where is it? Now, where is this poo?

There is, no, hang on. Hang on. I can't see it. Okay, wait, Matt. Where is it? I think he did kick it. What, the whole poo? I swear he kicked the poo.

Well, where is the poo? That was the unsuccessful follow-up to I kissed a girl. I kicked the poo. I kicked a poo and I liked it. And he liked it. Where is the poo? Seriously, because we're in kind of green area. Is it?

Where did he put it? There's one bit of poo. Okay. I've seen one poo. Oh, yes. Well, well, darn. But that's not the whole poo, is it? No.

Milo, where did you do your... Oh, here it is. Do you know what? He's just done that. That's cold. I think that might be another dog's poo, but I'll pick it up anyway. What a mench I am. I think that was it.

Always pick up a poo. I like... Do you like that about being a dog owner? Like, I always think... I like that responsibility, because I think for my mental health, and that sounds weird, but I like that I get up and have to walk a dog and... Yeah, because sometimes, right, I go out and about. and everybody's very nice to me, like unnaturally nice to me.

Yeah. And then, and like, if I want a cup of tea, no one will let me make it and all that kind of stuff. When you're working with me. Yeah, yeah. And it's all of that, you know, somebody waits outside in a nice car to drive you to a job, you know, that they've laid on a car for you and all that. And Milo, wait. And then I get home and, you know, my dogs are just looking at me like, yeah, you're going to take us out.

And then I take them out and it's raining. and then they do their business in the rain and I've got to clear it all up and dry them and it's just a bit more grounding, isn't it? It's important to have something. Are you aware of that, do you think? Because I mean, we, you know, I've never thought of you as very someone who sort of is like,

right, I'm here, darling's on the red carpet, you know. No, I don't really do much red carpet, to be honest with you. I've been to very few film premieres and all that because I just have a slightly better time at the multiplex kicking my shoes off and having some Ben and Jerry's and, you know what I mean? I do. with a friend, I sort of enjoy that a bit more.

I think the one thing is, the thing about the red carpet is, I think if you felt more confident about who you were and how you looked, red carpet would probably be a blast. But me, the last thing I really want to do is be photographed. So if you see me on a red carpet, it's usually because I'm in the thing, or that's a very good friend

and I want to go and support them, but you won't find very many red carpet pictures of me, and that's probably a relief to all of us. I think the problem with red carpet, It feels a bit self-important, doesn't it? I think you're dependent, investing so much in the approval of other people.

And I think, as someone who's done a lot of therapy, I think that's the unhealthiest thing you can do, isn't it? It's to sort of put so much weight on that. So it's different to producing a bit of work or something like that, where you're saying I hope you like this. To just like stand there and ask to be judged like that

I think is a bit of stress. I think it's unnatural. Well, I think it's much harder for women. I do, yeah, you're right. I mean, every every flaw in imperfection is magnified hugely by the press. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You know, oh, you look too big. Oh, you look too thin. Oh, you look, you know. I mean, it's not so bad for me because I'm just a kind of blob. But, well, I just find them quite strange events because what happens is when you arrive at a red carpet event,

what happens is someone's talking to you, but their eyes are wondering the carpet while they talk to you in case there's someone more famous, which invariably, in my case there is. And so I've done interviews where they just stopped during what I'm saying and just walked over to someone else. I don't blame them. But it's an unusual affair. You know. So I mean if you're just going because you want to see a film, just go and see the film.

But if you want to see a film, my attitude is don't put a dress. I mean, you know, not that you're having to do that. But it's a lot of effort to go to to see a film. I'd rather just go to the film. Yeah. That's what I'm. Do you, um, well,

a little Brit. No, when that took off. Sorry. Milo. Come. Milo. Oh, he's going to try and eat all the stale bread.

Milo! Stale bread for the birds. Good. Oh, good. He's left it. Oh, that was good, Matt. That was really a big, wasn't it? I'm quite impressed by that.

He's trained him well. It's good. Hobby. Leave it. Oh, they all want the bread. Hobby. Hobby. It's very sheep dog train in the way you do that.

I like it. Quick the fingers. Hobby come. Well, do you know what they respond? Dogs respond to deep voices. Is that right? Yeah, they don't respond to higher voices apparently. No, I was going to ask it, you know, when you were doing Little Britain,

and that level of attention that you suddenly had on you was, I suppose nothing could prepare you for that. Because it's the dream, isn't it? And you were doing brilliant work that you were proud of, and it was... Well, I wouldn't... I mean, proud of some of it. I wouldn't... I wasn't, like, I don't have a kind of indiscriminate sense that everything we did was good.

remote I don't have that at all actually but having said that Matt when you started it was something you'd written it wasn't like you know what I'm saying is some people yeah we had a sense of ownership yeah you become famous and it's in someone else's vehicle that you're not whereas that was your thing you started it you created it and you thought but then is that a weird thing that's so Milo sorry I am listening

which is because we left him off the lead I don't know where he's gone now Milo I'm gonna go deep Milo good boy you see it works Milo there you go you see. Milo. Emily Deep.

Do you know, that was a bit George Dawes. You know when George Dawes turns. Milo, come over here. When George Dawes goes Ray Winston, which is my favourite. You touch. So you were saying about Little Britain when it went big. And again, you talked about that in the book,

about just that sort of slight insanity that happens to your life. Yeah, yeah. How did you kind of cope with that? Well, I was very lucky. I was in a very loving, happy relationship. So with someone who leave it, Hobby, hobby, no. Leave it, leave it. Good boy. Sorry, I might have to put them back on the lead. Shall we? Yeah. Let's put them back on. You can keep all that on. Basically, they were licking

something out of a polystyrene thing. Have you got him? What you like? Look Matt, how am I doing? Milo. Is that it? Good boys, yeah. Okay. Good boys. Yeah, you were saying? Yeah, so I was, I, I, I, To be honest with you, and my late partner wasn't interested in that world either, particularly. You know, he only ever once said, can we go to something, which was a Doctor Who related thing, because he was a big Doctor Who fan. So we just kept ourselves to ourselves largely. We weren't that fuss, and we just had a really happy life. Walliams was very much more able and willing to embrace the showbiz lifestyle, you know, and he was much more skilled at it, and I think he got a lot more out of it. You know, and he was just much more naturally sociable.

And, I mean, you know him, and you would see him around at things, wouldn't you? And you probably wouldn't see me at so many of them. And he was just very, he's very confident. I've got this weird thing, which is this prosopagnosia, which is face blindness, which I write about in the book. And so I find it very, very hard to recognise people, even people I know. And there's a whole chapter about it in the book. And so often that has slightly hindered me going to events. because of the social embarrassment of, you know,

because I can be in a conversation with someone for 20 minutes and go to the toilet and come back to resume the conversation and not know what they look like. Really? And not know, yeah. Yeah, things like that. That's extraordinary.

Yeah, I know, it's really weird, isn't it? So, hello? I love you to see you, man. Thank you, nice to see you. Thank you, man. Thank you very much. All the best. Thank you, I knew.

So he was much more able to deal with it and he loved and he enjoyed it. And then, you know, we'd start work each morning. And he would have all the tabloid paper. He'd buy all the papers and we'd look through them and he'd go, oh yeah, yeah, I met her. She was nice. He was nice.

He wasn't so nice. She was great. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Copt off with her. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And we'd go, oh, right. And then we'd write some sketches. But you were quite, um, disciplined about your, you know,

you very much start at 10. Yeah, I think I'm not naturally disciplined like that at all. but David's brilliant at it and so he kind of corralled the pair of us basically. And we'd start at 10 or seven minutes past, given my timekeeping. And we'd, uh, what kind of cockapoodle that is? It's not a cockapoodle. He's a Labrador with a bit of German shepherd in him.

Oh, right? I'm all right, thanks. Oh, cool. Okay, I got you. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Awesome.

Thank you. Thank you. See later. Bye-bye. I like being that's a woman. My lady. Look, some people are doing circus skills here. I like that.

That's brilliant. That's called, I think it's called a Diablo. Yeah. What is that? Yeah. So you were saying, yeah, so David had that, was quite disciplined about the... Oh yeah, David was really disciplined about it and really good at that. But it just worked.

The two of us. Is it called a Diabolo? Yeah, Diablo. I thought it was, yeah. We're saying these guys have got this thing. How would you describe it, Matt? It looks like an egg timer on the side. It is like a large blue egg timer.

Yeah. And these guys have each got a stick connected by a piece of string and they're balancing. It's a circus. It's a circus thing. Yeah. Come on, boy. With the sort of work you've done now,

I look at like you're doing Doctor Who and your sort of musical theatre star, which I'm so impressed by it. I don't know why, but it really impresses me. Well, I'm surprised that I've done, well, I've done a couple of musicals. What was the first one you did then? I did one called Taboo.

That was it, which I saw, yeah. You saw, yeah, which was about 15 years ago, a lot more now. And it was Boy George had written the music and it was Boy George's life story, but also the live story of some other people like Philip Salon and Marilyn. It's a brilliant soundtrack.

The songs are fantastic. And Luke Evans was in that, who's now got this kind of stellar Hollywood career. career. Yeah. Declan Bennett, who just played Jesus and Jesus Christ Superstar, it's a great acclaim and has had a great career. He was in that as well. And do you feel, I sort of look at your career and I think, well, that's sort of a lot of people's, that's a sort of dream career. I know it's hard to see when it's your career in a way, isn't it? You just, the phone rings and you think, well, that sounds interesting or I'll create

this and this sounds good. But, you know, it's, when you think of all the things that you've been able to do, does that, do you think, wow, you know, looking back, because it's not just a lot of people want to be a performer, they want to be a comic, but it feels to me like, yeah, I'm going to go Renaissance Man here. Well, Master of None. But, I mean, no, I'm really, really lucky. I'm really lucky.

I mean, the thing is, because I don't feel like everything I do has to be really big, because then it just takes the pressure off. And also, I think something happened with Little Britain is because it went as big as it did. I just said to myself, well, probably nothing. I ever do again will it be as big as that. So if I don't feel obligated to try and make it as big as that and if I can just liberate myself and just do the things I really want to do rather than think, oh, that's the right career move, that's the wrong career move, then actually

I can just have some fun and maybe challenge myself in new ways. So for instance, I did Les Miserables, but actually, you know, I did that concert and then I did three months in the West End. Now, if you were being really, really objectively careerist about it, at the time there was a really big Hollywood movie and the producer wanted me to do it off the back of Alice in Wonderland and I said no I'm really sorry I've done the Tim Burton movie that you've done yeah yeah and I and it because it was around that time and I said I'm really sorry I've committed to doing lame as a rab. Sorry about Milo seen a squirrel but you know what happens then? I don't blame him I'm

the same a squirrels little rats with tails don't like rats but ones with tails fabulous I know mylo come on you know what how this story ends you're not gonna get the girl you won't you won't ever you've never caught anything ever my lo Except the cold. Come on. Milo! Now I'm going to try this, hang on Matt. Milo. Milo.

You're just going to have to pull him. Milo. If we were being objective, you did very well, then to go into Le Mise, which has been open for 25 years, it's not like a big star shouldn't do that, go into something that's already been on for 25 years and take over. You know, big stars would be like, well, I have to originate the role or it's nothing, you know, all of that. Whereas I was like, oh, I don't care about that. I just loved to be in Les. Wouldn't that be the best thing in the world?

And it was even better than I could have dreamed. And so many of my friends today, I met on that show. And so because I kind of don't mind, because I just do the things I really want to do. Which is a nice position to be in that. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to ask you in the book, which I loved, I really found it interesting.

When you were talking about coming out... Don't tell anyone. Cut that bit out. No one knows. Not even my mother. Milo. she came to our wedding I just said it was a friend. Well your mother said something brilliant which was in retrospect obviously it's

brilliant at the time it might have been quite difficult but she said it was my thought I smothered you. Yeah well that's you know a time it's a period of time when people thought that there was a relationship between how much time a boy had spent with his mother and the boy's subsequent sexuality but I mean I don't think I think it's more nature than nurture. Yeah I mean acting upon those feelings might be more nurture because in some societies you're not allowed to act upon them but in terms of the inclination and the feeling that you should that is nature i believe but it's funny i remember no old fielding said once i can't remember in what context but he said i think people that come out he

said basically it's like they're super they have a superpower like they're superheroes he said most you know you think the guts that takes to say that to people but less so now i hope but have you know what? I've got to tell you, you know, one of the things everyone says is, oh, it's easier now. Do you think it isn't? And in liberal society, it's definitely easier now. I mean, there's no comparison. But actually, around the world, human rights are being eroded, and it's actually getting harder in some places. I think Milo ate that tissue. He didn't. I think he did. Oh, no, I'm going to really, minor come here. I really feel I've let you down if he's eating that tissue.

Oh, it's all right. No, but Matt, I was on Milo watch. Come on. Milo? It's gone. Oh, man. It's gone. It's not that I don't care. It's just that I knew. I wouldn't have been able to stop it.

He does what he wants. Oh, no, I feel terrible now. So, you're going back to L.A. In three weeks, yeah. You're done in Doctor Who? Well, I'm not allowed to say whether I am or not. That's how it works on Doctor Who. I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you.

Okay, I don't do that. So I do know the answer. Right. And I'm not going to tell you the answer, but I am going back to LA. I can tell you that. Okay, okay. Which are we going to go here? Yeah, we'll go back down here.

Yeah. I'm going back to LA and I'm going to start, I think. What are you doing now? Yeah, I was going to ask you. I want to write a musical of my own. That's so exciting. Music, lyrics, book the lot. You seem, I would say you seem quite comfortable with yourself.

Do you think that's fair to say? Yeah, comfortable with some aspects. I still think my weight is something that I still need to figure out because I'm bigger than I want to be. I don't feel like I have to be slim gym, but I'd like to shed, I'd like to lose a bit of this because it's a bit too much going on. But career-wise, there's things I want to do. And I'm not necessarily in the position where I can just get something made because I want to do it. It doesn't really work like that.

I'm not in that place. Is that not really? No, I don't think so. I don't think I'm as big as all that. The thing I would say is if there's something I don't want to do, I don't have to. have to do it. Right. So that is... Because you've made enough to feel comfortable, yeah. Well, I, you know, I'm also, I'm not like, I don't drive, so I don't have a car. I don't have kids, so I don't have school fees to pay for. I'm, I'm not like crazy grand. I don't have a,

I don't drink very much, so I don't have to worry about that. I don't have a drug habit. I don't smoke. So I think it's just that my outgoings are a bit less. Yeah. But no, my low, leave that. No, stop it. I mean, I've known you to have on and off and stuff, and I met you when you were with Kevin originally, I think. Yeah. I would say you seem, it was that French expression, happy in your skin. Like when I read the book, I think to be able to look back on your life with a sort of, I tell you it's interesting. I think you were being, you talked about yourself in a way that I found really moving, but I also think you were kind to yourself. Do you know what I mean? You weren't hard on yourself.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's very. other people to kind of reach conclusions about what they think the book is. Well, I'm the other person and that's my conclusion. Yeah, no, and I appreciate that. Somebody, Graham Norton read it and said... And what does he say? Well, he said he liked about it, there was no self-pity in it. And I thought, oh, that's good.

I agree. Because I wasn't really aware of that when I was writing it, but I'm really glad if he thinks that, because I think that is a really, you know, I think that is a really unattractive. Well, ironically, though, sometimes when there's no self-pity, I find that even more moving. though because it's matter of fact. Well, I just think that, you know,

I think there have been things in my life that have been really hard, but I don't think other people's lives are not hard and I, you know, and I don't, you know what I mean? So I'm not trying to write a book to say, oh, you don't realize what I've been through, because I think that's,

I don't know why anybody would do that. Well, I do think, though, like I found it helpful. I had a period when I lost, a lot of people. My sister died and then both my parents died. It was one of those shitty few years. I'm sorry to hear that. But what you said, Matt, about grief, I found really, I really liked and I thought you said, um, should go right? Uh, we can go up this way. Let's go left. Come on, Milo. Milo. Uh, actually, yeah, let's go right, actually. You said, this way, yeah? Yeah, let's go this way. You said about grief, sometimes it doesn't hit you then. You have a sort of

slightly delayed reaction. Do you know what to me? So you were saying, you know, you're, you're be fine and you'll keep going and then suddenly it slightly hits you like a truck. A couple of years later you think, oh, what's this? Yeah, well, I... And everyone around you has used up their reserves in a way. I think that... Compassion. Yeah, I actually, I think what I meant to say was that sometimes, I mean, I didn't do this,

but I'm saying sometimes people, they feel obligated, there's that word again. Especially in this country, Britain. Yeah. A collection of countries, I suppose. they feel obliged to sort of put that brave face on it and just crack on. And actually what happens is that you're... Cool, dogs. What happens is that you're not going to not grieve.

So if you delay your grief by a couple of years, then when you finally kind of confront it, everyone else has kind of moved on. And then they don't cut you any slack. Yeah. So the thing I always say is that like yeah in the kind of month or two when something happens you're just kind of in shock but in those year or two that follows that from having lost a partner and a parent I would say unapologetically unashamedly grieve if you need to and want to and have to and don't feel you have to spare anyone's blushes not least your own by sort of you know by kind of compartmentalising it because. Because if you come to conclusions a year or two down the line that really make you need to stop and grieve, people just, they won't comprehend it, they won't understand it and they won't cut you any slack. Yeah.

So use that time you have when someone dies. Use it then and there. Use it. And don't drown your sorrows and don't do drugs and just do it. because I went to a therapist, a bereavement counsellor. I was going to ask you, yeah. Yeah, and she just said, look, you're going to have this with you for the rest of your life. So it's up to you.

You can either just kind of take drinking drugs, neither of which I was doing anyway, actually, I should say. You can either just take drinking drugs and self-medicate for the rest of your life, or you can confront this now and reach some conclusions and actually move on. And it was just the best advice anyone had given me. It's really objective advice. Do you find therapy useful? often, I do, I haven't actually had it for quite a while. Have you not? Yeah. No, I've been kind of busy and I go, so I don't have it like every week.

I mean, I'll go through periods where I'll have it for a few months. You're not like in analysis, yeah, but you... No. It's interesting, Matt, I only ask, because I'd say I'd put myself in that category because I have weekly therapy. But then I sort of think, actually, I think it's a good thing to, if you know it's there, it's nice. You know, if they're... Yeah, that's what I mean, I don't want to do, in saying that, I don't want to dismiss therapy or I'm actually really pro therapy and it's it's really helped me in my life

but I think it's been really good for me but me personally I don't do it every week I don't do it as a matter of course when when there's something that is playing on my mind and I feel I need to to figure out some conclusions then I go and see a therapist for you know a month or a few months to try and deal with it you know I mean so and so I definitely feel that I would definitely recommend it yeah the right therapist definitely. And so we're going to cut back to your lovely little house now. Yeah. It's cute.

I'm really, I know, but I'm really enjoyed coming out with the dogs because I just think I've got a really small dog, I've got a Shih Tzu. And it's a very different experience having a small dog. These are like, this is like taking two big men out on a league. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? This way, boys.

This way. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, they're very willful. I quite like it, though. And they've got strong personalities and, So when you walk them, you know, it's the three of you going for a walk. It's not you walking two dogs. It's three of you going for a walk because there's things they want to do, places they want to go. And so you have to decide, well, okay, we were going to go here, but they really want to go there.

All right, let's go and explore that. You've got to look after them. And do you have, when you're in L.A., do you have dog walkers or anything like that? Yeah, I've got some help in L.A., but I do like to walk them as well. What's it like, do you like L.A.? I don't never walk them. What's the best thing about L.A.? and what's the difficult thing?

Because everyone's so positive there, Matt. Whenever I go over there, they're all quite self-promoting in a brilliant way that I'm quite jealous of because they're like, hi, my name is, and I'm like, oh my god, I can. They're the neighbours dogs. What are they like? They're very nice.

The thing I think about LA is you have to make your own LA. You have to work out what it is for you because it's kind of anonymous. Yeah. And so I just got there and I just made a few, really good friends, close friends, some of whom I knew already from the UK that had already gone out there. And you just have to decide what you want out of it. And I didn't go to LA looking for anything professionally. So I'm very lucky in that regard because obviously... So did you go for

more sort of personal reasons? Yeah, I just went to kind of... To get some warm weather and just to get a bit of privacy and a bit of... just more for grieving, but also just to try it and see. And then I'm lucky because I can work out there. So, and I do work out there. But I'm not there calling my agent up every week going, oh, where's my audition? Do you get everyone coming up to you about bridesmaids all the time? Yeah, actually. Yeah, yeah, because it's a really popular film out there.

Yeah, it's so brilliant. It's so good. Yeah. Okay, Matt, I've got on that final question. Do the dogs allow on the bed? Never. Never. Really?

Why's that? You're a non-bed person. Too big? Well, I think there's a few things, isn't it? One is they just would leave such. a mess on that bed and the mess I leave is bad enough. I've had worse babe. No they're very messy and they're you know they walk in dirt and everything like that.

So it's from a hygiene point of view it's not good but also you've got you know as much as you've got your space the dogs have got their space and it's like they have their bed which I don't lie on and I have my bed which they don't lie on and they need their space and I need my space. Yeah. And somebody told me that if your dog sleeps with you then he starts to think he's higher status than you because he's occupying your space. he's occupying your space. And then, and then. That's that I mean. Yeah, yeah.

But the thing is then when a dog thinks it's higher status, then the dog takes on all the worries of the house and all the anxieties. And the dog becomes. My dog sleeps at the top of the pillow. That's a bad sign. But it is a bad sign because then the dog will feel dominant, right?

And then the dog will feel it has to protect you, irregardless of everything. And then every time the doorbell rings, every time anything happens, the dog is constantly on guard. He's on high, love. Yeah. So in a way, to. say to a dog here's your space that you come to and that's your area that you can you know

do whatever you want over there then and they clearly see that it's less than yours that you're taking away the pressure of status from them that's what I've been told dog trainer yeah that's because I mean I'd love to hug my dogs in bed I mean I'd love my dogs to sleep in the bed with me it's not that I don't want to it's just that I've been told it's absolutely not what you should do the other thing is dogs need routine and so because I'm because of my job some nights I'm tour I'm away and then it's no good for the dog if some nights they're in my bed and some nights they're not and then some nights there might not be room in my bed for two dogs and then they're suddenly turfed out and that's not good if there isn't room if you know what

I mean you don't want them leaving you a little present either well there's all of that so yeah yeah exactly so so routine is really important for dogs so they have their lovely beds he hobbs in his bed Milo Hump's his bed I'my mylo Humps his bed I really love I love these dogs. Yeah, they've got a really, do you know what? I think they've got a very nice energy, like their owner. Yeah, I used to take Milo to Arsenal with me actually. Did you?

You know what I'm impressed why? Not allowed anymore. I should say Matt Lucas today, virtually everything he's wearing has some sort of arsenal. Oh yeah, I just didn't realise, but actually my jumper and my jacket have both got Arsenal-crested. He's pushing an open door here, babe. Yeah. You're fine. I really enjoyed this, Matt.

Can I give you a hug? It's so nice to see you. I know you've got to dash off now. Thank you very much. It's lovely to see you. So lovely. And I love your book and everyone needs to buy your book because it's so good. And it's called Little Me.

Little Me. I hope people like it and yeah, no, they do. I can write something else. I don't know what. Oh, Matt. Thank you so much. Right. You're going to get these boys in?

Yeah. Say bye-bye. You don't bark, Milo, but Hobb does. Hobb, say goodbye. Bye. Hope you enjoyed that. Please remember to rate and review and subscribe on iTunes. And my dog thought for today is, why is it always good boy?

Never great boy. Thank you.