Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Michael Whitehall and Hilary Whitehall

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

This week Emily went for a stroll in Putney with Michael and Hilary Whitehall and their dog, Philomena. They chatted about their early years, their new podcast The Wittering Whitehalls and cleared up a few inaccuracies from Jack’s episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You don't really like dogs, do you? No. I'm certainly not doggy. I do not want to speak to random people about their dogs. I mean, that is the most crashingly boring. Whereas Hillary's the opposite. She'll run at somebody to say, oh, your dog is so sweet. What is it?

This week on walking the dog, Raymond and I popped over to London's Putney to take a stroll with wonderful Hillary and Michael Michael Whitehall and their dog, Philomena, or as they like to call her, Philly. I say they like to call her. I suspect Michael secretly thinks it's a shade informal. Now, I've already had their son Jack Whitehall on this podcast, and Hillary was keen to clear up a few inaccuracies.

So, Jack, your mother's not obsessed by her dog, Philly's just a little high maintenance. Think Michael with a tale. We chatted about all sorts. Michael's childhood Pekingese Fox Grove candy floss. I know. lot to unpack, and Hillary's dog, who her brothers nicknamed the Gid. We also talked about their respective early years and how they ended up meeting when Michael was a hot-shot agent and Hillary was an actor,

and it was nearly a non-starter because Hillary didn't call him back for two weeks. She was away at the time. But still, what a boss move, total icon. They also told me about their reaction to Jack going into show business and how they instilled this work ethic in not just Jack, but also their son Barney and daughter Molly. Of course, we also discuss their brilliant new podcast, The Whittering White Halls, which is essentially their take on Esseka and life lessons, and it is a total joy.

So do give it a listen. Spending time with the White Hors is just heavenly. They're so funny and such a genius double act, but they're also really charming, lovely people. And you get the sense that however fun all this showbiz stuff is, their absolute priority is their family and their kids. Basically, I need them to adopt me. Clear out Jack's old room, Mrs W.

Raymond and I are moving in. Michael, you'll grow to love having us around. Trust me. Please do give the Wittering Whitehall's a listen and don't forget to rate review and follow this podcast. I'll shut up now and hand over to the gorgeous couple themselves. Here's Hillary and Michael and Philly and Raymond. Oh, this is such a nice cafe.

I think he'll bring you up on the podcast. So I wanted to meet... Philly. because this woman is literally a same and she kept just going in lockdown. This is the Whitehall's local cafe. Philly, stop it. That was Michael, I apologize.

Stop barking. Stop. This is Lulu. Are you Lulu? It's me and my mum. It's Amy because it was a Lou. I love it. White with two sweeteners, please.

Are you all right? You will look at me? No, I'm fine. Thank you very much. Michael doesn't approve of people having We had one of those, like the Picanese, of course. That's not a Piquinies. Thank you.

He's an imperial shih Tzu. Well, we had a Picanese. My mother called it Fox Grove candy floss, but it was a male. So it's called candy floss, but it was a male. Everyone, and it was called candy floss. It clearly didn't like being called candy floss. It's why I bit everybody.

Come on, Raymond. Lovely, thank you. Come on, Philly. Right, Emily, I should point out that we're about to do one of Michael's absolute pet hates, which is walk along a street with a coffee looking suitably current. Very. Look out of the window of my beautiful house and the river and people are walking along like that again. Do you not believe in...

...tolding one hand and coffee in the other and they never look at the river or anything around and they just go and talk to each other. Oh, it's nice here, isn't it? here isn't it that's your coffee yes or they're looking at their phones or they're looking at their phones do you think it's rude to sort of consume in public to eat and drink I do yeah so we are literally the pits I don't travel on the grounds anymore and the overground trains this baby is so adorable and he's riveted to what Michael's saying hello hello baby boy is it a little boy little girl oh baby girl look at you

Are we going this way? We're going this way. Well, I'm going to let the white holes lead the way. Bye, Amy. This way, right. Bye. Delicious coffee, thank you. Bye.

Lovely to meet you. And your lovely cafe. That baby had a slight look of a young Winston Churchill about it. Did you notice that? I think she had more hair than Winston Churchill. If it had a cigar in his hand, it would have looked sort of dead ringer for Winston. for Winston. Now, oh my God, Philly.

Philly! Come here. So Philly, for some reason, has a thing about those two dogs who are brothers and they're very sweet owners who I love. Yeah. But she knows when they walk past the house even when she's in the house. Oh, they're like her nemesis. Are they two borders?

They're actually not borders and I can't remember what they are. And what's the problem with them? She hates them. But why? I don't know. They're very nice, those there, they're two. gentlemen sharing. They are. That's a very old-fashioned way of putting it.

Two gentlemen sharing an apartment up the road. They are a couple, Michael, I think is the word you're groping for. Oh, look at this. This is rather lovely. Full of football ground. Will you explain our beautiful... I mean, I should introduce you first, formally. These two need no introduction. I haven't been this excited about a duo in quite some time.

Do you do a lot of duos then? I do. Yes. I do occasionally. I did Michael Owen and Gemma Owen. Oh yes. Who's now Love Islanding. I'm with the very wonderful Michael and Hillary Whitehall.

And we are in Putney Embankment by the river. We're opposite the new Fulham football ground stand. Stand. Which costs a huge amount of money. money very well spent by the very nice calm family who own football, the own Fulham football there are two dogs coming along here. Yes, two Norfolk's, which Michael, you love a Norfolk, don't you? I do, I used to have a Norfolk, Tarrier.

Raymond's found his people with these Norfolk, do you see? Yeah. Unfortunately, Michael's Norfolk went with the previous incumbent to be. It went with my last... Part of the separation settlement, was Bentley, had to be... Bentley had to go with her. Not that I fought to keep Bentley. I was very happy.

It was the other thing she took that I didn't like, like bits of furniture, yes. I should add that he calls me, he refers to me as his current wife. Well, you are my current wife, but. So what I have to live with. And my answer to that is you couldn't afford it, so don't even go there. Mm-hmm. She's got a point. Yeah. Can you introduce us to your beautiful dog?

Yes, Filomena. Well, you've just heard that she's actually, she's a terrier. She's part terrier. So Filomena is a cavar poo mother and a Westy poo daddy. But I think the dominant gene in Philly is definitely terrier because one, she malts for Britain, even though she's half poodle. And two, she lacks the intelligence of a poodle. And all her siblings were brown, sort of biscuity colour, poodily. Pretty, long hair. And this one dog, this one white dog, was the only dog they had left. All the others had been bought.

And I said to the owner, who was a very posh lady, living in Kensington. Kensington summer, very posh lady. And she said, I said to her how much. She said, I've told you how much the puppies are. And I said, no, no, I mean how much that one? Because the other ones are all lovely and curly and brown and beautiful. And this one is an ugly little runt of the litter. You said, oh, I think it's quite sweet.

I said, well, we haven't come here for a white dog. So what sort of discount can you do? Oh, I don't know about that. I'll have to talk to my husband. Well, I said he's in the next room. Why don't you go and ask him? So they came, she came back. And they knocked off, I can't remember what they knocked.

100 quid. Oh, that's such a touching story. Bless her. So I thought, right. Well, if it's 100 quid cheap, I'll. Why not? That made you love her more, I think. Can I just say, though, that we actually had gone to look at this litter of puppies

much against my better judgment because we just lost our very long-term family dog, Charlie, who was 16 when he finally went. And a friend of mine said, oh, a litter of puppies has come into my orbit. And I said, no, don't want a puppy. We're about to move house. Definitely don't want a puppy. She said, I think you should just go and have a look at me. I said, no, I don't want a puppy.

And she said, I think if you go and look at them, you don't have a puppy. to come away with one but I think it would be good for you just to sort of cast an eye on them. So I said, what are you not understanding about the words, I do not want a puppy? Anyway, I said to Michael, I've got to go and look at this litter of puppies with Anne because she's insisting I go, and Michael says, I think I'm going to come because we are definitely not having a puppy. I'm going to be the voice of reason. So we go, look at the puppies. I fall in love with Philly. And Michael said, I said, what do you think, Michael? He said, well, I think we've got to have them.

I said, sorry, what happened to the voice of reason? You see, Michael, you said, one of the first things you said when I met you this morning was, you don't really like dogs, do you? No. That's such a lie? What do you mean? I mean, I quite like my own dog once I've got a dog, because it's good for walking and it lies on the bed at night and it's very sweet.

been like you Michael. So I quite like dogs. He missed that. I like my dog but I'm certainly not doggy. I do not want to speak to random people about their dogs and all that kind of stuff. I mean that is the most crashingly boring whereas Hillary's the opposite she'll run I mean she'll literally run at somebody to say oh your dog is so sweet what is it I mean I love doing that. Because you go through it's the social contract. What's yours called?

Yep. Lovely to meet you. Goodbye. Well, as long as you're doing that quickly, yes. One of the last people I went up to because he was in casual clothing and a hat and a very, very cute terrier. So I said, oh, I love that dog.

He said, yes, he came from Battersea. So I said, oh, if I ever get another dog, that's the sort of dog I want. And then I realised who it was. And I went, Oh, I've just realised who you are. How exciting to meet you, Mr. Gandhi. David Gandhi. Not my hat, no.

Not my hat, no. Anyway, I then had a long chat with Mr. Gandhi. And had I not commented on the dog, I would have missed this opportunity. Well, he's been on this podcast. Yes, with that dog. And he listens to this. David Gandhi, I love you. And you did say that you would potentially find me a dog at Battersea

that looks like your dog. What do you think of Hillary hanging out? with David Gandy, Michael. Fine. He has the most beautiful wife and two gorgeous daughters. And she's a lawyer. Yes, Marl Clooney, basically.

Yeah. Now listen, never mind Gandy, Mahatma or David. Yeah. I want to go back to your sort of doggy origin stories just to see... Yes, because I've got to make some corrections actually to Jack.

We're going to do it. We're going to do it because Jack Whitehall has appeared on this podcast. Yes, we listen to it. A man who has no interest. in dogs, even less interest in dogs than me. He used to say to me, he'd say to me, Philly was on the sofa, he'd say, with Jack.

Jack would say, Daddy, could you get the dog off the sofa please? I'd say, I beg a problem? He said, can you get the dog off the sofa? It's got a name, Jack. Yeah, well, whatever. Did you have dogs, Michael, when you were growing up? I did. You had the Pekingese.

My mother was obsessed with having a... with having a pick-a-kinease and also she wanted one that was from the Jockey Club order it's called The Kennel Club! The Jockey Club! She wanted one of those with a pedigree and a document. That would be really interesting from the Jockey Club because it would be a horse. So she got this dog and she was very proud of the certificate which was inframed in the sitting room. and the dog was called Fox Grove candy floss because we lived in somewhere called Fox Grove Avenue

and I don't know why she called it candy floss because it was a boy which was a sort of oddish name for boy come on Philly and it bit everybody and it was very uncomfortable with people and I think it was mainly because it was given a girl's name they didn't like it and it didn't like it Didn't it once take a chum out of the vicar?

Yeah, because the vicar went down the nearest feeding bottle, and that was a mistake. My mother was Catholic and she sucked up to the Catholic priest. This is Nora, isn't it? This is Nora. And the Irish Catholic priests used to come over for tea. The minute he came in, Foxgrove candy floss went for it because candy floss clearly didn't like far. O'Malley, I think he was called.

You moved around a bit, didn't you? Moved around quite a lot. Yeah. But mainly suburban sort of places like Beckenham. It's Kent, Michael. And then we, what? It's Kent. It was Kent.

You used to say to everyone at school, I live in Kent. When your people live. When I went to school, boarding school, and the boys there were all terribly posh, much posh of me. And I always pretended, you know, people would say, I said, oh, Whitehall, where do you live? I live in Kent.

I said, oh, Johnny Good. But actually, I lived in a house that was probably a quarter of a mile away from somewhere called Penge. And Penge was Penge East, which was London, east, not East London, South East London. So I lived in the suburbs of London, but dressed it up as living in Kent. Yeah. Then my parents got a bit of money. That was the grand... You had a wealthy...

Well, there was... That's like a Dickens novel, isn't it? Because the wealthy benefactor took in your grandfather and sort of changed, was really left quite a big legacy. It did. Enough for my parents

to then go up market. And we had a very nice flat in Pomp Street in... just off Knightsbridge so a big jump from Beckenham to Pont Street. And meanwhile what was going on in your household? Well my parents were fairly nomadic until I arrived they'd sort of done their nomads period. I'm the youngest of four because I've got three older brothers

so by the time I was born they had actually quite radically because my mother was an orphan she'd been left some money and she bought a plot of land. So she was orphaned very early and brought up by various branches of the family. And when she hit 21, she obviously got this small legacy from her parents. So she bought a plot of land in Sussex and then my parents built their own house. In the style of an architect called Walter Gropius, I think he was Scandinavian and it was basically a wooden block, a box. And the whole of the road that they lived in in Sussex, East Sussex on the edge of Ashwick, Down Forest were horrified because it was very 60s and very cutting edge.

So they were quite rebellious. So they were quite sort of artsy, bohemian? They were. And what did they do? My father was what would now be called a management consultant. So he was an industrial psychologist, was what it was called then. He used to work in industry, but dealing with people's sort of mindsets and, you know, just basically testing what were people's strengths and weaknesses and how they could improve,

within companies. So he worked for, he did quite a lot for the civil service, actually, and companies, various other companies. He was a freelance. And my mother was a psychiatric

social worker dealing with children. She worked in a child guidance clinic. So all very heady, head stuff. But we had, when I was little, a dog not dissimilar to this Raymond,

because she was a, not a cavalier, but a King Charles Spaniel. But again, rather like this dog was left, we got when we got to the litter there was one dog left

who was the runt her tongue stuck out in time she had a genetic defect so she had this tongue that was literally about a bit of bench work yeah literally two inches long oh do you know that's like

Carrie Fisher's dog was like that oh yes should we sit on the bench yeah so one of the corrections I'd like to make to Jack's podcast to Jack's podcast so I'm going to call this podcast instead of an interview

with the White Horse Let's call it a rebuttal. A rebuttal, absolutely. The white hole's a revoc. Philly, shut the fuck up. Sorry. Sorry, listeners. Jack said I'm obsessed with this dog.

One thing I would like to say about dogs, okay? I'm a dog mother, here's what he calls me. Is that, as you well know, Emily, dogs do not come with instruction manuals. Every dog is different. I've only ever had in my life, apart from the git, and this one. I've only ever had rescue dogs. Can you not point at Michael when you say the gate? Sorry, Michael. It's so rude.

You're rather noisy down there. Yeah, well that's why I think we should go that way. The rebuttal. The rebuttal. So they don't come with instruction manuals. I've only ever had rescue dogs. The thing about rescue dogs is that generally the ones I've had have been about two when they've come into my orbit and they're so grateful that they just sort of behave.

My previous dog, Charlie, I never ever had to put him on a lead. He would literally be by my heel the whole time. So I could walk him at night and he was there. This one, of course, is an entitled puppy that I had. I don't get her. I have to work really hard to get any attention from her because she's not grateful. She's like, I'm here.

You know, you chose me, I'm here. So she's not a lap dog. she may look like a lap dog. She's not a lap dog she's very much her own woman and you have to earn her affection so hence me being a dog mother because I have to earn her affection I understand the previous dogs

you know I could literally ignore them and they would still be there going oh mommy mommy mommy this one yeah not a hope so let's go back again just to the earlier years you Michael you were

As you say, you went to Ampleforth and quite a traditional school. Yeah. And I read your book ages ago, actually. I was an early discoverer. Michael, this is a woman who's bought your book and read it. This is the book, of course, that Jack said when we did our stage show recently, he said, Daddy, how many autobiographies have you written? I said, what do you mean?

He said, well, you've written, I mean, who do you think's buying them? I mean, nobody knows who you are. And I said, I don't know why you're just deliberately insulting me. And he said, but, I mean, you've written more autobiographies than who was it? He said. Katie Price. Katie Price. And I said,

Good morning. Jack, I don't know where this line of questioning is going. You said, well, how many have you written? And I said, well, was that one, two, three, four, four or five. Well, it's the value? Why do you? And who buys these books? I mean, who would want to keep reading books about your life?

Because you've never done anything. And I said, Jack, thank you very much for, you know, flattering me so ridiculously that it's embarrassing, in fact that you're flattering me so much. How many books have been written? Well, you've written two with Jack. We've written one, all of us together with Jack. Well, there was Michael, so let's get those shark-infested. Waters was the first one I read.

And then... Backing into the spotlight, which Jack renamed Crowbarring your way into the spotlight. Very mean. Then there was him and me that they wrote together. And then we've just done the How to Survive Family Holidays, which is right in paperback. But there's a lot of handy tips in there. Oh, it's great.

That has to survive going away on holiday with your family, which as you know is a trial. In shark-infested waters, you give a very vivid description of your childhood. And there's a great thing, your mum, Nora, talks about things being upmarket. She was quite aspirational in some ways, isn't she? Very. I mean, she came from a sort of middle class, probably lower middle class, Scottish, family. But I mean, they were respectable. They had a nice house. My father, my grandfather was in the rag trade, but he was sort of managed, managed various shops. I mean, they weren't smart

or what my mother used to call all the car. She loved the word al-a-carp. And she thought the neighbours were slightly too al-a-carp for her. There's a bench for us. I'll sit this end in this green... You two sit there and I'm going to go here. Yeah, they always were on a lookout for an al-a-cart. But the problem is if my mother found an al-a-cart, she said, I mean, there are some people next door who are very unacart.

An al-a-cart was sort of... Was posh, yes. But then she always got all sort of shy and awkward and embarrassed about them. So we never actually got to know them because... They were two alicards. They were two alicards. They couldn't come in the house. She said they're not going to want to come here.

My father was the opposite. My father said, why don't we ask those people next door in for a drink? You never had that attitude, I don't think, did you? You know, that sense of I belong at the table is all right for me to. You didn't have a problem with that, did you? No. I think also that the industry that we're in the entertainment industry, despite an article I read this morning,

saying that it's been hijacked by very posh people. I think it's a great level of our industry. It's very accepting of anybody. When Jack started, the first thing he did at the comedy store, we went along to see him. And he was very funny. Very young. Very young.

And you can only do, is it, five minutes? You know, they open five minutes slot between the big names. And if you go over five minutes, you never get booked there again. And so you have to be very careful as you do five minutes. A little light that flashes, counting down and then you're off. So Jack, they did this five minutes set. Well, he was very funny, but he did something and I thought, no, this isn't right at all.

And I said to him after this, Jack, what's with the voice? And he said, what do you mean, doing? I said, what is that voice you're doing? So he said, well, I just think I sound so posh. And I said, well, you don't sound posh. You've got a nice voice. But you don't, you're not going to want to get saddled with that

because he'd come on and said, Oh, ladies gentlemen, I'm Jack Wajall. And I thought, oh no, fuck off, you can't do that. Well, you're going to spend the rest of your life walking around saying, Hello, I'm Jack Wajall, and he's going to do the comedy shows and say, I mean, loads you're doing with his fake voice. Well, no, Danny, maybe you're right. no, don't do it. And it's not like you're posh. You're not coming on with a monocle saying,

oh good evening, everybody. You're just talking your normal voice and don't get saddled by that. And he never did it again, did he? And he said it took me a wee while to find my voice and that's what he meant. Because when he was up at the Edinburgh Festival the first year, again, it was also dropping his h's. But isn't that interesting because I think that shows that I love stories where someone slightly, learned from maybe things that they think might have held their parents back. So I think Michael had a mother who felt that she wasn't good enough or ala carte enough. So what you said to Jack is always be yourself, it doesn't matter who you are, just be authentic.

Yeah. I think that's really nice. Yeah. And he also had a huge amount of charm, which I'd like to say that he got from me, but he didn't. He got it from his mother. 100%. Isn't that nice? Did you hear what Michael just gave you a lovely compliment?

A hundred percent charm. So obviously there's an age gap, but the great thing is it ceases to matter. Well, it was a perfect timing too because Hillary was looking for an agent and I was looking for a wife. I think it turned out better for you than me, to be honest. Well, I mean, I didn't get much work. All you did was make me pregnant once we got married. So let's go back because Michael had left Ampleforth and then you did a series of jobs. Yeah, Catholic newspaper.

Advertising. Yeah, I was an advertising in a copywriter in the advertising agency. I was a PR man for a charity organisation. I was a solicitor's article clerk. I was a bar student of the Middle Temple. I changed my job every year virtually, always thinking that the next job was going to last forever. And between those jobs, I used to teach.

In those days, you could get a teaching job in a prep school very easily. You didn't need any qualifications. So I taught at three different prep schools. So I had, I don't know how to do. how many eight jobs maybe during my 20s without having a clue what I wanted to do. I mean I didn't have a sort of, you know, I want to be a doctor or I want to be a lawyer. I was quite keen on the idea of a lawyer, particularly my mother was very keen on the idea of me becoming a barrister.

That's very eloquart. And when I started the first day of training to be a barrister, which in involved several years of study and this was literally the first day. She bought me a wig and gown. She literally gave me this wig which she put on and this gown and she said, oh, darling, you look so good in that. I mean, absolutely perfect. And I said, yeah, I think we may be just slightly running away with ourselves

because it's seven years, I think it was, to become a barrister. And I thought, maybe we should, you know, put the gear to one side until I actually pass an exam. Well, of course, I didn't last. But then she was picking up on the fact, because if you obviously were funny from a young age and you were witty and dry and all those things. So she'd got that bit right, the performing element. He was very good at arguing as well. anyway I didn't get anywhere near

becoming a barrister so that never happened and then I met this really nice man well the one of two minor details like passing exams actually reading some legal books I met this really nice man

called Robin Fox who was an agent and he was the father of Edward Fox and James Bob and Robert Fox and everybody. And he was very charming and very successful. And he owned an agency with his partner, Laurie Evans, called London International.

And it was the Crem de la Crem. They had every actor you've ever heard of at the high end. Knights and Danes. But extraordinary people as well that you can't even believe had British representation in a way, like huge stars. Yul Bryna. Dorothy Lamour and people thought. It was brilliant.

And all I did was sort of help them and look after when there were slightly dodgy Americans coming to London, like Dorothy Lamour or Yul Bryner. They said, Michael, can you deal with them? And of course, they didn't want to deal with me. I mean, Yul Brinner definitely didn't want to talk to me. I was so below his pay grade. But you obviously had a really...

talent for that because you became one of I mean I'd heard you just in terms of you were the sort of name that my parents would have mentioned oh Michael Whitehall you know you would know but you're just I was just I was copying Laurie Evans really because Laurie Evans was so grand and he wanted to have somebody to be his assistant who could also play grand so I was the chosen one and I got a very good grounding and my mother who never wanted to be an agent when she started hearing about the people that were coming into the office and I was having lunch with Kenneth Moore and David Niven and famous actors.

Super Johnny Mills. Sir John Mills and some of them are very pompous I remember Laurie Evan saying to me, Michael, I just thought I ought to tell you that Johnny Mills had had had work with him when he was in the office the other day because apparently you called him Johnny and I said I only called him Johnny because everybody else in the group was calling him Johnny yes but he says he would expect you to call him Sir John. Whereas Larry was happy to be called Larry. Larry called me Larry straight away. But anyway I was very lucky to have that sort of start. So I did that for five years.

and then went off on my own with a very, very fine agent called Julian Belfridge, who worked in another agency. And we started this agency called Leading Artists. And that was a big success, and then I stuck with being an agent for the next... Well, a big success in more ways than one, because come in Mrs Whitehall. Yes. Oh, Philly. That's quite a big dog to take on. Fearless, you see.

you see. Fearless. That's a very... Could I interrupt for one second too and say where those two black labs are there? That is where Charlie's ashes is scattered. Our previous dog. So we quite often have a chat to Charlie

and say we're still here, Charlie. I keep saying to Philly, Philly, when you go, you're going with Charlie over there. Oh, that's so lovely. Because you can see our house from here and I used to walk, I used to run, actually, in the days when I could run. I used to run up here with Charlie.

Our visual reference is much. use in the show. We'll take a nice picture. We could mention that Michael Moore Pergo, our great friend who is the children's laureate. I see him as a fellow Panama hat wearer. I met him when we both taught in a very dodgy prep school together. In 1962? 1961 or 62 and he lives in, has a flat there. I mean he doesn't live there all the time. He has a place in Denver. So let's get to the introduction of Hillary because you were at a party it wasn't just any old party

no it was Mariah Aitken's party and drinks party Hilary tell me when you first met Michael you're acting at this stage so you'd gone I was actually understudying not Mariah but the other ladies in the play that she was doing and she had a drinks party

towards the end of the run so I had already secured another job I was actually going to do a play in rep at Northampton And had you gone to drama school? I hadn't. I auditioned and didn't get in for sort of two, a couple of years and thought, this is a bit of a mugs game. And then I had one more crack of it, and I did actually get into a drama school, but I had by then got a job which in those days was going to give me the magic equity card.

And you always wanted to act, did you? Always wanted to act. I never wanted to act. No, you didn't want to act. Did you not? Oh, no. Never ever wanted to act. You were a big fat show off, but you didn't.

what I went out. So tell me your eyes met. Our eyes met cross-crowded room. It didn't go very well to begin with. Why not? Because I had literally just met someone 10 minutes previously, an American, who'd asked me the standard questions that you ask at drinks parties. So when I then got into Michael's orbit, Michael, who I might have, was wearing a white suit.

Michael then said, oh, hello, who are you? And this guy said, oh, I'm Stephen, this is Hillary. oh right what do you do and Steve said oh I'm this and Hillary is an actress and where do you live oh well I live and Hillary lives he kept answering all these questions I kept thinking why is this man speaking for me I can speak for myself so he assumed that we were married or you know together whereas in fact you'd met him ten minutes previous ten minutes previously I can shake him off and did you see Hillary and think I like the look of her yeah I thought this is a possibility

So I then rang you. No, no, I rang you. I said, I'm looking for an agent. Well, that wasn't at the time. Yeah, it was. So I then rang you the following day and came in to see you. Because I was off to Northampton. God, there was no sort of slow build out.

I had subsequently, in the night, overnight, I'd said to Mariah, tell me about your agent. And he was at the very tail end of. this previous incumbent. And so I went to see him the following day because I was literally going to Northampton that week to start rehearsals for this play and I asked him advice about agents. Most of the ones that had responded

to me about... Did you go into the office then? You came to my office, I was absolutely charming to her. Although you opened the door because you're sitting, are you hot? And I said, yes, I am and you open the door. And standing in the doorway was Judy Dench. But she looked at me, looked at Michael and went,

is he behaving? And I thought, oh my God, she's doing jokes. She's not doing jokes. So I said, yes, he is behaving like the true gentleman that he is. Anyway, they then had a lot. You went over and kissed her and they had a bit of a chat. And I was thinking, okay, I'm literally punching above my weight here. I'm in a room with the top agent and Judy Dench.

This is ridiculous. I got Amanda Fitzhousand Howard, it was my secretary-assist. I got her to ring, Hillary, because I didn't want to read Hillary direct. This is a social matter. because it would make me sound a bit sort of dodgy. But I did not respond. But she did not respond. By then, gone on holiday after I'd done the player,

I did three weeks in the plan, then I went on holiday. It was in the days way before mobile. So there was just this message on an answering machine, which I got to when I got back. And Amanda said to me, I've run her twice now, but she hasn't run back.

And I said, well, she honestly. So that was the end of Hillary in my book. And then a few days, a week later? Or this was all pre-exed? three mobile phones. So I got that. She rang Amanda. And Amanda came into my office and said,

I've had Hillary on the phone. I mean, she's really sweet, isn't she? And I said, Hillary, who's Hillary? You know, that girl that, I said, oh, I don't want to get involved. So what else, it's her Amanda? No, no, but just to say, you know, she was really sweet.

and she's been abroad apparently she's been in America yeah you've chopped out a bit because I rang in the morning you'd said all that and no no phone call came back so then eventually I rang again in the afternoon and Amanda said

no no he's on the other line so I said could you just tell him that I've been away and I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you but I've been away so she then explained that to you and she was back on the phone to me within five minutes saying would you like to go for dinner

with two of his clients. He was too scared to take me on his own. No, I wasn't scared. I just thought it would be rather inappropriate to take you out for dinner. So we went out with Martin Jarvis and his wife, Roslind Ayz, to the Poulot in Pimlico. And that was the beginning of it.

Quite the couple, though. Quite the couple. Quite a lot of showbiz at our wedding. And at the wedding as well, Michael was having clients coming up to you. excuse me what's happening with that job yes yeah James Fox came up to me when we were just about to go into the church yeah I think and he said could I have a quick word Michael and I said quick word yes I mean is there any news on that job

because you said you'd come back to me and I said no I haven't I haven't got the latest on that could you ring her and find out I said well now he said no no not now obviously but maybe on Monday and Nigel Havers who was best man he got lost and was absolutely useless and we had to wait to go up the aisle because Nigel hadn't arrived obviously you then had wonderful who's oldest Jack is the oldest then Molly then Barnaby yeah yeah do do Barney or Barney Barney I mean I called him Barnaby and I said he's never going to be Barney because Barney is a dog's name everybody

calls him Barney So I've given up on that now. Well, he calls himself Barnaby. He does. I still call him Barnaby when I'm cross with him. Barnaby! What is this towel rolled up, wet towel rolled up in the corner of your bedroom?

Oh, look. What do you think is this dog, Michael? I like this. It's like a cockapoo. Hello. Hi. It's a very... I don't often see piccanises these days.

He's actually a Shih Tzu. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I do have a friend actually with two jenisies. black piccanises, which are the most divine things I've ever seen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is yours a cockapoo?

A sprocker. Springer as well, nice. A sprokkapoo, that's three different types of dogs. Is that a sproker poo? That's a sproquip. Oh, I like the sproquip. Yeah. Yeah, they're quite active.

What's the name? Ruby. Lovely to meet you, Ruby. Well, you enjoyed that, Hillary and I. We did. I don't know if Michael, did you see the glazed look on his face? Like when we were talking about the sproquipo. Yes.

And your house, just from what Jack's told me, and just from the impression I get from both of you, it was sort of very much a noisy, lively household, full of performers, obviously, and sort of Bonne Vivers. So quite a fun place to grow up for them, I would imagine. Rather like your own household. I think that, hello, people always say, you know, well, Jack White was very lucky because he had a head start because his parents were in the business. Well, we were actually in a completely different end of the business.

So actually, we were of no help to him at all. In fact, he had a moment when he went for an interview for a job, an acting job, went off to see the casting director and went into the room and the casting director said, before we start, can I just say, are you related to Michael Whitehall? And he said, yes, he's my father. and he said, well, then I don't think there's any point in continuing because your father was an absolute shit and I'm not giving you a job. And so that was that.

So, sort of that helps. That's the only time, yeah, the name drop ever came out. Yeah. Oh, cool. So. And then that other woman, that Irish woman. Yeah. She said, oh, Michael, I was always, well, I met her quite recently.

I was always so terrified of ringing you. He said, who's this? He was strapped for John's his agent and said Michael White. Oh, God, no. Were you quite scary as an agent? Yeah, was he? He was quite tough. Why are you scary?

Well, you took the view, didn't you, that your job was to protect your clients? Yeah, I like that. I didn't think it was my job to have lots of friends who were casting directors. I thought casting directors were people that you, you know, would ring you and try and get your clients. to do jobs and everything, but you didn't really want to be having lunch with them all the time and being all matey with them. I just thought that it was best to have a bit of distance.

But I don't think I was actually rude to them. Just not very friendly. No, I don't think he was rude to them, but he definitely felt that his job was to protect his plants and get the best possible deal, but also make sure they were looked after properly. I love that. When they went on a set,

they weren't, you know, given a bicycle and a tent to... If you were going out for lunch with these people all the time and becoming their mates, it wasn't necessarily a very good thing when you wanted to get the best possible deal for them. The point I was going to make about Jack is that although we were a different end of the business and we weren't much help in that respect

because we didn't know anybody in the comedy world, the one thing I do think you get by living in a house where the parents are in the industry is that by osmosis you pick up, you know, if you're surrounded by actors, you learn about timing and being a raconteur and how to deliver a line just by being in their company. And I think that's what Jack picked up, was that he picked up that Richard Griffiths could tell a 25-minute joke

and you didn't know where it was going to go and he would meander all around it because he was a storyteller. And he'd do it in a very sort of energetic way. So that's really interesting. I mean, you always say, Hillary about Jack didn't he? He would sit at the table aged eight or nine or whatever. And I'd be droning on with some ludicrously long anecdote about some actor rather. And Jack was thinking all these people are sitting here quiet and then they're laughing all the time and daddy says things.

Maybe I should do something like that. I think he should have felt that Michael is a very funny man. He's a great raconteur as you know. And I think he thought, oh, I could do a bit of that. Yeah, I should do that. Because I do think that Jack's comedy, he's not a gag smith. He's not a Tim Vine or a Jimmy Carrey. He's not a gag merchant.

He's a storyteller. They happen to be very funny, but they happen to have a narrative as well. But the storyteller thing is very, is very, very funny. very apt with Jack. He does tell a very good story, isn't he? Most of which have a grain of truth in them. You know, he might exaggerate it or, you know, put things together or whatever, but they are, but generally speaking, there will be truth within them. What were your feelings when he first said to you, you know, when he was thinking, and obviously Molly's in the business in a different way, were you thinking, I don't know if I want him to perform? Well, you said, didn't you, to all of our children? children. And they did do bits of stuff in programmes that Michael did when they were children.

They all had a crack at, you know, doing bits of performing. Barney loathed it from day one and said, I don't really want to do, sorry, don't really want to do this. Molly, again, thought, you know, I'm probably going to be out of work more than I'm in work. It was only Jack that sort of ran with it. But you always said to all of our children, oh, don't, whatever you do, don't be an actor. Don't be an actor. Did you? Why? Yeah, because it's a dead end job. The amount of people, I mean, I looked after, I had some very good actors, young actors,

when I was in my early days, not very early days, but early-ish days. I mean, I had Colin Firth. I got him from drama school. I got Daniel Day Lewis from... Drama school? Drama school from the Bristol Old Vic. But more importantly, I also got lots and lots of young actors who nobody has ever heard of,

and you have never heard of, and they are probably not even doing it anymore. Because, you know, there's one Colin Firf. Yeah. And there's a hundred of us. And that's why I said, don't do it, Jack. Don't be an actor. And he took my advice up to a point. Up to a point, although he did want to be a comedian.

Yeah. But of course it worked out perfectly because he became a very successful comedian and is now acting. So now you two have obviously, suddenly your career is taken off in a community. Your career's taken off in a completely different direction. I know. At this time in your life, which I think is rather lovely. Because I suppose you know who you are.

You've had your family. You know who your friends are. It's a very nice surprise because I never wanted it and I never thought it would happen anywhere. And when I used to go and see, I remember one occasion when I went to see Judy Dench and Michael Williams, in a play. And as I left the theatre, I thought,

God, thank God, I don't have to do what they've got to do because those poor fuckers have now got to do that same thing every night for six months, which of course they would love doing. It wasn't like they didn't enjoy doing it for six months every night, but I would have hated doing it. It was never in my game plan to be a,

performer. And then what changed? Because you obviously started... I must have seen you in Jack at the Edinburgh Festival was where it started. Oh yeah, that's where it started, yeah. Jack wanted to do something with me. I mean, we did that show back show.

10 years on? No, we're 12 years on. I've just about forgiven him for picking the wrong parent. I mean, it's rankled for 12 years but I've worked through it. I mean, it was just... And now I'm now in the scene and it's like, okay, thanks, Jack. Yeah, but you were less in the scene after Winston.

Philly! Are you admiring your new stand, sir? Yeah, you could say that. Pullham fan. Very nice stand it is. Obviously, I want to talk about the fact that you've got this podcast starting, which is called the Whittering Whitehall. Does what it says on the tin.

We whitter. And is it you two giving advice to people? So people email in with their queries, questions or maybe just an anecdote or whatever and we then whitter. And it will not surprise you to learn, Emily, that we very rarely agree on our advice. Do we, Michael? No, we do not. Your advice and then I correct it. Let's see, for example, let's test out the whittering white halls.

Okay. I have been invited to go to someone's house. Yeah. I take my dog everywhere. Yes. Etiquette-wise, how does this work? Should I ring up and just be honest and say, is it okay if I bring Raymond and risk refusal?

Or should I just bring him and assume it's okay? That question first to Michael Whitehall. I would say unquestionably neither. Oh. You've been invited to somebody's house to go. They don't want your dog. Why would they want your dog? You can cope without your dog, presumably, is this just for a dinner?

Yeah, but can the dog cope without Emily? That's the point. Well, you must have an arrangement where your dog can be looked after by somebody else. But to spring a dog on somebody, I'll tell you a story about a dog. I went to a house once and there was a dog under the table that saved my skin. the woman was a vegetarian. Yeah. And she'd done this thing called a something pie.

It was a hot crust. Hot crust. Nut, bean pie. Very Michael. And she kept coming round the table and saying, are you enjoying it? Are you enjoying it? I hate people who come out. I hate waiters who say, are you enjoying your meal?

Say, no, fuck off. If I'm not enjoying it, I want to. come and complain but you don't have to keep telling me or asking me if I'm enjoying it okay I've come here I've paid the bill I'll enjoy it or I won't anyway so this woman comes over and say are you enjoying the nut roast and I said yeah yeah oh yes very much very nice thank you very much yes yes and I thought what am I going to do with it because I got my pockets I was wearing in one of these suits My pockets were full.

I think you always weren't in one of those things. Exactly. I thought I can't eat it. It's absolutely disgusting. Did you put it in your pocket? Yes, he did. So I felt something on my leg and I thought the lady next door was doing a bit flotatious with me. She was a bit elderly and I thought, I think it would be.

She had a sort of shake. It was their dog. It was the woman's dog. woman's dog and I thought thank God I can give it to the dog so I gave these bits of this pie to the dog and the dog looked like it was eating it but no it wasn't it was just sort of chewed it and then chew it and then spat it out on the floor by your feet by my foot so I had this huge pile of sort of regurgitated nut rose pie piled in front of me under the table. So by then we were at the end of the meal,

if you could call it a meal, and I had to get all this stuff into my pocket because I thought I can't leave it all on the floor. So I stuffed my pockets full of this very gurgitated stuff and they were really full, these two pockets really full. And then as I was at the by the front door, saying goodbye, this man came up to me and said, Hello, Michael, oh boy, how are you? And he went like that, and I, like, boom, boom, and squashed all this. Presumably he was saying goodbye rather than hello.

He was saying goodbye, Michael. Yes, and he squashed the pie. Squash all the pie in my jacket. Yeah, it's the end of that suit. I'm going back to your question now. Yeah, go on then. My advice would be, I think you should ring in advance, but I would be forceful in my request and say just to let you know I hope this isn't an

inconvenience but the dog can't be left on her own on his own so I will be coming with the dog lovely answer Hillary thank you for your contribution Michael pleasure what qualities does Jack get from you Michael and what does he get from you Hillary definitely his funny bones from Michael in terms of his personality he definitely think has my mode of background. It's very charming to people. Yes.

And most, I mean, I won't say most comedians, but quite a lot of successful comedians and comedy actors who can be quite tricky. Jack is not tricky. I mean, he's only ever tricky if he's unhappy about some dialogue or something that he's written. And he's only tricky about it because he either doesn't think it's good enough or

It doesn't need messing around with or sort of technical sort of reasons. So he gets charm from Hillary and no charm from me. Funny bones. I would say that the one thing, there is a, I would say that like Michael, both Michael and Jack like things to be done properly in all ways. It has to be done properly, particularly work. You know, they want it to be the best that it can possibly be. So the only time you will ever see Jack being a bit twitchy

is if he thinks it's not the funniest it can be or the best it can be. Yes. And he will chip away and get it done again and again. Do you sometimes get that thing when someone meets Michael for the first time? I understand Michael and I got him because I grew up with a lot of Michael's. Yeah. Are there people that don't get Michael's humor and get scared of him? Literally thousands.

And also, yes, people that have known you for years. So friends, is that your dog being admired by a... Come on, Raymond. I know he's lying down now. He does this. Come on, Raymond. Come on. Oh, do I have to, mummy?

Oh, look, Michael, look. Michael, look. He just lies down. It's a bit like you. Go on. Mentally, you lie down in the middle of the podcast. Do people sometimes misinterpret Michael's drive wit for rudeness? I don't misinterpret it, but I have people who will call me and say,

can I just ask, was Michael joking the other night when he said, blah, blah, blah. And I go, yep, it was a joke. Just be reassured, it was a joke. And they've known him for years, but they still sometimes just can't quite read him. She certainly wiggles her ass. It's a he, babe. No, he was talking about me, Hillary. Oh, sorry, yes, she does.

He certainly wiggles his ass when he's walking. The other thing that Michael hates because of his age, I think, is that he literally hates the modern youth situation where everything is done at the last minute and changes at the last minute. He can't bear it. So we'll arrange to do something with one or other of our children with 24 hours notice if we're lucky,

eight hours notice if we're not. And then at the last minute you'll go to say, oh, actually, I can't make it, can we do it tomorrow? Or I can't go there, can we meet here? And he hates that. Do you not like that, Michael? No. You make an arrangement.

A gentleman's word is his bomb? Yeah. Absolutely. How do you find, do you like WhatsApp groups, Michael? No. You never know where they are on the phone, do you? You always say, where is that family missives? No.

No. No. I don't like any of that. Do you not? Well, the only thing you like is receiving pictures of Peggy. I like people who are generous. I have to say that all our children are very generous. Are?

Generous with themselves? With themselves and their gifting, etc. They'll always arrive with something. You know, they won't come empty-handed. They're not quite as tidy as I would like them to be. But you're very fastidious, immaculate man. Well, again, we're into Whittering Whitehall territory here because we have two takes on this.

if I have a mess, I want to sort it out and put it away properly. If Michael sees a mess, he just gets the whole lot, scoops it into a basket and puts it in a cupboard. Well, I tell you, it's out of sight. And I can't bear that because I then think it's all sitting in there in a mess. I've got to get it all out again and sort it out. But his mum Nora used to do that. I get that from Nora.

When the vicar came for tea, Nora would sweep. Everything would disappear. My father would say, darling, why is it? Does the coffee table? Did your parents get to meet Hillary then? No. I met Nora. Oh, you met Nora when she was by then a bit girl, wasn't?

She had quite serious dementia, so she never quite remembered who I was. Yeah. And she met Jack, actually. Oh, that's nice. We used to have a very circular conversation with her. Bless her, because by then she was 86. When she met Jack, she'd always say, oh, she's so sweet, Michael. What she called?

She's called Jack. Oh, after Jack? Oh. Can I just interrupt the minute? Go on. Because it used to go like this. You'd say, we've brought Jack to see you. Jack's here, because his father was called Jack.

Jack's here? No, no, we brought the baby to see you. So she'd then look at the baby. Oh, she's so sweet. What's she called? No, it's a boy. What's he called? Jack.

Jack's here? Then we'd go round in circles. And did you, did Michael cry when the kids were born? I think I cried when Jack was born, yes. And the other two? And Molly. Probably not Barney, no. You're so mean.

Poor Barney. No, no. That would make me cry. Not a lot makes me cry. We didn't, weirdly, everyone said, did we cry at Molly's wedding? And I said, no, because Molly's wedding was so joyous. I couldn't cry. I had a huge smile on my face all day.

But it's interesting with you two that your kids have all gone off to do their own different things. How did you teach them a work ethic? I said, you know, certainly at school, I said to them at school, if you work hard, it's just going to give you more choices in life. It's as simple as that.

If you want to have options, work hard. I was very lucky to, being the older father. I mean for instance when they were all at Mulbra I was by far the oldest parent of the parent group yeah so there were lots of fathers who I got on very well with but they were all miles younger to me and in fact I could almost have been their father and that was really nice for me because I was mixing instead of being mixing with a lot of old man. I was mixing

with a lot of younger men who, I don't mean they were very young but they were in their what sort of age. They were in their 30s? No, well 40s. Whereas I was in my 60s. 50s and 60s. I think our children

definitely kept Michael relevant in terms of his outlook on things. And I also wasn't competitive. Whereas a lot of boys at a boarding school, their fathers are very competitive with them. You know, if it's cricket or tennis or anything, they are competing with their sons because they want to be better than their sons. There was none of that with me.

In fact, it was completely the opposite. And they were much more looking after me rather than trying to compete with me. with me. What a lovely life you two have. We do have a lovely. Look at this beautiful part of London. Overlooking the river. People always say you have to find someone, you know, who kind of completes you. So you two are just perfect, aren't you? Don't you think, Michael? You're perfectly matched? Um, oh God, yes. Leave that one with me. No, we are. Of course we are. Emily Dean, I can't believe that you've got him to say this in a public space. No. You are perfect, but...

Perfect. He wouldn't have said that the other day. Why? Because I do this funny voice over for an animation series called Moli, about a Mole. And I play a character called Miss Petunia, who's a sort of mad, crazed old bat with bright pink hair and a hat. And I made the hat. And I had bright pink hair. I sprayed my hair bright pink to go to this event for Moli.

And he said, are you, sorry, are you seriously expecting me to go out in public with you looking like that? And I said, yeah, I am actually. And we arrived at this event and everybody was in love with my hat and my hair and came over. And he kept saying, I'm so sorry about my wife. She's gone mad. That's how Michael shows love. I think if he ignores you, it means he's not interested. Right, we've reached the Whitehall's home now, which I won't share with anyone because it's not a dog mapper's guide.

Can I just say goodbye to the White Halls? You can see goodbye. I've had the loveliest walk. I really want everyone to listen to the Wittering White Hulls because these two are so entertaining. And thank you so much for walking with me. I love meeting Philly. Philly's so nice. Michael, did you enjoy meeting Raymond?

I did. I mean, you don't even have to ask me this question, do you? Because I literally love Raymond. I want Raymond. Rabin's quite a, even for a non-dog lover, is quite appealing. Why? Well, she just looks like, she looks, he looks like a, sort of cushion or a, called you a girl.

It's a sort of dog you could tuck into a sofa and it would just be there being... I'm going to need a picture of me with Raymond. with Raymond. Is that all right? Raymond? Get your tongue out. Oh, these are good. Say goodbye. Oh, goodbye, Raymond.

Goodbye, Emily. It's been an absolute pleasure meeting you both, I have to say. Huge. Can we meet not on a podcast? Do you know what? I think we've really won Michael around with Raymond, don't you think, Hillary?

I think Raymond may have actually got right under the radar. If I had to commit to a certain sort of dog. I'd be more likely to go that way. Could you cope with this? Probably not. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that

and do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.