Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Naga Munchetty (Part One)

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

Join Emily and Raymond on a rainy day in London’s Regent’s Park - with the legendary BBC Breakfast and BBC 5 Live broadcaster Naga Munchetty. Naga revealed to us that, although she is the proud owner of two cats, she is in fact a dog person… although, Raymond’s not quite her size… We found out all about Naga’s childhood in South London as the daughter of two nurses. She tells us how it felt to straddle two cultures as a child, why she won’t apologise for her intelligence and the importance of BBC Breakfast. In Naga’s new book It’s Probably Nothing she draws on her own experience of being dismissed, undiagnosed and misdiagnosed to explores the devastating outcome of decades of ingrained medical misogyny. It’s Probably Nothing: Critical Conversations on the Women's Health Crisis and What We Can Do About It is out now. You can buy your copy here!Follow @tvnaga on Instagram Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Raymond's very cute, but he looks like a mini-walk. And I just, I don't think Raymond would go running with me. And I like big dogs. I like big dogs and I cannot lie. I'd buy that song. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I went for a stroll with BBC breakfast host Radio 5 Live presenter and author Nagamanchetti in London's Regents Park. Now, it was a bit of a rainy day when we met up and my boy doesn't really do, Rayne.

But fortunately, there's a beautiful bandstand in Regent's Park overlooking the boating lake, so he's settled in there to chat, mainly to be honest, so Ray could protect his hairdo. Naga is obviously a very familiar face to all of us who watch her on BBC breakfast. Ray and I love waking up to her in the mornings, but I was also keen to find out all about her childhood growing up in South London and her route into reporting and presenting. And let's not forget her secret talent as a jazz trumpeter. Nagar is super articulate and smart and a fascinating person to chat to, but she's also very funny

and a really good laugh. I think what impressed me most, though, was how unapologetic she was about her own achievements. She doesn't do that false modesty thing women are often encouraged to do of, oh, maybe I was just lucky. And there's just something very inspiring about someone straightforwardly owning their own accomplishments. I was also really keen to chat to Nagra about the book she recently published, it's probably nothing, which tackles the problems women face getting properly diagnosed and treated in a healthcare system historically biased against them, with serious symptoms so often dismissed as just part of being a woman. She also writes very candidly in it about her own very personal experience of this and the impact it had on her life.

It's a very compelling and powerful read and a really important book, so I urge you to grab a copy of it now. Ray and I absolutely loved a our morning with Nagar. In fact, he started to pine a bit for her whenever he sees her on TV, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist she becomes his new best friend, whether she likes it or not. I really hope you enjoy our chat. I'll hand over now to the brilliant woman herself. Here's Nagar and Rui. I'd like to just say that I looked for dog biscuits and I didn't think they were good enough in the supermarket I went to and my vet wasn't open this morning when I went to when I went to work, which I could walk past. So I apologise for not having to be.

having any treats. Lager, this is an absolute first. You're already the best guest we've ever had on. The fact that you were going to buy dog biscuits. I've researched them. I researched them. So I was told by Charlie State, who's my co-presenter who has a dog, because I was saying, what dog biscuits? Because usually whenever we're out, he'll put a dog biscuit out of his pocket, right? And I'm like, what have we got dog biscuits? He goes, I've just walking the dog. So I said to him, what are good dog biscuits? And should I go to the vet to get them? Because it's not my dog. It's like feeding other people's children, isn't it? And so he said get really stinky ones.

His dog likes really stinky ones, which I thought was a bit weird. Because I think, like, with cats, I have cats. And some cats like wet food and stinky wet food. And some cats, not people, some cats, not people. Some cats like cat biscuits. So I did, so I did really. Oh, we're just being interrupted. Oh, that's all right.

That's the man at the cafe locking the gate. Bye-bye. We're being banished. So I did really think about it, but I do apologise for not having any dog biscuits because I think that's rude. It's like going to someone's house and not bringing, I don't know, flowers. I'd never bring flowers, but, you know, bringing food

or bottle of wine, so I apologise. That is so incredibly love you. And I'm so excited that you've had a conversation with Charlie because I love you too. I love the idea that you had a conversation with him about what dog biscuits do, what dog does Charlie have, by the way?

He's got kind of like, she's a, she's black. I mean, that doesn't it? This isn't a good start, Hagger. She's cross between a collie and something else. I've never met her, but he's described her. But anyway, he's the only person I had to hand who had a dog. Oh, Nagra, I feel terrible.

It's raining on our lovely dog walk. I'm getting the impression. You already grabbed my coffee. Well, you're holding the dog. Who looks like a little leewalk. I think if you're a cat person, I think this is really going to work. I'm a dog person. Yeah, I'm a dog person.

I used to have a dog with my ex-partner, and then we split up. But I'm definitely a dog person, but I can't have a dog because of my lifestyle. Yeah, it's not practical, is it? Because you're away and your hours and all that kind of stuff. And what was the dog you had? A Rockweiler.

Which I love. I love Rockwilers. I mean, there's no such thing as a bad dog. It's bad owner, isn't it? His name was Ice. He was beautiful. Gentle, soft, soppy, territorial, but lovely.

I loved him dearly. Just such an affectionate lovely dog. And that's quite a big... I like big dogs. Do you? Yeah. None taken, Raymond. Well, and... Raymond's very cute, but he looks like a mini-walk.

And I just... I don't think Raymond would go running with me and I like big dogs. I like big dogs and I cannot lie. I'd buy that song. In fact, I think we should... should release that song. Well, I'm so thrilled to meet you, partly because I've just read your brilliant book.

I've heard you say an interview, it's not designed to be read in one sitting, but you said it's more of a handbook and a guidebook and all that. I did read it from cover to cover in one city. That's because it was your homework. Do you know what? It started off as homework. Yes. I came for the homework.

I stayed for the content. Excellent. And I'm going to talk to you about it at length. And, you know, we've got boxes to tick first, but I just want to get this out the way. Okay. And so how much I loved it, actually, and how... How I'm delighted? It really touched me very personally, which I'll explain to you why,

because my sister died of cancer and she got diagnosed, woefully late. So I was kind of reading it thinking, well, she'd be so pleased this book was written, and I'm sure you've had thousands of people who have said similar to you, you know? I have. I've had people whose sisters have been diagnosed late and going to a specialist and I know something's wrong and being dismissed or it being diagnosed too late because other symptoms were just thought of as, oh, it's just part of getting older, particularly when you're a woman of a certain age, i.e. perimenopausal or menopausal.

Oh, now, can we reach the bandstand and unfortunately there aren't any seats here? We could have performed I like big dogs and I cannot lie. I mean, we've got an audience of about 12 geese. That's fine. We can sit on the floor, though, can't we? Do you know, I'm really warming to you already? You're very ungranned, aren't you? Yeah.

Well, I'm happy to sit on the floor, if you're happy to sit on the floor. The floor is great for me. And then Raymond can get down rather than being scrunched up in your arms, and you can have your cup of tea. I love this. We love, Maga. We could, like, lean against a little post, so we don't even have to sit up straight. Oh, yeah.

You have that post. That's a really. I think this is good. So let's go back to Mini Nagar. Mini Nagar. I'm quite mini as it is. Yeah. I think that's what I want to. Small is beautiful, isn't it, Raymond? Mini Eowoc.

We like Petit. We're three minis. Yeah, for minis. I want to go back to Minnie Nagar. So this is Stretem you grew up in. Yeah. Well, Peckham and then Streatham. South London. But you're born in Ballam? Is that right?

South London Hospital. Yes. Doesn't exist. anymore. Yeah, so I'm a proper south of Londoner. So do you know, sorry, I've got to say something. Do you know like they say owners or dogs look like their owners?

So, I just put Raymond on my lap, who's very cozy, actually. It's nice and, nice and toasty. And then all his hair was flying away, and I looked at your hair and I was like, oh yeah, it's true. Is this really weird? He's got, like, a beautiful, he's got very, you know, he's very nicely manicured

on the top to give him his Ewok appearance. He doesn't look in e-wock appearance. Actually, you have heard that before, haven't you? Ed Miliband said he looked like a toupee. But the thing is, the thing is, if you ever lose your hair, you could just, you could adopt Raymond's skin you. It's not dissimilar. Are you suggesting I'm some sort of Dr. Evil figure who's fashioned my dog after me? No, I think that Raymond loves you so much he would give you his hair.

Just twisted it. There you go. All he'd need is a few highlights and then we'll be fine. So I want to go back to Minnie Nagar And this is in South London, as you say And your parents Is it nursing or? Yes.

So dad came from Mauritius. Mum came from India. They went to Wales in the early 70s Where they met. And mum was here to study dentistry, Dad to study nursing. And then they got together And mum switched to nursing

And they moved to London To have me and have a life. I like that. I think a household where people work in those professions, I grew up with slightly bohemian, crazy artist types. I mean, they were actors. My dad worked for the BBC actually for a long time. And I sort of am quite jealous of people who've had children like yours.

Oh yeah, but people who are childhood like mine are jealous of people who've had childhoods like yours. Okay. Because I imagine, when you say bohemian, I imagine you were kind of like freewheeling and not as many rules. My goodness, the rules in my house. I mean, I could listen and it would fill two walls. You always kind of think the grass is greener, don't you? That's human nature to want more. I suppose so, but I think it's one of those things, isn't it, that you're right.

At the time you may not appreciate it. People love coming around to my house because they could smoke and stay up late and watch shitty TV. I say shitty TV. As long as it's a black and white French film, we could stay up as long as we want. And be pretentious. but my parents are fine with that but I kind of think having that

what's love and boundaries is what you get with your kind of background and I think there's quite a lot to be said for that structure I'm assuming you had structure but yeah yes of course but it's also when your parents are from another country

and they come to a country where their ambition is to have a good life and give their children a better life than they had and raise a family and yet try to understand the culture that is so different to theirs and want their children to not be seen as different, but also are battling their own cultural values that they feel are different to the country that they're in.

It's hard. And so you straddle. You spend a lot of your time as a child straddling, which you do anyway, because you're always trying to find your place and your space. But you spend a lot of time kind of having an inside home life and an outside home life. and never the twain shall meet often.

And do you think that is because of that sense of, I suppose, trying to assimilate, really? Yes, absolutely. My mum, when we came home, and I still have this habit now, when we came home, we would change our clothes, straight out of our uniform. They would go straight into no shoes in the house, and controversially, sensibly in my head, but anyway, straight upstairs, out of your school uniform, into your house clothes, slobys, as I now call them, because my mum didn't want our uniform smelling of food that she'd cook.

She was very much, you will not smell of curry or any food. And we lived in this three-bedroom terrace house, so, you know, two double bedrooms, a box room, downstairs, two reception rooms, a galley kitchen. And she would, whatever the weather, have that back door open, and the kitchen door would close. We always had this thing that if we went into the kitchen, you'd have to shut the door straight behind you. It was like, you'd almost catch your fingers in the door,

and if you went out, you had to really go out quickly, because she did not want that house smelling of food. And she, because there were all these tropes that if you're Asian, you'd stank of curry. You know, and that was one of the things. She was not going to have us be accused of that. How interesting, isn't it, when you look back at those things that just seem,

I guess not normal as a kid, but you just see that happening. And you don't really think too heavily about all the implications behind that. And I find it kind of, it's sort of, touching, but then heartbreaking as well. Yeah, it is. And you see the thought behind it and you understand it, but there's also that fear, isn't there?

It's embedded in fear, which is a real shame. And unfortunately, when you have that, it passes down, doesn't it? But we, you know, now look at this country. Now, you know, people are always asking, where's the best Vietnamese? I can get the best Indian I get, give me a really good Indian recipe. There's no kind of, oh no, wouldn't eat that. trying everything and exploring cuisines but then it wasn't

quite like that. Yeah. I can see that. I'm interested to know as well what you were like at school because you seem already, you seem very charismatic. Do you like that word? I love it. I've never been called charismatic before. Have you not? No. I'm taking it.

I think you've got, there's something. I don't know what it is. It's indefinable. That's what charisma is there, isn't it? Did you find it easy to eat friends, is it? kid. I always had good friends. Some of those friends I have now. So what at my 50th birthday I've got three school friends and another who I don't see as often but is a good school friend. I always had friends at school and I always had quite a tight group. But I'd always make friends, I'd always try to talk to everyone. I was no angel. But I hated seeing people bullied. And I remember there were a couple of kids in school

who were, you know, bullied for whatever reason, maybe. And we didn't understand, like, they'd be bullied because they didn't have nice shoes, even though, you know, all tattie school uniforms. And I was just like, hate it. I just hated it. So I'd always kind of be that person who would speak to everyone, although I had my own group of friends.

And I was very popular. I was also really smart. I was, you know, a boffin, as people used to say. So I had, and a musician. as well. So I had that real difficulty in balancing of being a boffin and actually being quite mischievous

and naughty and being popular. So I had I think overall I had a really good time at school. I loved school. I had a really good time because I we've all been bullied, you know, we all go through those phases of being bullied, but I didn't

I wasn't one of those who didn't see school as a safe place. Right. I was lucky. Do you know what I love? I love that you say, I like to hear a woman say, I was really smart.

Yes, I am really smart. I'm not apologising for that. I work really hard. I have a fear of being found out that I haven't done any research, therefore I do all my research. And, yeah, I am smart. I'm not, I'm academic smart.

I can read things and take things in. I wouldn't say I am the most ingenious person. I have an imagination and I'm creative to a certain extent visually and with television, but I'm not artistic. I don't think I'm, I never think I'm the smartest person, nor do I want to be, because who does, what you're going to learn. No, I am smart. I'm not, you know, I'm sick of women bashing themselves. I was asked the other day, which part of your body would you change or do you not like? And I just went, you know what, nothing.

This is the body I've got. And I work really hard to be, I work hard and I also don't work hard. But I'm really hard to be fit. And I work hard to be able to wear clothes that I like for me. And I work hard because I want to be able to get up out of a chair in 30 years' time. And there are so many people who are ready to bash me every day, every hour when I do my job. Why on earth would I bash myself? I'm done.

I'm done with being hypercritical. There's this brilliant film with Emma Thompson. Oh, I can't remember the name of it. I love her. Where she's with a younger man. Something. Is it Leo or something? I absolutely loved it.

So it's called Good Luck to you, Leo Graham. That brilliant film. And Emma Thompson stands in front of a mirror and looks at her body, her naked. kid body and accepts it and you know after having battered it for having cellulite or scars or not having a flat belly and I just think we've been given all these aspirations to be and I'm just like you know what no I don't do I think I have the perfect body you know it's pretty perfect for me it's doing its job and I'm okay and it's healthy I'm okay and so I said I'm not going to answer that question the only thing I ever the thing I said to it is

And we were talking about being minis. So I did have always hankered to be taller. But I'm not and I'm fine. I can reach the glass in the shelf or the mug that I need to get to. I'm okay. And I can use the step ladder if I need to get to anything else. Do you know what? As I've got older, I've really started to celebrate being small.

Because, funny enough, I used to find when I was younger, sometimes people would point it out constantly. Oh, you're tiny. But how tall are you? I'm 5.3. And I'm 5.3 and a half or 5.4, depending who measures me. Yeah. That's not tiny.

Well, it's kind of the average. It's the average. Yeah. But it's a funny thing how I used to take it very personally. And I, because I think I realized, but it was actually quite a good lesson to me. I thought, even if you think it's complementary, actually never comment on anyone's, any aspect of someone's physical appearance they have no control over. I have friends who are tall in my eyes.

And I remember meeting someone and saying, oh, you're. you're so tall. And they were like, well, you're so short. As if it was, you know, and I'd said it as if it was something that defined them. And I realized how maybe borderline offence if it was or upsetting that I'd pointed out that they were different in my head. And it was something to be exclaimed upon. I mean, we're learning all the time, aren't we? But, I mean, I should have drawn on, like you have, drawn on your own experiences of what it made you feel like when you were told you were school.

It's an very minor way. I know it's not, you know, the same as. other rising, but it does feel I'm suddenly being looked at and deemed abnormal. That's what it feels like. Yeah, I'm getting a really vivid picture of you, and I read that you played the trumpet. Yes. And my sister played the trumpet. And I, again, I don't know why, but I always loved that she played the trumpet.

Did you love hearing her practice? No. No, it's horrendous. It was absolutely fucking awful. We should lock her in the bathroom, honestly. That's not good for the acoustics. Now you're going to know if you've got a good tomb, if you're stuck in a bar? She used to play Handel or something.

But then she got into, there were kind of jazz things that I don't know. Yeah, I used to play jazz. Did you? But practicing your arpeggios over and over and over again. They were like these really good books with just all these exercises. I can, I remember the exercises now. And she was over and over again. To the point, I'd always have a red ring around my lips.

And your umbershaw changes had a very good ombershaw. I remember my parents showed us a film called Genevieve. or something and there was it's an old kind of film and there was someone called Kay Kendall and she gets out the trumpet suddenly in the middle of it and it was the first one thought god it's very cool yes like a woman playing the trumpet there's something very sexy very sexy I mean you know you don't you remember like I was it Robert Palmer's video with the women playing the trumpets and I was just like yeah is it your party trick no I don't play anymore so in South London we used to have the inner London

Education Authority when I grew up and And they would supply musical instruments for children whose parents couldn't afford to buy them an instrument. So I was loaned it. But I had to give it back when I went to university. So I stopped playing. And I've tried it since. I tried it in my 30s, but your Rombashore goes. And I am one of those people that if I can't do something while I don't do it.

Is that right? Especially when you've been very good at something. Right. The only thing I do stick at is the piano. I've got the piano I had when I was, my parents saved up and bought, I think they took a loan and bought it was a piano. I'm not upright piano and I have that in my house, but I'm nowhere near as good as I used to be

because you don't practice, do you? You're practising every day and going to music college, music school every Saturday. Of course you're going to practice it as part of your life. But that's interesting that that was obviously, I don't know, that suggests quite a lot of, you're quite diligent young kid as well. Yeah.

You set your mind to a task and you completed it. Very much like that now. Tasks have to be done. Why is that funny? I'm feeling for Mr. Nagar. He hears that a lot when the dishwasher's got to be loaded. No, he's a dishwasher man. Is he?

Yeah. He's the dishwasherman. No, it's not a well done. He doesn't like the way I do it. Fine. So you ended up going to university. You went to Leeds, is that right? Yeah, Leeds University.

Studied English. And you studied English? Yeah, much to my parents should grow. Really? What do you think they would have hoped you would have done? A doctor, a lawyer. Is it all number one doctor? Then a lawyer.

Then I don't know what else would have been okay. But it was fine. It was, you know, my mum did say, what, you're going to be a poet? Well, no, you can do lots of things when you do English. You can be a teacher. Not that I ever wanted to be a teacher. But, yeah, and then I fell into journalism there

because with the lead student, as it was named then, the student paper, and just found that I was curious. And I liked telling people's stories, like finding them out and telling them in a way that made other people interested in what I'd found interesting. And don't you think it's interesting when you look back, I did English, but I look back at the degree and I realise it's the whole, you know, it's all about the climb.

It was like, oh, it was never about the subject. It was about learning to think for myself. Yeah. Critical thinking was crucial, wasn't it? We had an episode where we had to do. Let's move in, Naga. Are you getting bothered by the rain? No, you sit over there.

The rain's coming in and it is easing. Is it? Oh, you're so positive, Naga. I'm a golfer. You are a golfer. Yes, so go on. You were saying about university. Yeah, I mean, it's critical thinking, isn't it?

And I didn't have that in a way that you have it at university. And I think, you know, you'll know this as an English student. Probably not. Where did you go? Oh, at Sussex. Right. Okay, so you didn't go to... Hey, Wock.

You didn't go to Oxford Lockbridge, where you'd have more kind of one-on-one teaching and challenges about how to think. I still had that at Leeds. and I hadn't really had those opportunities to do that because you're in bigger classes and you're being told what to think when you're doing your A levels and then all of a sudden you're expected to have an opinion about stuff

and challenge the norms of, you know, was Hamlet mad or was their mental illness? You know, thinking about things like that and, you know, how did he get to that point where he descended into madness? And I think we would look at Hamlet very differently to say how we studied it in the 80s, for example, or the 90s.

And do you think it's only since I've left that I've realised actually studying English, how you realise I'm so interested in history as well and how it's a form of historical study as well because you're learning about history through the best writers of each generation. Yeah, and also social attitudes. Yeah.

You know, Oscar Wilde, for example. I mean, just you had to understand the context of what's that is that a growl that's a reverse sneeze oh I was gonna say I was like that's pathetic Raymond that's a reverse sneeze and when you first hear it really frightens you well it looks like he oh darling it's all right oh no should I be sympathetic it's all right is the weather getting to him no he's all right do you know what he's just getting old you're an old man how old is he he's nine now oh he looks so sprightly because he's small yeah there you go small things

It posed well for us and Agnes. So you leave university and at that point, had you had that sort of sitting in your bedroom fantasising about you, giving your acceptance speech for the award for doing what? No. Did you not ever do that, like accepting the Oscar or... If you could have fast forward and thought, right, you know, when you were daydream. I'll be entirely honest.

I was very financially motivated. Didn't particularly want to be rich or have material things. But I wanted financial security. Where do you think that came from? I came from watching my parents, you know, having to think about money a lot. And I just never wanted to be in that situation. So, you know, I wanted my own house, but I wanted to be able to afford good food and clothes

and not worry about buying clothes and things like that. And I'm, you know, it's fine. I had a good upbringing and my, you know, I didn't go without. We didn't have holidays or anything. I didn't go without. We didn't go without. But you wanted to have choices. Yes.

So it wasn't so much, you know, I never wanted to be famous or anything like that. Does that never really a desire? No. Oh, it's horrible being famous, I imagine. I mean, I've got a high profile. But the scrutiny. I mean the scrutiny I get anyway my voice or what I'm wearing

or my hair looks like, my makeup and if I phrased something a certain way and that's a journalist doing their job all these film stars who are constantly criticised for their weight and their appearance and now what work have they had done should they have had the work done should they go and get the work done

and it's just leave them alone who wants that Well, I also, once you get over kind of 45, it's getting earlier now, maybe 40 and you're a woman, you have two choices. You can be criticised for all the work you've had done, or you can be criticised for looking rough. In their eyes? Which one do you want to pick? And I sort of think, oh, maybe I don't have to choose one of those. You don't.

You don't, because it's rough in their eyes. Look at Helen Mirren, Judy Dench, who are absolutely embracing their older. faces, they're fabulous older faces, and saying, this is me, I've lived a great life and I'm still living a great life. And do you know, if a friend everyone wants said to me, and I didn't judge her for it, because I think we all sometimes absorb that kind of subconscious, you know, that unconscious wise without even realising. But she said, the thing is, men just get so much better when they get older and women don't men get better looking. And I said, no, men are allowed to get older. Exactly. Do they get better looking when they're older?

I mean, or do we just accept that this is what an older man that's like? Like you say, they're allowed to get older. Whereas women have to be this ideal, you know, be constantly on and constantly beautiful for society. But don't know like you've tried. No, don't know like you try. Don't know like you care. Oh, no, that's very distasteful, most distasteful. How crude.

Yeah, I can see that idea of, you know, just wanting to make her. a life for yourself. It's to do with independence, I suppose, as well, isn't it? It's that I can always look after myself. I won't be dependent on anyone, you know? Oh, absolutely. I didn't, you know, I never wanted to live at home. I wanted my own house. I wanted to be out and do my own thing. And so were you, when you were at university, were you thinking, did you have a goal in mind? Did you think, right, I'm going to start working, I'm going to go into financial journalism? No, I didn't want to work. That's the best of the only reason I applied to City University to do a postgrader because I didn't want to go out

in the real world and work. I mean, I always had jobs. I've worked since I was 13. I had a paper round when I was 13 and then worked in the off licence from 16-17. I love nagrily off-license. Oh yeah. Victoria wine, that's what it used to be called. They don't exist anymore. I bet you were good. Imagine if I came in, hello, can I have 20

b-a-nate? No, I would have smoked salt cup. Can I have 20 silk cup please? And what I've tried to buy cider and some woodpecker cider. You were posh. We were strong, though. White lightning. I grew up in high goat macker.

We had a white lightning on the strong boat. We were a better class of teenage drunk. Pink Perry, do you remember that? My grandmother would give us baby sham as well. That's posh at the pinkie. That's before your time. You left and you went into sort of financial journalism really, didn't you? Yeah, because I did my postgrad and newspaper journalism.

And everyone wanted to do foreign or politics. And so I just thought, well, I'm good at maths. So I'm going to, I like numbers. And what I loved about financial journalism, what I'd love to, what I learned to love, was that people are scared of numbers and people don't want to talk about money and they don't want to give it the importance it obviously has because it seems a bit boring and pointy-headed. So I loved the idea of being able to make it interesting, make it relatable. And then worked in market-related jobs, so the stock market and the equity, you know, equity markets, bond markets. economics and so learn all about that and realize just how it makes the world go around basically doesn't it so did you ever see yourself thinking you know using that knowledge and thinking okay i could maybe

go and work for Goldman Sachs and i could have done yeah i could have done um it was interesting that you didn't but i just didn't want that what i love about being a journalist is every day is different yeah you hear different stories you know the news you know the news you know the news is happening, it's news by its very name, new. The new stuff is the news. You don't know what's going to happen. You may have a routine, like, you know, I've got three fixed days doing radio and three fixed days doing breakfast, but you don't know what you're going to be talking about. You don't know who you're going to be talking to. And it's immediate. So you have to just be on all the time. And of course, if you're an investment banker, you're on, but it's, you're on in

a kind of narrow confine, in my view. And I'm sure investment bankers, if any listening to this would just go, she doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. Our jobs are fascinating and good, I'm playing. My investment banker demographic has just gone out the window because of you, Nagger. I'm furious. But you ended up interested in that transition to TV because you were working for things like Reuters and then CNBC. So was it kind of a gradual thing that you were?

When did that moment happen when you thought, I'm quite good at actually communicating information? But I was doing that already. Producers do that. Right. They're writing scripts and they're selling their ideas. They're selling stories. So you are already communicating.

You're just not doing it in front of the camera. But when did you realise you were natural and good on camera? Well, I was rubbish the first time I went on camera, as most people are. Really? Because, yeah, I always looked really young when I was younger. And I had this image that you had to have a certain amount of gravitas, you know, and be serious. and I just wasn't me. And it takes a long time to be confident enough to say,

okay, I'm going to put me on camera with my knowledge and not worry if people like me. I'm not going to be offensive, obviously, but you're just going to have to accept that when you find something interesting, show it. When you think something's important, show it. When you think something's worth talking about, make it clear, make people listen.

And it's never about you being heard, it's about the story being heard, or another person's story being heard. We are facilitators, even now whenever I interview anyone, I'm getting them to tell me their story. And it's interesting that, isn't it? Because I think when you're talking about when you start out, was there a sense of you sort of doing an impression of what you thought a presenter should be like? And it takes a long time to shake that off. And so I remember when I first tried, I was awful, and I went into production. And I just loved poking around

and finding the important lines, you know, the key messages. And so I learnt my craft that way. And you never lose that. When you meet someone, you kind of, oh, what do you mean by that? You know, to get to the nub of the story. I just think it's a skill and it's a rewarding skill when you get someone to tell you something,

they didn't know they were going to tell you. I need to ask you about BBC Breakfast because I'm obsessed with it. Are you? Oh yeah. I just love it. I love you and Charlie, the dream team. I don't know why, but I just feel...

It really feels like how I want to consume the news because I feel really safe, uncomfortable with you guys, but you feel like my bright friends who are going to... You're going to sort of hold my hand through it, but you'll have a laugh with me as well. That dawned on me during COVID really heavily. It was not that I ever underestimated the responsibility we have to deliver the news,

especially breaking news and awful breaking news. But COVID was the time when so many people felt lonely and they needed some consistency, something constant. And we were that. Breakfast was that because we were on air and, you know, yeah, we may have been sitting, miles apart on that red sofa. But we were there and people knew that there was some routine because routine became so important, didn't it, during COVID?

And you really realised that you had to be the friends that would ask the questions that you weren't in a position to ask of government, of the experts, and not scare people because people were scared, as we were, you know, all human beings, all worried about where's the world going to go to. and that really was a moment for me in my journalism career where I realised just how important breakfast is how much because you feel very natural which is why I think I think why I respond to you guys

and your dynamic is very natural but I wonder presumably there are times when you hear a lot of emotional stories you know you're dealing as you say with rolling news which can be traumatic stuff you're having to deal with Have you ever cried on it? Yes. A few times.

I don't make a habit of it. No one wants to see us crying or, you know, not in control. But we're human beings. And witnessing, for me, it's witnessing someone's pain. You can't help but empathise. And you know how important it is that they're telling their experience, but they're in an environment that they're not comfortable in. And that's a big part of the job, making people comfortable and feel secure enough to tell their stories because it's important to them and to tell it well.

Because, you know, you'll listen back to your podcast and go, did I ask the right question there? Imagine if you're telling something so personal, maybe for the first time. And I have, when Grenville happened, that happened, you know, that was happening the morning we were on. and it was very, very hard because we had the fear of having witness 9-11. The fear of, are we going to see people being forced out of their flats, you know, out of the building? And what about the firefighters?

And, yeah, it was very upsetting. And I wasn't there. I was watching it and reporting it and trying to kind of keep calm and say, we're only going to bring you the information we know. we're not going to speculate, we're telling you what's happening, but there's a great responsibility

to deliver that calmly in a measured fashion, but not in a cold fashion, not in the sense that you're so distant from it that you are just a reporter, just a, you know, a presenter giving you information. Because you're sort of speaking for a community as well in the way. Partly what I like it is when guests come on. So someone I love,

I've done a lovely pun there, Louis Capaldi, who I'm obsessed with. I love him. And he's Ray's favourite. Ray sleeps to him. Lewis was a bit naughty, but that's why we love him. He said a rude word, but that's why we love him. He's so funny and so nice. And what was interesting, I really, it's kind of like, I make my mind up about people about how they are on the sofa with you and Charlie.

Because I think if you get on with Charlie and Nagar, you can stay. I'm taking that as well. I'm going to have a little notebook, charismatic. And if you get on with Naga and Charlie, then you're all right. But do you know what I mean? I think, oh, you're one of our gang, it's fine. That's why it's that intimacy. It's really weird, doesn't it?

But it does feel to people. It's intimate. You're going into their bedroom sometimes you're in your pajamas. Yes, I mean, the number of people who still think it's funny to say, I woke up with you this morning. Oh, do they say that all the time? Do you also get asked all the time? What time do you get up?

How much sleep? Yes. Are you going to ask? No, because I know you get a five, you're happy with five hours. Yeah. Yeah, I am. I do my research.

That's fine. I'm glad to hear it. Five hours isn't much now. No, I do get one night of like eight. But I'm happy on five. Anything more is a bonus. I'm quite functional on five. But that, you know, there's, of course there's this thing, isn't it?

Oh, you should get eight hours sleep. But we're all different, aren't we? You know, a 5K run might be a breeze for some people and it might be a real effort and a mountain to climb for others. It's fine as long as you're moving. As long as you're challenging yourself, it's fine. We're all different. You just have to know what you need

and give your body what it needs. Sleep is so important. So yeah, on a Saturday night, at the end of my week, I will more often than not sleep eight, maybe nine hours. But then my back aches in bed, so I have to get up and move. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it.

And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.