Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Naga Munchetty (Part Two)

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

The rain has eased off - and we’re in Regent’s Park with the fabulous Naga Munchetty!Naga us about show she experienced excruciating periods from the age of 15 - and how that led her to writing her new book It’s Probably Nothing - where she draws on her own experience of being dismissed, undiagnosed and misdiagnosed to explores the devastating outcome of decades of ingrained medical misogyny. We also find out how Naga deals with criticism, behaviour she won’t stand for on the train - and the *very* usual thing she does between courses at dinner…It’s Probably Nothing: Critical Conversations on the Women's Health Crisis and What We Can Do About It is out now. You can buy your copy here! Follow @tvnaga on Instagram Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with BBC Breakfast presenter Naga Mancetti. Do go back and listen to Part 1 if you haven't already. And do, by the way, read Nagas incredibly powerful and compelling book. It's probably nothing. Critical conversations about the women's health crisis. It's available to buy online or in bookshops now. And do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Naga and Ray Reh.

You've got a very strong inner voice, I think. Do you know what I mean by that? No. Okay, I'll explain. Again, very direct. I like it. No, some people would have been polite, not nagger. That was polite.

You asked me a question and I answered it. What I mean by polite is some people would have lied and pretended to understand and say, yeah, let's move this and on. And you didn't. But then I'd just be found out. I think you're just quite direct and I like that. Okay. What I mean by the inner voices, it feels like, you know, some people I feel have a showrunner in their head saying, I think it would be good to do this and then next you can do that and you can do that.

I have a drunk in my head. I don't know what I have in my head, but they need to sort themselves up. But I feel like there's an organised showrunner in your head. I've never ever thought about anything like that. Do you know, I just think I am someone who would be very anxious if I thought someone had an issue with me and couldn't tell me or wasn't telling me.

And so I apply that to my interactions. So I wouldn't be rude. But I would be direct. And if I didn't understand something I'd say, and if I didn't like something, I'd say, I don't like what you're doing. Would you say that, yeah? That's great.

Do you have no problems calling friends saying, I'm a bit pissed off about X, Y, Z? I wouldn't have to call them. They'd know straight away. But that's what I'd want from them. Yeah. Okay, I need to borrow the Naga showrunner. We need to talk about your brilliant book, which is called It's Probably Nothing,

and I don't need to tell you what it's called. You spent bloody months, years, working on it. But it's not only a really important book, but I just found it so compelling and fascinating. You read it in one sitting. Yeah, I read it in one sitting, and it was so eye-opening to me. And it will be to a lot of people, because it's essentially about women,

well, what you want women to do is to start advocating for themselves in healthcare because it turns out we're getting a pretty shoddy deal a lot of the time. Yeah, and I'll make clear from the outset, I don't think that there's a single healthcare worker who goes out of their way to make a woman or a patient feel bad or who doesn't want to heal them, fix them, treat them. I think there is a tradition in medicine that has been male dominated and seeing the woman's body as an adjunct to male and maybe less valuable even though we're the ones who birth. Not that that is our only value. And not in my case. Nor in mine. I think that when you read the book there's a whole history. There's a history chapter

which explains hysteria. It's being the hysterical woman. And this was from the ancient root. Plato, the word hysteria was for womb hysteria. Isn't that awful? We had no chance. Literally the ancient Greeks were calling us hysterical if we had a womb. And all the emotions attached to it. And I think we just need an understanding of where this has all come from. You know, when women had to fight to be able to practice medicine when it was deemed that women didn't need pain relief.

And it was only when Queen Victoria in her, journals wrote about having chloroform when she gave birth that then it was seen that the the more upper-class women could ask for it but the working women well they were made for pain they were used to pain because they were hardy but if you're a woman of a certain class then of course you could ask for pain relief and even then it was up to the doctor to decide whether you got it the male doctor yeah so there is a history of women being denied or expected to enjoy your pain or being denied pain relief. And it comes, it's born now into periods, for example.

That heavy bleeding, it is common, but it's not normal. And just because it happens to a lot of people, it doesn't mean it's okay. And if things negatively impact our lives, we have to be able to say it without feeling that we're showing we're weak, that we're not coping. Like I say in the book, I spent a lot of time thinking, I want to be able to say, wasn't good at being a woman. After being told, well, everyone has periods. And you describe what happened and how you'd had heavy periods since you were young?

15, yeah. Since you were 15. And we're having to go to the sort of lengths, which horrifying Lienager just felt relatable to me. Yes. Although, we'll go on to it, but you have a, obviously, you fortunately have now been diagnosed, so you understand. Well, you say fortunately, what the diagnosis is. does nothing, but we'll come to that. But it's almost like I think,

I don't remember having these conversations really with my friends either, that you were having to do these things like laying out, a heartbreaking thing where you sleep on the floor because you decide that the pain of sleeping on the floor, the discomfort will distract you from your internal discomfort of your period. You know, like if you're in pain, and sometimes you dig your thumbnail into your hand. Have you ever done that?

Yeah. It's the equivalent of that. And I have done that many times. And having to set alarms and things to change my period products. In the middle of the night? Yeah. Every three hours. And I'm not bleeding at the moment.

There's a little spider on you. Even the spiders are attracted by your charisma. I'm not bleeding at the moment. That's under control through hormonal treatments. But when I did, yeah, you. you know, setting alarms, I would faint, I would throw up, I would be, have immense cramps, screaming cramps, you know, hot water bottle would, what's like going to do? You know, nothing. Paining my legs, feel awful. But you just cracked on because that was normal, apparently. People have periods, that's what I was told. Or you'll grow out of it, or it'd be better when you have a baby. Oh yeah, yeah. That's the answer to everything.

Have a baby. And then when later in life, just have a hysterectomy. Because why don't we just cut a big chunk out of you? Because that's fine and that'll fix it. Even though you've just been told your adenomyosis, which is the condition I was diagnosed with, has spread outside my uterus. And this, it's adenomyosis, which I've got to be honest about my ignorance.

I didn't, until I read your book, I heard of endometriosis. I didn't even know about adenomyosis. I didn't until I was diagnosed with it. at 47. I didn't know. I'd never heard of it. And is it similar to endometriosis? Yes, it's known as the evil twin of endometriosis. They're both evil. And it's where the lining of the endometrium cells grow outside the uterus into the muscle wall. And what happens is when you're during your cycle and say you're releasing estrogen, the endometrium responds, flares and you'll get pain because it tears your muscles. And so that's how it's

diagnosed, you can see it through the scan, but actually the only way to 100% determine if you have adenomyosis is to examine the uterus, which can only be done when the uterus is outside the body, so you have to have a hysterectomy. And even then when it's diagnosed, it's a combination of hormonal treatments or hysterectomy, painkillers, but it doesn't go. There's no cure. It's like endometriosis. And interestingly, with adenone and endo, because there's a suspicion, I have endometriosis is those bits of uterine tissue, uterine lining, they can travel throughout the body. So there are women who, and you would have read, women who have had endometriosis that have spread to the lungs, which they've had to fight to prove has happened.

Because so little is known about it. Yes, so little research. Less than two and a half percent of public medical research funding is spent on women's gynecological or reproductive issues. Less than two and a half percent. Well, that's why it's... That's why you need to know these figures. And it's not to...

You can rage. We can rage against the machine. We will be raging against the machine for the rest of our lives. But if you know this, you are armed with, okay, this is the situation. It's not me thinking I'm making a fuss.

It's not, it's not me making a big deal about something that everyone goes through. It's me knowing this is the situation and I will help my GP. I will help my health practitioner by saying these are the symptoms, I've looked this up or this is a list of my symptoms, this is my diary, this is my calendar, these are the days I've missed from work, these are the days I couldn't take my child to school, these are the days I couldn't care for my elderly parents, these are the days I couldn't cook a meal. And unfortunately those are very female traditional roles, but unfortunately that is what is heard to be important. Or as you would have read in the book, my husband isn't getting sex.

Therefore my vaginismus or my UTIs which are making sex so painful for me that my husband isn't getting sex. Oh, that'll get treated as an emergency. There you go. Now we'll listen. Let's go down here. So did you ever have, presumably, you know, like a lot of women who are struggling with conditions like this, you're just having to hide it because not only... Oh, yeah. You remember you shoved the tampon up your sleeve, didn't you? Yeah.

You tried not to be too long in the toilet. Well, there was a shame if someone saw your tampon. You bleed? Women bleed? You need period products? And when I think back, I think part of what I love about your book is it's also, I think women need to, oh look at the little gozlings. Nagar the Ryan Goslings. We've got Mummy and Daddy and four beautiful yellow tinged gozlings walking away from us. Raymond's not going to, oh, he's in your arms.

Would he have bothered them? The only thing is, I'd better not put him down, Nagar, because they might get, the geese might think he's got designs on the, they don't know how gentle he is. Oh, aren't they sweet, naga? This is mummy goose because she's smaller, just waiting for the fourth while they're having a bit of sip of water out of the puddle. Hello, we're not going to bother you, don't worry. I like the mummy goose's legs.

They look like mine before I've had a spray town. They're very pale pink and very slim, slightly knobbly. Well, it was about time you found out. But yeah, it's that shame attached to it. it and I'm wondering as well with your job particularly I you know you're having to get up at someone godly hour and it's that thing of always being on a large part of your job is about presenting yourself quite literally so I don't know when I was reading it I was thinking of you and we've all been in those situations I've had it as well I've been on bloody friends couches and I thought oh

god I'm going to go come on Ray you're going to slow us down see do you see do you see He just takes his time. Well, he's the boss. He knows his place. Come on, Ray. I think one of the reasons your book really personally really did affect me

actually was because I lost my sister and she died, she was diagnosed with stage four cancer and she died three weeks later. Wow. And everyone said, God, that was so swift. And was it?

Of course, looking back now, her, she was going to the doctor. I was probably a bit of hepatitis. You only had a baby 10 or 11 months ago. And do you know what? Actually, sometimes, I just burst into tears thinking of that, that a woman of 43 years old, 42 she was when the symptoms had been happening, was walking around with stage 4 cancer thinking that was what it was like being a woman. Those symptoms were normal.

Do you know what I mean? I absolutely know what you mean And that was a woman who was battling post-birth Yeah You know getting herself back Trying to provide the best she could for her child Trying to survive And take actually

To take the time to say something's not right When all instincts say to you You're not the important one now, the child, the baby is And you know what, she's not the only one And I think, when I read your book I thought God, I wish my sister had read that book But maybe someone else will

And that's really lovely But she had tried, hadn't she? Big gozzlings now We got, hello darlings Hello I want to say hello to them, Nagger But geese don't have a bad PR On the temperament front

Well, they're mothers with their mother And mum and dad with their babies And you're all like huge to them. I really like that you've given me the geese's perspective. Sorry. You know, I can tell you're a balanced. I didn't mean that. What it shows me is that you're a balanced news journalist.

Even with geese. Always both sides of the story, Emily. Even with geese. You're like, okay, we should say just for balance, we must present the geese's point of view. I generally was thinking of the goose. I was thinking, all they want to do is crack on and have something to eat and a bit of water

and I've got this big lumbering person trying to go, hello darling, looming over. It's giant. It's giant looming over them wanting to touch their babies. Get away. Giant, I'll take it. First time I'm in calling a giant. I'm so happy.

A big lumbering giant. I don't mind. I'm happy with lumbering. Own it, own it. But yeah, you know, that's why your book really spoke to me And I think what I think you navigate very well in it is you don't swag off the NHS or the medical or doctors. Nor would I ever. No, you're just saying it's about awareness across the board, isn't it?

It's arming yourself. Yeah. Because look, when people go to the doctors, there's this whole, there's this kind of trope, isn't there? That if a man's gone to a doctor, it must be important because men don't go to the doctors. and they don't talk about their feelings and they're not conscious of their bodies and when something's wrong, you know, it must be wrong. Yet, we don't go to the doctors.

We take months to, one, acknowledge something's not quite right in that we're not coping with it because we haven't tried to fix it ourselves. Two, that we're important enough to have some attention when we should be looking after everything else or running everything else. And then three, we don't want to be. want to bother people. You know, you go into that doctor's appointment and you're conscious that

they're under so much pressure to see so many people and how precious these appointments are. So you quickly run through it and you don't give yourself the time or the importance to be heard and tell your story and tell your experiences in order for you to be fixed so you can go back and contribute to society. But I think also, and this is a point you're kind of making your book but I think we are conditioned more women from very young age to sort of be likable. Not make a fuss. And not make a fuss.

And to people please more. Yeah. So I think there is a tendency. And I certainly have this when I ring the doctor. I'm so sorry this isn't important. First thing I say when I walk in. I never say that. Do you not?

Is that because you've learnt not to? Yeah. Over the years, yeah. I mean, when I was younger, if I had to go in, say, I had a UTI. And I'd mentioned my period, by the way, my periods are really heavy. Oh, yeah, that's normal. And then I literally, I would not say anything. I wouldn't say how it was affecting my life.

And now, if I call the receptionist, okay, I've been bleeding for 20 days, it's not normal. I'm concerned. Can I see a doctor? Yep. Because I've explained what's going. going on. I go into the doctor and I've been bleeding for 20 days. It means this. I feel this. Or it's having no physical impact on me this time. But I'm really worried that I've got uterine cancer, for example, which recently, you know, was recently a case. When I found a lump in my

breast and I flagged it, this was last year, I flagged it. And the system is brilliant now. You go into like a one-stop shop and they do everything for you really quickly. But even at that point, I was like, oh no, I can't have an appointment here because I work. And then I kind of just take the damn day off work. Yeah. You know, it's like work was more important because I didn't want to let anyone down. And there was no issue me taking a day off work. Because I had to add a medical emergency.

I had a lump. And he needed it checked out. And it was fine. It was all fine. But, yeah, now, if I need to see a doctor, I don't want to see a doctor. I've got better things to do. I'd rather be playing golf. So if I need to see a doctor, I'm going to make sure that they hear what they need to hear with all the information they need to have so that we can come to a solution.

So I don't have to go back to the doctor and they can go and see someone else who needs attention. But I need attention just as much as another person who is ill. If I think I'm ill, something's not right. The consequences of living with it could be tragic, as in your sister's case. and in so many people's cases or negatively impactful on society as well Yeah and I think there is also this taboo

that there's always been around women discussing their bodies in a sort of practical functional way and do you think that's largely to do with this just historically women's body's being, you know, I guess viewed through the male gaze and being seen as decorative or handy if you want to have babies. I think it's very difficult for a woman to feel justified to go to the doctor and say I'm not enjoying sex. Well, sex is sex is painful?

Why is that, Anna Gah? Is it partly, I mean, is it partly physical that we, in a heterosexual relationship, the woman receives? is given the penis and is there to take it. And ultimately it's the man's orgasm that's more important than the woman's, the woman's pleasure. You know, is it societally wrong to be demanding? Because that's what it's seen as if you say, hold on a minute, what do you mean this is for his pleasure?

Well, I suppose it's interesting, you're right, because as soon as you saying I'm not happy with my sex life because it's painful or this is uncomfortable or whatever the reason is, it's having sexual agency, isn't it? Yeah.

It's taking ownership over that and I suppose traditionally there's been this idea that this thing that's done to you, you know? Yes, exactly. And like I said earlier, the number of women who've said to me, I was only taken seriously when I said my marriage was in trouble because we can't have sex or it's painful and he sees it being painful so it's not nice for him. And I'm not blaming men for this.

They've equally been conditioned. You know, there's all those other issues about how long you last and before you have an orgasm. And men not being taught actually sex should be something so pleasurable for everyone. and the ultimate goal isn't an orgasm. Isn't that dog waste? Oh no. Don't say I've got it wrong. Oh no, Naga.

Dispose of dog waste. I've just put a coffee in the dog waste bin. Don't tell on me, Naga. I'm telling it. It's on breakfast tomorrow. Actually, I'm on radio tomorrow. It's on the radio tomorrow. Radio 5 live.

We're going to do a big discussion about putting litter in the wrong. Coffee in the wrong festival. Do you know what I like, Nagu? Just now. What's the word? I'm losing my words. We were talking. just now having quite a serious discussion. Hello. Oh, they're vocal, aren't they the geese,

nager? They're telling you to piss off. You've really got a problem with my relationship with the geese, haven't you? I think you're a bit jealous because they're sort of... You're no goose whisperer, are you? I guess it's such a thing. What a shitty kind of whisperer that is. What happened just now? We said we were having a serious conversation. Yeah, we're having a serious conversation and you said, well, the thing is, I'm not blaming men. I mean, I'm not blaming men.

And the man who walked past, well, he recognised you. Oh, did he looked at you and then he heard you go, I'm not blaming men. And he went, hmm. Is that a nod of approval? I thought he was quite happy that you weren't blaming men. Good. How do you find that? Because I've seen a lot of people just giving a little warm smile.

Oh, have you? I always tend to look down and kind of just be in my own little world. Yeah. You must get recognised quite a lot. Yeah, well, BBC Breakfast is the biggest breakfast programme in the country. Most watched and, you know, the BBC is an institution. You know, it's part of our culture, isn't it? But how does it affect you personally?

What's the impact of having that many eyeballs on you? Well, firstly, this is not a woe is me conversation. But what happens is you are mindful of. of your behaviour in public more so than I think most people, you know, people who aren't on air are. Not that I want to go and I don't know, take a dump in public or something like that, but I don't know.

Well, it doesn't it still Raymond. No, no, I do envy Raymond and his freedoms. But that's, you, look, when you work for the BBC or work for any organisation, you are representing them. You know, because people recognise, you and if you're seen as a face of the BBC you unconsciously but necessarily uphold certain values right um and it's like you said earlier you know you trust when you watch breakfast you feel like you've got some trusted friends who are getting you through the day and through the news

there would be a slight disappointment i think if you saw me i don't know A bit boring drunk rolling around the floor and, you know, shouting profanities. So you watch yourself. Although I have my friends and I have my regular haunts where I have one place where I used to go quite a lot. And because I sleep between courses of dinner, if I'm very tired. Yeah. My superpower is I can sleep any timely place in a way. So you're just sitting at the table.

I could curl up right there and sleep in the park. park. Yeah. Now, wonder you only need five hours sleep a night. And there was a place that would always put me in the corner so I could have a little snooze between courses and my friends would all crack on. And so any time, so if New Year, for example, if we have friends over and then we go out at midnight, I would sleep between dinner finishing until about half 11 and then get up. All my friends are used to it. And if I go to a party, one of the first. friend's houses, oh, Rez Nagger, it's half ten. She's just gone into one of the beds and had a, having a sleep, get her up in an hour.

You're like a golden locks on the three beds. Constantly disappearing up stairs. I think I've always been like that. You know, you go to a party and there's a pile of coats. Most people are like, oh, how am I going to find my coat? I'm like, oh, that looks comfortable. Honestly. You are really coming across.

me. Is it lazy? Good for nothing. Dopey out of the seven dwarfs. No, you just are someone, when you tell me that, that is someone who really doesn't worry too much about what people are going to say or what they think of them. That seems to me like someone who's fairly comfortable.

Do you know how that's come about? How do you think it is? It's come about from being bashed. A lot on kind of social media and in the press over the years. Yeah. And you have to get to a place. You have to get to a place where you think, one, are they justified, are they right?

Not justified, are they right? And more often than not, they're not. And then why are they saying it? Have you any control over it? No. Yeah. And then talk to the people you trust, your friends and family

and they'll tell you trust me my friends and family will tell me if I'm being a twit and if it happens so when you've gone through that quite a lot you end up because you've had to have

be quite introspective you kind of come to a place where you just say look I'm a good person I'm kind I'm trying to do good things I'm trying to work hard and be my best

some people just don't like me and that's fine we're all my might Well, I tell about Ray. No, Ray's not. Ray's like sweetness, honey and light. So Nagar, what do you think of Raymond? I think Ray is a mini-E-Walk.

I think Ray is very well behaved. I think Ray knows he is at the top of the pile in this group because he manipulates you whenever he wants to get carried somewhere. I think Ray is very comfortable in his own skin. I also think Ray smells. That's not of the best ones. Ask everyone what they think. I've never had one like that, Naga. I love Naga. How much Naga was my friend? I think I'd feel very positive about life if you were my friend. Well, I wouldn't let you be down on yourself in life. Where are you? I can't find your head with all this hair.

Can I just say Nagas talking about Raymond, not me? Yeah. This is a good position. Oh, yeah? No, I'm very much, like, with my friends now, I won't let them put themselves down. kind of bored of hearing people put themselves down and underestimate their worth and their value because we get knocked enough. Just don't knock yourself.

Be self-critical by all means. Why shouldn't you be? That's how you become better. But don't knock yourself. And, you know, I will, if I pass someone who's a great pair of shoes or, you know, has done something really funky, I passed this woman in the toilet the other day

and she had her hair all shaved short and she had it all dyed like leopard spots and she looked brilliant and I just went I think your hair's fantastic and I because you have to be quite careful don't you you don't say oh you look really pretty with that haircut yeah you say you know I think your hair

looks fantastic and she was like oh thanks and I just went how long did it take she went oh hours I said it's worth it don't you think I think it is she was like yeah thanks you know and just I don't know her from Adam but someone said something nice to her that day. Yeah. Why not?

See something you like, say it. Where's the harm? See something you don't like, keep your mouth shut. It's true, isn't it? Do you ever have vulnerable moments when you feel, when you cry or feel down? And how does that manifest itself? How do you work through, you know, just moments of self-doubt and stuff that we all go?

Oh, I have them all the time. All the time. I have to rationalise them. I think things can be amplified really quickly when you have a public profile. And, you know, being criticised, people do think that, or they don't think, really, people believe they can say whatever they want to say and hurt someone's, and not think if they're hurting someone's feelings. And not think if what they're doing is actually productive or just saying things for the sake of things.

But I've had people come up to me saying, I don't like you on telly. Your radio show's all right. It's quite interesting, but I don't like you on telly. I never watch you. I'm like, okay. Kind of don't even rise to it now. I don't engage in it. Whereas before I think when I was younger,

I'd have said, oh, what don't you like? I don't care. You think your opinion's so important that you get to tell me you don't like me. So I'm a stranger to you. Or people who just say, oh, I don't like what you're wearing today. All right.

I'm not wearing it for you. I'm just wearing clothes. You know, it doesn't even matter if they comment on Charlie's tie. It's not this whole thing about, oh, they don't say anything about them, but they say something about me. They've chosen to say something about me, and it's affecting me. I can't be comparing myself to everyone else. No, but it is interesting, I think, how. That whole thing about men and what they wear being examined, but they wear something very plain.

Yeah. You know, and the whole rule of especially television wear is you don't wear anything that distracts from what you're saying. Right. But I could wear the same thing every day, but that in itself would be distracting in this day and age. And we all have our own personalities and we all like clothes. You know, I like wearing nice clothes. You thought about that beautiful jacket you're wearing with all the embroidery on the back. Oh, dear, I love that you like this.

This is an old vintage one and I'm recycling it. I could tell. It's really gorgeous. Do you know, when you think, I'm so glad I never try. that out because it feels like a classic now yeah it's beautiful hang on to these classics girls yeah we care about you know we do care about clothes and we do care about how we look and how we're turned out well it's self-expression isn't it that's like i don't need your approval but this is how this is what i feel comfortable in yeah and i think you know when people say oh you've put on the best thing people say is oh you're not as fat as you look on telly like yeah

Yeah. I remember moving into my house once in this woman. She was lovely. This woman recognised me as I was walking. It was the day I'd moved in and I was walking down the high street to sort out my bank account. You know you swap over your bank accounts

and your address and stuff. Oh yeah. And she said, Naga, BBC, BBC, Naga. And I went, oh, hello. And she went, oh, on the television. And then she put, I can't do it because I'm holding Raymond.

No. But she put her, she did the whole gesture. You look so wide. So wide. on the television. You're not wide. And then she said, what size are you?

Oh my God. And I kind of thought, this is such a weird conversation to have a stranger. Yeah. But I actually now would not blink at having that conversation. I'd just kind of,

you know, I probably even told her my size. And she said, yeah, you look much bigger than that, much bigger. I was just, and I was so polite. Whereas now I'd say, I would actually say,

I don't think I need to tell you what size clothes I wear, do I? And I'd kind of say it in a niceish way with a bit of a smile, with irony, but I have a lot more confidence about that now. Yeah, sometimes, do you know, Naga, I'm finding, increasingly as I get older, actually, thank you, menopause, I'm finding it much easier because I'm not, I think, on some subconscious level, driven by the need to appear feminine or attractive, it's kind of liberating.

So I find myself, it's great. I now look at all these fabulous old matrix and I model myself on them. I see all these sort of, you know, like from those old soaps, like those kind of, you know. Are you going to say El Dorado? No, Elsie Tanner, I was going to say. Oh, Elsie.

Oh, yes. The women with the big hair as well. But traditionally called a battle axe. And you know what? I'm leaning into my battle-ax era. Yes, but you know what is that? What man has been called a battle-ax? Well, Catherine Ryan, and this is why I love for us, called her new tour battle-ax. Because she's taking ownership of it.

I like that. I like being the old bag in a bathrobe who comes out. I shouted at some French boys on the beach the other day because they were throwing stones. I shouted at some boys on the tube the other day. So there's attention, say, gosh, or what did you say? Well, they were throwing things. like a little bits of tissue or whatever down the carriage and then laughing giggling and I went stop it I was really angry did they start they really annoyed me I've got so many things that annoy me um and um oh

I'll tell you what did just last week actually and so they were just like what we're not doing anything I said I'm not stupid even if you may be I can I have eyes and I've seen you through a thing stop it you're annoying everyone and you wonder do you wonder why it why anyone might might think you're a bunch of idiots. Just stop it. You're in your school uniform so we know where you go to school. Be smarter. I'm not doing anything. Was that there being not doing anything? Like the in between us. Sorry, miss. And then, and so they got off at like the stop before I was getting off. And this gentleman, this man came up to me and went, I don't know. He said, I'm not sure it's the smartest thing to say because I'm really glad you said it. I'm so mad.

I'm just so annoyed. So the other day, I'm sitting on. I'm sitting on. I'm sitting. on the tube going into work. And there was this bloke, groan, blow, it must have been in his 40s or something, playing his phone, playing some music or some videos, really loud. And everyone had done the polite thing

looking at them. And I was trying to read a book and I had my headphones in. And he's playing this. And I actually couldn't figure out if it's him or the gentleman next to him. I just get looking at him. And I just kind of said,

that's loud. just to myself and he ignored it and so then this family came on and I was in the tube in one of those seats of four you've got two opposite each other and they came to sat down

and they two sat opposite me and then the father and son the mother and daughter sat opposite and the father and son I'm going to sit away and I said no look take this seat I'm getting up

because that man's playing really loud music and I don't want to listen to it anymore and I walked away it was very ineffective because I'm sure he just carried on playing and I just stomped my way down the carriage I wish I'd almost been braven just said Can you please stop?

Before I let you go, Naga, am I allowed to ask about Mr Naga? You can. Not as a person, but I'm just interested, for my purposes, in what he would say about you. What would Mr Naga say

was your best quality? Well, I'm not being evasive, but that's up to Mr Naga to say, isn't it? I like that you have to say, isn't it? leaning into Mr Naga. What do you hope he'd say would be your best quality? She's got my back,

which he knows I have. That's a lovely thing. That's what it's about, isn't it? And with your friends, what do you... Is that similar? Would you like them to say that about you? Absolutely. She's got my back.

Can I just show you my dog's face? I've never seen him so blessed out in his entire life. life. Do you know why? You've got his back. So even though I don't have children, I've never been pregnant, I am known as a bit of a baby whisper on some of my friends who've had babies, because I don't care. So I don't sit there all anxious. Oh, look at you. I don't sit there all anxious or worried about whether they cry or anything. That's why you're good with Raymond. Yeah, he's staying here. He's comfortable. He's safe. He's comfortable. Was he going to moan about nothing? I think maybe you must have a calm energy or something. I bet you didn't think

that would be the case before we met. I'm not going to take the fifth, I'm going to answer that. Good. I, no, you're very chilled out. You've got what I would call the elite athletes quality. Do you know what I mean by that? No. No, and again, you're honest, you'll admit it.

It's kind of poise. Never been told that. It's kind of a... It's that quality you need to take a penalty for England. Oh yeah, I'd be good at that. Oh yeah. I do breaking news for a living. Yeah. Assess the situation.

Know your skills, know your strengths, apply them, do it. Get the job done. You'd be very good in a crisis. Yes. You'd be my top three. Yes. Very good. I'd ring you. I'd say, Naga, what am I going to do?

I'm in Germany. Just randomly picked Germany. I don't know why. I've lost my passport. I've lost my credit cards. You'd say, okay, I'm going to sort this. Easy. Easy.

that's not a crisis. Is it not? No. I like to make a drama crisis, isn't it? Yeah, so I don't make dramas out. Do you not? No, I don't like drama. I don't like drama.

When do you, I can't imagine, because you're very direct. Direct people in my experience don't tend to lose their temper a lot. You didn't answer the question. Oh, God, what was the question? Who did you think you? What kind of person did you do?

You're absolutely right. That wasn't intentional invasiveness. I, yes, because I mentioned the elite athlete thing. So you seem very poised and kind of, yeah, calm. But who did you think you were doing? So what I thought, I think I thought you'd be more formal and less relaxed. And I think I thought you'd be more buttoned up. And what that's to do with is to do with me seeing you on TV.

and you're often, that's always the case with people who are delivering news to you. It's always lovely. But I've met people, and we'll discuss this after the podcast, do work in that industry. And they're still similarly quite buttoned up. Whereas you're kind of who I see on the screen, to be honest. You're very much who I would have expected you to be, but, I don't know, there's a gentleness and a calmness about you. None of my friends would ever say that. Yeah, but I see it.

I can see it, Naga. You can't run from me. So I need to find out more about your cats. Bella and Zena. Zena Zena Z-E-N-A warrior princess? X-E-N-A. Oh, X, I'm sorry, X-E-N-A? Yes.

And what kind of cats are they? They're moggis. I've had Siamese, which are the best cats ever. Yes. But these are moggis Because I felt quite bad Because Siamese are their pedigree cats aren't they You spend a lot of money and these weren't rescues

One, Zina came to me because my cat max My big fat black cat max Who was a rescue Died and I popped a little post on social media And that's the only time people are nice, you know When your pet dies It's the only time Even if a human dies

They're less nice about it but if a pet dies, all the nice people come out. And a woman who lived in South London got in touch and said her cat, Maggie died, had been run over, and left these three little black kittens. She had two boys and a girl. And she said, you can have one. When I went to get Zena with Mr. Naga, she said, look, she's not very friendly. just kind of need to

full disclosure it's like she's a kitten how can she not be friendly imagine if people said that about our ass she was in this house she was in this house with two dogs

and they were very boisterous rescue dogs and these two boy kittens were running around and Zena just hated noise so although her name Zena she's far from a warrior princess she's scared of everything

she doesn't hunt she's big and she's very affectionate And then there's Bella, who I got to keep Zina company, who they loved each other for the first year. Now they hate each other. And Bella looks at me as if I'm the spare. I am the spare in the house.

Mr. Naga is her world. And she's a, I get a fresh stomach, licked stomach or kidney or liver. Most mornings, I've had squirrels, voles, birds. And she's smaller than most of the things she hunts. But she's a sassy so-and-so. She's very cute. but she's very picky, which I don't mind. I quite like the cats are so picky and on their terms.

Yes, they're discerning, aren't they? Very. Dogs, they're a bit codependent. Yeah. But then I always say dogs are very, please, please put a ring on it. You know? Cats are just like, yeah, I'm in a bit of a situation ship with you. I might see you next week.

Yes, which is fine. With my lifestyle, it's fine. It works, doesn't it with your lifestyle? I mean, dogs give you everything. Oh, look at this. car, Naga. An old car. What is it? Silver,

bug eyes, a number six on it. Very old number plate. That, what, maroon red soft top. The nice wing mirrors. You see like the Batman car wing mirrors. It's very cool. Nagar, we're nearly getting to the end of our walk and I have to say, what a thoroughly lovely individual you are.

Thank you. What kind of you to say. I really, I think you're good people. I'll take that. Charismatic, good people, elite athlete's mentality. I said mentality. Come on. Oh, well.

I'll race you. Bring it on. I got lumbering just, F-O-L. Lumbering giant. You got, yes. I'm right. Nothing but amused. Lumbering giant.

Smelly dog. Lumbering giant. Well, smelly dog's not an insult. He's a lovely dog, but he smells at the moment. Well, you know, listen, every rose has its thorn. And I honestly mean this. I need you to know how brilliant your book is.

Thank you. And I just urge everybody of every gender to read it because it made me think so much. And also, I think it's really helpful in just helping you advocate for yourself and not apologise for what you need, you know? And once you understand, it's not sort of, berating the system, it's just saying, oh, this has been happening and we need to change it. And also this is happening and we need to understand it so we can be our best within a system

that's not perfect. And the title is so brilliant because it's something you hear women say all the time. And are told. And do you know my sister said that? It's making me cry. It makes me cry thinking about it like so much. And it's really lovely. Oh, compensations a little bit.

Do you know, it's also, I've had lots of women who have cried when reading it or hearing me talk about it because at last they felt heard. Yeah. There's a lot of pain not being heard. So true, isn't it? And you think, actually, that book could be really life-changing for people. Yes. So, so pleased that you've written it.

I think you're fabulous. And you've been so nice to Ray, even though he stinks. Yeah, well, animals smell. That's fine. I've got my like crappy raincoat on that I flung on the floor and I go tramping around in. So that's why Ray's so relaxed. From one stinker to another, eh? Ray.

Ray, can you say goodbye? Ray say goodbye to Nagar. I don't think maybe wants to leave my arms. Would you take him home with you? I think my cat would eat him. Do you think so? Oh, they'd bully the hell out of him. Hey, Nagar.

Bye. Thank you for having me. Sorry I made you cry. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.