Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Niall Harbison (Part One)

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Today, Em and Ray are in London’s Green Park with a man who has become a global hero to dog lovers everywhere… it’s Niall Harbison! Niall is a global sensation through his work with abandoned dogs in Thailand. After vowing to change his life after a severe alcohol addiction left him on the brink of death - Niall found his calling feeding, rescuing and sterilising dogs. Now with over 1.2 million Instagram followers - Niall has inspired people across the world to be kinder to dogs. In this part of our chat, we discuss Niall’s childhood and the effect of seeing his mum as a victim of domestic abuse, what it was like working as a private chef for one of the founders of Microsoft and how reaching rock bottom helped him find his calling. Follow @niall.harbison on Instagram Niall’s book Tina: The Dog Who Changed The World is out now! You can get your copy here!Read more about Happy Doggo’s work to fix the world’s street dog problem at https://www.happydoggo.com/Follow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Have you ever seen those memes in the internet where they're like 500 years ago you had to like forage for your own food? And now he's been carried around the park. Yeah, his poor relatives had it a bit tougher. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I took a stroll with a man he's become a global hero to dog lovers everywhere. Due to the tireless work he does rescuing street dogs in Thailand, the incredible Nile Harbison. So many of you who listen to this podcast, follow him on Instagram and have to be. had been begging me to have him on. So I was thrilled to hear he was coming over to the UK

so we could take a walk and find out a bit more about his amazing story. And Ray couldn't wait to give him a big old cuddle and say thank you on behalf of dogs all over the world. Nile didn't start out working with dogs. He spent his early years working manic hours as a chef and then became a very successful businessman. But all this while, he was struggling with a serious addiction to alcohol and prescription drugs.

In 2018, he decided to relocate to Thailand, but his addiction spiraled, and he found himself in the ICU pretty close to death. And it was that rock bottom moment that led to him turning his life around and following what he now sees as his calling, helping and saving street dogs. It started with just feeding a few of them kibble every day. It then began to expand into the huge charitable organisation he runs today, Happy Doggo, which has vaccination and sterilisation. programs and a hospital now being built entirely for dogs. And there was one particular dog, a golden retriever named Tina, who really touched Nile's heart and who also captured all of our hearts via his Instagram. Tina very sadly lost her battle to kidney failure, but she continues to inspire all of Nile's

work, and he's written a beautiful book all about their story called Tina, the dog who changed the world, which is so moving and uplifting. I can't recommend it enough. I also cannot recommend Nile enough as a human being. He's so genuinely humble and kind-hearted and clearly a bit overwhelmed by all of this attention. And he really does have an extraordinary connection with dogs. Ray was just besotted with him.

I'm not going to lie, I did start to feel a little bit jellybags. I know you're going to love Nile, do buy his book, Tina the Dog who changed the world. And by the way, Nile's putting all of his proceeds from it directly back into his Happy Doggo Foundation. so buying it is a great way to help him make a difference. I'm going to stop talking now and hand over to the wonderful man himself. Here's Niall and Ray Re-Re.

You know what, Niall? I think he's really zen in your presence. He really likes you. I love him. He's so cute. You talk about these dogs that you think are kind of, I don't know, I said, sent to you, but you feel like, do you know what I mean by that? I think a lot of people say it about different dogs and they find them at different times of their lives. Yeah. What age is he actually? He's eight. Oh, is he?

But they live a long time small dogs, don't they? He lived too. No, that's made me feel so much better. He'll live till he's 100. Definitely. Because you know, I think about that and it's the one thing... Don't even think about it. Well, you must be used to it.

He's don't get used to it at all. Really? You would think so, but no. Still a dog dying, isn't it? But he's going nowhere. What a life. Right. Let's go for our warmth.

aisle. Can we get you water? No no I don't need anything. I'm not good. No no I'm all good. Do you know what? I suspect I already think you're quite a low maintenance person from what I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are, aren't you? Incredibly. Yeah, yeah. It's like three pairs of flip-flops, 10. Oh, T-shirts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got 10 like happy dougout t-shirts with me this time. I had to buy a jacket. I couldn't believe how cold it wasn't. So it's got a bit warmer today, but Sunday I was like, my God. It's not Thailand, Nile. No, I know. But I was thinking like May, London, might get a bit of heat. You were thinking wrong? Yeah, absolutely. Look. I love his little walk.

How is he fair in Thailand? He'd be a bit hot, Ray, wouldn't he? He would, yeah, but they get through it. I've seen worse, more far than him. Yeah. Do you ever get shitsuit in Thailand? Yeah, a bit of everything, yeah. Really?

They kind of get sort of trendy in their breed dogs. Yeah, you get a bit of everything. Yeah. We're in London's Green Park. Where's High Park then? Is that part of Green Park? Yeah, so High Park, you're actually right, it sort of extends over there.

Yeah. And then St. James's Park, which is the posh one. Yes. That's the Royal One. They're all Royal Parks, I think, can they? It's amazing. I love London. You come here and it's like, I know London a bit,

but you come here and you go around every corner and you're like, oh, there's Marble. Belarch, there's Oxford, you know, like it's a, it's a cool city, isn't it? It feels like being on the Monopoly board. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does, it does. Well, we're with Raymond and I'm often excited to meet people on this podcast, but I honestly mean this, Nile. You must hear this a lot, particularly from dog lovers like me. This feels like a walk with Harry Stiles to me.

Jesus, I've never heard that, but I'm going to use that as a quote. Anybody I meet from now on, I'm going to steal this. Matt, you'll never believe what I heard today. I'll tell my mum that. Because you have become this huge kind of global sensation really through the work that you do with abandoned dogs in Thailand. And this all happened online, didn't it? It all happened through the power of social media essentially.

Words started getting out about you. And we're going to talk about that. but I want to go back to your childhood if that's all right because I've read both your books and I love them both. First question I ask people on this, often, is we talk about their dog. Well, you don't have a dog with you today

because you've got thousands. Yeah, well, hundreds. Yeah. Well, in some ways I like to think you've got more than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because all over the world, I think you're like the spiritual dog father.

But you have all your dogs back home. which is now Thailand. Yeah. When you grew up, tell me about your relationship with dogs and your family and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I was never actually allowed a dog. My dad would never let me have one. I think a lot of parents are like that, you know.

They think the kid is going to have the dog and then they'll get stuck with it, you know? So I was pigeonhole like that. So I don't let him forget that now. That I was tortured. Now I had a great childhood apart from... Yeah, my parents broke up. when I was about 13 and out of the blue, totally out of the blue.

My mum just left one night. And now it was just a bit of a... Look, those men are laughing at how my dog's walking. I saw you. He's so silly, isn't he? No one. Do you? Oh, that's kind of made my day.

I saw them doing an impression of running on walking. Brilliant. I had to call him out now. Yeah, no, no, I think it's compliment, definitely. Yes, wasn't it? Definitely, yeah, yeah, they were loving him. Do you think he needs water for? Yeah, that's him.

He sometimes gets dehydrated now, so I give him out of this. Should we give you some water, Raymond? Sit down for Nile. Sit down for Nile, isn't he? You're a lovely boy, you're going to get some water. Oh, what a cutie. Good boy. Oh, I wouldn't say he's spoilt at all.

Oh, do you think he is now? I would bet a million pounds he spoiled rotten, and rightly so. Well, last night, I gave him the nicest bit of the chicken breast. Oh, nice. Because I was inspired by your book and we'll get on to that. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's your fault, that's what I'm saying. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's getting treats, okay, well, look. But, yeah, your childhood, originally, as you said, it was your mum and your dad. Yeah, yeah. And then your dad took this job in Brussels. Yes. working for... Is it a civil servant? Like, yeah, EU, like the sort of

European Union, basically. Like a civil servant, yeah. And you moved over there, we've about 13 or something. No, I actually moved when I was really small, like one. Oh, well, you're not young, really? Tiny, yeah.

So you were completely bilingual, presumably. Yeah, I speak like French and Dutch, but I kind of like, I'd say I've lost the Dutch at this stage, but yeah, I grew up and going to French school and all that, so yeah, it was... Yeah, it was interesting.

I mean, Belgium's not the most exciting place in the world. I mean, it's all right. It's all right. But you must have been that's quite sort of cosmopolitan in a way, isn't it? Yeah, it does give you a good outlook in that respect. I love that. Went to an international school, so there was all the different nationalities, which I loved. Well, you're kind of quite a regular child, if you know what I mean by that.

I feel like this big moment happened when you were 13. Yeah. That's why I was thinking of the age 13, when your parents. split up. Do you feel you changed a lot as a result of that? Do you know what? It's a good question because I don't know. I don't know if I think I might have just been a bit mental anyway, but I think that might have

sort of accelerated it. He doesn't want to walk, Nile. Why not? That's all right. Oh, do you think that is? He's maybe tired, is he? I could pick him up. Yeah, I can pick him up as well if you want. No, I was going to pick him out. Yeah, your childhood, I feel like this

event happened, that your parents, your mum essentially, I mean, say they split up but feels pretty traumatic because your mum actually left the family home one morning didn't she? Yeah one evening actually she just didn't didn't come home which was just a yeah like shock she left with another guy but that um yes traumatic at the time definitely and then she moved out and with another man and he was abusive and so yeah quite what's the word shapes your life quite a lot a moment like that I think but yeah to answer your question I don't know I think I was quite maybe not good at school and things like that anyway,

but I think that really maybe just gave me an excuse to really go off the rails and not do any schoolwork or anything like that. I think something about your mum leaving, and I understand that as when you become an adult, you understand it. You can make sense of that choice and you can see as an adult her being in that situation. But I think what's difficult as a kid is that you do internalise these things and you think, what did I do? Exactly, I think that's it, isn't it?

You don't have the smarts to... Yeah, I think I would have blamed myself or... Exactly. But now I can see, like, you know, I've talked to her about it and everything and, like, she had very good reasons and, you know, like, it's... As an adult, you can be more rational, you know? Like, she definitely could have done it differently and she would have if she could live it again, but you...

Yeah, tough to process as a kid. So in your first book, Hope, how Street Dogs taught me the meaning of life. Yeah. You say something which I found so poignant and you say when your mum left, it just felt like the joy had gone with her, which was no disrespect to your dad. I think that's a good way of, yeah, well, I obviously wrote it, so that's what I thought. Yeah, it was not just the joy, but just the sort of the family unit, I think.

Or, you know, like your whole world really is just gone and then you feel a bit different. and yeah I think that was very very seminal moment I think it's the word even after that when she was getting beaten up and stuff I was just I just remember thinking and I still do to this day I'm like no matter what I see like nothing's going to be worse than that than your mom getting beaten up or you know so it's good and in terms of not it's good I often I've read a lot about like you can get a lot done but a lot of people who get stuff done or people who've had trauma in their childhood because it's they just there's yeah whatever I see won't be worse than your mum getting beaten up so that's the way

I kind of think of it and that must have been so traumatic for you and again you talk about how you actually walked in you literally saw this happening yeah with her partner oh plenty of times yeah yeah but one time I plucked up the courage yet and walked down the hall and like I could always hear it and it's one regret that I have is that um I think I was a probably 15 at that stage. So still a boy but also big and I'm just like why didn't I get like you know a golf club or a something and fight back and like I mean obviously I would have got beaten up but it is still like that lives with me to this day it's like why didn't I do something more you know but obviously I was just frozen in the moment. It's so interesting seeing those

connections now isn't it of why you've dedicated your life to helping people that can't offend themselves. Yeah, that's true. Not people, dogs, yeah. To helping creatures, yeah. Yeah. Being beings that can't offend themselves. Via, you know, 25 years of alcoholism first before I figured it out. Yeah, that's a good, it's, yeah, there's always things like that, yeah, that you don't even, I hadn't even really made that connection. I mean, it's pretty obvious, but yeah, when you say it like that, it's true. Yeah, it's your redemption art. Yeah, yeah. What you've talked about as well is that when you were going through this, you know, it was a form of unprocessed grief and trauma really with experiencing what happened with your mum

and then on top of this you're experiencing loss and then you're being confronted with domestic violence which no child should ever be, no person should, but especially not a kid being exposed to that. And I find it so interesting that you could already tell you were quite, you were a kid that they did things to the extreme. So it wasn't just I like football, was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was this is all I like. Yeah. Yeah, always, I think everything to the extreme. For some reason, I don't know why, but I'm just, I definitely, like, still to this day,

I haven't been tested for, but I think I have ADHD and God knows what else they'd find, but definitely ADHD where I just couldn't, couldn't concentrate on anything in one period of time. Really, but you're aware of that as a kid? Do you think you were quite a... Yeah, I couldn't sit, like, I loved reading and, like, you know, I would read encyclopedias, and also like I'd trying to learn stuff but then I'd go into the classroom and I'd get kicked out of the class within five minutes

for just misbehaving I couldn't just sit Were you popular at Nile? Maybe in some ways because I'd play football but then a complete loaner as well because I'd just like my own company so if there was football and stuff involved definitely because I don't know just football's easy I was all right at football so you can make connections

but... Well, he's so happy you just grunted. Do you know that grunt they made now? I do a thing where... And only you would understand this, not. I don't tell many people this. But when he goes to bed at night, I stroke his head and I...

Oh God, I feel so embarrassed, but I don't in front of you. And I say you're the most loved boy and you're so special. Thank you for everything you do. It's unbelievable, isn't it? I swear he picks up on it. Oh, he does, of course. And do you know what?

99% of other people... or have their own similar true everybody does that you know like everybody's talking to their dogs and singing them songs you know like I think everybody makes up about 10 different songs for Hank when I get home and yeah everybody is a little

have you ever seen those memes on the internet where they're like 500 years ago you had to like forage for your own food and now he's been carried around the park in Green Park Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're literally in opposite Buckingham Palace. Been given water out of a, like the best still water out of a little bottle cap.

Yeah, his poor relatives had it a bit tougher. Oh, no. But yeah, I think, yeah, I can imagine you being popular. Yeah, in sports, I would say. But then I love my own company. I just loved to, because everybody else had their family, you know, their little brother, sister, mom, dad, whatever. They're you now, whereas it was just me and my dad.

So I was always... You're quite lonely now. No, no, the opposite. Like, I love being on my own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like not lonely at all. And you left school sort of without getting qualifications, really? Anything at all.

My dad actually made me go and do... I was in Belgium. Like, I got kicked out of three different schools. And then he made me go and do like a GCSE in French because I could speak French. Yeah. And he was like, just get this. It'll be.

something to have, you know. And I think I failed that as well. I couldn't, I just couldn't, I don't know, I didn't get it. Even though I could speak French fluently. And you're all right, Mr. You're a good boy, aren't you? Well, you're having a nice time with your friend Nile. He's loving it. His little he's in out of the wind. So yeah, no qualifications, nothing. And then my dad said to me, why don't you go and be a chef, which I don't know where. He just must have seen me in the kitchen hanging around. I think I might have used to potter around the kitchen doing little bits. And I was like, oh yeah, that sounds good. So I fell into being a chef then. And you were still living in Belgium, were you? So did you fly back to Dublin? Yeah. He got me, not he got me,

but he found like a course that you applied for. And you didn't really, I think they were short of chefs or something. There was a crisis and he applied. And all I heard was you get 60 pounds a week to study. Like there was a grant. Like for, and I was like, I'm going to get like 60 pounds a week. So I'm like, you know, sounded like, I don't know, 600 now, you know. And I was like, I'm going to go. So I was like, I'm in. Different country, a little place to live, a spare room somewhere. And 60 pounds. I was like made up. It was brilliant. And then I actually liked the cooking by chance. And your accent, you still have quite a strong Irish accent. And is that because I suppose your dad and your mum? So you speak like your parents, don't you?

Yeah, I think so, yeah. Oh, so you're wiggling. Do you want to go back down or are you okay? Well, sometimes he likes the grass, Nile. Do you want to have a little look at the grass? He prefers the grass to, it's his favourite surface because it's soft. I nearly dropped them there. That'd be it as that.

On the podcast, the broken neck. Ray, Ray, show Nile how you run. Show Nile how you run. Come on. Oh, he's fantastic. I'd say people stop you in the park all the time, do they? Oh, they really do, Nile. Yeah, because he's like a little, uh, he's like a little,

attraction. If he was the same colour as the grass, he'd get nearly lost in there, wouldn't he? He's got the same... Raymond! Oh, he's a great boy. He's getting a bit older now. He's eight, so he's a bit slower, you know, than he was. But I love the dogs.

He's straight to Nile. I love the dogs at that age when they're a bit older because they're just their easer, aren't they? They're just, they're content and they... Don't take this the wrong way? But it's like why I like men when they get a bit older? Oh, they're just easier. You know what I mean? Because they're not running around bars chatting on women all the time.

They've just settled in. They're like, all right, you can calm down now. Do you know what I mean? It's a good point. And he is a boy dog and he is, you will approve. He is, he has been done. Oh, I see. Not that I don't think he'd be causing too much trouble.

He's not exactly a tough guy around the park, is he? I have to say, I wish you could all see this. Raymond is honestly responding to Nile in a way he's just drawn to him. You have this weird magnetism with dogs, I think. He's just, he's such a nice boy. I've never really seen a dog like that, or, you know, been up close to a dog like that. Do you know what I like? He's got an incredibly calm energy.

He does, yeah. A dog trainer, a very nice dog trainer, one you'd like, I think, because he's not one of those, show your dog who's boss, you know, he's actually a nice, treat your dog like a family member. And he said, I think it's interesting that you brought Raymond into your life at a time after loss because he said, I think dogs sometimes they know what they're there to do oddly. Yeah, I think that's true. So it's a form of service animal. I think that's true.

They really mould themselves around you, don't they? Like whatever, they just, yeah, that's definitely true. Come on, Ray, you can't just sit down. We're going for a walk with Nile. He's just following you around, Mark. He's back up again. Leave Nile alone. You went and worked at this restaurant, very smart restaurant,

likes of sort of Ronan Keating and Rye Carey. Yeah, it was all Michelin Star restaurant actually. And it was... Yeah, just mad. I actually loved it because it went in and it was full of French, big angry men with knives and people running... Like, it was just mental. Like, you know, for a 17-18-year-old to walk into that

was just like... I loved it. It was just peeling potatoes and garlic. and just watching this madness. Like they're all screaming on each other and hot, you know, pots and just really interesting world. And looking back, do you think the high-adrenalised nature of a kitchen was something you were instinctively drawn to?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, yeah, there was just action everywhere and shouting and then, yeah, you can have a few drinks after work and there's camaraderie and yeah it was good. I mean, it's a horrible place to work actually. Like, after a few years I realized because, I mean, I don't know if any of you guys have worked in hospitality, but oh my God, at high end it's like so,

it's like if you've watched any of Gordon Ramsey's early stuff for, you know, it was like that. It was really like macho, toxic. It's 15, 16 R days. on your feet hot, like really bad, like lifestyle, no lifestyle. You'd kind of had already kind of experimented,

started experimenting with alcohol and drinking, had you? Yeah. When you were younger? Yeah, but I think everybody was kind of drinking. You know, at that age where you're just, I think I probably was already an alcoholic, but that didn't even register.

You know, like you would be drinking five, six nights a week. And you think, oh, I'm just young? Yeah, I'm just young. Everybody's doing it. And they are to a certain extent. You know, my friends were in college and the chefs were drinking. So it really didn't seem much out of the ordinary. But I feel like working as a chef really intensified,

it kind of crystallized your alcoholism in a way, do you think? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because it is stressful. And then if anybody listening has worked in a kitchen or hospitality, like, I mean, the first thing everybody does is you sit down for a drink, you know, a glass of wine or wherever you are a bar. or you'll have a drink as the team together. So it's the perfect environment really for anybody who drinks.

You left this job, didn't you? Yeah, well, I did a few those sort of high-end jobs, yeah. I'll tell you my favourite job that you ever did. Yeah. You worked for one of the owners of Microsoft. Yeah, Microsoft. Paul Allen. Yeah, I was a private chef, which is for like really rich people.

Actually, I was a yacht, was it? Yeah, yeah. What was that like? Did you meet loads of celebrities? Yeah, yeah. Like it's nearly easier to say who it didn't meet on that yacht than, yeah. Okay, miss a few. Come on, no.

Well, you'd go to, like, Cannes Film Festival and it would just be like... Weirdly, the one I was most starstruck, this is ridiculous, is like there was all like Mariah Carey and Brad Pitt and Angelina Jones, like those type of A-lister's. But it was at the time of Ali G. Do you remember? Like, Sasha Barricone. And, like, it had just come out, like, 99 or whatever the year was.

And we all found it hilarious at that time. And he walked on, Sasha Barrett Cohen. And I was like, oh my God. Like that was the one that got me. I don't know why. And didn't he ask you to, you'd have to cook all the dishes before. So instead of a menu, what would happen? You'd cook them all and then present him and he'd choose the cooked dishes.

Yeah, you'd make him like he had about 12 favorite dishes. I can remember some of them there was like a pasta with white truffalo. sauce, there was like burgers, lobster, and sushi, and he'd come down and just take a bit of it. It was like a buffet for one person, like a one-person buffet with everything on it. And he might not even eat anything, might eat a bit. It's just such an obscene amount of money that he wouldn't even, you can't even begin to understand how much money those guys have. And there was like Roman Abramovich, all those sort of... He seems nice. great guy

you'd go down to the down and have a coffee with him every day yeah and are you drinking on the yacht actually the yachts were good because you're working some of them yeah some of them ban drinking when you're like

got clients on and you're I've seen below deck I know oh is that people tell me about that yeah some of them ban drinking or if you're doing it across the Atlantic like you're absolutely not allowed to drink so I used to love that because you wouldn't even be able to

to drink but others yeah I would drink depending which ones I was on. You had various other careers you were hugely successful interestingly I noticed at whatever you decided to do so you set up this company was it called simply Zestia it's like a marketing agency so we just did I mean it was just Facebook and social media but it was like 2007 so you were early adopter yeah very early adopter because it was on the yachts I'd load to I must have just discovered it, you know, because I had so much time to kill. And I taught myself social media.

And then, yeah, just started a brand, a company. Like, we're basically like a marketing agency teaching big banks and big mobile companies and stuff like that, how to use. And you sold it for a lot of money. Yeah, it was like, it's never as much as it sounds because there's like investors and taxes and legal fees and all that. But I think I got like three or four hundred. for it when I was like I can't remember, 28 or something like that. I mean it's definitely a lot of money

but it wasn't, it's not like retire forever money and enough to go drinking for a few months. Well you then got into there was another company that you set up which was a kind of almost like a tourism blogging site about Dublin

which you again sold. Yes. And then at this point, if you're comfortable with me saying this, I feel like your addictions is spiraling a bit. Yeah, yeah, big time. Big time. They always were, but I'd have sort of, during those times I was a functioning, like I remember having gin and tonics to settle my nerves before go to meetings and, you know, boozy lunches and benders and all that sort of stuff. But, and then I'd go like so bad that I'd take three months off or, you know, I'd have a chat to myself

and like, like, they were bad benders. Yeah, it was viral, 100%. There was, like, just, she's nearly forgot. He's so quiet. He's brilliant. Look at his face. He looks quite wise, don't you think?

Very wise. Can you show, Niall? He's like a little cloud. Do you want a belly rub? We can rub your belly in the go. Oh, do you love Nile? He's so kind. Isn't he?

Around this time was when you said you decided to go, was it quite random that decision to go to relocate to toilet? No, not really. I kept going every winter. Because I hate winters. I used to get depressed and stuff. So I'd go in December. I used to go for like three weeks.

Whatever holidays I could take like three weeks. And I would go for three weeks. And then one time I went for maybe five weeks or something like that. And I was like, Jesus, this is just a much better life. You know, like sunshine, healthy food. I just even being back in London like this where we're at now is idyllic like it's you know if every day was like this in the city and you're walking around in the park I love it but when you're in the like grey concrete and it's raining and cold and people are miserable

that's what I I just I don't like cities like that you know so no well it is you know as they say as well growing old in London is not for sissies you know because when you see those kind of outdoor cultures I know it's a clear show, my parents were so kind of the classic British school. I mean, it's wonderful in France. You know, the elderly are out on the streets playing in the south. It's true. But it's true.

There's much more of an outdoors culture, whereas you feel all these pensioners kind of trapped inside watching pointless, you know. I sat, I was in, I'm staying in Shoreditch and I was just, I had a pizza last night. I was sitting just watching people. I was like, five, six o'clock, like people coming home from work. And people were just like so, I was in my own little world, but they were like so focused. I could just tell. they were like, okay, I got to, like they were nearly angry, you know, like just all like speed walking home. And like, I was like, what, you know, what's all the, everybody's just rushing home to pay their bills or, you know, there has to be more than life.

I was wondering that, you must feel like that a bit now when you come back here, that you've kind of rejected a lot of the stuff that is very prized here, status, money. Big time. you know? Possessions. Yeah, big time. I feel like an outsider now, definitely, yeah. Yeah, no, like, attraction. I mean, I did enjoy, I had a full English breakfast.

That was amazing. There's, like, little things that you can't get in Thailand that, you know, it's like, ooh, this is there. But there's nothing else I've missed, no. Nothing. So interesting, I love that, that you're just so much more aware of it with that perspective that you can come back.

And even watching something, like, as you say, some exchange between people, they don't realize they're just operating at a totally different temperature. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you notice it in London quite a lot because it's quite a professional city. Or, you know, like young people are trying to make it, you know, like the same as New York or somewhere. They're really trying to make their careers.

And I was just looking at them thinking, like, geez, that was me one day. Or, you know, like, you're trying to, you say, I would be working in advertising and I'd be like, God, this is the most important thing in the history of the world. You're doing a Facebook page for a mobile operator. not a big deal like but you're taking yourself so seriously in a meeting but yeah you went over to tyrant with a partner yes sarah when i went there first uh but it was because it had always been my sort of dream for four or five years and then got with her just before i sold the company and then

so she tagged along um because i just loved the food over there the people And we should say it wasn't just you that went over there because, and your partner, you had welcomed a dog finally into your life. Yes, Snoop. Tell me where you met Snoop.

He was in a rescue in Dublin. I bought a house, my first house and I think it was 32 or something and then moved in the first day. I think before I even got any furniture, I was like, okay, I'm going to get a dog because I'd been waiting for that moment my whole life. So I went and got Snoop and yeah he was brilliant. So then yeah he came to

Thailand which was we send dogs all over the world now but that first time taking a dog on a plane and it was like the most nerve-wracking thing. Oh it's horrible. How does he go then? Does he have to go in the hole in the hole? Put him in these big boxes and they kind of like staple it up and yeah and I was like oh that's a horrible feeling but he just was in it 16 hours and then he just strolled out, walked over and had a pease if he'd just like, you know, gotten off, you know, like being asleep for an hour. It didn't bother him, in general, it doesn't bother

them in the slightest of the dogs. And it just, you'd form such a bond with him, presumably by this point, that the idea of having him rehomed or giving him to a friend, that just wouldn't have been... Not an option, no, I was so... Yeah, because he'd been with me through depression and alcoholism and...

No, he was part of my life, yeah, he was coming with me. And so you went over there. Did you know what you were going to do? Sort of sit on the beach and literally. I had a bit of savings for a few years, maybe three or four years. I could have done nothing. And no, I didn't really have much of a plan. I was thinking maybe a bit of consultant or something. I was like, oh, I know about the internet.

I can sort of maybe do some online work or... And no plans to save dogs. No, no, no, no, definitely not. not in a million years now. We should acknowledge, because you write so honestly about this and all that, I feel like when you went to Thailand, obviously that was when your drinking almost killed you, didn't it?

It did, yeah. I nearly drank myself to death. I mean, I don't mind saying that. I think I did want to die because I'd never be brave enough to commit suicide. I don't know. It's a weird thing, but I couldn't get like a gun

or just hang yourself. or something like that but I was just like if I just keep drinking enough I'll die you know like that was I keep taking Valium keep drinking I know it nearly happens because I ended up in ICU so I was drinking three bottles of wine at a time and like four Valiums and then some whiskey which like I'm not that big I mean three bottles of wine is but your tolerance builds up and I was like falling down smashing my face face and yeah I would love to have just at that stage in my life I would love to have drank so much that I didn't wake up that was the goal every day and do you think can

you make the connection now with why you perhaps were sort of punishing yourself or felt valueless I suppose yeah I think it was it was a combination of things it was like just broken up with Sarah so breakups are hard in general Then I it was COVID which you know I think everybody went Half mental during COVID then I was in another country so nobody to tell me to stop and then I'd not no purpose in life because it's sold the business and I was just like I always need to be busy so It's just all those things came together and then living in Thailand you could just I'd wake up with the worst hangover in the world and then I could just walk over and have another beer so it just spiraled from there you had this rock-bottom moment as you say you woke up in the ICU

this Christmas day which was even more poignant now or around Christmas time wasn't it? A couple of days after Christmas it was like the 30th it was like I could hear fireworks and stuff outside yeah I woke up there and it was like oh it was grim

it was like the hospital was nice and everything because I had insurance but it was like just needles I was like what's the word not detoxing but like tremor what's that like delirium tremors is that alcohol

like whatever DTs yeah yeah yeah and they like I was just like please bring me something to catch she had this needle that she'd come in with the nurse little squirrel and they would come in with a needle

and like that calmed me down but then I was like 10 minutes later I'd be like where's the needle but get the needle back in here because I was literally thought my skin was gonna like I don't know

burn off or I was just like Oh, horrible. So that went on for three or four days. But it was in there that I said to myself, I was like, right, this is, you're in Thailand, you've nearly killed yourself, your family, everybody's, you know, worried about you. You can't get any worse than this. This is rock bottom. It really, you know, literally is.

You could kind of see myself from, I was like, that's it. If I can somehow make it through. the next day or two and get better. I'm like, I'm done with everything. I don't know what happened. I just flipped in my head and I haven't touched anything since. That's amazing.

And how long has it been? Like four and a half years. Wow. But it's not even, it's not even in doubt. Like I just, I don't know, I don't know why. It just, I think, yeah, I was like, about to die and I was just thinking, I was like, what have you done with your life?

Like, nothing. Nobody, like, you'll be dead two years. Like obviously my mom and dad will miss me, a couple of friends. But I was like, what, like, what was that? Like, there was nobody will miss you, you know? Like, you'll be very quickly forgotten. So I was like, okay, if I make it out, I'm going to do something meaningful. That was what was, that wasn't on the first day.

And the first day I was like just somehow stay alive, you know. But then as the days passed, I was like, okay, this is it. And then, as fate would have it, He'd encountered a little dog called Lucky, was the first dog you met. Yeah. Who you saw, was it by the roadside? Yeah, just by the sort of jungly road. Yeah.

I mean, that was, I actually, it took me about six or eight months to get better. Really? Yeah, I couldn't, like, if you sort of read my book or followed me online, you'd think it was, you know, two days after getting out of hospital. But in reality, I got out of hospital and I was, like, a mess. You'd been poisoning your body for, you know. Even physically, it actually took about two or three months. Like, the first week I couldn't barely walk, to be honest. Like, literally couldn't walk.

Exhausted. But then mentally, I was just all over the place. So, yeah, I think it was about six months afterwards. I spotted Lucky. And I just fed her. I'd always fed the dogs and I was drunk and stuff, but I just fed her. And then I went home and felt, and then I was like,

she's going to be, like, looking for food tomorrow. So I went back and she was waiting for me. And then that was the start. That was literally the start. Then it was like I fed her a couple of friends just down the road. Do you think word spread amongst the dog community? There's this really weird Irishman in recovery. 100%.

Who's a complete schmuck and he will turn up with loads of food. Absolutely. And it still does. They're still on the... So yeah, I started that and it was so easy because I just... You know, I bought a decent, like what, a 10KG bag, let's say. And so I'd give her a little bit. And then I just found a few more dogs.

and emptied it. So then I was like just buying a 10-KG and then I bought like a 20-KG and then it was like a 30. So it just completely organically like that. And then what it did was it was like I felt amazing by doing it because it was the first time that I was

reliable, you know? Because when you're an alcoholic, you make every excuse, you let everybody down. Maybe not, like you're not nasty necessarily but you're selfish. You're just after the next drink. You just don't.

Like, you know, if I was an alcoholic doing this podcast today, I'd be like, I might have been 20 minutes late. You might not have turned up. Oh, I've put my back out of, you know, some fantastic excuse, COVID. You've got every excuse under the sun. So turning up for the dogs just felt good for the first time I was like reliable. And that idea, Nile, but. someone needed you and apologise if this is really called psychology but I get the sense that you know when you've been abandoned even if it's through no fault with the parent it can sometimes

happen through death you know you lose a parent or they and I wonder if there's a sense of abandonment and isolation and you just get this idea in your head that nobody really needs you you're not needed yeah you're not wanted and then when you have these animals that so Oh no, you make a difference in my life, I need you. Yeah. That's quite powerful maybe. Yeah, definitely. And then also even I'd say, they're not that complicated dogs.

You know, like they just want the nice food and the company. You know, they're not, it's not like managing a relationship with somebody or, I mean, it is a relationship. But it's different. You know, if you give them food and a bit of love, like, that's, they're very, they're very loyal. I'll tell you not. What I love, because I live with Ray. Yeah. And I think people, I'm trying to kind of like, people, I think they're.

There is that trope of all the woman who can't have a relationship so she has the dog instead. Like it's a consolation prize. Do you know what I mean? And I sort of think, but I always say to people, oh, what I like is, you see, the great thing about Ray is that what he never does is he never, if I never say, are you okay and he never says, yeah, I'm just really annoyed about something you watched in in 1998. Because dogs move on.

Yeah. They don't know how but grudges. He's not down the pub coming home late. He's not watching football while you're trying to watch your movie. You can get him mutants. That's the best. If I could do that to a man, it would be fine. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog.

If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.