Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Nick Knowles (Part Two)

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

In part two of Emily and Ray’s walk with Nick Knowles, Nick takes us behind the scenes of DIY SOS and explains just how much work, care and love goes into creating the transformations we see on screen.He talks about the people and communities at the heart of the programme, why the show has remained so important to him after 26 years, and what it’s like being there when months of planning and hard graft finally come together.Nick also opens up about the less straightforward side of being a familiar face, from dealing with press attention to the strange ways fame can affect your everyday life.If you haven’t already, catch up on part one of Emily’s walk with Nick. And you can see the current series of DIY SOS on Tuesdays at 8pm on BBC One.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Part 2 of Walking the Dog with Nick Knowles. You can catch Nick on the current BBC series of DIYSOS and do remember to give Walking the Dog a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Nick and Ray Ray. Well you've been doing the show as you say, was it 1999? No.

No. No. And you were sort of becoming well known already. You were pretty established and well known as a presenter. But I feel that show obviously became so huge. huge and what I'm interested in is the show became huge but if you're comfortable with me saying this I felt that actually you I felt it was a difficult time in some ways for you because that I think of that period of the naughties Nick and I think it was really toxic in

terms of how I suppose celebrities were treated and how their lives were covered do you know what I mean there was this constant this introduction of this almost surveillance all the timer it's like Heat Magazine, Spotted, Paparazzi. And I felt your rise to fame coincided a bit with that. Yeah, there is a lot. I mean, there is a lot that you have to think of about that. I'm not really a show busy person who goes out and does a lot of show busy. I mean, I did do a bit more in the... But why was there so much fixation on you? I felt there was a lot of focus on you all the time. Because I didn't want to do articles in the press and I didn't want to do play that game. And so, and I did a program that was really lovely to people. And I think it's always

nice if you can find out that somebody that you think is quite nice isn't quite nice really. So I think that was the game with the press the whole time. Yeah. And I've tried to be the best person I can and you don't always get everything right, that's for sure. But also in the end when people say, it's really tough as, like you get people saying, I can't go out to dinner without there being photographers around. Well, there are probably about 12 restaurants in London that you go to where there will be photographers.

If you go out for dinner in Winchester, there's every chance you're on. not going to get photographed. So a lot of people talking about how difficult their lives are when they weren't that difficult. Also, I come from a councilite in West London. I'm, this is not coal mining for a living. This is not working on a deep sea Atlantic trawler for a living. This is not even doing, you know, double shifts on a roof in the winter, tiling a roof. So it's a very good way to make a living. It's a very comfortable way to living with the possibility to make a lot of money if you'd work hard and do it well. So, so were you able to brush criticism. Do you find that easy or does it ever personally get to you?

No, I find it more difficult when it's about people I care about. Right. So if people I care about, presenters I know or when my wife came in for criticism, then I'm very, very protective of her and I will speak out in the press. If it's about me, I won't. And part of the reason for that is if somebody comes up with a story about you, the best way to extend it is to comment on it. The best way to let it peter out is not to say anything at all.

So you have to, sometimes it's better just to bite your tongue on, as I say, and reassure yourself that you are making a good living. You're able to look after your family. The finances are good if you work hard. It's all about being master of your own parameters. You're only really constrained by the parameters you put on yourself. And I chose to be in television. Now, it's harder for my family who didn't choose to be in television when they get sort of friendly fire off of that.

But I chose to be on television. And with it comes a lot of things. There are some really lovely things. I love my rugby and I've got to go to rugby internationals and meet some of my heroes who have become friends now. That's a really lovely thing that other people don't get to get. I travel to 23 countries in 14 months where the schedule was really punishing.

but also I got to go to 23 countries in 14 months. I got to see the world. I got to do amazing things. I've gone skiing with the Prime Minister of New Zealand even though I can't ski. I've done ridiculous things. I mean, that's another classic Nick Null. That's up there with I used to own chinchillas.

It's classic Nick Niles. I'm loving this. I had an idea. Somebody asked me to do a travel series and I try to make sure that everything I do is slightly different to everything else that's been done. So I thought, if you go to New York for a weekend, you'll have a great weekend

because New York's a great city to go to for a weekend. If I go to New York for a weekend and I know somebody who lives and works in New York, I'll have a much better weekend because they know everywhere to go. So I said, well, this series, I'm going to have a buddy in every place I go. Well, it turned out the Prime Minister of New Zealand

knew a friend of mine. So when they said, will you do New Zealand? I said, hang on a second. I rang them and I asked them to ring Helen Clark, and she said, yes, I'll be his buddy. So when I arrived in New Zealand, she set the presidential car to the airport to pick me up, and I walked in.

She said, oh Nick, how are the kids? I was like, great, thanks very. How's Peter? How's Peter? That's the husband. Then I said to, she says, so you come to New Zealand? I was like, yes, is it like Jersey? And she said, what do you mean? I was like, pretty but boring.

She said, why do you think New Zealand's boring? I said, well, you invented jumping off a bridges on an elastic band? Is it because there's nothing else to do? She said, that's it. This interview's finished. I'll meet me three days down in South Ireland near Queenstown, up of the mountains where I'm opening a ski lift and we'll do the interview on skis.

Well, lovely, visually, I don't ski. So I had to spend the morning trying to learn a ski so that I get interviewed to Prime Minister of New Zealand in the afternoon own skis. I'd have paid money to watch that. Well, we started and I was moving down the hill slowly

and drifting away from it. I said, can you keep with me, please? And she said, why don't you keep with me? And I said, because I only know how to slow plow and in one direction. So she said, I think we've stopped doing this. We'll go and ride skis do the interview there.

So that's what we did. But, you know, when you look back at it all, you know, working with Attenborough doing films for Attenborough on orangutans in Borneo, doing, working with Prince William and Prince Harry, building a street for veterans up in Manchester, building at Grenfell, with all the building things that I've done, all the travel shows that I've done,

writing a movie, writing seven history dramas of the BBC. All of these things are ridiculous things that shouldn't have happened, and they're all amazing. So you've got to level up, you've got to put in it on your scales. There are tough bits about doing what I do, versus the amazing bits. And the amazing bits far outweigh any tough bits that come via press or anything else.

I was watching you on YouTube. You did The Where There's a Will podcast with Mel Gedroich. And there was something I loved a moment on that because she admitted something to you at the beginning. And she said, Nick, I did something not very nice to you once. Oh, yeah. And you said, what do you mean? And she said that she'd once been asked by the Radio Times,

you know it was one of those sort of slightly binary questionnaires and she wasn't even thinking it was who's your worst person on TV who's your best and when they asked her the worst she said you and she'd been felt terrible about this and I thought it was quite a nice honest moment her saying that to you because it's sort of proving the point of what you've said just now yeah it's meaningless really I mean she doesn't really mean it she didn't know me you know when I released my album and I asked Liam Gallagher, what he thought of my album and he said it sounds like he's having a stroke.

But you could either be like, oh my God, it was really terrible. What do you want to mean? Or just go, that's really funny actually. So neither of those things, I love you, I hate you, within the media work circus, if it's somebody that you know and you love and you care about, then it matters a bit and you need to start thinking about it. with others. My whole career has been full of people saying, I mean, it starts with the commissioners of the programs you do. When you're trying to be a TV presenter and trying to make your way and get opportunities, he's too young, he's too laddish.

It's interesting, I came out of news and into like factual entertainment and then other entertainment that came up. Then like, no, he's too newsy. And after you've been doing quiz shows for a while, and a factual program comes up, no, no, he's far too light entertainment. I was a journalist for 10 years. You're only what the last, and somebody, somebody, I can't remember where we were about six months ago. And I came out and somebody went, oh my God, it's new miles as I, as I walked in. And my wife said, that's really, as we walked away, she said, that's just really weird.

I said, well, to be fair, there's not enough of that going on at home. For the next three months, her and her kids were like every time they walked in. Oh, my God. It's weird. It became this hilarious thing that they did it all the time. So don't, you know, don't ask for what you don't really want. It's not, it's, you, you, you. In order to do this job, you have to have a skin like a rhinoceros.

And luckily, I am. And I don't know if that's part of the whole me, my magpie brain thing that we've decided is something else. I have the ability to walk through that. My friends will say to me when we're out places and I go, how do you put up with that? How do you put up with? Funniest one ever. This is a gods honest truth.

Funniest story ever. I'm filming by a river which you just paused over what looks like a river is actually part of the lake here. And the camera must take a thing and I'm doing a piece of camera. A guy walks up. I'd say probably up a middle class. He's wearing a sweater tied around his shoulders. I'm getting the vibe. And a Labrador.

All right. So he stands there and watches me for a little while. Eventually the cameraman takes the camera down. He kind of gets that we've finished. And I sort of wander over to say hello. And he says, hello, you're that bloke of the telly. I said, yeah, he said, you're Nick, Nick. I said, don't tell me.

You're Nick Nolsey. I went, yeah, close enough. Nick Nolsey? Yeah, he went, yeah. He said, oh. He said, you know, I can't bear you on television. And my wife can't bear you either. Every time you come on, we have to turn over onto a different channel.

And I said to him, well, you can't please all the people all the time. He said, no, I don't suppose you can, really. Anyway, really lovely to meet you, shook my hand. And off he walked. And my cameraman looked at me and went, what the fuck? And I was like, he's just talking about me like a soap powder. It's like, I am a thing. I'm a product on TV.

He doesn't want in his living room, but he does want somebody else in his living room. But that's so interesting because it is dehumanising to a degree, isn't it? Not for me. I don't know him from Adam. He just doesn't like the way I broadcast. That's... So even when, with the music, as you say, it was kind of a double-edged sword because you released it, and as you were really honest about that, you had people being very critical, taking the piss, all this kind of stuff. And you said at the time, well, it kind of battered me. It did. it because it was such a private thing that my brother and I had always done and I

didn't want to make it public yeah it was just something I did like if my brother was playing at an event somewhere near where I was working I'd turn up and plug a guitar in at the back and people would sit there sort of staring at me going doesn't that look like that blow for the TV but it was my brother's thing and he was the one out front and I loved that and playing along with him it's been a thing we've done all that family parties yeah my birthday party to get the guitars out everybody has a sing song amazing and then I was asked if I wanted to make an album and I was like I said no at first, which was interesting because the guy at the ANR went, what do you mean no?

He said, I hear you like to make an album. I was like, no. What do you mean no? I don't want to make an album. He said, I swear to God, I've been in his business 40 years and never offered anybody an album and they said no. It's not my thing. So I went to ask my brother and he went, are you mad? Do the album.

Just do the album. So I said, all right, for enough. But exactly what happened, happened is that I then had to take it very seriously and it was something I loved. became something I put in front of people and I got really battered for it. But again, rather than being someone who goes, I'm really upset about that and this really hurt me, I then tried to fathom why there had been such a reaction. And I came to the conclusion that music is so important to, and tied up with our psyche and our well-being that people will say, for example, people say, I love UB40, but this modern rap's rubbish. Well, it's not rubbish, is it?

People love rap or people go, I love... You just don't personally like it? reggae but like you know this pop music is or I love reggae but every metal is just well it's not is it because there are hundreds of thousands of people buying albums I remember like um Elliot the example where I got chatting to him got to know very well and then one night he was in Australia one night somebody was going uh uh example stuff is is is the word they use and I said well it plainly isn't is it because he sold albums well it's easy to do that kind of music I thought if it's that easy start writing songs, get yourself a recording contract,

get seven platinum albums or whatever it is that you can do, and then you can say that you don't think his music's any good. It's what I'm allowed to say it's rubbish if I want. And actually, he is allowed to say it's rubbish at this one, but it plainly isn't. So there's some me being defensive about somebody else, but I wouldn't have got into that argument over my own stuff. And when you went on I'm a celeb, it was interesting that,

because I think Chris Moyles, obviously, whilst you're in the jungle, you didn't even know about this, but he's sort of campaigning to make. It was every kind of people, I think it was at the time, to make it number one and all this kind of stuff. And then you discover, I think, via your son when you took a phone call or something or a letter was sent to you.

And it was like, this is number one. What I think is interesting about that is you can have two responses. And I think what was interesting to me is that you got it and you went with it and you were good-humoured about it. Do you know what I mean? Because it was plainly not going to get to number one

its own. So someone obviously has done it. as a bit of fun and Moylesey, I know Milesy would enough to know why you did it. And actually, Vern, the presenter, Vernon, Vernon Kaye, yeah. Went on the radio and said how terrible it was, which actually you pretty much got it to number one. So I thank Vernon for that since. But it was just obviously it was a bit of fun.

What was interesting there was I reacted to it by going, yeah, it's obviously a bit of fun and it's hilarious and that's fantastic. And they're all like going out, it's amazing. It's not really amazing. It's just funny. It's funny, but it's not a big deal. And then we had this thing where we went to the pub. There was one thing where we won a chance to go to the pub. And they sat there and I produced a guitar. Well, I was in there with, from the Vamps. I remember James?

Yeah, James from the Vamps. He was a great guitarist. And he's playing a few things. And then they said, give Nick the guitar. And he's like, do you want the guitar? I was like, I don't want the guitar. He can play his hit number one single. I was like, no, honestly, I don't want to.

James is, you're all having a sing song. It's great. Just play the guitar. So I play guitar. So I play simply red or some song. I can't remember it was. And they went, no, no, play the number. I don't want to play the number one song because it looks like I'm trying to promote the number one song. And James and the others went, oh, Nick, just do what they tell you and then they'll leave us alone. Yeah. So I played it. And then of course when the program went out, it was like Nick couldn't wait to grab the guitar of James to play. Of course. It's single. It's like I should have stuck with no. But they, um. It's almost like they had a

narrative for you. Oh yeah, obviously. They wanted me to act like it was something I took seriously. Well, it's part of the idea that it becomes funny if you're not self-aware. And if you are self-aware about it and you're saying, for example, I know that Chris Moyles is doing this and there's a sort of joke behind it. It's not like I'm under the delusion that people are buying this, you know, thinking it's dismissed or something.

I don't, I understand what's going on here. It makes it 10% less funnier from their point of view, I think. Like we need you. But also the whole thing is trying to sell up. I'm celebrities. It's about taking people who are full of their own importance. And then having a laugh at them as they undermine themselves and fall apart and that, all of that, that sort of pretense. So the trouble is if you go in there and you're not peacocking.

Yeah, yeah. It kind of takes the edge of it for them. They didn't, they weren't very fond of me at all. Yeah, but the Red Speedos were good. And also. That was literally just, you know, there's a real reason why that happened. They were auctioned the Red Speedos. and worked very well for a young lad

who needed an operation in America as it. When I went in there, I made the mistake of wear it taking white underpants. Now, the only reason that's a problem is because those trousers, those red trousers they wear, aren't red. They're actually beige and they dye them red for the jungle. So when they get wet, they bleed red dye. Why do they make them red, I wonder, just stands out on camera more. It's just their thing and they plainly don't buy red ones.

They buy brown ones and have them died. So the next net result was that my white underwear was streaked with red. Looked like I had some kind of groinal incident. So I couldn't wear them anymore. And I got down to wearing just this pair of budgie smugglers I'd taken in as a backup. And then one day, we had to go and get water or something. And I was like, literally everyone's out of energy. So I just pulled my boots on and walked down there with a budgie smugglers on.

And it was one of the best looks since Pamela Anderson with the Baywatch swimsuit and the Ugs was Nick Noles with the boots and the red budgey smugglers. But then when I came out, the newspapers were like, we wouldn't do an interview with, will you put the red budgey smugglers on? I'm like, no. Absolutely not. Hello, I'm from The Times. Can you put the red bungee smugglers? No, I'm not putting a money. Go on, just put them on it.

No, I don't want to put the red budge smugglers on. I'm not, I don't think I look like an adonis in a pair of red budgey smugglers. So that I managed, but the music was something that I didn't manage. So, yeah, no, I put the, so I, after the album, I didn't pick up a guitar for something like four or five years afterwards. Oh, Nick, that's a shame, though. Well, it was, but then many, many, many years. years ago I love my rugby and I was offered the chance to be a presenter of the rugby on TV about 20 years ago 25 years ago yeah and I chose not to because I didn't

want the thing that I go to outside of work to become work and therefore take the joy out of it and I made that mistake with the music it sort of took the joy out of it for me so that's really interesting that isn't it I remember a friend of my dad I always say never start a restaurant if you love food and go into restaurants don't start a restaurant because it will kill the joy in it I think there's a Because that's so true. I remember a friend of my dad said, but I was choosing, I was going to university and I was choosing what degree I was going to do. And I said, I'm going to do English literature. He said, but you love reading. I said, what do you mean? He said, Emily, I love reading. That's why I did law.

He said it on and he was right. I did English and I didn't pick up a book for about four years off because it just associate it with work, Nick, don't you? You do. And actually reading is a massive joy. And you shouldn't break that. I was very lucky that my dad. I'm back on the on the hot reading halls now. Yeah, I read all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time. And it's how I got into archaeology and all kinds of other things as well. I mean, there's nothing this man doesn't do. I'm getting sick of it. You do everything. I have, I don't know if I mentioned, I have a like a magpie brain. I'm calling Katie off for this.

Nick, I want to talk before, I don't want you to go because you're so interesting. I can talk to you all day. That's a very kind of you. Thank you. But I do want to talk just a bit more about DIYSOS, because obviously I'm. I'm not the only person to love that show. It sort of took off in a way I think even you couldn't have imagined. Oh, absolutely. It's sort of got a place in everyone's hearts now. It's a fixture, you know.

It's a non-negotiable part of our viewing schedule. Well, let's see. I hope the BBC agree. Because contractually, each year we sit there whilst the programmes go and wonder whether we'll get another year out of it. Somebody said to me the other day, it must be wonderful to have the security of 26 years of BBC. Honestly, you have the security.

security of one series, if it does well, you get another series. If it doesn't do well, you're out, you're out on your ear. There's like, no, there's no work there. And my whole career has been like that. You have to do as well or better than the last series continuously through your career, or you fall off the tightrope. And that's how I, and that's how I see television, you're on a, you're on a big tightrope and somebody gives it a shake every now and again and people fall off. And I've been, and on, been hanging on, like, grim death for 26 years. Well, actually, longer than that, when you think of all the other stuff I did before. One of the things people always say when they talk to you about this show is obviously

the tears, big part of it. But it's an interesting thing, isn't it? Because what I actually notice in that show, you know, there are some extraordinary stories. I just watched the first episode in the new series. Oh, yeah, with Ray and Nell and Kai up in Glasgow. Which was the most, I mean, honestly, what an incredible kind of journey you went on with them. Yeah. And There was, what was incredible was that their, you know, that their mum had died. And she'd sort of had this dream of how the house was going to look. They'd moved in to try and make it the dream home and she'd come up with all the plans. And you realised that for them?

Yeah. Which was incredible. Yeah, no, really important because they were, I mean, it's only recent that they lost their mum, something like five or six months beforehand. Because the house was a building site, because the daughter who was in a wheelchair, couldn't yet to have a hair washed in a downstairs toilet sink and there was no kitchen to speak of because he was a builder but had to stop being a builder to take on both roles as mum and dad um so they hadn't had a chance to begin to process that bereavement um and you could see

it in all of them so we don't take away that but what we do is thanks to the generosity of the six hundred builders that turn up and all the people who supply all the stuff that we materials we need. We're able to give them a safe home and a safe garden that they can access where they can start to process that bereavement properly as a family and find their new normal, which is the expression we used earlier, wasn't it? And you always say, I think you particularly said in that episode, you know, your home is your sanctuary. Should be. It should feel like your sanctuary. Should be, yeah, where you can close the noise of the world out and just breathe and relax. And because it was her design, it was ideal for them to be able to process that bereavement in there.

And also to make sure that we built in references to her. She was a florist, so we built flower beds in and access into a weird shape on the flower bed so that Nell could get her wheelchair into the flower beds to be able to tend flowers and pick flowers herself. Little things like that make all the difference. References to coral, which was a favourite colour in the design of the building. And when you're filming it, Nick, do you, so for example, is there ever a seat of pants moment where you think, oh my God, I hope enough people to volunteer's turn up? Really? Yeah, I think people think we create false jeopardy and it annoys me because every now and again the director goes, there's not my jeopardy in this one.

I was like, you know what, just enjoy the fact there's not much jeopardy in this one. Because for once we're not tearing our hair out and I'm not on social media begging people. Is that what you find yourself doing often? We all do and ring around. We've got like, there's probably about. 100 people who have done multiple DOSS because they love it and they love what it does for them. Yeah. Who we can ring and say we're really in trouble, can you come and help us out and somebody will gather together a bunch of people and turn up.

So we've got some troops in the wings that might come and help us. But yeah, it's always a struggle. If you're doing eight months work in eight days, it's the first day we get 150 builders turn up. They're all looking at me narrow-eyed thinking we've come along to find out whether, how they cheat, because nobody can do that, even builders who've been doing it 30 years, it can't be done. And then they're also wondering, are you a bunch of, are you the people that you appear on television, or are you not really nice TV people and you only appear that way on TV? Yeah. So we spend all day with them, every day, working with them, and at the end of

the first day, there'll be a group of about six or seven builders, older builders, who've seen it all, stood at the front and I'll walk over to them. quite often have a faggone just staring at the building and I go, what are you thinking? And they'll go, it happens time and time again. They go, I was in there today and I don't know how that happened because it's just ridiculous. 150 people with a three-bedroom semi-detached.

And it's like just weeks of work done in one day. Well, you're in it. I know, I still don't know how it happened. So it's, you know, it's shocking from that type point of view. But then you see, there's layers to what happens. I don't want to be too evangelical about it, But the family that need it probably can't get it any other way for various different reasons, but they can't. Yeah.

The builders who turn up and do the job leave feeling amazing about themselves and about their skills and what they can do and realizing that if you can give time to somebody, it's the biggest gift you can give. If you can add skills to that, they'll feel better about doing that job than any other job. And the last thing we do before we finish the DOS, once we've done all the filming, is the whole team standby of a van. And we do a photograph with everybody there, all 600 people who take us to an half hour. And they're all hugging us and saying thanks for letting us be part of it. So they're getting something massive out of it. And then there's a final thing that happens is that the viewer at home who might, the ordinary everyday viewer like me, will think the world's a slightly better place because look, there's community, there's people who will help and this country is full of amazing people everywhere. And then finally the people who might be in a similar position going through bereavement or going through loss of or illness or illness or or illness.

or whatever, who think they're alone in the world and nobody cares, start to believe that people do care. That's a massive, massive thing. We get into the toughest areas in the country. We don't build in posh areas. We get into the toughest areas. We deal with difficulties that people don't talk about, like bereavement, suicide, illness. And we have conversation, and we talk about depression, anxiety. We quite often talk to the builders who come along about the depression anxiety, suicidal thoughts they think of. So for me, it's everything that the BBC should be. And it has to be funny too.

Because if it wasn't, that would be an hour of Simon Bates' our tune, which would like, you know, you've got to have light and shade. And so we try to make sure that there's laughs in amongst it. And emotion, like, you know, you talk about the emotion, it just comes from people being honest about the situation they're in. And there, but for the grace of God, go all of us. an illness, an accident, or whatever. I think it's also, it's interesting,

because I know people often interview you and you have had people say to you, well, hang on a second, shouldn't the government be doing more? Shouldn't the councils be doing more? And I know your response is often, well, look, you know, if someone's drowned me, I'm going to throw them a life bell. I'm not just going to say, oh, sorry,

the council need to come along with a lot more. Do we discuss who should throw the life bell or do you just do it? But do you know what I would say in addition to that, what I think, Nick, is that it's also about how the behaviour that models, I think, for us, in that when you see that, you know, we all know that sort of, you know, doing stuff for other people, giving all those sort of things actually makes you feel better. And I think it's great to be modelling that as, you know, those people are all turning up, they're getting nothing

out of it. They can't advertise their business because it's the BBC. So we know that. We know, well actually they're not getting paid and they're not there's no freebies going on here or backhanders and there's something rather lovely that you look at that and I start to say have more faith in human nature like I look at this and I think isn't it's amazing and I think isn't that great that they're doing that they must feel better they do and if that's the that's what you've thought then we've done it we've done the right thing yeah there it is an extraordinary thing that it remains an extraordinary thing something like 26 million pounds worth of buildings homes respite centres places with children with life limiting illnesses like Peterborough little miracles in Peterborough the yard in Scotland or surfability UK the only all

ability surf centre built down in near Swansea and Grenfell which was just incredible Grenfell the only thing that's been built at Grenfell the community centre we did six months worth of consultations and you were asked you know there was a woman who said and that's when I I know it's awful but I always when you lose it then I lose it because you're you don't actually lose it that much. We do on this series. Do you? Yeah, finally broke me this series.

I've tried really hard over the years to be professional. But this one got me. I mean, I don't know if you saw with Ray, when Ray was talking at the end that kind of like, like, I got choked up there, but later on in the series there are other ones. There's one in Preston where the lad had a very young lad 13, 14, had a terrible in brain injury through illness and was in hospital for three and a half years. was able to come home for two and a half of the years of that, but couldn't get home because of the state of the house. Mum was living with him in Manchester,

family house up in Preston, they couldn't. Local village were raising funds to try and change it, but it was way beyond anybody. We rebuilt that, and I say we, the 600 people that turned up, rebuilt that, and then on the last day, he came home by ambulance, and the 600 builders were lined in the road, and he was brought back for the first time in three and a half years.

And as he was put onto the ground, his mum came up and said, your home son, and that was like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm in bits now. That was amazing. Still gets me now, even talking about it. Oh, Nick. Well, I loved it.

There was a woman, and I can't remember which episode it was, but it was things in the last season. And I just remember there was a kind of silence, and you were sort of holding it together, and this woman turned around, and she said, thank you for listening. And I was just, and you lost it, and then I lost it. It was just, she just the simplicity of that.

She said, thank you, Nick, you listened to us. And it was about you'd understood what they needed. But that was true in Grenfell too. All they wanted was to someone to hear them. Yeah. The veterans up, and when we built that entire street up in Manchester, the veterans have been promised so many times and no one delivered. You have to keep your promises.

That's the other thing. That's where the pressure comes from and doing what we do. You know, I see a family who've had an avalanche of an avalanche of terrible luck and then an avalanche of nose from people to help them. And if I say yes, then we'd better be bloody sure that we turn up. And we can't get to six days in and say, look, we're going to give you about three quarters of a house because we just can't do it. So we'll work through the night. But also, Nick, I can imagine what you're like.

You don't take no for an answer. I mean, that's why I like it when they send Nick in and they slightly exploit you because they know. Like when they had something recently, it was like, oh, it was a community centre or something. And it said, we're going to have to get the sewer pipe through a neighbour's garden. And they're right, Nick, can you go and ask? Literally. Literally. But, you know, I would just...

Do you mind if I actually dig up your back garden, we need to run a sewer pipe through it? And she was like, yeah, right. I was like, let me explain to you again what we're going to do just before you say yes straight away. You're sure? And she went, oh, go on then. But you know what? Sending your best man. They're not stupid.

Right, let's take another. The last thing I'd say is that Chris, my plaster says to me, the thing about you, Nolsey, is that you can talk to the king and you can talk to a road sweeper. That's it. And you'll have a great conversation with both. You are. Because I talk to everybody the same. Do you know, Nick, I'm going to sum you up with the Roger Gippling poem, If? If you're going to do If, that's going to break me because that's my dad's favourite poem.

Well, that's what I think you are, is that line from if, which says, if you can walk with kings nor lose the common touch. Oh, thanks. Yeah, now's not the time to take a photo, real. Oh, Nick, I made you cry. Well, you made me cry. Yeah, because that was my dad's favourite poem. And he wanted me to live my life by all of those things that he tried to live his life by that.

and I've tried to live mine by that too. So, yeah, it's all about hitting the nail on the head. You're good at this, isn't you? I mean, that's how I praise indeed from Mr. What did that man call you? Nolsey. Nolzy, yeah. Nolzy, they all could be nalzy.

I think I like to get, oh, you look good in this light. This is good. Do I? Yeah, you do. That must be a very special light then. Oh, Nick. Do you put yourself down? No, no, but the thing is, I'm not a primped on TV.

I'm not groomed or primped. I look like a bag of smearance. People say, you look like you had a really big, you always looked like you had a really big night last night. And that's become my sort of USPs of us. But Nick, can I tell you? I want to say this in a nice way, by the way. Oh, come on, come on.

Thank you. It's the weirdest thing. People have come up, women will come up and ask for a photo. And I always say to Katie. Is that right? That's better. And she says, yeah, that's okay. And then, but then the woman will put like, sort of put their arms around me,

and then drape a leg over me. No, I know. I think it's so weird. And Katie would go, leg down. Leg down. But also I went, this and stood next to her. And a woman came up to me and said, oh, I really love to you. Could I have a photo wife with you?

And I said, is that all right? And Katie was said, yeah, that's okay. And as I turned back, she licked the side of my face. That's so weird. And like, what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you lick someone's face? That's just nuts. You wouldn't do that way.

Oh, yes, you would. Do you know what you were saying just now? I think that's interesting you're saying that people will say, this is your, you not me, that bag of spanners. but um that you do but look look I'm wrinkly I'm not bothered about wrinkles I do there's there's years of smoking and Jack Daniels that has gone into making this face I'm I've lived that I've ridden motor bikes I've been out in the sun I've gone across deserts I've fallen off of trucks in Africa I've done all kinds of weird stuff

you're my way essentially I just I've squeezed every talking about the expression living a life less ordinary I've squeezed every last drop of juice out of this this extraordinary great fruit of a world that we live in and if I killed over tomorrow I'd be I couldn't complain about any of it it's been amazing there've been huge challenges along the way but like you know for a sick for a kid off a council estate in West London who'd have thought it you know well I was I don't want to do the whole you know my father was a goat herd or I'm not going down that route you know it was um but you know just just go for everything

just go and do stuff. I was the shyest kid as well. Nearly? I was terrible. I had to read a lesson at my brother's wedding. So when he was, what did he have been, 21? And I'd have been 14. And I had to read a lesson at the wedding.

And I was shaking so badly. I had to hold onto the lectern because my knees were shaking so badly that I thought I was literally going to collapse at reading in front of a church of people. Roll on 25 years. And I'm doing Saturday night live in front of seven and a half million people. on BBC 1.

And I used to have this thing, they'd like talking by ear, you get the countdown. They go, 30 seconds on air. And at 30 seconds on air, I would go, what the hell am I doing here? How the hell did I end up here about it all right?

And then they go, and five, four, and in the five, in the ten seconds, I would put my worries into a box, visualize, and then put them in a box, put the box and put it to one side. And then at three seconds to go,

before we went live, I would say, this is what I do. And then I walk out. And I wouldn't, I couldn't tell you what I said for the first 30 seconds. I'm kind of on autopilot. And then I'd relax into it. And then from then on, good luck to the director keeping hold of me, because I'd go off and wander off and do all kinds of different things because I'd be enjoying myself.

And having people get frightened of life because things could go wrong. Well, actually, things going wrong is actually after the fun of live when the viewer gets to feel like they've seen something, some kind of real thing happen. It's almost as if you've got 26 years worth of DIYSOS, which has allowed you to think like that. Because things do, can I ask you a question about that show? Do you sometimes, I wonder if you get people contacting you with ridiculously like, oh, I just really am on a new extension or patio and like not getting the premise of it? Yeah, we get three, you know, we get maybe 300, 200, 200 applications a month for people who need work doing. And in those will be, I've just bought a house in Boulogne and I'd like you to come over and, you know,

there'll be ones like that. But there are also people who don't think, got an interesting one from somebody in Primrose Hill and the husband had had a terrible accident and she was upset that the house wasn't appropriate and she wanted the builders wanted us to come and change it all round for her and because of his injury was awful for him and the children were going off to university I don't think I can afford to send them off the universe I'm worried we can't afford that because of everything that's happened and it's fine and then I said to him well how much is your house worth and why is that relevant

well because it is kind of relevant because if you're in a three and a half million pound house Sell it by a two million pound house, pay for the changes that you can do, because you have the finances to do it. Because what you're actually asking me to do is ask people who live in council houses or on the edge of making a living to come and help you keep your three and a half million pound house. That's not okay. But that's our home. That's what I'm leaving the children. Yeah, you have an asset. But it is an asset.

The people are coming to help you don't have an asset. I'm not going to bring people to give their time and money to protect your asset. we've got so into our mindset now that our home is our asset that people are we going to move why are you moving well because we you know we can make a profit on this well yeah but aren't you happy where you are that's it yes but we can we can move up the the price with the housing chain what's that got to do with anything and it's when you hear people saying I'm broken they live in like a you know three million pound house yeah it's nonsense isn't it all we're saying it's not accessible money

and there are choices available to you there are choices available to it you know to to create more liquidity if that's what you need yeah but just people at well and then somebody said to me but yeah but they won't get the market value of that house if they sell it quickly you're talking about a terrible situation that's hit the family downsized buy a two million pound house somewhere and have a million pounds worth of renovations done i you could do that and still have half a million pounds left over to look after the kids and everybody else in the future it's like you've got to so the people that we help are people who have other choice. We investigate the bank accounts, we do everything.

Investigate that I'm not going to be writing in. I'm going to cancel the idea for Raymond's bespoke dog kennels. I really have my heart set on that, Nick. We've done that before in a family who had a dog, dogs and had a field outside where we've actually had a, we've built kennels for them, but we've also built dog showers in the in the annex because the kid, because we've built a lovely home and the kids have a tendency to take the dog jumping in the river and then straight in the front room. So we built a a little gated shower in the in the annex so that they could hose off the dog before he came in the house. Nick, who's the nicest person you've ever met in television?

Oh, Attenborough would have to be up there. Oh yeah, he's like, he's like, I mean, don't get me wrong, he's got a great sense of humour. He's got quite a naughty sense of humour. Oh, that's the Regents Park Theatre, by the way, in case you're wondering. That sounds like it's the show, whatever it is. What if they start playing every kind of... He's brilliant, but he's just, but he's wonderful. I went to, well, I did a thing on orangutans with him, for him, not for him personally, but for the show that he was doing, Green Earth.

And sat with him for a while at Kugans when they did the sort of live broadcast from there. I was within for about an hour, I suppose. And as we were sat there chatting away, how did I love, how did I see you, did boy? Come sit with me, come as well, how did you find the orangutans? And Lona, who did the Loner director. How did you find the orangutans? And how is she? She's managing her because she had a lot of problems from local tribes.

Yes, if you did a lot of them. Then somebody comes up and says, oh, Roberto, how fantastic to see you. And how are the Ethiopian wolves doing? Very good. Your daughter must be at university now, mustn't she said, Sarah. Yes, actually, she just started last year. How should you get on it?

In Nairobi? Yes, she went to Nairobi. And then the next person comes up, it's like, and the tree frogs down in South Africa. And Roberto, how is, and just literally knew everyone's name. You were all the kids' names, you were everything about the animal they were dealing with.

And I said to him, that's amazing. And he went, well, I have been to see them. I should know. It'd be just extraordinary. And then you do things like I said to him, I said to him, as a TV presenter, you are like the gold standard. He said, well, no, he said, we all do our own thing.

I was like, no. There's a shot where there is, you're talking about sea otters and how they sleep in kelp. So they sleep on their backs in kelp. And there's a shot of a sea otter. And then suddenly the shot widens out, and you're doing a piece of camera next to a, sleeping sea otter in Frogman's gear.

How many sea otters did you have to creep up on before you finally? He said, well there were one of two tricks we used, obviously. I say, but that kind of stuff, there's an opening to one of the Green Earth ones where it's, the camera is travelling while obviously on a cable, but through the treetops in the Amazon.

And he's doing the opening of the show and then suddenly as you're going in, you see this dot in the distance up on the top of a tree about 300 feet up. And he gets closer, and you realize it's him. They've hoisted him up into a tree. And this whole intro, It's not voiceover and then piece to camera and you get to him. It's one piece that he does on the entire run.

And it finally closes and finishes on the head and shoulders of him and it says, this is planet Earth or whatever it is, the green earth, whether it was. And if you go, that's like, that's amazing. That's gold standard TV presenting. Just technically, that's amazing. And then you load onto it. He was former head of BBC one and he was, you know, all the stuff that he's done over the years.

I used to see him at the rugby when he was a bit more mobile. He's such a renaissance. You know, my dad worked in the TV. My dad worked for the BBC production time. He was my dad's boss. How was he? So when I used to think, my dad used to do a show called Late Night Line Up years ago with Joan Bakewell.

It was like a late night arts show on BBC too. And I always heard this name as my dad's boss. And then I got older and I said, why is he doing like major programs? I always remember my dad said, oh, he's a Renaissance man. Like, there's nothing he can't do. Yeah, it's true. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

And he is fascinating from that point of view. But also, one of the interesting things is. ever mind him, you're a bit of a renaissance, man. Has that occurred to you though? Yeah, well, I did sue some stuff, as I say, on orangutans in Borneo, I did a couple of other things. But not just sarangetangs, we've got history, we've got music, we've got rugby. Yeah, but yes, and I'm always coming up with new format ideas to try and do things all the time. And I've been very lucky that I've had lots and lots of formats around the work that I've done. So that's work really.

No, you're not lucky, because I think you come up with these things. You say that strike me as someone who's constantly coming up with ideas. And sometimes when I'm listening to you, and I mean this in a very positive way, it's like I'm looking through the Discovery Channel. And I've gone on that channel and I've gone on this and I've gone on this. I'm literally two minutes on each channel. Do you know what I mean? We were at a meeting the other day talking about a new format and my wife was kicking me under the table to shut up. I'm obsessed with Katie. Oh, she's extraordinary.

Well, I'm kind of obsessed with you as well. And it's so nice to meet you because I've been a fan of your program for so long. and I kind of see meeting you, I can sort of see even more than ever why you're just so the perfect person to host it. Oh, thank you. And I think, because what it's to do with, you know, it looks doing a show like that

feels a bit like, oh, well, you know, you're prising the emotions, but it's actually the opposite is what you're doing. You're just listening. Yeah. And I think what you were saying earlier, you know, I know you were joking when you said, oh, I've got a face like bang, spanners,

I've got wrinkles, I've left. But I think what, You look like a real person. And what I mean by that is increasingly people don't look as real on TV. Do you know what I mean? No, I do know what you mean. I mean, I think if you turned up, Nick, I'm not saying you can never get any extensive work done. But if you turned up with veneers and a, do you know what I mean?

Suddenly like puffy filler face and stuff. And then you're talking to these people who've had these terrible things happen to them. I think it might, I don't know, maybe that's wrong with me to say that. No, I think you're right. I do think you're right. I think there's a, it's a, I think one of the things that's really interesting is when you watch the end of a DIYOS where all the builders are out there, and there are main and female builders and suppliers and everybody there, there is something about these huge, tattooed, bearded, manly men crying that just breaks everybody because like those kind of people don't cry. They don't, you know, historically they don't cry. And there's two things that's important about that. One is they should, especially at the moment with a number of suicides and things that are going on in the industry. It's okay to cry and we've got to get that message out there.

So if I'm bawling my eyes out, it's not the worst thing in the world for other men to see that, given that I am that sort of rugby playing, motorbike riding kind of person. The other thing is that it's just really important for people to realise that just because people put up a facade of being, you know, A big hairy-ass bloke who gets stuff done doesn't mean that they don't, they are underneath. They're not feeling everything that everybody else is. You're not an emotional island if you try to tell yourself that you are, or if you think people that don't cry are. It's all going on underneath.

Well, do you know what I think? I think your dad will be really proud of you. That's a very kind of you to say. That's very kind of you to say. I hope so. He used to ring up when I was doing TV. When he got ill, he was in at home for a while after he had his first stroke, and he used to watch TV.

and we had this thing called the duty log on the local news station that I was working on. And on it, people would ring in over the night and it was a complaints log. So they would put the complaints down on. It was sort of pre-social media. The BBC had one and it was like, I was really offended by that hat someone was wearing on, that's life or whatever. Exactly that. So the next morning in the newsroom, we get the duty log through, which was full of the complaints the night before about the things. And on there would be my dad saying, will you tell Nick to stop going, um, and are,

and stop using the word basically, which is just a filler word. instead of it. And I said, I'd remember, I'd go, Dad, why didn't you just ring me and tell me and he go, I don't want to bother you at work, son. It's like, well, you bother me at work in front of everybody, everybody's read that now. So I'll complain about you to everybody. Thanks, Dad. That's, uh, yeah. No, I like to think that he'd, um, that he'd like it. But I don't, I think a lot of people don't understand the sort of layers that are going on with it. It's, you know, I hope it, we need it at the moment when the whole world's throwing verbal rocks at each. other and there's so much confrontation going on in all kinds of different spheres of life. If there's something that just reassures you that the world's a slightly better place and that

there are more good people than bad in our communities, I think that's got to be a really, really important thing. And I think the BBC is the home for that at the moment and that's where it's been for a long time. And I think most, I think five, five BBC One controllers have said it's their secret weapon because it's just, it always gets an audience, it always reassures people it shows people from all communities in the toughest areas the BBC don't always get into you know there's all of that going on so yeah the long as long as they keep commissioning it will keep making it well they better or Raymond and I will have something to say about it Nick I have loved my walk with you have you enjoyed it today

very much I mean a it's a beautiful park B the sun shining which it shouldn't be at this time of year Raymond I thought was perfect company what I'm Raymond because he was so quiet Yeah. And finally, it's been a joy chatting to you on many different levels. So it's just been an easy chat, hasn't it? Nick, I've loved it. And we both cried once, which I love that, because it shows our humanity. Yeah. Or on the woods. Nick, thank you so much. Would Katie allow me to give you a brief hug? I'm sure she would.

Oh. Thank you very much. And keep following Katie, because I think what she's doing is really, really important. I'm very proud of her. Well, you say goodbye to Raymond. See, Raymond? Bye, Nick. Next time, just let people get a word in their choice. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog.

We'd love it if you subscribed. And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.