Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Nihal Arthanayake

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

Emily goes out for a stroll with radio presenter Nihal Arthanayake and meets his beautiful Staffie, Luna. Nihal talks to Emily about growing up in Essex with Sri Lankan parents, meeting his wife and knowing she was ‘the one’, handling tricky interview subjects on his BBC Radio 5 Live show and encouraging his daughter to play the drums. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, hello. What's that? Someone's called me from my agents. No, no, it's my agents. If it was something like, I mean, usually Obama calls at this time, but I don't usually pick up. No, Nahal, I wouldn't surprise me. I don't usually pick up.

He's bored now. So bored. Just rings up random people. This week on Walking the Dog, I went up to Manchester to go for a stroll with radio presenter and Human Wonder, Nahal Arthur Nyaka, and his beautiful staffy, Luna. I'm a really big fan of Nahar's afternoon show on BBC Radio 5 Live. He's one of those presenters who's comfortable talking to anyone about any subject.

And he's also got a genuine curiosity about the world, which I got to see in person when he started sparking up conversations with every dog walker we passed. Often brilliant interviewers are actually a bit less keen on opening up themselves, but Nahar was really honest about all errors of his life with me, what drove him to succeed, what it felt like. when he lost his dad. How he knew his wife was a keeper. She really is, by the way.

I met her. I love my day with Nahal and Luna, and I really hope you enjoy it too. He's even made me feel slightly less prejudice towards Spurs fans. Well, a little bit. Do rate, review and subscribe if you like this. And remember to catch Nahal

on BBC Radio 5 live from 1pm Mondays to Thursdays. Here's Nahal. Come on then. So where are we going to go, Nahar? I don't know, we'll just take a, this is a new build estate that's about two years old, so it's all a bit generic. If people remember Brookside, that show that was set up by Phil Rome, there you go, there's a patch on this, on the new tarmac, so I've got to have a sniff of that. It's very smart here. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's generic and some people would say just a bit cold.

Are we allowed to say where in England we are? We're in the northwest. We're near Manchester. Yes. I think some people guess. I always say Manchester. We're just south of Manchester. No, we don't want to do a kidnappers or burglars guide.

I always think. Also, as well, I think, you know, the times we live in, being on Five Live always has this element where, and on the show, kind of pushing the boundary slightly, so some people get annoyed. Now, one great thing about this is the badger habitat. So when they were building this estate, they couldn't build on this plot of land here

because there are a family of badgers that we've never seen. So maybe it's an urban myth. I've just seen this. There's a sign that says, Badger Habitat. It's like we're at a London Zoo. And I don't mean this horribly,

but it's like, sorry kids, the bears aren't here today. We're going to have to see the Badger Habitat. But there's a photo of a badger, which is helpful. And it says, this area is restricted space, please do not enter unless you've been authorized to do so. What, by the Badgers?

Yes. Yeah, you're all right, mate. No, oh, yeah. The badger bounces are there. No trainers, mate. I'm coming in with those like that. I think my beard might get me in because it's a similar colour.

Because you've got my stripes. Because I've got a badger beard. Some people call salt and pepper, but now I've seen that, maybe I am just a badger. And there's a kind of red stripe here on the floor, so they've obviously had a big night. That's why they're not out.

But that's heartening that property developers haven't been allowed to build over that, it really is. It's preserved. That's so good. No, no one's ever seen these badges. No, I haven't even formally introduced you. I'm going to do this.

I always do a sort of false beginning. Okay. I'm very excited because I adore this man. Spoiler alert. And I'm with the lovely Nahal, Arthaniaka. Yeah. Did I get it right? Arthur Nyaka.

Arthur Nica. There you go. I'm going to do it again. But I'm going to keep in that I got it wrong. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good.

I'm with Nahalthanaika. Perfect. Because I think you have to get the effort to make people's names right. Yeah. And I suspect people get your name. they mispronounce it, do they sometimes? Yeah, I discovered today actually that Jacob Rees-Mogg's sister is called

Azuniatta. Oh yes. And I just thought Azuniata Arthaniacca would be an amazing it would give kind of anyone who's presenting countdown an aneurysm in the amount of vowels and consonants in Azzanita Arthaniacca. Well, you'll show, I mean, you know,

a lot of people listening to this will be very familiar with you, but I know you best right now I've been listening to you for a long time because you're a bit of a big name in radio. You have been for a while, you've been a rapper. Yeah. I know, I want to talk to you about MC crazy, but we're going to talk to. I love that. I know, it's brilliant.

I've even seen you do rap battles and you did a brilliant take-down, which I love, of a man who was being kind of misogynistic in a vile way. Yeah. But yeah, you're a bit of a force to be reckoned with. And your show at the moment, I met you because I went on your Radio 5 show. Yes. And you were lovely. Amazing.

Oh, well, I really enjoyed doing it in a hall. And so, but I want to go back to the beginning. Yeah. Because you've had a really packed life. Yeah. And you're beginning in Harlow? Yeah. Well, Harlow is where I went to school.

But I grew up in a village called Royden, where my mum still is. famous for two things, one of which you'd have to go through lawyers probably to say. And also Ray Winston lives there. And I bumped into Ray Winston at the Brits a few years ago. I said, oh, hi, Ray. And he's like, oh, hello, mate. Hello, how are you doing all right?

And I went, yeah, you live in Royden, don't you? And he looked at me like, oh, weird, oh, stalker. And I said, no, no, no, because I grew up there. You know, my mum lives in that village. And he looks and he went, oh, we might as well be cousins. And he gave me a big hug, which is weird. Not really, Ray, but thanks. I'd love to be your cousin.

The guy's got a pub in the grounds of his own house. Oh, yeah, but you know what? Of course he has. In the way that I can imagine Terry Venables would have had that. Yes, of course. There's a certain type of bloke. Danny Dyer must be building one at the moment. He's on the way.

He's 10 years off. He's got a bit, isn't he? I mean, I'm willing to bet a large amount of money. Sam Hallardyce has got one. It's a very old school shouting wearing an an anorak in the technical area thing to do. Yeah, it is. Yeah, exactly. And a meat raffle twice a month in the grounds of his car.

Well, these are pretty houses, Nihal. Yeah, they're kind of weird, aren't they? Nahal Athenayaka? Yes. So tell me about your child, Nihal. Your mum was a nurse, is that right? Yeah, that's right. My mum was a nurse.

She was in the NHS for 36-odd years. There's a park around here somewhere. Oh, let's go there. And I have no idea where it is. And that's why Eisha volunteered. But Eisha is Neharl's lovely wife. Yeah, yeah. My wife volunteered and said...

Why don't we'll find it? This is part of the adventure. Let's just go and find it. Oh, I like that. Yeah, let's just go and find... It's hardly Indiana Jones, but I mean, it's my version in suburbia. You think you're Captain Oates? Because you're trying to find a park near your house.

My dog is kind of attired like Ranald Fines. Oh, Luna. Oh, Luna. We're going to get on to Luna because I'm already obsessed at the staffies. So your childhood, your mum, this was in the 70s you grew up, really? Yeah, yeah, born in 71, yeah. And what was your dad around? Your dad and mom were married?

Yeah, so my mum and dad came here in the 60s. My dad, it's quite interesting because, you know, a lot of Asians, I think they clubbed together and they bought a house. So one family would come over, buy a house here, then the other family would come over, and then suddenly you have a little Asian enclave and then that would get bigger and it'd be an Asian street and then it might be a whole Asian neighbourhood. He wasn't about that.

I mean, he often said, look, you know... And Sri Lanka your parents came from here. Sri Lanka and Sri Lankan singleese, which in itself is quite a... We're a niche amongst minorities in this country. Because most Asians in this country are either Indian or Pakistani. So if you're Indian or Pakistani, that takes up the bulk of Asians

and then there are the Bangladeshi. and then come the Sri Lankans. And then when you get the Sri Lankans, the Sri Lankans are mostly from the Tamil community. We're from the Singhalese community. So we're then a minority of a minority of a minority. Right. So my dad, A, he didn't want to recreate little Sri Lanka in the UK.

I think he wanted us to assimilate, I think. Did he? Well, that's not fair, actually, because he did always, every three years, take us back to Sri Lanka and he's quite adamant. He tried to get us to meditate. he thought that would be a good part of our kind of Buddhist upbringing to meditate. And, you know, 10 and 11 year old boys playing football all the time, being very English.

You know, we just sat there and giggled for an hour. And that was the last time. And that was the last time. Were they both Buddhists? Yeah, yeah. We're kind of culturally Buddhist Sri Lankans. And are you a Buddhist now? I identify as a Buddhist, but, you know, I couldn't tell you the last time I went to temple.

I don't really, I couldn't, chapter and verse to tell you any of the Buddhist. prayers, I take on things that the Lord Buddha said. I think one of the most important things is man has no refuge but man and that equally human has no refuge but human in the sense that you can't just pray away your sins. You can't just go and give over money to a temple and then suddenly you're good. You have to be able to look within yourself and understand your frailties and understand the issues that you have with life and confront them and do something about them. So, and karma, I mean, karma is an important part of how I choose to like that. I like the way, because you say it in the proper Buddhist way, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Karma. Karma. Whereas you say, karma, chameleon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what was your dad's job? He was an engineer. He had a degree in a first class degree in maths and physics.

Yeah, he was a masters, I think, in physics. I mean, he's super brain. You know, really, really clever man. Because people often associate, and correct me if this is a real sort of clichéed trope, isn't it? The idea of the Asian who's got this sort of head for figures and greater numbers and all. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you think, oh, that's a real cliche.

Is that because that is a sort of Asians, I think, are, I think they're good parents and I think they want their kids to learn. Is that part of it, do you think? Or is that just a tired old trope? I think there's just an immigrant mental. which says that you must be more successful than us and we will set in motion the elements that will make you hopefully be more successful. So what we'll do is I'm going to come here and I'm going to work in a factory six days a week, 16 hours a day, so you don't have to.

And I'm going to give you the best education I can and I'm going to work really hard to show you that hard work has benefits. So, you know, there's a whole generation, my generation really of Asians, who perhaps didn't see a lot of their parents. That's interesting because David Badeal, when I interviewed him for this podcast. It's a very similar Jewish mentality, actually. Well, that's exactly what he pointed out. He said to Asians, he said it's the same mentality in a way, which is, I want to give you the best start.

It was fundamentally a belief in education. The education, you know, knowledge will set you free. Yeah. And you come here and you work hard. I mean, there's countless stories. in the Asian community of fathers, mothers who worked in factories and sons and daughters who are doctors. And having presented a phone and show on the BBC Asia Network for many years, I've heard countless of these stories. But it's not an immigrant story. There are plenty of West African, Nigerian and Garnayan families who are exactly the same.

I mean, the shocking statistic is that the worst GCSE results are white working class boys. boys in a country which is 85% white. You know, that's the most shocking story for me and the thing that kind of... And why do you think that is? Well, there's two ways of assessing that. Some say it's because all the resources have been given over to, you know, minorities. That's the kind of right-wing trope and that. I wonder if there is a sense of entitlement there.

that this is our country and that things will be all right. And meanwhile, all these immigrants kids have just got down and just gone, we're going to be something. And that's not to say, of course, look, there are plenty of white working cast people who believe in education and believe in their kids making it. It's very difficult to ascertain. I mean, there is also low expectations. So if your parents weren't grafters,

if your parents didn't believe in education, it's going to be quite difficult for you to just take that on. I think that's true what you initially said, though. I compare it, and I hope this isn't too shallow a comparison. I sort of knew on a personal level, it's like I was always grateful in a strange way. Now, I'm grateful there are a lot of the pretty girls in my class. I was fine, but I was never sort of a ten,

and I look at those tens, and I think, well, I had to sort of work on a bit of a personality. Because I think you have to. You're easily a nine and a half. No. But secondly, your personality... I wasn't half-owning for compliments. No, but your personality would definitely take you over the nine and a half over to...

Well, that's the thing. What you've got to do is add these bits up, you see. Well, no, it's just who you are. You don't contrive a personality. You either kind of have one or you don't, don't you? Although I think when you're growing up, if you're told from an early age, and this happens more with women, I think, actually, you're beautiful. That is a passive thing to be.

You are beautiful. You had no control over that. You didn't make an effort. You have no control. You just are. You don't do. Well, that's why I say to my nine-year-old daughter, when I say that she's beautiful, I always make sure I say, and you're so clever. Yes, I think so. And you're so strong, and you've got such an amazing person.

Like, I make sure that I don't just say, oh, God, you're so beautiful. Of course I'm going to think she's the most beautiful thing on her. But you're right, you know, to make sure that that's not, I don't want her to think that that's how she should define her sense of worth is on something, yes, she's done nothing to do it. Because that's something that's done to you. Yes. If you want to do to the world, it would have more than pretty. You know, you have no control over that. Yeah, I mean. This is what's happened. You know what happens now? You're so interesting. And we immediately get into light. We're on. Yeah, yeah. This is coming up the second now on my life. I can't help it because you're a natural debater and you're fascinating.

But I'm afraid this has to be about you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. So, sorry. for you because you're always used to talking, finding out about other people. Yeah. Oh, it's nice to be on the receiving end of it for a change. Well, then I'm going to put you on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So your dad is an engineer who's coming.

I'm getting a picture now. Your mum's a nurse. Yeah. What sort of a, would you describe your house as middle class? So I grew up in a, yeah, so the definition of middle class, I guess, is that you grow up in a house that is owned. So it's a mortgage. You're not renting it.

Someone else doesn't own it. You've got a mortgage and you're down. And I grew up in that house. born in Harlow Hospital and went straight into a house that my parents had bought. And it was their first house that they had bought in this little village. You know, God, this is like the 70s. And you're this brown family, right, in the 70s. And we forget, you know, because now we live in this country where people of my colour can demand things.

We can say, well, we're British. We pay taxes. Why are you treating us like this? Why is they not diversity? Why is they not? What's that now? Is that a border terrier? Yeah, it's a border terrier.

Hello. That's a terrier. A border terrier. I call them 1940s dogs. They look like something at the 1940s. Oh, so lovely. What's this dog called? Jeff.

Well, Luna's 14 now. Hello, Jeff. He's nine. Hello, Jeff. What a great name. I'm keeping her a bit like this because she's a bit old and grumpy. Yeah. So she won't attack, but she would just growl a little bit and be a bit,

because she's now a bit old and a bit cantankerous, as we will all become. Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh, hello, Ted, look at you, you're so cute. Can I just say, that's a brilliant name. My dog's called Raymond, actually. So, yeah, it always inspires that reaction. Why did you call your dog, Jeff?

The husband's choice, he just thought it looked like a good name. Can I just say I love your husband? I don't know him, but I love it. He called the dog Jeff. Well, bye, Jeff. See you. Jeff, that's amazing. That's amazing.

But that gives me, what you call it, gives me a little insight into that family that they've got a good sense of view. Yeah, I like them. Do you know what, or maybe he just thinks, what's the wrong with it? Call it, Jeff.

When I first... Go like a good name. Jeff, he's a proper solid English name. Maybe he's a real. Maybe he's Jeffrey. Maybe named after Chaucer. Something, maybe there's a literate. No, I think Capes.

Okay, Jeff Cates. Oh, Jeff, all right. Or Boycott. Boycott. It's Hurst, Cape. Oh, no, not boycott, actually, because that's Yorkshire. Okay, now it'll be Hirstall Capes. Yeah, yeah.

So tell me, so your child today, you were talking about this thing of feeling, feeling other, I suppose, in the village. That's been a constant. That's been a constant. And it was your brother who was, you had a... Yeah, he's 11 months older than me. Right. Yeah, so we had a brother.

Were you close to him? Yeah, he's cool as. I mean, we are chalk and cheese, literally. I mean, he is an accountant. Right, so, you know, Radio 1 DJ, accountant. accountant actually no now he's an IT analyst yeah he's an IT analyst that's the new accountant yes yeah yeah yeah yeah so he's we've just met another dog yeah who I is that a I don't know what kind of dog that is I don't know hello what kind of dog is

that it's a cuckapoole oh lovely oh oh this is a Luna is a Staffordshire and she's she's she's she wants to go home she's 14 years old and she hasn't got that kind of sprightly thing anymore. She's... Oh, did he have the cone of shame? Yeah, he has, but I've just taken it off because I'm walking. Yeah. The cone of shame.

You know the cone of shame? Yeah, I do know. Looks like it's going to pick up Sky TV or his neck whenever I see a dog's like that. My dog Raymond had the cone of shame, but they'd given him a sort of, they'd attempted to make it fashion. It was like denim. A denim? A denim. A denim?

Did you have the clear plasticy one? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Denim? Geez, that's a bit much. That's so London. I know, it's very London. Oh, this one's a bit grumpy. What did you say your dog's name was?

Murphy. We've met Jeff and Murphy. Jeff, we met earlier. Do you know Jeff the Border Terrier? Oh, you've got to get involved. I know Althe and I know quite a few. I can hear that that's your heritage, is it? Murphy's, is it?

We're going to call them Paddy, but my son is called Patrick. Oh, right, right. So that would be confusing. That would be confusing. So Murphy is a good, that's a good, solid. It is, isn't it? South of the border. Is that? Yeah.

You think... Ireland is wrong to me, but there you go. Yeah, Murphy. Brilliant. Brilliant. Bye, Murph. See you. Bye, Murphy, see you. Murphy and Jeff.

You see that, that's so interesting to hell because most people, I notice on dog walks that that encounter is part of it, but you basically end up interviewing everybody that you meet. You're very curious about people, aren't you? I do. I love people. I love it. And I love...

I just think everyone's got such a... fascinating story to tell. One thing that you kind of, I would say subconsciously, but perhaps not subconsciously, is as an Asian, you kind of want to make sure that you are, you overcompensate for the idea that perhaps you're going to be, all Asians will be judged by you. Do you think so you think to yourself, well, you're a brand ambassador? You kind of end up having this horrible, which you, then you resent because you're thinking, well, why can't I do it? Well, actually, actually saying this right okay so you've seen me walk a dog and I'm quite pleasant and conversation in a car I'm horrible like I swore at two people this morning car

one of them I was just going you effing idiot why is that because you're because they would say they let me in and they should have done it was those rude just rude so I'm not a great brand ambassador in a car but that's because no one can see you so does it get maybe you feel less exposed maybe I don't know I think because I grew up in a village with no brown people around me for mine Yes. I'm just, I just like people and I just judge, I don't think that you can be my friend just because you happen to come from Sri Lanka.

I don't think suddenly we're bonded because, and we'll be mates for life because your parents happen to come from the same country as me. My groomsmen at my wedding were of Jamaican, solid English, Asian, just a whole background. my social circle of close friends are just super mixed. Well, I want to talk about that as well because I know you got into rap and that was obviously a thing that you felt part of... Yeah, that was the first time I felt part of something. And I wanted to ask you first step, were you close to your...

What was your relationship with your parents like? It's, I mean, I, you know, adored my parents. I think my parents are my greatest role models, but they are from such a different culture. You know, my kids and I can have conversations and will have conversations in a way that my parents and I could never have had conversations. You know, I had multiple girlfriends. And was that frowned upon, do you think? No, actually, no.

My parents were very liberal. I remember once my, I had a... Can we get the multiple girlfriends chat out the way before we go back into the house? She knows, actually. No, it's quite interesting with Mrs. A. No, it's quite interesting with Mrs. A, because Mrs. A, as, you know, she had her fair few relationships as well. And we were really honest with each other about that when we first met each other. Really?

Yeah, because, you know, I've not been a great boyfriend in the past. And I was very insecure about relationships. Were you? Yeah, deeply. Why? Because the first love of my life did the classic, unfaithful to me, broke my heart, all that stuff. I hate her. No, but from that point on, you're going to hate me in a minute.

From that point on, I ended up, every girl I went out with, I was kind of unfaithful to them before to kind of just kind of insulate myself from being hurt by them doing it to me. It was a kind of case of, and it was horrible because you just stayed in. Yes, because I think what happens is your portcullis comes down. Yes. And then you're like, right, no one's coming in here because that was rough. Yeah.

I don't want of those sieges again. Yeah, exactly. Well, exactly, but the thing is I do love to love. Like, I love to be in love, I love to give love. So imagine if someone was walking past and just heard you saying to me, I do love to love. Yeah. That's disgusting.

He's got that lovely wife in there. She's fine. Did you not notice the fishbell thing with the keys in when you carry out all our neighbours? Someone's going to open the window. Someone's going to open a window naked and go, are you coming over for our 3.30? I'll go, no, I can't. That's the trailer. So, but yeah, so the woman, oh look.

There she is. There's Mrs. Oh, there's a Fitty. Oh, she's my 330 actually. Oh, look. Hello. Hello, that is. Hello, that.

That's not Chester, is it? It is Chester. It is Chester. Chester is really super excited with life. Chester? Isn't it? Yeah, I know. Chester, darling.

And he's growing at quite a race, isn't it? I know, I know, darling. I know, Chester. See you? Bye-bye. You can see why Chester needs a walk because he is quite intense. Chester reminds me of Justin Bieber during his wild period. Yeah, oh, Chester regularly throws eggs at people's houses.

I mean, he's all over it. Yeah, so I'm interested in this relationship, because it started when we were talking about your parents and how your parents, they didn't have those sort of expectations on you, but they weren't, they were traditional, I suppose, in some ways. Yes, but very liberal. I'll go around here now if you like. Yeah, yeah, we'll just a second. I mean Sri Lankan,

um, Sri Lankan Buddhists are very liberal. Like, you know, Buddhism, by, it's a religion that is, it's, I mean,

it doesn't impose lots of rules and regulations on you. It's quite philosophical in that respect. So it relies you, it relies on you to kind of think, rather than just do. Yes. So in that respect,

and my parents weren't particularly religious. So, Remember, they escaped in some ways a country. So they just wanted us to live. They wanted us to, they never, say, for instance, I never heard my parents say, oh, you're becoming too westernised, which is something that a lot of Asian kids hear from their parents.

Their parents are terrified that they're going to become too westernised. Well, you've got to ask yourself the question, why bring someone to the West if you're concerned about them becoming westernised? It's bizarre. It's like, oh, we're going to go on a sunny holiday, but definitely don't get a tan. Well, what is the idea? Don't take me on a sunny holiday. You know, it's the same kind of thing. I obviously find that.

And we didn't, I think, so my parents never taught us the language. So my brother and I don't speak Singhalese. We know the odd word. We know the kind of cultural things, but... I know you lost your dad, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, 19 years ago. June the 6th, 2000 is when he had a heart attack and died. So you were quite, you would have been, what, so 28?

20 years? Yeah, I was in my... Yeah, late 20s. And I hadn't really, I was working in the music industry. And then I became like a music journalist for a little while. I mean, I left university, became a rapper, actually. And then that's when I was in the bands. That was empty crazy.

Well, actually, it was, I think I might have ditched that name by then. You were in a couple of, but how did your parents react to that then? Were they okay with that? I just think that they, I don't know if they were okay per se with me being a rapper. They certainly weren't okay with loads of blokes from South London coming through our living room to go and record wraps in our back room of our house in this little village, Essex. You know, these blokes walking past with gold teeth going, hello, hello, what's happening? You're all right, you call, yeah? I'm not sure they were exactly over the moon with that.

My dad probably was, my mum, being a nurse, she's very open-minded. She meets people from all different classes. Yeah, she works for the national health and she's, yeah. That's the great thing about them. They never, they never, my dad said, look, just do any. degree because a degree he said is not about a vocation a degree is about discipline in your mind look they sent us to a rough comprehensive school it's not like they sent us to a grammar school whereas the headmaster of my primary school

said you he should do the 11 plus and go to a grammar school and they said no because see ya see you said that is an older brother my older brother had already gone to the secondary school rough old comprehensive school in Essex at the time And we went to that, so look, you're a brown kid in a rough comprehensive school. These are the options. You've let people call you the P-word, the racial epithet, and you spend your entire life cowering in a corner. Yes.

Oh, the first time someone says that to you, you punched them, and you repeatedly punch them, so that other people suddenly realize, well, probably not a great idea to do that to him. And I went with the latter, not the former. So we're going to drop Luna off now. We've just got to your house. Yeah.

Just because we should explain why she's knocking on. She's an old girl now. This is the dog, by the way. Yes. No, she, although she feels like an old girl after a big night out last night, I can imagine. She doesn't look like one. No, she does not. Luna had a nice walk, but I think that was enough for her.

Oh, Luna, now you want to come with us. You want to be with us, but you don't really because mummy's there. Do you want to coat? Look at your dandruff. Where's all that come from? No, that's rude. I've come all the way up here. And I washed my hair this morning.

Okay? Well, I just, I just, I just think that I'd believe in being really honest with people. We were talking, before we dropped Luna off, we were talking earlier about your parents and how you'd gone into post-university. Yeah, so I signed a record deal in my third year. That was it. At university. Yeah. So that was impressive.

That was good, that was good. And then we went on tour and we had Joe Wiley and Steve LaMack support, NME support. It was good. And it kind of gave me a taste of wanted. But also, you know, I was a British rapper in the early, no, it wouldn't be in early 90s. It would have been early 90s. So that's kind of two decades, two and a half decades before dizzy rascals and where, where now British rappers are more successful than American rappers in many ways.

You know, rappers like Stormsy and Dave and all these guys who are making tiny temper. There's a fairly recent phenomenon, you know. But by late 80s, I'm in my late teens and it's all about hip-hop. I mean, it's all about public enemy and Cyprus Hill and NWA. And I'm obsessed with that, you know. I'm obsessed because they gave me a sense of that being a person of colour had value. which you just didn't feel at all growing up. You felt that being a person of colour

made you constantly waiting for validation from someone else. But public enemy gave me validation from within. I wasn't, you know, it was like, well, okay, and also the reason I'm at Five Live, the reason I do this job I do is because of public enemy. It's because of Chuck D. It's because of not literally everything that he said, but just an encouragement to see the world in a different way

to not take on board what you're being told as being the truth. And it was public enemy that did that. It's a question everything. Yeah. It's a question everything. I remember just being pointed out that the size of maps were wrong, that the ratios were wrong. Right.

So it would make it look like Europe was as big as Africa. Well, it's just simply not the case. So fascinating, isn't it? Right? So Great Britain was on a map and it was like the size of France or something. And it's like, well, that's just not true. But also a thing like that, it has an effect because it tells you that the world is actually the Western world. And that's what matters. And that's when you get an unconscious bias, isn't it?

Yeah, but you also get a conscious, conscious, um, a feeling of being inferior. So you get an inferiority complex because you're constantly given... Because we grew up in a... Look, my kids will grow up and they can see Riz Ahmed, Mindy Kaling, Gus Kahn.

There's so many people that they can see. Yeah, they can... Well, there's a giant picture of me on the side of the wall at Media City. But that's what I mean. I think that is important that they see their father as a role model.

you know. Well, I think it's important that they see people of, that being a person of colour is normal. Well, you can take up space. Yes. Yes. Without feeling as though that you are an interloper, that you are someone of value and that your opinions, your ideas are not given to you as a form of charity, that you're, they are equally as valid as anyone else's. Yeah. My kids are third generation and, you know, my parents came over here with nothing, bought a house. paid off a house. Now my brother and I have caught, you know, we haven't got a property empire, but we've got more than one property and they've managed that in a generation. They went to state, we went to state schools. My nephew and my two kids go to private schools. So that's all been achieved in a generation. I think that's an extraordinary achievement. But that's part of the immigrant going back to initial part of our conversation.

that's going back to just having that that will to succeed to say. Well, it's like I can't sit back and rest on my laurels. Yes, yes, yes. Because there's no entitlement. You don't feel entitled. So did your, so when your dad died, has your mum still with us? Yeah, she is, she is. She's 81 this year.

And that was out of the, that must have been a bolt out of the blue. And how did that affect you and does that continue to affect you? Oh, every day, I think. so yeah because of course you just want him to have met them your kids you want him to have been given a new lease of life by the joy and the energy and the opinions that they have he never saw me join the BBC he never saw me become a board member of the British Council or the board member of the South Bank Centre he never saw me be in the Olympics for the BBC or the Commonwealth Games for the BBC never saw

me inducted into the Radio Hall of Fame. He never seen any of these things. He saw a rapper who then became a music PR. And okay, a music PR that worked for Elton John. But, you know, Elton John didn't mean anything to him. He wasn't like, you know, he wasn't listening to Elton John. So all of those things meant that, oh, hello. Someone's called me from my agents.

No, no, it's my agents. If it was something like, I mean, usually Obama calls at this time, but I don't usually pick up. Harkner Hall, I wouldn't surprise me. I didn't usually... He's bored now. So bored. It just rings up random people.

Bored. And I know I'm interested in that because Frank Skinner has a similar thing where he lost his parents really at a similar point to you. I think he would have been late 20s, early 30s or something. It was just when things happened for him. And I think he does have that sense of... I can imagine you would feel, oh, I wonder what they would have thought of this. Yeah, and weirdly enough, I am my maternal grandfather. That's who I am.

I'm him more than I am in some ways my parents, and he was murdered. Was he now? Yeah, he was shot in Sri Lanka in the early 40s. Right. Probably 1940. So, and I did a documentary on him for the World Service. And it was a kind of who do you think you are really. And I just discovered about him, about this kind of sense of sense of injustice,

that things are wrong. It just burns you. You can't be apathetic to that. That's why, say, the plight of white working class boys bothers me. Because I kind of think that's not right. Child poverty, it's just not right. You know, some people who say, you know, there are three million. children living in child poverty, absolute poverty.

And then they'll say, their response won't be, God, that's terrible. How do we sort of that? That's what? Well, it all depends about the definition of absolute poverty. And I'm like, that's not the response. Well, it's many of these people going to food banks, etc. You know, it's that attitude, isn't it? Oh, well, the reason there are more people going to food banks is because more people have become aware that food banks exist.

And therefore, they're queuing up because they get free stuff. You're like, okay, okay, yes, it could be that. Lottery tickets. Yeah. It was interesting, you said, you care about this, you care about the plightote, you use the word you. I would say, you care. I don't think you as a word could be used in that. Because I don't think everyone does care.

And I don't think that makes them bad people, but I think it's a lot of people. The decisions they make in terms of how they vote or how they interact with the world are based on their own experience. And I don't know. I have a theory and I'm not saying this informs everything about you, but I do, I'm starting to realise, having experienced grief and loss myself, I do think, and it sounds like smug dead club, so apologies if it does, but I do think it does give you an insight into empathy that perhaps you didn't have before. And it certainly has opened my eyes up to think, you know, I think it makes you less brittle, it makes you more. Yeah, I see that. It's a, I think, I think, I

think it's a different perspective you view life through a slightly different prism is what I think well I need to be more tolerant of the intolerant because I I lack tolerance for the intolerant and it's something that in order to build bridges with people who are intolerant you can't just be intolerant of them you've got to try and understand why it is that they're intolerant I agree I had a exchange with a really I respect so much this is on the show it's no on Twitter right because I said you know what is it that makes you think that Tommy Robinson is worthy of your support. You know, what dire situation must you be in to think that that man can sort out your problems? And someone just tweeting me who's really well known,

and he said, he's a journalist now based in America in Washington, and he said, well, it's easy, they're racist. And I went, no, that's not what it is. He said, oh, but all the statistics proved to that it's race-based. I said, I don't think it's too simplistic to do that. It isn't, you know, it isn't that, just that. Because where does that racism come from? Then you have to just dig a bit deeper and say,

well, where does that sense of outrage, that anger at your lot in life or other people? Yeah, where did it come from? And normally it is who hurt you. Yeah. And I don't mean that as an insult, because I think anger or outrage or intolerance generally comes from something, some sort of damage in some way.

Something has been damaged. Oh yeah. I mean, there's no, it's not really a surprise that if you look at the profiles of some of the people on the far right and people who are ISIS, they're pretty similar. Yeah. You know, if you look at the Bataklan terrorists, these were petty criminals from broken homes. And then you look at the guys who are done for fire. right attacks in America, petty criminals from broken homes, bad childhoods, bad

decisions, economically on the on the verges of society, they're outsiders. Oh, is it here? We're in the coffee shop. It's called the fake house. This is nice. This is lovely. What can I get from tea coffee? I'm going to have the same as Mrs. A. Mrs A is having pumpkin spice latte. And I've got to get one of those to go as well but not for a little while because we're going to sit in here for a bit. Is there anything I can eat? I want some cheese toast.

Have you got brown bread? Yeah, with a bit of Worcester. What can, yeah, with a bit of Worcester, exactly. Which, you can have this after for your dessert but do you like milk caramel or creamy white? Neither of those. Oh, for goodness sake. Oh my god. What is, sorry, just white is not chocolate.

Oh. Bourneville isn't really great either, if I'm honest, if you want to go to the other end. So what chocolate do you like? I mean, I'm a Frera-Rosha type of chocolate. I mean, let's see. She's a very specialist interest, chocolate. I described myself as a JZ of confectionery on the radio the other day because of my tastes in.

It's like I'm going straight for the bling chocolate. So I'm interested because you got into radio then. Yeah. Not long after your dad died in terms of you started doing, yeah, it was two years after. Yeah, yeah. About two years and four months. And I remember you've found you.

from the weekend breakfast show on Radio 1. And do you think that's connected that timing that you had a bit of a rocket up your ass? Yes, it did, because I was working in PR and I was in my 20s and I looked at the future of people who were in PR who were then in their 40s and went, I don't want to be doing that. I don't want to be that guy.

I do not want to be speaking to a, I don't want to be 40 speaking to a 20-year-old researcher trying to persuade them that this band I've got is the reason. Maybe, I'm wearing a suit jacket with a T-shirt, because guess what, you still got it? That is very much. We're not going to name any names, but it's that look of the sort of expensive Richard James's jacket

and a T-shirt and jeans. So I know what you mean you just thought, well, that's not for me, but also you probably did. I don't know, it's assuming a lot, but I certainly, my life changed when my family, died and I think you do get that sense of oh god this is it it sharpens the mind isn't it does isn't it how did the first radio stuff happen so a friend of mine called shabs it was the first guy to give me a job in the music industry called me up and he went radio one are looking

for DJ to present here comes my cheese toast how else what is cheesy toast thank you there's so much cheese it's amazing um that looks nice would you like some Cheese toast. Now I'm having chocolate. Oh yeah, you are. Terrible chocolate. Not really chocolate. I'm not at this for the record.

You're not really having chocolate. Why? It's not chocolate. It's that creamy white. All natural. No palm oil or soy. Oh, well, that's good. That's good. That's so woke.

You were so jojew. He's like, like him to have oat milk in his hot chocolate. Yeah. And cheese. It's not even vegan cheese, is it? It's like proper cheese. So, um, yeah. So go on. So you'll make.

So I think I became a lot more strategic with my life. Because the thing is, my dad, I remember him telling me, right, I'm going to get 65, going to semi-retire, I'm going to consult for six months of the year, I'm going to spend six months a year in Sri Lanka. At 65, I'm going to do that. At 62, he dropped down on a heart attack. I was like, right, that is not happening to me. As soon as my kids get 18, I'll be in my mid-50s.

They're off to uni. I'm going to spend three months of year in Sri Lanka. I'm going to, yeah, without a doubt. I'm just going to make sure that. Is Mrs. A happy with that? Yeah, I think so. She's Sri Lankan born. So she's got actually a much bigger social circle in Sri Lanka than I.

I want to go back to your career, but I would also like to quickly just offer around. I need to know about you meeting Mrs. A. The British Council decided that the England cricket team were touring Sri Lanka in November 2003. and they decided, why don't we take out two BBC Radio 1 DJs to Sri Lanka, one of them happens to be of Sri Lankan heritage, and that would be amazing. As part of that, let's do a daytime kind of seminar when two BBC Radio 1 DJs

have a conversation with local radio presenters in Colombo, of which this beautiful woman who was presenting the breakfast show on a radio station in Colombo attended because it was a day off from work and she'd seen the poster which was a cartoon version of the two of us and she thought, oh that white guy looks quite attractive in that cartoon drawing. Turns up obviously there's a very brown guy doesn't look anything like this. She then spends about an hour just coating us off. So we'd say things like, so, When you're playing a record on the radio, there is an intro section, and that is an instrumental. And it's probably best that you don't talk over the vocals, at which point all of these people are looking at us like, are you kidding me?

Like we've come to listen to these morons literally teach us to suck eggs. They have literally come up to us, borrowed our watch, and are now telling us the time. And she could not hold her content for the shit that we were coming out with. Oh, did she say? Oh, she just went, oh, really? Thanks for that. But she grew up in America and then moved back to Sri Lanka. So she had this.

And her parents were basically, yeah. Yeah. And I noticed she had a pierced tongue. Read into that what you will. But I saw that and went, okay, she's lively. She's well lively. She had tattoos. My then co-presenter at Radio 1, I'd also clocked that she was attractive and she had a pierced tongue.

So he went flirt with her. And I, in my mind... Do you know what? I'm retrospectively furious. How dare he? It's like watching them back to the future and someone trying to get between them. You're like, no! So he's of...

He's like fifth. He's of Indian Punjabi origin. So I've gone in my head. Oh, big wow. Wow. In my head, I've gone, there is no way on my manner, Sri Lanka, I'm going to let an Indian Punjabi pull this beautiful Sri Lankan woman. You needed to do it for your country, literally.

For the brand, right? I was branding exercise. I like to think you were doing it for your parents. It was a noble. I'd never gone out with a Sri Lankan girl before. I'd never... Really? So had your girlfriends before Mrs. A?

Why? Did you think you'd marry this Sri Lankan girl? No. I'd made up my mind a year before that I never would because they're all so snooty. When we go to Colombo, it's like, Jesus, it's hard work. Nice? Eating cheese toast doesn't work. I'm going to have a little bit.

Let me taste that. Please. Only a little square I want. There you go. So what happened? So you, the battle was on? 100%. This guy, he quite likes, he likes a party and all that.

a bit more subdued than that really. He went, let's go find a bar. I went, should we go to a mall? And she looked to me like, why the hell what I want to go to a mall for? It's rubbish, so I was like, but somehow I managed to get her away from everyone else. Get the two of us into a tuck-took, go to the mall. We then went kind of shopping and she tried some stuff on. She was like, I really like this, I like that, da-da-da-da-da.

She then goes into the changing room, either pay for her. it, she comes out, he's all paid for, she's like, she's like, you didn't, no, it's like, no, that's not cool, you didn't need to do that. I was like, no, I know, I didn't need to do it. No, I didn't need to. My life doesn't, my life doesn't depend on me doing it. So then we were just talking and laughing and we just talked and talked and laughed and laughing and this energy that she has and then we ended up, you know, having a kiss and it was like, that was it really. That was it. And it was just, it's amazing because if you've gone out with people who are completely different culture to you, there's a lot of questions that they ask you and there's

lots of things that are normal to you that is not normal to them. I'm not saying they're good or bad. I'm just saying it's different. And then suddenly you meet this girl and there are none of those questions. Everything's just a given. You're just completely the first kind of 50% of getting to know each other, God, so you can just concentrate and having fun because you're not asking them about this and about that and about this. It's your people, isn't it? And when I say your people, I mean that in a sort of, it's kind of a spiritual thing in a way. It's that shared life experience, isn't it?

That there are given, you know. She says one of the things that she found particularly impressive was when I went to meet her grandmother, as I left, we do a thing where we will get onto our knees and pray to them to praise an elder. Is that right? Yeah. I love that. I've seen my own parents do that to older Asians and she saw me do that and she went,

right, okay, he's potentially a keeper, right? Because he's shown respect to my grandmother. It's interesting though because in a way you were part of, I see you as very much part of, I guess, of rap culture and that was your world and that was your, one of your friends are in that world and your work took you into that world. Whereas, how can't... I wouldn't say, if a friend was saying, I really want to meet a nice guy who's going to look after me

and I can settle down with, do you know what I mean? Yeah. I wouldn't say, maybe, you know, go and give public enemy a call. Or, you know, it's just... That is interesting to me that you're a bit of an anomaly in that way. I joined Radio 1 in October of 2002 and met Esha in November of... 2003. But you were also getting well known by that point and my question to you is that it's harder because

suddenly you get it's opportunity. I think I I sacrificed raw ambition for love. Did you? And a family. Yeah. And why? And what way did you? Because I saw I saw lonely millionaires and when I'd rather be okay but have her and have children with her. In what way did that involve a professional sacrifice do you think? Because I think that you can't just go off and make a documentary for three months, right? You can't just be at groucher every night and you can't just be kind of schmoozing and playing the game. I see that. You can't do any of that. You have to kind of go and I didn't want that.

You know, I didn't want to be that raw ambition. Because everybody I knew who was super successful, I looked at their lives, I went, I don't want this life. You've got a Porsche and you've got a big house. And I've dropped you off and watched you walk up the steps and go into that house alone. And did you get the sense as well? Because I remember reading about when you stood in for Chris Moyles, which I was interesting about it, the first time you did it. Yeah.

And you said you had that sense of, oh my God, I can't believe how are people going to react to me? It's like this guy suddenly standing in for this, you know, it was huge at the time, wasn't it? And it was, I suppose that what I was going to ask you is, did you ever have that, have you ever had that feeling of, you know, people call it imposter syndrome? Of like, have I got a right to be at the table? Until I got to Five Live. Really? Until actually until I got, not even until I got to Five Love, until probably this year. Really?

Yeah. I think now, now I think, no, now I know I'm brilliant at what I do. But I didn't, up until then. Then that's because I personally think you found what you are brilliant at. Yeah. Which is I think you were probably brilliant, you were brilliant, you know, you were talented anywhere and you were brilliant. But I can tell just for spending an. you know, just ten minutes with you in the street.

If the idea of fulfilment and happiness is to do what you are, that's what you do. I've seen you in the street. You go up with people and go, so how's Murphy? Is that because are you from Ireland and how's that going? That's what you do on your show. Yeah, maybe, yeah. And I think you're in, you found a job

where you're inquisitive, you're obviously interested in politics, you're interested in people, interested in how the world works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's probably something that let's be honest If you were great as the radio on breakfast show is And respect to it You couldn't be sitting there having the sort of conversations

About race and clubs and politics Yeah I found my perfect job Weird enough this is In some respects the Five Live audience Very tiny that they are Tiny proportion of them are really angry And very loud

And when I first kind of joined Five Live there was a lot of on social media like you're only here because of political correctness like you're only here because the BBC has the tickets to quota and you're the only Asian presenter on Daytime Five Live and you'd start to go oh god yeah you know maybe it is that and then you go fuck off how dare you like I've earned the right to be out And at some times I would just reply to people and go, why don't we meet up and I'll, let's compare CVs. And then once you've seen what I've done,

you tell me whether I said it to be a not. And I'll tell you whether you have the right to tell me. You know what I like that you know. Is it this is, you truly have joined the middle of classes. Yeah. Because you're saying, outside, mate, and get your CV out. I know. It's not outside.

I know. It's like, let's outside and compare CVs. Five Live has taught me not to be that X6. And the Asian Network. So you heard me have a very difficult interview with an American comedian, right? Now, back in the days, I wouldn't have been passive-aggressive,

I'd have been aggressive back to him. Would you? Yeah, 100%. I would have gone into battle rapper mode. Right? So I would have just gone, okay, you think you've got lyrics, I'm going to come for you

and I'm going to annihilate you, which would just make me look like a dick on the radio, right? I've learned that I'm just going to let you make yourself look like a dick. And I'm going to keep it calm and I'm just going to go, well, okay, and then I'll keep trying and trying. And the audience will go, that guy's a dick,

whereas Nihar was just trying to do an interview with it. And I've learned that, I've had to learn that, because I was that angry kid. Sorry, we're just working in that open all hours today. No. No. You got them candles, six. You know, I think that's a good policy in life in general.

because I'm very much of the opinion that if someone's ranting or silence, there's a difference between ghosting and silence, you know, in terms of dignified silence. And people will fill that space with their own shit without even realising it. You let them just do their thing. And I did listen to an interview you did. I won't name the person, but it was interesting to me because this person was being aggressive, defensive, angry. But I think that I definitely got a sense in that interview of him having to back down a bit.

It was like he tried to bully you and then thought, okay, he's not responding in the way I'm expecting. Yeah. Do you not get upset about things like that? I would have been really shaken after that interview. So after the interview, we came out and soon he went, oh, okay, that was okay, wasn't it? And I told him to fuck off. I said to him, are you kidding me? Did you?

I said, now I know how you felt when you interviewed someone who didn't want to give you anything. And he went, no, no, it wasn't like that. It wasn't like that. And I said, it was like that. You were being contrary. And he said, well, I'm sorry, but I didn't see it that way. And I said, because I, look, I've got all the friends I need.

You're on to come and sell something. Now, I'm going to open the door because I'm interested in you. If you want to be a dick, no good will come of it for you. Because I'll carry on doing the show. You've just got that hour, 40 minutes, to impress a lot of people that you're a good person, or you're an interesting person, or you're a valuable member of the human race. And he managed to do none of that. Can we get a pumpkin spice latte to go?

We're leaving here now if you want to get involved here. Let me clear up my plate away. I haven't even asked you about Luna, the dog. Yeah. Who's back home now? Yes. How old is Luna? She'll be 14 in October.

Oh. So I guess she's 13 and a half. And she's a staffie. And are you a dog person? Did your family have dogs growing up? I grew up with cats, actually. So my mum had cats. And then the reason we got a dog was because I was still DJing away a lot at the weekends.

My wife, quite rightly, said, you brought me over to this country and now you're going off every weekend. Brilliant. I want a dog. I want maybe a little Yorkie Terrier type dog. I went, you're not every one of those.

If we get a dog I lived in Westbourne Park at the time so we'd walk our dog around, you know, Labbrook Grove and all that. Yeah. It's a bit geyserish in the canal. So I want a dog that I can walk without feeling emasculated.

So that shows my own insecurities. So being from Essex, as I am, the only dog you can really get, or should really get, in my opinion, is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or Staffey, of course. As he's saying, it's like a visa to get into Essex. Those are Gucci Loafers are the two things that will ensure entry across the border between Hertfordshire and Essex or North or East London and Essex. So the Staffie was just a great dog.

It's also as well partly, it's a broad. bridge. Yeah. Between cultures. So I think people seeing an Asian with a staff, kind of just thought, oh, he's probably sound, didn't he? Sound as a pattern, didn't he? What, the Asian fellow would have staff?

Oh, he's a great lad. Love that, bloke. Top geyser. Staffy's eye see as a sort of British dog, the family portrait with the staff. Yeah, I think the thing is, is that staff he had. drug dealer dog written all over it, right? It just did, I mean... Yeah, it got a bad press, didn't it, the staff?

Oh, absolutely. And in the kind of early... Sorry, late 80s, when I was spending a lot of time in South London with one of my best mates, still my best mate to this day, and we're in our teens, late teens. You'd have people who were drug dealers who had staffies, and they were called Ninja and Tyson and things like that. Mine was called Spider, just definitely.

Oh, right, okay. Spider. Not three times and asked for Spider. And then you'd have like not only that, but they'd have like a red bandana tied around in it. I love Luna. She's the kind of sweetest dog. And she nearly died about a month ago. She had these seizures. We were in the Lake District and she started to have a seizure in the car at Isha's feet in the passenger.

So it was horrific. Oh. We thought we were going to lose her. Yeah. And up until that point, she'd just been the same dog. 13 years old but the same dog. Yeah.

Never changed. Playful, silly, stupid. Amazing. And now she is on the way out. And we think she may have brain cancer. But we didn't get an MRI done because we just thought, if she does have cancer, she's going to have to have chemo.

She's going to have to keep going back into hospital and we won't get time with her. In some ways, we're kind of just counting the months, really. You know, my wife and I had a conversation about this and I'll want to get a dog soon afterwards. I know it sounds horribly callous, but I can't bear the idea of losing her and then being in a dogless house.

It's very difficult, isn't it? Once you've had a dog, the idea of not having one seems awful, doesn't it? Well, this would be the first real bereavement my wife has had to deal with her. Oh, really? Father died when she was one, so she never remembered him. Right.

So... That's a different kind of loss, isn't it? Yeah, because she... What do you think the difference between that? I mean, I'm presuming you guys have talked about that because you both lost your dads. But how does that impact you differently, do you think, never knowing a father and losing one at a point in your life that feels a little early, to be honest, in your... Yeah, I mean, it's really, I mean, it's, it's bad luck, clearly. I think it's, I find it quite interesting, the relationship between daughters and their fathers and how important that relationship is for their future relationships, how their friends.

how their father treats them and how their father treats their mother and what as a woman or as a girl you grew up seeing how you're made to feel by the most important man in your life up until a certain point. And if you don't have that, I don't know how easy it is for you to measure what a good relationship feels like or looks like. Yes, I can see that. It's only when you acknowledge that.

My thing is that we also have to be. our own damage. Yes. I think the issues you get, which I had for years, is when you're in denial over that damage. So I've met people who've said, oh, meet my mum. She's the kindest, nicest person in the world. And then I've thought, Jesus, when I've, I just see this narcissist who's messed them up. Right. And I think, okay, your damage is that you don't, we've all got parents with issues. So I think once you acknowledge it, you just say, look, we're all, we're all guilty, none of us are to blame. Yeah. You know. Do you know, I did joke with Niall.

I actually want to move in because I love Mrs. A. And I love you. And I really like Luna and I'd like to spend some time with her while I can. Well, we have a spare floor. I just think it would be a really nice house to move into. I think so. You've got the son of a daughter. I mean, there's badger's.

And your daughter. I bet where you live you don't have badges. No. No, see? We have badges. Never seen them. Don't know if they exist. could be an urban myth.

Your daughter's got a drum kit as well, which we've got to Dachna, but I really wanted to see her playing drums. I think, I always think of, I love her. A female drummer is my thing. I'm obsessed by it. She used to fence as well. We're going to get her back into fencing again.

There's the car. There's the car. Now, this has been one of the nicest times. I had a pumpkin spice latte. I came on your show. Yes. I really had a good energy and vibe about you, and it's just proved that I'm absolutely right.

Oh, of course. I've made it about me. Yeah, of course. But no, it's proved you really are everything I thought you'd be. And I love Mrs. A. So do I. And you're a good man and you're an intelligent man and you've got the best dog in the world.

Oh, she is. Well, I think Raymond might disagree with that. I don't want to go. Give me a hug. Aw, you lovely thing. Right, I need my keys. Thank you so much for coming to see. Yeah, we'll get your key. Go and just open the door, it's open.

Mrs. A! I really hope you enjoyed listening to that And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.