Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Noel Fitzpatrick - The Supervet

Episode Date: November 9, 2018

In a very special edition of Walking the Dog Emily goes to visit The Supervet, Dr Noel Fitzpatrick at his veterinary centre in Surrey. They brave the rain with Keira his border terrier and Noel gives Emily a little tour of the place where he and his team perform miracles. They chat about his childhood in Ireland with his dog Pirate,  his life working with animals and his current tour Welcome to My World - (for further details and to book tickets go to noelfitzpatricklive.com)  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So there's an operation just come out of there. I don't know what, is that a cat? Oh, there's nothing in there. Because there will be people in there if there was. I don't think I'm going to get a job here. This week, we've got a rather special Walking the Dog for you. It's someone my dog is obsessed by. It's someone I'm quite obsessed by.

And it's someone I've heard even the Queen is a bit obsessed by. My guest on this very special edition of Walking the Dog is the wonderful Noel Fitzpatrick, also known as SuperVet. I went down to Noel's practice in Surrey, the one you see on the teddy, to meet him and his adorable border terrier called Kira. She's named after Kira Knightley. And it was everything I dreamed it would be, except for the bad breath. That's the border terrier, by the way, not Noel.

I hope you love my chat with SuperVet, as much as I love meeting him. He's quite an exceptional man, and he seems genuinely passionate about what he does. If you want a chance, by the way, to find out for yourself, you should go see him on tour. I'm off myself to the O2. and I can't wait. It's called Welcome to My World. It's meant to be an incredible experience and it's on until November the 25th. You can get tickets at Noel Fitzpatrick Live.com. I'm going to shut up now so you can hear the man himself. Here's Super Vet.

So I'm in Supervettes office. He's gone into his bedroom and he said, I'm going into my bedroom, you're not allowed in. So that was a bit of a knockback. But there you go. I'm with Kira, dog he's coming out we're going to go for a walk here he is I've got your hats I've got your scarves super vet is just handing this is your hat the producer and I hats yes and scarves and penguin scarves see I have all of these things in Larna which is behind this door here where you go to find things that you need when you don't have them that's your that's your kind of bedroom slash yes you don't want to go in there you might never come out it's a giant

It's a giant vortex. It might suck you in and you might never get out again. And do you end up sleeping there, do you? Yeah, you don't. How many nights a week? You don't want to go into the student accommodation inside there. I feel very comfortable in it, but I wouldn't recommend it as a lifestyle. How many nights do you sleep in there?

It depends on how many nights I operate late. Okay. It used to be five or six nights a week, but now it's probably three or four nights a week. It just depends on, I mean, if I finish it 2 o'clock in the morning, I just, you know, I'm too tired to go home. Yeah. So it's easier to fall asleep and wake up. That's how dedicated you are. Have you got everything you need?

Yeah, you've got your coat. I've got everything I need. I'm just going to get scars. These animal pills or your pills? They're my vitamin pills. Oh. Yeah. You must need those, I would imagine.

Well, the thing is that I am full on all the time, so. So, Kira's got her water. Right, let's get her lead. Is her lead in the other room? We're going to grab her lead. We're not going to be going in the mud, so we'll go out along the lane. Come on, Kira. So we're with Kira.

No, I haven't even introduced a podcast. Maybe I can do that outside. I don't quite know how to say this, but this has been my dream guest for some time. No, well, you're just saying that because you haven't got to know me yet. Good morning. How are you doing? Hello. Okay, in case you're wondering who I'm saying hello to, I better just tell you, I'm only with SuperVet.

North Fitzpatrick, he has got a name. And we're in his practice in Surrey, and it's raining, isn't it, Noel? Yeah. And we're with your dog, Kira. Yeah, and she's like, why are you taking me out, Daddy? It's lashing rain. And she's like, normally I go out and have a quick pee in the lashing rain

and run back into my snugly blanket again. Can I run back in now? she's saying. We're not going to go out for long because it's absolutely. It's absolutely bucketing down. Yeah. I'm going to need to get a... I think...

She's going to need her little jacket. Do you want to hold her while I go and get her jacket? Of course I will. Because she'll be like, okay, where's my coat? Oh, it's really raining. So I think we're going to have to go back inside soon. Come on, Bob. Put your coat on.

Noel's just putting Kira's little coat on. How old is Kira now, Noel? She's 11 now. She's 11 and she's a border terrier. Yeah, I'll do that. She's indeed a border terrier, very fluffy border terrier. How did Kira end up in your life? I'm lucky enough to share Kira with one of my nurses called Amy.

Because when I'm in theatre for a long period of time, she'll be bursting for a pee. And so fortunately she has a mummy and a daddy. Yeah. And we call parent. So we decided 11 years ago we both wanted a dog. and we thought we'd be okay parents because I was around a lot well basically Keir always knows where I am

but I wasn't always around to let her out for a pee come on Bubba you need to have some exercise today you know Noel's picking Keir up so we can I think I don't want her to walk because she's not comfortable because it is a horrible day She's actually fine she just would rather be curled up on a horrible day like this inside Of course wouldn't you know

Yeah, I think everybody would I used to be out in this When I was a large animal vet Yeah I was out in this morning, noon and night So I grew up in this in Ireland I was going to say that's how you started Because I was reading, there's loads I need to talk to you about

I want to, well you're in the middle of a tour We should say which I'm going to ask you all about Because I'm very excited and I'm going to come to it Are you going to come? Yes, I'm very excited Because I've heard incredible things about it And I've also read your book which I loved.

Oh, did you read it? Oh, I love it. Did you actually read it? Yeah, I really did. Well, all of it? Yes. Why are you surprised? Because very few people that actually talk to me...

Oh, there's a car coming? That's fine. That's fine. Very few people that actually talk to me have actually read all of the book. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Come on, Bub, we're going for a short walk. Weird to me. We should say, where are we, in old geographically? This is near... Is this not your land, as it were, anymore. This is a path near your practice. So we've just

walked off the practice grounds and we're now on halfway lane which is a lane which runs between the practice and the town of Godalming. Come on, you can do it, you can do it, you can do it, no, she'll be fine when she gets up a few steps. Okay. She's always

like this when it's raining. Oh, she also wanted a poo. That was what was going on. Yeah, that was okay, I get it now. Right. Yeah, you just wanted She's the boss. Yeah. I can do the poo because you're holding there.

No, no, it's fine. I've got this poo thing under control. Do you like the... I specialise in the acquisition of Kira Pooh. And she very much is the boss in the family. And as you can see, she just tells me what she wants and that's what gets delivered. Re Pooh? Not something I normally say to my interviewees.

What is the deal? If there's a poo coming out of your dog's bum, should you not pull it? Well, I'm not an expert in poo pulling, I have to say. But I think the technical term is a win-it when it's hanging on to the bum hair. I think you'll find if you look up the Oxford English Dictionary of Pooh etiquette, I think that's in there. So if there's a giant win at sticking out, you just have to be careful that it's not stuck to something sensitive. I don't have any strong views on, you know, the Winnett etiquette.

I'm relaxed around poo. You have to be when you're a vet. Let me go back to your... Can we go to your childhood now? Sure, yeah, yeah. I feel I want to go there because... Well, mainly it's because we're talking about me being accustomed to having my hand up the posterior of an animal from a very young age. I think that's where you're...

Is it? Yeah, I think that because I lambed lambs and carved cows, I became accustomed to being pooed on from a very young... I'm going to leave that poo bag right there. We've got the poo under control. We're going for a little walk over. Come on, Coolew. Come on, Bob. So your childhood, yeah, I got a really strong sense of it from your book and just what it was like growing up with the six of you, weren't there?

Or was it six siblings you had? Five. Five, sorry. Five plus me. Five plus you, so six in total and your mum, Rita and your dad, Sean. Yep. And he was a farmer. Yeah.

Wasn't he? So if you described your child, What's your abiding memory if you think of your childhood? When I think of mine, I think of Bohemian chaos, are the two words I would use. I think that my childhood was just a vocation of marriage to the land and the animals. I lived in an igloo really for the first 11 years of my life because it was a small rural Irish community so I wouldn't know what I didn't know. and there weren't any outside influences that were bad in any way, so I was very fortunate.

But equally, there was no outside influences that told me what the world was about. So it was all a big shock to me when the rest of life happened. I was really quite moved when you wrote about going to this school, because you said, I didn't know what I didn't know. Yeah. And I found that quite powerful because it's that sense. of going somewhere and feeling other, I suppose, and different and... You mean like an alien, yes.

Was that how you felt? It was kind of a posh boys. Well, it wasn't posh. No, it wasn't posh, but it was a boarding school for pupils from all over Ireland that was required by local statute to take some day pupils from the local farming community or the local towns, of which I was one. but all of a sudden in a single day, I was thrust into a situation where for the first time in my life,

I was meeting boys that had had different life experiences. You know, they had different education. So they could spell better than me, read better than me, do maths better than me. Definitely had done things like Kiss Girls, which was never on the agenda in any way, shape or form. And I was just shocked, really. initially and that turned into a sense of trauma when they saw that I was indeed very different

and I became a very easy target for bullies because I was not only a Kulchi which is a boy from the countryside yeah that's like an Irish expression is it yeah it means it means just somebody who's a bit of an Egypt i.e. doesn't know very much which I most certainly was and I came from the countryside whereas they came from you know rather more socially adept environments

and then on top of all of that I was I knew instantly that I had to study really hard to get anywhere and I didn't know until that point you know what that was so they saw immediately that I was very different and

I was a SWAT as they called it which was somebody who just studied very hard just picking up Kira's poo now to bring it back which is a very important thing to do and on the subject of poo they then kicked the living

daylights out of me every day and threw me in the quarry or most days and threw me in the quarry full of poo where the poo from the effluent from local yards and so forth was poured in the quarry so I ended up covered in various forms of grime with ripped underpants and ripped trousers coming back into class but that's just how it was you know

but you say that's just how it was but that's pretty traumatic no well you know it isn't it isn't in some ways I'm grateful because it it drove me to want to do better and to be to be to be so stronger and to do the best job that I could in life. Because I remember going home and my friend at that time was our sheepdog pirate. Oh yeah. So I just... You bonded, you formed a... That was your first real strong...

Yeah, it was my first real strong animal friendship because we lived... Well, friendship, it wasn't it in a way? We lived with a very functional attitude to animals because you live in a farm. Yeah. So every animal on the farm had to have a purpose and ostensibly pirate's purpose was to herd sheep. But in In my world he was my companion, my friend, my confidant and I remember going home and he's a collie, wasn't he? He was a white, a black and white border collie. Yeah. We're going to go in now. It's all right, Keira. We're going to go in. Kira just doesn't like the rain and as she's got older. She's like the rain less and less actually she's like okay I've I just want to go back and curl up on a blanket please

I mean Kira not only were we in the rain but we're talking about Noel's old love we're talking about his ex oh no she she's absolutely cool with that she loves everybody regardless it's a bit take it's not done to bring up the X in front of her I actually completely disagree with that I think you should absolutely air your dirty linen early on and I think that you come to peace with that you're done there's no No more covert activity. I'm just going to put, I'm handing you this while I go to the poo bin. Yeah.

And do my moral duty as a dog daddy. So Pirate was your... Well done, Baba. Confident. Sorry, Kirer, I mentioned Pirate again. I would hang out with Pirate in the cattle shed. And you had Vet Man. So I invented Vet Man really as a counter to the bullies.

At that stage, it was just someone I could believe in. You know, I was an imaginary hero. whose nemesis was called the man with no name because I didn't think the bullies deserve a name because they never look in the mirror anyway. They just reflect their own whatever their gripe is on you. That's the whole point. Projection, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

There isn't any bully that actually is able to look in the mirror. So he was the man with no name. Come on in, back in. Come on, Bubba. That's quite a sophisticated thought process at that age, isn't it? Well, not really, because I didn't know anything. So probably I invented somebody who didn't have a name because I didn't know very... much but vetman was a hero who was going to save me from all the bullies and was

going to save all of the animals in the world. It's really where? Come on, here we go. Good girl. Come on. We're back in Super Vets office now. We're back in Noel's office. I'm looking at a picture of Rita and Sean and it's on their wedding day and it's in Noel's office and it's the most adorable picture. You really look like your dad, Noel? Yeah, yeah I do look like my dad. There's another picture of him there. Let's have a look. Well I'm like my dad in many ways because he was a vocationalist farmer so he was never considered it a job. He just always considered that he was he it was his

vocation and you know people talk to me about work and stuff but at the end of the day I never really consider it anything other than this is my way of life. People often hear people interview you and they talk about why you're not settled down you haven't got kids you're not married and you're not in a relationship and I kind of get a bit irritated if I'm honest when people do that and the reason for that is that I think there are a lot of people that change the world and make a difference and there's probably someone at home with two kids who never sees that person so I would argue that you've done is responsible up until now that's my take on it anyway well I think

it is possible to do both I mean I mean, Daddy was married to a very patient woman in Rita because he didn't even come and pick me up when I was born because he was busy dehorning cattle. In fact, with that saw that's on the wall, that was the first injection syringe and tweezers that I used ever as probably a 10-11-year-old trying to pull arteries in the horns of cattle when they were being sawed off and injecting local anesthetic before they were sawed off. So those are my first surgical instruments right there. But I wouldn't recommend that, you know, you don't go and pick up your newborn son. But anybody could drive a car and only he could dehorn the cattle, which is, you know, fair enough. So I think the answer to your question is that, you know, Mammy was on the same journey as him.

Yeah. And she had six. Hilariously, I went to see her this past weekend. and I was talking to her about exactly this and she's 89 now and she said well look on the bright side and all at least he came home six times because she got six kids

so that is one very patient woman and I'm like oh that's just brilliant that done done that's it right there in one sentence Look on the bright side. At least he came home six times. So she was on the same journey and that's it.

You know, if you're lucky enough to find someone that's on the same journey, then it doesn't really matter. But to come back to what we were saying earlier, I think growing up on the farm, it definitely instilled a work ethic in me and a way of behaving which wasn't complaining. You know, I feel very fortunate to do what I do by comparison being out in the race. and we've just been out in, you know, calving cows all day. That's a hard job. And when I invented Vetman,

he was going to take on all of, all weathers and all bad people and all the ills of the animals in the world. And he was going to be able for all of that. And I'd like to say that I'm able for all of that, but the reality is that I think criticism ultimately, you know, does affect me. Probably wouldn't affect Vetman.

so much and I take things very personal. Do you mean now that your head is above the parapet as well, you're more exposed, I suppose, in that sense as well? For sure, you know, if you stick your head above the parapet, you're going to be the one that gets the first eye of the storm. And also, the reason I'm impressed you read the book is most people actually don't get the facts straight before they comment on anything. They just comment on some superficial remark that I've ever.

made somewhere completely out of context. I was impressed when I read the book because you were really, I felt like you'd thought about stuff a lot. You'd assessed your life, I think, in quite an objective way. I might go surgeon's way. When I decided to write the book, I did so because I thought it would be a good companion piece for the live tour because effectively the live tour is the book in visual form. You know, everything from losing my first lamb on a frozen field through to a cow pooing on my head through to the bionic bunker

that's all there and I just want because I had decided to do that anyway I thought that it was a good idea off the back of all the letters I was getting from kids I mean there's a big pile on the desk in there of letters from kids that I get

all the time I was just in Dublin and just a little girl just pushed this in my hand haven't actually opened it yet But this is typically what I get. So I should say, it's a pink envelope, and he's just opening it now, and it's a card. And what does it say, Noel? It says, I've literally just opened it.

So this was thrust into my hand in Dublin. It says, thank you so much for looking after all the animals. Thank you, Love Ella. And just some little girl would just put a card in my hand and drew some pictures on it. But I got hundreds and thousands of letters from kids all over the world that have watched the program, And I couldn't answer the questions they were asking me in every letter because they would say, I know you don't have much time, but could you answer these 75 questions? Well, I'm sorry, but I've got to go into the next operation.

So I put 75 questions multiplied by however many letters and tried to answer as many of them as I could in the live show. And take people and kids, adults and kids on a journey. And in fact, in the shows we've had from 6 to 96 in the audience and what's been remarkable, is their response to sometimes heavy science actually, which is really interesting, because what I wanted to do was take them through from very simple times of growing up on a farm in Ireland and going through school.

And every night, just people go mental with laughter when two things happen, which I'm not going to ruin for you. And it just a whole place erupts in laughter. And I know it's going to happen because I lived through it. And it was funny to me at the time. But to go from that to some pretty heavy science in the second half into Vetman's Bionic Bunker where everything, well, more or less everything becomes possible. And we ask some big ethical and moral questions about the fact that just because it's possible doesn't make it morally the right thing to do.

It needs to be in the patient's best interest. And then I thought it would be really useful to look at what a dog who has been man's friend for somewhere between 10 and 15,000 years might think of the way. world we've created today. I mean how a dog looking around the political or the cultural or the socio-economic or the sexual landscape of the United Kingdom or America or China what would they think of the world we've created anywhere in the world and I thought that would be a fascinating starting point so it's a dog's eye view on man's voyage and what world we've created and what world we might like to create in the future and what would man's best friend think of us

they'd probably go What are you doing? Woof, woof. Like dropping bombs on each other, are you mental? You know, segregating, separating. And I just, I think that dogs are all inclusive,

so they don't segregate and separate, and they love you unconditionally. And regardless of whether you're poor, rich, whatever your color is, whatever your sexuality is, when you come into my consulting room, equal. And that's very leveling if you think about it. And I knew that when I was starting out and I knew it when I was writing the show and I knew it when I was writing

the book. I wanted everybody to feel equal when they're reading the book or seeing the show and to look at things from a less polarized point of view and to take the light away at the end of the book which was brought to us by the animals, which is the light that I wished upon when I was an 11 year old kid looking up at the stars in heaven when I lost that first lamb feeling useless in a frozen field in Ireland, you know. And I wanted to give that light that I earned for to everybody, regardless of their age, because everybody's had a big dream. Everybody's had a goal, but life kicks it out of you. So... Well, do you think also, it's interesting that you talk about in the show about the dog's perspective on things and talk about

when you were 11 and that dream you had. And I sort of think, I've got a dog and what I found a real learning experience is there is a kind of purity. It's almost like if you look at, you look at people as having an essence essentially and then life is what happens in between and you get scared. You get frightened and you think I won't do that and you build up an armour. And dogs don't have that. Yeah, well, for sure, the starting point for me in doing any of the media I've ever done, whether it's bionic vet, whether it's super vet, whether it's the book or whether it's a live show, is that I wanted everybody to come on a journey with me and you can't do that with heavy science.

I don't think that anybody wants to access heavy science except through something that is emotionally important to them and I don't think you can change the world like I would like to do and make it fairer for animals and more Compassionate Society if you don't get access somehow so if you want to shine a light on anything you have to get your foot in the door you have to get a chink of light through that door or otherwise nothing will change and the only way you can do that and I knew this when I was a teenager I rapidly became aware through through actually reading de profoundus and and other books by great authors I rapidly learned that the quickest way to change things is through people's hearts not their minds so when I set out to make the show I set out to make a show about love and hope I didn't share so how to make a show about science right but in opening that door people are genuine they don't they don't balk at the operations or the

science as much as they would if you didn't have the emotional journey. And then what I'd like to do is take that landscape where you care about an animal in your home to a landscape where we care about an animal in their home. Yeah. I mean the hedgehogs, 95% of which has gone in the last 50 years. I mean the rhinoceroses. I mean the various animals throughout the world that we, through our selfishness,

have realmed into extinction or our clause to extinction. And that's our moral responsibility. and that's happening on my watch. 50% of all vertebrate species on earth are gone in the 50 years of my life. And is that when you set out initially, after you left university, and was that your sense, do you think? Was that what, when you thought I'm going to be a vet, was that why you did it?

I did it because I wanted to fix animals. And then I got very frustrated, and I knew I would get frustrated with a lack of progress and lack of being able to really change things. When I knew all the time, the progress was being made in experimental animals for human benefit. So in 1946, the first shoulder replacement

was done in a dog to help humans have shoulder replacements. And actually, the only reason the dog was alive for five or six years was the guy who did the experiment, went off to war in early 1940s. And therefore, the experiment was supposed to last six months to a year, lasted five or six years and the dogs lived longer so we knew that shoulder replacements work but yet in the mid-noughties vets are still saying you can't do shoulder replacement's not possible in dogs well hang on a minute what happened for the last 70 years have we not learned anything so the reality the

truth is that we get what we want from experimental animals in drugs and implants but we don't give that back and that's been the away for the last 250 years. So that became rapidly apparent to me as I studied that it wasn't fair and we weren't treating clinical animals that really needed a solution for that cancer in that bond that I'm holding up for you or... No folding up a bound for me by the way. Yeah and it's a really ruffled bone and that cancer, that bone cancer there is very, very similar to the bone cancer in a child. In fact you're more likely if you put a dog and a child side by side

with bone cancer, osteosarcoma, they are more likely to have a similar genetic map than two children. Because the, and the reason for that is, is the genome of, or the genetic makeup of bone cancer, is remarkably similar between the dog and the child. So my point is that why are we not treating bone cancer in dogs and children at the same time? We're not, because for 250 years, we've got into a pattern where the animals serve us. we've never given it back. Yeah, I see that. My life's purpose is to reconverge that.

When I hear you talk like that, you know, I get a sense of, well, I always get a sense of how passionate you are, and I think everyone does, and I think that's why, you know, you set up this practice, was it 12, 13 years ago? Something like that? Well, the initial Fitzpatrick referrals moved into its first independent building in 2004, 2005. Right, okay. And then we moved here in 2008. Yeah. And my goal was to build Avengers Assemble.

You know, my goal was to build a band of superheroes that would be super specialists and would take care of all of the animal's ailments. Because it's no, I don't think it's in the next 20 years, people are going to expect vets to be able to do everything. I mean, historically, you've gone to your vet, and you've expected them to mend a broken bone, open the abdomen, and take out a spleen and fix a skin problem in ear mites. Well, how can I be a specialist in mending bones

and know everything about ear mites? I can't. And yet, yesterday in Dublin, I got asked maybe 40 questions about skin problems, eye problems and ear mites. What by meant by people on your... Just people when I was signing the book. Yeah. And that's absolutely fine. No problem. But with total respect, I'm not qualified to...

answer that question because I haven't dealt with that for 15 to 20 years. And there are other people who are more qualified to answer that question. So that's the whole point in building Avengers. And you must also have a thing, I would imagine, doctors get it anyway, who aren't, but you're a celebrity now. I don't know how you feel about that word. I don't even think about that word. Do you know?

It's not like I hang out in a celebrity landscape, is it? I have a student bed set. I'm sucking a throat lozenge, not sipping a peanut collada by a pool, which is fine. I mean, if that's where you want, great, but I definitely don't consider myself a celebrity. You were first on tell you, before SuperVet, there was, it was the Bionic vet, wasn't it? Yeah, in 2010, yeah. And that was your first brush with this whole world, I suppose. How did that feel when that happened?

Did that feel like a change for you, or did that feel... Well, I'll put that into a microcosm for you. When we did Bionic Vet in 2010 and Oscar was the world's first patient of any kind of, kind to our knowledge that had skeleton anchored bionic limbs in two legs at the same time. So he was in the Himalayan Times and the Irish Times. I didn't even know there was a Himalayan Times. No. But he was.

And a picture says a thousand words. So I'm being interviewed by some American radio station down the line and they're going, oh my goodness, you're creating these bionic this and bionic, that's absolutely amazing professor Fitzpatrick. And I'm thinking, okay, well, you know, it's just an implant attached to a skeleton. And my next interview was with Leash Radio, which is the county I grew up in in Ireland. I grew up in a place called Bally Finn in County Leash Republic of Ireland. And his opening gambit was, so no, tell me how long has it been now since you've had your arm up the back end of a cow.

And so that was Bionic Vet. You know, it was going from the sublime to the ridiculous. But I mean, I was only a few years divorced from having my arm up the back end of a cow because in 1994 I still have my arm up the back end of a cow. And that was only six years previously. Because you were a rural vet initially. Yeah. Well, I was a large animal vet.

Yeah. Which I guess. And then you went to America. And then, this is my favorite thing. You're in casualty and heartbeat, which is my favorite in all Fitzmatric fact. Well, I made an active decision that I needed to know how. how to use communication. I wouldn't be able to talk to you

as if we were having a normal conversation without having gone through all of that. And I knew I wouldn't. So I actively sought out a drama course, partly because the greatest times of my life had been spent discovering great literature because that made me feel less stupid as a 12 year old, a 13 year old, a 14 year old,

and it helped me to take it to cope with the bullies. And secondly, I knew the vet man if he was going to make a real difference in the world and actually make a difference to all the animals and have a legacy that said we gave animals a fair deal at the end of his life on earth, although vetman was eternal. So he has a... I'm still working on that. I knew I would need to learn how to communicate. It's weird that surgeon's thing, isn't it? Because you need that rational head science head but then you need the bedside man-a thing. I often say this to my interns and my residents that I am lucky enough to work with or

train. I say people don't care what you know until they know that you care and they don't. You could be the best surgeon in the world and sit by the side of their animal and them and hold their hand or their paw and they don't care if you're not a nice person because I can have done 15 years of training and be super capable but if if you don't care, if you're not, and I totally disagree with divorcing emotion from medicine. Do you? I absolutely disagree. And one of the papers, and I never say the word proud, because if you've read the book,

you'll know that Mammy said pride takes a fall and daddy never really used the word pride. So I have real difficulties around that word because I never indulge in, you know, my successes or my fame in men's mouth because that's all nonsense and I'm going to die anyway. so I'd much prefer to think of it in terms of is it something I'm contributing to the world and one of the papers that I can say I'm proud of and I've written hundreds of papers look here's if I put this

no I'm taking out some like let's say I put that on the desk right vet record those are right so you're going to be an avid reader of veterinary comparative orthopedics and traumatology I would imagine no I want to read benchmarking anti-microbial use on farm Yeah, well, you're one of the few people in the world that do want to read that particular article. Guess what? I don't really. No. So my point being that if I open the inside of veterinary surgery here and talk about the, let me just see what might be,

accuracy of patient-specific 3D printed drill guides for the placement of cervical transpedicular screws, right? Whoa, what an interesting read that's going to be. Oh, I can't wait. Let me, oh, it's a page turner. Oh, look, there's a coloured picture with little spots on it. Ooh, that probably is too, though. It's like one of those pictures that goes in and out of focus. I think I can see a zebra.

That is not what you're going to read. So I knew that I'm not wishing in any way, shape or form to be disparaging because science is really, really, really important. And I still publish, I had a paper accepted yesterday to that journal there comparative orthopedics and traumatology. Because you can't drive a Ferrari without an engine. If you're going to have a Ferrari that's all shiny on the outside but has no engine, well, it's not going to drive anywhere, is it? So you have to have the science to drive that, but nobody wants to look necessarily in the engine.

It wants to sit in the Ferrari and drive it. So what people want to know is do I care and what does that mean? So I was lucky enough to be involved in a paper with a wonderful ethicist called Anne Galaher from the University of Surrey. And the paper is about the value of love in a medical world. and in an increasingly tetchy, inverted commas, world where people are afraid even to give you a hug. And actually, I've been criticised. You're not. You're a hugger. Yeah, I'm a big hugger, but I've been criticising social media for giving people too many hugs.

What does he think he's doing? He's invading people's space. I mean, come on, get a life. If people don't want to hug, they can say, please don't hug me. You mean people that have watched SuperVet and your style on SuperVet, which is in, I think it's series 12 now, which is on at the moment. I love it. And there is something weird about my dog. he does respond to it. I don't know what it is.

I do a little thing. I go, supervets on. So he knows. It's the Irish accent and the fact that he knows that I care. But my point about love is that you should, there needs to be a landscape where it's possible to emotionally care about your patient, whether that's human or animal. And I'm not saying emotionally involved with your patient, that's a different thing.

I'm saying emotionally connect and emotionally care, empathy, compassion, understanding from that person's point of view, what they're going through with cancer, that animal's point of view. That's what I'm talking about. And I think that because we tick boxes to do exams, it's very difficult to examine love. And how are you going to do that? It's so subjective. And in any case, we're in a litigious society where if you fail an exam, you can appeal. So we can't examine that in the university system. And yet, that's the single most important trait, I think, for a surgeon. Because I would hire people any day on the size of their

heart rather than their head. You say the family, don't you, which I like, not the owner, out with those. Well, I insisted with Channel 4 at the outset that we used the word family and not honor. I've never used the word honor. And initially there was some pushback on that. And I said, no, if we're going to do this, we're going to call them mom and dad. And some people also balk at that. We get that as well. And the whole point of doing that was to embrace with our terminology, again, it comes back to communication, the essence of why an animal in a family is important because that is a bond of friendship, solidarity and integrity, and it's not a bond of ownership. You know, I find that quite confusing sometimes, that idea of there is a school of thought

with training and the whole concept of obedience, which I worry about the soul-crushing aspect of that sometimes. I think there's a fine line, and I don't know what you feel about that, and whether, I know again, that's not your area, so I'm not asking you to be Caesar Milan. I'm not saying, oh, he's a dogman. But what do you think about that? I mean, in terms of animal souls being allowed to sing openly, if you like. Well, all I'm going to say is that I realised from a very early age that animals do communicate, whether we understand their language or not is another thing entirely.

So Vetman purposely wasn't Dr. Doolittle. He didn't talk to the animals. He listened to the animals, which is why the book's called Listening to the Animals. And it's about actually communicating with them and being in their... space rather than thrusting your will upon them. Wow, Supervets family is going to get at this. Hello. Oh, thanks.

Bye. Who was that? That was my receptionist saying that I was in Dublin yesterday to sign a few books and we were driving between two interviews and a swan mistook the canal for the road because it was lashing rain. So the rain was streaming down the road. So the swan landed on the road about five years. about five cars behind us and then tried to scopper around and it was a truck that narrowly avoided the swan then there was a taxi that almost hit it and screeched on the brakes and then a motorbike that swerved and I look back I'm like shh-h-h-h-h-h-hout and I shouted to the guy who was driving the cab turn around now and he's like me I can't or I can't because he was a doubliner so he wouldn't have said me he just said I can't

and some choice other phrases, which could only be said in Dublin. And anyway, he did, because I made him. So he turned around and I went back and stopped the traffic and tried to scurry this swan into an area where I could get him out of the traffic. I have to admit at this point, you're saying this like, it went absolutely viral. I saw this on social media.

Yes, and you're doing a brilliant thing, which is you're using your, you've got like a tweed jacket on. And you're using it to sort of usher the swan. And then you do the sweetest thing at the end. I mean, I'm telling you what you did. But you say, it's okay, mate. It's okay. You're going to be okay.

It's the most adorable thing. And you've gotten back to safety. Yeah, well, the thing about, it was lucky I had that tweet jacket on because I had it off of a television interview and it was perfect. Because when you're rescuing a swan, you have to try and make them feel that secure to the point that they feel, okay, there's no point in fighting this. I'm going to have to trust it one way or the other. And that means,

We brought, I ushered the swan off this busy road in Donnybrook in Dublin, which was rammed. And it was rain everywhere and there was pandemonium. And then I got it into a garden and threw the coat over because swans, when they can't see a clear flight path, and they put their head down. So I knew that the two things were to control the body and control the head and make the swan feel secure. So the court was perfect. And it was much more useful than on the television interview, I have to say. So I was very good because my assistant had bought me this jacket for the television interview because I don't go shopping.

And I think, like, it's an excellent swan-catcher jacket. That's what they're going to market it, is it? It should be the swan catcher for swan safety garment, yes. So who was that on the phone? So that was my receptionist saying, is there any way that we can, is there any way that we can, limit the number of calls from people who are taking up the phone line saying, oh, it's wonderful about the swan. Because she's trying to answer busy calls on, you know, various animals that need help.

And do you have that lot, Lola? People just calling all the time saying, like kids, you were saying they get in touch, obviously. But do people just call up and say, I want to speak to the super? Well, they're ringing because they just want to say congratulations. But, I mean, that's beautiful. and lovely. Actually, my receptionist just now was being very humorous because she didn't actually mean, can we tell people call what she meant was, it's nice that people are ringing in. It's lovely that they're calling. And I have a question for you know as well. Are you, you're a hugger and we've talked about that, I call it the anaesthetist's gene, which I know is not strictly what you do, but it's an ability to park your emotion. And I get the sense sometimes just from watching you on telly, which I know isn't always entirely accurate. but you do not get involved but you care as you say do you cry a lot like do you

cry when you have to end an animal's life for example yeah I I do cry especially if I've got to know the family and the animal well and I would say to people you know don't be afraid of your emotions you know it's I think it's okay super that's given us so much time and he's actually got surgery to do because this is a working... Yeah, Jay's here to do a total elbow replacement. Really? So how many...

Have you got, how many patients will you see in a day? We're just going to take a very quick tour now and I'll show you. Oh, brilliant. Morning. Hi. Good morning. Oh, I've seen dogs. What's wrong with this one?

Guys, vomit. Please, vomit. We're going into the room with loads of dogs. Loads of dogs. Morning mate. Hello gorgeous. Actually we'd probably better not come in here because there's dogs recovering. We'll go into the other ward.

There's all these dogs in here. It's really lovely here, Noel though, because it feels... Sorry, mate. It's very, um... I know you don't call them kennels either, do you? But it feels... No, it feels very homely, if that makes sense. Yeah.

And they don't get as distressed as they would with bars. Yeah. So we have Perspex screens and we don't have any bars. We don't have any bars and they have radio in there and the corner kennels have... I love this place. It's so lovely. The corner cows have television. So yeah, they just write on the door what's happening that day. And they've put little notes which I like.

Oh, look at the Labrador. Why? Here's a question. Do you ever lose your temper? You seem very good natured person? I don't lose my temper. What, when do you then? There's no, except for frustration with myself.

Well, hello, Laura. Laura, Laura, what is it like being a veterinary nurse? Do you ever get emotionally attached to the patients? Too many times. Oh, really? Yeah. Why? It keeps you up a night.

Really? You think about it on holidays? I can't stop thinking about it. I was in Tenerifee for a week. Really? You do realize that we're on radio, by the way. As long as you're okay with that. This isn't made up.

I just cornered her in a corner and asked her because because the people, the people, The people in greeny blue are the veterinary nurses. So who were you thinking about when you were on holiday? One in particular dog called Robbie McGovern. He's got a survey. Yeah.

Yeah, I was only thinking about him today as well, actually, reading up on this file. How do you both talk, though? I'd just be crying some time all day. Do you just have to park it? No, you find ways of dealing with it. I've taken a page of a note book and just forced myself into the gym. I don't even say a tranquilizer. Yeah.

I mean, I'm very heavily on. Laura, Laura works on my team a lot, so she sees some very challenging cases. And when Laura first came, she was just in bits after most cases. And I found you crying one day, didn't I? We were both crying. Yeah, we were both crying.

I remember that. The truth's coming out. I'm trying to be hard, man. That was on the super bed. That was on air. Was that Bella? Yeah. Right, yeah.

Yeah, we were both in bits. In fact, that dog is in the show, but not in the book. Oh, really? And it's a story of failure, actually. And we tried really, really, really hard. And we used some of the most advanced technology in the world, but we still failed.

And, yeah, that's when it's hardest. When Laura was getting deeply emotional, the difficulty is still making rational decisions in the midst of that emotion and decisions that are in the patient's best interest because you can't ever get so emotionally involved that it sways your judgment because it has to be a decision it's made

in the patient's best interest. best interest and the reason Laura and I were crying on that day was we had to put Bella to sleep and it was heartbreaking but it was the right thing to do because we reached the end of the line in terms of being able to give quality of life so I said to Laura that she has to I think I said to you that you need to find a way to feel that very deeply but at the same time find a coping mechanism so her coping mechanism is now the same as me she goes up and punches a bag in the gym up there yeah yeah do you have a gym here

Yeah, it's up here. That's amazing. So you have the gym. So do you work out? About midnight, yeah. Do you? Yeah. I can see you in here at midnight.

And this is where you get rid of all your... It's good for that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's important to have an outlet, so... Do you ever suffer... I mean, you touched on this a bit in the book, but do you ever suffer from dark thoughts? No, I think that, as I said to Laura, the nurse,

it's really, really important in a very stressful job to be able to still look after yourself and I built this gym so that everybody here has access to it and they can picture me on that bag if they wish and punch it like you do with Frank Skinner. As though. After Saturday mornings in the afternoon you can find me here punching a bag with Frank's face on it.

We should say, Noll was saying how much he loved Frank. I love... I love... Respect him, you said. I actually... Yeah, I'm joking, Frank, because I have massive admiration for you,

and I joke about my face on the bag as well, because that doesn't actually happen. The nurses tell it to me straight, let me tell you. And I'm sure that Emily tells it to you straight as well. What do you... You were saying that... What do you respect about Frank? Well, I think that what's...

Actually, the reason, the most... The biggest reason that I respect Frank is that he's able to access and deliver... liberate very complex subjects through humor and that's kind of akin to what I try to do is to access really complex medical and scientific subjects through compassion and love and I think if you can access it through people's hearts it's much easier than to access through their minds so if he's using humor to self-deprecate or to just throw a quip at something then immediately you're interested so he then can give you five reasons that you should be interested

which you didn't know before you were interested. And that's a rare quality, I think, in a broadcaster, and I've listened to him for years. So I'm going to give Emily a hug now, for you. And she's going, even though I'm a bit sweaty, and she's going to bring that back home to you and give you a massive hug from me. You're absolutely right, though.

And I think, you know, I was telling you a piece of sort of romantic advice he'd given me, and I've always remembered it because it's funny. So you store information like that away, and I think that's why, you know, it does remind me, I suppose, of what you're doing. It's kind of the way you communicate difficult information, complex information. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you allude to, you know, the mental challenges of doing that. Yes. I'm sure that Frank and anybody who's been in the public eye for as long as he has will have ups and downs and ins and outs. But just like in medicine, you have to cope with the ups and downs and not take yourself too seriously. Because if you listen too much to the praise or the criticism, ultimately you lose your way.

Treat those two impostors just the same. Well, I think at the end of the day, luckily for me, I've got the dogs to keep me sane and level, and Frank has you. So that's all fair in the world. No, we don't talk about any clients because that's confidential and it's privileged information, but am I right in saying we can say the Queen is a fan?

I will say that. The Queen is a fan. I will leave that to your opinion. I had a question for you as well, which was I spent time in an intensive care unit, a human one, and I remember one of the consultants said to me, he said, people always talk about living in the now, but they never do. He said, this is the only place where you ever do it. And I thought that, and I all stayed with me that. He said, because you say, how are they today? How is this happening? You don't talk about yesterday or tomorrow. And I think, do you think that gives you working in this environment all the time?

a sort of Carpe Diem approach to life. Yeah, it gives you a perspective on what's important and what isn't because we know that we're all passing through and... Are you frightened of dying? Not at all. Come with me and I'll show you the end. Wow. And other things I never expected to see today. So I'm probably going to end my career... down there as offices. So this is the new building. When you say I'll show you the end, do you mean... where you plan to die. Hopefully. I told them not to stop the operation by the way. Just carry on.

I'll have you trained well enough by then to just carry on without me. Wheel me over to the corner. And then I'm going to suspend my body face down with moving eyeballs and a recorded voice that if they flip a switch or say the wrong thing during surgery, I go, what are you doing? So you want to die doing what you love, which is in there. Operating. That's where you're going to die. There's my passing away. Really? So welcome to the end and the beginning, the alpha and the omega.

Morning Mark. People don't seem scared of you here. You know not when the boss comes around. Charlie, are you scared of me? Good job. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. This is the doggy pool, and this is for their rehabilitation.

In fact, this is the happiest place in the practice. because every animal in here is recovering. Yeah. Do you ever go in here? You're not allowed in because you might get poo in your mouth. So you've got to be careful with that. So only certified people who are certified not to eat poo, coprophagia is not allowed in there.

They have t-shirts that says, I am not coprophagy. Back in Nod's office, we're going to finish the chat now. I want to say it's been an incredible experience. I just can't believe what it's like here, and Noel is quite an extraordinary person, I have to say. And everything you see on SuperVet, you just have an aura. He's with Kira at the moment, who should say is named after Kira Knightley, because Noel is a fan.

She's having a lick on the nose there. It's all good. Give that to Frank Skinner as well. Quite smelly she is. It's a lovely way. She doesn't mind. In fact, she'd prefer if you smell too. Are you ready to smile, Kira?

Bye SuperVet. We love you and you're changing the world and you're a good person. I really hope you enjoyed listening to that. And do remember to rate, review and subscribe on iTunes.