Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Olly Smith (Part One)

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

This week Emily and Ray head to the Sussex countryside for a stroll with wine expert, author and Saturday Kitchen favourite Olly Smith, alongside his adorable dog Busby.You’ll likely know Olly from his regular appearances on BBC One’s Saturday Kitchen, as well as shows like House of Games and The Wheel. But beyond the screen, he’s had a fascinating journey, from growing up in Jersey to singing as a chorister at King’s College, Cambridge, and discovering his love of wine while working at a local merchant’s.On the walk, Olly chats to Emily about his early career as a TV and film writer, including working on Charlie and Lola and even Pingu, before finding his true calling in wine. They also talk about his brand new crime novel Death by Noir, a brilliantly funny and fast-paced mystery set in the world of wine. It’s out this June and available to pre-order now from all major booksellers. Links can be found on Olly's website. Warm, funny and full of life, Olly is exactly the kind of person you instantly feel better for spending time with, and Busby more than holds his own alongside Ray.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The first time it happened to me, honestly, I felt like my whole soul had vanished through a trap door in my mind. I was just a free fall of ecstasy for days. This week on Walking the Dog, Ray and I travelled to the Sussex countryside to take a stroll with wine expert, Saturday Kitchen Regular and author Ollie Smith and his adorable dog, Busby. So Ollie and I had recently been at the same wedding. By the way, he had on the most fabulous Harcum's But I was way too shy to go over and say hello, so I could not have been more thrilled when he agreed to come for a walk with us. And yes, I won't lie. Getting to meet Busby did seal the deal. You'll probably know Ollie best for his role as the wine expert on BBC One Saturday Kitchen, along with appearances on everything from House of Games to the Wheel, but he's also had a really fascinating life.

And we talked about all of it from his childhood growing up in Jersey, his exceptional singing voice, he was a chorister at King's College, Cambridge, and his job working at a wine merchants, which really kick-started his passion for wine. We also talked about the years he spent as a TV and film writer, writing episodes of Charlie and Lola, and most magnificently of all, Pingu. Talking of writing, Ollie has just written his very first crime novel, Death by Noir, and it centres around the fabulously eccentric owner of a wine shop who finds himself the prime suspect of a murder, so sets about cracking the case to find out who done it. It's a brilliantly written, very funny page turner, filled with fantastic characters, so I really recommend it.

It's out in June, but you can pre-order your copy now from Amazon and all other major booksellers. Ray and I absolutely loved our walk with Ollie and Busby. Ollie is famously adored in the entertainment industry. Everyone seems to love him, including Gary Barlow, who's one of his good pals. So I'm a little bit jelly-pour. bags of you, Gary Barlow, but I can totally see why, because he has this sort of infectious enthusiasm for life. He's the closest I've ever come to meeting the character Joy from inside out. He's also got one of the cutest dogs I've ever met. So Ray and I have decided to move in with Ollie and his family with immediate effect. Just FYI, Olly, Ray favours Egyptian cotton sheets.

I hope you won't disappoint him. Really hope you enjoy our walk. Here's Olly and Bazby. and Ray Ray. Right, come on then. We're going for a walk. I'm so excited to be going for a walk. Dog walking and you are two of my favourite things. Ollie, look at this. What do you think of Raymond? I'm deeply in love with Raymond. Raymond is without doubt the most handsome person I've ever met in real life. And apart from anything else, you know, people to... Who's the second most? Because you've met... Well, I was going to say people talk about Tom Cruise running. Raymond walking. That's what I'm talking about. That's the real energy. Look and look at him. Oh my goodness me.

He's a bit jellybags. I think he could be a bit jelly bags. Well, quite rightly too, if he's going to be jellybags of anyone. He's got a little tail wag, though. Is that a good sign? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that means he loves you. Should we go to the... Oh, it's an ice cream truck.

It doesn't say coffees. We want a coffee. Well, there might be a coffee further on at the pink pit stop, but it's quite a long way. Well, it's not a long way. Well, that's all right. If you're not up for it, I am. I'm always up for everything.

Unless they do coffee, do it. Should we ask them? Why don't we ask them? It's the Purbeck. We'll advertise them. Herbeck Ice Cream Company. It's all right. Hello.

Is there anyone home? Oh, this is the beginning of a ghost story. This is the Mary Celeste of Ice Cream trucks. Oh, God. She gave me a shock. There's me announcing... There's no coffee. Let's walk down to the other place.

Well, if the pink pit stop is there, we will avail ourselves of also named Emily's rather splendid coffee. Oh, I love her. But she might be a bit busy having a baby at the moment. She's quite heavily pregnant, so we'll see. People are so inconsiderable. I know, it's unbelievable. The timing of these things. I mean, really. Really. Oh my God, Ollie, look at this view.

Yeah, so Ditchling Beacon, where we are, is a, this is the beginning of a walk that I've done every week for seven years with Dave Lamb, the voice have come down with me, my dear friends. So I slightly feel like I'm cheating on him today. Dave, I'm really sorry, but I'm a huge admirer of your work. He's lovely. Thank you for letting me borrow, Ollie. And I love the views from here. I think something about doing the same walk every week for many, many years. You know, it becomes very familiar.

We've got the Amex Stadium over to the south and to the north. We've got about, I don't know, three or four vineyards within view. I prefer the vineyards to the Amec Stadium, to be honest, Ollie. I'm with you on that. I think the, should we cross? Let's come on, Raymond. We're in the country now. They drive past here.

Come on. What does Raymond feel about the countryside? Do you know he likes it? Yeah. But I think he, I think I know why you're asking that, Ollie, because you're thinking, is he set up? cope here. I think it's off-roading. That's what we're doing. I mean, he's, oh my gosh, look at him. You know what? I actually can't get over him. I kind of want to be him. Is that wrong? Is that

okay? I want his hair. I want his mojo. I want his gait. Do you know what? I love about him is there's a quiet dignity to him. Yes. Don't you think? Totally agree. There's a serenity and equanimity. There's a Zen-like acceptance of all beings and all things. He's basically one of those pensioners, which we'll talk about, because you have a few of those in your brilliant book, which I've just torn through. I loved it. Oh, thank you. But he's one of those pensioners who's kind of, I'm going to do me. Oops, there you go, dear boy. You deal with the gates, Ollie. This is your sort of thing.

This is my manner. Please come in. Welcome to the Room of Dreams, also known as the South Downs Way. This is so beautiful. Ray, look at those. Those are cows over there. I'm going to release you now, Buzzbee. Yes, I might release. Oh, heaven's. Hello, darling. We're going to let Ray down. Come on, let Ray down. Good boy. Good boy. You two get to know each other. Come on.

There's so many smells up here, Redmond. Do you know what? Busby is already sort of letting, I mean his soul is being, he is singing openly here. He's a free soul. He's a free soul. He's definitely free soul. Look, he will stick with us. Will he stick religiously alongside?

Well I tell you what, because he's a Shih Tzu and they were bred to be sort of royal palace dogs. in Imperial China. So he's an emperor's dog. So what he will do is just he follows the successful wealthy, which is why he's the big dog in this operation. He really is. Well, Buzzy is an enormous mix of various different doggies. He came from a litter that they were all so individual.

He sort of looks a bit like a rangy border terrier with sort of giraffey legs and an underbite and his brothers and sisters looked I mean one of them looked like an owl another one looked like a kind of sheep dog crossed with a dragon and another one just like look like Rocky Balboa but with sort of ginger eyebrows so it was a really mixed litter and Buzzy was just we just fell in love as soon as we met and I'd visited a lot of litters as you do but I've always believed you sort of know when you know and it I couldn't ever be parted from Busby. He was just an immediate face-licking sweetheart of mine.

He's absolutely adorable. He's good fun. And so talk me through with Busby, was that sort of... Have you always been a dog person? I have. So I'd had a border terrier called Barney for, oh wow, Raymond, the stately gate. But this is the way to walk at your own pace in life. pace in life. You do you, Raymond.

Come on, Ray. You can do it. Show all you how you run. Good boy. Oh my goodness. Come on Ray. I've never got on my knees before to worship a dog and this is actually happening in real life. Oh my God. Well done. You're such a good boy. You're so cute. You're so adorable. Oh my goodness and you're so soft.

What can I smell, Ray? Oh no, you don't want to do that. No, it smells amazing. Seriously. Listen, I've spent my whole life smelling things for a living and this is one of the best smells I've ever. Yes. smelt. What do you bathe Ray in? Ray what a review. Honestly. I can sort of, I'm going to have to go back in for another niff. Ray, I'm just going to do a little smell test on you darling. So what I'm getting, hang on, from aromas, I'm getting a little touch of celery and,

oh yeah, there's a bit of salt in there, a sea breeze and I think that might have been from the lick, but oh, there's a sweetness. It's almost as though Venus herself blew a bubble, a bubble gum, and it popped and the fragrance from within was released. That is what you smell like. Give us a kiss. Oh, you are so adorable. I'm never going to let you get in. Oh, don't go near his bar, Molly. You won't like that smell. Oh, hang on a sec. Yes, that's a little more Ronald McDonald, I'd say. Yes, a jazz smell.

Not quite sure about that. That's my favourite video I've ever done. Well, hurrah! Buzzy, do you think you need something? Yes, you do. You're sitting down. Got you a little treat? I've got him a little something in here. Does he know what treat is? He does, look.

Always the sound of a treat and a poo bag. Nothing more appetising in this world. Look at him. He sort of looks a bit like Basil Brush when he eats. Sort of that jolly. I'm not sure what his accent would be if he spoke. I've always thought him as being sort of aggressively friendly. So maybe sort of Glasgowede or something.

Yes, it's the very sweet. Look at him. He's got that, oh, the little underbite. I love his grin. I love his little grin. I can see why you just fell in love. Yeah, instant love. And he gets on, we've got lots of animals in the house,

we've got many cats and a lizard called Chimmychanga. And he gets on with absolutely all of them. He's a friend to all beings. Well, he's been very sweet with Raymond, because Raymond can be a bit scared of some dogs. Really? He's all right with them. I think his thing is sometimes dogs,

he's fine with certain dogs. Like Labradors are great because they're smart. Yeah. And they sort of board collies or something. Yeah. They sort of look at him and they're like, okay, I'm not going to play with you. that's a waste of time with sort of a different species.

But they understand. Whereas I think those mid-sized dogs, it can be trickier with like cockapooze and they're a bit enthusiastic. They can be. Premier League footballer on a night out. Yes. You know, they have to be sort of rained in a bit. I think dogs that feel super comfy in their own skin are the best.

I had a board of terrier for 15 years called Barney, who was the predecessor to Busby. Yeah. And he was a total gent who's the sort of person. that you know he's always sort of carrying an imaginary cricket bat and medals he's just a very sort of sedate yet respectful kind authoritative individual I could walk him off the lead around sheep any kind of creature he was just very peaceful and when he went it was it was really tricky actually it was because

I'm a naturally glass half full sort of person I felt such an extraordinary amount of grief remember I went out for lunch with my brother Will not long afterwards. And when was this, Ollie? This was held Buzz. Buzz about eight, so this was probably eight, nine years ago. Right. And Will took me out for lunch and he just looked at me and said, you're no good without a dog. Oh, I don't know, that's making me cry. That's actually making me cry. I think he was right. I think, um, Buzzie, come here. Sorry about that. Hello. Just some, making friends with some cyclists. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I knew the truth of that immediately and went home and said to Sophie, my wife, look, I really would love to get another dog.

And this is not some kind of knee jerk. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. And the search began. And then, yeah, a few months later, I found him. And I was so pleased to meet him. Oh, I'm so pleased to meet him. I'm so pleased to meet you. And I want to know, you've had, well, we're going to talk about your brilliant book. I'll get this out the way first. Yes. Because I hate it when they do the whole interview or just do a large part of it. And you're all thinking, did you like the book? So I think you need to reassure someone when you genuinely love it. Oh, that's very kind. It's so great.

Honestly, well, I can't wait to talk to you about it. And it's called... Death by Noir. Death by Noir. And it's set here where we're walking. The actual imaginary vineyard is just over the brow of this hill. Oh, I can't wait to see it. Yeah, yeah, it's all here.

Well, we're going to get onto that and I have to say, I had no idea. I was so shocked at the murderer. Oh, yes. I still can't believe it. I know, right? It really wrong fitted me. I got it all wrong. Yeah.

I don't want to give too much a word. No, well, yes, there's a lot of red herrings. Yes, you're with them. You bastard. I know. I'm really sorry. And they're all quite plausible red herrings. Yeah, I won't say who Prue Leith thought it was.

I was working with her because that might give it a way as well. So I'm not going to say. But we will talk about it because I want to get a proper chat. But firstly, Polly Smith, I want to go back to your childhood. Yes. Because I feel like you spent a lot of your childhoods. growing up was it Jersey? Yeah I was born in Darlington in County Durham. Mum was a nurse, dad was a teacher and... Oh I love them already. They were so nice honestly because they were

they were sort of devoted to helping other people and very much felt like Will and I were blessed in that regard. That's your brother Will. Will Smith yeah who yeah he's the show runner on slow horses and he's I think he works with my good friend Mawena. He does. Yeah he does and he's he was it was wonderful growing up in that environment because mum and dad I knew we were a bit sort of not, I don't know how to put it, not strange, but just what we would do is go to the cinema on a Saturday, come home, immediately write down all scripts and then reenact it and produce it on a Sunday. Really? Yeah, we would memorize Time Bandits, Condor Man, whatever was on and that was our kind of world and we would act it out and constantly live in that sort of slightly parallel way and they just let us do it. Why do you think you were both like that though? Because I can understand, I mean me and my sister used to do.

plays but that's because my mum was an actor my dad works in TV and we were sort of forced really my dad was so you have to go and entertain the guests and devise a comic 20-minute comic play and we don't want to do the plays but that's it's really interesting that you didn't have parents in the industry and yeah where do you think that came I think it was I think there was always a kind of I suppose there was a slightly performative thing in that you know dad was a musician and a music teacher so there was that but I think it was more like wherever we found ourselves, whether it was staying with my Granny in Bournemouth in the summer holidays or

Granny in Scotland's, you know, in the other times we were there, they would just literally leave us to it in the nicest possible way. You know, Granny in Bournemouth would take us to the beach, granny in Scotland, you know, out in the garden. And we would just invent things constantly. And I think it was because we were probably a bit isolated. Just the two of us. I tell you, no, I've worked out what it was. I know exactly what it is. It's because my parents, now you have to think of us as being a bit Laurel and Hardy when we were little. Will was very tall and rangy and I was quite round like a bean. And I think... I thought I was that one.

Yeah, the dumpy one. I... Well, you're not any longer. You're lovely. No, but as a kid, when I look at pictures, and my sister looks like a Victoria's Secret model. She's like blonde and will and then there's like me... Dada, and someone's all getting a trot-bob.

Yeah, I'm that. Little timpony playing, the Impart band behind me. So, but my parents dressed us in identical clothes. Oh, so cruel. It was so cruel and we had pudding basin haircuts to match. So we were always in blue checked shirts and blue corduroy trousers and it's for this reason that nobody spoke to us until long into our teenage years and we only had one another. I think I only thought Will existed until I was about 25.

I mean I had no idea there were other people. So I think we were flung together in quite a rarefied way and we moved to the channel owners to Jersey and... I've never been there. It's really nice. What's it like to grow up there? Well it's very safe. and there's lovely beaches and it was a weird one because mum and dad was sort of imported.

They needed a nurse and a teacher at the same time. So they were sort of the workers to go and teach in the schools and, you know, work on the districts. But I think as soon as you think, oh, you know, they moved to Jersey, it sounds like we had this enormous pile and we're, you know. I won't lie, I did think that. Yeah, no, it wasn't like that. It was really, you know. I think Jersey and obviously, I don't even need to say what I think. Yeah, people running away from tax and.

God knows what else. But in our case, genuinely not. It was for work. They were kind of looking for jobs and it was obviously a lovely place to be and I think really I own my career in many ways to growing up there. It was my Saturday jobs began with kind of working in chocolate shops and I used to work on the potato farms and, you know, the Tyraq and I got a real kind of sense of industry and then I got my first job in wine when I was about 15, 16, delivering boxes from a wine shop there. So it was Orange and Company Vintners and I loved it. I just thought nobody really we didn't grow up with wine in the house it was always you know your dad liked Heineken you know how did you know that you're good Did you just extract that from my brain? Witchcraft I'm a bit creepy on I will I know things I think you're totally intriguing now

I mean I was in love with Raymond when I said out look on my brain and give me another niff come on darling give it up Can you just make sure it's absolutely clear, Ollie's talking about Raymond? Yeah, I am sniffing the dog. He does smell good, though. Oh, Ollie, that's made my name. Anyway, how did you know that my dad liked a tini of Arnicon? Witchcraft. Do you know, if I was a girl, by the way, I was going to be called Emily.

Really? Yes, and I had a cat called Emily for years. Oh, I love her. And she got to the age of 20, and then she went a bit blind and used to sort of sit in a worshipful position in the middle of the floor. You had to just tread over her. She was like a living sacred. Oh, elderly cow.

That's what I was fine towards. Emily was great. Anyway. Well. But yes, he liked Hynaquin, but not wine. It was, because wine was putting it, you know, it was for another class. A person in those days. It wasn't in the supermarket.

So, well, your family, would you have considered yourself? We're middle class. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But we were not. Not sort of liberal elites or. Well. Do you know what I mean? No, I mean, you know, they were.

Were there like, but there were books in your house, were there? And were there conversations? I mean, not, mum and dad didn't read. No, Will and I did. We had books. That's so interesting. Yeah. They do read a bit now. Yeah. But no, there wasn't, it wasn't like that.

There was a lot of music. My dad would always play music. We loved kind of easy listening, like Bert Campfort and wonderful orchestral kind of groovy things like that. So we got a pretty wide musical education. But no, in terms of, I remember, you know, learning French, I learned French at school and I loved it. And I remember it was quite a, I remember my mum made some remark

when I was growing up, but it was clearly a big deal for her that I was speaking a different language and it was it was something something different you know just yeah interesting where your kind of natural abilience and enthusiasm and warmth were you always like that as a kid I I think so yeah I think I was always slightly maybe I'd have to ask my my family really but I think I was probably quite noisy I loved singing and I still do I sing every morning to my lovely wife I make up a little song about how much I love her in in what regard and then usually ask her to marry me again at which point she says why are you doing

this in my face get off or something similar see that's making me cry oh men are a pals a lorley anything makes me cry but I love her I love her I love a husband showing love to his I just love her I met I was very lucky to meet Sophie when I was 17 she was 16 you were very lucky I've seen yes yes she's nice isn't she I mean she's she's gorgeous but she's just you know as I said to you in the car park I always feel like she's she's the better version of of what I'd love to be just a lovely lovely human and so would you say you sounds like you were quite a happy kid yeah I was popular at school no I wouldn't

say that and I was in the younger years and then I I won a music scholarship to go and sing at King's College Cambridge as a chorister which changed everything so I left at the age of 10 and my it was really difficult living to be honest at boarding school I didn't find that very, very lovely. Why? It was just really quite lonely and it's a bit Lord of the Flies and there's lots of big kids trying to sort of enforce their sort of ways and some of the teaching staff were a little bit rogue. Did it feel different to you because you were sort of there under, you know, because your parents weren't phenomenally wealthy, I suppose and you were like a more of a scholarship kid. I was a scholarship kid and then went, yeah, you're right, that was true.

And I went so, I got a music scholarship again to go to another school, which was a public school. And again, I felt, I did feel like a total outsider because I had no hinterland. We didn't go, you know, we didn't go skiing. Yeah, we didn't go the Caribbean, all of that. And I just didn't have the same wherewithal to sort of live. So I think that's where I sort of learned to live on my wits.

And I realized that, I realized that I loved music and I loved the theater. And I immersed myself in all the things that brought me some joy. And it turned out that sometimes that would be transmitted to the audience so I thought well this is what I want to do with my life I want to but it's interesting Ollie that you because I understand that feeling because my parents were sort of very I suppose artsy Bohemian your classic Bohemian TV arts have it lots of books lots of sort of sort of people that

we'd have at these dinner parties just you know foreign correspondence philosophers all these kind of but they didn't have much money you know they were kind of nubo pauver if you like and what's interesting is we went to private school and I did feel exactly like you. I was aware that they all went skiing. Yeah. My dad spent all our money on first editions and Pate from Fortland Mason. I kind of love your dad. Black cabs. They just didn't understand like why would you buy a nice car, the car was a wreck, you know. And so I was, but I felt shame over that. Right. Right. I felt God why can't

they just be normal and be like these other people and now I feel oh God my parents were right. They had the right values. Yeah, they were lovely. Sounds like they were absolutely. I'm just interested that I don't think you felt, it doesn't sound like you felt less than because you were in an environment with sort of more privileged people. Yeah, I made, basically, I made really close relationships with other individuals who also were keen to find a way in life that was probably, you know, on the more creative, the arty sides. And, you know, it was the art students, it was the language students, it was all of the people

in the kind of theatre and in the music department. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of kings and queens and... Yeah. Yeah, it really is. And it was a... Did you have anyone who's like prominent from your time there?

Oh, that's a great question. Prominent from my time. To be honest, I haven't kept in touch with very many of them, obviously, so for being the notable exception. They're probably all spies. You probably wouldn't get... Well, you know, you say that, but I'm not going to say a name. But I do have one friend who's... He lived the most mysterious life.

and now is just a very mysterious individual. I'm fairly confident there was some sort of spying going on, but I shouldn't say more than that to, yes, protect. What's going on? There's a standoff. They're staring at it. It's like the, it's like sort of, yes, they've decided to, oh, I know what this is. What is it? This is Busby hoping to be chased.

Oh, there you are. There we go. That's it. That's what he's asking for. That's never going to happen with this old man. He's requesting, that's his, what we call agging. Ag, ag, ag. He wants to have a little ag, but it's not going to happen. Buzzie, I'm so sorry.

He doesn't do chasing. He's a palace dog. He's just never going to do that. He's a very different... Do you want me to try and chase you? I'm faster than I look. Busby, he doesn't do chasing, he's very different to you. Oh, Fusby. Oh, I chase you.

Oh darling, he won't do chasing. You come with us. Come on, walk with us. Come on. Yeah, there we go. Come on, Raymond, you can do it. This is quite a long way already for Raymond. realised. I know, but it's all right I carry him for some of it. Do you want me to carry you? Come on. I thought she was talking to me for a minute. I mean yes, fine. Come on. Oh, Busby, you're not being carried for it's all right. No way, no way. So go on. So you're, um, I know I don't think

there was anyone particularly noticeable that I can think of that's in the public eye or anything like that. Um, did you think at that point you might become a professional sort of classical singer. Yeah, I thought I'd be a musician for a long time and then it was it was all the theatre because I loved being part of that and acting was the thing I actually thought I'd probably go into. Yeah. And then I met because I was not, I wouldn't say it was very popular in the first kind of three years. It was just boys and then the girls arrived and everything changed because I mean, I felt like I'd come home, people who I could relate to, have normal conversations with. What you mean with the girls? Yeah, with the girls. Yeah. And I remember a lot of the boys sort of sort of saying,

how are you doing that? What's going on? I'm like, well, when did you begin? I mean... I'm quite nice to them. Yeah, and I just felt... I felt like it all began. And I... Yeah, that's where I really thought, yeah, do you know what? I'm going to... I'd love to be part of things and part of a society and contribute. Rather than just keep sort of squirrelling away and trying desperately to find things to keep myself occupied. And so after Charter House... Yes.

Did you, you went, well, was it during this time then when you were back from holidays that you started doing sort of Saturday jobs? Exactly that. All that time I would work in Orange and Company Vintners and I loved it. I loved the sort of mystery of the boxes. Can you hear the Skylarks by the way? It's so long. Aren't they great?

It's so peaceful up here. Yeah. Yeah, so you're working in the wine. Working in a wine shop. But that's interesting. Would you say your parents, did they instill a bit of a work ethic in you and your brother? Massively. So Will and I always had jobs. Really? What did they say? Did they say, right, you're going to have to work?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember when I went to uni, because I was an overseas student, I remember I had to pay fees, and I arrived not knowing this. Because you were from Jersey. Yeah, and then I'd got a job in Edinburgh working at the Cameo Cinema and the International Office at the uni to pay for those fees. Because you went to University of Edinburgh, yeah. And it wasn't coming from anywhere else, and I just thought, well, I've got to do it. So, yeah, they definitely instilled that. And one of the jobs, I remember Will and and I both did.

We worked for the Social Security Department in Jersey's pensions unit. What was that like? Well, we were in basically a windowless office for two blissful months of the summer. Was it the true of you? No, he did it one year and I did it the next. And it was literally, I kid you not, our job was to stamp a booklet, remove it, stamp a booklet, we did that for weeks and weeks. And it was just, when I did it, it was the peachiest summer. And all my handsome friends were out on the beach, having the time of their lives.

And I was just getting paler and paler, staring. at these booklets stamping the numbers. I think it was like £76 something. I can remember it. God, I can hear the noise. But probably not realising when you were doing that, the tan fades, but the work ethic doesn't. Correct. And I wouldn't change it for all the world because that's the stuff that I, it's definitely made us kind of enjoy what we do. Well you know, I think us be found a friend there. Yeah, he does that. I think I realized looking back the jobs that I honestly learnt the most from yeah were things like working in the gap you know Tyraq did the Tyrax how was Tyraq I got poked on an umbrella by I think it was

another staff member actually was it Lord Hawth I wasn't I wasn't very good I wasn't very good to be honest I was much better at delivering boxes of wine but working in the gap you see that's exactly I think anybody who's done a customer facing role in life that's it is you're already winning and hospitality just the people who work in hospitality of absolute heroes. Yeah. And once you've done it and you've been on the receiving end of what people can be like, you know, because you hope everyone's going to be lovely, but you'll always have a moment. You learn to deal with challenging situations. I think it also teaches you so much, like you say, it teaches you about also kind of problem solving. Yeah, totally. And it's really

interesting. When I look back on those sort of jobs I did, how I probably learned more from those than any other job. Interesting. Look at this dog. Is that a board of a place? Oh, hello. Looks like, hello. Hello you. That is the cute dog is adorable. I've never seen such a cute dog in my life. Look at that. He's a blue male collie.

Blue Mel Coley. He's absolutely gorgeous. He's almost striking eyes. My sister-in-law lived near Bancerville, so he comes in like more seven. Oh. Yeah, but I think there is a breeze around here. I live in Hastings, Noble.

He's got the Game of Thrones eyes. Well, the eyes of Paul Hollywood. No. I'd watch that film. Yeah. Hello, sweetheart. Oh my God, I'm obsessed. Hello, Frankie.

Hi, nice to meet you. You are beautiful. Frankie. Frankie, you're so handsome. Sweet. This is called Raymond. Hello, Raymond. Do you think Raymond would get on with Frankie?

Maybe not. Maybe we won't put you down. He's not so good with little dogs. Frankie, you might think Raymond's lunch. We don't want that. I doubt he would, but he's so sweet. He's not really interesting dogs. likes his ball and he loves people.

Is he old? Yeah. He's in hell. He's nine. He's amazing for nine. It's not too bad for nine. People keep saying, do you think you'll get another one? I said, well, I wouldn't just get, you know, say, well, my husband's getting on, I better get a new one.

Oh, sweet. Do you know what I mean? It's a bit weird when people say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, my husband did die and people do, and people, when I was 58, so six years ago. I'm so sorry to hear that. And people say that to me. Are you going to go online?

I'm like, no. Yeah. Why would I want to go online and meet some weirdos? Because they're always, aren't man? It's scary. I'm with you. I'm with you. This is a nice one here.

Yeah. Yeah. Come on. It's so nice to meet you. Very nice to meet you indeed. Have a great walk. Bye, Frankie. Bye.

Yeah, little Busby. See, that's why dogs are the greatest thing in the world. They, you know, very much like wine, actually. do brings closer together you share a bottle of wine you know you you kind of enrich your connections don't are the same i i could i could will was right i would i am no good without a dog yeah and it's absolutely true i love that because you get you know like that one we were chatting to just now yeah even that if you'd have just been walking far you know you walk past people you know nothing about their story yeah and then she's revealing stuff about her life you know you know

yeah we're family effectively because we're part of the same yeah yeah yeah yeah It's so not. Well, it helps with you, I think. Because I think, yeah, I think it's an energy you give off. And I think I'm quite happy to talk to people. Yes, I think you are. And so I think you welcome that in. I think there are some people certainly doing this podcast for as long as I have, and they just say, oh, I find that bit when you stop and talk to people really stressful and weird and I hate it.

Yeah. I know, I love that bit. I think that's the kind of rogue quality street moment where you're just not looking at what you're unwrapping. Goodness me, it tastes amazing. What a surprise. Turns out I do love Montlimar. I knew it. But you're naturally very gregarious and I get the impression you're someone who gets your energy from connecting with people, aren't you? A bit of both. I definitely do and I also love being in my own company. I love nature very much. I'm pretty much obsessed with biodiversity and gardening and yeah, poetry and singing and yeah. A bit of both.

Will describe me once as being monkish and gregarious, and I think that's pretty much bang on. So as long as I get the balance about right. You're like the monk who broke bad. Oh, I like that. Yeah. I did once meet a monk in, oh no, I was going to say the name of the abbey, but then I realised they'd be outing this monk.

Brother Mungo at a certain abbey who used to come and smoke cigarettes with all the visitors. He broke bad. That was him. Mungo, he was a total dude. If he's listening, he knows exactly who he is. Rungo, if you're listening, call me. Yeah, Mungo. He was like, you might be available.

Like a holy renegade, perfect. Oh, he was a, it was a total dude. You mentioned Will a lot and I really love it that. Yeah, I love him. I feel like, and I had this, sadly, she's no longer with us, but with my sister, we had that thing of, it was like she was my person. Yeah. And I get the feeling with Will you have a similar thing that a lot of people have siblings,

but in adult life, they're just sort of, they talk about them. Oh, well, I had this brother and we see each other at Christmas. but this feels like a very defining relationship for you. It's the part of my family, my wife and my kids, it's the, it's the relationship for me. It's, um, we're constantly in touch and sharing ideas and meeting up whenever we can. But I feel, uh, as though I have a twin really more than anything. And he's, he's an, I love him for various reasons. I think he's an exceptional kind of moral compass, which I respect enormously. He's, he is very creative, but he wears it very lightly. You know, he, he, he won an

Emmy for writing slow horses last year, which was an incredible achievement. And I went around to sort of visit. And we should say he also wrote the thick of it and VIPA. Yeah, yeah, the thick of it and V. Yeah, all sorts. But I went around to see this Emmy and I'm like, oh, there it is. And then there's another two on the shelf. I'm like, what, what are these for? And he just hadn't told me and hadn't told mum and dad's, well, I mean, maybe he told mum and I have no idea, but he's just very modest. And that stuff isn't important. The work is important to him. His family is important to him he's a very deep thinking considerate individual and yeah i can't really ever express my respect and love for him enough yeah it's a great framing to be on this planet with somebody you

feel very very close with like that i can't imagine what it would be like to lose him i'm so sorry about your sister you know it was really devastating but i think when you've had that what's interesting is it's only since losing her that i'm very aware of how unique that is yeah which is why when i hear it with you that you get siblings you get some people who happen to be siblings. Yeah. And then some people who I think, oh, you were kind of brought to me.

There's something a bit meant here. Like there's a bit more of a twin soul thing going on that. And I think I love it when I hear about it. Yeah. Because it's so, you can just tell. You've got mentionitis with Will. Yeah. And I love that.

It's great. I mean, we're very different in many ways. He didn't really drink anything alcoholic for years. And Nell likes the occasional glass. Oh, yeah. You'll see to that. I know. I feel like I've got that share of both of us in a double yoking way.

But yeah, we do. We have a commonality in a short hand, which is, which I'm very grateful for. It's lovely. So, little Ollie. Oh, yeah, there is. I'm imagining little Ollie as a bit of a cherub. I suppose so. If you look a bit cherub like.

I definitely, oh, yes. I was fair and quite, I had chubby cuffs. You know, you could have nibbled on those probably far too long as well. They usually go when you're about two or three. And very smiley. I was quite smiley. I definitely was smiley and I was, yeah, I was keen on things. And if I was keen on it, I'd do it like it would become like an almost a religion. Like music was absolutely huge for me from the age of sort of eight through to 1819.

And then writing and, yes, screenwriting came in. That's what you decided to, you started writing, didn't you? Yeah. One of the most, one of my favourite things that you did was you worked on Pingu for three series. Yeah, three series. Yeah, I did. I did. I wrote a lot of episodes of Pingu. I loved it because it was like writing silent comedy. Everyone sort of assumes you're only writing dialogue when you write a script, but actually, in the case of animation, you're writing literally everything that you see on screen.

Yes. And in Pingu's case, we did actually write the dialogue because then the voice artist would know, would have... Is it Italian or something? It was kind of, yeah, it was kind of Italian, a bit Czech, and it was a very unique... Penguins. Penguins. That's what they called it, yeah. And they would... And when you watch it, which I do, because I love, like, I love Bluey. I really like watching things. I just find it amusing. I love watching kids' shows. Yeah, I do.

And what's fabulous about Pingua is that you now get the captions. If you have the captions on it says, angry penguins, tearful penguins. I didn't know that. Yeah, because that's exactly what we would do. We would write the line because it would emote. So if Pingu was about to put his flipper in a boiling pan, his father would shout, stop, you know,

and naughty. What he'd actually go. I know, I know. What I know what I know. Nook, nook and all of that. But yeah, it was a joy to write. right. It felt like, because I loved Laurel and Hardy growing up, watched a lot of that, and it felt like it was an opportunity to write quite simple storytelling, but with, with

consequences, like the one of most proud I was, Pingu gets lost. And I do have a lot of people who talked to me about this episode, because it was, we discussed it a lot because it's the, it's the one where probably it's the darkest of all of them, where he's, Pinga has knitted, and no, his father's knitted him a jumper. And they're basically, he keeps going off. And they're like, if you keep going off, you're going to get lost. And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And he gets lost in this massive ice cave and there's a very kind of tragic moment deep in the cave where he realises he's all alone and it's very Samuel Beckett yeah I guess and he finds his way out by because of course a snag of his jumper has caught on a nice piece of ice at the entrance and he manages to

Ariadne's thread his way out of it right and yeah he sort of gets himself out of jail but it's yeah I think that Charlie and Lola I really enjoyed writing as well for similar reasons because Oh gosh, Busby. Buzzy, come here. Come here. Buzz, come on. Here you are. It's all right, darling. There you are. They're friends, Busby. Yeah, they're chums, Buzz. They're lovely friends. Hello. Oh, I see. We're just meeting a dog on the lead. Hello, dogie.

Hello, doggy. Hello. Oh, so sweet. It's all right, Buzz. He's looking after us. He is looking after us. He got spooked by the dog on the lead. Pingu? Yes, Pingu. Did they used to, when you were writing, because I see what you're saying, you're obviously sort of crafting, I can see that, like the emotional beats and, you know, quite detailed in some ways as well, because you're plotting the whole thing.

Yeah. How would the kind of, is it stop motion animation? It was, yes, it was, correct. How pissed off would they get if they pick up a script to me, Pingu starts doing elaborate, keepy up-upies? Oh yeah, oh yeah. I did the Pingo in the toy shop and in that... I love Pingu in the toy shop.

Have you seen it? Yeah, this is one of my favourite ones. He destroys the whole toy shop. Well, exactly. Can you imagine? And the man who works like it's so upset and he goes, and I wrote all of those bits that go... He knocked over the cactus stores. All of that. How do you remember this stuff?

I love Pingu. My goodness me. You're the first person I've ever met is actually cited Pingu an individual episode. This is amazing. I have it on because Ray finds kids TV really calming. This is another thing I find out of about my king and lord. Hello. I do worship you, dear boy.

Do you want to come and live with me? You can come and see Chimichanga the lizard. You're so wise. Look at your face. David Badele said, called Ray an intellectual. I think that's right. I think Badele has nailed it.

I think he is an intellectual. I could see him sitting in a chair, Melvin Bragg, beat your heart out. You know, South Bank Show. You need a new host. We've got one. But you know, that's why I play lots of things like Bluey and stuff,

because he finds it very calming. It's really interesting. Because I think Kids TV is designed to make children kind of quite soothing for children. And I asked Chatchip-T this once. I said, why does my dog really love Kids TV? And it was sort of saying that. It was saying because everything, like even with Disney films, it's aimed at children. Yeah.

And dogs will respond, they're very sensitive to sound. Yeah. What about In the Nightgarden? Do you watch that? Oh, I love In The Nightgarden. I love it. I love Jacobi's narration. Yeah.

The Ponty pines. Did your kids like that one? They did and I would love watching it with them. And I think those are the really magical books and tele moments that we share with intergenerationally. I think that's something truly awesome about that. You know, if your granny's watching it, you're watching it and your kids are watching it. That's, it doesn't get me better really. And introducing, there are shows that with my late sister, her kids.

Showing them all the things that we used to watch is the best. So Pingo in the toy shop, one of the classics. I mean, that's my Shawshank Redemption. Oh, my goodness me. But anyway, I remember it well. He knocks over. Yeah, he knocks everything over. And she goes mad.

It's an eye man. Yeah, there's a rocket in it or something. There's something that flies, I can't remember. But it was hard to animate that. Yeah. Because everything's falling and things are going everywhere. I remember there was another one. one where I can't remember which one it was. Pingue finishes the job and he gets his flip. Do you really?

I wrote that? I think I've seen that. He gets his flipper stuck in a paint toolbox. Toolbox. Yeah. And again, grandpa's going, oh, you know, and it's crazy. And yes, I think the animators probably did think you could have just had him just on a sledge outside just sitting. But no, no, you've given us 50,000 things to do. Thanks. But I love the purity of those stories because we would always ask ourselves questions. I think there were like four questions like whose story is it what do they want what do they stand to lose what's at risk basically and then how do they get to the outcome or something like that but it was. So you have to apply those very serious sort of Robert McKee if you like screenwriting principles.

Totally. Totally. Definitely. Definitely. I think the kind of the thing I'm most proud of about those episodes is that they are complete stories with a beginning, a middle and an end in a matter of minutes. Yeah. And that's it's very I think that I think, do you know what I love and why I honestly, they're so funny. You know, oh, that's very sweet. I just laugh. Like, that's what I like those. It sounds weird, but I just like, it's really funny.

I just think all the characters, the relationship between Robbie the Seale and Pingu reminds me also of the relationship between most comedians I know. Interesting. Which is, it's kind of like there's a basic warmth and respect, but it's like, yeah, but don't be too funny. No, I don't want you to, you don't know clips me. Yes, it's who can be the naughtiest. In their case, it's like they will always egg each other on. Yeah.

And then they'll get in trouble. I agree with you about the sense of joy pingu brings, actually. And I think it's, yeah, it was learning to communicate, strips of language, learning to communicate in a very sparse way and trying to get a message across, which definitely stood me in good stead when I first started to work on TV and be visual. Because I realised, I've got a very small amount of time. How am I going to punch through? I've got to say something that will land and connect.

So I thought about it. Well, you learnt the most important rule of screenwriting in the most raw form possible, which is show don't tell. Show don't tell, yeah. And you don't get more show, don't tell than Pingu. I've never even considered that, but that's completely correct. And actually, I wonder though, because Pingoo, I mean, I will stop talking about Pingu. I sound like, I might go back and do an MA on Pingoo.

Honestly. Specifically, your record. I might confine it to the toy shop. But what I want to say is Pingu is someone who I would say is fundamentally well-meaning. Yeah, oh yes. Yes. But he acts before he thinks sometimes. Spot on.

Would you say you're like that? I definitely used to be. Hopefully I'm a little more zen these days. I'm a meditator. Are you? Yeah, I love that. They're off. Busby's found another lovely dog.

Is that a bit? I haven't got my glasses on. Lovely dog. Bedlington Whippet is. Gorgeous dog. Oh my daughter Lily wants a Bedlington Whippet. Am I allowed to take a photograph? Heaven's above, Lily will be absolutely beside herself.

It's her dream dog and Busby's with... Hello sweetheart. What's the name? Flash. Of course. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walk.

You can join us on our walks every week.