Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Olly Smith (Part Two)

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Here's part two of Emily and Ray’s Sussex walk with the wonderful Olly Smith, joined by his lovely dog Busby.If you haven’t already, do catch up on part one. And be sure to pre-order Olly’s brilliant debut crime novel Death by Noir, so you can dive straight in when it’s published on June 18th.Follow Emily:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilyrebeccadeanX: https://twitter.com/divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Will NicholsMusic: Rich JarmanArtwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to part two of Walking the Dog with the wonderful Ollie Smith and his dog Busby. Do, by the way, pre-order a copy of Ollie's brilliant debut crime novel, Death By Noir, so you can get stuck in immediately when it's published on June the 18th. Really hope you enjoy part two of our walk and do give us a like and a follow so you can catch us every week. Here's Ollie and Busby and Ray Ray. This experience, at this point, you're doing pretty well because as you say, you were also writing Charlie and Lola. Yep.

and you wrote some of Wallace and Gromit. I did work on, I was, yeah, part of a kind of punch-up day for, what was it, the curse of the wear of it. Yeah. And you're thinking at this point, well, that sort of feels like things are maybe going in a Hollywood direction. I was definitely doing that, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there was no, there was nothing else on the horizon. It was actually my friend Mark Huckabee, who, in the nicest possible way, pointed out to me that much as I was, you know, all right at screenwriting, he said the thing is all you ever talk about is wine and I've got to be honest I'm so bored hearing about it you've got to do something with it here is a competition which you should enter it's called wine idol love it like pop idol but nobody saw it which i did enter and you know long story short I managed to win and I used it as a calling card to pop around some studios and my part of the

prize was an audition to go on great food live which was a satellite tv show hosted by jenny barnet And I got my first, I did the audition and they were like, yeah, you're very theatrical. I don't think you'd write for telly, but do the audition anyway. Did the audition, rained it in, and they gave me a shot. And they kept asking me back. And other shows saw me. And within about six months, I was kind of doing Great Food Live, Food Uncut. There's a Sky show called Taste that picked me up.

And then within about a year or two, the Richard and Judy Wine Club came knocking. And Amanda Ross, who was the producer of that show, then went on to produce Saturday Kitchen. So that's been 20 years now. Are you joking? I know. I can't believe it. Don't tell anyone. How, I love you on that show.

Thank you. How, what have you learned? Like, how different are you to when you started out on that show? Yeah, when I started out, I was in the supermarket aisles and I had like three minutes and I had to be larger than life, you know. A bit more this morning. Very much so. Well, you're very sweet.

I thought of it as much more Keith Chegwin back in the day of the swap shop. Hello, Noel. But yes, I was trying to sort of be entertaining or trying to have some authority in the field, but also make it fun. I just wanted wine to be democratic, something for all ages, classes, backgrounds, no barrier to entry. And I thought if I made it fun that that might sort of help. And I think it did. But then coming into the studio was the greatest blessing for me because I was able to just be entirely myself. And I love live TV because I don't really think you can hide anything. you have to just be who you are when things go wrong it's a total gift because

it's material it's something that the audience relate to everybody's dropped a pan at home everybody's spilled a glass and the key thing we learned this from frank skinner yeah is don't pretend things haven't go wrong always always own up i totally agree like oh look at that yeah i was hosting the show when matt was away and i asked for paul ainsworth the chef to come on because he's a great friend and i really have the utmost admiration for the way he conducted himself in life and one of us I haven't watched it back but one of us spilt a glass of water over the cooking and it was a phenomenal TV moment because there we are suddenly we're not hosting a TV show anymore we're in a sitcom bickering over who's responsible

rather than actually just clearing it up it's just marvellous I love that so with the wine then you mentioned that your friend had said look I think this is the right thing for you to do mark yeah that's right passion for wine I feel like it was really in the sixth form at school, wasn't it? Yeah, that was when I had my first taste of the stuff, yeah. Yeah. And you started, and you joined a wine club. I did. Gosh, you've really done your research. I totally did. And I really enjoyed the idea that you could connect with places and people and languages and cultures that were totally unfamiliar in a very immediate and meaningful way.

And the values that they would bring to their wine really mattered to me right from the off. I'm a huge advocate for biodiversity and looking after the land, not just in a sustainable way, but in a regenerative way so that we don't just give it back in the condition we found it. We improve it. I think that's really key. And the more we see that in agriculture, frankly, the better. But I always, where wine really came together for me, it was the stalking horse which kind of brought the writing together. I had a column for years in a paper.

It brought the performing that I would always loved doing the acting. I was able to present. It brought my love of people. It also allowed me to be quite solitary, making notes, and it just fitted. And it became, yeah, the means of hopefully bringing a sense of, just a sense of enthusiasm for everything in life, but under this one umbrella. Yeah. And so, but there must have been a point, because you'd met your other half at this point. I heard.

And presumably when you're writing and you guys are starting to build a life together. Yeah. There probably is a part of her. I'm just saying what I would have thought if I was her, which is, well, it just. feels you've just got like Wallace and Gromwich, which feels like a big deal. And now you're going off on this wine thing. I know. I know it gets worse because when I won Wine Idol, Sophie was really...

Will you stop boasting? It's over now. Move on. I'm the only one. I'm the only one. I mean, the thing is you'll find I did win Wine Idol. Simon Cowell got a bit, was it Simon Cowell? Was one of the cows got a bit cross about the title?

So he never did it again. So I'm the one and only. Is it the Ethan Hawks or that's that right? Ethan Hawks. Who do I mean? Chesney Hawks. I'm the Chesney Hawks of wine. Got there in the end, yes. But no, she was, when that happened, she was really heavily pregnant with Ruby, our first child. And she did say to me, when I won it, she was, sorry, to go on about it. She said, I got it again, I'm sorry, I don't know if I've mentioned, but there was this little contest that not a lot of people know about. But anyway, she said to me,

look, how are we going to live? Because we didn't, we didn't have a lot of money. We'd just, I think, had we just bought our first home in Lewis or we were buying our first home in Lewis? And you put everything on the line. And as a screenwriter in those days, the bank would just laugh at you and go, what? You know, that's not a real job. And so we really had to, you know, fight to get, you know, at a kind of a mortgage across the line. Yeah, all of that. I'd like to buy this property in Lewis.

And what do you do? Does that make sense? I wrote the toy shop. Are you familiar with Pingu at the toy shop? Would you give me a half a million pound loan on the streets and Pingu at the toy shop? They really wouldn't. Yes, there was a lot of pressure and she basically said she's a wonderful person but she basically said look If it doesn't work you know what are you going to do? I said if it doesn't work I will go back to screenwriting

But I can kind of I think I can straddle both worlds which I did for probably six months a year and then the wine thing really took off And I remember crossing the floor at my agent's office right a lovely writing agent and it became clear that the the TV side of things was cooking and I walked across the floor to my Presenting agent I've been with ever since and yeah, that that's where it all began. Yeah and you've obviously got a huge talent for it because as you say you've been doing Saturday Kitchen for nearly 20 years now is 20 years in June yeah it will be yeah who's the most I mean I like the chaotic ones yeah obviously we all do yeah who's the most chaotic guests you've had ollie oh the probably the most chaotic in a good way um was probably Dan acroyd because that that tracks yeah he he's brilliant and he's very collegiate and the thing I admired most actually was that he he he's a blues

brother and a ghostbuster and one of the most recognisable Hollywood faces on the planet. But he comes into the studio and he introduced himself to every single crew person. Did he? Yeah, hi, I'm Dan. And then he came and sat down next to me and he said, hi, I'll, you're a cutie. And I thought, hello, hello. I've got his number. So I can, I can legitimately say, who are you going to call? But I haven't, I haven't had the courage to ring yet. That's a big number to know, right? I know. I know. He said, if you're ever in New York, I was thinking, well, I mean, I'm never really in New York, to be honest, Dan, but I could be.

You could make yourself be, I would. I think I should be, really, shouldn't I? But he was brilliant because he wore a paper hat throughout. You know those paper hats that people wear in the service industry if you're in a burgerger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And nobody really made reference to it. And I think towards the end, you know, I sort of said, what's with the hat? And he just said, solidarity.

And I thought, yep, that'll do. That makes total sense. And then, oh, this was a lovely moment. Down my earpiece, the producer said to me, look, we've kind of covered all the PR angles. We've done all the questions. Ask him whatever you like. And it was five minutes to the end and I thought, bingo. So I just turned to Dan and said,

hey, look, you're fame for, you know, ghost busts and all the rest. What do you, do you believe in ghosts, knowing full well what the answer would be? Yes. And of course, he turns to me and says, well, Ali, I can see them all around you right now. And it's like, this is TV gold. Dan Aykroyd is talking about the ghosts that he is currently watching. But I was in heaven. So, yeah, he gets my vote as the most chaotic and brilliant guest.

This is, by the way, where the pink pit stop would be, but she's not her pink van. Oh, her pink van. She's going to be gutters. Emily, where are you? Other Emily. But you can see the pink. The pink is so nice. This is the place Ollie was going to take me to a coffee. This is the walk, yeah, I was going to take you. But you know, at least we get to see it. You get to see it and in the summer, we're basically, for listeners you might want to reenact this. You're basically halfway between ditchling beacon and black cap on the trig point.

And it is a lovely spot. Emily does do brilliant coffee and I think she's wonderful. Oh, Emily, till next time. Till next time, yeah. And good luck with the baby. Yeah. If you are indeed having the baby at the moment, which I suspect you might be. Ray, can you please go and sit with... Come here.

Olive. Sit here. Oh, this looks so good together. Raymond. Ray, you're going to come here. There you go. There you go. There you go.

There you go. Oh, this is good. My babies. Raymond. Raymond. These are going to be good. This is like the cover of dog monthly or something. Honestly, they should get us doing crafts.

I tell you, balding move over. Balding. Love balding, but you know, there's got to be, there's got to be an opening. She really knows her stuff though, Ollie. Do you know, but we can wing it. We'll be fine. Yeah, what's that dog? Yeah. It's a dragon, dragonara dog. Dragonara, definitely.

When I saw her, something very old is going on with my phone. Oh. When I saw her, I did, um... She's amazing. She's incredible. Also, she's like the queen of the canopays. I'm just going to leave that there. Oh, is she?

Oh, yeah. yeah no she's she's but also just the amount of information she's super clever i went to crofts this year and just watching her yeah the way she comes out with stuff where she's and also what's so good because she knows so much about dogs she's so confident in that subject and she but she's so she really does the threat yes oh totally she was just coming out with this stuff saying and of course the bitch was bred in um five years before that and then her mother's line and i thought wow Yeah. She really has done a soft. Right, look at this. Oh, we're so cute, Ray. You're adorable. Okay, we're going to take you home. We didn't get to see nice, Emily. I'm sorry about that.

But she's a good egg and I'll give you your love. Come back anytime. Oh my God, I would love to. You're more than welcome. If you fancy a kind of stroll around the vineyards. I love that. Yeah, I'll give you my number and all of that, Jess. Oh, my God, that would be amazing. Yeah, yeah, no, we could be actual friends and deal all that stuff. Oh, I love that. I was going to ask. Sometimes I ask, but, you know, sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn't. You never know, do you? Right, come on. Come on, Latsby.

There we are. Let's go back. So, I want to talk to you about your brilliant book that I've just had the joy of reading. Well, thank you. And it's a thriller. It's a crime novel. And I love it because it, but it's based around wine, isn't it? Yeah, it's wine crime.

It's a new genre. Yeah, I've basically made it up. You've made up a genre. I basically have. And. It's set around this area, as you say. Right here. Yeah, literally over the hill there is the imaginary vineyard.

And we have the central character is... Barclay Flint. He's basically not dissimilar to you. He's not dissimilar to me. Let's be honest. Yeah, he loves a paisley dressing gown, loves a bit of music, obviously adores wine. Quite florid in his language,

but ultimately he's somebody who he brims with exuberance for life. And he finds himself in the frame for the disappearance of his best friend, Victor Croshaw, who is a wine grower locally. And to clear his name, he has to use his wine detecting skills to crack the case and solve the crime. So it's a really fun way of bringing wine into another light, really. And actually solving the riddle of a bottle of wine

has been my job forever. You know, you can read the label, obviously. But when you begin on picking its identity through taste and through the story behind it, where it comes from, it reveals an awful lot. And so I thought, yeah, this is a great setting for a novel and it's all set around the bottle bank wine shop in Lewis. And the background to it is the ticking clock of bonfire night, which is a huge festival. It's a big deal in Lewis, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, they basically blow the tan up every year. So it was a natural setting for me to kind of bring to life and doing this walk that we're on every week for the last seven, eight years. It's all set in and around here and ashcune bottom, which is their little fringe of woodland. you can see just beginning over there. There's some very key scenes in there. So this particular walk has sort of crept into my life and actually out through my fingers and into a novel. And maybe if they make it into a film or a TV show,

this is where they'll film it. I'd love it. Will's signed up for doing that. Very exciting. Mentionitis again. I know, but I love him. Do you know what? I love him now.

Have you worked together? No, but I wish we had. Oh, you should. I love him. He's a total, yeah, he's a great human. So this book is, what I love about it is that it's one of those, as any good thriller should be, where you're kind of just racing to get to the end because you're like, I've got my theories. Who done it?

I was completely wrong. Were you? I'll tell you afterwards. I'll tell you all. I don't want to spoil it because it really, it really did surprise me. I did not see it coming. Yeah. Which is a good sign, I think.

Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that. It was... Because I'm a clever woman. I know you are. I mean, I'm a smart woman. We know this. I may not have won wine idol. You could have won that.

But I did give you an entirely new perspective on Pingu and the toy shop. Like, I honestly, that was like the best Advent calendar doorway. The portal into your mind was somewhere I'd move in. I loved it. I loved it. But yeah, it's... What I also loved, though, was how vivid the characters are. Thank you very very.

much yeah because you have this collection of characters and there's I love this character called Pearl oh yes she works in the wine shop as your I'm sorry Barclay's assistant yeah she's the manager yeah she's very bright and in the best possible sense of the word because she's very socially conscious and she's a climate protester and yep yeah she's a bit younger as well she's got she's she's firey it's got got a lot going for her and then you have these brilliant sort of pensioner characters. Yeah, yeah, minty. Yeah, who I love as well. But there's one of my favourite character, it might surprise you who I like the most. Go on. It's not Mrs. McCrae.

I always go for the bad boys. Oh, hang on. Do you like, oh, you loved Axel? No, not the Dane. A bit older. No. LeBrock? Yeah. No. I love that. He's a joy to write for because he's so awesome. We should say who he is. He's this, Well, you explain who. Well, he's the, so there's this vineyard called Dandelion Hill, which is lovely and wholesome and beautiful. And next door is Green Acres, which is this incredibly austere mansion. Yeah.

And that's where LeBrock, Maurice LeBrock lives. And he's a sort of, he's a shooter. He's a, I suppose, a bit of a little Englander. He probably has probably been to his. Absolutely, no question about it. They've definitely shared a bathtub at some point in their lives. not at the same time, although nothing would surprise me. But those villains, I think, are sometimes must be quite fun to write.

I think it's the most joyful because he's a streak of kind of, yeah, not misery, he's just a streak of austerity in an otherwise very joyful book. And the way he speaks, I really enjoy. The way he looks down on literally everybody, there was a line I didn't, I don't think it made it into the book, but it was a line in one of the pitches I did when I was taking it to the publisher. was yes it was oh cripes what was it um yeah he treats his uh treats his staff like family uh it should be noted that he loathes his family he's like he's that person he's just

just yeah love sitting in a chair shooting pheasants all day long and i've sort of imagined him in my head i mean there's so many people who could play that character beautifully but somebody somebody like sort of hugh lorry richardy grant oh it's very hugh lorry could even be Hugh Grant now he's got this. Grant would be great. Oh my gosh. I think it could be Hugh Grant. Wow. I think it. Oh, isn't that great?

I loved it. Yeah. Hugh Grant, love him. Okay, I've casted it. Will, you're listening. It's been cast. So how did you decide and why did you decide to do crime? Was it that you thought, did the wine idea come first or the crime idea? This is a great question.

It was sort of simultaneous. It was about four years ago. I wrote half a novel that was too dark. I abandoned it. And it was a different set of characters, different setting. And I read it back and thought, I don't want to live in that world. It's not me. And I put it away.

And then I was on a plane, going to visit some vineyards in Bhutan, of all places. And on that plane, the four central characters of the bottle bank were just downloaded into my brain. The setting, it was like looking down on a valley that was shrouded in cloud. And bit by bit, this mist just moved. And I could see the locations. and I understood the whole clock of the piece. Everything sort of came at once. And I began writing this treatment, which I landed and sent to my agent.

By the time I got my bags, my agent Rachel, who'd been on at me for years to basically write a novel, he said, look, this is great, this is what I've been looking for, I think I know a publisher who might like it. I mean, it all happened quite quickly after that, because it did seem to resonate with the publishers. We had a meeting and two books were commissioned. And I think it's all because I waited until it was not just ready, but I just until it was kind of fully formed. And obviously my brain had been doing somersaults in the background the whole time working things out. And then it was just like, oh, well, I'm writing this now. And it was, it was wonderful.

The first story was all there. Book two I'm writing at the moment, which was, again, just, I was just remarkable about how the setting just keeps on giving. And the characters just keep on giving material. So it just feels like a really tight engine, the whole thing to me. And you just sort of press various bits and it just gives life. And I think, wow, this is, yeah, so the wine and the crime sort of simultaneously. And I thought, look, at this setting, I couldn't believe no one had written about Sussex. I can't think of any really, a series of books set in and around Lewis,

which is this wonderful independent, spirited, creative place, full of heritage and history. The language of Sussex as well, there's a dialect which features in the book. book and one of the older characters uses lots of words. And that came about because when I first moved down here, there was a bloke I used to meet on the Priory Field walking our dogs together who was Old Sussex. And he would use words I didn't recognize. And I would go and write them down and think,

what did he say? And it was quite hard to understand him some at the time. Yeah. And I kind of thought that's going, that side of things. I don't really come across it that much. So I thought it would be lovely to try and do something with it. Is there a part of you? Because you've written, as I say, you're brilliant at

and they're so vivid these characters. Is there a part of you that's thinking you're going to go to the swan or whatever and people are going to say, you know that Mike character, that shady army? Mike Deltz, yeah. He's, you know I was in the army? Oh my God. Do you know what I mean? It could happen, I guess, but yes.

Because everyone sees themselves. Yeah, yeah. Everyone, it's just human beings are a bit wired to feel like that, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's bang on actually. And actually, you mentioned Pearl, and I have had two people who've read the book who've both said to me, it's me, isn't it? And I'm like, oh gosh, no, it hadn't even occurred to me. But yeah, sure.

I mean, yes, fine. But that's also what I love. And from the responses I've had, you know, the press has been really very, I'm very lucky with the reviews so far. And the love the people have given. You've got some good quotes up your sleeve. It's not bad, is it? I know. Ben Elton loved it.

I was like, that'll do. He's got them all. Yeah. I was a bit amazed. But because you can't take this stuff for granted. not amazed well it's very sweetly because you're very well liked aren't you I mean I I don't know I just the thing that made me more joyful and happy than anything else you avoided eye contact when I said that's really awkward didn't you I don't know do you

do you find compliments difficult I don't know it's I can't I don't have a perspective on it because it's it's just so difficult to know really I would hope to be you know up there with the skylark singing away and people would think fondly but but that's it you Yes. But yeah, the... Maybe that's the definition of being likable, is that you're not... Maybe it's a trick question that. Right, maybe. If I say you're very well liked, aren't you?

You're not really. It's a bit drowning the witches because if you say yes. You're true because you can't. Yes, it is drowning the witches, which is by the way, the title of the book you should be writing. It's a great book. I don't know how you haven't written that. Drowning the witches is the book I want to read. But you know, I think you are very well loved.

though, Ollie. And I do think it's because, and particularly it's interesting, because a lot of people would do your job and they encounter high profile names, but it's transactional. It said, if you're coming on the show, oh, that was nice, met the nice wine guy with the glasses and the colourful shirt, that's great. I'll be on my way. Um, was that reductive? No, I loved it. I think that's bang on. It was, yes, impact. Yes. But what happens is that people are drawn to you. And I think that's particularly celebrities, I think it's interesting. Because I think you're an interesting case of someone who's very larger than life as a character, an incredibly warm and gregarious, but sort of without ego.

And the two don't normally go hand in the man. Maybe. I mean, I think the whole thought for me is that I think as life goes on, I mentioned I'm a meditator, I think that's a very key part of who I am. I'm nine years in and it's really helped me enormously. Yeah, just to have a sense of equanimity. And I think the, hopefully just being, literally being available to the limitless possibilities for all beings. Like people, of course, dogs, yes.

But I mean, look at it. Who knows even what it is? This is a realm we appear to be in of living material. I find the whole thing, to be honest, really ineffable. And I think that's where kind of, that's, that's the heart of my sort of thinking. I just find this absolutely miraculous. Where does, do you ever get, um, what does sort of sad or? What makes me sad?

What does sad Ollie look like? Sad Ollie gets, gets tired and goes to sleep. Really? He's quiet. Yeah, he's a, he gets quiet and he look, I'm good at kind of reading the cues to try and, you know, keep, I think everybody runs their own clock. And I'm pretty good at knowing when things are slightly, when I, you know, when I need a pint, you know, like I'm very good at that.

I know exactly when I need a pint, which is every, every Monday evening. Yeah. Because that's when the pizza van comes. to my village. But I think trying to remain aware of the things that are working and therefore the things that are not working. Like for example, I didn't always look after myself very particularly well with regard to fitness. But for the last few years, I lift weights. I have a PT called Rob who helps me in a barn just down there. Twice a week. I do yoga twice a week. I love a walk. And I think it's all of the stuff that everybody's different. There's no one size

no but I think it's it we now know there is a direct link to your mental health yeah yeah totally exercise you're getting you know like you say you don't have to go to even if walking is your thing it's just you always feel better yeah for sure I do that that's when I was really sad and my sister died that's how and my parents have both died and I just thought I need to walk yeah I would go out for a walk and I thought you have to start small you have to say oh I'm not going to aim a high today have a bath and walk. If I can do those two things, and nine times out of ten after the walk...

Things feel a little. You feel a bit better. I think that's profound and I think it's true and I think movement is very healing. There's something about the cadence of walking, the rhythm of it. Especially walking here, Ollie. I mean, this is something else, isn't it?

I might even drive all the way here because I went to a college near here. Did you? Where did you go? Oh, nice. So I lived... And I always used to, I was a bit of a snob, so I'd drive through Lewis and think, oh, this is a bit nicer, I want to live in Lewis. Yeah, it's nice, isn't it? Just because it was more cottagey and a bit more traditional.

It really is, and it's very pretty, and the architecture is ancient, and it has lots of heritage, lots of sort of social sediment to it. Tom Payne, the founding father of America, you know, the independent sort of zeal from Lewis, you know, there's a lot, a lot that's there. Listen, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't occasionally on right move, Googling a prior. Were you looking at it happened. Nice. I'm often Googling a Vithridger, a friary.

Oh, do you know what? In this area. I could see you down here. Why don't you move down? I mean, we're mates anyway, but it would be a laugh. Ray, you'd love it. Do you know, I think you'd be enough to motivate me to move. Seriously, why not?

That's how charismatic you are. Oh, bless you. Hello, sweetie. So, I mean, you've become really good mates with Gary Barlow. I love your friendship. Yes. It's true. It was a very, it came about.

We were working together. on P&O Cruises. He was working as the musical director and I've got some wine bars on their ships and we came together. Ollie and Garron on the cruise. I'd watch that documentary. Well, it was lovely because he was,

you know, he's kind of, I find him very, he's very engaging, he's very down to earth and my friendship with him is very real. We actually talk a lot about things like fitness and, you know, how we are, you know, and what he's up to. It's, for me, it's like,

are they on a lead? Can you see? I might, yeah, I'm not quite sure, because I never know what sort of dog it is as well. I'll just put Busby on just to be on the safe side. They're not like a gang that lot, don't they? Do you know, they do look like a thing? Three humans, two dogs. Unless we get nearer.

We all instinctively, you picked up, you know, Ray. But we were acting like it was a bunch of skinheads in the 70s. We're going to meet them though. They're going to be so nice. They look so nice. They're literally going to be so nice. I can already see. We'll be kissing them goodbye in minutes.

Yeah. They're going to invite us around for dinner. This is awkward, isn't it? And they're going to be giving us like, They're passed them as these ruinous barbarians. Kind of hampers. Oh my God, I'm giving the shorts award early today. Somebody wearing shorts and it's...

That's like our friend Pierre. I love Pierre. We're going to discuss Pierre. We need to discuss him because... We'll finish Gary Barlow. Yes, let's do Gary. And then we'll discuss how we know each other, which is through Pierre. Yes.

Firstly, Ollie Smith, we need to deal with this gang. Yeah, we do. They're out for our blood. There's a woman who looks probably about 80. She looks lovely. Oh my God. The dogs look really friendly. And do you think, okay, do we think that...

Are they related? I'm not. My producer just said she's 40 and I said she was 80. I'm going to put my glasses on. I'm putting mine on. I think she might be 25. Oh my God, don't. I think they're all students.

I'm not sure. Oh, look at those doggies? They are nice. Do we let you off? Do you want to say hello to the dogs? Hello, darling. Hi there. Hello, my son.

Yeah, how are you? Excellent. What a lovely do for? Oh, look, you've got a little, little striped. Oh, cute face. So nice. Yeah, really well. Thanks. Take it easy. Have a good walk.

Yeah, three of the nicest people you could hope to meet. Do you know them? No. But aren't they lovely? So Gary, yeah, Gary, I find very encouraging that he's somebody who's achieved so much. And I actually haven't seen the Netflix documentary yet, but I'm not surprised to hear that people found it very emotional. And because he's been on such a roller coaster in his life. And to come through it and still be a very, he's a, I just find him very in touch with the moment. He seems very pleasant.

When I watched the Beatles documentary Get Back, yeah, that was brilliant. I realised, looking at Paul McCartney, who was the one saying, well, we've got to get this sorted. Yeah. And I thought, oh, that's Gary Barlow. Yeah, totally. Every band has a Paul McCartney.

And they're sort of the person who gets things done. Yeah, they wanted, he wanted them to keep playing. And I suddenly thought, that's Gary Barlow. Yeah, I think you're right about that. And I think that's, because they've gone through various lineups now. I think it's just the three of them at the moment. He's the engine, though. He's always been the work ethic. He is, he's a, I will say that, he's a worker.

He works, you know, he's often, he's always at his desk or writing songs or in the gym or he's a he's an achiever. He contributes daily to that. He is your right. He's got a daughter named Emily, I think. Oh, has he got a dog? Olly, let's make him come on this. No, don't see. We've asked him, actually, you'll, I think he'll do it in later in the year. I think he'll do it if he knows all these, don't know. Oh, we'll definitely do. We got the big, oh, do you ever have like surprise guests?

Because I can come out from behind a bush and go, surprise. jazz and he'd be like who's this I don't know never seen him before I'm he wouldn't go who's it do you Gary impression I can't possibly no he's lovely and he's very sincere about his interest in wine as well because he's got his own wine label and he started out he really seriously he really does and he started out and he was the first to say I don't know very much about this I'm just really interested and he's now you know he's at the moment he's in New Zealand he's sending me all these photos of him in various vineyards and I'll recommend in places to go wines to taste and

yeah it it was a real surprise friendship to be honest it came out and nowhere and I'm really happy for it. It's um it brings me gladness in my life. And you and I, we should say, full disclosure, yes. I saw you at a wedding. I want to say it was about it was February 14 weeks ago. Three weeks ago. Yeah. Oh yes, Valentine's Day. It was a Valentine's Day wedding and I recognized you because I saw the tartan suit. Yeah, that would make that be me. First I saw the tartan suit. I thought, look at him. Navy tartan. He's a bit fancy. I love Scotland. And then, I thought, oh, that's Holly Smith. I'm a huge fan of his.

And then I was too shy. I thought it would be weird to go up to you and your wife. And I thought your wife looked something. Honestly, she's such a fan of yours as well. I can't believe. I told her this morning that you're at the wedding because I found out. She was like, are you kidding me? She's very cross about this.

And so we met, so this we should say, is the wonderful Piano Valli, who's been on this podcast before. I just think he's one of the greatest mortals ever. And you and him are good mates, like you. Really close. Yes, very close with Pierre. I've admired. You didn't do the wedding, the wine for him. wedding? No, I didn't. He had various people help with that. To be honest, he's he's now pretty well connected in the wine trade. There's a lovely wine buyer called Freddie Bulmer.

There's a guy called Will who's from a well-known port family. Is he related to the Sider family? Do you know what? I don't think he is. Okay. I don't think he is. Okay. I don't think he's, yeah, Pierre, Pierre had some really good wine at his wedding. It was lovely. The fact that you're funny. What a nice day? Wasn't it lovely? Well, the fact that you're friendly with Pierre, I think is very telling. Yeah. Don't you think you can tell a lot of about people by their friends? Yeah. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think Pierre is the sincerity of Pierre and the kindness of Pierre, the deep connection Pierre offers. My daughter is autistic and he was just so incredibly helpful and informative during the run-up to and the diagnosis and the changes that we made in our lives.

And I love him and I love everything that he stands for. book, what's it called? Why can't I just enjoy this? Yeah, why can't I just enjoy things? Thank you, things. It's one of the greats and I just warmly recommend everybody listening. If you haven't already, you know, go back and listen to his episode. But the book is just so brilliant. I loved it, Ollie, when he was telling me about the dogs growing up, because normally you say to people, what did you have? And they say, oh, well, we had a little border terrier or, you know, a little Labrador. Yeah. It's like, we had an Alsatian. Oh, yeah. And I said, oh, yeah, is that quite typical?

for South Africa. Because he's in South Africa, these horrible slavering guard dogs and I was expecting like snowy. Although he did, I said, what was he called? And it was like, he was called Rex. It'll be Rex or, you know, Herod or something. I mean, it's just, he's, he sort of defies

so many stereotypes, though, because he's prodigiously intelligent and yet incredibly down to earth and very easy to communicate with. And he has this South African background and is, I mean, just everything about him, is surprising and delightful. Well, do you know what I said to him and he took this? I said, you've got a dilemma. I said, because you present physically as one of the Winkle by twins in the social network,

like the jocks rowing. Yeah. I said, but you're actually Mark Zuckerberg inside. And he's even okay with that? I'm sure he is. I think he's okay with everything. He is. I think he's so comfortable in his own skin.

Yeah. And so brilliant at direct conversation. What I mean is I said to me he's a geek trapped in a jock's body. Yeah, which weirdly brings a sort of nuclear fission of some unexpected warmth. It's the anti-radiactive, whatever that is. Exactly. It's delicious. We love Pia.

We love Busby too, but where's Busby? Oh, Busby's gone quite far. He goes on a bit of a range. Buzzie. How do you feel about being called Oll? Don't mind at all. I find it quite endearing. What, don't you like being called?

Is anyone ever... Well, people, some people call me Oliver, which I find some quite. confusing like my father and mother sometimes do and my mother-in-law as well but all I like old's people call me old big old I like I like being called then oh can I can I keep you call me em yeah oh I love that song I love Scotland deeply my grandparents my grandmother was Scottish and I lived in Scotland for a while I'm a huge I just love a lot about Scotland but I love it when when a Scott says to me are you all right big man I just think oh man it's just first time it happened to me

Honestly, I felt like my whole soul had vanished through a trapped door in my mind. I was just a free fall of ecstasy for days. I love that. I love that. Days. You're right, big man. I thought, I'm fine now. Absolutely fine. Well, my friend's husband does a great thing where he talked about, I can't remember we'd have a row or something. And he said to her, you don't want to mess around with Emily. She's a big woman. And I love that. Yeah.

I like that. That again, though, your autobiography. big woman I'm there I'm there for it yeah I love you being a big woman yeah I love you being a big woman and we need to talk a bit about wine because we've talked about your brilliant and it is the theme after all of your brilliant novel which I cannot recommend enough I honestly tore through it with regards to wine I had a few things I wanted to put to you yeah so I don't drink really anymore nothing Unfortunately, not because I can't or I had an issue with alcohol, just to kind of various lifestyle reasons. Yeah, I get it. I totally get it. However, when I did drink, I was, I used to do something weird, Ollie, which was, I used to like champagne.

Yes. But I didn't like champagne glasses. I used to like having it in a wine glass, like a white wine golfer. You were leagues ahead of the curve. That's how you serve it now. Champagne is now served in white wine glasses. I'm not joking you. because it enhances the aromas. It tasted much better. Yeah, it does. It's an absolute win. So the flutes, which is the long, narrow ones, they...

It's like just the tradition. Yeah, they keep the bubbles going, basically. But you can't actually smell a lot of the complexity. And also, because it sort of points the liquid to directly into your face, it's slightly awkward, whereas if you have it in a white wine glass, it's like turning up the volume on the wine, simple as that. And you were honestly, leagues ahead. But it's interesting that kind of thing, because I think there was a sense of,

oh my God, I can't believe Emily's ordering white wine. I love you for doing that. And I think wine should be exactly what you want it to be. I've always felt, you know, we all like different things in life. It might be a film or a book or we have different tastes. And wine is no different. Some people will like Savignon Blanc. Other people won't.

And that's completely fine. I had somebody the other day, she said, oh, what am I going to do? I've just never liked red wine. And I was like, well, drink white wine or rose or whatever it is you do like. And she was like, really? And I was like, yeah, do you don't like this. I really don't react well to red wine. Yeah, if you don't like, it's fine.

They can, they're absolutely can. But I think the sort of growing moderation is something I really support and lord, you know. And I... Well, can I order it as in terms of... Instead of wine? Yeah, what's a really good, no alcohol, wine or motel that you'd recommend? Okay, so you want to go to Tesco's and you want to spend nine pounds on a bottle called Believe. And it's by Matthew Dukes, who's a wine writer, a very talented wine writer.

Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. this amazing wine alternative, which big news for you is a sparkler, and it will give you all the thrills you used to get from champagne with none of the booze. And it's a total steel for under a tenor. It's brilliant. I tasted it for the first time this week. I cannot wait to get it on Saturday kitchen. It's a crown cap, like a beer bottle, which is exactly what you want for convenience and everything else. Just by 12, stick them in the fridge, you'll never

look back. I'm going straight. And I'll buy them for Frank Skinner, who I work with. Yeah, giving my love. He doesn't drink alcohol. Franks is, I mean, he's honest, about the fact obviously that his is for different reasons to mind. Yeah, of course. We're always on the lookout for an oil. That's your banger. And the other one I'd say is very good as a wine alternative is Botivo, which is you can get it in cans

or you can get it in a bottle and dilute it yourself. But it's like this really zesty arresting botanical flavor. If you like sort of, you know, really zesty oranges, you know, that's sort of tang, that's a tangerine that's firm and juicy. When I did drink wine, yeah. Yeah. My favourite wine ever.

Yeah. I don't know if I'm saying something. bit naff now. But it was the nicest wine I ever tasted. It was from, it was Hungarian. It was called Tokai. Oh, sweet Tokai is one of my favourite wines. I couldn't love you any more than I do. Oh my goodness. Oh my god. It was like nectar. I've never tasted anything like that in my life. It's like a lightning strike in a jar of apricot jam. Because I thought, because it was sweet. It's bright and sweet. I thought, oh, maybe this is... You are a wine goddess.

Ollie, I've never tasted anything like that in my whole life. Just for the record, I am on the floor, bowing. That's what's happening. I'm prostate on the ground. Holly, is like, because when I tasted it, I thought, oh, is this too sweet to be good? I'm not going to mention the competition, but the wine that I tasted to win the competition was a toky. I think we are. Not saying it. Do you know, he's so modest.

Yeah. He won't talk about it. But to talk about it. And my opening line was, Yonapotka vanok, Wizzolim and akevailer, which means in Hungarian, hello and welcome to the show or something like that. I'm Molly Smith. Hungarian listeners may disagree, but it's something like that. Well, I tell you what, Ollie, I have, because as I say, I'm fortunate in that it's not that I can't drink, it's just that I don't. Yeah, you don't, yeah.

But I do allow myself, I have every, maybe every year or a couple of times a year. Oh nice. So you know what I'm suggesting? Go on, you and I get together for a little cheeky dast of to-o-o-o-o-i. I come up, see you and your missis. Yeah. And we have some Hungarian tocki. I've got it, I've actually got a Hungarian tocky library in my collection.

You can choose. But that's how I would do it. And you can pick the bottle and go, I want that one. That's because I save alcohol up for something. You come over and where do you stand on blue cheese? Oh, I love a bit of blue cheese. That and toky. Best pairing in the world. Really?

Yeah, filthy, absolute filth. I tell you what I think the best pairing in the world is. What, you and me? Come off it. Me too. I'm there. Well, it's got to be Tri and Brooks. I'm obsessed with your wife. You've got to meet my wife. So I'm afraid.

Literally, I mean, she's such a, oh, Sophie, honestly, she's brill. You're just going to, the thing is that I'll just fade away. We'll just be like, who? We won't care about you. Who's that guy? Just looks a bit like a pallid Alan Carr. I just, oh, he looks like, what's that man over there? Mr. Tumble, no.

I get that a lot from Cabbies, you know. Do you? Oh, it's always the same line as well. There's a silence and then there'll be, can I just say, what you do for the kids is absolutely tremendous. I'm encouraging them to bring one. Exactly, I'm groping around thinking what in my thoughts, thinking, what on earth are they referring?

And then, oh, oh, you think I'm, Mr. Tumble, yeah. Happened to me, oh, it happened to me at a festival. Sophie was that how you get? Oh, constantly. Hang on, is Mr. Tumble Bellamori? No. No, that's Miles Jones. who's also a lovely man.

Lovely man. Yes, but no, Mr. Tumbles, the one. I was at a festival in, where was I? One of my favourite pubs in the world, the square and compass down in Werthma Travice in Dorset, which I love. Best pint of cider ever there. Oh, it's called Eve's idea.

Two pints, okay, three, you'll be singing George Harrison's My Sweet Lord, so just watch it. It's strong stuff. That happened to me on my 40th birthday and I could not stop singing it. It was quite embarrassing. I then turned to my good friend Nick and said, I swear to you, Tim, and I had to be put to bed.

Anyway, I was there. at a festival with Sophie and this young young lady came up to me with her dad and said please may have a picture of that of course so we're standing the three of us and then as the photo is being taken he says she's loved you ever since xyz and it becomes manifestly clear she thinks i'm mr tumble and i could not bring myself to say i'm so sorry i'm not mr tumble because i didn't want to ruin her day and i think she was called josie and i'm she's listening i'm so sorry because i know she'll have gone home and said there's mr tumble and someone's gone no man mate that's the wine guy and I feel I felt terrible but Sophie on the day absolved me and

said you really you had no choice because the photo had been taken and it was all too quick I could because I'd have to chase them off I'm so sorry I've just got to tell you I'm not who you think I am oh it was awful I felt terrible for days and in fact I still feel bad but how do you feel generally because you know you're a familiar face particularly with terrestrial TV I think because we feel I almost think you're even more recognisable when you're on terrestrial TV now because I suppose now fame is so everything so dispersed through social media and how do you feel about that are you comfortable with it is there any aspects of it you're not you're less comfortable with what's the hardest thing

about it yeah that's a that's a really interesting question because mainly I'm I'm good with it and I'm available to anyone who sort of says hello I'd say the only tricky bit is if you're like if you're in a, my dad's been in hospital since before Christmas and, you know, there's just, if you're in that situation and you're kind of dealing with stuff, that can be a little challenging. On the other hand, those people are also in hospital in a challenging situation. So it's okay. It's like there's never, there's never been a moment when I've really thought it's been intrusive, to be honest. There was one, I remember when I was on a phone call, someone close to me was having a baby and I was very excited and somebody asked for herself and I was

like, yeah, sure. And I was like, it was fine. But it stuck in my mind because I thought, That's just a really... Yes. Yeah. It's never really made me feel uncomfortable. I think because all my friends and Sophie and the people I love, you know, they were all in place before any of it happened. Well, I was going to say, I think Sophie is actually a key thing.

She's the whole thing. But also I'd give a large shout out as well, obviously my family, but my wife's family, you know, my sister-in-law, Cozy and her husband Zayman, who I really love, and Sophie's mother, Camilla, who, and stepfather Mike, you know, I've known them all forever. And it just really is wonderful. It helps enormously. I think it just means that it's, those friendships are so important. Yeah.

I think there's just, they're like, you know, I think there's just a consistency to them. And I think one thing that can be sometimes with this world, you know, it can be a little bit destabilising, I guess. I'm sure, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm just thinking with what you do in terms of being very front facing. And I wonder, I just think that does help. I think so and I my dad said something lovely once he said we were having a pint and somebody in the pub said oh he seems just like he is on the telly and dad said that's the thing he is and I thought oh that is really nice to hear and I hope that's true I tell you who else was lovely I was very lucky to get to know Roger Moore for the last kind of 10 years of his life I mean that's quite amazing he was so funny and sweet and down to earth and brilliant and he was so sincere about all the work that he did for UNICEF and getting girls in education and fighting for medicine for people with God

getting I think it was iodine and looking after people with HIV. Was he quite an old school gent? Totally. I imagine. And real potty mouth. So really funny because he'd be like, you know, he'd be being super charming and I always loved Sansaer so I'd always kind of whenever I could give him a glass of Sanssere. And then he'd just throw in an F and a Jeff and it would have Sophie on the floor.

How did you get to know him then? Well I was writing and producing a little animation. He basically, I was a big fan and he had a heart incident on stage in New York. Right. And my mate Dan, who was an animator, did a lot of. little thing called Sir Roger Moore's Requiem, which you can still find on YouTube, which was basically would show what would happen to Roger's soul in the event he died without meeting me first. It was basically going to this kind of, you know, ancient Egyptian Hades type of thing.

It was really funny, basically. And did he see it and like him? Rodg saw it in his hospital bed and was too called Pink. And I sort of immediately said, Dan, we've got to write something for him for UNICEF. Let's write my cartoon. Let's get him to do the voice. Let's go meet the guy. Which, you know, Roger said, I'm recuperating. So unless you want to come to Monte Carlo, we were on the next plane and there he was you know he was and he was so fun and we sort of hid it off and then he was coming to London and I met up with him then and you know he met Sophie he met my brother he asked my he made so sweet my parents lived down in Devon and he was doing a show down there and he reached out and was basically like you know he'd love to meet them and I said to mum and dad oh you know Roger would love it if you came to the show and met him and they were very humble and dad was I'm not sure you know oh my gosh it's quite a lot so I went back to Rod and said oh they're there You know, they're thinking about it type of thing. And he was like, we'll tell him to stop being such bloody wankers, which I did. And they met him.

And as they went into the dressing room, Roger stands up and goes, ah, Ollie's dad. You're even more Ollie than he is. And it's just like so disarming and brilliant. And like, Dad's like feeling great. And yeah, he was lovely. He was just, he was the archetypal example of how to conduct yourself as a human being. And I thought he was great. I think you're that as well.

But what I would say, I imagine, but you could be doing what you're doing and you could not have become friends with Gary Barlow or be invited on to piano, you know, do all these things or being asked to write a book. And all these, and meet Roger Moore, we should have put that at the top. So Gary would forgive it. We said Rod should be at the top. His Roger's to, yeah. I think what's interesting to me is that people might say, oh, you know, how come all these things happen to you? And I think it's not that they happen to you.

It's because of you that they happen. Wow. I'm going to do a lip wobble at that, I think. You're very, very kind. I'm not sure. I just think as long as you just, somebody said to me early on, just stay in the room, you know, just keep doing what you're doing. And sooner or later things will fall into place.

And I think as long as you have some. But it's not just staying in the room, Ollie, because you've got a... If you're a presence in that room, it's about being a presence, isn't it? I think being present is massive, actually. I would say that is something that I take very seriously is just trying to be actually here right now.

I'm a colossal fan of George Harrison. And I quite enjoyed the extraordinary journey he went on and then this late flourishing with the travelling Wilburys and his late solo career. Did he get into the Maharishi? Did he believe... Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was fully...

Oh, that was a low point, though, wasn't it? Full medit. Yeah, but full, ended up, like, doing lots for sort of... They got taken in, bless them. Well, they had a weird... What, the White album came out of it, though. I mean, I would be changed that. Do you know, the White album was something I discovered much later in life, really.

Yeah, I came to it late. I think you've got to be late to really appreciate it. I think when I was younger. It's bonkers. Yeah, but it's bonkers, but... I mean, I was much more. I think when I was younger, it was like Sergeant Peppers, because it's... Yeah, it's cool.

But the White album, I get it now. It took me a long time. I was like, oh, I get what you've been saying all those years. Probably not you with the wine. Yes. When someone says, Ollie, I get it. Oh, yeah, totally. Finally, all the gibberish you've been talking. What's the thing people always ask you about wine, Ollie?

I know what they ask. They want to know. The big questions are screw caps, does that still mean a cheap wine? Yeah. I get that a lot. Is English wine any good? Yeah. What's your favourite wine?

What's the most expensive wine you've ever tasted? I ask that an awful lot. Yeah. I'd say people do want to know. They come up to you in the street and ask them. Yeah. They do, yeah. They say, oh my God, I've got to go to, is my father-in-law's first day?

Yeah, all the time, yeah. And what do you do say? Give my wine, it's easy. Just pluck it out in the library and give it to them. Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm here for. It's literally. A chat GPT. I am the chat GPT of wine recommendations.

But I love it when people get in touch and say, yeah, I've got, you know, Dad's 50th or I really want to do something special. Yeah, this happened yesterday. I was somebody messaged me and said, my son's in Australia. I really want to give them a really iconic Aussie wine at about 50 bucks. I was like, that's the one. And they did it. They were like, thanks a million, I've done it.

And I know that they'll love it, and it's 30 seconds of my time. Because I get so taken in by packaging. But that looks so poff. Yeah. And I'm quite old school, so I like it when it looks a bit French and old school. And even something that has a funny name. If it's got a comedy name, I think, oh, it's a bit Comic Sans. Like, if I'm spending, you know, £40, I don't want Comic Sans on that bottle.

Do you think they'll ever be a kind of a renaissance for Comic Sans? In the way that Germanic script after the war was a no-no. Yes. And then now you sort of see it creeping in. I'm wondering if Comic Sans might be due a Renaissance. Can you ever imagine, like, you know, quite a serious book. Like big woman in Comic Sans. Maybe that's, maybe that's, maybe that's you.

No, I'd like something like a public funeral. Yes. Oh, yeah, and somebody absolutely, I mean, we don't wish it on anyone. Well, use it 10. I'm thinking somebody of the caliber of Trevor McDonald's, you know. Morris Stewart, somebody's really great part of the nation, you know, sushi, one of the news readers that, you know, that sort of thing. one of the big ones.

But we wish them all well. We're not just to be clear. We're in no way hastening their demise. We're good people. Well, we're nearly at the end of a walk and I'm absolutely devastated. I'm quite sad too. Oh, hello. What's happening now?

Do you want to go in there? I see. All right. Come on, Busby. Yeah, I'm very sad that the walk is ending. I've loved every second. Isn't it be lovely? It's lovely to meet new people that you like.

Yeah. I can't wait to see you again. Both of you're lovely. Oh, well, my producer's lovely. Well, it's gorgeous. It's got great trousers on. I've been resisting asking where they're from, but the whole thing, are they toast? Where are they?

Uniclo. Uniclo. Oh, I've just ordered some jeans from Uniclo. Yeah, Uniclo. Yeah, Uniclo, are great. Oh, yes. I think you might be the most enthusiastic person I've ever met. Like, literally, I've never met anyone who can say,

find out my producer is wearing Unicloid jeans. I've just ordered some jeans from Uniclo. Yeah. To be honest, my first ever purchased from Uniclo. So there's obviously something in the universe, summoning me to Uniclover. You're very glass half full. Yeah.

What makes you sad, Ollie? Do you cry? When do you cry? You know, I love it if we weren't at war. That would be great. I just find the macro stuff that we can't really control could make me sad, but actually I've realised as I get older, I only have a certain amount of things that are agency ever. I can't change a lot. What I can do is change me and I can hopefully in every interaction I have try and just be not that. Yeah. So, yeah. What do you like about yourself more as you're older? slowing slowing down and reading just being super present tense and listening to music cuddling's great cuddling's great love a cuddle um Sophie really like her do you think

but how do you think you've changed and developed like I think as I've got older the thing that I've noticed I've realised is I no longer it no longer matters to me so much to try and convince someone else of my opinion being the right one oh massively you know when you're younger it's so I mean, I cringe sitting around the common room and you go, no, I just think you need to listen to me. It's so embarrassing and you hear it with younger people now and whether it's politics or any sort of view, it's just like, I know, I can sit with the discomfort of them disagreeing with me. Correct. Do you feel like that? Wholesome, yes, I do. I don't mind it at all. In fact, I want people to be different. I want to celebrate the things that set us apart because it's wonderful. Yeah. I definitely think the thing I've appreciate and I'm very grateful for.

for is that I no longer have a racing mind. I think when you're young, racing thoughts is, it can be quite tormenting. Because you know, and literally sort of feeling like you suddenly. Meditation. Meditation, definitely. Yeah, yeah. 10 minutes a day, the last nine years.

And yeah, it actually works. It's just, I can't recommend it highly enough. But that's the thing I'm most grateful for, because the clarity that brings, and therefore the opportunity to really marvel at what's going on instead of missing your own life, that's the game to me. And also that thing, you know, people would look at you, and I'm sure they do when you're on Saturday Kitchen, you're on to a degree.

You know, that's, of course, you're naturally a brilliant and charming and you wouldn't have got the gig otherwise. But still, I always say whenever you're doing any sort of performing, whether it's a radio show or a TV show, I say that's like the version of you that's a 6pm drinks party. Bang on. That's not you in your bathrobe at 10 a.m. No, no. Well, you never know, actually. I'm quite keen on the bathroom at 10 a end. But you know, there are parts of, you know, there's...

Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally. You are showing up for those things, for sure. But it's nice things like this is very, this enables the dog walk on the podcast, enables a very, very candid and real conversation. And I think that's a very wonderful thing. Oh, well, Ollie, honestly...

You're very good at it as well. I mean, you don't need meeting you. I really do. I think you're flipping brilliant. Oh, Ollie, are you making crying? Do you know this has been the loveliest walk have you enjoyed it Ollie? Literally it's my 10 out of 10 walk it's in my it's probably in my top three walks of all time I'm trying to think so I'd definitely include a family walk up the young

frow yoch in there because that was really good can't just say that's so Olly I can't do country things you need to do it yeah it was a gate or something I don't even know what it is it was a gate thing and I don't even want to look at it it works okay I had a walk in Jersey on Plymont Beach and my brother and my wife that was pretty epic but this is going in that number it's I'm not even going to put a number in it it's in the top three it's in there thank you Southdowne's Way we walked yeah we walked to Emily's pink pit stop and back it is very beautiful it's a nice drive it's like Monte Carlo talking of Roger Moore oh should we have an ice cream we could have an

ice cream you know you've just taken the words right out of my mouth I feel like we've just got to the car park yeah so we're going to go to the Perbeck ice cream van which I noticed we dismissed pretending to be grown up earlier and said no we want a coffee. We definitely want to coffee. And now we've got to know each other better. The inhibitions have gone. There's no inhibitions.

We can admit. Yeah. We want an award-winning Dorset ice cream. I do. Or a twister. They're bloody great. Well, should we say our goodbyes now? So we can order our ice cream.

Ollie, I've loved it. I'll kiss you goodbye. We'll see a goodbye. King of the trousers. Thank you so much, Ollie, for doing our podcast. Thank you. I've loved it. And you loved Ray.

I can't tell you how much I love Ray. everybody listening it's such a treat and a privilege to meet Ray it really is I mean I've admired you from a far sir but never did I think I would for you oh I mean he's better than Gandalf I'd follow him into the fires of Mordor Ray I'm putting that on your bio yeah and I've absolutely loved meeting Busby as well thank you and I really recommend you buy Ollie's brilliant book death by noir it's out in June the 14th but it is available for pre-order immediately and I recommend you pre-order Please do.

Because this boy is a popular boy. I would honestly get moving on that front. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ollie. Bye. Bye-bye. I really hope you enjoyed that episode of Walking the Dog. We'd love it if you subscribed.

And do join us next time on Walking the Dog wherever you get your podcasts.