Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Patrick Grant (Part One)

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

This week, Emily and Raymond are taking a walk in Battersea Park with the brilliant Patrick Grant! Patrick is well-loved for his role as a judge on The Great British Sewing Bee. He’s also a designer, entrepreneur, owner of Community Clothing - a sustainable fashion label. Although Patrick doesn’t currently have a dog, he has a wealth of dog experience from his idyllic childhood in Edinburgh - which sounds like it was a scene straight out of The Wind In The Willows. He explains the origins of his lifelong interest in clothes and we discuss the subtleties of being well-dressed. Patrick’s book LESS - Stop Buying So Much Rubbish: How Having Fewer Better Things Can Make Us Happier is available now! Keep up with Patrick on Instagram @patrickgrantismCatch up with The Great British Sewing Bee on BBC iPlayerFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Meg was the greediest dog that you've ever met. She once ate a whole giant bar of Bourneville. That disappeared. It was wrapped up under the Christmas treat. People say dogs can't eat chocolate. Well, Meg proved them wrong on that one. This week on Walking the Dog, Raymond and I took a south-west London stroll

with fashion designer, clothing entrepreneur and long-running judge on the BBC's Great British Sewing Bee, Patrick Grant. Patrick and Ray got along famously. partly because Patrick grew up surrounded by dogs, but also because, let's face it, they both share a bit of old-school gent energy. Patrick and I had the loveliest walk, chatting about his passion for clothes and tailoring,

which all started at a very young age and led him all the way to the heights of Saville Row, but he's also someone who genuinely forces you to rethink your whole approach to fashion because he's written an incredibly powerful new book called Less, Stop Buying So Much Rubbish, How Having Few Better Things Can Make Us Happier. And it's one of those slightly life-changing books that really inspires you to look at your own actions as a consumer. And by the end of it, you really want to join Patrick in doing the right thing for all of us.

But he explains it all much better than me. So I think it's time I stop talking now and hand it over to the great man himself. Here's Patrick and Ray Ray. Raymond, are you going to say hello? Yeah? Say hello to Raymond. Raymond's got an amazing coat. You have to work out which end is which.

That's the first thing with Raymond. There's Raymond's face. Now, what happened just then was that, well Patrick Grant, do you want to tell us what happened? Oh, here we are. We're back for a bit more Raymond. Good, I'm not sure, so dog obsessing. Well, there's nothing wrong with that.

It's better than being obsessed with mobile phones. Who doesn't want to say hello to Raymond in this park? Raymond, you are a champ. And do you know Raymond doesn't bark? It's a superpower. No, he's never barked, Patrick. Well, I mean, even if he did, his coat would probably muffle it. He is a bit like one of those boom mic covers.

I'd probably try and give up. I have no point. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye-bye. So that was so lovely. Some little girls came over to say hello to Raymond. And what I liked is it told me a lot about Patrick already. Because he totally took charge in a brilliant way,

in a confident way of that whole encounter. Tells me a lot about you. Does it? Good. Well, I mean, I think Raymond was really in charge. I was just facilitating. But you didn't falter and say, oh, well, it's not my dog. Or they said, can I come over? You said, yes, here you go.

This is Raymond and I thought if I work for this man I'd really feel safe. Well that's very nice of you to say. We don't mind that, do we Raymond? No. Does he make any other noises if he doesn't bark? Does he squeak? Does it disappoint you that he doesn't bark? No, no at all.

Okay. Because what happened was I brought him home and he did a tiny squeak and I said, oh we don't do that. And do you know he never did it again? He listened. Yeah. He made one noise. Once, seven years ago, you said, please, Raymond. And he was like, all right then?

Yeah. It's almost as if you can train them. An astonishing principle. Right, putting his harness on. Yeah. I mean, that really tells you quite a lot about the size of Raymond. At first glance, he's about a meter and a half square. You pop the harness on him and he's the size of a croissant.

Can you imagine what he looks like after he's bathed? He's tiny. Yes. He's not a fast mover, is he? I was going to say, I might put him on the lead. We're just to encourage him. Look, you know, he's moving in the right direction, though, generally. Well, he's got very sort of athletic long legs, and so I feel Raymond is going to struggle unless you put him on the lead.

So let's gently encourage him. There we are. Look, he's broken into a trot already. Oh, yeah. Wait till you see him run, Patrick. I mean, I am looking forward to it. Have you ever taken him to dog a gilligillie? No, do you know what was really embarrassing? Some friends bought me some of that. You know that dog agility equipment you can get?

You know that they can jump on in the garden. And there were tents and poles and, you know, little things for him to jump over. I got it home. I mean, it was ridiculous. He was looking up at it. It may as well have been a size of one of those sort of Dubai towers. He couldn't get anywhere near it. So, oh, look.

Are they Rotties? I think they might be. There was some sort of school sports day going on over there when I cycled up. Oh really? Yeah. Look, I like the school children. I hate to tell you, but I think they were excited at seeing you, and then they got even more excited than they saw Raymond. I mean, he is the main attraction. Everywhere he goes, I imagine.

So, Patrick, I'm so thrilled to have you on this podcast. I'm with the very wonderful Patrick Grant, and we're with my dog Raymond, and we're in Battersea Park because this is kind of handy for you, isn't it, location-wise? Yeah, yeah, this is my ends, roughly. And I'm here with Raymond. You don't have a dog. No, sadly.

Although we had loads, we always had dogs. I did you growing up? Yeah, when I was really little, we had a couple of Labradors, Ginny and Meg, one yellow, one black. Meg was the greediest dog. I think you've ever met. She once ate a whole sack full of frozen butcher's trite. Didn't do her the least bit of harm.

Whole giant bar of Bourneville. That disappeared. It was wrapped up under the Christmas tree. She had that as well. People say dogs can't eat chocolate. Well Meg proved them wrong on that one. So they were great and then we had a couple of spaniels working. springers Chloe and Pippa adorable dogs absolutely the loveliest dogs very well trained my dad and my dad's various of my parents friends were all dog trainers I do apologize Patrick yeah well listen can you see what's happening here well I mean actually I can't because Raymond comes with his own his own vanity curtain he could be doing anything under there I mean I imagine I know what he's

Why is his poo gone? Well, it's a mystery. Well, he didn't like that spot, so he's found another. He's found a better one. He's now staring at the bin that's giving him encouragement. Look, I think you'll be proud of me given what I'm going to talk to you about, because you've written this brilliant book called Les. I started getting, finding it offensive, seeing the way dog poo bags were marketed,

that all this plastic and everyone buys so much of it, and I started making my own poo bags. Have you? I know it's plastic and ideally I should have a Hessian sack but at least these are old. Right, yeah. I was weirdly thinking about this.

I was out, where was I the other day? I was somewhere the other day. Oh, I was in the New Forest. Yeah. And I was walking between Buley and Buckler's Hard on this beautiful stretch of New Forest. I know it. And somebody had,

first of all, I saw just a, a dog poo on the track. That's annoying. And then about five yards later, I saw a dog poo in a bag hung on a barbed wire fence. And that is so much worse. Don't bag it and leave it.

Just leave it. Because now you've put a poo in a bag that's never going to bloody crow agrees. What has he done under there? Is he having a little trouble? I think he's having some trouble. Can you turn away, please? Well, okay.

Maybe he doesn't like the audience. I mean, I wouldn't. It won't come out. I don't know what to do. Oh dear, what have you done? Patrick, this is the worst person this could happen with. I mean, with this refined man. Listen, I once did a mountain marathon called the Low Alpine Mountain Marathon.

It's a two-day orienteded mountain marathon. And at the end of the first day, all of the courses convene in this one spot in the middle of the mountains. So you start Saturday morning, you get given your coordinates, you run for the day, and all of the different courses end up in the same spot, which is in the middle of the mountains. So inaccessible to vehicles, so no Port-a-Looz, no anything. So they dig two trenches, about a foot wide and about 10 meters long.

There is a trench for men and a trench for women. You use the trench, nose to tail. I don't like the sound of that. No. So, Raymond's little adventure here is nothing. I have seen considerably worse. You handled that in such a gentlemanly way.

Right, sorry Crow, he didn't like it. It sounds like you have a wealth of experience when it comes to dogs then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, so to finish that off, we then had an English setter, Oh no, we had an English setter early on called Fleur. She was lovely. And then we had another English setter later called Flora, who was a bit of a nightmare because she liked running away.

And then, oh, hi. Hello. I'm doing a podcast research, Jonathan. Are you? Well, we're doing a podcast right now. Is this your dog, Amanda? It is. He doesn't want to put his nose there.

If I could caution you against that. What's your dog's name? Sorry, you're literally. No, it's lovely to have you on. I'm Emily. Hi, Emily. This is Amanda Wakely. A wet Labrador.

Hello, Wet Labrador. What is her name? Luna. Luna. I'm normally here at 7.30, but I'm doing newsletters and podcasts stuff. Very good. Well, who isn't doing? I mean, there must be how many podcasts you think are being recorded or dreamt up in this park at this moment in time?

I think most of the people here are doing some sort of podcast. Researching one, editing one, recording one, dreaming of one. Well, I loved ours. I'm not going to interact with you. Right. Well, now that I've seen you with a dog, Amanda, I'll be in touch. We can. I will.

Bye. Oh, how nice. That was the lovely Amanda Wakely. And Luna. And Luna. Yeah. So your childhood, Patrick, you grew up in Edinburgh. Edinburgh.

Yep. And I'm quite a fascinating. by your parents because your dad was an accountant wasn't he but he latterly yeah but he started out in the music business didn't he he did well you started out in sort of club club promotion he was the manager of at least one band who at the time were called Dean Clark and the Gay Lords but changed their name to Marmalade and became much more successful and they sang Obla Dee Obladar which the Beatles covered quite successfully.

Did they make a lot of money after that then? Well, they may have done, but sadly all of that was in the period after my dad had stopped being their manager. So, yeah, if they did, he never saw a penny of it. He loved music, absolutely loved music. There was never a moment where we weren't listening to music

if we were going anywhere in the car. But he really loved dancing. He was a champion jiver in his youth. he and his cousin Trish I think we're East of Scotland jive champions at one point in time so they were pretty good and my dad you know I can remember my dad dancing at parties

particularly with my friend Jinky's mum who had been a really good dancer in her youth so they used to dance stuff but my parents were always going to dancers and your mum did she work at the University of Edinburgh she did yeah she was the administrator of the graduate school so she was there for donkey's years I mean she had various other jobs before that But I think probably for the last 20-odd years of her working life,

she was at the graduate school. And they now have a prize in her honour for the student that's made the best contribution to the school sort of all-rounder, which is really nice. Oh, that's so lovely, Patrick. Yeah, and she's still in a book group with a load of academics. Sounds like you had a pretty blissful childhood. Yeah, no, I really did.

I mean, maybe not blissful, but certainly hugely enjoyable. You know, we were always doing stuff. I grew up in the south side of Edinburgh. You know, Edinburgh's an amazing city. I could see the Pentland Hills from my bedroom. I had a tennis court right across, you know, Tennis Club, Morton Hall Tennis Club. I could look out of the window and see whether there were people

on the courts at Morton Hall. The Hermitage of Braid, which is now a nature reserve, was on the other side of the road. And, you know, as kids we had, you know, we were just out the whole time. We did loads and loads of fun stuff. My primary school, South Morningside, this gorgeous little primary school, was just up for best primary school in the country at the TES Awards the other week. I don't know if they won, actually.

I love that you're still proud of that. Well, they got in touch to say, is there any chance you could give us a shout? Look, I don't want to boast around my primary school. And what was the energy like in your home? I always think when with an accountant, I'm assuming quite disciplined and in a good way in terms of there are boundaries and everyone sort of knows where they stand. No, I don't know. My dad, my dad was really interested in a couple of things. He was really interested in rugby and he was instrumental in bringing mini rugby to Scotland.

I hadn't really realised this until he died and then in his obituary, they talked about the fact that he was one of the first people to get mini rugby off the ground in Scotland. But we did that on Sundays and most of my friends in Edinburgh, we all played mini rugby together, even though we were all at various different schools. Edinburgh Wanderers together. So my dad loved that. He loved reading books and he liked the outdoors. And so, you know, our holidays would be hitch up the trailer tent and bugger off somewhere to the Scottish Highlands and hang around. You know, my dad would sit in a chair and read books and we'd all guddle about in streams and do whatever. And that was that was it. But you know,

they're quite famous five. Well, yeah. But I mean, we were always I mean, we lived in the hermitage. We literally knew every root of every tree. You know, we could have walked through that place blindfolded. That was it. We were out there just on our bikes, building stuff, messing about in the river. I don't really know what we did,

but we had a really nice time, had a really nice time whenever it was. You've just literally described the wind in the willows with messing about in the river, and I love that. We used to build a dam, so the tennis club was sort of upstream from the hermitage, and quite often balls would end up in the burn. So we built a little dam where we collected tennis balls,

which we'd then use ourselves. But yeah, we did all sorts. And this was you and your sister? My sister, yeah, but my good friends, you know, lots of my friends who are still friends today, all lived in and around where I did. So, you know, my friend Ali lived across the road and like four houses up.

My friend James was at the other end of the road and down a bit. And we're all still pals now. Is that nice though? Yeah. Yeah. I think that says quite a lot about you and that's good things. Do you know what I mean? Because...

Well, I was just lucky to get a good bunch of people that I really liked them that I still like now. You know, often you find that you drift away from people. There's an element of choice in that, I think. So I'm committing to that and I think it says good things about you. Good. All right. I have that, yeah. What was young Patrick like?

Well, I... Because I get two ideas of you, Patrick. Yeah. I have this idea of you now, which is obviously very abain and sophisticated and refined. And then there's rugby Patrick. I see Patrick standing there with a beautifully tailored jacket, drinking a martini watching the rugby. But no, he's...

playing for the school and you're playing aren't you so well I did all I loved sport I mean I loved rugby I played good you know I was quite good at rugby partly because I'd had a great coach I mean Raymond's like he's like it's like having a walk with a broom I mean he's never picked up this much I think he's a he's a he's a leaf litter collector but what were you like as a kid if a friend's parent was describing you and someone said oh What's that little Patrick like? What would they have said? I don't know.

Well, there's a comment in one of my nursery school reports that my mum takes great pleasure in trotting out, which said that Patrick was the instigator of all classroom disputes. So I was definitely somebody who had strong opinions on things then and wasn't afraid to voice them. So you're quite outspoken. and... Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't, I didn't, I didn't have a completely trouble-free school career, both at the Edinburgh Academy and at Barnacastle. I got on well, latterly, you know, I got on well with my teachers, but I think they might have thought I was a bit of a, I don't know, a bit of a nuisance. I remember writing to my deputy head at Barner Castle for a reference. And he said, well, I mean, I'm delighted, of course, Patrick, to give you a reference.

But I will, of course, have to mention X, Y and Z. And I didn't even know he knew about X, Y and Z. We'd done somebody had been suspended from school, and we didn't like it. We thought it was unjust. We had to go into chapel every day at school. And we'd sing a hymn and hear a lesson and, you know, they'd read announcements or whatever. So one of my friends and I, or maybe a couple of us, we went into the chapel at night. We hid all the hymn books.

So that when the organ started, we left the ones for the teachers, but we took the whole of the school's hymn books away. And so when the music started playing, nobody sang. And the headmaster was absolutely incandescent with rage. Sing, damn you, sing, you shouted. And, of course, nobody had any hymn books. Nobody could sing a word. But I didn't get in trouble for it at the time, but it was interesting that my deputy head did know about it. But I'm seeing signs there of you, I'm not saying I'm agreeing with the nursery teacher report, but the instigator, so you're the changemaker, aren't you?

Why don't we do this? Maybe that's, I mean, that's, I'll take, yeah, we'll call it change making, yeah, how about that? We'll call bad behaviours. Yeah, we'll rebrand naughtiness as changemaking. When did the interest in fashion and textiles and that whole world, when did that start? Was there a family history of that? Well, I don't really remember a time when I wasn't interested in clothes. Even as a child?

Yeah, even as a child. I was really opinionated about a war. Actually, my nephew's a bit the same. My youngest nephew is a bit the same. You know, he goes off and changes his clothes like four times a day. And I don't know if I was doing that. I always remember being very aware of the impact the clothes I was wearing had on me and potentially on others. And so I was really interested in what I was wearing and how it all looked.

And my first day at school, I was really, really pleased to be wearing my uniform and my socks are fully pulled up and my tie is perfect in the centre of the V of my jumper. And it just looks, you know, everything is just right. And I think partly because I really like the way my dad dress. My dad was always well put together, always cared for his clothes really carefully. And I think things like he would always put his clothes away, he would always make sure his shoes were well polished. I remember thinking after he died, I was polishing my shoes and it occurred to me that I was polishing my shoes with exactly the same rhythm that my dad was polishing his shoes. You know, there was just a, that's how, that's how he polished them.

Don't do that. These sort of things stick with you. And so, yeah, I'd always, I mean, my granddad did actually work in the textiles industry, but I wasn't really, he had worked in the textiles industry, but it was before I was really aware of it. In fact, he might, you know, my granny remarried. So when we were growing up, my granny lived with us in our house in Edinburgh, which was great, because I loved my granny.

And she lived on the ground floor, and my parents and sister and I lived on the top two floors. They bought the house together. And it just meant, you know, we saw a lot of her. That's a great idea that intergenerational living, I think, is brilliant. Yeah. She had been widowed in the war, but she remet Ali, my granddad, in her, I guess in her 60s maybe. Maybe late 50s. I'm loving her.

Inspirational woman. Yeah. And, you know, she must have been in her 60s. And so she remarried and then moved out and moved in with Ali. But his job at the time was as the borders development officer. And obviously the borders had been a huge textiles region. You know, in a lot of towns in the borders, textile manufacturing, garment manufacturing, knitting had been by far the predominant employer.

And it was his job to find new industry to replace that when all of this stuff started going offshore. So I was very aware of the, you know, the empty mill buildings. And the social decline that was happening alongside that. It wasn't just about a loss of money to these people. It was about a loss of a whole way of living. It was a loss of pride. It was a loss of a sense of community.

All of these things. And these are very, very proud and very, you know, even still today, actually, there is still a lot of, they are strong communities in the borders. But the absence of this stuff was very, very keenly felt. And I was aware of that. And, you know, I was just, as a kid, I was just into fashion. You know, I just always liked clothes. And I remember sort of, you know, coming to an agreement with my parents that they wouldn't buy my clothes or my mum, she wouldn't buy my clothes. really quite young.

You know, I was like, that's it, I'm just going to choose this stuff now. You knew what you... Because I knew what I wanted. Yeah. And I was very specific about it. And it was really important to me that it was right. It's an interesting thing that, Patrick.

Do you think that you're born, I suppose, with an interest or a sense of style from want of a better phrase? Because I remember a friend wants saying to me that if you know how to dress, you sort of assume everyone knows. But I really respect her. She said, I don't understand it.

I don't have a clue and I don't know what goes with what and I don't know. Do you think that's something you're born with? Does it come from a parental influence? I think it's probably a bit of both. You know, I think the difference between being well-dressed and not being well-dressed is all about subtleties. And I think there is a really interesting language in clothing. I don't know.

It's a bit like an orchestra. You know, you can have all the instruments there. but if they're not playing in tune, the whole thing is an absolute, you know, is a cacophony. I think it's the same with clothes. You could take two people and give them exactly the same garments to wear, and one of them would look great in it and one of them wouldn't. And I think it's just about understanding the relationships between all of these things. There is a language in clothing.

I think you can have a certain innate sense of colour and shape, but I think, you have to learn the language. And for me, I was always, always pouring through pictures of clothes as a kid. You know, I did read, you know, I read the fashion mags, I read the women's fashion mags because there weren't men's fashion mags, but there was always men's wear in the women's fashion mags on a kind of quarterly basis. You know, that was just always looking at old pictures. And, you know, you would see somebody that looked great and you would understand what it,

you know, you either see it and understand why it is. that it looks great or you don't and then you develop a sense of your own personal style I think once you've once you've understood the language once you've learnt the language then you can develop your own way of saying it Raymond's got a lovely pace about him he's he's unbothered by the pace of others do you know what Raymond is Patrick yeah I'm gonna call him a change maker Raymond is an advocate for a slower way of life. See lampost?

Sniff lampost. Well, you've been advising us all to do that, to be a bit more Raymond. Stop and smell the flowers and all that. Yeah, exactly. It is recognising that the things that actually make us happy are not the things that we are being sold all the time. And in fact, we could all make ourselves a great deal happier by ignoring 99.9% of what we're being sold.

Because the things that do make us happy are, you know, sniffing a lamppost and walking in the park. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog. If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.