Walking The Dog with Emily Dean - Phil Wang (Part One)

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

This week Emily and Ray met the brilliant comedian Phil Wang for a stroll round Peckham Rye Park! Phil is a former dog-hater, but he and Raymond got on very well. Phil even offered to carry Ray and gave him a whole new perspective on the world. After being born in the same hospital as Robbie Williams - Phil spent what he describes as a ‘nice but boring’ childhood growing up in Malaysia, before moving back to the UK for school and university. Phil tells us about how he embraces otherness and being an escapist - and he reveals why he is very cautious about long grass. Phil’s absolutely hilarious new special Wang In There, Baby! is available on Netflix nowOrder Phil’s book Sidesplitter: How To Be From Two Worlds At Once hereBudPod with Phil Wang and Pierre Novellie is available wherever you get your podcasts!Follow Phil on Instagram @wangpixFollow Emily: Instagram - @emilyrebeccadeanX - @divine_miss_emWalking The Dog is produced by Faye LawrenceMusic: Rich Jarman Artwork: Alice LudlamPhotography: Karla Gowlett  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I remember watching two of our dogs pull a snake in half. One dog grabbed the snake by the head and the other grabbed the snake by the tail and they just sort pulled each other apart like the snake was, I'd find guilty in the Spanish Inquisition or something, you know? This week on walking the dog, Ray and I popped over to South East London to take a stroll with the incredibly funny comedian Phil Wang. Phil doesn't have a dog himself, but he did have dogs growing up in Borneo, not the kind of dogs that spend their time lying on blush pink cushions like Ray,

no, Phil had the kind of dogs that killed actual snakes, so I couldn't wait to find out more. Phil, you'll obviously know from his regular TV appearances on shows like Taskmaster, have I got news for you and eight out of ten cats, along with his sold-out stand-up shows. But he's also one of those comedians who you only ever hear good things about, and having spent a very funny and very joy. joyous afternoon with him. I can honestly confirm he's the walking definition of nice guys finish first.

I mean, in fairness, all guys finish first when they're walking with Ray because Ray walks at zero miles an hour. But you get the general picture. I loved my walk with Phil and I also absolutely loved his new Netflix special, Wang in Their Baby, which is out today. So do get watching it as soon as you've listened to this because it's so brilliantly funny and I know you'll love it just as much as I did. also really recommend his book, Side Splitter, How to Be from Two Worlds at Once. If you haven't read it already, do order a copy from Amazon, because it's one of those beautifully written books that also has you laughing on every page. I'm going to stop talking now and hand over to the wonderful man himself. Here's Phil and Ray Ray.

Phil Wang, this podcast is beginning with you just laughing at my dog. He's very funny. I don't even have ever seen a dog like this. Really? Yeah. No. I'm so pleased to meet Ray because I don't think I've ever met a shit-toe before. Really?

I've only ever known shit-toes from like the joke. Was it you walking in a zoo and there's a dog there and you go, oh, shit zoo? I mean, you've mangled it a bit which surprises me as one of the funniest men on the planet. What is the actual joke? Do you remember it? It's something like... I just wanted to hit all the logical.

points. I was just trying to express the joke. I didn't want to tell it. I get very uncomfortable by actually telling jokes. I like to instead describe them. Do you? Do you not like that sort of traditional jokes? In conversation, I hate telling jokes. I find it too embarrassing. As a comedian to tell jokes in conversation, I think is humiliating. You know? It's like a musician just started playing songs at a party or walking around the park. It'd be intolerable. I don't think I've ever seen a dog like that. When you're, I don't think I've ever seen a dog like that. he turned up with him, I was stunned. I thought Claudia Winkleman's hair had run legs. I've never seen anything like it. He's like a tiny, he's like Cousinette shrank.

He is. I'm going to pick him up because he's slowing us down a bit, Phil. But you strike me already as quite a good-natured patient sort. Oh, yeah. Are you? I don't think it's out of any virtue. I think I'm just too lazy to do anything else. I'm too lazy to be animated or angry with things. people think I'm peaceful without a choice I'm just too lazy to be

to be aggressive here we go Ray I might just hold on to him Phil while there's those big what I call police dogs the Alsatians oh yes I also associate those with those police

displays when they jump through the fire hoops yes or they burst into a drugs compound with like armour on them or something You know what's interesting, when you're with a dog, you notice other dogs more. Is this the thing?

I didn't even notice these other dogs were here until you picked up Ray. Do you see Ray? So, yeah, Ray is a Shih Tzu. Which is a Chinese name. Yeah. Do you know what it means? I don't know what it means. I do. What does it mean?

Some type of flower. Oh, that's sweet. I think. Oh, no, hang on, maybe I've got that wrong. Somewhere out there is a flower that looks like Lodi went coming to. It's hard than that, but you know, maybe it means... So you probably know, Claudia, but... Lion dog.

Lion dog? I wonder what type of... what language it is. Shih Tzu sounds Mandarin to me. Does it? Yeah. You speak Mandarin, do you feel? Not enough to know dog breeds or the meanings of dog breed names. I think Shih Tzu means lion dog.

Originally, they were the Emperor's dogs. I'm going to look this up now. Yes, right. And it was illegal to have one outside the royal palace. Yeah, that's very Chinese, isn't it? Everything was illegal outside the palace. It's all for a palace. Okay, Shih Tzu meaning...

A dog... No, that's not the meaning. They're just telling me what a Shih Tzu is. What does name Shih Tzu mean? Oh, well, there you go, little lion. Your Mandarin is officially better than mine. Oh, I speak Mandarin. There you go.

Little Lion. That's sweet. Oh, Phil Wine, what a beautiful part this is. Yes, this is Peckham Rye Park and we're in the sort of more gardeny bit towards the south end. The north end is a big sort of expanse that's very popular in London. The kind of blank park you could put an intimidating weekend festival in. But the southern end of the park is sort of this garden-y, forested area which is really lovely.

Should we go up there? Yeah. I like this. It looks like a bit of a woody enclave. You know he's very quiet which I think is the most important feature of any good dog. I hate dogs. I used to hate dogs which in the in the UK is a more dangerous thing to say I've killed 12 people. People in this country are obsessed with dogs and

And the worst thing a person can do is not like a dog. And so I used to have to keep this very quiet, just my dirty little secret, I didn't like dogs. But then I met some smart dogs, some good dogs, some sweet dogs. I was filming some pilot for something I had to try out being a dog walker for a bit. And I was handed all these dogs and was terrified. But two of them were these collies. And they were so smart and so cool.

I found myself wanting to impress them I was like oh god I was like you know waxing my hair back and trying to taste my breath and stuff I was like he's a dog so impressed and then I had a girlfriend who had a very sweet dog and

quiet dog and I kind of I grew to very like that dog very much and now I understand that there are good dogs and bad dogs but a yappy dog is the worst thing in the world I know long I don't have like a general Oh, any dog is lovely, a good dog is wonderful, but a yappy horrible dog is the bane of...

Well, I do think dogs are kind of like human beings in that, you know, some you warm to, some you really don't. But with people I'm not like, oh, I like any very silent person, because some of them can be scary. I've never met the quiet dog that was scary. A quiet person can be scary, right? That's true. It's always the quiet ones, they say. Do you think that's what I should put on Ray's episode? off when he leaves us.

Well, Phil Wang, I'm delighted you've agreed to do my podcast because I am a huge fan of yours. Likewise. It's very kind of you to say. You don't have a dog. No. But you've just met Ray and I, I have to say, I think it's gone pretty well. Do you? Yeah. I found out to tell if a dog likes a person or not. I always assume people are being polite when they say, oh, he likes you. Is there any truth behind it when you say that?

Sometimes I do lie. Yeah. But in this instance... How can you tell? Let him likes me. He's twerking a bit. I do have that effect on people. So, let's get back to your

origins. So where did Phil Wang, baby Phil Wang, where did he pop up first? He made his debut in Stoke-on-Trent in England, where my mum is from. That's where I was born. My parents were here.

My mum had sort of moved out to Malaysia by that point to be with Dad, but they were back in the UK for a bit and I very conveniently popped out during that time and stayed for about three weeks in Stoke and then went back to Malaysia. So I was born in England but I don't remember any of it. Same hospital as Robbie Williams? Yes, yes, another good old Stoke boy.

Robbie and I are very much cut from the same cloth. Biden would tell you that, you already knew that. Have you met him? I haven't, I'd love to. I'm honest. a fan. I think he's the greatest British pop singer of the 21st century. Do you know what? I met him and I know this sounds like a real cliche when people say this but he really was one of the most normal pop stars I think I've ever met. Because all you ever hear about him is that he sort of believes in aliens and is a bit eccentric. Well there's that. But we've all got our quirks. I mean stop nitpicking

Phil. But what I mean by normal was didn't ignore you if you weren't Elton John. Oh, fair enough, yeah. Do you know what I mean? I do find it odd when famous people have been famous for a while aren't completely disabused of the glamour of fame. You know what I mean? I mean, when I first met, started meeting famous people when I got into this beers, I all thought, wow, oh God, here, him, wow. And now I'm not, This makes it sound like I'm just with famous people all the time. I'm really not. But I've met enough that I know, they're just people.

They're just people who are famous because they wear a hat or they are say silly things or they can hold a tune. But they're just people. I now actively avoid meeting, like comedy heroes, for example. I just, I once give an opportunity to meet someone I really admired for ages. And I said, actually, no. He was literally five feet away I knew the producer I said, do you want to meet him? I said, nah

It's all right. What is that, Phil? I don't think I had anything. I think it'd only spoil it. Well, I think that shows quite a lot of self-discipline. That tells me quite a bit about you. Oh, really? Yeah, that's self-restraint, isn't it?

You're doing the harder thing for what you think will have the long-term gain to you. I hope it's self-restraint and not just self-denial. I think I sometimes might be guilty. of denying myself nice things because I just feel it's better not to have them. You said to yourself, you sometimes have social anxiety. Yeah, well, it used to be social anxiety. Now that I understand myself better, I just know I run out of social juice very quick.

I run out of people juice very quick. I get it. I'll bear that in mind with this. Oh, no, this is fine. This is just a... Is it? Yeah, there's just a couple of us in a park. I mean, like...

You mean at parties and things? Yeah, parties... or just of being around lots of people in the day or having to keep up conversations with lots of people over the course of the day. But it's not good for my line of work. You're meant to be a people person lately. Are you quite noise sensitive? Yeah.

Yeah, I hate noises. I hate little noises. I say that because... I hate persistent noises. I saw you not long ago at Mutual Powell's Party. It was David Bedele's birthday. Yes. first day.

Yeah, yeah. You had ear plugs in? Yeah, yeah. I bring little ear plugs with me to parties now. If I think something's going to be noisy, I went to a very loud gig a year and a bit ago, and it just made my ears a bit weird. I have to put plugs in.

If I think something's going to be too loud, if things are too loud, it kind of reverberates in my ears in an unpleasant way. So I have to put little plugs in. I notice, because I wear them a lot as well. Oh, yeah. I've never not slept in the,

Funny enough, I don't mind sort of like things like planes or lorries or big noises. It's little noises that I really struggle with. Yeah. Tapping. A little dripping. If I'm sitting in a train and I can hear someone tapping or an older person with one of those, you know, I mean I'm older, but at least I know not to do this, has one of those wallet phones.

And as soon as I see the pensioner leather wallet phone, I leave the carriage. I know you're about to hear some keyboard. I know I'm going to hear... D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D... For the next two and a half hours. Yeah. You know what really gets me is noise that...

A noise that is the product of rudeness. So people playing things on their phone out loud on the train. Or if there's something... If it's because someone's being rude or I'm thoughtless, it really gets at me more. Yeah. You know? an animal is making a noise.

Actually, that annoys me too. I live in there with a lot of foxes, and they just scream and squeal all night, and I hate them so much. Also, they're sex maniacs, though. Although, you know, I seem that whenever they were screaming, they were just having painful sex, and I thought, well, whatever, that's just nature.

The other night, there was one screaming right outside my house, and I opened the window, I looked out, I assumed it was having rough sex. And it was on its own. It just sat on the ground looking at my house, looking at me in the window, just screaming. Ah! And I thought, this is personal now. This is about me.

This actually is about me. Do you know, Phil, I'm enjoying chatting to you so much. I just feel so at ease with you. I can't explain it. I don't often get this feeling. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I just feel very comfortable with you instantly.

Oh good. So as a result, I've completely abandoned all the format here and just plunged into chat. But I want to get back a bit to Little Wang. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. So your parent, who I love the Sound Off, by the way. My parents are from the book. Yeah. I read all about your parents in your brilliant book, Side Splitter, which was published, was it sort of about 18 months ago or something? A while ago. No, no, even long in 2021.

Yeah. People are still talking about it. But which I mean you... No, I absolutely loved it, Phil. I think you write beautifully for a start. Oh, thank you. And you talk about... I suppose how it's a bit complicated for you

because people always say to you, where are you from? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where are you from? Because they're confused. People always mean it well. They're confused because I look like this It's also sound like this.

My accent changes. Some people think I sound quite American. I think I sound quite English now. But sometimes people go, where in the States are you from? And like the other day, I got a lift. And some people who were in the TV recording, I just got in,

they asked, very nicely asked, so where are you from? And I said, oh, I've come up from London, but I'm originally from Malaysia. So I always cover both. grounds so I don't embarrass anyone and I could and then they were like oh no yeah London that's what you meant yeah and then people sometimes people like cover

themselves afterwards because they're embarrassed but I think our society is such now that and it's so sensitive now that I'm actually covering for people's feelings I never think people mean badly from the question I was trying to be nice when they say where are you from yeah yeah but I guess you have to say You know, I always say about feminism, would someone do that to a man? And I think the same thing, that would you say to a white person? Yeah. Where are you from?

And I think if the answers no, then it probably does count as possibly rude. I suppose so. But if a white person had a very strong accent, say, would you ask where they were from? Probably, wouldn't you? I know. I was trying to be as understanding as possible. I always assume people mean well. But the question's always more confusing for myself more than anyone else.

I just think, yeah, and the book is trying to address the question for myself really more than anyone else. This little one likes Ray, I think. Oh. Oh, is that a beagle? Yeah. They're so lovely. Oh, my friend called them hush puppies. Oh, yeah.

Are they basset? Is that Bassett? Yeah, I'm in too deep already. What is the name? What's your dog called? Margo. Margo? Margo. What a lovely name. This is Raymond. Hi, Raymond.

What a great name. Margo and Raymond are quite a nice 1970s couple. Another doggy. Nice to meet you. Bye-bye, Margo. May I hold Ray for a bit? Is that okay? Am I allowed? Is there a technique? May I? You seem on show about it? No, do you know, I'm really quite touched that you're asked.

Oh, you're making a face like, oh God, how do I say no to this creep? That was my I'm quite moved face. How do I hope? So there you go. Ah. He's so small. I can feel his heart beating very quickly. Is that normal or does he have feelings for me?

I think he likes you. Really? Oh, he's so comfy to hold. so fluffy and hairy. There's hair everywhere all over my arms. Do you know he loves being with you Phil because also, oh which way should we go back in that way? Yeah yeah yeah let's go in there. You've got the extra height as well. Ah, he's saying things he's never seen before. It's like with me he's in a mini cooper with you he's clambered into a range rover. That whole world has changed for him. He's a much more aggressive driver now. Yeah. He's going to get the attitude of a lorry

driver now. So Phil, yeah, the back story is, as you say, you were born in Stoke in, Stoke. in Malaysia. And then your parents relocated there because that's where your dad was from originally. Well, not originally,

actually. They didn't relocate there. They were based there, and then I just happened to be born in the UK. Your mum, she was, um, was it archaeology? She went out to Malaysia first as an archaeologist. to volunteer with the Saabah Museum. Sabah is the name of the state I grew up in.

And so she was there with a bunch of volunteers from all over. I think maybe mainly from the UK, the Volunteer Service Organization, I think it's called VSO. It still exists now. And one day a friend of hers in Sava said, I'm taking up some martial arts lessons. Do you want to join? And she went, sure.

And she turned up and my father was, their instructor and and that's how they met which is a sweet story and there's a kind of story I fear it's starting to go extinct in the modern age what do you think why because of dating apps and meeting online you just don't have these I just feel like in the future so many of these stories were like well your mother and I will happen to both be on the toilet at the same time and living some roughly in the same three-mile radius and the rest is history. And your dad, Benny, was that his job, Phil?

Was he a martial arts instructor then? That was his of passion, his hobby. Because he was an engineer, yeah. How lovely that they met, bonded over that sort of shared interest really as well. Although quite an unusual place to... For love to blossom. Yeah, would you say? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess a beautiful flower grew in violent soils, you could say.

But also it's an intimate setting. Maybe it's like taking tango lessons, right? There's a lot of physical contact and close proximity. So your mum, presumably, after she'd met your dad, did she come back home and just say to her parents, right, I've met the man I'm going to marry. Plans have changed. I'm now going to live in Borneo.

But, guys, this is a good... Full-time, you know. I think it just sort of turned out. That's where. I feel like British families don't really talk to each other that much. Anyway, I reckon it just got to like 10 years, and my grandparents thought, I haven't seen Maddie in a while. No, I presume they had the chat at some point,

but my grandmother herself was French and so moved over from France to England to be with my grandfather. So I think the idea of moving around was... what was not alien to them, you know? And your dad was Chinese-Malaysian. And people often get confused by that, don't then? You have to explain to them. It's Chinese, but Malaysia is the nation.

China is an ethnicity. That's right. People, I say to people, I'm Malaysian, I'm Chinese, meaning ethnically Chinese, and they go, I thought you were Malaysian. Yeah, well, yeah. It's like, it's odd because British people are very, you know, They're very comfortable with the idea of, you know, you can be Indian British or Caribbean British. People are, yeah, that makes sense.

But when it comes to another country, I think people assume other countries are homogenous ethnically. China's where Chinese people come from. Japan is Japanese people come from. Malaysia is where Malaysian people come from. But there's no such thing as Malaysian ethnicity. They're the Malaysians, the Indians and the Chinese. They're the main groups that make up Malaysia. So that meant that because your parents, your mum went to live with your dad, obviously,

and they got married, presumably. And then you arrived. What was it like, Phil? What was it like growing up in Borneo? I know that's a weird question. It's like saying, what was it like growing up in England? I wonder, you've written about your childhood in your brilliant book, Side Splitter. And you gave a, I got a really vivid sense of it, actually,

Just the sense that it sounds like this incredible sense of an extended family who were sort of always there. Yes, yeah, yeah. My father had, he was one of seven siblings. And so we had lots of cousins and we were just always hanging out. That's who would spend time with on the weekends. Go to the shopping centre with your cousins. That's all really what's to do. And the beach and maybe it's the occasional swimming pool.

There are a lot of beach resorts because I, you know, I grew up in an area of natural beauty, as they say. Apparently KKKKKKKKKKKKKKK-Knovalu. I grew up one of the best sunsets in the world. I didn't know this at the time, but we didn't have listicles back then. And it turns out that the whole time I was taking for granted one of the top 10 sunsets in the world. Sorry, Philbert. You're sounding a little boastful. You don't mind me saying. All I'm saying is you get a lot of these things are relative. I didn't realize at the time.

And so I thought sort of like resorts and beaches and beautiful sunsets were normal. And then I moved to the UK and it took me a while to care about people's holidays to sunny places. Because it's like, yeah, that's just childhood, isn't it? I very do remember you had a couple of dogs Yes In Borneo but I get the sense that rather than Oh come here Poppy They were much more can you go and kill that snake please?

He has very much guard dog yeah I remember Watching two of our dogs Pull a snake in a half There's a snake Okay we're going to have to go back of it Phil What the hell happened? I want to put Ray down Please do you might find this distressing

to hear about. But there was a snake, we always had snakes wriggling into the garden. And I heard the dogs barking one day and looked out into the garden and they were barking one at one end, one

at the other end, this snake on the grass. And one dog grabbed the snake by the head and the other grabbed the snake by the tail and they just sort pulled each other apart like the snake was, had been found guilty in the Spanish Inquisition or something, you know? And it just kept pulling and pulling.

And then the snake just went and split in half. And the back tail end just kept wriggling on the grass. And the dogs were freaking out of this tail and a buck in the tail. And while the dogs were distracted by the tail, the head half of the snake wriggled away to begin its new life. It's still running that snake. It's still out there somewhere. I like to think.

I've got a whole new family in the countryside. Do you know, I love that it... wearing a straw hat. I love that it began its new life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it had a fresh start. Exactly. That attack was the best thing

that ever happened, though, is Nick. It had needed a bit of a rebrand. It was like, it was an extreme makeover. That's right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's basically the equivalent of getting a really short haircut. How would you describe your sort of childhood environment? I'm getting the sense that, like I said, it was very lively and warm and slightly different from the kind of traditional British set up in some ways.

And this is something you write about in your book. It feels like much less of a focus on that sort of tight nuclear family in your childhood, wasn't there? It was much more... The families are more sprawling, more extended. And it wasn't the case with us because they weren't around anymore, but it's quite common for grandparents to be. living in the same house. Yeah, I think that's quite an Asian thing in general. For anyone who lived in a remote place, it's similar, the childhood was nice but boring.

It was just a bit boring. When you're a young person, you know, your proximity to ancient rainforest doesn't mean all that much to you. It's not exactly a pumping social hub, the mangroves of Borneo. And so you become an escapist. And I was lucky enough to be alive at the time of film and TV and particularly video games. And so I think it drove me into escapism. I think when sort of quiet, shy people are in a boring place, they find escapism in books and films and TV and such. So I sometimes wonder if I'd grown up somewhere

with a little more of a social life, if I wouldn't be a comedian, because I wouldn't be so immersed in culture, you know. Well, you're expending all your energy socially all the time, aren't you? If you're that kind of person. Exactly, yes. You're storing up your reserve, saving up your reserves. That's it, that's it.

Because we weren't linked up enough transport-wise to, like, hang out as kids. You know, you needed a car, basically, to get anywhere. And so... And it was you and... Is it two sisters you've got, Phil? Two younger sisters. Yeah, two young sisters. What was your sort of family vibe like?

Were your parents quite... Did they have rules? Were they quite sort of less fair or progressive or were they strict? They... I think for like an Asian dad, my dad was very lenient. And mum is basically... is basically quite happy-ish. And so we were always told, you know,

the important thing is that you're happy and that you tried your best and all the sort of thing. But sometimes it was clearly they also wanted, try your best, you know, it is still a charge, isn't it? It's still like, don't let yourself down. And I think I internalized that. And I was very studious. But they were very good parents.

and and no I wouldn't say they were they were mega strict my my friends at school were like were astonished that I didn't get hit at home they were like didn't your parents don't hit you if you do something bad and said no and they're like wow you've got it made was that quite common then where you grew up yeah yeah I mean you got cane at school as well I got I got came to a couple of times at school oh we probably shouldn't walk in the long grass here should we should you walk through here I think we'll be all right Phil can you get out the other No, I think we're kind of fenced in.

Are we trapped in here? Can we turn back? All the stock of Borneo has made me nervous about walking into this slightly longer grass. Yes, I did thought it was quite odd when you said we shouldn't go into the longer grass. And it's about... Why did you say that? I've got snakes on the brain. And in Malaysia, you have to keep the grass short because otherwise snakes will go in it.

It's hide. Oh, Phil, but we are in Peckham. I don't think there are snakes here. I mean, there might be. No, probably not. And your dad, did your dad have a good sense of humour? Does? He's still with us, isn't he, Phil?

Yes, yes. Did you get that sense of humour, Phil? Did that start, was that a thing for you at a young age? You know, that sense that you were funny and could make people laugh. And particularly often it starts when you make an adult laugh. I say it. I think I made my mum laugh a few times and I thought that was brilliant. Yeah.

And I had funny friends at school. I wasn't by no means of funiest of school. That was my friend Ranking. He was the funniest kid in school. I think Jerry Seinfeld talks about how comedians, professional comedians, always have a friend at school who was funnier than them. And for me, that was Ranking. But my parents, you know, aren't exactly jokesters. My grandfather on my mom's side always told jokes in that sort of old-fashioned way of her having

having a list of jokes and he'd say from time to time. But my sisters were funny. I think it's my sisters and I that garnered my sense of humor and the things I watched, like The Simpsons and things like that. But when I won my first competition, when I was at university, I won a total student comedian award in 2010. And the local paper and bath where we moved to, when he moved back to the UK, interviewed my mother about it.

And they asked her, where does he get it from? His being funny, where does it come from? And mum just went, I don't know, it doesn't come from anywhere, I don't think. You did tell a joke once. Once. And I've never been allowed to forget it. No, but you told your dad a joke once, because you said you didn't make your dad laugh that often

because I don't feel that was really your dynamic. No, it wasn't. There were some moments that really stood out. and there was a joke that you told him, which was actually about a dog. It was about a dog, yeah, fittingly. He loved that, didn't he? Yeah, I'll tell the joke now then. I know I said earlier that I hate telling jokes, but I'll try for you, Emily.

And the joke goes, yeah, we were driving in the car, I was driving, and I said, oh, I heard this joke today. And how old were you at this? About 10? 10, 11, yeah. And the joke goes, there's a guy who's just started dating a new girlfriend. and she invites him over to have dinner with the parents. And obviously it's a big deal. It's the first time he's the parents. And the father's a bit of a hard ass.

And the boyfriend, you know, is concerned about not embarrassing himself. And so they sit down to dinner. And the family dog Rover runs under the table and to his usual spot and sort of gnaws on his turkey leg under the table or whatever. And the boyfriend sort of halfway through the meal, finds he's built up a bit of gas, you know, and he goes, oh, I really need to get rid of the pressure here. I don't want to make it obvious by going to the bathroom. I'll just let a quiet one out.

Let's a little quiet fart out. No one hears it, but people start to smell something's off, and the father does as well. And the father goes, Rover. And the boyfriend goes, oh, great. The dog's getting the blame for this. Fantastic. I'm on to a winner here. And a couple of minutes later, he builds up some gas again.

He goes, I'm going to be a little bowl. this time and let's a fart and this one's a little bit loud you can it's got a little bit of a baritone one this one and the father hears the fart and smells and it goes rover a few minutes later he's built up more gas and this time he's he's high off his own supply and also off of of his ability to to blame the dog for his farts and he lets off a really loud fart a disgusting one wet one horrible one and the father goes rover get out of there before he shits on you. And my father started weeping at the wheel. Just like he could barely

keep the car straight. He couldn't believe it. He was laughing so hard and just wheezing and weeping and I was just watching him fascinated. I'd never seen him laugh like that. And and I haven't seen him laugh like that since. He just, I can never guess what's going to get him going and that was the first time I just really saw him lose it and it's a kind of joke I think that Malaysian men of a particular generation really like but I don't know if I don't know if any of the stand-up I've ever done this way to him laugh as much as that that's why I've been chasing all these years is to find a joke as funny as the rover joke that must have been really lovely to have had that response from him though I think the things like that stick in your memory as a kid that you feel

happy. I think what you're getting a sense of maybe is an early sense of controlling the room and there's like power, shift in power that comes with that, which is quite heady when you're a kid as well. It is. And it's also a feeling of being a part of the adult world, or being allowed this brief foray into the adult world where your words mean something or can have, like you say, an effect on grown-ups. And how about your mum, your relationship with your mum. Were you close to her, Phil? Are you close to her?

Yes, yes, yeah, totally. Yeah, and... Who was the person you went to when, I suppose, you had a problem or you were upset? Oh, your mum, I suppose. If I went to anyone, I usually kept it bottled up

because I found it too embarrassing to talk about anything like that. Did you? Yeah, yeah, I find it humiliating. So I just held on. I usually just held onto it until it went away. I do think this idea that repressed emotions eventually bubble up and explode, but I don't think

that's true. I think they can just go away and we forget that. So I'm saying people repress more, actually, and you actually be fine. My mum, yeah, my mum has been very influential to me. She's just a very thoughtful, clever person, very patient. She sounds pretty amazing. She's cool, yeah, and like pretty adventurous. Yeah.

But then also gets terrified of the smallest thing her children do. She's always scared we're going to get hurt. She was very protective. I guess if there's anything I could say against her, she was very, very protective. And I think maybe a little overprotective of us. Was Benny protective? No, no.

No. All he ever said to me was don't trust anyone. Five minutes early is on time. And aetring it is actually a lot of money, which is about £1.20. Your parents decided to relocate here when you were about... Were you 16? Yes, yeah, 16. Moved to Bath. Why was that, Phil?

Was that a work thing? Well, no, it just kind of like happened. We just sort of kept talking about moving to the UK and then suddenly we were on a plane and doing it. It was about getting a British education and going to university here. And you have to be here for a certain amount of time to go to university here.

And so that's what we did, yeah. And did you talk when you were younger? Did you have discussions with your family about what you were going to do in terms of, did you ever say, I think I'm going to be a comic or was that not really on me? The first thing I ever wanted to be was a class. I was like eight years old. I told everyone I'm going to be a clown when I grow up.

And like in the old-fashioned like red nose, painted face running around a circus. And they're like, yeah, right, whatever. And then I found that I really enjoyed science and maths. And so I thought, oh, I'll become a scientist, a physicist. And that became an engineer because my father's an engineer. And so at school, I studied maths and physics, mostly. And did you enjoy it, Phil? some physics. I loved it. What I loved most about physics is that I found it extremely easy. And I'm very lazy. So my favourite things are things that are easy. And I found physics really easy. Oh, Phil, I'm so jealous of you. I'm in awe of people with your kind of brain.

Well, I found other things very hard. I found biology impossible because I just have a lot of memorizing. And you came over to school. You lived in Bath, didn't you? Yeah. And there was something I read in your book. which kind of I suppose shocked me which shouldn't shock me it shows I suppose a lot of naivety and a lack of awareness on my part but I'm even shocked by this but I was do you experienced I mean it'd be kind to call them microaggressions right yes there were things like when you arrived at your school you found you're in dormitory with I've been placing a study with two guys from my

Hong Kong because I just sort of assumed I would get on with them. And because I was a new student there and most of the students had been a few years and were able to choose studies with their friends or whatever. And so the newest students were sort of assigned randomly, well, as it turned out, not so randomly with other students. And I found I was just in a room with a Hong Kong guy and a Hong Kong Japanese guy. And presumably it wasn't, there weren't that many Asians at the school. school. No, no. And the ones that were mostly people from Hong Kong and China who had been

sent by their parents to, you know, a British school to pick up. A British education has a lot of value out in the East. And that's probably what that was. But yeah, I was just assumed because my surname was Wang that I'd get on with Lyong and Inui. I was, you know, I mean, I think it came from a decent place. I think they saw Easton. Asian kids mostly just hung out with each other anyway and they thought, oh well, that's where he'll be most comfortable. But there was no effort. But it's extraordinary. I mean, what do you assume that people with, let's put all the redheads in the same group together? I know. Yeah. I mean, I actually think we should, but that's a separate issue. I'm looking up a, yeah, a redheaded producer.

She does bond with all the redheads. That's a whole other broadcast. So... Yeah, but it was just small things like that and, you know, being told that my English was very good and things like that, even though English is my first language and always really has been. But I, you know, I didn't find these things too painful, to be honest. They were just a bit. They just make it harder for you to forget you stick out.

That's all it really is. Yeah. But then if I didn't feel like I stuck out, I probably wouldn't have done stand-up because stand-up is the ultimate exercise in sticking out, you know? Stand-up was my way of just really grasping the nettle, that's the phrase, isn't it? Of standing out. Because you're really interesting on this whole subject of otherness. Ah.

And this sense of, oh, here we can go. Phil, we can go here. Oh, it's good, eh? I think we finally found a bench. And away from the long grass, because I feel you've got a bit of a hangover, a Malaysian hangover regarding the long grass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realise that until today.

You've unearthed an old, an ancient, an old trauma that I thought I was over. This suits all our needs this bench. Oh, this is a cool bench too. It's kind of like modernist mid-century vibes. It's like something. We've reached this bench. I know we're a bit pathetic getting excited, but we've silently, we've been giving up hope that we'd find a bench in the shade.

It was like we were the most demanding Foxton's clients. And we've now found this bench. It's like the sort of thing you'd find in the barbican. Yes, that's exactly right. That's what I was thinking of. Have we got a little blankie? Beautiful modern wood. Ray-Way has a little blankie. I wish I had a little blankie. Ray-Way gets everything.

I'll hold Ray-Rey for a bit, shall I? There you do. Yeah, that sense of otherness you were talking about is interesting to me, Phil, because I really get that sense that, and you describe it very well, that you describe it very well, that you're kind of, that sense of not fitting in, essentially. Yes, yeah, yeah. And when I was growing up in Malaysia because of my relative whiteness, I felt foreign and that I was not fitting in and I wouldn't fit in.

I was just sort of treading water until we moved to the UK where I would be just another white guy. Then I moved to the UK and suddenly I looked very ancient and I was treated as the Asian kid and put in a study with Leong and Inui. And it was then that I realized, oh, this is, I'm never going to feel like one of the gang. So, but I get used to it. And I think stand-up was part of getting used to it.

It was just embracing my otherness and going on stage and talking about it. And it just kept going and going and going and I'm still doing it. I was never really the plan. I did it out of fascination and also to get over my feeling of alienness, but I just kept going and going. And I just, yeah, I'm still doing it. And you'd gone, when things really started for you with the stand-up, was you went to Cambridge and you did engineering there, didn't you? Yeah. That must have been a proud day in the working household.

Was Benny pleased? Yes, we were all pleased when the letter came through and I got my place. So it was very exciting. I can still remember that moment now. It was just a lot of relief. It was a lot of pressure lifted off me, I felt. All my greatest personal achievements, I've never really coincided with happiness, but relief.

You know what I mean? I think what makes you happy are small things, like a coffee and a pastry at exactly the right moment, or, you know, a suddenly free day, or a walk in the park with a dog. But those huge achievements don't actually make you happy. They make you relieved. At least they do for me.

I don't know. That sounds to me like someone who has quite high standards. I suppose. I suppose. And I think I've realised now I will never actually be, the things I pursue will never actually make me happy. They'll only make me relieved at the end. But they can, I suppose, build the structure for you to be happy.

if you're doing something fulfilling, I think it leaves a space for you to find happiness at points, but you can't really work towards happiness, I don't think. I think it just happens. You can only build the structures. You can build the net to catch it when it comes, but you can't trace it. I really hope you love part one of this week's Walking the Dog.

If you want to hear the second part of our chat, it'll be out on Thursday, so whatever you do, don't miss it. And remember to subscribe so you can join us on our walks every week.